toys Dark Desires Club

[darkdesires04]

2 hours ago, oneturepauline said:

I humbly beg you to release a version not dependent on Heel Sounds. It's been 5 hours now of trying to get Heel Sounds to work properly with my load out and for some reason it just won't recognize the esm file in TESVEdit. I don't know why nor do I want to trouble anyone else to find out. I think at this point Bethesda would have to rebuild Skyrim from the ground up to get it to work properly. But I believe that dependency is what's keeping this mod from working and that deeply saddens me. For what it's worth, the mod looks awesome. ?

 

Sorry to hear you have so much trouble with heels sound.

Here's a version with no heels sound. Just replace the plugin with this file.
 

DarkDesiresClub.esp

[PaulineTheHaggard]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:08 AM, darkdesires04 said:

 

Sorry to hear you have so much trouble with heels sound.

Here's a version with no heels sound. Just replace the plugin with this file.
 

DarkDesiresClub.esp 1012.23 kB · 4 downloads

You are a god amongst men. Thank you! It works perfectly now! I thought I was doomed forever! Thank you! ???

[killer905]

I checked it and it looks good, but in this SE I have never been able to fix animations not loading in SL Animation Loader. But I have a question here, there is probably no possibility of the LE version?

[darkdesires04]

4 hours ago, killer905 said:

I checked it and it looks good, but in this SE I have never been able to fix animations not loading in SL Animation Loader. But I have a question here, there is probably no possibility of the LE version?

Probably not. Currently I am working on another mod that should be really fun to play.

The bottom line is that I would rather create new content for SE than spend time migrating this mod to LE.
 

[VirginMarie]

46 minutes ago, darkdesires04 said:

Probably not. Currently I am working on another mod that should be really fun to play.

The bottom line is that I would rather create new content for SE than spend time migrating this mod to LE.

 

Need any help on that really fun mod??!

 

Will it be a bit like this....

 

Or more like this...?

 

As for porting to LE, I don't blame you.

If you look at the numbers, the current DL rates on LL are about 3 to 1.  3 (for SE) to 1 (for LE). Nexus is closer to 4 to 1. It was the exact opposite about 2 years ago.

[yellowaton]

i have toys working perfectly and all requirements, but the mod doesnt show up in mcm. 

[wHOaMiEH]

Hey @darkdesires04 first of all,thank you for a fantastic mod. I was wandering if you could answer a few questions:

-I got to 50 sub score and got the final challenge in tasks(specifically took to ww option). After that the task option was gone in mistress dialogue. Is that intended or did something bug out?

-Saw in tesedit that there are outside quests...do I get them after I get sub score to 100 or?

-Will you add anything to the mod related to the player being dragonborn, or is it more for LAL kind of playthroughs?

 

Once again, fantastic mod, did not have any errors with it...thank you for the effort. ❤️ 

[VirginMarie]

9 hours ago, yellowaton said:

i have toys working perfectly and all requirements, but the mod doesnt show up in mcm. 

 

To be sure that Toys is working, make sure the Toys MCM - Setup Tab - Installation Test - is a pass. You probably already did that, but just saying.

 

I can't speak specifically for DDC, but in general, SkyUI is known for this vulnerability where MCM menus don't show up. We have this guide on the topic....  Toys MCM or other mod's MCM is not showing

[darkdesires04]

11 hours ago, wHOaMiEH said:

Hey @darkdesires04 first of all,thank you for a fantastic mod. I was wandering if you could answer a few questions:

-I got to 50 sub score and got the final challenge in tasks(specifically took to ww option). After that the task option was gone in mistress dialogue. Is that intended or did something bug out?

-Saw in tesedit that there are outside quests...do I get them after I get sub score to 100 or?

-Will you add anything to the mod related to the player being dragonborn, or is it more for LAL kind of playthroughs?

 

Once again, fantastic mod, did not have any errors with it...thank you for the effort. ❤️ 

Glad you liked the mod.  Yes, if you take the final challenge then the task option is gone until you pass or fail the challenge.

Those quests you saw are something I was brainstorming, maybe for a future release that I might do...  Not used for now, at least.

I am not sure about adding dragonborn stuff...
 

[wHOaMiEH]

11 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

Glad you liked the mod.  Yes, if you take the final challenge then the task option is gone until you pass or fail the challenge.

Those quests you saw are something I was brainstorming, maybe for a future release that I might do...  Not used for now, at least.

I am not sure about adding dragonborn stuff...
 

 

For a five month development you have done A LOT(the mod is brimming with content). While more quests are always welcome, the amount of current content fills that "hole" really well(unless you planed for some kind of a questline further down the road). Eh dont mind me on the dragonborn stuff, it is always easy to ask mod authors to add such additions( its another story entirely to actually implement it(which I honestly havent even tried doing in CK on my own). In any case thanks for the reply. ? 

Edited May 6, 2022 by wHOaMiEH

[darkdesires04]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:28 PM, VirginMarie said:

 

Need any help on that really fun mod??!

 

Will it be a bit like this....

 

Or more like this...?

 

As for porting to LE, I don't blame you.

If you look at the numbers, the current DL rates on LL are about 3 to 1.  3 (for SE) to 1 (for LE). Nexus is closer to 4 to 1. It was the exact opposite about 2 years ago.

If you know someone who is willing to mod, I would like to have a bunch of female NPCs in the new mod. The females should be hot looking, look evil, and wear sexy armor. Like vampires,  dremora, or dark elves. Maybe add a few males as well. I could merge these NPCs into the mod if I had them. Doing them from scratch takes a lot of time.
 

Edited May 6, 2022 by darkdesires04

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

If you know someone who is willing to mod, I would like to have a bunch of female NPCs in the new mod. The females should be hot looking, look evil, and wear sexy armor. Like vampires,  dremora, or dark elves. Maybe add a few males as well. I could merge these NPCs into the mod if I had them. Doing them from scratch takes a lot of time.

 

The best NPCs are the exquisitely crafted ones already in a mod called Dark Desires Club. I don't know anyone who can do that or come close. I'm offering the type of help where I'd suggest approaches for putting Toys&Love to use, or the finer nuances of using the API.

[darkdesires04]

2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

The best NPCs are the exquisitely crafted ones already in a mod called Dark Desires Club. I don't know anyone who can do that or come close. I'm offering the type of help where I'd suggest approaches for putting Toys&Love to use, or the finer nuances of using the API.

Thanks for your support. Those girls in the club took so long to create, almost as long as the club itself... Maybe I could clone them  but that would look weird...

I was going to talk to you about love scenes. I can't really use them on the player, because other mods are using SexLab and not using Sexlab scenes means the other mods won't capture the sex orgasm event properly. The only thing I could use love scene for, is sex scenes not involving a player. Here's what I mean...

First, it's odd to have sex scenes play differently in the same playthrough. For example, what if my new mod used love but the user also has SexLab Eager NPCs installed. It would look weird if in the player had sex using SexLab with one voice type and and then has sex using a love scene where the sex sounds play differently.  But let's say even if the same voice was used, since other mods rely on SexLab for events, if my mod used love, it will make many other mods incompatible for the sex scene. For example, if the user had "The Sisterhood of Dibella" installed. In that case the player would not get the expected mark of Dibella. Also, for example, if the user is wearing devious devices, the sexlab event will not be caught on orgasm by that mod, so basically using love means other mods are ignored. Is this right, or is there something I am missing?

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by darkdesires04

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

Thanks for your support. Those girls in the club took so long to create, almost as long as the club itself... Maybe I could clone them  but that would look weird...

I was going to talk to you about love scenes. I can't really use them on the player, because other mods are using SexLab and not using Sexlab scenes means the other mods won't capture the sex orgasm event properly. The only thing I could use love scene for, is sex scenes not involving a player. Here's what I mean...

First, it's odd to have sex scenes play differently in the same playthrough. For example, what if my new mod used love but the user also has SexLab Eager NPCs installed. It would look weird if in the player had sex using SexLab with one voice type and and then has sex using a love scene where the sex sounds play differently.  But let's say even if the same voice was used, since other mods rely on SexLab for events, if my mod used love, it will make many other mods incompatible for the sex scene. For example, if the user had "The Sisterhood of Dibella" installed. In that case the player would not get the expected mark of Dibella. Also, for example, if the user is wearing devious devices, the sexlab event will not be caught on orgasm by that mod, so basically using love means other mods are ignored. Is this right, or is there something I am missing?

 

You have it right. There is however the opposite perspective... Let's say a user installed several mods from the Toys Family, including DDC which is using sexlab... From this perspective it would be DDC which is behaving differently, being the minority using DD/SL/SLA./SLSO. 

 

When you buy a Tesla, it can't fill up at a gas station, you go to a charger instead, but it's more than worth it. 10 year old app/accessories for Blackberry and Nokia wont plug into your new Smart Phone either.

 

The "SL stack" is a decade old now, aka Legacy Software. One of the main reasons some have stuck with LE, is because that stack has never successfully transitioned to SE... It runs, but not nearly as well as in LE. We made Toys&Love to solve this. Toys&Love can replace that entire stack. Using the electric car comparison, Toys&Love is a pure EV, not a hybrid. It's not trying to be compatible with gas stations at all.

Edited May 6, 2022 by VirginMarie

[darkdesires04]

2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

You have it right. There is however the opposite perspective... Let's say a user installed several mods from the Toys Family, including DDC which is using sexlab... From this perspective it would be DDC which is behaving differently, being the minority using DD/SL/SLA./SLSO. 

 

When you buy a Tesla, it can't fill up at a gas station, you go to a charger instead, but it's more than worth it. 10 year old app/accessories for Blackberry and Nokia wont plug into your new Smart Phone either.

 

The "SL stack" is a decade old now, aka Legacy Software. One of the main reasons some have stuck with LE, is because that stack has never successfully transitioned to SE... It runs, but not nearly as well as in LE. We made Toys&Love to solve this. Toys&Love can replace that entire stack. Using the electric car comparison, Toys&Love is a pure EV, not a hybrid. It's not trying to be compatible with gas stations at all.

Yes but this is different, because with Tesla you are not throwing away anything except maybe the convenient gas station, which is really nothing if you own a house that has a charger. Same with smartphone.

In the Toys case you would be throwing away a lot of good existing content like Sexlab Sex Slaves, PAHE, Sexlab Defeat, The Sisterhood of Dibella, Cursed Loot, and Sexlab Amorous Adventures, not just DD, SLA and SLSO. Replacing all those would take years. Maybe it's not a throw away for some of those, if they can work side by side or if they get ported to Toys. But even in that case you would be forcing the user to install both frameworks that basically compete against each other, for a very long time. Specifically I think most users are using Defeat and PAHE, and Toys doesn't have those.

So, I mean I agree with the need to improve SexLab on SE, in terms of speed. But, I would rather see it fixed and built upon, instead of a complete rewrite or port of all mods that use SexLab, unless the rewrite happened fast and the modding community agreed that SexLab/SLA/SLSO/DD/Sexlab Defeat is obsolete.
 

[bwaomega]

You don't build a Ferrari on a model T chassis. People are having trouble getting SLAL to work. A non-trivial number of people consider Devious Devices a non-starter for a requirement. At some point, you have to realize that the foundation can't support the whole structure. It gets worse when a bunch of different people are bolting on their solutions to what they see as the core program's shortcomings.

 

Building from a new base, where the various problems being addressed can be considered as a part of an integrated whole resets the incompatibilities clock. Either SexLab needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, which will break a lot of the add-ons, or a new standard has to be developed. From what I've seen, it looks like Toys & Love has a good start on that. 

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

Yes but this is different, because with Tesla you are not throwing away anything except maybe the convenient gas station, which is really nothing if you own a house that has a charger. Same with smartphone.

In the Toys case you would be throwing away a lot of good existing content like Sexlab Sex Slaves, PAHE, Sexlab Defeat, The Sisterhood of Dibella, Cursed Loot, and Sexlab Amorous Adventures, not just DD, SLA and SLSO. Replacing all those would take years. Maybe it's not a throw away for some of those, if they can work side by side or if they get ported to Toys.

 

I think its exactly like the Tesla. We are not throwing anything away. The Tesla is sharing the road with the ICE cars. You have the option to coexist, but your faster, more agile, far more integrated, and efficient.

 

The legacy mods can and are used side by side. The current survey on the Toys support thread shows 75% of Toys users, are also using DD (thus SL too). Toys&Love even integrates with SL and SLA if they are installed, plus it is DD aware and plays nice with it. We are sharing the SLAL Animation Packs too. The voices you want port easy, you already demonstrated that.

 

The question is, are your users willing to live with Sisterhood of Dibella still there, but not "seeing" the club orgasms? Are the thingies we get in in Sisterhood, a primary reason we install Sisterhood?

 

I have yet to have a single user complain that an "SL Stack" mod is not picking up the Toys&Love orgasm. You are first to bring it up. Sure someone other than you will, eventually, but it's not up high on anyone's list, and it's outweighed by the things that are high on the list. For your mod, the highest thing on the list that I've observed, from the feedback here, is that people want a SLSO fix. Toys&Love gives you that.

 

3 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

you would be forcing the user to install both frameworks that basically compete against each other, for a very long time.

 

DDC is already forcing the user to install both frameworks. And there's nothing horrible about that. It just so happens that now one of them become 3 in 1.

 

I know its not an easy decision. But in this case you would not be adding dependency, you'd be removing one... I think you are choosing between...

• Faster Scenes, other improvements, stability, and an SLSO replacement
  • You would be removing the SLSO dependency <--- features in Toys were inspired by your mod's needs in this specific case
  • Since Toys syncs with SLA, while legacy mods may not see Toys Orgasms, they DO see the arousal

              Versus

• Unrelated mods seeing orgasms

There's always the option to drop DD too, but I know that's a whole bunch of work and not going to happen in your case.

If you are making a new mod, you DO have the option to go without the SL Stack, Instead, you need only one framework.

[darkdesires04]

11 hours ago, bwaomega said:

You don't build a Ferrari on a model T chassis. People are having trouble getting SLAL to work. A non-trivial number of people consider Devious Devices a non-starter for a requirement. At some point, you have to realize that the foundation can't support the whole structure. It gets worse when a bunch of different people are bolting on their solutions to what they see as the core program's shortcomings.

 

Building from a new base, where the various problems being addressed can be considered as a part of an integrated whole resets the incompatibilities clock. Either SexLab needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, which will break a lot of the add-ons, which will break a lot of the add-ons, or a new standard has to be developed. From what I've seen, it looks like Toys & Love has a good start on that. 

I am not sure what the non-starter problem is with Devious Devices, from the user perspective, other than it takes up 4 load order slots..  All it takes is a download of four files and running a bodyslide. But regardless, if you were going to rewrite that mod, wouldn't it be better and faster just to ask Kimmy to let you port the assets and reuse Laura's Bondage Shop, instead of creating your own shop and your own assets from scratch.

 

So as far as DD, I need blindfolds and I may need suits and strait jackets. DD has them and I don't see them in Toys. But then I might need crawl feature or the voice in my head feature from Toys. So as a modder, I am stuck with building upon two frameworks, if I want all the features.

Also, from the modder's perspective, there is another group of people that think oSex is the superior framework, and there is also flower girls. So now we have 4 frameworks. Instead of the 4 frameworks, what we really need is one framework and assets for modders, like armor, NPCs, eyes, hair, furniture, and so on. Having those assets and making it all free, available and easy to install.
 

 

Quote

Either SexLab needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, which will break a lot of the add-ons

 

It won't break anything if it uses the same exact API, same events, and has the same controller state that existing mods rely on.

The new standard could keep the compatibility and have a new engine. There is no need for a new API and new events, only a new engine.


 

[Talesien]

Honestly I'm not sure Kimy is even in a position to grant the right to port all items. I think a number of those are from other modders (or maybe I'm thinking of ZaZ animations packs) and I'm not sure how well disposed Kimy is towards Toys in general and VirginMary in particular. It's not like Virgin Mary didn't make it clear that she considers DD ... well somewhat messy at the very least.

I agree though, I miss those hobble dresses and straight jackets and especially the boxbinders.
Blindfolds are definitely included in Toys though.

One big plus of Toys is that except for the main frame work almost everything is ESL flagged, while even small Sexlab mods tend not to be, often because they are ported from LE either by the author or a third party. Given that, it's really no surprise that a substantial number of Sexlab mods are also not very well optimized.

 

2 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

It won't break anything if it uses the same exact API, same events, and has the same controller state that existing mods rely on.

While correct, but without knowing how the API looks/works on the inside, it might very well be that keeping the API hobbles you quite a bit in creating a new engine.
Technically VirginMary is probably in a better poistion for creating a new Sexlab the the Sexlab authors. She already has the new engine, all that's now needed is a translation layer to bind a Sexlab compatible API to her engine. Wonder how keen she is on creating such a thing ... though it might have real promise to try.

[VirginMarie]

5 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

if you were going to rewrite that mod, wouldn't it be better and faster just to ask Kimmy to let you port the assets and reuse Laura's Bondage Shop, instead of creating your own shop and your own assets from scratch.

 

For the shop, sure, for the framework, most certainly not. It's like how it was expressed above.... can't build a Ferrari on a model T chassis.

 

You are starting with a liability, not an asset. I likened it to Tesla rather than Ferrari to indicate that its using a new age of tech that mods did not have access to back then. Ferrari is still very similar to the Model T since its an ICE engine. We want to switch to the electric motor instead.

 

5 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

I need blindfolds and I may need suits and strait jackets. 

• Toys makes it easy to take those mesh and texture assets and make your own Toy Box. There's a guide. Toy Box Authoring
• You can use the blindfold from Classic, if its the "goggles" ones you don't like, or you can clone it into your own mod if you don't want to require Classic Toy Box to be installed
• For the Strait Jackets, the author has not been active to get permission. You could still try, I've not recently. I can give you the author name (its not Kimy). But if we don't have permission, we don't have it. Is it a reason enough to tie ourselves to legacy software?
• There is this... Devious Toys Generator. Might be a way to get your jackets

5 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

Also, from the modder's perspective, there is another group of people that think oSex is the superior framework, and there is also flower girls. 

 

I did research those. I was looking for something that can be used by SLaVE. SlaVE's Love Shout in combat cannot use OSex, OStim, or Flowergirls.

• Flowergirls is not a framework, does not claim to be one, and is not one. Non-starter there
• OSex is not a framework in the sense of Sexlab either, so OSTim came along and has tried to make it more like sexlab, but its hard to call scenes from it. There's also a problem to trust its future since the OSex and OStIm authors have had drama and wont work together, and are both taking unknown paths

So it was time to make Love Scenes in in Toys Framework. The advantages of integrating bondage with Love Scenes was too hard for me to ignore, and I had been making custom animation scenes in SLaVE for 4 years so had lots of practice. 

 

Love Scenes in Toys have a long way to go too. We just got started. You have only seen the first version.

The next release is on its way... Change Log is here... What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

We might release a beta to test in Discord. I could get you one next day if you wanted access.

 

5 hours ago, darkdesires04 said:

There is no need for a new API and new events, only a new engine.

 

Copying the API is massive liability. I'd have never got it done. Literally not a possibility imo. Its that Electric Motor and new chassis thing.... you don't use those, and then expect to have the same pattern.

Edited May 7, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

One big plus of Toys is that except for the main frame work almost everything is ESL flagged

 

Actually even the framework is ESL flagged. Might be the first esm to also be esl.

 

I think I've covered my thoughts on other things you said in the replies above.

[Talesien]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Actually even the framework is ESL flagged. Might be the first esm to also be esl.

 

I think I've covered my thoughts on other things you said in the replies above.

Isn't that the same as making it an .esl file? IIRC (and quick checking the Wrye Bash documentary) all .esl are automatically considered esm and esl flagged.

[VirginMarie]

35 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Isn't that the same as making it an .esl file? IIRC (and quick checking the Wrye Bash documentary) all .esl are automatically considered esm and esl flagged.

 No. I think that would break.

 

Toys.ESM is...

• Flagged ESL - it loads into the reserved space for light mods
• Flagged ESM - its a master
• named .esm - I dunno. You can flag an ESP as master too so ESM seems to just cause CK to lock  you out of edit

For some reason we flag mods ESL, but never name them .esl. I think that extension name is for Creation Club? I dunno. Maybe @gregaazknows

 

 

The symbols in the pic... star is Master / solid feather is Light / not-solid feather is "safe to flag as light" / Square symbol is "contains a bsa". Nothing from CC to compare, I don't do CC but I think they don't show up in Vortex.

Edited May 7, 2022 by VirginMarie

[Talesien]

Well changing the toys.esm into toys.esl would pretty certainly make it require a new game, but I'm pretty certain .esl are light-master files. So if you were to give a file the esp esl ending Skyrim will treat it as a light and a master file, no matter if those flags are actually set in the header. CreationClub content is special as Skyrim considers it kinda like a DLC and CC files comes in a fixed load order just after the 5 'Base' files. Given that Vortex should show them, but can't really 'touch' CC content.

This seems to be a good overview, but of course it's a bit older and I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it vibes with what the Wryebash documentation says and that one I trust.
https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5079-plugin-files-and-you-esmeslesp/

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

Well changing the toys.esm into toys.esl would pretty certainly make it require a new game, but I'm pretty certain .esl are light-master files. So if you were to give a file the esp esl ending Skyrim will treat it as a light and a master file, no matter if those flags are actually set in the header. CreationClub content is special as Skyrim considers it kinda like a DLC and CC files comes in a fixed load order just after the 5 'Base' files. Given that Vortex should show them, but can't really 'touch' CC content.

This seems to be a good overview, but of course it's a bit older and I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it vibes with what the Wryebash documentation says and that one I trust.
https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5079-plugin-files-and-you-esmeslesp/

 

According to that documentation, I could achieve the same thing I have now by just using the .esl extension, like you are saying.

 

However since I'm achieving the same thing using the current method, I will stick with that, since it works, does not cause people to start a new game, and is also recognized and understood. Its currently, and most definitely, being treated as light, properly. People would be confused, even flip out, if they saw Toys.esl. On top of that, there was a reason we did this, just can't remember what it was or if its potentially just a myth.

 

 Edit.. and there's the answer below now. Thanks @gregaaz 

Edited May 8, 2022 by VirginMarie