toys Toys&Love LE & SE

Lula Luv · May 1, 2022

11 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

@GerdWagner @gregaaz @Talesien & Everyone Interested....

This is what we've got coming for Stripping next release.

I'm hoping I've found the right balance between simplification, ease of use, and enough functionality

Been testing with 2 different versions of TAWOBA, and some other stuff, including toys from Toys of course, and SOS. Does all I've found it needs to do

This works for NPCs too, and is integrated with the Toys "Phasing into Oblivion" (aka hiding) feature that's been in play for a long time

There's a few slots, like weapons and shield, that are not in the UI, but does not mean they don't strip, it just means you should not be able to NOT strip them

There's also a few slots that I don't think anyone would ever strip, and one case where it would be problematic to allow it

Sheeesh what a pain in the ass this has been But Nocturnal does teach us that pain is pleasure.

Speed for scene startup is faster now, even though its doing twice as much work, because Stripping and Hiding (and some other things now), have become threaded. This means there's no waiting for stripping to complete.

The pics show the defaults, with my innocent virgin wearing some TAWOBA (remastered edition from SunJeong) and 3 Toys from the Curio Toy Box.

So tell me if anything problematic stands out for you. Course till you get your hands on it for real, its hard to know.

Well, I would still be missing slot 47 (Capes and other Stuff on the Back) and maybe 42 (Circles, Headdresses and half Helmets)).

*VirginMarie* · May 1, 2022

33 minutes ago, GerdWagner said:

Well, I would still be missing slot 47 (Capes and other Stuff on the Back) and maybe 42 (Circles, Headdresses and half Helmets)).

Ok I will add 47... that was a dumb oversight.

42 was intentional because I figured its all jewelry and you'd never wanna strip it. You think 42 is needed?

*Talesien* · May 1, 2022

45 minutes ago, GerdWagner said:

Well, I would still be missing slot 47 (Capes and other Stuff on the Back) and maybe 42 (Circles, Headdresses and half Helmets)).

I second Gerd in this, 42 and 47 should be added.
Take: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61202 for example it adds the Obi (that ribbon/fan embelishement at the back) to slot 47, now that I would like to hide in this case, so ... maybe not an argument for adding 47, but there might well be other cases. OTOH 42 has that beautiful Kanzashi (the hair/head adornment), which I set to non-strip in Sexlab.

Besides, 42 is the answer, so has to be included on that ground alone.

*Talesien* · May 1, 2022

23 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Ok I will add 47... that was a dumb oversight.

42 was intentional because I figured its all jewelry and you'd never wanna strip it. You think 42 is needed?

Ok I'm confused now, I understood that the not included slots (like Weapons, shields) will always get stripped, but now it sounds like the opposite is true?
At any rate, I stand with 42 being the answer.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Talesien

*VirginMarie* · May 1, 2022

10 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Ok I'm confused now, I understood that the not included slots (like Weapons, shields) will always get stripped, but now it sounds like the opposite is true?
At any rate I stand with 42 being the asnwer.

There's 2 categories of not in the UI....

slots getting stripped, but not in the UI since you should NOT be able to disable their stripping (so they are silently just getting stripped)
slots NOT getting stripped cuz I said screw it... nobody would wanna strip this, or its a bad idea to let stripping of it (example 61)

But I'm adding 42 and 47.

47 was just an oversight and is totally needed.

42 not for you, it was already NOT stripping that, but I think the half helmet type accessories should be optional

Oh and yes... 42... is the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

Edited May 1, 2022 by VirginMarie

*Talesien* · May 1, 2022

6 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Oh and yes... 42... is the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

I see you are well versed in ... umh 'classic literature'. Good to know. ^^

*VirginMarie* · May 1, 2022

Just now, Talesien said:

I see you are well versed in ... umh 'classic literature'. Good to know. ^^

Hell no! I'm not a nerd. This information was given to me by my husband, who is definitely a nerd.

Lula Luv · May 1, 2022

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Ok I will add 47... that was a dumb oversight.

42 was intentional because I figured its all jewelry and you'd never wanna strip it. You think 42 is needed?

Great
42: Mostly they are Circlets but also hats or half helmets, etc. are used for this. (already in vanilla Skyrim)

*VirginMarie* · May 1, 2022

@ Everyone - Seeking Feedback

Handling of Toy Inappropriate Love Scenes

The following is the plan for Toys&Love to deal with Toy Inappropriate Love Scenes. Now that Bondage and Love Scenes are integrated in the same framework, we can do this really well, and FAST, without breaking things. So it's time to do it!

Definitions

Toy Inappropriate Love Scenes = A toy is blocking actions of the love scene. It's not appropriate for the scene. This can be visual only, or related to keywords on toys such as "Toys_BlockVaginal" (the toy protects you from lost vaginal virginity)
Phase into Oblivion = The toy hides. Technically it removes and goes back on after. However Toy Story lore teaches us that these toys have a magical phasing property. The toy is phased into another reality, but still there protecting (we want to have fun with a variety of scenes, but still be able to protect virginity etc.)
Exclude Scene = A scene excluded from being played due to being toy Inappropriate

Toys&Love will use the combination of these two options... Phasing and/or Excluding Scenes, and give MCM settings to allow much user choice.

This will NOT require any special animations designed specifically for wearing wrist binding toys.

What's happening in the current version?

Toys&Love is Phasing all the toys that are sometimes inappropriate. No selective Phasing. No Excluding. This gets us by, but we can do better and have choice.

Toy Type --> Exclude Scene or Phase Condition/Tags

Anal --> Exclude/Phase if Anal (tag)
Vaginal --> Exclude/Phase if Vaginal

Pelvis --> Exclude/Phase if Vaginal or Anal

Mouth --> Exclude/Phase if Oral, Blowjob, Cunnilingus

Torso & Breasts --> MCM - Phase on/off - If set off, still Phase if Boobjob. No cases of Exclude
Feet --> MCM - Phase on/off. If set off, still Phase if Footjob, Feet. No cases of Exclude

Wrists --> Always Phase. No cases of Exclude (these are arm binding toys, not to be confused with "Arms" toys)

MCM Settings

Exclude Scene or Phase Toy (Slider 0-100)

0 = Exclude Scenes meeting above conditions
- If this results in less than Minimum Scenes setting, Phase instead
100 = Phase inappropriate toy into oblivion. The toy is still "protecting"
- In rare caes the toy stays on if mod has used restrictive keyword for prevention of hiding/storing. Mod author choice
Any number between 0 and 100 = Random Chance of either Excluding or Phasing

Minimum Scenes for Exclude (Slider 1 - 50)

Min scenes to allow scene exclusion
If less scenes available, Toys reverts to Phasing the inappropriate toy
You are choosing realism versus seeing repetitive scenes

Phase Torso & Breasts (on/off)

If set off, still Phase if Boobjob. No cases of Exclude

Phase Feet (on/off)

If set off, still Phase if Footjob, Feet. No cases of Exclude

*Talesien* · May 2, 2022

While this all sounds good on first read (need to mull it over more), the main question that comes to mind. How do you know if an animation is inappropriate, given how spurious and incomplete many animations are tagged.

*VirginMarie* · May 2, 2022

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

While this all sounds good on first read (need to mull it over more), the main question that comes to mind. How do you know if an animation is inappropriate, given how spurious and incomplete many animations are tagged.

As the saying goes... Garbage In --> Garbage Out. If the tags are wrong, Toys can't get it right. So thanks for asking.... this does get me thinking.

My greatest fear about this is that Toys will be perceived as broken, rather than people realizing the tags are wrong. That's why its now displaying the tags in the console, so you can easily look to see

This is why such feature should have some useful options. Starting with, not being forced to use it. But the approach is to give options so you are less likely to end up not wanting to use it.

You have the option for it to work just like it is right now, where it's phasing all toys that can be inappropriate as the "safest", and never excluding scenes. It does not say in the writeup above since I've not figured out how to approach it yet. Could be just a MCM toggle or maybe a hotkey.

Some people prefer realism over variety of scenes that can play. However toys worn giving consequences, actually causes more variety in another fashion, which is what I'm finding while testing it now. I'm seeing it pick alternate scenes, that are lost is the mass of scenes when it can randomly pick anything. Then when I change what's worn, it varies again.

So ok, there's that but at the cost of sometimes the tag data is wrong, so you get some loving penetrating through a chastity belt etc. At least the lore says toys can do that, they are phasing toys! The ones from SLaVE that Nocturnal puts on you, they do this intentionally!
You can set a minimum number of scenes before it reverts to phasing. If you keep that high, then the chance of a scene that is mis-tagged being used becomes rarer. But if you set that low... more realism, higher chance of mis-tagged scenes. You can disable those bad scenes for the next time (would be nice if you could disable right on the fly)
What we are not doing is messing with scenes for arm binding and yokes, where its picking from very few available scenes... like other mods have tried. This is where you get into the most trouble. Those toys will always just phase

There's the question also of... how many of these scenes are actually tagged wrong? Sometimes we assume that's the problem, but I had a scene today called something like "thigh loving"... so while it looked to me like it was vaginal and aligning too low, the animation is really meant to NOT be vaginal, and thus working correctly and tagged correctly. I went into this thinking that tags are often badly done, but I'm finding this is not usually the case. Being a bit selective of what you install helps too. Id say the majority are very well tagged.

Edited May 2, 2022 by VirginMarie

Azroq · May 2, 2022

When i Start a NEW Game ( and i have started a lot in the last 2 Days) i get stuck in the Prison Cell after Char Creation (use Alternate Start LAL)

Wanted to try Whorecrux and came so on the Toys series it did sound Interesting.

Now after trying to Make a Char, changing Load Order.i did the Mod setup/reload the Save and than Spamming THE MAIDEN has escaped hundred of time

after that i get dragd somewhere Dark,,killed or Gamed Crashes, and all starts from the Beginning

In between i get some Toys equipt since They show up in Toys&Love i thought it my this mod not really that Sure.

Slave also had a problem where it randomly fired the quest when i reloaded the save, and how i Faild something bla bla with Nocturnal or so and than some rnd aktion

so i Put that on Pause in the McM(if that even helps)

And all that while i want to Setup the MCMs for the Mods in the Prison Cell Most Mods are not even active at that Point and no Shouts at that point.

I add the Papyrus maybe that will help

Papyrus.0.log

Edited May 2, 2022 by Azroq

*VirginMarie* · May 2, 2022

6 hours ago, Azroq said:

When i Start a NEW Game ( and i have started a lot in the last 2 Days) i get stuck in the Prison Cell after Char Creation (use Alternate Start LAL)

Wanted to try Whorecrux and came so on the Toys series it did sound Interesting.

Now after trying to Make a Char, changing Load Order.i did the Mod setup/reload the Save and than Spamming THE MAIDEN has escaped hundred of time

after that i get dragd somewhere Dark,,killed or Gamed Crashes, and all starts from the Beginning

In between i get some Toys equipt since They show up in Toys&Love i thought it my this mod not really that Sure.

Slave also had a problem where it randomly fired the quest when i reloaded the save, and how i Faild something bla bla with Nocturnal or so and than some rnd aktion

so i Put that on Pause in the McM(if that even helps)

And all that while i want to Setup the MCMs for the Mods in the Prison Cell Most Mods are not even active at that Point and no Shouts at that point.

I add the Papyrus maybe that will help

Papyrus.0.log 20.04 MB · 1 download

Your log shows the game is not playable. You have a massive number of errors. Not much could work properly with this setup. Has little to do with Toys&Love.

over 42k Error messages
over 20K Warning messages

That's in 15mins of play time. You may have set a record . Works out to about 70 error/warning message per second. Skyrim is spending all of its CPU time just writing to your log

The quantity of errors is too great to try and diagnose
Toys is not reporting any errors. This is because Toys is not able to initialize during the mass spamming of errors. Log does show it tried
Toys is not running at all, thus nothing related to it can work, including SLaVE or Whorecrux

Normally I'd ask if the Toys MCM - Setup tab - installation Test, is a pass or fail when you run it... but I can predict the answer: It will fail.

Your objective should be to fix your installation, and get that test to pass. Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed

Recommend you chop your mod list down to minimum requirements, focusing on just Toys first, then add things only once the test is passing.

You could check these for detailed help...

Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed

Golden Rule

SE versus AE Version Trap

Edited May 2, 2022 by VirginMarie

BDNelson · May 2, 2022

I want to thank you for telling me about the "update FNIS behavior" button and it's use. It has made a huge difference in my game. I'm going to have to do a complete rebuild of my mods now and I will be installing your new mod set. I did not use this button when I installed any of my animations or FNIS mods, D'oH! That was a BIG Homer Simpson moment!

What exact version of BodySlide do you recommend? I am currently running BS 5.52, is that good enough? My game, in case you don't remember me, is SSE 1.5.97 with skse 2.0.29 and Vortex.

Thanks for your WONDERFUL mods!!!

*VirginMarie* · May 2, 2022

2 hours ago, BDNelson said:

What exact version of BodySlide do you recommend?

Just always use latest, plus make sure its requirements are latest. I test with latest.

14 minutes ago, leesjig said:

When is the best time to grab the log.

When an issue can be re-created and captured in the log.

Based on the things you list... you don't have an installation issue, thus we don't need to see a log. Each of your thingies have solutions below.

14 minutes ago, leesjig said:

The Christmas hat gets stuck on her head

That's what happens if you use the feature off season! Just kidding.

Its probably working as intended. Hat is removed using MCM. Read MCM tool tips. You have Christmas hat in both SLaVE and Toys Workshop, and if you don't read those and use right MCM settings, hat won't behave. Hat is not a toy, and has nothing to do with Toys.

14 minutes ago, leesjig said:

she gets stuck walking fast after a speed buff

known issue, got better in last release. More info and Solution... Speed Buff/Debuff Broken

14 minutes ago, leesjig said:

after removing a toy that put her crawl position...she stays in crawl position

Toys MCM - Debug Tab - Player Reset will fix.

BDNelson · May 2, 2022

Thank you, I just checked that, I'm up to date. Have a GREAT day!!!

*Talesien* · May 2, 2022

18 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

There's the question also of... how many of these scenes are actually tagged wrong? Sometimes we assume that's the problem, but I had a scene today called something like "thigh loving"... so while it looked to me like it was vaginal and aligning too low, the animation is really meant to NOT be vaginal, and thus working correctly and tagged correctly. I went into this thinking that tags are often badly done, but I'm finding this is not usually the case. Being a bit selective of what you install helps too. Id say the majority are very well tagged.

Hard to say, newer packs seem to be better tagged than some old ones, but even if they are tagged more or less correctly you often need to check a number of tags. Like I was once trying to disable all foot fetish animations. To find them (almost all) it required Feet, Foot, foot fetish, footfetish, footjob IIRC. Can be done, it's just hella annoying.

*VirginMarie* · May 3, 2022

2 hours ago, Talesien said:

Hard to say, newer packs seem to be better tagged than some old ones, but even if they are tagged more or less correctly you often need to check a number of tags. Like I was once trying to disable all foot fetish animations. To find them (almost all) it required Feet, Foot, foot fetish, footfetish, footjob IIRC. Can be done, it's just hella annoying.

Yup its not gonna be puuuurrrrfect, but its working. Working really well.

Edited May 3, 2022 by VirginMarie

mercplatypus · May 3, 2022

14 minutes ago, leesjig said:

Sorry not much feedback here, I've been out several months playing Elden Ring, I'm just now upgrading to Toys&Love. Interesting to try out, and really looking forward to the phasing toys.

So on this new start I'm finally going to delete DD, DCL, parasite, hormones, devious cydna. I'm up to 320 mods so trying to get back to 300 mods. I'll let you know after 10-20 game days how smooth game is running if any. I would really like to get rid of MME too...So wanted to ask, need a toy harness that fucks and milks at the same time, No I'm kidding. So will the new phasing toys be phasing in and out like the curio belt does some time, that will be really nice to see. All the settings you got in the mcm for stripping and phasing toys. Really cool, haven't even seen the love scenes you got going now...using billyy's/anubs animations right? awesome.

The most fun I have with Toys is crank up toyfull temptation to bout 35% chance when entering a large cave system like bleak falls barrow, cause a lot of traps in caves...just to see all the toys that cycle on her body. This will be nice with phasing toys. Just throw in some toys that morph her ass and boobs...will be set.

Thanks to you VirginMarie and toys team for always keeping skyrim fun to play.

The prepackaged animation pack is Billy's but any SLAL pack can be used and accessed. If you are running without sexlab then you'll want to disable the SLAL pack's esp. For critters you'll need wildlife as well.

*VirginMarie* · May 3, 2022

6 hours ago, leesjig said:

So on this new start I'm finally going to delete DD, DCL, parasite, hormones, devious cydna.

6 hours ago, leesjig said:

need a toy harness that fucks and milks at the same time, No I'm kidding.

I'm too sweet and innocent to even understand.

6 hours ago, leesjig said:

So will the new phasing toys be phasing in and out like the curio belt does some time, that will be really nice to see. All the settings you got in the mcm for stripping and phasing toys. Really cool, haven't even seen the love scenes you got going now...using billyy's/anubs animations right? awesome.

In Toy Story you learn that the toys have a magical property called Phasing. They become unsolid but still protect sometimes in that state. They Phase Into Oblivion. For some reason the standing stone you used is called the Phasing Stone.

Phasing just means the toys hide (technically they go off at scene start, and back on at scene end). This is not new. Toys has been doing it in all the scenes all along. But for the new Love Scenes, which you have not seen yet, the hiding (phasing) gets much smarter and selective next release. Toys phase when they need to based on tags used by the scene that is playing. Combined with that, scenes can be excluded from use due to toys you wear, as an alternative to phasing. The toy stays on, and we don't play that inappropriate scene due to a toy. Can't stick that thing in there! I'm protected!

No, there's no new toys that visually phase. But the ones that do, they are symbolic and tied to the "lore".

Deadly Kitten · May 4, 2022

Gonna be honest, when it comes to Toys and the like, i mostly prefer realism. But some mods (amputator framework or the crawling/all fours run animations) just kinda pop me out of the immersion. My introduction to H-games was pretty much DD and skyrim, and i played with some start that made you tied up and had to rely on struggling for an unholy amount of time to get reasonably free, then you still had to tackle the restraints requiring keys.

This is just a fancy way of saying that I'm happy with having Toys and the like in an animation, as long as it makes some semblance of sense. But that would require a manual blocklist of literally every animation made, and i have way too many SLAL packs.

If i had the choice, i don't want toys spontaneously removed. Would rather just have animation filters, though sometimes this gets confused in gay/lesbian animations i think. But then there's the worry about how to handle things if an animation is called but that animation has blocked tags.

Saw some mod a while back that exhaustively adjusted a bunch of tags for animation packs, but i can't remember what it was.

I think dcur removed my virgin chastity belt when i didn't expect it, and it even ate one of my keys to do so? ( I updated a few mods and turns out a few of them didn't get enabled in my load order and MCM menues are broken and maybe my save is borked , so need to start a new game soon, and might migrate to SE when i do so.)

*VirginMarie* · May 4, 2022

33 minutes ago, Deadly Kitten said:

This is just a fancy way of saying that I'm happy with having Toys and the like in an animation, as long as it makes some semblance of sense. But that would require a manual blocklist of literally every animation made, and i have way too many SLAL packs.

The feature described here, which I assume you are posting about, will critically rely only on the tags that are most common, thus, most often correct for the scenes in the SLAL packs. Where they are less reliable, we are also not excluding scenes. Exclude is just my word for filter by the way. Next release has filtering.

33 minutes ago, Deadly Kitten said:

If i had the choice, i don't want toys spontaneously removed. Would rather just have animation filters

The next release has that choice. You can go entirely with "exclude" or entirely with "phase", or use a combo. The only exception is that we are always phasing the armbinder/yoke type toys, because there just is not enough animations to bother doing otherwise. Perhaps play the Toy Story quest, learn about phasing toys, let that become your lore, and then you can feel immersed enough to accept that your armbinder phased into oblivion.

With Toys&Love, since Bondage and Love Scenes are integrated, we can take advantage of this, and do a great job of "filtering" but including the option of phasing too, as a combo, lets us do even more and offer more options.

Edited May 4, 2022 by VirginMarie

shadowzedX · May 7, 2022

I haven't played skyrim for a long time. anyone tell me can this mod completely replace sexlab core?

mercplatypus · May 7, 2022

53 minutes ago, shadowzedX said:

I haven't played skyrim for a long time. anyone tell me can this mod completely replace sexlab core?

It runs independently of sexlab and several mods in the Toys family of mods utilize this framework alone and not sexlab. However mods that are not made for Toys will still require Sexlab. Both can be run together at the same time. If you use Sexlab aroused then there is an option to link this mod's rousing to SLA so that they work together.

*VirginMarie* · May 7, 2022

Toys&Love.... Wondering what's coming next?

What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

Edited May 7, 2022 by VirginMarie

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