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Toys&Love LE & SE

VirginMarie

Toys Poll  

992 members have voted

  1. 1. The most important feature in Toys is...

    • The toys themselves
      309
    • Toys Effects & Buffs, incl. transformation & unique escape methods
      193
    • Toys "Love" features... Rousing, Fondle, Denial, Oversexed, Spontaneous Orgasm
      212
    • Animations... Bound, Blind Fall, Spontaneous Orgasm, Signing, & Other
      278

  2. 2. When using Toys, I normally have...

    • Only Toys Framework installed
      134
    • Toys + DD installed
      94
    • Toys + ZAP installed
      135
    • Toys + ZAP + DD installed
      629

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VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, bubba999 said:

1) Is there a "toy Hider" so that nipple bells, for instance won't show over clothing?

 

No "toy hider". We considered doing one but there's reasons not to, so we decided to wait and see what the feedback is without it. Turns out its barely come up. The following might explain why...

 

Vanilla Skyrim already has good mechanics to handle what armor is seen and not seen. There's a "armorAddon" component where the mod author can prioritize. You will see that in most cases toys are viewed, or not, in a sensible way. In the case of Nipple Bells, well they stick way out... they forced a hole in your clothing :P . So ya in this case a hider might be nice for user choice. We DO want the Bells to show with the Princess Bra, for example.

 

I don't rule out doing a hider in the future, but if we do one it would be VERY different from the DD one.... much simpler.

 

7 hours ago, bubba999 said:

2) Is there a bondage shop to buy and sell toys and keys? Can a blacksmith remove toys ... for rough sex, say?

3) Is there no way to try and unlock, lock-pick or otherwise remove toys? I've only had a few but I'm wondering?

 

Both of these talk about getting toys and keys....

Toys&Love - Tips

How to remove a toy?

  • Toys Workshop has a toys vendor but not selling all toys. So not really a bondage shop. We "might" do a travelling bondage shop concept in Toys Workshop, its one of our potential plans, but will leave the more traditional bondage shop to others
  • Blacksmiths have not taken up the businesses but there's quests methods in Toy Story to get keys, and of course there's Toyful Temptations (links above)
  • I look forward to someone eventually making a full blown bondage shop for Toys, and the blacksmiths providing services is a good idea too. Where's Laura these days? :D
Edited by VirginMarie
Talesien

Talesien

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

I look forward to someone eventually making a full blown bondage shop for Toys, and the blacksmiths providing services is a good idea too. Where's Laura these days? :D

Rumor has it she has sort of a bondage contract with a competitor. :P

1
VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Clessith said:

Hello! I have a couple of questions about armor slots.  I just started using  Armor of Intrigue  and was quite enjoying it until a Diabolic H&W Chastity belt tried to get between me and my enemies...  I noticed that one of the armor parts,  a satchel,  unequips with the chastity belt on.  I did some digging thanks to your link and according to Toys&Love - Mod Author's Documentation the Chastity belt is slot 49.  Does this mean that the the satchel is using this slot as well?  If that is the case is it possible for me to change the slot the satchel uses so I can use both?  I kinda feel like moving armor slots for items is something that can break a lot of stuff really quickly.

 

There's an easy way to see slot usage.... the Toys MCM - Stripping Tab. There you will see what slots are used by toys, and what's currently in each slot. Equip something, look there, now you see.

  • As mentioned above, changing slots requires knowledge of both creation kit (or XEdit), and how to change the mesh itself (nifScope or Outfit Studio). So its not a user friendly thing to change them
  • When mods conflict on slot usage.... they conflict. Not much to be done here
  • The slot usage that Toys&Love does, is identical to other mods here on LoversLab. Its a standard usage that was established years ago. So its a shame chastity is in a slot used by that mod, but its not a unique conflict
Edited by VirginMarie
bubba999

bubba999

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

No "toy hider". We considered doing one but there's reasons not to, so we decided to wait and see what the feedback is without it. Turns out its barely come up. The following might explain why...

 

Vanilla Skyrim already has good mechanics to handle what armor is seen and not seen. There's a "armorAddon" component where the mod author can prioritize. You will see that in most cases toys are viewed, or not, in a sensible way. In the case of Nipple Bells, well they stick way out... they forced a hole in your clothing :P . So ya in this case a hider might be nice for user choice. We DO want the Bells to show with the Princess Bra, for example.

 

I don't rule out doing a hider in the future, but if we do one it would be VERY different from the DD one.... much simpler.

 

 

Both of these talk about getting toys and keys....

Toys&Love - Tips

How to remove a toy?

  • Toys Workshop has a toys vendor but not selling all toys. So not really a bondage shop. We "might" do a travelling bondage shop concept in Toys Workshop, its one of our potential plans, but will leave the more traditional bondage shop to others
  • Blacksmiths have not taken up the businesses but there's quests methods in Toy Story to get keys, and of course there's Toyful Temptations (links above)
  • I look forward to someone eventually making a full blown bondage shop for Toys, and the blacksmiths providing services is a good idea too. Where's Laura these days? :D

 

Thanks for all the help!

1
VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, AndrewLRG said:

I was wandering, is it possible to get a list of tags of currently running animation (Love Scene)?

 

Ha! I wish someone created such a list! There's actually a few around but none were maintained, and there's no official list. I did not find a good one. Toys&Love did not invent the tags... its an ages old collaboration starting back a decade ago, and not entirely consistently followed because the authors making SLAL packs have this problem too of no official source.

 

However I do have sort of solution for you.... Go to Toys&Love MCM - Debug tab. Run the "Love Packs Detail to Log". This will dump all the Love Scenes data to your papyrus log, including the tags. 

 

Another thing that might be useful... when a love scene plays, you will see some details on it in the console (press ~), including tags.

 

Maybe give me more context on why you are asking, as I might be able to help more so.

Edited by VirginMarie
AndrewLRG

AndrewLRG

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Another thing that might be useful... when a love scene plays, you will see some details on it in the console (press ~), including tags.

 

Maybe give me more context on why you are asking, as I might be able to help more so.

 

Apologies, I must have phrased it incorrectly. I want to make some other mods (Apropos, Succubus Skill Loss, SL Disparity, etc.) to treat Toys event as if they were Sexlab events and to do this external mod needs to know what animation Toys&Love is using. For example, when using Sexlab we can connect to the running Thread and get information about the used animation (tags, actors, anim name...). Can we do the same with Toys?

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 minutes ago, AndrewLRG said:

Apologies, I must have phrased it incorrectly. I want to make some other mods (Apropos, Succubus Skill Loss, SL Disparity, etc.) to treat Toys event as if they were Sexlab events and to do this external mod needs to know what animation Toys&Love is using. For example, when using Sexlab we can connect to the running Thread and get information about the used animation (tags, actors, anim name...). Can we do the same with Toys?

 

Toys&Love has loads of mod events. They are discussed in general here... Mod Author's Documentation  and in detail in the ToysFramework.psc under the heading == Mod Events ==.

 

You might want something like ToysVaginalPenetration for example... This is not a tag, but the event that says the scene has the condition of... "vaginal" tag, and no toy blocking.

 

"external mod needs to know what animation Toys&Love is using"  - so the Scene ID? Something else? Not sure how that is useful. What Toys&Love uses to tie things together is the "LoveName" which is a name given to the scene by the mod calling for the scene. You can then use this name for the events returned. Take a look at Love() in ToysFramework.psc for more info on that. Also you can see examples of how Mod Events are used in Toy Story.

 

If you don't see what you need in the mod events, maybe I can add info you need to the ToysLoveSceneInfo mod event. If you give me a precise example of your use case I might understand the need so I can offer the solution. We need to start with use case, rather than trying to think in a sexlab context. You can join our discord if you like (link in my sig). That's where most mod author support happens if real-time-chat helps. Here is fine too.

bubba999

bubba999

Posted
Posted

I'm lovin' it so far! That said... I'm desperate for some more controls to line up animations. Left, right, up, down....  just clone Sexlab. Please!!!

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
18 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

I'm lovin' it so far! That said... I'm desperate for some more controls to line up animations. Left, right, up, down....  just clone Sexlab. Please!!!

 

hehe :D Cloning is not the goal. Just like cloning the other bondage framework, was not the goal. We are trying to take lessons learned and do something different and hopefully better as a result. Cloning won't achieve that. In the case of Love Scenes, the #1 goal was FAST scene starts. We also wanted a simpler mini game (not a clone of the other mod doing that).

 

For alignment, you have the Height MCM options. Have you tried them? Sure this does not give you left/right, but it gives you the most common need... height... and automates it partly (up/down). If we overly complicate features like this, we slow it down, breaking Goal #1. 

bubba999

bubba999

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, VirginMarie said:

 

hehe :D Cloning is not the goal. Just like cloning the other bondage framework, was not the goal. We are trying to take lessons learned and do something different and hopefully better as a result. Cloning won't achieve that. In the case of Love Scenes, the #1 goal was FAST scene starts. We also wanted a simpler mini game (not a clone of the other mod doing that).

 

For alignment, you have the Height MCM options. Have you tried them? Sure this does not give you left/right, but it gives you the most common need... height... and automates it partly (up/down). If we overly complicate features like this, we slow it down, breaking Goal #1. 

 

Forget I said clone... but while height is helpful, I always.... always need to fine tune it. Especially since I like taking thousands of screen shots and movies. If there's any way you can implement some more adjustments that would be great.

 

Thank you for your prompt replies also!

AndrewLRG

AndrewLRG

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

If you don't see what you need in the mod events, maybe I can add info you need to the ToysLoveSceneInfo mod event. If you give me a precise example of your use case I might understand the need so I can offer the solution. We need to start with use case, rather than trying to think in a sexlab context. You can join our discord if you like (link in my sig). That's where most mod author support happens if real-time-chat helps. Here is fine too.

 

For example, Toys start a new scene and send ToysLoveSceneInfo Event. An external mod catches this Event and wants to check whether playing animation has an "aggressive" tag in it. How can we check that? If ToysLoveSceneInfo Event would have SceneInfo in it, then it could be done like this:

 

Handle = ModEvent.Create("ToysLoveSceneInfo")
ModEvent.PushString(Handle, LoveName)

ModEvent.PushInt(Handle, SceneInfo)
ModEvent.PushBool(Handle, True) ;? PlayerInScene always true for now
ModEvent.PushInt(Handle, NumStagesA)
ModEvent.PushBool(Handle, ConsentA)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[0] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[1] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[2] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[3] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[4] as Form)
ModEvent.Send(Handle)

 

 

Event OnToysLoveSceneInfo(string LoveName, Int SceneInfo , Bool PlayerInScene, int NumStages, Bool PlayerConsent, Form ActInPos1, Form ActInPos2, Form ActInPos3, Form ActInPos4, Form ActInPos5)

 

     String[] SceneTags = StringUtil.Split(JMap.getStr(SceneInfo, "tags"), ",")

     if SceneTags.Find("Aggressive") != -1

          ;;; has aggressive tag ;;;

     endif

 

EndEvent

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

 

Forget I said clone... but while height is helpful, I always.... always need to fine tune it. Especially since I like taking thousands of screen shots and movies. If there's any way you can implement some more adjustments that would be great.

 

Thank you for your prompt replies also!

 

Your welcome I want the feedback! So thank you too.

 

The idea is to try features for the main cause of alignment problems first... height, then seek feedback. If more than a few are saying its not good enough, on to the next feature.

 

It's easy to add left right, but then what about these...

  • saving the data?
  • saving it differently for each stage?
  • rotation?
  • what happens when you start a new game... does it still recall all this data?

For any feature, the main question to ask when designing is... why? Is it worth it? (particularly where you are fighting SE that is slower than LE and trying to keep it fast).

  1. Is it because of non-standard heels? Is it because your character is non-standard height? Height alone takes care of non-standard heels and will partially compensate for non-standard character height, but nothing will fully compensate for character height.
  2. Is it because we are compensating for the animation or SLAL data being just wrong/bad?
  3. Something else?

#1 I intend to handle, and I think its done with the new Height features.

#2 I'm not sure its worth handling at all... disable the badly made scene could be the solution which is already there. Is it worth slowing the mod down by adding complexity, just to compensate for this?

#3 - this might be the main thing which I've not yet understood.

 

Since you are making videos, let me see a few for examples of the "why" perhaps, but only after you've experimented with the height options as you already have full control there. You can adjust their values in the MCM.

Edited by VirginMarie
bubba999

bubba999

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Your welcome I want the feedback! So thank you too.

 

The idea is to try features for the main cause of alignment problems first... height, then seek feedback. If more than a few are saying its not good enough, on to the next feature.

 

It's easy to add left right, but then what about these...

  • saving the data?
  • saving it differently for each stage?
  • rotation?
  • what happens when you start a new game... does it still recall all this data?

For any feature, the main question to ask when designing is... why? Is it worth it? (particularly where you are fighting SE that is slower than LE and trying to keep it fast).

  1. Is it because of non-standard heels? Is it because your character is non-standard height? Height alone takes care of non-standard heels and will partially compensate for non-standard character height, but nothing will fully compensate for character height.
  2. Is it because we are compensating for the animation or SLAL data being just wrong/bad?
  3. Something else?

#1 I intend to handle, and I think its done with the new Height features.

#2 I'm not sure its worth handling at all... disable the badly made scene could be the solution whish is already there. It is worth slowing the mod down by adding complexity, just to compensate for this?

#3 - this might be the main thing which I've not yet understood.

 

Since you are making videos, let me see a few for examples of the "why" perhaps, but only after you've experimented with the height options as you already have full control there. You can adjust their values in the MCM.

 

I'll look through the stills for examples. But... I don't mean to make a bunch of work for you! I know in Sexlab the damn thing fights with heels height all the the time and is wonky. I will play around some more.

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 minutes ago, AndrewLRG said:

 

For example, Toys start a new scene and send ToysLoveSceneInfo Event. An external mod catches this Event and wants to check whether playing animation has an "aggressive" tag in it. How can we check that? If ToysLoveSceneInfo Event would have SceneInfo in it, then it could be done like this:

 

Handle = ModEvent.Create("ToysLoveSceneInfo")
ModEvent.PushString(Handle, LoveName)

ModEvent.PushInt(Handle, SceneInfo)
ModEvent.PushBool(Handle, True) ;? PlayerInScene always true for now
ModEvent.PushInt(Handle, NumStagesA)
ModEvent.PushBool(Handle, ConsentA)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[0] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[1] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[2] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[3] as Form)
ModEvent.PushForm(Handle, LoverPA[4] as Form)
ModEvent.Send(Handle)

 

 

Event OnToysLoveSceneInfo(string LoveName, Int SceneInfo , Bool PlayerInScene, int NumStages, Bool PlayerConsent, Form ActInPos1, Form ActInPos2, Form ActInPos3, Form ActInPos4, Form ActInPos5)

 

     String[] SceneTags = StringUtil.Split(JMap.getStr(SceneInfo, "tags"), ",")

     if SceneTags.Find("Aggressive") != -1

          ;;; has aggressive tag ;;;

     endif

 

EndEvent

 

Yes I could add SceneInfo, but I think better to send the tags so it would be the result....  String[] SceneTags...  already done... so that the mod author does not need to understand the SLAL data construct, or how to use JContainers.

 

But I'd still love to understand your use case. We are down in the weeds making a solution, where only you know why we are doing it. What's your mod doing with this?

 

Supplying the tags is a good idea I will do it in the next release. I promise :D Next release won't be long we are dong a minor one already. 

But if you share your use case, I might think of an even better solution, or be able to tell you how to do it as is.

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
12 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

the damn thing fights with heels height all the the time and is wonky. I will play around some more.

 

Toys&Love OWNS heels now (and character height too within reason).

It will auto-adjust for standard heels without you touching a thing. It will auto adjust for non-standard if you give it a value in the MCM. And then last resort you can change with the hot key.

 

I'm not worried about adding work... I'm only worried about overcomplicating and slowing it down.

1
Talesien

Talesien

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

disable the badly made scene

Talking about disabling scenes. Is it normal and expected that disabling takes forever and a day? Yes registering anims with SL Anim Loader took forever too, but selecting which Anims I want was fast and at least I could go and feed my reptiles or something while it registered the anims afterwards.
With T&L disabling a notable number of anims is extremely painful. It's un-ticking the box, wait for 3-4 sec., un-tick the next one, wait another couple seconds ...
To add insult to injury it appears that selection does not even get saved with the rest of the MCM settings.

 

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 minutes ago, Talesien said:

It's un-ticking the box, wait for 3-4 sec., un-tick the next one, wait another couple seconds ...

 

Ya I know its slow. Forgot about that though as I was going to try to make it better. I did already try...  It needs to refresh the MCM page after each change, and that's the delay (waiting for SkyUI to refresh), but I forget what the problem was if I don't refresh. Might need a whole new approach. Adding it to my list.      SLAL does not have that problem?

 

4 minutes ago, Talesien said:

To add insult to injury it appears that selection does not even get saved with the rest of the MCM settings.

 

The disable is recorded in the J Container data, not the MCM settings save file. So since J Container data is saved in your save game, I can't change this.  Save your game :D 

1
AndrewLRG

AndrewLRG

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Yes I could add SceneInfo, but I think better to send the tags so it would be the result....  String[] SceneTags...  already done... so that the mod author does not need to understand the SLAL data construct, or how to use JContainers.

 

But I'd still love to understand your use case. We are down in the weeds making a solution, where only you know why we are doing it. What's your mod doing with this?

 

Supplying the tags is a good idea I will do it in the next release. I promise :D Next release won't be long we are dong a minor one already. 

But if you share your use case, I might think of an even better solution, or be able to tell you how to do it as is.

 

Thank you! :) The purpose of my suggestion was to add a way for mods to check T&L animation tags, like in Sexlab. Something that will return String[] SceneTags. I'm planing to make compatibility patches for Toys and some SexLab-based mods. For example, Succubus Skill Loss can reduce players skills after Sexlab orgasm event. I want Skill Loss to do that after Toys Climax Events too, but we need to check whether it was an "aggressive" animation. Milk Mod Economy also needs to know animation tags before doing stuff. ;) 

Talesien

Talesien

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

SLAL does not have that problem?

No, selecting/deselecting in SLAL is snappy, of course as mentioned it then takes it sweet time registering the animations in sexlab, that's easier to stomach though.
Talking about that, another nice feature of SLAL is the ability to enable/disable all animations on that page, helps if you only want less than half the animations, not THAT common, so likely only worth it if it's easy to add, but if it's easy it would be nice to have.

 

28 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

The disable is recorded in the J Container data, not the MCM settings save file. So since J Container data is saved in your save game, I can't change this.  Save your game :D 

Not really helping with a new game, ya know.

1
VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, AndrewLRG said:

 

Thank you! :) The purpose of my suggestion was to add a way for mods to check T&L animation tags, like in Sexlab. Something that will return String[] SceneTags. I'm planing to make compatibility patches for Toys and some SexLab-based mods. For example, Succubus Skill Loss can reduce players skills after Sexlab orgasm event. I want Skill Loss to do that after Toys Climax Events too, but we need to check whether it was an "aggressive" animation. Milk Mod Economy also needs to know animation tags before doing stuff. ;) 

 

So giving a String[] with all the tags gives flexibility. I do see what you need now. I think this would be useful for many. I should have already done it!

 

Another approach to make it easer would be a say a Bool Function LoveHasTag(String LoveName, String TagName). You'd call this after any event (other than EndScene) and it would return true or false for the current scene. You'd pass the LoveName and this will get the right scene, once we have orgies supported :P . Would you be able to use that? 

 

For next release, I will do at least one of them.

Edited by VirginMarie
1
AndrewLRG

AndrewLRG

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Bool Function LoveHasTag(String LoveName, String TagName).

 

Wow, great idea! That would be ideal. :)

1
VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Talesien said:

No, selecting/deselecting in SLAL is snappy,

 

Ya I remember why now. In SLAL the packs are down the left side as page choices. Toys cant do that so Toys has the packs within the page as a drop down menu, so its 2 layers of data as opposed to one. This is causing the need to refresh which is causing it to suck canal water.

  • So the new approach might be where I take you to a Detail view (like the Toys Worn page), and do disabling there.
  • A "toggle all" I did already consider doing too
  • Remembering on a new game would be nice. My take on that was to wait and see what else I'm going to need to remember... like for example... If I get stuck needing to remember alignment adjustments to scenes
  • And Finally, I'd like a feature where you can just say "disable currently running scene" so you can "kill it" as soon as you see it and don't like it
Edited by VirginMarie
1
Talesien

Talesien

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

And Finally, I'd like a feature where you can just say "disable currently running scene" so you can "kill it" as soon as you see it and don't like it

That would be a great feature indeed. Neeeedddd. ^^

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
19 hours ago, AndrewLRG said:

Wow, great idea! That would be ideal. :)

 

These 2 functions are now in for next release. 

Next release will be out as a minor one in less than a week.

 

image.png

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