Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Antiope_Apollonia]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The mod you linked does use slot 47, which seems to be the "standard" for Skyrim backpacks, but there probably are conflicts with armor or accessories that use this slot.

This is part of why I revised the proposal to utilise a user-supplied mesh.  It's trivially easy to change any item's slot(s), and I'd expect almost any user who makes it as far as supplying custom meshes would already know how to do so.  But I do admit to being an optimist about people.

 

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Beyond that, I think some sort of backpack is already assumed by games like Skyrim and Fallout.  By default, you can carry several full sets of armor.  Where does all that go, in your pockets?  And you can run, jump, and swim with all that.  To my thinking, there's no way you're not already using a pack, sack, or other means of bundling a lot of items. [...] So, the owner's stuff just goes into whatever means you're already using to carry a staggeringly large amount of items, so feel free to wear a pack if you think it's appropriate. 

There's no doubt that the vanilla weight management system requires a considerable dose of suspension of disbelief.  Or there are mods out there to impose realistic limitations.

 

18 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

However, that doesn't look so nice with a lot of armor, and a backpack conflicts with quivers and with weapons or shields worn on the back.

Well, aside from the fact that you can mod quivers out of the way of backpacks just as easily as you can mod shields into the way, this is the other reason I revised the idea, as user-supplied packs wouldn't necessarily have to be backpacks and could instead be bandoliers or belt pouches or whatever.

 

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For what it's worth, SLTR's burdens are fairly light, just annoyances to remind you once again that you're a slave.

But this is precisely the intent behind the idea: to have a more salient reminder.  As currently implemented, it's often out of sight, out of mind.  And that's not ideal for either roleplaying or practical gameplay reasons.  Ye olde receive Burden of Service quest → finish play session → resume play another day → go to town → leave town → realise you had Burden of Service active and didn't return Mistress's stuff before leaving—classic.  I also thought about having Mistress correct you for forgetting, but given the problematic implementation of city boundaries in Skyrim, I couldn't think of a way to do it well, so I gave up on that idea.

 

At any rate, this leads me to think of another, related idea, although it faces some of the same downsides as well as at least one additional one, so it may be a non-starter:

Some kind of visual indication that Lola's flesh is available for purchase during the prostitution event, which could of course be MCM-togglable.  Perhaps something like a small sign hanging from a chain around Lola's neck, although I'm not sure what's available to such an end without getting into making custom assets.  Aside from the practical value as a visual cue to the player, this item could also have a worn keyword to be used to allow NPCs to approach Lola to inquire about her availability.  And I'm sure some users would get a thrill out of being so-labelled in public.

[NotKinkyEnough]

quick question, can this mod do this : I like the idea of my character being bought by a random possible 'follower' as part of simple slavery following defeat. that is, without activating or using rhe content of the mod otherwise

will this mod do that natively? so I can live a normal adventuring life but if/when I get defeated and slaved, there's a chance for this mod to kick in? 

 

I actually like 3 possible paths

a. my active follower 'rescues' me by buying me but sets me free
b. my active follower 'rescues' me but slaves me

c. some follower-type I've never met buys me for slaving

[just_Gina]

@NotKinkyEnough 

 

I believe that a. is provided for in Simple Slavery. There is an option for a trusted friend to buy you out of the auction.

b. and c. have to be set in SLtR. For c., you can set without technically 'meeting' said follower, though you'll have to click on them. I use the console.

so that their name doesn't appear keeping them strangers. 

 

@Antiope_Apollonia

 

So glad you've returned to the game as i positively love reading yours and Hex's discussions. i not only appreciate your reasoning, i also like many of your suggestions.

Some are probably not doable due to the amount of work required, some, either not along the intended lines of the mod, or else not applicable across the player base.

The rest though are spot on. 

 

my play style is the opposite of Strong Hand, it is never a choice, enslavement is a consequence of leaving the safety of a walled city, and not something to be sought out. Ever since SD came out, enslavement is more a death alternative than a goal. The threat of hours of boredom changed my playstyle from a swashbuckling heroine to a stealthy, fight-from-a-distance, runaway when the bad guys close, type. Health is never leveled above 200, instead the points always used for stamina. Better to run fast and run far, than risk being a one hit wonder. Other than archery, smithing and enchanting are usually the only skills required, as any strengths the PC has come from those.

 

i care very little about an owners' attitude towards lola. When her 5 days, (or however many she ends up with,) are over, she is done. She leaves her enslavements without anything.

Her homes and possessions remain with the owner, and she's forced to start over, a bit stronger and wiser. This game, she is with the third owner. First two were males and little more than brutal pimps, the third a Dunmer female with whom she is positively enthralled. The mod's settings have worked admirably well for each. The first owner, admittedly, i did in fact, ask for the strong hand. He came on repeatedly with his spiel, and finally admitting to herself she needed protection agreed. The second bought her at auction and used her almost exclusively for profit. The third is relatively new and set on playful rather than strict. Here is where your idea of an "Honest" dialogue choice would play better. Still, the difference between Strict and Playful are enough that even with using the Hard to Please setting, lola is considering remaining with her new owner when her time is done.

 

Not only is SLtR the only slavery mod that configures for so many playstyles, but it's also one of the few mods that does so period. Is it perfect? Is anything? But it is one of the only mods that doesn't force the PC into using DD, other than the collar. It allows the player to choose the tempo and tenor of the enslavement. It doesn't use scripted movement of the PC, except for the kneeling, (and here, i use SD's kneeling when speaking to an owner. When SLtR's kneeling kicks in, i use the stand key, so when told to, the PC stands up immediately.) Also, it is as unintrusive to vanilla gameplay as an enslavement mod has any right to be. Perfect, maybe not, but with some imagination, darned close to it.

i get the idea of being in love with your owner. (Never met a subbie who didn't fall in love with their Dom, at least a little.) Was always my goal to serve out of love rather than sexual preference. But being human, can't help but wonder what it would be like if it was not by choice or inclination. That is why my PC's are always young and innocent, (or could it be that's just wishful thinking? Need to explore that one a bit.) and kept weak despite their being the mighty Dragonborn. Never could reconcile a strong PC and slavery, other than consensual. My games are more about coming to terms with being property, no longer the owner of your own life and destiny. To this day, i can't speak to the why of it, probably the reason for my obsession with exploring it in Skyrim. SLtR is the only mod i know of that allows me that.

 

If this is too long, i apologize.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, just_Gina said:

Here is where your idea of an "Honest" dialogue choice would play better.

I wasn't suggesting creating a separate "Honest" mode; rather, I was suggesting that the label "Strict" doesn't really accurately reflect how the extant mode already differs from the "Playful" alternative.

  

1 hour ago, just_Gina said:

That is why my PC's are always [...] kept weak despite their being the mighty Dragonborn.

Why not use Skyrim Unbound Reborn to play as non-Dragonborn?  I resisted adopting SUR for way too long, but having switched, I don't see how I could ever go back.

  

1 hour ago, just_Gina said:

i get the idea of being in love with your owner. (Never met a subbie who didn't fall in love with their Dom, at least a little.) Was always my goal to serve out of love rather than sexual preference.

I don't exactly play as being in love with Mistress, although I may well do if SLTR facilitated it more.  I play more as loving Mistress, along the lines of the strong father archetype I referenced above.  Whether I love Her romantically or not, I do love her Her for giving me the strong hand I need.

  

1 hour ago, just_Gina said:

But being human, can't help but wonder what it would be like if it was not by choice or inclination.

Well, I've explored a bunch of different roleplaying angles, but what I usually do these days is to just start my playthrough in a SS++ auction.  It's too involved for most playthroughs, but one roleplaying approach that I definitely recommend is to start by plaything through the Laura's Bondage Shop questline, and then seek an owner from there after your PC's appreciation for submission has been aroused by that experience.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Hex Bolt]

19 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

When I think about being treated unfairly by Mistress, the only sense that really matters to me is when I'm not given a reasonable opportunity to succeed—which, in SLTR, usually amounts to moving the goalposts.

Let's talk about that word, success.  Clean Sweep can't be failed, and there's no score penalty for being made to sweep again, so success is guaranteed.  An unfortunate aspect of computer games is that they tend to foster the mindset of doing A, B, and C to succeed, so much so that we often see players speak of "beating the game" (they forget that the devs design these games to be beaten by kids, so it's not much to brag about).  I prefer that SLTR be more about the experience than "beating" it.  An owner wants the slave's obedience.  If a slave might be getting too smug, that slave gets a reminder of who's in charge, so if the owner says there's a dirty spot, there is.

 

19 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

If we stick with the example of Clean Sweep, another solution could be to simply modify the dialogue for Strict/Sincere/Honest mode.  Instead of implying that Mistress is lying about there being a mess to fabricate an insincere excuse to scold Lola and make her work more, She could be honest that She simply enjoys watching Lola sweep, and She isn't finished yet, so Lola needs to keep sweeping—mess or no mess—until She's satisfied.

Mistress never has to explain herself.  A clever slave can probably figure out that this interaction pleases her and understand that pleasing her should be enough.  In fact, it's everything.  It's not about beating the task.

[Hex Bolt]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:38 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Ye olde receive Burden of Service quest → finish play session → resume play another day → go to town → leave town → realise you had Burden of Service active and didn't return Mistress's stuff before leaving—classic.  I also thought about having Mistress correct you for forgetting, but given the problematic implementation of city boundaries in Skyrim, I couldn't think of a way to do it well, so I gave up on that idea.

I hadn't considered that someone might forget.  I'm usually pretty happy to reach a place where I can get rid of the thing.  You do have a burden item in inventory (owner's Stuff/Loot), but as a misc. item I can see how one could overlook its presence.  By contrast, Time to Relax has bound hands, which is hard to ignore.

 

Rather than an equipped item, which would only be within the capability (or desire) of some players, I like having the owner speak up.  It fits, since the owner will want the stuff back when a city is in sight.  I'll have to look at having it trigger reliably with priority over other location change events like Run, Lola, Run, but if it's practical, that would be a good enhancement.

 

On 12/13/2023 at 7:38 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Some kind of visual indication that Lola's flesh is available for purchase during the prostitution event, which could of course be MCM-togglable.

Radiant Prostitution has that, the Working Clothes (a player-designated body clothing item).  It's only needed in passive mode, for which clients approach the PC, but SLTR could detect if it's equipped thanks to the soft dependence. 

 

Edit:  I misspoke.  From what I can see, RP's working clothes are not required for the PC, only for NPC working girls.  Working clothes just offer minor bonuses for the PC.  The RMCW version of RP has removed passive mode and working clothes, a sad loss.

 

As a matter of roleplay, my assumption is that many (or most) players switch to a prostitution outfit when on the job.  Registering it with RP could let it be explicitly recognized.

 

On 12/13/2023 at 7:38 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Aside from the practical value as a visual cue to the player, this item could also have a worn keyword to be used to allow NPCs to approach Lola to inquire about her availability. 

With RP's passive solicitation mode, NPCs do just that.  I've always encouraged players to use RP over SLTR's rudimentary prostitution function.  It's a richer, more interesting experience.  Integration with a full-featured prostitution mod is one of SLTR's best achievements.  Unless a player chooses to enable NPC prostitutes, RP has no script load when the PC is not on the job, and essentially no load when using active solicitation.  As far as I know, SLTR works with every version of RP (classic, Gigolo, or RMCW), so if a player has a preference, that's fine.  Using RP doesn't preclude using other prostitution mods too, so there's little reason not to make use of it unless a player is really desperate for a mod slot.

Edited December 18, 2023 by HexBolt8

[Hex Bolt]

10 hours ago, just_Gina said:

i get the idea of being in love with your owner. (Never met a subbie who didn't fall in love with their Dom, at least a little.)

 

9 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I don't exactly play as being in love with Mistress, although I may well do if SLTR facilitated it more.  I play more as loving Mistress, along the lines of the strong father archetype I referenced above.  Whether I love Her romantically or not, I do love her Her for giving me the strong hand I need.

It's great for Lola to love her owner if it fits the player's vision for that character.  Of course, especially with the "young and innocent", it's possible that respect, admiration, and/or sexual attraction might be mistaken for love.  Regardless of Lola's feelings, the owner might not feel the same way.  I just don't want the owner to come across as warm and nice or be likely to give you hug if you're feeling sad.  It's not that kind of enslavement mod.  As I've said before, it's unfortunate that there's no general-purpose romance mod that might be used.  The only things like that seem to be follower-specific with a strong PC helping or rescuing a weaker follower.

 

10 hours ago, just_Gina said:

That is why my PC's are always young and innocent ... and kept weak despite their being the mighty Dragonborn.

 

9 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Why not use Skyrim Unbound Reborn to play as non-Dragonborn?  I resisted adopting SUR for way too long, but having switched, I don't see how I could ever go back.

This.  I highly recommend Skyrim Unbound Reborn (available for LE and SE).  You can play a non-Dragonborn character and choose to keep or remove dragons (or set at what level they appear).  It's a fun challenge battling dragons without overpowered shouts.  As a bonus, the starting room is well lit, a nice place to get mods loaded and configured and then outfit a character before choosing an entry point in the world.

 

11 hours ago, just_Gina said:

She leaves her [Simple Slavery] enslavements without anything.  Her homes and possessions remain with the owner, and she's forced to start over, a bit stronger and wiser.

There's a lot of freedom in not being dependent on gear to play the game.  I just expect to lose my stuff a few times.  It's also a reason to submit to or stay with a master if getting re-outfitted is a concern.

 

9 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

It's too involved for most playthroughs, but one roleplaying approach that I definitely recommend is to start by plaything through the Laura's Bondage Shop questline, and then seek an owner from there after your PC's appreciation for submission has been aroused by that experience.

This is great.  Players just have to understand that parts of the LBS questline don't allow followers, so SLTR enslavement should be delayed until afterwards.

[Anunya]

Re: Skyrim Unbound Reborn, is it possible to make it interface with LL type mods for starting scenarios?

[valcon767]

another option for starting a game is to use AS-LAL, possibly with add-ons.

 

it also starts you in a cell where you can install and setup your mods.

 

the way i personally start a game goes like this (i have AS-LAL, the AS-LAL live a devious life,  and the CCAS add-ons for it)

1 - start new game

2 - load character preset and adjust a little bit for this game

3 - make a manual hard save (just in case something goes wrong while installing/activating mods)

4 - make sure all mods i want to use are installed, activated and adjust MCM settings

5 - make a manual hard save

6 - flip a coin (heads is AS-LAL tails is CCAS)

7 - trigger random start

8 - check start scenario i ended in 

 

(there are 2 from AS-LAL i will not use due to personal taste {civil war starts} and 2 from CCAS that will not work right due to mod list)

if it is not one of the starts i cannot or refuse to use i just play, and if it is load manual save and do random start from other option.

so if it was and AS-LAL start that i refuse to play second time will be a CCAS random start, or vice versa.

 

doing it this way gives me a total of a under 10% chance of a non working (for me) start, and makes each game a bit more interesting because i do

not know what start i will actually get. with my mod list between AS-LAL and its add-ons i have probably (never actually counted) about 50 random

starts it chooses from.

 

just an idea for others, use or not as you see fit.

 

[Hex Bolt]

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

Re: Skyrim Unbound Reborn, is it possible to make it interface with LL type mods for starting scenarios?

Not directly, but there are several starting locations without quests, so it's easy to pop into the world and immediately activate a quest that interests you.  One location that I like is the Solitude docks, as if you just stepped off a ship.  Maybe you'll find a strong hand to guide you at the inn.

 

1 hour ago, valcon767 said:

another option for starting a game is to use AS-LAL, possibly with add-ons.

That's a good alternate start mod too.  I've used it.  I'm just partial to the other one, but it's good to have choices and to be able to skip the standard intro after having done it many times.

[just_Gina]

11 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Regardless of Lola's feelings, the owner might not feel the same way.

Actually, i asked a Dom once about that very thing; His response was that he'd never allow himself to fall in love with one of his subbies...too messy, and he preferred his subbies reciprocate in kind. My situation at the time was still fairly new, and his response didn't fill me with a lot of confidence, considering i was already well on my way. i wanted to debate, or at the least, understand his reasoning, but the question had been asked and answered, and that was the end of that. 

 

 

[Hex Bolt]

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Actually, i asked a Dom once about that very thing; His response was that he'd never allow himself to fall in love with one of his subbies...too messy, and he preferred his subbies reciprocate in kind.

Although the mod doesn't try to reflect a real-life dom-sub relationship, the owner's position would be something like you described, with the difference that the owner might be fine with one-way feelings if it makes the slave more devoted and easier to control.  But that's up to each player to decide how much of a schemer the owner is versus this kind of candor.

 

For players looking for more warmth and romance, the playmate could fill that role.  I don't think most owners would object, as long as it doesn't interfere with Lola's behavior.  A romanceable companion mod might work well for a playmate.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Let's talk about that word, success.  Clean Sweep can't be failed, and there's no score penalty for being made to sweep again, so success is guaranteed. 

 Success on Mistress's terms.  If I'm playing for a goal like being a good slave or earning Mistress's approval—in other words, if I'm roleplaying as on the same side as Mistress—then success or failure is defined by Her reaction.  If She tells me I've failed, then that is failure.  If She tells me I've been a good girl, then that is success.  Mistress's words of admonishment and approbation are much more important to me than any gamified scorekeeping.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

An unfortunate aspect of computer games is that they tend to foster the mindset of doing A, B, and C to succeed, so much so that we often see players speak of "beating the game" (they forget that the devs design these games to be beaten by kids, so it's not much to brag about).

The way the event currently works just railroads you to an outcome you have no control over.  Being railroaded seldom feels great in RPGs.  It's one thing for JRPGs that are basically just interactive films with entirely linear narratives, and you go into it knowing that railroading comes with the territory.  (Although that's why I tend to just watch a let's play if there's a JRPG that catches my interest...)  But part of what makes games like Skyrim so great and so infinitely replayable is that you almost never feel railroaded—that you always feel like your choices matter.  It feels much better if my choices determine whether I receive praise or punishment than to have the outcome dictated by the RNG or the author.  And, to be clear, a scolding absolutely qualifies as punishment—probably the most painful punishment of all, in fact.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

I prefer that SLTR be more about the experience than "beating" it. 

I don't know how I can possibly be any clearer that everything I'm talking about is entirely focused on "the experience"—the whole point is how Mistress's behaviour affects my experience roleplaying.  That's why I laid out an alternative approach to resolving the issue with Clean Sweep that keeps the gameplay exactly as-is.  Success and failure are not synonymous with winning and losing.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Mistress never has to explain herself.

Well, regardless, she does explain herself.  She explains essentially that Lola is useless and that her sweeping has displeased Her.  She scolds Lola quite harshly for stopping sweeping despite the mod forcing her to desist and tell Mistress she's finished.

 

I don't entirely accept the premise, either, though.  It's certainly at least partly true that Mistress doesn't have to explain herself, but she does need to explain her expectations sufficiently for Lola to understand what she must do to meet them.  And purely as a matter of being a fun game, a Mistress who simply issued orders without any explanation would be an awfully lifeless character.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

A clever slave can probably figure out that this interaction pleases her and understand that pleasing her should be enough.

If that's the way Mistress speaks to Lola when she's pleased, then frankly, it's hard to feel like She's on the same side as Lola.  Getting harshly scolded for doing exactly what I'm asked to do—which, incidentally, is also the only thing I can do—feels like abuse.  And being abused doesn't feel like getting the Strong Hand I need.

  

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's great for Lola to love her owner if it fits the player's vision for that character.  [...]  Regardless of Lola's feelings, the owner might not feel the same way. 

I'm sufficiently content to aspire to being valued.  A well-trained slave is undeniably a valuable piece of property—a well-trained slave with genuine loyalty to her owner all the more so—so it'd be weird if Mistress, being the clever and capable woman that she is, failed to acknowledge this.  SLTR does convey this sense of being valued as your score increases, but fairly inconsistently.  Trophy Slave is nice for this, although I don't recall it having any tie-ins to your score, which is maybe an idea for future development: at lower scores, Mistress could focus more on what a nice piece of ass you are, and at higher scores, she could talk more about your obedience and being a good girl—and still a nice piece of ass, of course, too.  There could even be special dialogue to recognise lifetime contracts and/or having completed Tagged.  And of course, the big feeling valued moment comes with Tagged, but being a one-off, that doesn't necessarily sustain the feeling—although I do sometimes get a little tingle when happening upon the tag in my inventory.

I think it's generally possible to keep the writing relatively ambiguous on whether Mistress feels anything deeper than valuation—the stern father analogy is instructive here again—and just let the player project their own interpretations onto some of Mistress's behaviour.  I think SLTR does achieve this a fair bit of the time, although there are occasional moments where it could be improved.

  

On 12/14/2023 at 11:40 PM, HexBolt8 said:

With RP's passive solicitation mode, NPCs do just that.  I've always encouraged players to use RP over SLTR's rudimentary prostitution function.  It's a richer, more interesting experience. 

I might have to look into it.  It always looked rather feature-bloated for my purposes.  I don't really have any particular interest in prostitution mods per se.  I just use it as one more event in the pool of ways to serve Mistress.  The built-in SLTR prostitution works very well with a negligible footprint and negligible hassle, and it does basically everything that matters to me for such an event.  It'd be great to have something like this "passive solicitation mode", but I'm not sure it'd be worth getting into a new large mod for just that.  That you mentioned it uses body clothing isn't ideal, either, given that Mistress Artemisia expects her property to be fully visible at all times, but there are ways to work around that.

 

One simple thing that's always put me off of RP is the existence of several competing versions of it.  Which one would you recommend trying?

  

On 12/15/2023 at 12:30 AM, HexBolt8 said:

As a bonus, the starting room is well lit, a nice place to get mods loaded and configured and then outfit a character before choosing an entry point in the world.

And it has containers that you can quite easily mod items into if you want to have them conveniently available on new playthroughs without having to add them with the console.  LAL's lack of any container is a big oversight, as adding a container is a much bigger modding project than just putting some items in one that's already there.  I have the DD crafting book and set of cuffs in mine, for example.

  

On 12/15/2023 at 12:30 AM, HexBolt8 said:

This is great.  Players just have to understand that parts of the LBS questline don't allow followers, so SLTR enslavement should be delayed until afterwards.

That's what makes sense narratively, anyway.  The LBS questline is your stumbling into the world of submission, and once your interest has been piqued, you want a more serious arrangement.  LBS is all fairly tame and consensual, but it's a good entrée that can help your PC realise that she needs a strong hand to guide her.  And it's a well-written, mostly well-executed, generally compelling narrative.

  

19 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Not directly, but there are several starting locations without quests, so it's easy to pop into the world and immediately activate a quest that interests you.  One location that I like is the Solitude docks, as if you just stepped off a ship.  Maybe you'll find a strong hand to guide you at the inn.

It's above my skill level, but Unbound does advertise ease of creating extensions as one of its selling points.  It'd be cool to have an SS++ addon that would let SUR send you directly to auction at the start of the game, although it's admittedly not hard to just click "Enslave me now" as is.

  

3 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For players looking for more warmth and romance, the playmate could fill that role.  I don't think most owners would object, as long as it doesn't interfere with Lola's behavior.  A romanceable companion mod might work well for a playmate.

I really like PAHE slaves for this, but it does require a fairly specific set of roleplaying assumptions, so it may not be for everyone.  With DoM, PAHE slaves have a fair bit of personality, and they can befriend or even fall in love with the player.  You can also allow Mistress to avail Herself of them sexually on Her own initiative through HSH.  I find them to feel like much more interesting and dynamic characters than most followers, especially that the few very interesting followers out there have their own narrative arcs that don't really mesh too well with SLTR—and some of them don't work too well with follower frameworks, either, to be able to be playmates in the first place.  It's not for everyone for sure, but if you're looking for a slave sister(s), it's definitely one route you can go.  Because I'm satisfied with the PAHE suite for this, the playmate feature isn't something I give a lot of thought anymore, but the ambiguity around whether she's dominant or submissive always made it hard to feel like she's a real character.  I wouldn't put it high on my list of priorities, but I still feel like that feature needs to be split into two to specify the playmate's status so that she can be developed more as a character.

 

Sometimes I do very different things in playthroughs, but my most common go-to casts my Mistress as a wealthy patrician from some other Tamrielic province and my PC becomes Her overseer as She extends Her household into Skyrim.  It may be a little out of date, but I wrote up a brief synopsis of the kind of story I tend to roleplay—link in my signature.  I tend to have the PAHE suite as a fairly prominent aspect of the gameplay in most of my playthroughs, building up Mistress's household with the crème de la crème and building up Her wealth by selling the rest with AYGAS, which is also my solution for helping to populate the world with random slaves so that Lola doesn't look out of place.  But it's wholly possible to use these mods in a much more constrained fashion if you prefer, only enslaving one or a few NPCs as companions.  You can even use Slave Jane to get a PAHE slave sister without having to collar her yourself.

 

---

 

I've finally got my Skyrim install more or less sorted again after the update apocalypse, and I'm getting up to speed with the latest SLTR MCM changes, and I noticed what I hope is an oversight on the description of the "Owner's cut" slider under Rules → Forced prostitution:

Quote

With gold sharing enabled, your owner will get this cut, and will ALSO take a share of the gold you receive.

If I recall correctly, this double taxation was something that you changed several updates ago.  Did you revert this change, or is the description merely out of date?  I dearly hope it's the latter, as that change was very positive.

[Hex Bolt]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:24 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

If I recall correctly, this double taxation was something that you changed several updates ago.  Did you revert this change, or is the description merely out of date?

The info text is outdated.  I'll fix that.

 

On 12/15/2023 at 9:24 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I might have to look into it [Radiant Prostitution].  It always looked rather feature-bloated for my purposes...  It'd be great to have something like this "passive solicitation mode", but I'm not sure it'd be worth getting into a new large mod for just that.  That you mentioned it uses body clothing isn't ideal, either, given that Mistress Artemisia expects her property to be fully visible at all times, but there are ways to work around that.

I misspoke above (I'll correct that wording so as not to confuse anyone).  From what I can see, "working clothes" are only needed for NPC passive prostitution (playmate or barmaids), though they confer a bonus to approach chance (irrelevant though, since you can set the chance to 100%).

 

On 12/15/2023 at 9:24 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

One simple thing that's always put me off of RP is the existence of several competing versions of it.  Which one would you recommend trying?

I'll use a spoiler section for readers who don't care about this.

 

Spoiler

Each has disadvantages.  I'll take them in chronological order.

 

Original version - Never progressed beyond beta/WIP stage.

 

Radiant Prostitution Tweaked was last updated in 2014.  I've never tried it.  Wraithslayer's version continued where this one left off.

 

Wraithslayer's version (apparently, it's only for LE).  I'm using a personally modified private version of this.

 

Gigolo version (LE/SE).  Adds better support for male PCs.  Later introduced the use of SLSO, which seems to have made the mod unstable (numerous complaints in the discussion, though it's unclear to me if the problems only exist for players using SLSO, since people not having problems tend not to comment).  Many people like SLSO, but I avoid it because you can have weird problems and the benefit/pain ratio doesn't seem favorable to me.  The last person to work on this mod has been gone for a year.

 

RMCW version (LE/SE).  This one is actively maintained.  It would be the clear winner for you except that it was simplified to reduce problems by removing passive approach mode, which is likely a deal breaker for you, and use of arousal (you might not care about that).  On the other hand, it adds soft support for Sex Fame (that one's too quirky for me to use, but some people use it) and SL Horrible Harassment (for the possible rape outcomes if you try to back out of a deal, I think).  Also, RMCW contributed to SLTR's prostitution script and is aware of the interactions (though SLTR is not dependent on any particular RP version).  Last, this version adds the Indebted outcome for Simple Slavery (indentured prostitution).

 

SLTR's basic prostitution is not intended to compete with full-featured mods.  It's just a "batteries included" feature for those who don't want to use RP.  I don't plan to add to it, other than maintenance and fixes.

 

Advantages of Radiant Prostitution

- Richer configuration options for pay, with progress through prostitution ranks.

- Optional special jobs that offer better pay.

- Some ability to influence choice of sex act, which can be important with wear & tear mods.

- SLSO support (for those who use it).

- Passive solicitation mode, if you're using an older version.

 

Advantages of SLTR's basic prostitution

- Lightweight and saves a mod slot.

- Clients will remember you, which affects their remarks.

[Hex Bolt]

I'm planning to remove this mod's MCM option to "Make collar working clothes" for Radiant Prostitution.  It looks as if this never actually worked, because RP only checks the body clothing slot.  If anyone has a reason not to remove it, please speak up now.

[just_Gina]

Don't think it really matters, under Passive and Both, the customers come to you no matter what you're wearing. Think Working Clothes is only important for NPCs. Seems to me, only checks slot 32.

i used RP since it came out. Now using Gigolo version. Never really had a problem with any of them. I don't use any of the scenarios other than the main one.

Once in a while need to save/load to refresh approaches, otherwise, no worries mate. 

RP allows for different types of PC roleplay, in that having to actively sell one's body is quite a bit more humiliating (at least at first) than waiting around for a customer to come to them.

Edited December 19, 2023 by just_Gina

[Antiope_Apollonia]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The info text is outdated.  I'll fix that.

Whew!  Glad to hear it.

  

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Many people like SLSO, but I avoid it because you can have weird problems and the benefit/pain ratio doesn't seem favorable to me. 

Yeah, SLSO is one of those ideas that sounds great on paper, but the implementation just hasn't ever seemed worth it to me, either.

  

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

SLTR's basic prostitution is not intended to compete with full-featured mods.  It's just a "batteries included" feature for those who don't want to use RP.  I don't plan to add to it, other than maintenance and fixes.

That's a pity.  You often speak about SLTR's native prostitution system in rather self-deprecating terms, but I wish you'd give your product a little more credit.  It's a really good little system.

  

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

- Lightweight and saves a mod slot.

And It Just Works™.  Your mods always have a level of reliability and—what would be the best way to describe it?—structural integrity? that a lot of LL mods sadly lack.  Don't undersell that—it's a really big strength.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

- Clients will remember you, which affects their remarks.

So, am I correct in interpreting you as implying that that wouldn't happen if I used Radiant Prostitution, then?  That'll settle the matter, then.  I appreciate that dialogue a lot more than any features I might be missing out on.  Having NPCs remember you and change the way they speak to you as you interact with them—personally, rather than globally like with SLSF—is one of my favourite things about SLTR.  It was so awesome when you started adding that content, and I really look forward to any future expansion along those lines—the immersion is off the charts!

 

It sounds like it's not in the cards, but if SLTR's native prostitution ever did get a passive solicitation mode, there'd be plenty of great opportunities to leverage the existing system for "NPC memory" in cool, immersive ways.

• Previously satisfied clients could be more likely to approach in the future.
• You could tell certain NPCs—e.g., bloody Nazeem—"not ever" when approached.
• NPCs who'd gotten it for free via I Am Famous in the past could possibly get an overblown sense of entitlement, with complications thus arising.

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Advantages of Radiant Prostitution

None of that really does much for me.  I'm not trying to launch a career as a whore; I'm just a slave who whores for Mistress when it pleases Her.  So it sounds like sticking with SLTR's native system is the way to go, then.  The only feature that I'd care about is the passive solicitation, and the only supported version doesn't have it, and I'd have to trade off a wonderful SLTR feature to use any version that does?  Seems like a no-brainer.

[Hex Bolt]

12 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

It sounds like it's not in the cards, but if SLTR's native prostitution ever did get a passive solicitation mode, there'd be plenty of great opportunities to leverage the existing system for "NPC memory" in cool, immersive ways.

If anything, I'd probably go the other direction and see if it would be practical to add a dialog interface between SLTR and RP, so potential clients could greet Lola with recognition (favorable or unfavorable) before chaining into RP's solicitation topic.  With a hard dependence on RP, it would have to be a standalone file, but probably small enough to be an ESL.  Another item for the list.

[r3mind]

Radiant Prostituion has a mini game to serve drinks to customers (with a chance to get harassed during the job). I used it in the beginning of some of my playthroughs. Too bad it never got more attention from the dev, because it's way more immersive to start your whore/slave arc with a menial job. In SLTR when the Master suddenly tells PC to sell her body to 5+ people must be kinda shocking too^^

[Anunya]

I wonder if the waitressing mini-game in Radiant Prostitution could be repurposed in other parts of SubLola. IIRC we talked about hosting a party in a player-owned (Master-owned) home. Perhaps the RP server functionality could be used to serve food and drink the Master's guests (with the potential of having to cook the things rather than merely pick them up, and the potential of having to provide other more sordid hostess services to the guests).

[robert_d_negro]

need a updated version

 

[Herowynne]

17 hours ago, robert_d_negro said:

need a updated version

 

 

No, an updated version is not needed.

 

You can safely ignore the Form 43 warning.

 

Generally, Form 43 ESP files work fine on Skyrim SE and AE.

 

In particular, the ESP file included with Submissive Lola has been thoroughly tested and is known to work fine on the SE version.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Herowynne

[Talesien]

2 hours ago, robert_d_negro said:

need a updated version

 

As Herowynne stated and just in case you want the nitty-gritty details:

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Talesien

[Leeyds4LLTS]

Tomb Raider quest is not resolving for me.  I keep finding and opening high level chests, and the Tomb Raider quest doesn't acknowledge that I accomplished the task.  This last time I have opened like 10 different ornate chests with no effect on the quest.   Is there a way to use console to resolve this?

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

Tomb Raider quest is not resolving for me.  I keep finding and opening high level chests, and the Tomb Raider quest doesn't acknowledge that I accomplished the task.

The probability of finding a valid boss chest to complete this quest is 100% if the developers marked it as a "boss" chest.  A boss chest is solely defined by whether the chest has the BossContainer tag.  It can be guarded by a daedric prince and be packed full of artifacts, but if it doesn't have that tag, it doesn't count.  Visually, these chests are typically the large ornate ones with a rounded top.

 

Besides the BossContainer tag, for a chest to be recognized for Tomb Raider it must contain either gold (that should be true for all of them, unless some mod is changing their loot) or lockpicks.

 

2 hours ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

This last time I have opened like 10 different ornate chests with no effect on the quest.   Is there a way to use console to resolve this?

The chance that any random chest that looks like a boss chest is good.  Skyrim has 335 valid boss chests (443 with DLC), and in time they respawn.  Chests added by mods are valid too if the developer marks it as a boss chest by using the BossContainer location reference type.

 

You can test whether a chest is correctly tagged as a boss chest.  Target it in the console and enter HasRefType BossContainer.