Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[ttpoer]

On 6/10/2024 at 3:02 PM, kingsglaive said:

Regarding my words, it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the master and the playmate could get married, and Lola would be their common slave.

 

I would love to see this happen!

[Gameplayer]

Not sure how, but the whipping speed has gotten out of hand an happens super fast,

Just did, "counting is fun"

Master whipped Lola somewhere between 60-70 times, inside mere seconds.

I wasnt able to count it because it happened so fast, now I have seen this trick before on same character with another Master the trick happened correctly several times.

But now it just zips by quickly impossible to finish.

[Hex Bolt]

10 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

Not sure how, but the whipping speed has gotten out of hand an happens super fast,

Just did, "counting is fun"

Master whipped Lola somewhere between 60-70 times, inside mere seconds.

I wasnt able to count it because it happened so fast, now I have seen this trick before on same character with another Master the trick happened correctly several times.

But now it just zips by quickly impossible to finish.

Whipping speed is just the NPC's combat speed with the cane weapon, which is affected by that NPC's base weapon speed and the cane's speed.  This mod's MCM has a setting to make reasonable adjustments to the cane speed (temporarily, just for the whipping scene), but that won't cause a huge difference.

 

You can check the NPC's weapon speed in the console by targeting the NPC and entering getav weaponspeedmult.  I don't know of a console command to examine a weapon's speed, but it seems unlikely that some other mod would change just that weapon.

 

Another potential source of trouble would be an NPC perk that greatly increases attack speed.  I've even read about problems with framerate unlockers that can cause crazy weapon speed.  I've seen some weapon speed fix mods on Nexus; those might be of interest to you.

[Gameplayer]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Whipping speed is just the NPC's combat speed with the cane weapon, which is affected by that NPC's base weapon speed and the cane's speed.  This mod's MCM has a setting to make reasonable adjustments to the cane speed (temporarily, just for the whipping scene), but that won't cause a huge difference.

 

You can check the NPC's weapon speed in the console by targeting the NPC and entering getav weaponspeedmult.  I don't know of a console command to examine a weapon's speed, but it seems unlikely that some other mod would change just that weapon.

 

Another potential source of trouble would be an NPC perk that greatly increases attack speed.  I've even read about problems with framerate unlockers that can cause crazy weapon speed.  I've seen some weapon speed fix mods on Nexus; those might be of interest to you.

 

I suspect it is a mod interaction with the weapon speed as well, I'm just stuck on the part of identifying it.

Thanks

[shiagwen]

could you make a patch to take out your bleedout features ? seems to be the only way to use lola newer versions together with defeat. 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, shiagwen said:

could you make a patch to take out your bleedout features ? seems to be the only way to use lola newer versions together with defeat. 

It depends on what you mean by bleedout feature.  The "Punish harming owner" feature in the MCM is off by default.

[CaptainJ03]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It depends on what you mean by bleedout feature.  The "Punish harming owner" feature in the MCM is off by default.

After a heavy whipping Lola crouches as if in bleedout. Would be silly if any defeat mod triggers on that, and not on zero health, so I wouldn't consider this to be your problem.

[Hex Bolt]

43 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

After a heavy whipping Lola crouches as if in bleedout. Would be silly if any defeat mod triggers on that, and not on zero health, so I wouldn't consider this to be your problem.

You're right, of course, but I'd assumed that the request referred to something else that just wasn't explained in any detail.

[leopardus]

Thanks for the good mod

[DonQuiWho]

On 6/13/2024 at 5:42 PM, HexBolt8 said:

You're right, of course, but I'd assumed that the request referred to something else that just wasn't explained in any detail.

 

Hi

 

Lola and Defeat

 

Sure, Defeat can be set to trigger at >0 health, as coupled with a set chance of the defeat event firing

 

Using @Bane Master 's version (the best out there):

 

- It provides top and bottom values, ie at <=x a defeat event CAN occur at teh chance set, AND at <=y it SHOULD (I hesitate to use will, because that is not really guaranteed)

- so say x=20% and y=15%, an event has a chance of happening at <20 and should happen at <15

 

You can set also a minimum value in Lola below which health should never fall on a whipping event.  So you could set this at 21 and in theory the PC health should never fall below a value which would cause Defeat to trigger

 

However, even with those sort of settings and the Lola Minimum health is set at say 21, it is possible for Lola to trigger a Defeat event when using a whip

 

Basically, my gameplay suggests that this is because

 

- the health decrease is not entirely smooth, and moves in % chunks, not single % units, and

- script timelag, in heavily modded games at least

 

You can see this by playing Defeat with the trigger set at 0%.  It just does not work too reliably well, even if the player is also set as 'essential', because the script lag can kill the player before Defeat can properly kick in.  Only way I have found to really minimise that is, believe it or not, to run DAYMOYL in tandem and let it handle the death prevention/protection event if Defeat doesn't catch it, and hand back the following events to the Post Defeat settings in the Defeat mod

 

It's really not a question of the mod, or user, being silly, to assume that Defeat can just be set to kick in at Health = 0% and everything will work just fine 😏

 

FWIW, when Lola does make my PC kick off a Defeat event, you can let it run harmlessly enough, and when it's over, use the 'Clean Up' option on the Defeat main page to put everything back as it was 😉 

 

Hope this helps

 

DQW

[DonQuiWho]

@HexBolt8

 

I actually only passed by to ask what might happen if I executed Lola, say on one of Pamatronic's fiendish devices.  She's getting on my PC's tits and is a pain in her adventuring ass

 

And she's giving me an earworm ....

 

Any help welcome

 

DQW

 

 

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

Sure, Defeat can be set to trigger at >0 health, as coupled with a set chance of the defeat event firing

Fair points, but the original request was "to take out your bleedout features".  I don't think bleedout refers to the whipping scenes.  The only connection is that punishment whipping plays a bleedout animation at the end regardless of PC health, but it's just an animation, not actual bleedout, so that alone wouldn't trigger Defeat (low health could, as you described).

  

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

You can see this by playing Defeat with the trigger set at 0%.  It just does not work too reliably well, even if the player is also set as 'essential', because the script lag can kill the player before Defeat can properly kick in.

I use Defeat's On Bleedout defeat option rather than a health level.  That's always worked reliably for me.

 

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

I actually only passed by to ask what might happen if I executed Lola, say on one of Pamatronic's fiendish devices.

I'd assume that it's Game Over.

Edited June 15, 2024 by HexBolt8

[DonQuiWho]

53 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Fair points, but the original request was "to take out your bleedout features".  I don't think bleedout refers to the whipping scenes.  The only connection is that punishment whipping plays a bleedout animation at the end regardless of PC health, but it's just an animation, not actual bleedout, so that alone wouldn't trigger Defeat (low health could, as you described).

 

If I misunderstood the point, fine.  I'd agree that the animation isn't where it's at - it's the extent, and rapidity, of the health decrease that matters 🤔

 

I use Defeat's On Bleedout defeat option rather than a health level.  That's always worked reliably for me.

 

Maybe I just have far too many mods in play. (And BTW, for anyone else looking, whilst I'm not doing this here, if you try a game with a male PC, I've found Defeat only really works properly with DAYMOYL.  Without it, death may not be certain, but it's highly probable) 

 

I'd assume that it's Game Over.

 

That's such a shame, as she's probably my favourite NPC follower.  I think I might just try to give her a new lease of life instead, within PAHE.  Then she can learn to behave nicely 😛

 

Much appreciate the reply.  It's a great mod - nobody should take anything other than that from my scribbles - but it's just not necessarily alway the easiest to try to play the base game with

 

Thanks for the ever prompt support. 

 

DQW

[Hex Bolt]

13 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

It's a great mod - nobody should take anything other than that from my scribbles - but it's just not necessarily alway the easiest to try to play the base game with

I didn't take it as anything other than honest, polite comments.

 

14 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

I'd agree that the animation isn't where it's at - it's the extent, and rapidity, of the health decrease that matters

That would be mods at work.  The whipping weapon that this mod uses does 1 point of base damage.  I usually don't see much health decrease, and it's slow & steady.  I understand that players might not be able to adjust combat/difficulty mods in a way that preserves the challenging experience you want without adversely affect whipping, but whipping is not doing much damage in itself.  You might reduce whipping times to a minimum that still looks punishing, and/or reduce whipping speed (I use 80% just for aesthetics, because it looks more deliberate).

 

30 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

That's such a shame, as she's probably my favourite NPC follower.

I think there's a misunderstanding.  You asked about executing Lola, the PC.  This mod has no provision for the PC's death.  If you meant to say the owner follower, I don't think that would work because the owner is set to essential (and if you do manage to kill the owner, the enslavement would still be in effect, with no way to ask to end enslavement when the contract is up).  If you just want a different NPC to be the owner, then recruit a second follower, use the button on MCM's System page to make that follower your owner, and dismiss the previous owner.

[shiagwen]

From changeloc 2.1.0

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout adds contract days".  Each owner bleedout adds contract days (this amount multiplied by the number of times the owner entered bleedout).  Default is 1.  Has no effect if there is no contract.

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout adds prostitution quota".  Each owner bleedout adds a percentage to your next prostitution quota.  The total increase (for multiple bleedouts) is capped at 100%.  Default is 25%.  Has no effect if score is below the prostitution threshold.

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout: owner takes potions".  After a battle, the owner will take a few of your most valuable healing potions (this amount multiplied by the number of times the owner entered bleedout).

 

 

The point is, that defeat does not trigger sexrlab when pc goes into bleedout and pc standing up after 20 seconds or so.  in this time pc can drink potion from inventory and heal by spell.  defeat blleedout is completely broken, because Lola touches the bleesout. It is a very sensitive feature in defeat, Goobo wrote it in the descritpion, that it can easily break by any mod using bleedout. It is from Lola because without Lola defeat works perfect. the version before 2.1.0, like 2.0.64, did not had the defeat problem.

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I didn't take it as anything other than honest, polite comments.

 

Ah, old age mellows people.  When everyone else here has reached my age, there should be no grief whatsoever from anyone 😉

 

That would be mods at work.  The whipping weapon that this mod uses does 1 point of base damage.  I usually don't see much health decrease, and it's slow & steady.  I understand that players might not be able to adjust combat/difficulty mods in a way that preserves the challenging experience you want without adversely affect whipping, but whipping is not doing much damage in itself.  You might reduce whipping times to a minimum that still looks punishing, and/or reduce whipping speed (I use 80% just for aesthetics, because it looks more deliberate).

 

Yep, and I'd already done that one by reducing it as far as possible 🙂

 

I think there's a misunderstanding.  You asked about executing Lola, the PC.  This mod has no provision for the PC's death.  If you meant to say the owner follower, I don't think that would work because the owner is set to essential (and if you do manage to kill the owner, the enslavement would still be in effect, with no way to ask to end enslavement when the contract is up).  If you just want a different NPC to be the owner, then recruit a second follower, use the button on MCM's System page to make that follower your owner, and dismiss the previous owner.

 

Oh dear.  You are so right!  

Sometimes my SOH gets carried away and this time, in my geriatric enthusiasm, I really got it arse about face!  How embarrassing.  As my progeny tell me, it's not how you tell them, pops, it's how you have to explain them afterwards 😏.   But there isn't any wriggle room to get away with that particular screw up! 🙄

More seriously, to give 'BossyBoots' some hope, I've already run through the MCM settings and tweaked everything in such a way that, when combined together, they should bring the contract period to an end as quickly as is possible.  And so Lola's 'bosslady', who was the one really in jeopardy, will hopefully live another day, and enjoy lolling about in an armchair, basking in Skyrim's golden rays into a ripe old age. 

 

Thanks for your patience!

 

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, shiagwen said:

From changeloc 2.1.0

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout adds contract days".  Each owner bleedout adds contract days (this amount multiplied by the number of times the owner entered bleedout).  Default is 1.  Has no effect if there is no contract.

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout adds prostitution quota".  Each owner bleedout adds a percentage to your next prostitution quota.  The total increase (for multiple bleedouts) is capped at 100%.  Default is 25%.  Has no effect if score is below the prostitution threshold.

 

New:  A new MCM Rules combat setting, "Bleedout: owner takes potions".  After a battle, the owner will take a few of your most valuable healing potions (this amount multiplied by the number of times the owner entered bleedout).

 

 

The point is, that defeat does not trigger sexrlab when pc goes into bleedout and pc standing up after 20 seconds or so.  in this time pc can drink potion from inventory and heal by spell.  defeat blleedout is completely broken, because Lola touches the bleesout. It is a very sensitive feature in defeat, Goobo wrote it in the descritpion, that it can easily break by any mod using bleedout. It is from Lola because without Lola defeat works perfect. the version before 2.1.0, like 2.0.64, did not had the defeat problem.

 

That's an interesting observation, thanks.  Be interesting to see what Hexbolt thinks about that.  I'll have a look and see if there's any evidence of that in my current game

 

DQW

[Hex Bolt]

7 hours ago, shiagwen said:

The point is, that defeat does not trigger sexrlab when pc goes into bleedout and pc standing up after 20 seconds or so.  in this time pc can drink potion from inventory and heal by spell.  defeat blleedout is completely broken, because Lola touches the bleesout. It is a very sensitive feature in defeat, Goobo wrote it in the descritpion, that it can easily break by any mod using bleedout. It is from Lola because without Lola defeat works perfect. the version before 2.1.0, like 2.0.64, did not had the defeat problem.

Okay, that better explains your concern.  However, this mod does not "touch" bleedout.  All it does is register to be notified by the game whenever the owner enters bleedout (it doesn't care about the PC).  When that happens, this mod just increments its own counter for the number of times owner had a bleedout.  That's all -- minimal processing, no interference with how Defeat (or any mod) handles bleedout. 

 

This mod won't cause the problem that you described, unless (potentially) you have enabled the "Punish harming owner" feature.  That's why I asked about that setting earlier.  With that feature active, if the PC injured the owner during the fight, the owner will try to force greet the PC to complain about it.  This mod does try to detect if a defeat scenario has been activated so as not to interfere, but it is conceivable that if the feature is enabled and the PC hurt the owner and the timing of detecting a defeat scene is bad, the owner force greet scene will start.  I don't know what that will do to Defeat (which is why SLTR tries to avoid doing it).  However, without that feature turned off, this isn't even a possibility.

 

  

3 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

Yep, and I'd already done that one by reducing it as far as possible

See the post below this one if you'd like to test a possible fix.

Edited June 16, 2024 by HexBolt8

[Hex Bolt]

Defeat Volunteers Needed

 

I mentioned the problem with SLTR whipping triggering Defeat to Bane Master, who has graciously prepared test patches for Defeat and the LRG patch.  I can't recreate the problem to test it, but maybe some of you who have been having the problem would like to try the patch and report your findings.  Bane Master did not make any promises, but presumably the changes might make their way into a future Defeat update if the tests are positive.

 

It's easy to test SLTR whipping.  In the console, enter "set vkjTest to 1".  This will give you an extra option when you ask "Master/Mistress?", "[TEST] I want to test something."  Select "I've been bad.  Whip me."  This will start a real punishment scene (you will lose score).  When done testing, if you don't want to see the test option anymore, do "set vkjTest to 0".

 

SL Defeat SSE.5.3.6 Bane 15062024 Test.7z Dynamic Defeat LRG Patch 1.6.3 for Bane 15062024 Test.7z

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Defeat Volunteers Needed

 

I mentioned the problem with SLTR whipping triggering Defeat to Bane Master, who has graciously prepared test patches for Defeat and the LRG patch.  I can't recreate the problem to test it, but maybe some of you who have been having the problem would like to try the patch and report your findings.  Bane Master did not make any promises, but presumably the changes might make their way into a future Defeat update if the tests are positive.

 

It's easy to test SLTR whipping.  In the console, enter "set vkjTest to 1".  This will give you an extra option when you ask "Master/Mistress?", "[TEST] I want to test something."  Select "I've been bad.  Whip me."  This will start a real punishment scene (you will lose score).  When done testing, if you don't want to see the test option anymore, do "set vkjTest to 0".

 

SL Defeat SSE.5.3.6 Bane 15062024 Test.7z 5.56 MB · 0 downloads Dynamic Defeat LRG Patch 1.6.3 for Bane 15062024 Test.7z 261.29 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thanks to you both

 

I'll see if I can find time later today ro give this a proper run through

 

DQW

[DonQuiWho]

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Defeat Volunteers Needed

 

I mentioned the problem with SLTR whipping triggering Defeat to Bane Master, who has graciously prepared test patches for Defeat and the LRG patch.  I can't recreate the problem to test it, but maybe some of you who have been having the problem would like to try the patch and report your findings.  Bane Master did not make any promises, but presumably the changes might make their way into a future Defeat update if the tests are positive.

 

It's easy to test SLTR whipping.  In the console, enter "set vkjTest to 1".  This will give you an extra option when you ask "Master/Mistress?", "[TEST] I want to test something."  Select "I've been bad.  Whip me."  This will start a real punishment scene (you will lose score).  When done testing, if you don't want to see the test option anymore, do "set vkjTest to 0".

 

SL Defeat SSE.5.3.6 Bane 15062024 Test.7z 5.56 MB · 0 downloads Dynamic Defeat LRG Patch 1.6.3 for Bane 15062024 Test.7z 261.29 kB · 1 download

 

@HexBolt8 @Bane Master

 

OK, I tried using these patches in game, from the current save onwards.  So,

 

Using ....

 

- Defeat Wound Threshold set from 19, 20, 60 through to 100 and one handed Dynamic Damage Events at default value of 10

 

with

 

- SL++ whipping set at combos of strength, 40 to 80, and time, 20 and 60 secs

 

...... I saw no real Bleedout, or Defeat, events

 

Lola stood there, took everything thrown at her, did her whipping event ending animation, and redressed just fine.

 

So, whatever was done seems to be working OK, or at least has not caused SL++ to work any less well

 

So thank you, both HexBolt & Bane Master, once again for the great support 👍

 

DQW

 

++++++++++++++++++++

 

One other point of note for Hexbolt.  When the Mistress starts the whipping event, both she and Lola strip.  At the end, Lola redresses but the Mistress remains naked.  I use iAFT as my follower mod and its outfit management can usually fix things like this by just asking to access the outfit, remove and return an item of clothing etc, and the NPC redresses OK, but it doesn't do so in this case.  I have to use the NPC Console Disable & Enable commands to fix the outfit, it magically reappearing on the NPC after the Enable command.  This peculiarity is something I've encountered in SL++ for a long time, but it was never a big enough deal to bring up here - I'm sure you've more important stuff to do than track down some minor obscurity.  However I thought I'd just mention it in passing, not because I am asking you to look into it specifically(!), but just in case there might be something obvious comes to mind or something comes up later as an obvious cause.  Hope that might help in some way

 

[CaptainJ03]

6 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

When the Mistress starts the whipping event, both she and Lola strip. 

Never had that, Mistress didn't strip once in all the years I've been using this mod.

 

Edit: yes, for sex of course, and maybe for a spanking, but never for a whipping.

Edited June 16, 2024 by CaptainJ03

[Hex Bolt]

18 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

...... I saw no real Bleedout, or Defeat, events

Great!  Thank you for testing this.  Hopefully a few others can try the patches too and post their results, but it looks like Bane Master's change is working well.  It should benefit anything that uses ZAP whipping, as well as things like Pama's Beatup mod.

[Hex Bolt]

27 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

When the Mistress starts the whipping event, both she and Lola strip.  At the end, Lola redresses but the Mistress remains naked.  I use iAFT as my follower mod and its outfit management can usually fix things like this....

Yeah, Mistress shouldn't strip for that.  Maybe iAFT's outfit system is getting confused, or another mod's outfit features (Coffee's extension to SLTR has an outfit system, but I think it only applies to the PC).  Unlike spanking, whipping is not a sex scene, so SexLab stripping wouldn't apply.

[Bane Master]

21 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

it looks like Bane Master's change is working well

Glad the issue with Whipping is better - we also need a few folks to test that Defeat still fires as expected when the player is defeated please