Furry Fallout 4

[poblivion]

13 hours ago, whitey1105 said:

I'm running FG however I am still running into the weird CBBE knee problem. Even rebuilt the bodies using BS but I'm lost as to how to get your results

 

Furry Fallout 4 is currently running on a CBBE body, FG body is not available yet. What you see in my picture is my attempt to make an FG body with paws.

I have little experience with that, but maybe ....

[Bad Dog]

This guy's the reason development has maybe slowed down a little bit:

 

 

But the mod's better if I actually play the game, so it's all good.

 

[whitey1105]

3 hours ago, poblivion said:

 

Furry Fallout 4 is currently running on a CBBE body, FG body is not available yet. What you see in my picture is my attempt to make an FG body with paws.

I have little experience with that, but maybe ....

Ah I figured it wasn't supported, as I knew Bad Dog hadn't confirmed any kind of support for it so I was admittedly confused lol.

[whitey1105]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:55 PM, BafMeow said:

Also with the latest version, NPC's in Diamond City broke again with Skin mismatching and Cathy lost her head again. This was not the issue in version 0.8 .... But now resurfaced in 0.9

 

Example of NPC's . I have not encountered any other NPCs with this problem other than these guys

Piper seems to have some wonky hands as well. Not sure if it's related to this problem above or the fingerless gloves (have never worn or seen any in-game besides this instance, so I'm not sure if fingerless gloves usually work with FFO).

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, whitey1105 said:

Piper seems to have some wonky hands as well.

That's an issue with the Fusion Girl vanilla outfit replacers (IIRC, though CBBE ones may have the issue too) having bugged bone weights in the gloves/sleeves for Piper's outfit, it's unrelated to FFO.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Blaze69

[Bad Dog]

Icestorm's texture tools don't honor FO4's stupid rules for head textures, so they got borked. My fault, of course, for just running them on everything indiscriminately. Also too maybe it's not valid to run them on facegen output. Fixed in next rev. I'm guessing the invisible head is related since I know texture problems can cause the whole mesh to disappear.

 

I'm doing horns now. I'm not sure how I'm going to furrify the deer NPCs. Moose are moose and need moose patterns and horns. Reindeer are reindeer ditto. Goats aren't even deer. Giraffes are just weird. Moose antlers don't really fit indoors. Plus there's only 100 or so deer NPCs in all, so once you've split out all the species there will be like 5 of each.

 

I might make one giraffe, maybe Glory, but I won't just mix them in with everything else.

 

I'm playing with this idea: Instead of assigning races semi-randomly, maybe I should use the body weight. Skinny = cheetah, whitetail. Short = fox, dikdik. Muscular = horse, tiger, lion, moose. Fat = ? maybe fox, horse, moose. Tall = moose,  So assign each species to each corner of the triangle, then calc probability of the race based on where the NPC falls. That way there'd be no fat cheetahs or muscular whitetails. 

 

What do y'all think? I don't love changing all the races, but it would be a one-time thing. I'd have to go through and see if the scheme results in a reasonable race distribution, both in terms of numbers and also, let's not have all the tweakers be cheetahs and all the raider bosses be moose. (Tho you could argue that in a violent world the larger beasts would tend to be in charge of gangs.)

 

Another possibility would be to change the weight to match the species, but weight often reflects the history of the character (all those skinny tweakers) so that's not so good.

[Blaze69]

5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Icestorm's texture tools don't honor FO4's stupid rules for head textures, so they got borked. My fault, of course, for just running them on everything indiscriminately. Also too maybe it's not valid to run them on facegen output.

Assuming you grab the latest version (which I assume is available on Ice's own page now that he nuked his Nexus account), it can work on FaceGen, but you have to 1) enable the "extra suffixes" and "treat unknown textures as diffuses" options and 2) change diffuses from BC7 to BC3. Incidentally this means FaceGen runs should be separate from other stuff or else you'll mess up non-face diffuses and make them ugly and artefacted.

 

I've been doing it this way myself for a while now and I've had no issues so far.

 

5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm doing horns now. I'm not sure how I'm going to furrify the deer NPCs. Moose are moose and need moose patterns and horns. Reindeer are reindeer ditto. Goats aren't even deer. Giraffes are just weird. Moose antlers don't really fit indoors. Plus there's only 100 or so deer NPCs in all, so once you've split out all the species there will be like 5 of each.

 

I might make one giraffe, maybe Glory, but I won't just mix them in with everything else.

The way I see it, most cervids in post-apocalyptic Boston in the Furry Fallout world would be whitetails aka "normal" deers, followed by goats, then a handful moose and reindeers, with the other "exotic" species being uncommon but not impossible to find. That being said, other than manually assigning a subspecies for each NPC and running the numbers for the distribution, I don't think an automatic assignment can work well there.

 

So I guess my suggestion would be making it random but excluding "exotic" species like giraffes or dikdiks from the script (or having them with very low chances) and then manually changing one or a few named NPCs that fit out of all the ones that were assigned "Deer" as race. With the usual manual cleanup/assignment afterwards if appropriate (e.g. if Old Longfellow had gotten "Deer" on the species bingo, he should probably be a moose or reindeer, methinks. Stuff like that).

 

5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm playing with this idea: Instead of assigning races semi-randomly, maybe I should use the body weight. Skinny = cheetah, whitetail. Short = fox, dikdik. Muscular = horse, tiger, lion, moose. Fat = ? maybe fox, horse, moose. Tall = moose,  So assign each species to each corner of the triangle, then calc probability of the race based on where the NPC falls. That way there'd be no fat cheetahs or muscular whitetails. 

 

What do y'all think? I don't love changing all the races, but it would be a one-time thing. I'd have to go through and see if the scheme results in a reasonable race distribution, both in terms of numbers and also, let's not have all the tweakers be cheetahs and all the raider bosses be moose. (Tho you could argue that in a violent world the larger beasts would tend to be in charge of gangs.)

 

Another possibility would be to change the weight to match the species, but weight often reflects the history of the character (all those skinny tweakers) so that's not so good.

No more obese cheetahs sounds good, but eh, not a huge fan of the per-body-shape species assignment. I honestly think adjusting the body shape depending on race and leaving the current race selection system as-is would be better.

 

There's one tweak to the code I can think of to avoid that last issue you mention, but I dunno if it's possible to implement or it'd require a team of NASA nerds and a supercomputer to crack, lol.

 

Basically, you use the NPC's original body shape as a base, but apply certain tweaks or limits depending on the assigned race (and subspecies). Like, cheetahs can get some muscle or fat, but never 100%, so if a 100% Fat character is turned into a cheetah, he's made 75% Fat + 25% Skinny (or whatever max % for Fat/Muscle we decide to set).

 

That way, if you have a skinny tweaker and a fat bastard both be assigned cheetah, the latter will still be fatter than the former (even if it's just a bit), but not to the point where it just looks weird as hell.

 

Possibly do the same for the predator and/or large animals so they cannot be 100% skinny or whatever.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Blaze69

[Bad Dog]

Mucking with the body shape values shouldn't be hard. IIRC they're just 3 floating point values stored in the NPC record. Should be easy to skew them in the right direction based on the NPC's race.

[Muyoko83]

um not to be a negative nancy but lets say i wanted to remove the mod from a different save file but it stills gives me the modded character how can i revert it to a human? cause i think i might have done an oopsy

[Blaze69]

4 hours ago, Muyoko83 said:

um not to be a negative nancy but lets say i wanted to remove the mod from a different save file but it stills gives me the modded character how can i revert it to a human? cause i think i might have done an oopsy

You don't uninstall mods like these mid-game, you have to throw away the save and start a new game with it removed.

[Bad Dog]

Okay, remind me of the rules for skin textures.

 

My problem is that the horn base, which is fur and is implemented as an extra part, is picking up the body texture not its own texture. The horn is a "beard" head part and references the horn base as an extra part. The horn base has an appropriate texture set but the nif points to a materials file that references the same textures. The shader in the nif is marked as a skin tint and the skin tint flag is set in the materials file. But I don't get the horn base texture, I can see that it's showing the body texture.

 

I know there's some mechanism so that exposed skin in clothes and armor picks up the right body texture and I think I must be triggering that somehow, but I'm not sure how. I have to mark it as a skin tint so it picks up the right color. 

 

Edit: And just to make it annoying, everything shows up fine in CK. It's just in game that it's wrong. 

 

Edit again: Fuck. There's a freaking switch for it in the head part record. Whatever I copied to make the first one must have had that set.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Bad Dog

[Siigonis]

Are there any plans to add reptiles?

 

[Bad Dog]

No. They'd have to be created from scratch--can't use argonian assets. There is a deathclaw race for the scalies.

 

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Okay, remind me of the rules for skin textures.

 

My problem is that the horn base, which is fur and is implemented as an extra part, is picking up the body texture not its own texture. The horn is a "beard" head part and references the horn base as an extra part. The horn base has an appropriate texture set but the nif points to a materials file that references the same textures. The shader in the nif is marked as a skin tint and the skin tint flag is set in the materials file. But I don't get the horn base texture, I can see that it's showing the body texture.

 

I know there's some mechanism so that exposed skin in clothes and armor picks up the right body texture and I think I must be triggering that somehow, but I'm not sure how. I have to mark it as a skin tint so it picks up the right color. 

 

Edit: And just to make it annoying, everything shows up fine in CK. It's just in game that it's wrong. 

 

Edit again: Fuck. There's a freaking switch for it in the head part record. Whatever I copied to make the first one must have had that set.

 

Yes, there's a flag in the Headparts to set it up to use Body textures. The headrears for Male & Female use that (Non Vanilla Female ofc Breaks that tho, so) 

[Bad Dog]

Okay, status update: Deer are done. I made a preset for each horn type, so you just choose the preset and tailor from there. That way the beard works as a beard without problems. I think there might be a way to tie a head part to any morph region by copying the way beards are associated with chins, but I didn't explore it.

 

I have a set of male and female hair ready to go, about 10 of each. With my exporter it's actually pretty quick and I think I'm just gonna do them all eventually. I'm doing horse manes now. Then I think I'll put together a release candidate, since I always seem to mess something up. While people are checking that out I'll do a little bit of minor cleanup--tiger colors, horse hoof and dick colors (should be black, I think) Shaun in his various guises, a few other things. Additional hair if anyone makes requests. That will be V1. 

 

Then I'll take a break to update the exporter and make a bugfix pass through the skyrim mods. Along the way I'll have a chance to make sure the exporter is doing right for skyrim nifs. 

 

Then I'll come back and do whatever seems good: Otters, mutants, maybe FG body, synths, some of the post-apocalyptic-appropriate Apachii and KS hair.

 

[whitey1105]

FG body would definitely be appreciated! Hella excited for V1!

[shinkun]

Hello, first off thanks for all the hard work you put into your mods Bad Dog. You're by far my favorite creator on this website.

 

I am just wondering if this tail physics behavior is normal. I find it pretty distracting while playing in third person and moving around.

 

https://streamable.com/c6ck1n

Edited July 31, 2021 by shinkun

[Bad Dog]

Not sure what you're looking at. If you don't like how the tail is moving, yeah, it's normal. The tail is hooked to coat bones which seem to be pretty borked all by themselves so what you got is what you got.

 

[Bad Dog]

Still proceeding according to the above plan but I got hung up a bit on the children.

 

Since I now have face morphs for all the races, it wasn't hard to work up a child's head for each race, male and female variants. I figured I could just jam them on the children the way the current heads are jammed on the children. BUT turns out moving the facebones is race-specific because of the way the bones are referenced in the NPC and race records--they have to match. AND the child race doesn't have any facebones morphs at all. So all my nice heads don't get morphed when they're put on an actor of the child race.

 

So now I'm not sure what's best. Options are:

1. Add morphs to the child race that will cover the superset of everything I want to do. In the end that comes down to eyes, ears, and noses mostly. I'd have to redesign the heads to fit the child race but it might work. I might not be able to make the bodies race-appropriate, but since they're mostly covered up that might be okay. I'd have to do equipable tails so they can have tails that go with their race.
2. Change the children to the race of their species. But then I have to assign them bodies in the NPC record, and I don't know what happens with clothing. Mostly I think the child clothes are entirely separate from the adult clothing so that might be okay. There doesn't seem to be any way to keep AAF from treating them as adult if I do that, tho.
3. Make a whole set of child races. That's cleanest and less work than it might seem, since it's mostly just copying from the other race records. Still, it feels like overkill for a dozen NPCs. And AAF still wouldn't know they're children--but then, AAF animations might not work at all, which would be fine.
4. Make special head nifs for each of the races and stick them on the child bodes. That's pretty much like #1 and has the disadvantages of #1, but I wouldn't have to muck with the child race itself. It would be a bit of a hassle but totally doable.

Gonna let that stew for a bit while I teach the furrifier about all the different deer.

[Bad Dog]

Sometimes the furrifier gets it exactly right.

 

[Blaze69]

7 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

So now I'm not sure what's best.

I think I'd go with #1 or maybe #4 as a fallback if adding the FaceBones data to the child race proves too difficult.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Blaze69

[Bad Dog]

Is there something I should understand about hair bones? Anything weighted to the Hair_x_Cloth## bones or the Ponytail_x_Cloth## bones doesnt work--those verts stretch to infinity.

I can't tell how these bones are rigged--they aren't part of the regular skeleton and they aren't in the head nif. I think there's a connection I'm missing but I don't know what it is.

[Blaze69]

6 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Is there something I should understand about hair bones?

I've tinkered with those in Outfit Studio before and even rigged one or two custom ported hairs to those to get working physics, and I've never really had any issues.

 

I don't know for sure but my guess would be they work like HDT bones do in Skyrim: they are only included in the nif they're used in (not in any skeleton) and they need a physics data file to tell the game how they're actually supposed to behave.

 

In the case of FO4, that would be the BSClothExtraData entry inside the nif. I know Outfit Studio can manage those just fine, but if PyNifly cannot and the exported nifs end up missing that data block, that might explain it (no physics data means the game doesn't know the bone hyerarchy or the way those bones should behave so they just stretch to infinity).

 

It's all Havok stuff so I'm pretty sure only 3DS Max can directly edit those (if they can even be edited, maybe it requires that Havok devkit Microsoft really doesn't want us to have), but at least you might be able to keep the data as-is and add it back to the nif on export so you can at least edit existing physics'd hairs without them breaking (or maybe even rig new ones by copying bones and BSClothExtraData from existing hairs).

 

Plan B is simply doing all your tweaks inside OS itself and making sure to enable physics data export when saving, but I assume that would throw a wrench in your plans since Blender is better there.

 

 

Also a side note, if you do figure out hiw to get this done, please do look into adding physics to as many (new) hairs as possible. Horse manes sound like the perfect candidates in particular, and even if there isn't any vanilla hair with matching(ish) shape to copy physics from, there's always Ponytail Hairstyles, Commonwealth Cuts, KS Hairdos Addon With Physics and femshepping's KS Hairdos Conversions.

[Bad Dog]

+1 that's got it.

 

I have putting the physics on the other hair on the to-do list.

 

[Bad Dog]

New version up! Last test version before V1. I'll do some cleanup and then post V1. 

 

I've adjusted the furrifier so post pics of any especially peculiar-looking NPCs and I'll tweak some more.