toys Toys&Love LE & SE

*Talesien* · May 8, 2022

What I'm really missing so far and what definitely keeps me from at least trying a playthrough without sexlab* is furniture support (nope not talking about those animations that 'materialize' their own furniture, I expect those will work out of the box as is) I'm talking about the 'Invis furniture animations' to make animations interact with already present furniture, be it a humble table or a kinky ZaZ device.

Oh and any way to exclude mannequins from getting pulled into an animation? Tested it in various locations (including Proudspire), it appears to happen every time if one is present and no other male actor for the scene can be found. That's a bit annoying since they don't animate anyway and worse don't return to their original spot afterwards.
Just in case it's connected (can't imagine, but ...). I'm using: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/53468?tab=files to keep the buggers in place.

* Well, this and perhaps an adaption of PSQ... I might try to do that myself though (gonna start somewhere ... prolly far from the ideal way to start, but heck ^^). Btw. what happens in Toys&Love if one of the participants dies during the sex scene?

Edited May 8, 2022 by Talesien

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

I'm talking about the 'Invis furniture animations' to make animations interact with already present furniture, be it a humble table or a kinky ZaZ device.

It's on the list to investigate. Currently don't have an approach for it. And by approach I mean technical, but also non-technical.... what it should actually do.

How does one position the actors when its just a table, how could the mod know where to put the actors, or know the table is compatible? With a zaz furniture, there is a marker for placement, but how does it know what animation is compatible. This is not a very "clean" environment you start with to make this happen. Its more fitting for custom scenes, like in SLaVE, rather than a framework that deals in "data".

I think there's a mod that does it already. Not sure if this is a thing that should be built into the framework or not. So.... on the list to investigate, not sure if we will do anything, or can do anything.

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

Oh and any way to exclude mannequins from getting pulled into an animation?

On the list also. If there's a way to identify the damn things, we might have that fix next release. There is vanilla ones and modded ones.

This is known thing. It happens in sexlab too. For some crazy reason, Bethesda classified mannequins as actors. Mods see them as actors.

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

* Well, this and perhaps an adaption of PSQ... I might try to do that myself though (gonna start somewhere ... prolly far from the ideal way to start, but heck ^^).

I don't know enough about PSQ, to have any idea what it would mean to do an adaption. Does not sound to me like it belongs in the framework?

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

Btw. what happens in Toys&Love if one of the participants dies during the sex scene?

If an actor dies, or just leaves the cell (walked out the door before the startup got them completely), the scene ends. Its not instant, but ends on start of next stage, just like if you press the EndScene hotkey.

knots1353 · May 8, 2022

Hi! So... I've been experimenting with the Love() API and happened to run across a repeatable CTD issue. After a lot of experimentation, and making a more minimal profile, I discovered it happens consistently on playing a specific animation, which may or may not not be related to Toys at all -- but I figured I'd report it just in case. The animation in question is from the Billy Animations pack - I tested with version 5.3 and then updated to 5.6 just in case it changed anything. It's in the Human Furniture section, the Billy Alchemy Workbench Fuck, SceneId="B_Billyy_AlchemyWorkBenchFuck".

While I ran into this with my own test mod first, I then reproduced it multiple times using a stripped down Toys profile, directly, using the Toys MCM. I made a similar stripped down Sexlab profile and was able to play that animation there with no trouble. From the .Net Framework crash log attached, I suspect the issue relates to the sparks coming out of the Alchemy table object that can be seen in Sexlab - not sure why Toys would have an issue with it, but it does. I've attached some logs from the stripped down Toys profile test, I have several more sets of logs from my original testing and from later crashes with the stripped down Toys profile, but the Papyrus log ends identically in every case, and the Crash Log is fairly consistent as well.

I tested a lot of the other Billy Human Furniture animations and didn't have issues with any of them - again leading me to suspect those sparks in the Alchemy table animation since nothing else in the list has them. (The Enchanting table has candle flames, but no sparks)

There may not be anything to do about this but mark that animation disabled or something, but I wanted to report it in case it is useful to you.

BTW, I'm really liking the new Toys and Love setup, and see a huge amount of untapped potential in it, so big thanks and definitely keep up the good work! I see a lot of mod niches to fill with it, so I really hope other people with more time on their hands than I do step in to fill them. I have ideas, but no idea if I'll ever get the time to do them -- although I will probably do a step by step writeup on how to get started tomorrow since I spent well over half a day just getting that single Love() call to compile and run.

Papyrus.0.log Crash_2022_5_8_0-42-13.txt

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

53 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Hi! So... I've been experimenting with the Love() API and happened to run across a repeatable CTD issue. After a lot of experimentation, and making a more minimal profile, I discovered it happens consistently on playing a specific animation, which may or may not not be related to Toys at all -- but I figured I'd report it just in case. The animation in question is from the Billy Animations pack - I tested with version 5.3 and then updated to 5.6 just in case it changed anything. It's in the Human Furniture section, the Billy Alchemy Workbench Fuck, SceneId="B_Billyy_AlchemyWorkBenchFuck".

While I ran into this with my own test mod first, I then reproduced it multiple times using a stripped down Toys profile, directly, using the Toys MCM. I made a similar stripped down Sexlab profile and was able to play that animation there with no trouble. From the .Net Framework crash log attached, I suspect the issue relates to the sparks coming out of the Alchemy table object that can be seen in Sexlab - not sure why Toys would have an issue with it, but it does. I've attached some logs from the stripped down Toys profile test, I have several more sets of logs from my original testing and from later crashes with the stripped down Toys profile, but the Papyrus log ends identically in every case, and the Crash Log is fairly consistent as well.

I tested a lot of the other Billy Human Furniture animations and didn't have issues with any of them - again leading me to suspect those sparks in the Alchemy table animation since nothing else in the list has them. (The Enchanting table has candle flames, but no sparks)

There may not be anything to do about this but mark that animation disabled or something, but I wanted to report it in case it is useful to you.

BTW, I'm really liking the new Toys and Love setup, and see a huge amount of untapped potential in it, so big thanks and definitely keep up the good work! I see a lot of mod niches to fill with it, so I really hope other people with more time on their hands than I do step in to fill them. I have ideas, but no idea if I'll ever get the time to do them -- although I will probably do a step by step writeup on how to get started tomorrow since I spent well over half a day just getting that single Love() call to compile and run.

Papyrus.0.log 15.28 kB · 0 downloads Crash_2022_5_8_0-42-13.txt 38.17 kB · 0 downloads

When I play that scene, using MCM, just like you did, I don't CTD.

I'm using the AE versions of things.

One thing different is that I've tried it with Toys V2.1 (the next release). Lots has changed, you can see here... What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

But I don't think I've changed anything that relates to the source of the CTD. Toys called the animation, and the animation called the animated object, and the source of the CTD is entirely to do with AO (the furniture in that scene).

It is odd that it does not CTD for you with sexlab, which makes it worth trying to see if something could be toys related, but the Crash log shows zero references to Toys.

Your Papyrus log looks very clean, no issues to see there. I'd guess you are CTDing right as the animations starts, when the furniture shows up? Is that right? Knowing the exact point in game is key.

Your Crash log shows that its probably Net Immersive CTDing. The sparks you mention are baked into the Furniture Nif. There may be a 2nd AO, the NPC picks up an potion bottle. If its that AO and nif, it would be a delayed CTD I think.

Any chance you have an outdated or non-standard skeleton mod?.... the Crash log has this.... skeleton_female.nif as one of the relevant objects. So possible its your skeleton and not the AO. I kinda doubt that.

To isolate it, I'd first confirm it can't be the skeleton mod. Then I'd replace the nif its using with another by just renaming (any Animated Object known to work). This would confirm or deny that its the nif. Then one might want to let Billyy know.

In the pic, the point where I see 2 AOs, the bottle in his hand and the furniture.

*Talesien* · May 8, 2022

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

It's on the list to investigate. Currently don't have an approach for it. And by approach I mean technical, but also non-technical.... what it should actually do.

How does one position the actors when its just a table, how could the mod know where to put the actors, or know the table is compatible? With a zaz furniture, there is a marker for placement, but how does it know what animation is compatible. This is not a very "clean" environment you start with to make this happen. Its more fitting for custom scenes, like in SLaVE, rather than a framework that deals in "data".

I think there's a mod that does it already. Not sure if this is a thing that should be built into the framework or not. So.... on the list to investigate, not sure if we will do anything, or can do anything.

There are two mods that do so, but both work only with sexlab of course. One is

Though this one only works with regular furniture, not ZaZ devices.

The other one would be @OsmelMC Sexlab Utility Plus

Given Osmel tends to be super helpful and very active here, perhaps you can collaborate with him on this.

9 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

On the list also. If there's a way to identify the damn things, we might have that fix next release. There is vanilla ones and modded ones.

This is known thing. It happens in sexlab too. For some crazy reason, Bethesda classified mannequins as actors. Mods see them as actors.

Hmm hasn't happen to me in Sexlab for a long time now ... perhaps I installed something that prevents it, no inkling what that might be though. While it does not mention something like that explicitly on the mods page my guess would be SLU+ again.

9 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I don't know enough about PSQ, to have any idea what it would mean to do an adaption. Does not sound to me like it belongs in the framework?

No as mentioned I will probably try. Far as I can see all that is required is to tell PSQ a sex scene is running and when an orgasm happens. Aside from that its mostly manipulating the arousal/rousing that needs adapting. Far as my reading up on the T&L Framework goes those are all things that should be easy to get from or feed into the framework, so it's mostly modifying the PSQ scripts to the different API.

knots1353 · May 8, 2022

7 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

When I play that scene, using MCM, just like you did, I don't CTD.

I'm using the AE versions of things.

One thing different is that I've tried it with Toys V2.1 (the next release). Lots has changed, you can see here... What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

But I don't think I've changed anything that relates to the source of the CTD. Toys called the animation, and the animation called the animated object, and the source of the CTD is entirely to do with AO (the furniture in that scene).

It is odd that it does not CTD for you with sexlab, which makes it worth trying to see if something could be toys related, but the Crash log shows zero references to Toys.

Your Papyrus log looks very clean, no issues to see there. I'd guess you are CTDing right as the animations starts, when the furniture shows up? Is that right? Knowing the exact point in game is key.

Your Crash log shows that its probably Net Immersive CTDing. The sparks you mention are baked into the Furniture Nif. There may be a 2nd AO, the NPC picks up an potion bottle. If its that AO and nif, it would be a delayed CTD I think.

Any chance you have an outdated or non-standard skeleton mod?.... the Crash log has this.... skeleton_female.nif as one of the relevant objects. So possible its your skeleton and not the AO. I kinda doubt that.

To isolate it, I'd first confirm it can't be the skeleton mod. Then I'd replace the nif its using with another by just renaming (any Animated Object known to work). This would confirm or deny that its the nif. Then one might want to let Billyy know.

I'm using the SE version of things still (which is how I'm running .Net Script Framework and can get the crash logs), so that *might* be a part of it - hard to say. I'm using latest version of XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended - XPMSSE on the Nexus, but according to MO2, Schlongs of Skyrim was overwriting a couple of it's files, but not the skeleton_female.nif file mentioned. To be certain, I disabled SOS and ran the test again (new game), same crash.

While the vast majority of the time, I crash a split second after the alchemy bench appears, I did have *one* very early test (the second time through) where it played through about 30 seconds of the animation before the CTD - during this time the alchemy workbench itself and my female PC flickered in and out, sometimes disappearing for seconds at a time while the male actor was still animating - aside from the timestamp on the last log message (the HIDE toys message) and the CTD timestamp 30 seconds later, the results look fairly identical. Logs attached just in case you're interested.

And... I've been writing this as I've been going through different tests, and replacing the nif found the problem for me... although not in the way either of us thought. When I renamed and replaced the Alchemyworkbench.nif in the Billyy mod (I used the enchanters workbench as a replacement), it still crashed, and I was surprised to see the alchemy workbench for that split second before the crash instead of the enchanter's workbench. So I went looking for file conflicts, and found another mod which replaced the Alchemyworkbench.nif file itself... ToysFramework 2.01. I renamed it there, and the crash went away. I restored Billyy to it's original state and the crash was gone with the actual Alchemy workbench.

So... the problem may be 1) that the version of that nif you're including in Toys is outdated or corrupt, or 2) that 2.1 no longer has it, or 3) that in your load order, you have the animation packs in your mod order *after* ToysFramework so Billyy's nif is overriding yours. (In mine, they're fairly early in my mod order, right after Sexlab and SLAL... with the ToysFramework stuff being down in the later section after.) You might want to play around and see which one it is. Is there a reason ToysFramework includes Billyy's nifs? Do built in animations use these?

Papyrus.0ToysCTD2.log Crash_2022_5_8_0-15-50.txt

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

4 hours ago, Talesien said:

There are two mods that do so, but both work only with sexlab of course.

The furniture thing would be pretty great. I moved it higher on the list as clearly it can be done through "data". Those mods you referenced must do it. I do see this as a built into framework thing now.

4 hours ago, Talesien said:

Hmm hasn't happen to me in Sexlab for a long time now

Making love to mannequins... think I've fixed it (I mean so you can't ). Have to test. It will be preventing it in the matchmaking/random scenarios. Nothing stopping a mod from explicitly ummm.... doing it. What you do privately in your own home, is none of an Innocent virgins' business.

4 hours ago, Talesien said:

No as mentioned I will probably try. Far as I can see all that is required is to tell PSQ a sex scene is running and when an orgasm happens. Aside from that its mostly manipulating the arousal/rousing that needs adapting. Far as my reading up on the T&L Framework goes those are all things that should be easy to get from or feed into the framework, so it's mostly modifying the PSQ scripts to the different API.

Great to hear you are making PSQ for Toys&Love . I look forward to it.

Orgasm - use mod events...

ToysStartLove - A love scene has started

ToysSceneStart - Any type of scene has started (so say making love to a standing stone). This fires too when Love Scenes start. You can use the included parameter to learn which specific scene started, so it would say "SLaVE Word Wall Love" for that one, for example

ToysClimax - player. Might be all you need. You get this one also if the next 2 happen

ToysClimaxSimultaneous
ToysSponOrgasm

ToysClimaxNPC - possibly you want to know when this happens

Another approach... just detect ToysClimax, then check to see if a Love Scene is active. You do that with... If Toys.LoveActive (you are just checking a bool property). There's bunch of these made public... Pulsate is one, for example.

Oh... and use Toy Story MCM option to see mod events firing. Good for testing.

Rousing Functions

GetRousing()

ArousalIncrease()

ArousalAdjust()

Ideas - Perhaps spice it up with something the Sexlab edition does not do?

- Oversexed - when the player is oversexed the succubus does something?

- a reward/reaction if Simultaneous O is achieved?

- perhaps the succubus has a Orgasm Denial fetish and reacts to this when you do it?

- Fondling yourself does stuff?

- Overheating (if hot&WeT is installed) - there's a mod event coming from HoT&WeT

- Pulsating

If you want to collaborate and get help, we tend to do that in Discord. Here is fine too.

Edited May 8, 2022 by VirginMarie

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

24 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

So... the problem may be 1) that the version of that nif you're including in Toys is outdated or corrupt, or 2) that 2.1 no longer has it, or 3) that in your load order, you have the animation packs in your mod order *after* ToysFramework so Billyy's nif is overriding yours. (In mine, they're fairly early in my mod order, right after Sexlab and SLAL... with the ToysFramework stuff being down in the later section after.) You might want to play around and see which one it is.

Good find. Thank you!

It would have to be... nif is bad (its for LE not SE perhaps)... and load order is making the difference for my test versus yours, OR AE is.

Not tried to figure it out yet. But I'm sure this has given me enough that I can.

24 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Is there a reason ToysFramework includes Billyy's nifs? Do built in animations use these?

We are using Billyy's scenes in 4 places...

Toys Love Pack that comes with Toys - this gives Toys a minimum set of solo scenes for Spontaneous Orgasm, so that it can't fail if you did not install any packs
Toys Starter Love Pack - optional and has almost 100 scenes, including the Alchemy Furniture one
Toy Story Love Pack - comes with Toy Story, to supply a minimum set of scenes for the quests, so they can't fail. Not all are from Billyy, but some are
WildLife LovePack - a few creature scenes to get you started

So we do need to ship the AO nifs someplace. The furniture nifs could be part of the Toys Starter Love Pack, but this was going to be a pain in the ass to maintain trying to divide the nifs between the two mods (Toys Love Pack also needs some), so we kept them in one place. Same deal with Toy Story Love Pack.

*Talesien* · May 8, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

Great to hear you are making PSQ for Toys&Love . I look forward to it.

Well for a start I was more thinking creating a patch for the existing one. If that works out, more is always possible eventually. I've a lot of experience as a programmer, but nearly none with the scripting language used in Skyrim, looked simple enough, but looks van be deceiving. I've been pretty horrified with the CreationKit ... like they're really using that to create their games? Seriously? Small wonder Bethesda games are well known for their buggy state upon release (ok nowadays that seems to be the standard for almost all new game releases ... still). Luckily there are standalone solutions for scripting, so I might get around the CK for a while.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Talesien

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

28 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Well for a start I was more thinking creating a patch for the existing one. If that works out, more is always possible eventually. I've a lot of experience as a programmer, but nearly none with the scripting language used in Skyrim, looked simple enough, but looks van be deceiving. I've been pretty horrified with the CreationKit ... like they're really using that to create their games? Seriously? Small wonder Bethesda games are well known for their buggy state upon release (ok nowadays that seems to be the standard for almost all new game releases ... still). Luckily there are standalone solutions for scripting, so I might get around the CK for a while.

You could patch, but if you have permission, a direct update to it would be a lot easier on you imo.

Make sure you install the one or more tweak/fix mods for Creation Kit from Nexus. CK sucks even worse till you do that.

XEdit as an alternative is good. Many use both, for different purposes. There's some things XEdit can't do.

*Talesien* · May 8, 2022

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

You could patch, but if you have permission, a direct update to it would be a lot easier on you imo.

Hmm, there are no permissions given on the page, I will check with the Authors.

*VirginMarie* · May 8, 2022

52 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Hmm, there are no permissions given on the page, I will check with the Authors.

Does it use UIExtensions in SE version still? I think UIExtensions is now toast in AE. Needs to stop using that menu system.

Hopefully its not a bit deal. Or maybe someone already patched that.

*Talesien* · May 9, 2022

46 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Does it use UIExtensions in SE version still? I think UIExtensions is now toast in AE. Needs to stop using that menu system.

Hopefully its not a bit deal. Or maybe someone already patched that.

It's not listed as a requirement. The header only has Skyrim.esm, Sexlab.esm and SexlabAroused.esm, so I guess UIExtensions are not required. Appears the only mod I'm still using requiring UIExtensions is AddItemMenu ... that's a big one though, as no one has made a replacement that comes even close. Not really relevant in the context here though. ^^

*VirginMarie* · May 9, 2022

49 minutes ago, Talesien said:

It's not listed as a requirement. The header only has Skyrim.esm, Sexlab.esm and SexlabAroused.esm, so I guess UIExtensions are not required. Appears the only mod I'm still using requiring UIExtensions is AddItemMenu ... that's a big one though, as no one has made a replacement that comes even close. Not really relevant in the context here though. ^^

UIExtensions is listed as a requirement (maybe only on the LE page)
Utilities like that don't have a plugin, thus they are not in the mod esp header, nor can your mod manager bitch, but they can be hard requirement never the less. Other examples include JContainers, MFGfix, PapyrusUtil, and more
PSQ has screenies showing the UIExtensions Menu in use. Pretty sure you gonna be dealing with that

QUI (Alpha) owns AIM, not just matching it but out-doing it.

*Talesien* · May 9, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

QUI (Alpha) owns AIM, not just matching it but out-doing it.

Sorry, but no, just no. QUI does not even come close. The main feature of AddItemMenu (for me) is the ability to search for an item by name, instead of having to know what esp you need to look in. As to the question if that feature can be added the FAQ still lists "maybe" as answer. Missing that feature makes QUI (and all other would be replacers who all also miss exactly this feature) totally worthless for my typical use case. Doesn't matter what other bells and whistles may have been added. You can build the best car in the world, if you answer the question "Will you add steering to it?" with "maybe" it's unlikely to be very useful. ^^

*Talesien* · May 9, 2022

9 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

UIExtensions is listed as a requirement (maybe only on the LE page)

Utilities like that don't have a plugin, thus they are not in the mod esp header, nor can your mod manager bitch, but they can be hard requirement never the less. Other examples include JContainers, MFGfix, PapyrusUtil, and more

PSQ has screenies showing the UIExtensions Menu in use. Pretty sure you gonna be dealing with that

QUI (Alpha) owns AIM, not just matching it but out-doing it.

Btw. I dug a bit deeper and it appears UIExtension works just fine in 1.6x. Same can not be said about many of the mods using it, perhaps leading to the impression UIExtensions being the culprit.

*VirginMarie* · May 10, 2022

50 minutes ago, leesjig said:

What's changed with body resetting from a toy equip from traps.

Seems like a question for the TT mod author. But I think nothing changed in TT, or in Toys.

The last release was all about Love. For TT it was only removal of Sexlab dependency.

Perhaps you've selected a different method of effect for the trap? TT has 3 effects.

50 minutes ago, leesjig said:

Just bringing up cause I've never seen this before, boobs reseting every time a trap goes off equipping a toy.

First I've heard of it too.

*VirginMarie* · May 10, 2022

42 minutes ago, leesjig said:

I changed back to previous version of toys ver 1.82. New start, went into Helgen and hit 12 traps...12 toys equipped on body. Not one toy that equipped reset body and/or breast physics.

When I was on Toys&Love ver 2.01, every trap and toy that equipped on body, the body does a reset, and breast physics resets. Me too, that's the first time I've seen the breast physics reset like that. Only happening on Toys&Love.

So never heard of this from anybody using 3bbb smp mode on breast with Toys&Love? That sucks, I don't want the breast reseting to rocks(loosing physics) every time she hits a trap.

3ba smp mode uses up a slot, just like armor. If that slot conflicts, it could cause your problem. Its talked about here... Something blocking equipping genital/clit toys

How about not use smp mode? Does it fix it? What's even the point of using that mode? I've seen no benefit, only the detriment of using up a slot. But if you think there is benefit, well... try not using that mode just to help diagnose.... is it in fact the slot?

I would say smp mode's vulnerability to needing a slot is likely got something to do with your problem. You can try changing the slot it uses (See link for that). For me it's showing 50 as default, and THAT is a conflict. Don't use 50.

Until you do the exact same test in both versions, you can't conclude that there is any difference between Toys ver 1.82 and 2. TT is random in terms of what toy the trap is equipping, and thus which slot. So at this point you have nothing suggesting its the version of Toys. The chance of it being version of Toys, is very slim.

EDIT: Also TT has a strip option. Try turning it off. It could be stripping the slot that your smp is using.

Edited May 10, 2022 by VirginMarie

*VirginMarie* · May 11, 2022

1 hour ago, leesjig said:

In new ver Toys&Love all toys equipping to all slots is now stripping slot 60.

Negative... Toys&Love is not stripping slot 60.

Even if it were, it's happening with TT.... right? So we are talking about TT's stripping option only.

I don't know if TT strips 60, I'm not the author for TT. But if you try turning its stripping feature off, you can then confirm, and report the problem to the TT author on the TT support thread.

1 hour ago, leesjig said:

In new ver of Toys coming up...will I be able to pick in MCM to never strip slot 60. ?

As above, Toys 2.01 does not strip 60.

Toys 2.1 has fancy strip options. You will be able to strip 60, but its off by default. Also due to the way 3ba has implemented its use of slots, I don't think Toys strip will succeed in stripping its smp thingie... which is a good thing.

Edited May 11, 2022 by VirginMarie

knots1353 · May 11, 2022

Hi! I've been playing around a bit with the events and it occurred to me that I'd find it really useful during either ToysStartLove or ToysLoveSceneInfo (or some new event) for the mod to be able to get the SceneId of the scene that's about to run. Alternatively, it would be nice (maybe even better) if the scene filter/randomizer in ToysLoveLib.ToysLove() were broken out into it's own function and an API were provided so we could randomize our chosen SceneId before starting the scene... although I suppose I could simply write my own version of that which used JDB to read the scenes list from ".Toys.Scenes" and worked from there.

*VirginMarie* · May 11, 2022

34 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Hi! I've been playing around a bit with the events and it occurred to me that I'd find it really useful during either ToysStartLove or ToysLoveSceneInfo (or some new event) for the mod to be able to get the SceneId of the scene that's about to run.

Yes could easily include SceneId in ToysLoveSceneInfo. This mod event I've imagined would be evolving from feedback.

What would you use it for? Always helps to understand the use case / goal.

34 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Alternatively, it would be nice (maybe even better) if the scene filter/randomizer in ToysLoveLib.ToysLove() were broken out into it's own function and an API were provided so we could randomize our chosen SceneId before starting the scene...

Little hard to imagine what you'd want it to do, without understanding your use case. This part gets complicated, and more so with next release... see the new feature #2 in What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

You making a mod? If you have a project going on, you might want to join our discord to collaborate on things like this. Doing it here is fine too.

knots1353 · May 11, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

Yes could easily include SceneId in ToysLoveSceneInfo. This mod event I've imagined would be evolving from feedback.

What would you use it for? Always helps to understand the use case / goal.

Little hard to imagine what you'd want it to do, without understanding your use case. This part gets complicated, and more so with next release... see the new feature #2 in What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

You making a mod? If you have a project going on, you might want to join our discord to collaborate on things like this. Doing it here is fine too.

Use case which I was just looking at - I wanted to see the tags on the animation that it chose to see if it could have made a better pick somehow. One of the things that always kind of annoyed me about the tag mechanism for choosing things is it was based on ANDing and ORing and then an equal random chance between what was left (if anything) after the filter. I've always thought a weighting system would be far more useful - something like: Vaginal+10, BJ+6, Anal+3, FemDom-20, Aggressive-20, to to produce a match score for anything which had those tags by adding together the weights. Then anything with a negative weight (or one below a threshold) would be considered filtered, and it would give a higher priority to choosing from the remaining list with higher weights. It might also incorporate a kind of weight fudge factor on scenes which have played recently so they're less likely to be picked again soon.

As for whether I'm making a mod... Heh. I'm always making mods. I just never have the time or motivation to finish any to the point where I'd release them, as I'm a bit too much of a perfectionist to release anything incomplete. The vast majority end up being thought experiments or attempts to figure out some internal working of Skyrim or to patch another person's mod to fix an issue or something like that. (The mod I *really* want to do I probably will never have time to finish, and every time I make any progress on it I find myself redesigning it...) Right now I happen to be experimenting with Toys to see what it can do, with maybe the thought of doing something like a Toys equivalent to the old Deviously Enslaved mod... who knows if I'll manage to stick to this one or not.

I am on the Discord (now with the correct account as I have several), but I find Discord, while it is nice for faster turnaround when you have a question and for real time chatting, I've always found it less useful for development work because it's not all that good at searching for a bit of info that was discussed a year back, or for building tutorials or examples.

*VirginMarie* · May 11, 2022

35 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Use case which I was just looking at - I wanted to see the tags on the animation that it chose to see if it could have made a better pick somehow. One of the things that always kind of annoyed me about the tag mechanism for choosing things is it was based on ANDing and ORing and then an equal random chance between what was left (if anything) after the filter. I've always thought a weighting system would be far more useful - something like: Vaginal+10, BJ+6, Anal+3, FemDom-20, Aggressive-20, to to produce a match score for anything which had those tags by adding together the weights. Then anything with a negative weight (or one below a threshold) would be considered filtered, and it would give a higher priority to choosing from the remaining list with higher weights. It might also incorporate a kind of weight fudge factor on scenes which have played recently so they're less likely to be picked again soon.

I like the idea of tracking scenes already used and not playing them again. I might have to steal that idea for a future release

The number 1 goal of Toys was FAST scene startup. Already so much processing and complexity to setup a scene. Exposing the data to an API to be manipulated and then consumed would be a big cost at the worst point in time.

Did you know SE scripts run literally 10X slower than LE? Example... run the "Love Packs Detail to Log" option on the Toys MCM Debug tab. In LE with about 900 scenes, it takes under 8 seconds... Impressive... it has to grab all the details for each of 900 scenes, from the .Toys.Scenes JDB you mentioned, and print that to log. Ok so now run that same feature, with same SLAL packs (900-ish scenes), in SE.... it takes over 2 minutes!!! wtf? But its fact. Every operation with a JDB or not, is 10X slower in SE because they gave priority to graphics for SE. So its no wonder that some mods were ruined by SE, in terms of performance. I have to avoid performance loss during scene setup.

35 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Right now I happen to be experimenting with Toys to see what it can do, with maybe the thought of doing something like a Toys equivalent to the old Deviously Enslaved mod... who knows if I'll manage to stick to this one or not.

A new Toyfully Enslaved mod would be great

*VirginMarie* · May 11, 2022

Upcoming Feature in next release. What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

We are feature frozen now. That was the last addition for v2.1

If you are familiar with Toys&Love, enough to guess... Guess how long it took me to reach the 220 XP there

It was a real, no cheating, RP-ish Play Through. I used carriage, but no fast travel. No Love scenes started by Toys MCM.

*VirginMarie* · May 11, 2022

Toys&Love 2.1 Release Candidate is now available in Discord. Link in my sig.

What's in the next Toy&Love Release?

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