Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls

[TrollAutokill]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I love the idea of slaves remembering more than one reason; it's currently often annoying when a reason you wanted to act on gets overridden before you get to it.  I'd always assumed it was a performance limitation, but if you've found a way to do it without impacting performance, then it'd be an extremely positive change.  

 

That said, I would say four sounds like a lot.  @Jasmine92 pretty much hit the nail on the head.  My suggestion would be to start with just two and see how that feels, and then increase it from there later if necessary.  I'm pretty sure two would be sufficient to eliminate 95%+ of the current cases of irritation without feeling overwhelming. 

 

I'd expect that, with four reasons stacking up, if you've got several slaves with you, there's a good chance they'll just pile up four reasons while you're not paying attention, and you won't have any idea what caused the reasons at the bottom of the "stack".  Then, the next time you want to interact with one of them, you'll have to "clear the stack", which doesn't seem like good gameplay.

I tried 2 and it just doesn't feel very different from 1.

 

It works with stationary slaves, as they usually just build up 2 or 3 reasons. The 4th is seldom used, except when you focus on just one slave. Praising is different, but I have a feeling you'll appreciate the opportunity to praise your slaves 4 times in a row! Not that it happen very often to my slaves...

 

Also some reasons are based on the slave state and are not actually registered in the stack (angry mood, crying, posture correction, ...).

 

There is also a new dialogue allowing you to act on one of the reason in the stack specifically, with an option in the MCM to choose between pain punishment or scold.

 

Triggering a punishment as usual (not the stack dialogue) will pick up the most important reason, that is firstly running away, secondly the latest important reason and lastly the latest small reason (crying, cowering, ...).

 

The dialogue is there to let the player decide of a different order, plus you can always punish for not respectful and crying in their special dialogues "I thought I told you to call me master" and "what's wrong with you?".

Edited August 10, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

it just doesn't feel very different from 1.

I'd consider that a virtue.  The status quo is honestly fine here.  Not perfect, certainly, but fine.  I'd contend that it'd be better to subtly tweak that status quo rather than to radically change it.  It doesn't need to feel "very different".

 

What this feature stands to significantly improve is the situation where you're in the process of reacting to something a slave did—such as stopping posing—when she does something else—such as stopping waiting—to generate a reason to override it before you've finished reacting.  Or you're going to reprimand two slaves, and the second one gets angry about you scolding the first, overriding the original reason you had for reprimanding the second slave.  Storing one additional reason would be plenty to solve virtually all of these issues without radically changing anything.  Radical change isn't needed here.

 

With four reasons accumulating, you'll potentially end up with quite old reasons in the stack, and that will have weird gameplay consequences.  For one, it'll encourage "lazy" training—i.e., waiting until several reasons stack up, then clearing them all at once—which might sound like a nice convenience, but I'd bet my shorts it ends up being a less fun way to play. 

 

It'll also make for some really weird situations from a roleplaying perspective, where you're trying to explain to the slave why she's in trouble for some minor infraction she committed yesterday—as if either of you'd remember.  After all, in roleplaying terms, this system implies that the player character remembers all those reasons in the stack; that's going to very quickly become a real stretch.  I routinely work with groups of 4–8 slaves, for example, which would mean Antiope is able to mentally track 32–64 reasons (keep in mind the stack size is effectively double since there's both praise and punish stacking independently)—on top of everything else she's doing.  That's not very believable.  And it's certainly a radical change to a system that doesn't really need it.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I'd consider that a virtue.  The status quo is honestly fine here.  Not perfect, certainly, but fine.  I'd contend that it'd be better to subtly tweak that status quo rather than to radically change it.  It doesn't need to feel "very different".

 

What this feature stands to significantly improve is the situation where you're in the process of reacting to something a slave did—such as stopping posing—when she does something else—such as stopping waiting—to generate a reason to override it before you've finished reacting.  Or you're going to reprimand two slaves, and the second one gets angry about you scolding the first, overriding the original reason you had for reprimanding the second slave.  Storing one additional reason would be plenty to solve virtually all of these issues without radically changing anything.  Radical change isn't needed here.

 

With four reasons accumulating, you'll potentially end up with quite old reasons in the stack, and that will have weird gameplay consequences.  For one, it'll encourage "lazy" training—i.e., waiting until several reasons stack up, then clearing them all at once—which might sound like a nice convenience, but I'd bet my shorts it ends up being a less fun way to play. 

 

It'll also make for some really weird situations from a roleplaying perspective, where you're trying to explain to the slave why she's in trouble for some minor infraction she committed yesterday—as if either of you'd remember.  After all, in roleplaying terms, this system implies that the player character remembers all those reasons in the stack; that's going to very quickly become a real stretch.  I routinely work with groups of 4–8 slaves, for example, which would mean Antiope is able to mentally track 32–64 reasons (keep in mind the stack size is effectively double since there's both praise and punish stacking independently)—on top of everything else she's doing.  That's not very believable.  And it's certainly a radical change to a system that doesn't really need it.

Consider: A DOM trainer's notebook. An item that would record all the reasons different slaves have for being punished or praised but is only updated out of combat. From a gameplay perspective it'd be a convenient way to have the information all in one place and from a lore perspective it explains why the player can remember this stuff (Mechanically the notebook would be a reskinned reusable scroll that triggers the display of the menu)

[TrollAutokill]

34 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Consider: A DOM trainer's notebook

Exactly, after all that's why it was called a diary to begin with. 

 

I could not do the book, so I used message boxes. But a book with one page per slave was the original idea. Something with a long history and more detailed than the PAHE MCM list.

Edited August 10, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[Farsh-nuke]

2 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Exactly, after all that's why it was called a diary to begin with. 

 

I could not do the book, so I used message boxes. But a book with one page per slave was the original idea. Something with a long history and more detailed than the PAHE MCM list.

This mod might help as a source of insight if you decide to revisit the idea https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/13570

I have now finished about half the document of dialogue/slave barks for you to pick from for the mod. As expected the ones I am writing where the prompt is just "Praise" are going much faster. If anyone ever gives you shit for writing more dialogue or slave barks I will be first in line to defend you. Writing out the alternative slave barks for "I understand not everything is your fault, Master/Mistress" Felt like Jack Torrence in the Shining writing out "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" Still the Praise, crude and innocent lines will be fun to do.
 

[TrollAutokill]

This is a development version, SE only (until someone back ports it).

Try it only if you are ready to help debugging.

 

WARNING: This version includes major changes. Clean save is recommended, but you can also try to put your slaves in HSH before upgrading or reboot PAHE after upgrading.

 

- House cleaning slaves package changed to sandbox. The cleaner package from PAHE was actually a dummy.
- Added various slave dialogue for check value, strip, body inspection, start punishment, end punishment.

- Added various slave dialogue from @Farsh-nuke
- Slaves now remember more than one punishment/praise reason. That's 4 maximum, and no, we can't change it, Papyrus doesn't like dynamic arrays.

- Two new dialogue lines allow to choose from up to 4 punishment/praise reasons. There is a toggle in MCM for default to physical punishment or telling-off. Punishment dialogue is under "Come here slave", praise dialogue is under "Listen to me slave".

- Two new dialogue in "What's wrong with you", to punish or rape for crying in addition to the comforting or insulting options.
- Burlap sack doesn't equip if slot is used by another piece of armor, a backpack for example.
- Wearing humiliating clothes message should now happen less often.
- Arousal is now built up from the player and slave actions. A slave now needs to build up arousal before getting aroused, only aroused slaves can get an orgasm, orgasms can happen during sex or masturbating. It might need some tuning... A quick way to build up arousal is to chain strip, body inspection and order to masturbate.

 

Download is smaller because only the quest voice lines are included, instead of all lines for Vex voice.

Edited August 10, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[BloodDollMaria]

I am starting the test with AE, but it will take me a while to report back as I am starting with New Game...

[bnub345]

Some notes from my test on SE:

 

• The praise/scold system seems to be broken now. Any time the hotkeys are used it counts as "unknown reason 32", and doesn't count for any of the listed punishment/praise reasons. The only thing that registers is using physical punishment as the default and then the "Come here, slave" dialogue branch. Although this seems to go down the list in order rather than for the selected dialogue. The praise stuff from "Listen to me, slave" seems to work as expected.
• The virginity messages and praise reason for giving virginity are both gone now.
• I have yet to get a slave to the aroused state, even after multiple body inspections and masturbations. This was with a sensuality of around the base 50. The slave was fresh meat, maybe training is supposed to be a factor? 
• New dialogue seems to be present and working.

[BloodDollMaria]

1 hour ago, bnub345 said:

Some notes from my test on SE:

 

• The praise/scold system seems to be broken now. Any time the hotkeys are used it counts as "unknown reason 32", and doesn't count for any of the listed punishment/praise reasons. The only thing that registers is using physical punishment as the default and then the "Come here, slave" dialogue branch. Although this seems to go down the list in order rather than for the selected dialogue. The praise stuff from "Listen to me, slave" seems to work as expected.
• The virginity messages and praise reason for giving virginity are both gone now.
• I have yet to get a slave to the aroused state, even after multiple body inspections and masturbations. This was with a sensuality of around the base 50. The slave was fresh meat, maybe training is supposed to be a factor? 
• New dialogue seems to be present and working.

We have almost the same problem in AE

In my case, I can't scold with a hotkey even if there is a reason for the punishment.

[TrollAutokill]

12 hours ago, bnub345 said:

Some notes from my test on SE:

 

• The praise/scold system seems to be broken now. Any time the hotkeys are used it counts as "unknown reason 32", and doesn't count for any of the listed punishment/praise reasons. The only thing that registers is using physical punishment as the default and then the "Come here, slave" dialogue branch. Although this seems to go down the list in order rather than for the selected dialogue. The praise stuff from "Listen to me, slave" seems to work as expected.
• The virginity messages and praise reason for giving virginity are both gone now.
• I have yet to get a slave to the aroused state, even after multiple body inspections and masturbations. This was with a sensuality of around the base 50. The slave was fresh meat, maybe training is supposed to be a factor? 
• New dialogue seems to be present and working.

 

Some corrections in 3.0.1.

 

- Corrected the praise/scold hotkey problem.

- Arousal system was further tuned. It still needs more tuning.

- I did get the virginity message and corresponding praise though. I am not sure why you didn't.

- I am not sure I understand what's your problem with the "Come here slave" dialogue.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[bnub345]

7 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

- I am not sure I understand what's your problem with the "Come here slave" dialogue.

 

Let's say a slave has punishment options for crying, didn't listen, and anger, in that order. If I go through the dialogue, and choose to punish for didn't listen or anger, it always punishes for crying instead, because it's at the top of the list. Going to check out 3.0.1 now. 

[TrollAutokill]

5 hours ago, bnub345 said:

 

Let's say a slave has punishment options for crying, didn't listen, and anger, in that order. If I go through the dialogue, and choose to punish for didn't listen or anger, it always punishes for crying instead, because it's at the top of the list. Going to check out 3.0.1 now. 

Are you using scold as default punishment? If so, then it should be corrected now.

[AnonymousUser007]

Whenever I select the "You will call me mistress from now on" option nothing happens. Dialogue ends and it doesn't give me a message saying "Soandso doesn't want to listen to you" or any of the voice lines that the male version does. The only way I've been able to get the correct responses from my slaves is using the "From now on you will address me as a slave should" option.

[sickboy791]

what could change traits that are not evolving ?

[sickboy791]

it´s just an idea , maybe i´m wrong, i don´t know exactly what potions can do...if it´s possible it would be cool if the personalitytraits evolve, i mean all of them, depending on how you treat a slave and what you do with them, something like this

[Farsh-nuke]

10 minutes ago, sickboy791 said:

it´s just an idea , maybe i´m wrong, i don´t know exactly what potions can do...if it´s possible it would be cool if the personalitytraits evolve, i mean all of them, depending on how you treat a slave and what you do with them

 

This is already one of the more complex mods for slavery in skyrim but if TAK is up to it a levelling system for slaves where they get better perks as they are trained would be cool. Though a system like that would need more dialogue and slave barks and I'm not ready for that never mind TAK lol (and I should have the next batch of lines ready to send off by tomorrow at least) 

[TrollAutokill]

15 minutes ago, sickboy791 said:

it´s just an idea , maybe i´m wrong, i don´t know exactly what potions can do...if it´s possible it would be cool if the personalitytraits evolve, i mean all of them, depending on how you treat a slave and what you do with them, something like this

Personality traits evolve only during shocks and orgasms (almost). For the moment the traits change is random. But I write your idea down for later.

Edited August 11, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[sickboy791]

no need to rush?, i was just thinking, because the dominant - submissive trait evolves just on way, so if you want to find a good trainer that has to be dominant, smart and such and you train em´they become inevitably submissive, or not,? not that i have found one yet...

 

all good, just an idea...i have to park my slaves in hsh now and see what 3.0.1 changes, that might take a while

[Farsh-nuke]

14 minutes ago, sickboy791 said:

no need to rush?, i was just thinking, because the dominant - submissive trait evolves just on way, so if you want to find a good trainer that has to be dominant, smart and such and you train em´they become inevitably submissive, or not,? not that i have found one yet...

 

all good, just an idea...i have to park my slaves in hsh now and see what 3.0.1 changes, that might take a while

Oh I agree that it would be nice to make it so certain traits don't change. 

[Storm37]

I have a suggestion for making slaves more useful.

When their loyalty is high enough you can assign them to do tasks depending on their class.

For example, Conjurers can make soul gems over time, Priests make healing and curing potions, Sorcerers make scrolls and Wizards make staves that you can sell or use. Also all of them can make scrolls of corresponding magic schools. Same logic can be applied to some other classes: Blacksmiths make weapons and armor, Enchanters make enchanted weapons , etc. The output item quality can be random or based on their level or configurable. No need to do heavy stuff, just make them "generate" items in the backgroud similar to vanilla game spouse store income.

[Farsh-nuke]

22 minutes ago, Storm37 said:

I have a suggestion for making slaves more useful.

When their loyalty is high enough you can assign them to do tasks depending on their class.

For example, Conjurers can make soul gems over time, Priests make healing and curing potions, Sorcerers make scrolls and Wizards make staves that you can sell or use. Also all of them can make scrolls of corresponding magic schools. Same logic can be applied to some other classes: Blacksmiths make weapons and armor, Enchanters make enchanted weapons , etc. The output item quality can be random or based on their level or configurable. No need to do heavy stuff, just make them "generate" items in the backgroud similar to vanilla game spouse store income.

Ooh I just had an idea. What if those radiant quests could eventually be done by highly trained and loyal slave adventuring parties. Then there'd be a reason to level combat beyond the gamer urge to level everything. It'd be abstracted so that once you assign a slave their stats influence a dice roll on whether they succeed or not? Whether they come back injured or are tragically killed. If they do get killed ideally you'd be able to find their body and resurrect them at the cost of them having lost all their training. I'm not sure if that's even possible nevermind within the scope of the mod though.

Oh and the second bath of Slave lines from me is with TAK now. Jasmine and TAK I am sorry but I hope my efforts help the mod.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Since we're moving on to new versions now, I've gone ahead and added my remaining notes for 2.12.2 to the big Wall-o'-Text™ we've been compiling.  I've also organised it better and revised some earlier notes.  Unless 3.0 has a lot of changes that aren't in the changelog, it looks like virtually all of this is still relevant.

 

Need some clarification on the current use of jewellery keywords.  It seems likely that this could use some tweaking.

Spoiler

On 6/16/2022 at 2:54 AM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

On 3/25/2021 at 7:24 PM, TrollAutokill said:

ClothingJewelry, ArmorJewelry, JewelryExpensive and ClothingRing: these keywords are used when deciding which items to strip, when stripping jewelry is on. Those keywords are also used to evaluate gifts value.

Can you clarify exactly what keywords are needed for slaves to recognise items as jewellery gifts?  The "eyes light up" notification seems to be somewhat inconsistent, and there doesn't appear to be a dialogue acknowledgement (maybe something like "Thank you, Mistress!  I will treasure this forever and ever!" would be a nice addition?), so it's hard to be sure I have things tagged correctly.  

 

"ClothingJewelry" doesn't seem to be a keyword that exists, but in addition to ClothingRing, there's also ClothingNecklace and ClothingCirclet that should probably be checked. 

 

It looks like maybe you're relying on ArmorJewelry, but I would caution against depending on this, as it's function is to determine the item's crafting category at the forge, and many modded jewellery items intentionally don't use it since that category tends to get so cluttered.  I have all my favourite my modded jewellery tagged ArmorMaterialElven, for example, so I can easily find the recipes when I want them.  You could also check VendorItemJewelry, but that obviously makes the items saleable to general goods vendors, court wizards, Madesi, etc., which some items may intentionally avoid.  

 

ClothingRing, ClothingNecklace, and ClothingCirclet are probably the best keywords to be relying on here, because they don't have any second-order consequences.  I'd also secondarily check JewelryExpensive—to allow accounting for jewellery in non-vanilla slots, like bracelets, anklets, earrings, etc.—and your bases should be well-covered.

 

For example, I have garlands/circlets from Ophelia that are tagged:

ClothingCirclet

VendorItemJewelry

JewelryExpensive

ArmorMaterialElven

 

And I have amulets from KS that are tagged:

ClothingNecklace

VendorItemJewelry

JewelryExpensive

ArmorMaterialElven

All of the following notes are from 2.12.2:

Dialogue Conditions

• No refusal dialogue is playing when slaves refuse to "Try harder!" while masturbating.  
• Something is wrong with sexual consent for slaves in Shocked mood.  They play the refusal notification but the consent dialogue.
  • I would assume the dialogue is correct, but it depends on how "consent" is being defined.  I would suggest a more expansive conception of consent than would pass in a modern legal system.  In which case, given that slaves in shock should be sort of semi-catatonic, it'd be natural for them to be highly compliant.
  • I have since observed the same thing with In Love mood.  They get a "refused sex" punishment reason, but behave consensually.
• Posing/tied/masturbating slaves probably shouldn't play "collision" dialogues.  (e.g., "Sorry, I was in your way, Mistress.")
• "Please, Mistress!  Stop!  You're going to kill her!"
  • I love the idea of this dialogue, but it's currently playing at times that don't make sense.  I don't know what the conditions for this are, currently.  It seems to just play randomly.  It might just be any time any slave has an active punishment reason?  If none of the slaves with me have ever been punished, and I'm not currently punishing any slaves, I'll still get this dialogue periodically.  I would think this should play in response to you using pain punishment—and possibly rape?—on a slave.
• "This rain might be my chance to escape."
  • I'm not sure exactly what the conditions are here currently, but slaves with >60 Resignation—who have thus ceased trying to escape—continue playing this dialogue.  I'd think it should only play for <60 Resignation.
• I'm not sure what the current design intent is for the "respectful" and "not respectful" versions of slaves' responses is supposed to be.  My understanding is that slaves with high Respect training should always address their replies to Mistress, and slaves with low Respect training should fail to do so.  I'm finding this behaviour to be inconsistent, but that may just be related to Respect training being too easy currently (see below).  It seems like perhaps the threshold for a 100% chance to play respectful dialogues might currently be set too low?
• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"  (Great dialogue, by the way!)
  • I've only ever heard this from slaves who are recently captured and barely trained.  That doesn't seem correct.  This dialogue would best fit slaves who are in the middle of their training—maybe >60 Resignation and >50 Submission or something along those lines, but not slaves who are fully trained, either.
• "I am trying hard to be the perfect slave."
  • I only ever hear this from largely untrained slaves.  I even sometimes get a freshly captured slave utter this as her first words as a slave—that can't be right.
• Weather complaints really need a cooldown.  These would be some nice flavour if used sparingly, but if you have several slaves with you, it's currently a ceaseless cacophony.
  • Maybe once every 3–6 in-game hours, with a bit of variation based on personality—Needy, maybe?—so all your slaves don't stay synchronised in their complaining?
• "Have mercy, Mistress!  I will behave!" → What are the conditions for this?  I hear this from fully trained slaves, including slaves who have never been punished.  It seems strange for a slave who's been told hundreds of times what a good girl she is, and who has never ever been punished, and who has accepted her place as a slave, to be begging for mercy.
• Should bandits be asking for news from their relatives?  That line seems like it should be for uniques only.

Text Edits

• "... kept your promise of to be gentle."  I'm not sure about the other promises, but probably this is a structural thing.
• Typo:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."  OR:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."
• "Please^, Mistress^!  This snow is not never going to stop ever!  I need something warm!" → "Please, Mistress!  This snow is never going to stop!  I need something warm!"
• "Please^, Mistress!  I think I saw a lightning!" → "Please, Mistress!  I think I saw lightning!" / "... I think I saw some lightning." (Uncountable noun.)
• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"
• "By the Divines, I'm getting aroused!"
  • "aroused" sounds too clinical.  I'd suggest going with "this is making me wet," but you could also go with, "I'm getting wet," or, "I'm getting turned on," or, "this is turning me on."
• Both "come"/"coming" and "cum"/"cumming" are technically permissible spellings for the synonym of orgasm, but "cum"/"cumming" is definitely the dominant variant in current usage.  Especially in lewd content, "cum"/"cumming" is almost exclusively preferred.  DoM is currently using the "come"/"coming" spelling.  I'd suggest changing tack and adopting the more common variant.
• "eyes light up" notification for new jewellery is playing the wrong gender.  I can't confirm whether the male and female texts are reversed, or whether it's simply always playing the male notification, but female slaves are looking at "his new jewellery."
• (Verbose Feelings info pane) Typo: "I am friend^s with [slave(s)]." → "I am friends with [slave(s)]."
• Editor's notes for body inspection:
  • "[Slave's] pointy nipples stiffen" → "[Slave's] nipples perk up"
  • "[Slave] unconsciously opens her mouth" → "[Slave] unconsciously parts her lips"
  • "[Slave] seems a bit wary of as you move" & "[Slave] seems a bit wary of ^you as you approach" → "[Slave] seems a bit wary of you as you approach"
    • Seems like there are two versions of this one, both of which have issues.  Recommend combining them into one corrected notification.
  • "[Slave] for sure feels like a virgin" → "[Slave] feels like a virgin for sure" / "[Slave] certainly feels like a virgin.
• "I was given [...] false promises X times" → Why "false"?  This counter tracks the times I've promised to be gentle and kept my promise, so by definition, it wasn't a false promise—it was a sincere promise!

Balance / Tuning

• What's up with "Broken" mood?  The way it worked in previous versions made a lot more sense.  What is the intent here?
  • The term is usually understood colloquially to be a pretty stable state that roughly evokes having given up on resisting, and previous DoM versions, that's pretty much how it worked, but now it has been recast as an ephemeral condition accompanied by a constant flow of tears.  It almost feels like a clone of Shocked status, currently.
  • Right now, Broken is pretty rare overall—most slaves never experience this state—and when it does occur, it never lasts very long before the slave "cools down".  While Broken, the slave is always crying and always "could use some comforting". 
• Why do Loyal slaves still view me as "always being her enemy" or "disgusting her"?  That sounds more befitting of Broken slaves; Loyal slaves should view Mistress positively, just without the sexual interest, shouldn't they?
• I think the formula for Submissive personality in slaves trying to flee and/or resignation training from punishing running_away might be backwards.  Either that, or Submissive personality just doesn't have the expected effect.
• Respect training is probably too easy currently.  I find that slaves generally quickly max out Respect training as a side-effect of other training, and it never needs to be addressed directly, so I'd suggest reducing Respect training from all passive sources—i.e., sources except punishing Not_respectful by 50%. 
• Didnt_pose seems to be a more potent punishment reason than Didnt_wait, yet the latter overrides the former.
  • Either the order of precedence should be reversed, or Didnt_wait should give significantly more Submission training than it currently does.  I'd suggest that Didnt_wait should give 50% more Submission training than Didnt_pose since the latter additionally generates Pose training.
• "Come here slave → Touch yourself → ..." leads directly to Submission and Sex training.  "You call that masturbating?  Try harder!" does not seem to generate any training directly—only from praising for getting horny afterwards.
  • "Try harder!" needs to generate comparable training to "Touch yourself!" to make the optimal training pattern make sense.  Right now, the best strategy is "Touch yourself" → "Follow Me" (or some pose) → "Touch yourself" → Repeat ad infinitum, which is not a good gameplay loop.
• Slaves probably should need to have had sex with you at least once before they fall in love.  Right now, you can get slaves to fall in love just by having them masturbate.  It's debatable which is more realistic—I've certainly felt like I was falling in love with a girl I had never had sex with—but it would be clearly better from a gameplay perspective to have more control over who becomes loyal and who becomes in love.  Right now, In Love is largely dominating Loyal status.
• I'm not sure exactly how personality trait(s) and moods affect the rate at which posing slaves generate "good pet" praise reasons, but the effect needs to be scaled back.  The range is currently huge, with some slaves almost letting you spam praise, and others posing half an hour (real time) before generating their first reason.  The overall balance of pose training is in a pretty good place at this point; I think this is the last significant issue remaining here.
• Friendship formation really needs some tuning.
  • Overall, friendship formation is happening too quickly and easily.  It's not uncommon for a new slave to leave the dungeon I captured her in already having picked three or four of her friends.  I'm not enslaving kindergarteners!  Slaves very occasionally forming an instant connection with a highly compatible match would be fine, but in general, it'd be both more realistic and better for gameplay if they need to spend a couple of days together before getting attached.
  • That said, some slaves need literally months together in game before they'll befriend one another.  That may or may not be realistic, but it's frustrating in terms of gameplay.  Perhaps the effect of personality needs to be toned down somewhat?
    • Probably the best solution here would be to implement some sort of active tools for the player to facilitate friendships between specific slaves.  I've discussed some ideas for this in previous posts.
  • We need a natural way(s) to end friendships (see Feature Ideas below).
  • I'm finding that the current Jealousy/Rivalry mechanics basically function to discourage me from having sex with my slaves, which I don't think is intended design.  In practice, not wanting to sew disharmony in the ranks is trumping the desire to enjoy the company of my favourite pets.
    • If I could reliably get all of my companions to befriend one another, it would help a lot with this.  (See also my notes on Jealous/Unhappy moods below.)
• The current state of Anger training is very frustrating.
  • Several factors in how the mechanic is currently constructed interact to create a potentially endless loop of anger:
    • Even at 100 Anger Training, slaves can still get Angry when you punish their friends, including scolding.
    • When slaves get Angry, they lose Anger Training.
  • Because they lose training, you can't ignore it when they get Angry.  You're basically forced to always punish Anger, or they'll just degrade over time.  
  • Because they never stop getting Angry, if you've got a large group of slaves you're training, you can end up in an endless loop of Anger punishments.  It does get better as training improves, fortunately, but it never completely goes away.  With lower training, it's all-consuming.
  • I don't understand why Anger training degrades when other stats don't.  Speaking strictly for myself, I don't find this mechanic to be fun.  Changing that would allow you to ignore it when slaves get Angry, which would break the loop.  Alternatively, changing the chance to get Angry at friends' punishments to zero at 100 Anger Training would leave the Anger loop for a while, but eventually, you'd be able to train your way out of it, and it would cease to be a concern.  
  • Additionally, the being angry reason seems to have a higher priority than it should.  i.e., It overrides/blocks other reasons that I wouldn't think it should.  I haven't been able to work out exactly what the order of operations is, because it seems somewhat inconsistent.  
    • Are there two different mechanics that are both being called "being angry"?  That would explain some of what I'm seeing.  If that's correct, maybe the more serious one should be renamed to something like "lashing out"?
• The most frustrating thing in the current build, however, is the state of didnt_listen.  Fortunately, it's quite simple to fix: Punishing for didnt_listen really needs to give Submission Training.
  • Just as a general point about design philosophy, whatever stats are involved in the check for performing a behaviour need to be affected by punishment for failure to execute that behaviour. 
    • The current DoM build conforms to this philosophy for most things, but not for didnt_listen.  I'm not certain what the formula for the check is, but it seems to either be straight Submission or a combination of Submission and Respect.  But punishing for didnt_listen seems to only provide Respect Training.  So when you want to comfort or compliment your slaves, you'll frequently elicit didnt_listen responses, and punishing that defiance doesn't do anything to decrease the chance of them continuing to be defiant in the future. 
• The Jealous and Unhappy sub-moods of In Love status need to be tuned down significantly.
  • These moods are fantastic additions to DoM, but their effect is currently being greatly watered down by overuse.  These moods should be quite rare so that they feel truly dramatic when they do happen.  Right now, I'm finding most Loving slaves ordinarily spend about half their time either Jealous or Unhappy, and there's no practical way to keep them all happy.  The current implementation is making me callously indifferent to my slaves' moods instead of having the emotional impact we'd get with less frequent occurrence.  When my favourite slave becomes Unhappy, my response should be to exclaim in a panic, "Oh, no!  What can I do to make you feel better, sweetie?!" and drop everything to console her.  But because they're all moody most of the time, in practice, my response has evolved to simply be to shrug and carry on.  That's... disheartening. ?
    • Maybe @Farsh-nuke can figure out how to phrase this dialogue in no more than 80 characters?  Lol.
      • Listen to me, slave. → I have something important to tell you. → I know how lucky I am to have a slave as fucking sexy as you are, and I'm sorry that I've been spending most of my time with these other slaves recently, but it's just that they still need a lot of training, and you're already such a good girl.  I haven't forgotten about you, sweetheart, I'm just busy, but I promise to make time for you just as soon as the new girls are broken, okay?  
        • All kidding aside, maybe one thing that could be done is to have a proactive "I need to train some other slaves" sort of dialogue that makes a slave ignore "flirting with other slaves" for a set period of time?
    • Praising and complimenting slaves should probably have a bigger conciliatory impact on keeping them happy.  It seems like they mostly respond to sex, currently, but that's a sword that cuts both ways since it incites jealousy in other slaves, thus you end up playing whack-a-mole instead of Skyrim.
    • Maybe slaves should ignore flirtation with their friends?
• The rate at which sandboxing slaves play pose animations should probably scaled back significantly.  Right now, they don't really do anything else—they're pretty hyperactive.
  • It could possibly be worth creating two separate sandboxing modes, one along the lines of "Keep yourself busy, slave!" or "Liven this place up, slave!" that plays lots of active poses, and one along the lines of "Relax around here, slave!" that plays poses only occasionally.  Maybe the pools of valid poses would be different, too; not sure.

Bugged Mechanics

• Slaves' "eyes are lighting up" at jewellery that was in their inventory at the time of enslavement immediately upon becoming slaves, before you even open the gift window.  I think this is happening when PAHE moves the items from their outfit to their inventory.
• Slaves are also "looking upset at" me taking non-equippable items they were holding for me.  It's not everything, and I haven't figured out the pattern yet, but I've seen it more than once.  The gift system needs to be set up to not interfere with pack mule slaves if possible; not all item types should be evaluated as gifts by slaves.
  • As far as I can tell, I think it might mostly be a matter of value.  I most frequently encounter it with crafting materials.  If I take a few Iron Ore from my pack slave, she doesn't mind, but if I take a stack of Dragon Bones, she gets upset.  I haven't been able to pin this down, though; it seems inconsistent.
  • You can also get into some serious script lag with this.  At one point, I wanted to change who was serving as my pack slave, so I had to move all my crafting components between slaves.  She didn't react at all immediately, but a few moments later, I got spammed with "looking upset" notifications, and her Anger Training went from 100 to 0 in an instant.  She was almost completely unresponsive for a time while overwhelmed by processing the scripts.
    • Not sure if it's relevant, but I was using the "Open Inventory" hotkey, and I only took a few items at a time because I was trying to avoid this problem with total value.  So I'd open inventory, take a few items, close inventory, repeat.  Again, no reaction until well after I'd finished.
• Not sure if this is DoM or if it's something @CliftonJD needs to address in PAHE core, but weapons are frequently (always?) getting duplicated during the enslavement process.  For NPCs who get their weapons from a levelled list, it seems like the list is being rolled separately for the duplication, so the extra weapon may or may not be identical to the first.
• Similarly, I'm occasionally seeing slaves having a Greybeard's Hood (00036A45) showing up in their inventories during the cloning process.  Some slaves also get them stuck in their Outfit when sold through AYGAS.
  • Reportedly, this is an issue with Full Random NPC Pack.  I don't know if there's any way for PAHE/DoM to fix it.
• Angry slaves are less cooperative for most things, but they appear to be more cooperative when it comes to posing.  Is there a mistake in this formula?  I frequently see angry slaves hold a pose for an extended period of time, and then as soon as their mood shifts, they can't hold a pose for more than a few seconds.
• Some slaves get aroused again after orgasm too quickly, so they're still playing their "cumming" dialogue when the "getting wet" dialogue triggers, which then causes the "stuck dialogue" bug.  A few seconds' delay in how long it takes them to get aroused after orgasm would fix this.
• Sometimes, masturbating slaves told to "Try harder!" generate notifications for both "refuses to masturbate" and "hand starts moving".  It seems like only the latter actually takes effect.  
• Slaves sometimes revert immediately back to their posing or masturbating animation after leaving it, either by being disobedient or by being told to follow.  I suspect this might be lag related, as it seems to be most common when using the all slaves follow hotkey, but I've seen it happen less frequently after telling an individual slave to follow through dialogue or when the slave stops posing on her own, too.
  • When this happens, the slave is locked in the animation, but no longer has the "follow me" dialogue, so you need to give her another pose command before you can try to get her to follow you again.
• Removing straitjackets is counting as "humiliation by stripping".
• Any time you open a slave's inventory through "You're going to wear this," it's playing a "making her wear humiliating clothes" notification, even if she plays a positive dialogue in response to the changes.  There doesn't seem to be any recognition of the different reactions to different clothing keywords, either.
• The bug where posing slaves sometimes "think" they're bound, and generate Struggling reasons instead of Posture Correction is still there.  Hadn't seen it in a while until one recent slave.  No idea what causes it.  Usually, it can be fixed simply by tying and untying the slave, but in the past, I've had slaves who seemed to be permanently glitched.
• Spank Slave should probably not be disenchantable.
  • Also, can we use an MCM button—à la "Get slaver's equipment"—to place it in the inventory instead of doing so automatically?  I want to get rid of the dang thing, and DoM won't let me.
• Newly captured slaves will often "always remember" slaves who had been sold long before they were ever enslaved.  They seem to be retroactively forming friendships.
• The "Diary of Mine" quest is re-enabled every time you load the game.  Also, it still refers to "thugs".
• The maid package needs some work.  The current sweeping animation doesn't work with moving, but the slaves move around while playing it, which makes them look like figurines being slid around on ice.  They need to be locked in place while animating sweeping, then stop playing that animation when they move.
  • Not sure how 3.0.x changes affect this.
• I'm not sure exactly how this works under the bonnet, but all slaves pose/follow hotkeys are acting on slaves in other cells, which I don't think is desired behaviour.  I'd guess this has something to do with "daughter cells", but I don't know exactly how that stuff works.  It doesn't seem to be truly global—if I'm in Whiterun, my slaves won't come running from Lakeview Manor—but it definitely works through load doors.  If I leave some slaves posing in Dragonsreach, for example, and I go to the marketplace and use all slaves follow, they'll coming running right through the doors to Dragonsreach.  
• Scolding should really create a "you already punished me for..." record like pain punishment does.  If you mostly use scolding instead of punishment for training, the current implementation generates some weird behaviour.  (See also this post.)
  • For one, if you only scold a slave, you'll never have any "you already punished me for..." record, so you'll never get any training bonus.  More importantly, though, if you use pain sparingly as I often do, you'll often have a really old "you already punished me for..." record, and so the training bonus will be applied quite haphazardly. 
    • Maybe days ago I punished a slave for being Angry, and since then, I've only used verbal correction.  When she gets angry today, and I scold her for it, I'll suddenly get "for being angry again" notifications, even though it's the first time in days.
  • Ideally, the text in the info pane would specify either "already punished" or "already scolded", but this is just cosmetic.  It should work the same either way.
• NPC budgets for AYGAS need some work:
  • Ainethach—Owner of Karthwastern—has a budget of 82.  He's probably the richest man in the Reach.
  • Jouane Manette—the second most powerful man in Rorikstead—also has a beggar's budget.  
  • I don't have a list, but it seems like many farmers have beggar's budgets despite owning productive farms.
  • It seems like most mill owners have beggar's budgets.
    • Gerdur is probably the richest person in Riverwood, but she has 83 gold to spend on slaves.
  • The NPC budget restrictions also affect their asking price if you want to buy a slave from them, so if a "poor" NPC gets a slave from AYGAS, they'll sell it to you for almost nothing.
• Not cleaning factions seems to be causing some issues.  I think some factions may need to always be cleaned, but I'm not sure exactly which.  Some data:
  • Vigilant Tyranus in Markarth often starts fights with my slaves.  As far as I can tell, he attacks first, not my girls.  The first time I saw this behaviour, it was a vampire slave, and I figured that was the cause, but I've since seen him attacking living slaves, too, so I don't know what the pattern is.
  • The Unbound Dremora for the Conjuration Ritual Spell quest goes ham on my girls, and bizarrely, the rest of the College then takes his side in the ensuing fight, which causes all manner of mayhem.  I had to park my retinue outside the college for that quest.
  • Reavers (kidnapped from Miraak's thralldom working on his temple if that matters) sold to AYGAS without being cleaned first become hostile to the PC.  Not sure what's going on with this one; maybe something to do with their spellbound thrall status prior to completing Cleansing the Stones; I didn't have problems with aggressive Reavers who weren't under Miraak's spell.  At any rate, cleaning factions before selling them reliably prevents the bug from my testing.
  • It seems like maybe Civil War factions should always be cleaned.
    • My Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile and become unable to enter dialogue if I attack a Stormcloak camp if I don't clean their factions first (and not just crime factions).  I have Civil War Aftermath installed if that could have any effect, but I wouldn't think it should.  Cleaning factions before attacking seems to reliably prevent this bug.
    • I've also had some rare glitches where my Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile just randomly; I think it might have something to do with trying to escape.  Cleaning their factions seems to prevent issues.
      • EDIT: Okay, so I got this behaviour again in a more controlled setting where I could do some testing.  Cleaning their factions does not seem to reliably prevent this bug, so I'm not sure what's going on, but I guess this one isn't related to (not) cleaning factions.
        • I've only had it happen with Stormcloak Soldiers, but I can't say for sure whether it has anything to do with that.  
        • It seems to happen pretty consistently by loading a save with slaves bound.  The bound slaves have a high chance to bug out.
        • Saying they turn "aggressive" is only half right.  They show up as an enemy on the compass, combat music plays, and all my other slaves go into "ready for combat" mode.  It is impossible to open dialogue with the bugged slave, and when interacting with her, she just plays generic "attack" dialogues, e.g., "You'll never take me alive!"  But she doesn't actually attack, and other slaves/followers don't attack her.
        • Once they get into this state, I haven't found any way to fix them short of a full reclone.
        • It doesn't seem to happen to trained slaves, so right now, my best guess as to what's going on is some bug between trying to escape and being bound.  And anecdotally, it seems to have something to do with loading saves; I haven't had it happen without loading a save yet.
      • EDIT 2: I give up trying to figure out what's responsible for this for now.  Disabling "Alarm for runaway slaves" didn't have an effect in preventing it.  And in further testing, I managed to get the bug with another Stormcloak Soldier that I've had for quite a while and who's sufficiently trained to not be trying to escape.  So that rules out another hypothesis.  This save is a few hundred hours in at this point, and things are starting to get a little hinky; recloning a slave is spawning a bunch of duplicates and ghost slaves, too.  The only thing I can say for sure is that I've only observed this bug with Stormcloak Soldier slaves, but I have no idea why that would be at this point.  I'm going to start a new save, and I think I'll try doing the Civil War early this time, so we'll see if I get the same bug earlier in a save.
•  It looks like you've added a GSPose as a possible cover self animation, but it isn't really working.  They get stuck in the animation and then ice skate around until you make them use another animation.  
  •   Reveal hidden contents

    

• This awkward bondage animation definitely shouldn't be a "dance".
  • Spoiler

    

Feature Ideas

• A dialogue to let Vampire slaves feed on you.  (e.g., "Are you hungry, pet?" / "Is my pet hungry?")  Would call SexLab animations tagged "Feeding".  (See here for some suitable animations courtesy of @Herowynne.)  Would pull slaves toward "In Love" mood.
  • Not something I'd use, but it could also go both ways, I reckon, for vampire players.  Vampire PC could demand feeding from non-vampire slaves.  (e.g., "Come here, slave!" → "Your Mistress is hungry, slave.")
• Designate one special slave as your "personal companion".
  • Companion might have closer follower range than other slaves?  AYGAS slaves sold as sexual companions follow their owners more closely than those sold as workers.
  • Companion shares your bed.  Maybe a lightweight built-in system along the lines of Double Beds for Spooning?
  • Companion will come and kneel next to crafting stations and watch while you work.
  • Companion will massage your feet or shoulders when you sit.
    • This would replace the buggy system that currently exists HSH.  I love the idea of that system, but it has always felt half-finished.
  • Probably would require "In Love" mood to be available.
  • Potentially could designate personal companions to other NPCs, such as followers, as well.  The AYGAS "She can keep me company!" feature, where slaves sold as companions have a different package than slaves sold as workers, was part of my inspiration here.  HSH also has the option for you to send a slave to keep your follower company while at home, but it doesn't really do much.
• Separately from the current very simple looped dances, you can order your slaves to "Show me your dance routine, slave!"
  • This plays a non-looping TDF animation.  You can either pack these animations into DoM or make them a soft requirement—permissions are open.
  • At time intervals throughout the duration of the animation, there's an escalating chance for insufficiently trained slaves to play the trip animation used by fleeing slaves, ending the dance prematurely.
    • Successfully passing a trip chance check could generate a small praise reason during the dance.  It'd be fun to encourage my girl to keep going!
    • The chance of making it all the way to the end of the animation without tripping would be non-zero, but quite low, until 100 Pose training, but as training increases, the odds are that they'll make it further into the dance routine.
  • Completing the dance animation successfully without tripping generates a bigger "good pet" reason.
  • Slaves could, of course, refuse out of defiance, generating a didnt_obey reason like with current animation commands.  But slaves could also refuse bashfully (Ashamed mood and Pose training), saying something to the effect of, "I'm not ready for anyone to see my dance yet, Mistress."
• I don't have any good ideas for how to implement it, but if someone else does, an option to make a promise to all slaves who are present at once would be a nice convenience.
• Can slaves break off friendships if they spend time separately from one another similarly to how they form friendships by spending time together?  I'm finding my travelling companions often quickly befriend new captures, who then get shipped off as maids or installed as decorations in one of my properties or just moved into the Lakeview dormitory.  And then those slaves, whom they spend no time with thereafter, stay locked into one of their friendship slots, preventing my travelling companions from ever finally all befriending one another. 
  • Currently, this can be worked around by moving their estranged friends to HSH, which effectively makes them think they're dead.  This should probably itself be fixed, but until there's some other way to end friendships, it's a necessary "feature".  
  • Having an active tool(s) for dissolving friendships would be really helpful here, too.  The simplest idea would be a dialogue for "I don't want you spending time with her anymore"—this would have the names in dialogue issue that plagues so much PAHE stuff, but it could be worked around with a "point her out" system.  This might make the slave sad or angry, but end the friendship.  It might also be refused, generating a didnt_obey reason.

• How it's implemented isn't the main point, but I think I'd do it with a dialogue toggle under the "Let's have a serious chat" tree along the lines of, "I want you to know you're not for sale at any price." / "You're for sale for the right price, slave."  (See also this post.)

  • The idea is simply to give slaves a hidden inventory item—à la the FNIS Sexy Move coins—or a faction, not sure which is better, that makes them invalid targets for AYGAS sales.  I guess you'd add a condition to the script for including the slave as a valid target of "Ever dreamt of having a servant?" that checks for the item.  I don't know the details of how it'd work under the bonnet, hence why I don't know whether it's brilliant or stupid! ? 

  • Knowing she's for sale or not could also have different effects on the slave's mood depending on her training and personality.  Like, for example, it might upset Loving slaves to be for sale and comfort them to know they're not.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

38 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Since we're moving on to new versions now, I've gone ahead and added my remaining notes for 2.12.2 to the big Wall-o'-Text™ we've been compiling.  I've also organised it better and revised some earlier notes.  Unless 3.0 has a lot of changes that aren't in the changelog, it looks like virtually all of this is still relevant.

 

Need some clarification on the current use of jewellery keywords.  It seems likely that this could use some tweaking.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

All of the following notes are from 2.12.2:

Dialogue Conditions

• No refusal dialogue is playing when slaves refuse to "Try harder!" while masturbating.  
• Something is wrong with sexual consent for slaves in Shocked mood.  They play the refusal notification but the consent dialogue.
  • I would assume the dialogue is correct, but it depends on how "consent" is being defined.  I would suggest a more expansive conception of consent than would pass in a modern legal system.  In which case, given that slaves in shock should be sort of semi-catatonic, it'd be natural for them to be highly compliant.
  • I have since observed the same thing with In Love mood.  They get a "refused sex" punishment reason, but behave consensually.
• Posing/tied/masturbating slaves probably shouldn't play "collision" dialogues.  (e.g., "Sorry, I was in your way, Mistress.")
• "Please, Mistress!  Stop!  You're going to kill her!"
  • I love the idea of this dialogue, but it's currently playing at times that don't make sense.  I don't know what the conditions for this are, currently.  It seems to just play randomly.  It might just be any time any slave has an active punishment reason?  If none of the slaves with me have ever been punished, and I'm not currently punishing any slaves, I'll still get this dialogue periodically.  I would think this should play in response to you using pain punishment—and possibly rape?—on a slave.
• "This rain might be my chance to escape."
  • I'm not sure exactly what the conditions are here currently, but slaves with >60 Resignation—who have thus ceased trying to escape—continue playing this dialogue.  I'd think it should only play for <60 Resignation.
• I'm not sure what the current design intent is for the "respectful" and "not respectful" versions of slaves' responses is supposed to be.  My understanding is that slaves with high Respect training should always address their replies to Mistress, and slaves with low Respect training should fail to do so.  I'm finding this behaviour to be inconsistent, but that may just be related to Respect training being too easy currently (see below).  It seems like perhaps the threshold for a 100% chance to play respectful dialogues might currently be set too low?
• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"  (Great dialogue, by the way!)
  • I've only ever heard this from slaves who are recently captured and barely trained.  That doesn't seem correct.  This dialogue would best fit slaves who are in the middle of their training—maybe >60 Resignation and >50 Submission or something along those lines, but not slaves who are fully trained, either.
• "I am trying hard to be the perfect slave."
  • I only ever hear this from largely untrained slaves.  I even sometimes get a freshly captured slave utter this as her first words as a slave—that can't be right.

Text Edits

• "... kept your promise of to be gentle."  I'm not sure about the other promises, but probably this is a structural thing.
• Typo:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."  OR:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."
• "Please^, Mistress^!  This snow is not never going to stop ever!  I need something warm!" → "Please, Mistress!  This snow is never going to stop!  I need something warm!"
• "Please^, Mistress!  I think I saw a lightning!" → "Please, Mistress!  I think I saw lightning!" / "... I think I saw some lightning." (Uncountable noun.)
• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"
• "By the Divines, I'm getting aroused!"
  • "aroused" sounds too clinical.  I'd suggest going with "this is making me wet," but you could also go with, "I'm getting wet," or, "I'm getting turned on," or, "this is turning me on."
• Both "come"/"coming" and "cum"/"cumming" are technically permissible spellings for the synonym of orgasm, but "cum"/"cumming" is definitely the dominant variant in current usage.  Especially in lewd content, "cum"/"cumming" is almost exclusively preferred.  DoM is currently using the "come"/"coming" spelling.  I'd suggest changing tack and adopting the more common variant.
• "eyes light up" notification for new jewellery is playing the wrong gender.  I can't confirm whether the male and female texts are reversed, or whether it's simply always playing the male notification, but female slaves are looking at "his new jewellery."
• (Verbose Feelings info pane) Typo: "I am friend^s with [slave(s)]." → "I am friends with [slave(s)]."
• Editor's notes for body inspection:
  • "[Slave's] pointy nipples stiffen" → "[Slave's] nipples perk up"
  • "[Slave] unconsciously opens her mouth" → "[Slave] unconsciously parts her lips"
  • "[Slave] seems a bit wary of as you move" & "[Slave] seems a bit wary of ^you as you approach" → "[Slave] seems a bit wary of you as you approach"
    • Seems like there are two versions of this one, both of which have issues.  Recommend combining them into one corrected notification.
  • "[Slave] for sure feels like a virgin" → "[Slave] feels like a virgin for sure" / "[Slave] certainly feels like a virgin.

Training Balance

• What's up with "Broken" mood?  The way it worked in previous versions made a lot more sense.  What is the intent here?
  • The term is usually understood colloquially to be a pretty stable state that roughly evokes having given up on resisting, and previous DoM versions, that's pretty much how it worked, but now it has been recast as an ephemeral condition accompanied by a constant flow of tears.  It almost feels like a clone of Shocked status, currently.
  • Right now, Broken is pretty rare overall—most slaves never experience this state—and when it does occur, it never lasts very long before the slave "cools down".  While Broken, the slave is always crying and always "could use some comforting". 
• Why do Loyal slaves still view me as "always being her enemy" or "disgusting her"?  That sounds more befitting of Broken slaves; Loyal slaves should view Mistress positively, just without the sexual interest, shouldn't they?
• I think the formula for Submissive personality in slaves trying to flee and/or resignation training from punishing running_away might be backwards.  Either that, or Submissive personality just doesn't have the expected effect.
• Respect training is probably too easy currently.  I find that slaves generally quickly max out Respect training as a side-effect of other training, and it never needs to be addressed directly, so I'd suggest reducing Respect training from all passive sources—i.e., sources except punishing Not_respectful by 50%. 
• Didnt_pose seems to be a more potent punishment reason than Didnt_wait, yet the latter overrides the former.
  • Either the order of precedence should be reversed, or Didnt_wait should give significantly more Submission training than it currently does.  I'd suggest that Didnt_wait should give 50% more Submission training than Didnt_pose since the latter additionally generates Pose training.
• "Come here slave → Touch yourself → ..." leads directly to Submission and Sex training.  "You call that masturbating?  Try harder!" does not seem to generate any training directly—only from praising for getting horny afterwards.
  • "Try harder!" needs to generate comparable training to "Touch yourself!" to make the optimal training pattern make sense.  Right now, the best strategy is "Touch yourself" → "Follow Me" (or some pose) → "Touch yourself" → Repeat ad infinitum, which is not a good gameplay loop.
• Slaves probably should need to have had sex with you at least once before they fall in love.  Right now, you can get slaves to fall in love just by having them masturbate.  It's debatable which is more realistic—I've certainly felt like I was falling in love with a girl I had never had sex with—but it would be clearly better from a gameplay perspective to have more control over who becomes loyal and who becomes in love.  Right now, In Love is largely dominating Loyal status.
• I'm not sure exactly how personality trait(s) and moods affect the rate at which posing slaves generate "good pet" praise reasons, but the effect needs to be scaled back.  The range is currently huge, with some slaves almost letting you spam praise, and others posing half an hour (real time) before generating their first reason.  The overall balance of pose training is in a pretty good place at this point; I think this is the last significant issue remaining here.
• Friendship formation really needs some tuning.
  • Overall, friendship formation is happening too quickly and easily.  It's not uncommon for a new slave to leave the dungeon I captured her in already having picked three or four of her friends.  I'm not enslaving kindergarteners!  Slaves very occasionally forming an instant connection with a highly compatible match would be fine, but in general, it'd be both more realistic and better for gameplay if they need to spend a couple of days together before getting attached.
  • That said, some slaves need literally months together in game before they'll befriend one another.  That may or may not be realistic, but it's frustrating in terms of gameplay.  Perhaps the effect of personality needs to be toned down somewhat?
    • Probably the best solution here would be to implement some sort of active tools for the player to facilitate friendships between specific slaves.  I've discussed some ideas for this in previous posts.
  • We need a natural way(s) to end friendships (see Feature Ideas below).
  • I'm finding that the current Jealousy/Rivalry mechanics basically function to discourage me from having sex with my slaves, which I don't think is intended design.  In practice, not wanting to sew disharmony in the ranks is trumping the desire to enjoy the company of my favourite pets.
    • If I could reliably get all of my companions to befriend one another, it would help a lot with this.  (See also my notes on Jealous/Unhappy moods below.)
• The current state of Anger training is very frustrating.
  • Several factors in how the mechanic is currently constructed interact to create a potentially endless loop of anger:
    • Even at 100 Anger Training, slaves can still get Angry when you punish their friends, including scolding.
    • When slaves get Angry, they lose Anger Training.
  • Because they lose training, you can't ignore it when they get Angry.  You're basically forced to always punish Anger, or they'll just degrade over time.  
  • Because they never stop getting Angry, if you've got a large group of slaves you're training, you can end up in an endless loop of Anger punishments.  It does get better as training improves, fortunately, but it never completely goes away.  With lower training, it's all-consuming.
  • I don't understand why Anger training degrades when other stats don't.  Speaking strictly for myself, I don't find this mechanic to be fun.  Changing that would allow you to ignore it when slaves get Angry, which would break the loop.  Alternatively, changing the chance to get Angry at friends' punishments to zero at 100 Anger Training would leave the Anger loop for a while, but eventually, you'd be able to train your way out of it, and it would cease to be a concern.  
  • Additionally, the being angry reason seems to have a higher priority than it should.  i.e., It overrides/blocks other reasons that I wouldn't think it should.  I haven't been able to work out exactly what the order of operations is, because it seems somewhat inconsistent.  
    • Are there two different mechanics that are both being called "being angry"?  That would explain some of what I'm seeing.  If that's correct, maybe the more serious one should be renamed to something like "lashing out"?
• The most frustrating thing in the current build, however, is the state of didnt_listen:
  • Just as a general point about design philosophy, whatever stats are involved in the check for performing a behaviour need to be affected by punishment for failure to execute that behaviour. 
    • The current DoM build conforms to this philosophy for most things, but not for didnt_listen.  I'm not certain what the formula for the check is, but it seems to either be straight Submission or a combination of Submission and Respect.  But punishing for didnt_listen seems to only provide Respect Training.  So when you want to comfort or compliment your slaves, you'll frequently elicit didnt_listen responses, and punishing that defiance doesn't do anything to decrease the chance of them continuing to be defiant in the future.  Punishing for didnt_listen really needs to give Submission Training.
• The Jealous and Unhappy sub-moods of In Love status need to be tuned down significantly.
  • These moods are fantastic additions to DoM, but their effect is currently being greatly watered down by overuse.  These moods should be quite rare so that they feel truly dramatic when they do happen.  Right now, I'm finding most Loving slaves ordinarily spend about half their time either Jealous or Unhappy, and there's no practical way to keep them all happy.  The current implementation is making me callously indifferent to my slaves' moods instead of having the emotional impact we'd get with less frequent occurrence.  When my favourite slave becomes Unhappy, my response should be to exclaim in a panic, "Oh, no!  What can I do to make you feel better, sweetie?!" and drop everything to console her.  But because they're all moody most of the time, in practice, my response has evolved to simply be to shrug and carry on.  That's... disheartening. ?
    • Maybe @Farsh-nuke can figure out how to phrase this dialogue in no more than 80 characters?  Lol.
      • Listen to me, slave. → I have something important to tell you. → I know how lucky I am to have a slave as fucking sexy as you are, and I'm sorry that I've been spending most of my time with these other slaves recently, but it's just that they still need a lot of training, and you're already such a good girl.  I haven't forgotten about you, sweetheart, I'm just busy, but I promise to make time for you just as soon as the new girls are broken, okay?  
        • All kidding aside, maybe one thing that could be done is to have a proactive "I need to train some other slaves" sort of dialogue that makes a slave ignore "flirting with other slaves" for a set period of time?
    • Praising and complimenting slaves should probably have a bigger conciliatory impact on keeping them happy.  It seems like they mostly respond to sex, currently, but that's a sword that cuts both ways since it incites jealousy in other slaves, thus you end up playing whack-a-mole instead of Skyrim.
    • Maybe slaves should ignore flirtation with their friends?

Bugged Mechanics

• Slaves' "eyes are lighting up" at jewellery that was in their inventory at the time of enslavement immediately upon becoming slaves, before you even open the gift window.  I think this is happening when PAHE moves the items from their outfit to their inventory.
• Slaves are also "looking upset at" me taking non-equippable items they were holding for me.  It's not everything, and I haven't figured out the pattern yet, but I've seen it more than once.  The gift system needs to be set up to not interfere with pack mule slaves if possible; not all item types should be evaluated as gifts by slaves.
  • As far as I can tell, I think it might mostly be a matter of value.  I most frequently encounter it with crafting materials.  If I take a few Iron Ore from my pack slave, she doesn't mind, but if I take a stack of Dragon Bones, she gets upset.  I haven't been able to pin this down, though; it seems inconsistent.
  • You can also get into some serious script lag with this.  At one point, I wanted to change who was serving as my pack slave, so I had to move all my crafting components between slaves.  She didn't react at all immediately, but a few moments later, I got spammed with "looking upset" notifications, and her Anger Training went from 100 to 0 in an instant.  She was almost completely unresponsive for a time while overwhelmed by processing the scripts.
    • Not sure if it's relevant, but I was using the "Open Inventory" hotkey, and I only took a few items at a time because I was trying to avoid this problem with total value.  So I'd open inventory, take a few items, close inventory, repeat.  Again, no reaction until well after I'd finished.
• Not sure if this is DoM or if it's something @CliftonJD needs to address in PAHE core, but weapons are frequently (always?) getting duplicated during the enslavement process.  For NPCs who get their weapons from a levelled list, it seems like the list is being rolled separately for the duplication, so the extra weapon may or may not be identical to the first.
• Similarly, I'm occasionally seeing slaves having a Greybeard's Hood (00036A45) showing up in their inventories during the cloning process.  Some slaves also get them stuck in their Outfit when sold through AYGAS.
  • Reportedly, this is an issue with Full Random NPC Pack.  I don't know if there's any way for PAHE/DoM to fix it.
• Angry slaves are less cooperative for most things, but they appear to be more cooperative when it comes to posing.  Is there a mistake in this formula?  I frequently see angry slaves hold a pose for an extended period of time, and then as soon as their mood shifts, they can't hold a pose for more than a few seconds.
• Some slaves get aroused again after orgasm too quickly, so they're still playing their "cumming" dialogue when the "getting wet" dialogue triggers, which then causes the "stuck dialogue" bug.  A few seconds' delay in how long it takes them to get aroused after orgasm would fix this.
• Sometimes, masturbating slaves told to "Try harder!" generate notifications for both "refuses to masturbate" and "hand starts moving".  It seems like only the latter actually takes effect.  
• Slaves sometimes revert immediately back to their posing or masturbating animation after leaving it, either by being disobedient or by being told to follow.  I suspect this might be lag related, as it seems to be most common when using the all slaves follow hotkey, but I've seen it happen less frequently after telling an individual slave to follow through dialogue or when the slave stops posing on her own, too.
  • When this happens, the slave is locked in the animation, but no longer has the "follow me" dialogue, so you need to give her another pose command before you can try to get her to follow you again.
• Removing straitjackets is counting as "humiliation by stripping".
• Any time you open a slave's inventory through "You're going to wear this," it's playing a "making her wear humiliating clothes" notification, even if she plays a positive dialogue in response to the changes.  There doesn't seem to be any recognition of the different reactions to different clothing keywords, either.
• The bug where posing slaves sometimes "think" they're bound, and generate Struggling reasons instead of Posture Correction is still there.  Hadn't seen it in a while until one recent slave.  No idea what causes it.  Usually, it can be fixed simply by tying and untying the slave, but in the past, I've had slaves who seemed to be permanently glitched.
• Spank Slave should probably not be disenchantable.
  • Also, can we use an MCM button—à la "Get slaver's equipment"—to place it in the inventory instead of doing so automatically?  I want to get rid of the dang thing, and DoM won't let me.
• The maid package needs some work.  The current sweeping animation doesn't work with moving, but the slaves move around while playing it, which makes them look like figurines being slid around on ice.  They need to be locked in place while animating sweeping, then stop playing that animation when they move.
  • Not sure how 3.0.x changes affect this.
• I'm not sure exactly how this works under the bonnet, but all slaves pose/follow hotkeys are acting on slaves in other cells, which I don't think is desired behaviour.  I'd guess this has something to do with "daughter cells", but I don't know exactly how that stuff works.  It doesn't seem to be truly global—if I'm in Whiterun, my slaves won't come running from Lakeview Manor—but it definitely works through load doors.  If I leave some slaves posing in Dragonsreach, for example, and I go to the marketplace and use all slaves follow, they'll coming running right through the doors to Dragonsreach.  
• Scolding should really create a "you already punished me for..." record like pain punishment does.  If you mostly use scolding instead of punishment for training, the current implementation generates some weird behaviour.  (See also this post.)
  • For one, if you only scold a slave, you'll never have any "you already punished me for..." record, so you'll never get any training bonus.  More importantly, though, if you use pain sparingly as I often do, you'll often have a really old "you already punished me for..." record, and so the training bonus will be applied quite haphazardly. 
    • Maybe days ago I punished a slave for being Angry, and since then, I've only used verbal correction.  When she gets angry today, and I scold her for it, I'll suddenly get "for being angry again" notifications, even though it's the first time in days.
  • Ideally, the text in the info pane would specify either "already punished" or "already scolded", but this is just cosmetic.  It should work the same either way.
• NPC budgets for AYGAS need some work:
  • Ainethach—Owner of Karthwastern—has a budget of 82.  He's probably the richest man in the Reach.
  • Jouane Manette—the second most powerful man in Rorikstead—also has a beggar's budget.  
  • I don't have a list, but it seems like many farmers have beggar's budgets despite owning productive farms.
  • It seems like most mill owners have beggar's budgets.
    • Gerdur is probably the richest person in Riverwood, but she has 83 gold to spend on slaves.
  • The NPC budget restrictions also affect their asking price if you want to buy a slave from them, so if a "poor" NPC gets a slave from AYGAS, they'll sell it to you for almost nothing.
• Not cleaning factions seems to be causing some issues.  I think some factions may need to always be cleaned, but I'm not sure exactly which.  Some data:
  • Vigilant Tyranus in Markarth often starts fights with my slaves.  As far as I can tell, he attacks first, not my girls.  The first time I saw this behaviour, it was a vampire slave, and I figured that was the cause, but I've since seen him attacking living slaves, too, so I don't know what the pattern is.
  • The Unbound Dremora for the Conjuration Ritual Spell quest goes ham on my girls, and bizarrely, the rest of the College then takes his side in the ensuing fight, which causes all manner of mayhem.  I had to park my retinue outside the college for that quest.
  • Reavers (kidnapped from Miraak's thralldom working on his temple if that matters) sold to AYGAS without being cleaned first become hostile to the PC.  Not sure what's going on with this one; maybe something to do with their spellbound thrall status prior to completing Cleansing the Stones; I didn't have problems with aggressive Reavers who weren't under Miraak's spell.  At any rate, cleaning factions before selling them reliably prevents the bug from my testing.
  • It seems like maybe Civil War factions should always be cleaned.
    • My Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile and become unable to enter dialogue if I attack a Stormcloak camp if I don't clean their factions first (and not just crime factions).  I have Civil War Aftermath installed if that could have any effect, but I wouldn't think it should.  Cleaning factions before attacking seems to reliably prevent this bug.
    • I've also had some rare glitches where my Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile just randomly; I think it might have something to do with trying to escape.  Cleaning their factions seems to prevent issues.
      • EDIT: Okay, so I got this behaviour again in a more controlled setting where I could do some testing.  Cleaning their factions does not seem to reliably prevent this bug, so I'm not sure what's going on, but I guess this one isn't related to (not) cleaning factions.
        • I've only had it happen with Stormcloak Soldiers, but I can't say for sure whether it has anything to do with that.  
        • It seems to happen pretty consistently by loading a save with slaves bound.  The bound slaves have a high chance to bug out.
        • Saying they turn "aggressive" is only half right.  They show up as an enemy on the compass, combat music plays, and all my other slaves go into "ready for combat" mode.  It is impossible to open dialogue with the bugged slave, and when interacting with her, she just plays generic "attack" dialogues, e.g., "You'll never take me alive!"  But she doesn't actually attack, and other slaves/followers don't attack her.
        • Once they get into this state, I haven't found any way to fix them short of a full reclone.
        • It doesn't seem to happen to trained slaves, so right now, my best guess as to what's going on is some bug between trying to escape and being bound.  And anecdotally, it seems to have something to do with loading saves; I haven't had it happen without loading a save yet.
      • EDIT 2: I give up trying to figure out what's responsible for this for now.  Disabling "Alarm for runaway slaves" didn't have an effect in preventing it.  And in further testing, I managed to get the bug with another Stormcloak Soldier that I've had for quite a while and who's sufficiently trained to not be trying to escape.  So that rules out another hypothesis.  This save is a few hundred hours in at this point, and things are starting to get a little hinky; recloning a slave is spawning a bunch of duplicates and ghost slaves, too.  The only thing I can say for sure is that I've only observed this bug with Stormcloak Soldier slaves, but I have no idea why that would be at this point.  I'm going to start a new save, and I think I'll try doing the Civil War early this time, so we'll see if I get the same bug earlier in a save.
•  It looks like you've added a GSPose as a possible cover self animation, but it isn't really working.  They get stuck in the animation and then ice skate around until you make them use another animation.  
  •   Reveal hidden contents

    

• This awkward bondage animation definitely shouldn't be a "dance".
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Feature Ideas

• A dialogue to let Vampire slaves feed on you.  (e.g., "Are you hungry, pet?" / "Is my pet hungry?")  Would call SexLab animations tagged "Feeding".  (See here for some suitable animations courtesy of @Herowynne.)  Would pull slaves toward "In Love" mood.
  • Not something I'd use, but it could also go both ways, I reckon, for vampire players.  Vampire PC could demand feeding from non-vampire slaves.  (e.g., "Come here, slave!" → "Your Mistress is hungry, slave.")
• Designate one special slave as your "personal companion".
  • Companion might have closer follower range than other slaves?  AYGAS slaves sold as sexual companions follow their owners more closely than those sold as workers.
  • Companion shares your bed.  Maybe a lightweight built-in system along the lines of Double Beds for Spooning?
  • Companion will come and kneel next to crafting stations and watch while you work.
  • Companion will massage your feet or shoulders when you sit.
    • This would replace the buggy system that currently exists HSH.  I love the idea of that system, but it has always felt half-finished.
  • Probably would require "In Love" mood to be available.
  • Potentially could designate personal companions to other NPCs, such as followers, as well.  The AYGAS "She can keep me company!" feature, where slaves sold as companions have a different package than slaves sold as workers, was part of my inspiration here.  HSH also has the option for you to send a slave to keep your follower company while at home, but it doesn't really do much.
• Separately from the current very simple looped dances, you can order your slaves to "Show me your dance routine, slave!"
  • This plays a non-looping TDF animation.  You can either pack these animations into DoM or make them a soft requirement—permissions are open.
  • At time intervals throughout the duration of the animation, there's an escalating chance for insufficiently trained slaves to play the trip animation used by fleeing slaves, ending the dance prematurely.
  • Completing the dance animation successfully without tripping generates a bigger "good pet" reason.
  • Slaves could, of course, refuse out of defiance, generating a didnt_obey reason like with current animation commands.  But slaves could also refuse bashfully (Ashamed mood and Pose training), saying something to the effect of, "I'm not ready for anyone to see my dance yet, Mistress."
• I don't have any good ideas for how to implement it, but if someone else does, an option to make a promise to all slaves who are present at once would be a nice convenience.
• Can slaves break off friendships if they spend time separately from one another similarly to how they form friendships by spending time together?  I'm finding my travelling companions often quickly befriend new captures, who then get shipped off as maids or installed as decorations in one of my properties or just moved into the Lakeview dormitory.  And then those slaves, whom they spend no time with thereafter, stay locked into one of their friendship slots, preventing my travelling companions from ever finally all befriending one another. 
  • Currently, this can be worked around by moving their estranged friends to HSH, which effectively makes them think they're dead.  This should probably itself be fixed, but until there's some other way to end friendships, it's a necessary "feature".  
  • Having an active tool(s) for dissolving friendships would be really helpful here, too.  The simplest idea would be a dialogue for "I don't want you spending time with her anymore"—this would have the names in dialogue issue that plagues so much PAHE stuff, but it could be worked around with a "point her out" system.  This might make the slave sad or angry, but end the friendship.  It might also be refused, generating a didnt_obey reason.

I am of the opinion that the action is 'coming' and to 'come' but the produced content is 'cum'. I am not good on brevity and my grammar has never been great. I've been so busy writing line batch 2 I cannot remember the lines I wrote for line batch 1 lol I trust your criticism though and I knew/know your feedback is critical to fine tune what if any of what I wrote makes it into the mod. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Farsh-nuke

[TrollAutokill]

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Since we're moving on to new versions now, I've gone ahead and added my remaining notes for 2.12.2 to the big Wall-o'-Text™ we've been compiling.  I've also organised it better and revised some earlier notes.  Unless 3.0 has a lot of changes that aren't in the changelog, it looks like virtually all of this is still relevant.

 

Need some clarification on the current use of jewellery keywords.  It seems likely that this could use some tweaking.

Skyrim has 4 jewelry keywords  "ArmorJewelry", "JewelryExpensive", "ClothingJewelry" and "VendorItemJewelry" (in 30.0.2 for the last one).

DOM uses all 3 to evaluate jewelry plus "ClothingRich" to evaluate clothes value.

 

Gems should only have the keyword "VendorItemGem" and should not be counted as jewelry.

Dragon bones and dragon scales should not be counted as jewelry, neither should any ingot, since they don't have the jewelry or clothing rich keywords.

 

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

All of the following notes are from 2.12.2:

Dialogue Conditions

• No refusal dialogue is playing when slaves refuse to "Try harder!" while masturbating.  

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Something is wrong with sexual consent for slaves in Shocked mood.  They play the refusal notification but the consent dialogue.
  • I would assume the dialogue is correct, but it depends on how "consent" is being defined.  I would suggest a more expansive conception of consent than would pass in a modern legal system.  In which case, given that slaves in shock should be sort of semi-catatonic, it'd be natural for them to be highly compliant.
  • I have since observed the same thing with In Love mood.  They get a "refused sex" punishment reason, but behave consensually.

Sexual consent is handled by PAHE.

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Posing/tied/masturbating slaves probably shouldn't play "collision" dialogues.  (e.g., "Sorry, I was in your way, Mistress.")

Done.

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "Please, Mistress!  Stop!  You're going to kill her!"
  • I love the idea of this dialogue, but it's currently playing at times that don't make sense.  I don't know what the conditions for this are, currently.  It seems to just play randomly.  It might just be any time any slave has an active punishment reason?  If none of the slaves with me have ever been punished, and I'm not currently punishing any slaves, I'll still get this dialogue periodically.  I would think this should play in response to you using pain punishment—and possibly rape?—on a slave.

It is only for friends of slave getting punished with pain. I changed a bit the function, it should work better.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "This rain might be my chance to escape."
  • I'm not sure exactly what the conditions are here currently, but slaves with >60 Resignation—who have thus ceased trying to escape—continue playing this dialogue.  I'd think it should only play for <60 Resignation.

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• I'm not sure what the current design intent is for the "respectful" and "not respectful" versions of slaves' responses is supposed to be.  My understanding is that slaves with high Respect training should always address their replies to Mistress, and slaves with low Respect training should fail to do so.  I'm finding this behaviour to be inconsistent, but that may just be related to Respect training being too easy currently (see below).  It seems like perhaps the threshold for a 100% chance to play respectful dialogues might currently be set too low?

Chance to be respectful is now reduced. You can also try to force respect with the "be respectful" dialogue options.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"  (Great dialogue, by the way!)
  • I've only ever heard this from slaves who are recently captured and barely trained.  That doesn't seem correct.  This dialogue would best fit slaves who are in the middle of their training—maybe >60 Resignation and >50 Submission or something along those lines, but not slaves who are fully trained, either.

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "I am trying hard to be the perfect slave."
  • I only ever hear this from largely untrained slaves.  I even sometimes get a freshly captured slave utter this as her first words as a slave—that can't be right.

Done.

Those last two were for high anger training. So now you have to propose replacement for anger_training > 84 and 92

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Text Edits

• "... kept your promise of to be gentle."  I'm not sure about the other promises, but probably this is a structural thing.

Yes it is structural. But it's done anyway, at the price of many if-s

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Typo:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."  OR:
  • "So, what do we do know?  We are all wet and soon ^we'll be as smelly as a mammoth."

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "Please^, Mistress^!  This snow is not never going to stop ever!  I need something warm!" → "Please, Mistress!  This snow is never going to stop!  I need something warm!"

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "Please^, Mistress!  I think I saw a lightning!" → "Please, Mistress!  I think I saw lightning!" / "... I think I saw some lightning." (Uncountable noun.)

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "I still do^make a few mistakes, but I am learning!" → "I still make a few mistakes, but I am learning!"

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "By the Divines, I'm getting aroused!"
  • "aroused" sounds too clinical.  I'd suggest going with "this is making me wet," but you could also go with, "I'm getting wet," or, "I'm getting turned on," or, "this is turning me on."

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Both "come"/"coming" and "cum"/"cumming" are technically permissible spellings for the synonym of orgasm, but "cum"/"cumming" is definitely the dominant variant in current usage.  Especially in lewd content, "cum"/"cumming" is almost exclusively preferred.  DoM is currently using the "come"/"coming" spelling.  I'd suggest changing tack and adopting the more common variant.

In Cyrodiil maybe, not sure which one was prefered in Skyrim though.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "eyes light up" notification for new jewellery is playing the wrong gender.  I can't confirm whether the male and female texts are reversed, or whether it's simply always playing the male notification, but female slaves are looking at "his new jewellery."

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• (Verbose Feelings info pane) Typo: "I am friend^s with [slave(s)]." → "I am friends with [slave(s)]."

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Editor's notes for body inspection:
  • "[Slave's] pointy nipples stiffen" → "[Slave's] nipples perk up"
  • "[Slave] unconsciously opens her mouth" → "[Slave] unconsciously parts her lips"
  • "[Slave] seems a bit wary of as you move" & "[Slave] seems a bit wary of ^you as you approach" → "[Slave] seems a bit wary of you as you approach"
    • Seems like there are two versions of this one, both of which have issues.  Recommend combining them into one corrected notification.
  • "[Slave] for sure feels like a virgin" → "[Slave] feels like a virgin for sure" / "[Slave] certainly feels like a virgin.

Replaced for grab from front.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Training Balance

• What's up with "Broken" mood?  The way it worked in previous versions made a lot more sense.  What is the intent here?
  • The term is usually understood colloquially to be a pretty stable state that roughly evokes having given up on resisting, and previous DoM versions, that's pretty much how it worked, but now it has been recast as an ephemeral condition accompanied by a constant flow of tears.  It almost feels like a clone of Shocked status, currently.
  • Right now, Broken is pretty rare overall—most slaves never experience this state—and when it does occur, it never lasts very long before the slave "cools down".  While Broken, the slave is always crying and always "could use some comforting". 

True. It's being tuned.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Why do Loyal slaves still view me as "always being her enemy" or "disgusting her"?  That sounds more befitting of Broken slaves; Loyal slaves should view Mistress positively, just without the sexual interest, shouldn't they?

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• I think the formula for Submissive personality in slaves trying to flee and/or resignation training from punishing running_away might be backwards.  Either that, or Submissive personality just doesn't have the expected effect.

Submissive personality reflects the sexual preference of the slave. It is not at all linked with resignation/fleeing/running away.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Respect training is probably too easy currently.  I find that slaves generally quickly max out Respect training as a side-effect of other training, and it never needs to be addressed directly, so I'd suggest reducing Respect training from all passive sources—i.e., sources except punishing Not_respectful by 50%. 

Being tuned. If you use a lot of scolding instead of the whip, respect training goes up faster, that's expected.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Didnt_pose seems to be a more potent punishment reason than Didnt_wait, yet the latter overrides the former.
  • Either the order of precedence should be reversed, or Didnt_wait should give significantly more Submission training than it currently does.  I'd suggest that Didnt_wait should give 50% more Submission training than Didnt_pose since the latter additionally generates Pose training.

Should be fixed wit hthe 4 reasons system.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• "Come here slave → Touch yourself → ..." leads directly to Submission and Sex training.  "You call that masturbating?  Try harder!" does not seem to generate any training directly—only from praising for getting horny afterwards.
  • "Try harder!" needs to generate comparable training to "Touch yourself!" to make the optimal training pattern make sense.  Right now, the best strategy is "Touch yourself" → "Follow Me" (or some pose) → "Touch yourself" → Repeat ad infinitum, which is not a good gameplay loop.

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Slaves probably should need to have had sex with you at least once before they fall in love.  Right now, you can get slaves to fall in love just by having them masturbate.  It's debatable which is more realistic—I've certainly felt like I was falling in love with a girl I had never had sex with—but it would be clearly better from a gameplay perspective to have more control over who becomes loyal and who becomes in love.  Right now, In Love is largely dominating Loyal status.

Wrong. Falling in love chance is only non zero if you had sex with the slave at least once or if you flattered the slave (sexy talk or romantic talk). The main problem is that DOM doesn't make the difference between sex with player and with other NPC. I need to correct that.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• I'm not sure exactly how personality trait(s) and moods affect the rate at which posing slaves generate "good pet" praise reasons, but the effect needs to be scaled back.  The range is currently huge, with some slaves almost letting you spam praise, and others posing half an hour (real time) before generating their first reason.  The overall balance of pose training is in a pretty good place at this point; I think this is the last significant issue remaining here.

This is a known problem. Will be fixed eventually. What about every 2 hours of posing? Or tied/furniture for bondage pet.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Friendship formation really needs some tuning.
  • Overall, friendship formation is happening too quickly and easily.  It's not uncommon for a new slave to leave the dungeon I captured her in already having picked three or four of her friends.  I'm not enslaving kindergarteners!  Slaves very occasionally forming an instant connection with a highly compatible match would be fine, but in general, it'd be both more realistic and better for gameplay if they need to spend a couple of days together before getting attached.
  • That said, some slaves need literally months together in game before they'll befriend one another.  That may or may not be realistic, but it's frustrating in terms of gameplay.  Perhaps the effect of personality needs to be toned down somewhat?
    • Probably the best solution here would be to implement some sort of active tools for the player to facilitate friendships between specific slaves.  I've discussed some ideas for this in previous posts.
  • We need a natural way(s) to end friendships (see Feature Ideas below).

There is now an option in the MCM to lower or increase the threshold for friends.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• • I'm finding that the current Jealousy/Rivalry mechanics basically function to discourage me from having sex with my slaves, which I don't think is intended design.  In practice, not wanting to sew disharmony in the ranks is trumping the desire to enjoy the company of my favourite pets.
    • If I could reliably get all of my companions to befriend one another, it would help a lot with this.  (See also my notes on Jealous/Unhappy moods below.)

There are toggles for turning off those moods in the MCM.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• The current state of Anger training is very frustrating.
  • Several factors in how the mechanic is currently constructed interact to create a potentially endless loop of anger:
    • Even at 100 Anger Training, slaves can still get Angry when you punish their friends, including scolding.
    • When slaves get Angry, they lose Anger Training.
  • Because they lose training, you can't ignore it when they get Angry.  You're basically forced to always punish Anger, or they'll just degrade over time.  
  • Because they never stop getting Angry, if you've got a large group of slaves you're training, you can end up in an endless loop of Anger punishments.  It does get better as training improves, fortunately, but it never completely goes away.  With lower training, it's all-consuming.
  • I don't understand why Anger training degrades when other stats don't.  Speaking strictly for myself, I don't find this mechanic to be fun.  Changing that would allow you to ignore it when slaves get Angry, which would break the loop.  Alternatively, changing the chance to get Angry at friends' punishments to zero at 100 Anger Training would leave the Anger loop for a while, but eventually, you'd be able to train your way out of it, and it would cease to be a concern.  
  • Additionally, the being angry reason seems to have a higher priority than it should.  i.e., It overrides/blocks other reasons that I wouldn't think it should.  I haven't been able to work out exactly what the order of operations is, because it seems somewhat inconsistent.  
    • Are there two different mechanics that are both being called "being angry"?  That would explain some of what I'm seeing.  If that's correct, maybe the more serious one should be renamed to something like "lashing out"?

Changed in next version. Especially broken slaves and above will not see their anger going down. Except for greed.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• The most frustrating thing in the current build, however, is the state of didnt_listen.  Fortunately, it's quite simple to fix: Punishing for didnt_listen really needs to give Submission Training.
  • Just as a general point about design philosophy, whatever stats are involved in the check for performing a behaviour need to be affected by punishment for failure to execute that behaviour. 
    • The current DoM build conforms to this philosophy for most things, but not for didnt_listen.  I'm not certain what the formula for the check is, but it seems to either be straight Submission or a combination of Submission and Respect.  But punishing for didnt_listen seems to only provide Respect Training.  So when you want to comfort or compliment your slaves, you'll frequently elicit didnt_listen responses, and punishing that defiance doesn't do anything to decrease the chance of them continuing to be defiant in the future. 

Done

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• The Jealous and Unhappy sub-moods of In Love status need to be tuned down significantly.
  • These moods are fantastic additions to DoM, but their effect is currently being greatly watered down by overuse.  These moods should be quite rare so that they feel truly dramatic when they do happen.  Right now, I'm finding most Loving slaves ordinarily spend about half their time either Jealous or Unhappy, and there's no practical way to keep them all happy.  The current implementation is making me callously indifferent to my slaves' moods instead of having the emotional impact we'd get with less frequent occurrence.  When my favourite slave becomes Unhappy, my response should be to exclaim in a panic, "Oh, no!  What can I do to make you feel better, sweetie?!" and drop everything to console her.  But because they're all moody most of the time, in practice, my response has evolved to simply be to shrug and carry on.  That's... disheartening. ?
    • Maybe @Farsh-nuke can figure out how to phrase this dialogue in no more than 80 characters?  Lol.
      • Listen to me, slave. → I have something important to tell you. → I know how lucky I am to have a slave as fucking sexy as you are, and I'm sorry that I've been spending most of my time with these other slaves recently, but it's just that they still need a lot of training, and you're already such a good girl.  I haven't forgotten about you, sweetheart, I'm just busy, but I promise to make time for you just as soon as the new girls are broken, okay?  
        • All kidding aside, maybe one thing that could be done is to have a proactive "I need to train some other slaves" sort of dialogue that makes a slave ignore "flirting with other slaves" for a set period of time?
    • Praising and complimenting slaves should probably have a bigger conciliatory impact on keeping them happy.  It seems like they mostly respond to sex, currently, but that's a sword that cuts both ways since it incites jealousy in other slaves, thus you end up playing whack-a-mole instead of Skyrim.
    • Maybe slaves should ignore flirtation with their friends?

Jealous/depressed chances are much lower in 3.0.2. You can also turn those moods off in the MCM.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Bugged Mechanics

• Slaves' "eyes are lighting up" at jewellery that was in their inventory at the time of enslavement immediately upon becoming slaves, before you even open the gift window.  I think this is happening when PAHE moves the items from their outfit to their inventory.

Maybe later

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Slaves are also "looking upset at" me taking non-equippable items they were holding for me.  It's not everything, and I haven't figured out the pattern yet, but I've seen it more than once.  The gift system needs to be set up to not interfere with pack mule slaves if possible; not all item types should be evaluated as gifts by slaves.
  • As far as I can tell, I think it might mostly be a matter of value.  I most frequently encounter it with crafting materials.  If I take a few Iron Ore from my pack slave, she doesn't mind, but if I take a stack of Dragon Bones, she gets upset.  I haven't been able to pin this down, though; it seems inconsistent.
  • You can also get into some serious script lag with this.  At one point, I wanted to change who was serving as my pack slave, so I had to move all my crafting components between slaves.  She didn't react at all immediately, but a few moments later, I got spammed with "looking upset" notifications, and her Anger Training went from 100 to 0 in an instant.  She was almost completely unresponsive for a time while overwhelmed by processing the scripts.
    • Not sure if it's relevant, but I was using the "Open Inventory" hotkey, and I only took a few items at a time because I was trying to avoid this problem with total value.  So I'd open inventory, take a few items, close inventory, repeat.  Again, no reaction until well after I'd finished.

This should only happen with jewelry items and rich clothings. I never had it with ore or ingot.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Not sure if this is DoM or if it's something @CliftonJD needs to address in PAHE core, but weapons are frequently (always?) getting duplicated during the enslavement process.  For NPCs who get their weapons from a levelled list, it seems like the list is being rolled separately for the duplication, so the extra weapon may or may not be identical to the first.

Skyrim...

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Similarly, I'm occasionally seeing slaves having a Greybeard's Hood (00036A45) showing up in their inventories during the cloning process.  Some slaves also get them stuck in their Outfit when sold through AYGAS.
  • Reportedly, this is an issue with Full Random NPC Pack.  I don't know if there's any way for PAHE/DoM to fix it.

Never saw that. But I replaced the female greybeard's hood with a pretty straw hat for you. It's in the attached file of this message. Install it after all your mods.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Angry slaves are less cooperative for most things, but they appear to be more cooperative when it comes to posing.  Is there a mistake in this formula?  I frequently see angry slaves hold a pose for an extended period of time, and then as soon as their mood shifts, they can't hold a pose for more than a few seconds.

It was a mistake in this formula and others. Angry slave stop pose depends on their anger training and scared slaves on their fear training, also shocked slaves should not be able to pose.

 

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Slaves sometimes revert immediately back to their posing or masturbating animation after leaving it, either by being disobedient or by being told to follow.  I suspect this might be lag related, as it seems to be most common when using the all slaves follow hotkey, but I've seen it happen less frequently after telling an individual slave to follow through dialogue or when the slave stops posing on her own, too.
  • When this happens, the slave is locked in the animation, but no longer has the "follow me" dialogue, so you need to give her another pose command before you can try to get her to follow you again.

Sounds like script lag to me. Try to order all of them to follow again with 3.0.2 it applies also to followers.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Removing straitjackets is counting as "humiliation by stripping".

Later

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Any time you open a slave's inventory through "You're going to wear this," it's playing a "making her wear humiliating clothes" notification, even if she plays a positive dialogue in response to the changes.  There doesn't seem to be any recognition of the different reactions to different clothing keywords, either.

WIP

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• The bug where posing slaves sometimes "think" they're bound, and generate Struggling reasons instead of Posture Correction is still there.  Hadn't seen it in a while until one recent slave.  No idea what causes it.  Usually, it can be fixed simply by tying and untying the slave, but in the past, I've had slaves who seemed to be permanently glitched.

I had the same with just PAHE. Restraints system doesn't like script lag.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• The maid package needs some work.  The current sweeping animation doesn't work with moving, but the slaves move around while playing it, which makes them look like figurines being slid around on ice.  They need to be locked in place while animating sweeping, then stop playing that animation when they move.
  • Not sure how 3.0.x changes affect this.

It should.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• I'm not sure exactly how this works under the bonnet, but all slaves pose/follow hotkeys are acting on slaves in other cells, which I don't think is desired behaviour.  I'd guess this has something to do with "daughter cells", but I don't know exactly how that stuff works.  It doesn't seem to be truly global—if I'm in Whiterun, my slaves won't come running from Lakeview Manor—but it definitely works through load doors.  If I leave some slaves posing in Dragonsreach, for example, and I go to the marketplace and use all slaves follow, they'll coming running right through the doors to Dragonsreach.  

Done. Same cell and less than 568 meters now. But don't cry if you loose your slaves.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Scolding should really create a "you already punished me for..." record like pain punishment does.  If you mostly use scolding instead of punishment for training, the current implementation generates some weird behaviour.  (See also this post.)
  • For one, if you only scold a slave, you'll never have any "you already punished me for..." record, so you'll never get any training bonus.  More importantly, though, if you use pain sparingly as I often do, you'll often have a really old "you already punished me for..." record, and so the training bonus will be applied quite haphazardly. 
    • Maybe days ago I punished a slave for being Angry, and since then, I've only used verbal correction.  When she gets angry today, and I scold her for it, I'll suddenly get "for being angry again" notifications, even though it's the first time in days.
  • Ideally, the text in the info pane would specify either "already punished" or "already scolded", but this is just cosmetic.  It should work the same either way.

Should already be in 3.0. If not try with 3.0.2

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• NPC budgets for AYGAS need some work:
  • Ainethach—Owner of Karthwastern—has a budget of 82.  He's probably the richest man in the Reach.
  • Jouane Manette—the second most powerful man in Rorikstead—also has a beggar's budget.  
  • I don't have a list, but it seems like many farmers have beggar's budgets despite owning productive farms.
  • It seems like most mill owners have beggar's budgets.
    • Gerdur is probably the richest person in Riverwood, but she has 83 gold to spend on slaves.
  • The NPC budget restrictions also affect their asking price if you want to buy a slave from them, so if a "poor" NPC gets a slave from AYGAS, they'll sell it to you for almost nothing.

In the todo list. Ransoming slaves to their family is also bugged, you can get an insane amount of money from it...

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• Not cleaning factions seems to be causing some issues.  I think some factions may need to always be cleaned, but I'm not sure exactly which.  Some data:
  • Vigilant Tyranus in Markarth often starts fights with my slaves.  As far as I can tell, he attacks first, not my girls.  The first time I saw this behaviour, it was a vampire slave, and I figured that was the cause, but I've since seen him attacking living slaves, too, so I don't know what the pattern is.
  • The Unbound Dremora for the Conjuration Ritual Spell quest goes ham on my girls, and bizarrely, the rest of the College then takes his side in the ensuing fight, which causes all manner of mayhem.  I had to park my retinue outside the college for that quest.
  • Reavers (kidnapped from Miraak's thralldom working on his temple if that matters) sold to AYGAS without being cleaned first become hostile to the PC.  Not sure what's going on with this one; maybe something to do with their spellbound thrall status prior to completing Cleansing the Stones; I didn't have problems with aggressive Reavers who weren't under Miraak's spell.  At any rate, cleaning factions before selling them reliably prevents the bug from my testing.
  • It seems like maybe Civil War factions should always be cleaned.
    • My Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile and become unable to enter dialogue if I attack a Stormcloak camp if I don't clean their factions first (and not just crime factions).  I have Civil War Aftermath installed if that could have any effect, but I wouldn't think it should.  Cleaning factions before attacking seems to reliably prevent this bug.
    • I've also had some rare glitches where my Stormcloak Soldier slaves turn hostile just randomly; I think it might have something to do with trying to escape.  Cleaning their factions seems to prevent issues.
      • EDIT: Okay, so I got this behaviour again in a more controlled setting where I could do some testing.  Cleaning their factions does not seem to reliably prevent this bug, so I'm not sure what's going on, but I guess this one isn't related to (not) cleaning factions.
        • I've only had it happen with Stormcloak Soldiers, but I can't say for sure whether it has anything to do with that.  
        • It seems to happen pretty consistently by loading a save with slaves bound.  The bound slaves have a high chance to bug out.
        • Saying they turn "aggressive" is only half right.  They show up as an enemy on the compass, combat music plays, and all my other slaves go into "ready for combat" mode.  It is impossible to open dialogue with the bugged slave, and when interacting with her, she just plays generic "attack" dialogues, e.g., "You'll never take me alive!"  But she doesn't actually attack, and other slaves/followers don't attack her.
        • Once they get into this state, I haven't found any way to fix them short of a full reclone.
        • It doesn't seem to happen to trained slaves, so right now, my best guess as to what's going on is some bug between trying to escape and being bound.  And anecdotally, it seems to have something to do with loading saves; I haven't had it happen without loading a save yet.
      • EDIT 2: I give up trying to figure out what's responsible for this for now.  Disabling "Alarm for runaway slaves" didn't have an effect in preventing it.  And in further testing, I managed to get the bug with another Stormcloak Soldier that I've had for quite a while and who's sufficiently trained to not be trying to escape.  So that rules out another hypothesis.  This save is a few hundred hours in at this point, and things are starting to get a little hinky; recloning a slave is spawning a bunch of duplicates and ghost slaves, too.  The only thing I can say for sure is that I've only observed this bug with Stormcloak Soldier slaves, but I have no idea why that would be at this point.  I'm going to start a new save, and I think I'll try doing the Civil War early this time, so we'll see if I get the same bug earlier in a save.

Todo list

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

•  It looks like you've added a GSPose as a possible cover self animation, but it isn't really working.  They get stuck in the animation and then ice skate around until you make them use another animation.  

I didn't get the skating slaves yet. I'll try.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

•  
•  
• •   Reveal hidden contents

     

    

• This awkward bondage animation definitely shouldn't be a "dance".
•  

Try to get its name from the logfile.

 

 

GreyBeardsFemaleHat.7z

Edited August 12, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[sidfu1]

good god my slaves hate the weather. don't know if it was cause 1 slave was getting pinged for all 3 or such but every 1 real world mi0n she crying about weather and no clothing.