Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls

[Antiope_Apollonia]

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Skyrim has 4 jewelry keywords  "ArmorJewelry", "JewelryExpensive", "ClothingJewelry" and "VendorItemJewelry" (in 30.0.2 for the last one).

This is wrong.  There is no ClothingJewelry keyword in Skyrim.  There's ClothingRing, ClothingCirclet, and ClothingNecklace.  This is the problem with how you're currently using keywords, at least as described.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Sexual consent is handled by PAHE.

But the notifications and reasons are handled by DoM, aren't they?  I think the problem is with the notifications and reasons, not the consent formula itself.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Those last two were for high anger training. So now you have to propose replacement for anger_training > 84 and 92

Ah, okay.  Weird that they have to do with Anger—the dialogue seems most related to submission.  But that explains why they were playing at weird times, since slaves often start with high anger training.  

 

Not sure exactly what replacement dialogues should do here.  Something like, "I'm getting better at keeping my cool, aren't I, Mistress?" maybe?

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Yes it is structural. But it's done anyway, at the price of many if-s

Probably it's better to just change it at the structural level than using a bunch of ifs.  I don't really use the other promises very much, so I don't remember their notifications.  Probably the "of" can be changed to "to" in the base structure, and they can all be written with infinitive verbs.  If you can post the list of promise notifications, I can help with this.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

In Cyrodiil maybe, not sure which one was prefered in Skyrim though.

The only other mod I use that I can think of that uses the word is SLTR, but I know SLTR has dialogues such as, "I like playing with myself, but I can't cum without permission."  So it uses cum for the verb.  @Farsh-nuke is right in a prescriptivist sense—many formal usage guides would suggest using it the way you did.  But I can say with high confidence that, as a descriptivist, the majority of lewd content actually uses the "cum" spelling for the verb as well as the noun.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Should be fixed wit hthe 4 reasons system.

Partly.  The overriding won't matter, but didnt_wait could still use a boost.  It provides very little training currently.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Wrong. Falling in love chance is only non zero if you had sex with the slave at least once or if you flattered the slave (sexy talk or romantic talk).

So I would say it should have to be sex, full stop, not sex or flattery.  It's nice to say nice things to my loyal slaves!  Like I said, I think you can make the realism case either way, but in gameplay terms, requiring sex at least once just gives the player better control over how they develop their slaves, and it's going to make the player experience better overall.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

The main problem is that DOM doesn't make the difference between sex with player and with other NPC. I need to correct that.

Fixing that would definitely be nice to cover all the bases, but it's not a huge deal, since there aren't a ton of ways for a slave to end up having sex with anyone else anyway, especially if they don't already have sexual experience.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

This is a known problem. Will be fixed eventually. What about every 2 hours of posing? Or tied/furniture for bondage pet.

Well, it seems to depend on personality, right?  For most slaves, the current rate is pretty good—like I said, pose training is in a really good place overall, so no big changes are needed here.  I'd say two hours would be way too long.  It's just occasional outlier slaves where it gets weird.  That's why I assume the issue is with the personality formula having too big an effect.  If you're doing pose training with a handful of slaves right now, the gameplay loop usually feels really good with the current design.  But once in a while, you get a slave with really extreme behaviour here, and that feels weird.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

There is now an option in the MCM to lower or increase the threshold for friends.

I'm not sure this is really a solution.  If one were to raise the threshold to solve the overall problem of friendship forming too easily, it would exacerbate the other problem of certain individual friendships being almost impossible to facilitate.  There are issues at both extremes, so one slider can't address both. 

 

It also doesn't address the need to end friendships naturally.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

There are toggles for turning off those moods in the MCM.

Sure, but I think with better balance, this feature would enhance the experience rather than degrading it.  

  

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Changed in next version. Especially broken slaves and above will not see their anger going down. Except for greed.

What about re-naming the punishment reason?  Is it possible to leave Being_angry for the mood, and add Lashing_out for the angry reactions to things you do?  Right now, they're indistinguishable, even though they behave differently.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

This should only happen with jewelry items and rich clothings. I never had it with ore or ingot.

I can fairly reliably reproduce this.  Try taking large volumes of items from them.  Especially expensive items.  I haven't figured out the exact mechanic, but it happens more with expensive things like ebony or dragon bone than it does with inexpensive things like iron and wolf pelts.  But if you take a bunch of stuff at once, you can experience this behaviour even with relatively inexpensive items.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Never saw that. But I replaced the female greybeard's hood with a pretty straw hat for you. It's in the attached file of this message. Install it after all your mods.

❤️ ROFL. ? Maybe invisible or non-equippable would be a better solution, though? 

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

It was a mistake in this formula and others. Angry slave stop pose depends on their anger training and scared slaves on their fear training, also shocked slaves should not be able to pose.

Sounds like it's partly an order of operations issue, then.  Angry mood should be an additional reason to stop posing on top of Submission/Pose training, but I guess it was overriding Submission/Pose training?  Also, I'd think the formula should look at Angry/Scared mood, not Anger/Fear training.  The training governs their chance to be in the mood, but it doesn't really make sense—logically or in gameplay—for Anger/Fear training to affect posing performance.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Sounds like script lag to me. Try to order all of them to follow again

It could well be script lag, but I'm very careful about keeping scripted mods to a bare minimum in my load order, and my game usually runs really smoothly, so if it's a problem for me, it's likely a problem for many users.  Ordering them all to follow again works, but sometimes you don't want them all to follow again, and you lose the "follow me" dialogue to get just the one slave.

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

with 3.0.2 it applies also to followers.

Do what now? ?

 

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Done

I've updated the Great Wall-o'-Text™ to reflect all these. ❤️ Looks like you've made quite a lot of progress on the first pass!  I'll try to keep updating that post as a sort of "Known Issues" list.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Antiope_Apollonia]

36 minutes ago, sidfu1 said:

good god my slaves hate the weather. don't know if it was cause 1 slave was getting pinged for all 3 or such but every 1 real world mi0n she crying about weather and no clothing.

I knew I was forgetting something!

 

Added under "Dialogue Conditions":

• Weather complaints really need a cooldown.  These would be some nice flavour if used sparingly, but if you have several slaves with you, it's currently a ceaseless cacophony. 
  • Maybe once every 3–6 in-game hours, with a bit of variation based on personality—Needy, maybe?—so all your slaves don't stay synchronised in their complaining?

Edited August 12, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

40 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I knew I was forgetting something!

 

Added under "Dialogue Conditions":

• Weather complaints really need a cooldown.  These would be some nice flavour if used sparingly, but if you have several slaves with you, it's currently a ceaseless cacophony. 
  • Maybe once every 3–6 in-game hours, with a bit of variation based on personality—Needy, maybe?—so all your slaves don't stay synchronised in their complaining?

I thought I did weather but I checked the first document I sent to TAK so I must have decided against it or forgotten about it. I'll add it to work on for document 3 lol.

I never thought I'd hear the words prescriptivist or descriptivist used in regards to cum and coming though. We clearly have different sources of erotica. (is that a lesbian thing? i.e. A cis man only has cum when he ejaculates but a cis woman can have multiple orgasms so cumming seems to make more intuitive sense. Of the two of us I would have assumed the expert on grammar would be the prescriptivist) 

Incidentally as I checked for the weather I see most of the lines I suggested relate to posing and ordering a slave to masturbate. I also included a few lines specific to different races though I'm not sure what made it through. If you're curious I also wrote slave bards, elders, vampires and alchemists to have specific lines.

I'll also admit that I do not understand the broken mood while it comes to writing dialogue so I kind of took it to mean like a shocked and stunned acceptance.

I can work on lines for friendship if you like. Feel free to suggest categories of lines slaves should respond with. You can dm me to avoid clogging up the thread.

My interpretation of anger training dialogue from what I read of TAK's personality modelling is that it's happy. Diaslogue that expreesses happiness at being a slave is going to be submissive in tone. Remember that in DOM submission relates solely to sexual submissiveness. 

Respect training is addressing the dominant properly.
Anger training is about being happy in a submissive place.
Fear training is about not being scared of what the dominant does.
Humiliation training is about no longer caring about the humiliating circumstances the Dominant places them in.
Submission Training is about gaining sexual pleasure from being dominated.

All five of those make a slave better behave like a consenting bdsm submissive and so all five of them sound submissive in a sense. That's my understanding.

[CliftonJD]

13 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I am of the opinion that the action is 'coming' and to 'come' but the produced content is 'cum'. I am not good on brevity and my grammar has never been great. I've been so busy writing line batch 2 I cannot remember the lines I wrote for line batch 1 lol I trust your criticism though and I knew/know your feedback is critical to fine tune what if any of what I wrote makes it into the mod. 

coming and to come are of different action than cumming when referring to cum

[Antiope_Apollonia]

53 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I thought I did weather but I checked the first document I sent to TAK so I must have decided against it or forgotten about it. I'll add it to work on for document 3 lol.

The current dialogues are fine.  They just play too frequently.

 

53 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Of the two of us I would have assumed the expert on grammar would be the prescriptivist) 

Either position taken to the extreme leads to absurdity.  Radical prescriptivism basically asserts that there is one correct way, and even if 90%+ of speakers use the language differently, they're just all wrong.  Accordingly, radical prescriptivism also denies the reality of language change.  But radical descriptivism basically asserts that no native speaker can ever be wrong in her use of the language, even if her idiosyncratic usage degrades her intelligibility with other users.  A sensible, moderate position is that there are rules to follow (prescriptively), but those rules are determined democratically by observing what most users actually say (descriptively).  

 

Keep in mind that, while professionally I edit academic papers, mostly in psychology and medicine, academically I'm a linguist.  You won't find many prescriptivist linguists.  Being a practitioner with a background in linguistics basically forces one to adopt the moderate position.

 

53 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

is that a lesbian thing?

I don't think so.  I can't speak as confidently to rates of prevalence in male–female content, but I can say for sure that "cum" as a verb is well-attested for males, too.  It's used as such in the aforementioned SLTR (and SLTR author @HexBolt8 is probably the best writer in Skyrim modding), for one, regardless of the genders involved.  You'll also simply find it in the dictionary.

 

53 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I'll also admit that I do not understand the broken mood while it comes to writing dialogue so I kind of took it to mean like a shocked and stunned acceptance.

Colloquially, I'd think of it as basically just having given up resistance.  The slave hasn't learnt to like her place yet—that's Loyal and Loving—but she's learnt to accept it as inevitable and to stop fighting it.  And that's quite consistent how it used to work in DoM, but recent versions have made it not really make sense.  I'm not sure what's intended here anymore; I don't know how much the radical change to this behaviour was intended or not.

 

53 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Submission Training is about gaining sexual pleasure from being dominated.

Per past comments from Troll, Submission training is about accepting the physical things the slave is subjected to.  That can be sexual, but it's not limited to sex.  And this is backed up by the mechanics of DoM, where Submission partially governs compliance with things like posing.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

33 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The current dialogues are fine.  They just play too frequently.

 

Either position taken to the extreme leads to absurdity.  Radical prescriptivism basically asserts that there is one correct way, and even if 90%+ of speakers use the language differently, they're just all wrong.  Accordingly, radical prescriptivism also denies the reality of language change.  But radical descriptivism basically asserts that no native speaker can ever be wrong in her use of the language, even if her idiosyncratic usage degrades her intelligibility with other users.  A sensible, moderate position is that there are rules to follow (prescriptively), but those rules are determined democratically by observing what most users actually say (descriptively).  

 

Keep in mind that, while professionally I edit academic papers, mostly in psychology and medicine, academically I'm a linguist.  You won't find many prescriptivist linguists.  Being a practitioner with a background in linguistics basically forces one to adopt the moderate position.

 

I don't think so.  I can't speak as confidently to rates of prevalence in male–female content, but I can say for sure that "cum" as a verb is well-attested for males, too.  It's used as such in the aforementioned SLTR (and SLTR author @HexBolt8 is probably the best writer in Skyrim modding), for one, regardless of the genders involved.  You'll also simply find it in the dictionary.

 

Colloquially, I'd think of it as basically just having given up resistance.  The slave hasn't learnt to like her place yet—that's Loyal and Loving—but she's learnt to accept it as inevitable and to stop fighting it.  And that's quite consistent how it used to work in DoM, but recent versions have made it not really make sense.  I'm not sure what's intended here anymore; I don't know how much the radical change to this behaviour was intended or not.

 

Per past comments from Troll, Submission training is about accepting the physical things the slave is subjected to.  That can be sexual, but it's not limited to sex.  And this is backed up by the mechanics of DoM, where Submission partially governs compliance with things like posing.

Eh, either way I haven't encountered cumming in the erotica and stuff I read but I trust your knowledge.

To be clear I thought in DOM Broken was a temporary mental state where a slave was optimally trainable.

I bow to your perspective on submission in DOM

[Antiope_Apollonia]

28 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

To be clear I thought in DOM Broken was a temporary mental state where a slave was optimally trainable.

That seems to be more or less how it's working now.  Like I said, it's unclear what the design intent is right now until Troll clarifies it.  Broken status has changed radically over recent versions.  Right now, Broken seems like a less catatonic Shocked, which doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.  It used to be sort of functionally like Loyal minus the affection, which comports better with colloquial use—think breaking a horse.

[TrollAutokill]

30 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Eh, either way I haven't encountered cumming in the erotica and stuff I read but I trust your knowledge.

To be clear I thought in DOM Broken was a temporary mental state where a slave was optimally trainable.

I bow to your perspective on submission in DOM

I never encountered "cum" in erotica books neither. Comic books maybe, but rather in the mouth of the abusers. So maybe for loving slaves it could work. Otherwise it sounds mostly porn to me, in a bad way... But that's just my interpretation.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Oh, apropos of cumming, @Jasmine92, the voicing for the climax dialogues is terrible, because the dialogues use a lot of repeated vowels to stretch out the words, and xVASynth doesn't seem to know how to interpret this.  Those lines really need some hand-crafting, probably.  If you want to try to fix it and need help, PM me, and I can work on IPA transcriptions for you.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

23 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

I never encountered "cum" in erotica books neither. Comic books maybe, but rather in the mouth of the abusers. So maybe for loving slaves it could work. Otherwise it sounds mostly porn to me, in a bad way... But that's just my interpretation.

As I've said, both spellings are accepted and technically interchangeable.  It's a difference in style and register rather than meaning.  My suggestion to use "cum" comes (oops) from a place of descriptive conventions to the end of stylistic consistency with other mods and similar media—not from "come" being wrong per se.

 

See also:

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/come-vs-cum-spelling-war

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/07/come-or-cum-we-ask-the-hard-questions-about-when-to-use-which-sexy-term.html

[Farsh-nuke]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

I never encountered "cum" in erotica books neither. Comic books maybe, but rather in the mouth of the abusers. So maybe for loving slaves it could work. Otherwise it sounds mostly porn to me, in a bad way... But that's just my interpretation.

I read a book where a lady's what-have-you was referred to as Cunny. It may be common American usage but it stuck with me because my understanding and perception is that 'cunt' is the word swear word there is and cunny is that but cutified in into 'little talk' for want of a better phrase. 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

21 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

cutified in into 'little talk' for want of a better phrase. 

diminutive form

[InsanityFactor]

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

So I would say it should have to be sex, full stop, not sex or flattery.  It's nice to say nice things to my loyal slaves!  Like I said, I think you can make the realism case either way, but in gameplay terms, requiring sex at least once just gives the player better control over how they develop their slaves, and it's going to make the player experience better overall.

I disagree, this was a discussion a while back. The intention of the flattery thing was to give the player greater control, not less.

 

There's 6 options in the dialogue right now for flattery and insults. 1. refers to complementing how sexy they are, 2. refers to how much you want to kiss them, 3. is a platonic "I'm so proud of you", 4. is a disparaging sexual comment, and 5. and 6. are disparaging non-sexual comments ("I should feed you to the skeevers" and "I should sell you to a smelly old orc")

 

Only 1 and 2 count as the kind of flattery that triggers an in-love chance. 3 flatters them, but does not trigger an in-love chance, so use that one to your heart's content if you want to flatter them without it being sexual. I honestly don't know if 4 triggers in-love as well, I don't think it does.

 

I think it makes perfect sense because if you say things to a slave like "I want to kiss you" and "You're so sexy" it makes sense that it could move a loyal slave to being in-love. It's not as effective as sex, but it just makes the probability higher than zero, which is sensible.

 

If you don't want a slave to fall in love with you, don't be flirty and don't fuck them. I think that's all reasonable. I like this feature because it actually allows you to create a slave that asks you to have sex with them for the very first time, which I think is really cool. It takes a lot longer, but being patient with it creates a rare moment of intimacy with a slave, I thought you of all people would understand the value of this 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

32 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

3 flatters them, but does not trigger an in-love chance,

That's not correct.  It counts as praise, not flattery.

 

32 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

I think it makes perfect sense because if you say things to a slave like "I want to kiss you" and "You're so sexy" it makes sense that it could move a loyal slave to being in-love. It's not as effective as sex, but it just makes the probability higher than zero, which is sensible.

Like I said, I think you can make the argument both ways with regard to what makes sense.  I compliment my platonic friends all the time, including going so far as to tell them they're beautiful.  I also platonically kiss my friends all the time, although I'll grant that that one in particular doesn't sound very platonic.  (That said, what's wrong with a little mock-flirting among friends?)  My motivation isn't about what makes sense, though, rather than what makes good gameplay. 

 

I basically want to say flattering things to any slave I like enough to keep.  But I don't generally have sex with all of them.  Since the other mechanics around In Love status are all connected with sex, I don't really see why—in terms of gameplay—you'd want slaves who you're not having sex with to be In Love with you instead of Loyal.  

 

32 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

I like this feature because it actually allows you to create a slave that asks you to have sex with them for the very first time, which I think is really cool.

Fair enough.

 

32 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

It takes a lot longer, but being patient with it creates a rare moment of intimacy with a slave, I thought you of all people would understand the value of this 

Maybe the reason I've never felt drawn to that is that all the dialogue still plays on the weird "lesbian initiation" trope instead of sounding natural.  I've made suggestions to improve that dialogue a few times in the past, but I've never seen a response.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[InsanityFactor]

34 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I basically want to say flattering things to any slave I like enough to keep.  But I don't generally have sex with all of them.  Since the other mechanics around In Love status are all connected with sex, I don't really see why—in terms of gameplay—you'd want slaves who you're not having sex with to be In Love with you instead of Loyal. 

 

34 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Fair enough.

That's pretty much it.

 

Additionally though, I think it improves a preexisting chance as well, so flattery and sex is faster than just one or the other. 

 

Flattery without sex is how you would approach a somewhat consensual prelude to sexual interaction. Flattery + sex is how you show your sexual affection, thereby improving the in-love chance. 

Sex without flattery is just rude I guess.

[wulfy1]

Hi all,

 

Everything seems to be working really well.  Maybe a little too well, and combined with my greed I find that even using HSH I have run out of slots to store my slaves.  I can of course sell my slaves to friends, wives with AYGAS etc but I was wondering if anyone had a storage solution that I am not aware of.  128 slaves in PAHE does give me some lag etc, but not so much that I could not add more.  I knew it wouldn't work, but I added a second PAHE install to test and see if I could get a second 128 slaves (of course that didn't work).  I doubt it would work any differently with HSH.  I even considered renumbering FormIDs in a second PAHE install and see if that works (I know it probably wont since scripts would be shared etc).  Anyway, does anyone have a creative slave storage solution outside of PAHE/HSH/AYGAS?  I also have display model but I haven't really played with it too much but I like slaves that move around and are interactive.

 

Thanks,

~Wulf

[Antiope_Apollonia]

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Maybe the reason I've never felt drawn to that is that all the dialogue still plays on the weird "lesbian initiation" trope instead of sounding natural.  I've made suggestions to improve that dialogue a few times in the past, but I've never seen a response.

I found a few of my older posts to this effect:

 

On 11/29/2021 at 10:53 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"I'm so happy you initiated me to lesbian sex, Mistress!"  This is awkward.  Maybe something like, "I'm so happy you showed me the pleasure of a woman's touch, Mistress!"

On 2/3/2022 at 12:06 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I thought you already said you were changing this, but we're still getting the awkward "I am so happy you initiated me to lesbian sex, Mistress" (Any of these would work with the "I'm so happy..." form, but I've added some alternatives in case you decide to include more than one for variety.)

• "I'm really grateful that you showed me the pleasures of a woman's touch, Mistress."
• "I'm so glad you were my first time with another woman, Mistress."
• (Maybe a bit corny, but hey) "Thank you for showing me the joy of Sapphic love, Mistress."

On 7/12/2022 at 4:44 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I think the way it is now is mostly pretty good.  I stand by my earlier suggestions regarding changing the wording, but structurally, I think it's well-designed in its current incarnation.  I would just encourage moving away from the "lesbian initiation" language to something more natural along the lines of, "I'm so glad that you were my first time with another woman/girl, Mistress," or "Thank you for showing me the pleasure of a woman's touch, Mistress."  (I posted a whole list of ideas a few months ago, but I don't know where it's buried in this thread now.)  That whole "lesbian initiation" thing is evidently a tropey porn kink thing, but it's really not natural at all—after all this time, it's still jarring every time I hear it.

All the related dialogues are similar.  I think virginal Loving slaves currently say something like, "I would be proud if you initiated me to lesbian pleasures, Mistress!" instead of something more natural like, "I would be proud if you would be my first time with a girl, Mistress!" or "I would be honoured if you would show me the pleasure of a woman's touch, Mistress!"

 

---

 

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Flattery without sex is how you would approach a somewhat consensual prelude to sexual interaction. Flattery + sex is how you show your sexual affection, thereby improving the in-love chance. 

Sex without flattery is just rude I guess.

I'd contend that it's often rather different in submissive relationships, even if it's consensual domme/sub short of actual slavery.  I'm a big fan of the tenderness, nurturing, intimacy side of B&D, but many prefer a more aloof relationship.  This is the source of my ongoing struggle with SLTR, which originally portrayed the domme/sub relationship as completely devoid of tenderness, flattery, etc.  I've convinced @HexBolt8 to incorporate a bit of that, at this point, but it's still much less than if I were writing it myself.  For me, the nurturing side of the relationship is one of the most alluring things about B&D.

 

That said, this is kind of my point.  I like flattery and tender words, and I'd prefer to be able to use them without it inevitably leading to In Love status for gameplay reasons.  I can understand your perspective here, too, though.  The M–F dialogues are probably better than the F–F equivalents—I've always felt the dialogues in this area were the weakest writing in all of DoM, so it'd never have occurred to me that someone would want to play around generating them.  

 

Another consideration here, though, is that these flattery dialogues are also valuable training tools.  If you can't use the sexy talk flattery with a slave, and you aren't having sex with her, then you're really limited for training Submission—once the slave has learnt to pose, you're basically left with just masturbation.  The tender words flattery is also good for training Anger. 

 

Maybe once the moodiness of Loving slaves and the formation of friendships get tuned better, however, having all your companions fall in love will feel better than it does now, and the incentive to want some slaves to stay Loyal will be alleviated, rendering this relatively moot.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

40 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

 

I found a few of my older posts to this effect:

 

 

---

 

I'd contend that it's often rather different in submissive relationships, even if it's consensual domme/sub short of actual slavery.  I'm a big fan of the tenderness, nurturing, intimacy side of B&D, but many prefer a more aloof relationship.  This is the source of my ongoing struggle with SLTR, which originally portrayed the domme/sub relationship as completely devoid of tenderness, flattery, etc.  I've convinced @HexBolt8 to incorporate a bit of that, at this point, but it's still much less than if I were writing it myself.  For me, the nurturing side of the relationship is one of the most alluring things about B&D.

 

That said, this is kind of my point.  I like flattery and tender words, and I'd prefer to be able to use them without it inevitably leading to In Love status for gameplay reasons.  I can understand your perspective here, too, though.  The M–F dialogues are probably better than the F–F equivalents—I've always felt the dialogues in this area were the weakest writing in all of DoM, so it'd never have occurred to me that someone would want to play around generating them.  

 

Another consideration here, though, is that these flattery dialogues are also valuable training tools.  If you can't use the sexy talk flattery with a slave, and you aren't having sex with her, then you're really limited for training Submission—once the slave has learnt to pose, you're basically left with just masturbation.  The tender words flattery is also good for training Anger. 

 

Maybe once the moodiness of Loving slaves and the formation of friendships get tuned better, however, having all your companions fall in love will feel better than it does now, and the incentive to want some slaves to stay Loyal will be alleviated, rendering this relatively moot.

I feel like this is solvable with more actual dialogue options. If you want more flirty dialogue that boosts stats without causing in love status that doesn't sound like the most unreasonable thing in the world and like you said there is a gameplay reason. It doesn't necessarily have to be either/or

[Clea Strange]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

That's not correct.  It counts as praise, not flattery.

 

 

I disagree with that I see number 3 as flattery

[Antiope_Apollonia]

34 minutes ago, Clea Strange said:

I disagree with that I see number 3 as flattery

Well, the game considers it to be praise.  The other two add to the flattery counter on the slave's stats; that one adds to the praise counter.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[AnonymousUser007]

4 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I read a book where a lady's what-have-you was referred to as Cunny. It may be common American usage but it stuck with me because my understanding and perception is that 'cunt' is the word swear word there is and cunny is that but cutified in into 'little talk' for want of a better phrase. 

I feel legally obligated to inform you that cunny is slang for "cute and funny" in some circles.  =

[AnonymousUser007]

Love the mod and appreciate the constant updates. Just installed 3.0.2, whenever I select the "I guess the whip is the only way to teach you!" option it starts a sex scene, is this intentional? I unfortunately do not have enough lesbian animations to see if it is using the aggressive or consensual animations. Speaking of, if there are any recommendations for lesbian animations I am in the market for them.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I feel like this is solvable with more actual dialogue options. If you want more flirty dialogue that boosts stats without causing in love status that doesn't sound like the most unreasonable thing in the world and like you said there is a gameplay reason. It doesn't necessarily have to be either/or

Sometimes less is more, and Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance.  Anything that adds more complexity to a mod already as complex as DoM needs to have a very strong justification.  I'm happy to shelve this for now and see how things feel once Unhappy/Jealous are better tuned, especially if we can improve Friendship, too. 

 

Maybe that will be sufficient to negate the need for changes in this area, but if not, I think the simplest solution would be a single dialogue that toggles to the effect of explicitly declaring one's "interest" in the slave.  I'm not really sure how you'd write that in the context of a slave–owner relationship, but I'm sure we could come up with something.  Although maybe less realistic than creating two sets of flirt dialogues, it's definitely a better solution mechanically.  If necessary, there could be a second dialogue to the effect of, "we should just be friends," or they could even work together like a toggle. 

 

As a general design rule, I don't think you really want variety in the PC's dialogue—simplicity is better.  In a roleplaying game, I'd always treat PC dialogue as being just a frame that the player can embellish as appropriate.  

 

But anyway, like I said, I'd just shelve this for now, and we can revisit it after some tuning has been implemented and see if it's still necessary.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

22 minutes ago, AnonymousUser007 said:

Speaking of, if there are any recommendations for lesbian animations I am in the market for them.

Billyy's are easily the best on the market.  Leito's are also noteworthy, although there aren't very many in that pack.  There aren't really any good aggressive lesbian animations available currently—I think maybe there's one in the Psyche animation pack.  Billyy is, allegedly, working on some bound and aggressive lesbian animations, but it's been several months without any sign of progress, so I don't know what the current status is there.  The squeaky wheel gets the grease, though, so if folks are interested in seeing such animations, you should express your interest in his support thread.  Mostly, it's people talking about creature animations, so I guess that's what he invests his effort into catering to.

[Farsh-nuke]

PAH and DOM could definitely benefit from a recommended animations guide so that there's a commonality to what animations players are likely to have and so newbies understand how to make it work.

4 hours ago, AnonymousUser007 said:

I feel legally obligated to inform you that cunny is slang for "cute and funny" in some circles.  =

In the erotica a character was talking about sticking his cock in another character's cunny so I doubt that was the meaning there lol