Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[kingsglaive]

13 minutes ago, nightfury1985 said:

 

Last I checked they don't work together.  I was suggesting making them work together, so when you summon a riding styles horse Lola's Mistress hops on the back while Lola hangs underneath...

 

With current technology, this is probably very difficult to do.
You can have a try.

In addition, there are few horse riding players in Skyrim, and many players do not ride horses, so there are not many users of this function.

Edited December 7, 2023 by kingsglaive

[Talesien]

56 minutes ago, nightfury1985 said:

 

Last I checked they don't work together.  I was suggesting making them work together, so when you summon a riding styles horse Lola's Mistress hops on the back while Lola hangs underneath...

As Kingsglaive already mentioned, having the Player and the follower using the same horse is nearly impossible with the Skyrim engine as is. That would require some major rewriting of some core functions, nothing that can't be done, but it would take a lot of time and knowledge, something only a handful of people have demonstrated so far and most of those seem uninterested in NSFW addons.
As things stand, the best you could hope for is the pc hanging below its horse while the follower rides another horse regular style.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It doesn't.  It's the exact same script function.  Are you using Ashal's SexLab, or an alternative? 

SexLab Framework AE v165

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'm open to that, but remember that I won't let Mistress give you a warm response.  We differ there.  You're always just a slave, and Mistress won't let you forget that.  Is it still worth it? 

As long as the response isn't openly psychotic like some of the answers to telling Mistress you love her, then I'd say it is.  There's nothing wrong with a matter-of-fact response like, "Thank you, Lola." (complimenting Mistress) or, "You're welcome, pet." (appreciating training).

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

(I wish that a suitable mod existed for those who want warmth, hugs, and concern from a follower who isn't an awestruck fan of the PC as the Mighty Dragonborn, but I'm not aware of one.)

Well, the addition of the Owner's Attitude setting opens the door for you to be the change you want to see in the world. ? I'm on board to help with any of the necessary writing as much as you need.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Understand that the orders to sweep again are most likely not because you didn't do a good job, but because the owner likes making you do it, so it wouldn't matter how much you swept.

I just don't accept that caprice and arbitrariness are necessary or even desirable properties of dominance.  I know it's not a perfect analogue, but if you read BDSM slave training guides and such, they pretty much universally caution against exactly that sort of thing (quick example: "be consistent" is #2).  I tend to see animal training as maybe the most useful analogue for SLTR, and in that space, too, caprice and unpredictability are explicitly cautioned against because it's so counterproductive.  I know some people get a thrill from that sort of thing—and I'm the last person to kink shame anyone—but I don't think that's in any way essential to dominance.

 

So maybe that should be governed by the hard to please owner setting, then?  If setting hard to please owner to zero prevented getting yelled at for doing what I'm told, that'd help a great deal.  Just having an automatic two sweeps every time would be a little boring, but I could live with a little boring.  You could combine that with my above proposal, though, so that, even if you do the max number, you still might get yelled at for those folks who want it.  I really think the ability to try to gamble and do a lazy job—at the risk of a punishment I'd actually deserve—would make the event a lot more interesting in both gameplay and roleplaying terms.  Bonus points if exceeding the quota gets you an extra praise from Mistress like with the whoring event.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I disagree.  "Motivation" is one of the harsher events (and it's optional), but it's a great way to show a new slave that you mean business.

Then it really needs a dialogue change.  The event isn't the problem; the dialogue is—it just makes no sense when you're freshly enslaved.  I didn't record the exact words, but it's something to the effect that, "You haven't been taking your service seriously."  Well, I haven't been taking my service anything—I just got here; give me a minute!  In my last playthrough, I created my character, hit "Enslave me now" on SS++, got collared, offered service immediately after the introductory talk still in the auction hall, and immediately got told I haven't been taking my service seriously.  That just doesn't work.  The dialogue is perfectly fine as-is as long as the event doesn't happen too early, though, hence my suggestion to just start it on cooldown.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't think I can factor it in, but if you come up with a patch you're welcome to post it here.

I'm like 97% sure you could accommodate Experience without affecting anything for non-users, but it's been months since I read through the documentation on the mod, and I'm no longer sure I remember how.  Let's put a pin in this, and I'll figure it out and get back to you.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

This is a nice idea, but I'd encourage you to take it a step further and don't use carriages either.  On foot, the world feels big, you have more encounters, and it's great for gathering ingredients.

I don't use them a ton, but the occasional carriage when I need to get from Riften to Solitude definitely makes the game more enjoyable.  The world feels big, so walking from one end to the other isn't always practical. ? Generally, I try to plan travel routes to have several productive destinations along my way.  I don't have a hard and fast rule, but most of the time, I'll walk to the next hold over to get to the next point on my route, but I'll take a carriage when I'd need to pass through several holds to get to anywhere I'd want to be.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Simple Slavery is not the right method because it gives the human player an easy out [...] with no SS outcome selected and be freed. 

I don't know that there's any reason you'd need to plan around players exploiting SS++ in that way.  Using a slave auction mod to get freed from slavery is a pretty obvious unintended path, and I don't think many players would configure things that way.  Why would you use these mods in the first place if you're just going to exploit your way out of slavery on an MCM technicality?  And if a player really does want to exploit the system in that way, why should you care to stop them?  Whatever tickles their pickles, no?  It's not like it'd be a perverse outcome that players would just fall into unexpectedly, and you could even put some safeguards in place—even just a text pane popup with a warning—to help players understand that the system is predicated on the assumption of having SS++ outcomes pre-configured.

 

As a general matter, I'd say it's very important to try to avoid creating exploits within gameplay, but you don't need to worry much about creating exploits within mod configuration.  That said, I think you could probably close this exploit, although it might be a fair bit of work to do, and there might be reasons why it'd be better to just leave the exploit as it is.  You could, for instance, go so far as to create a new MCM tab dedicated to managing your potential owners, and there you might have the option to manage them manually or to hand it off to SS++ as I've described, but this list could partly override SS++'s own outcomes. 

 

Actually, having an MCM tab to manage owners could have some other benefits, too.  For example, you could set the Owner's Attitude per owner instead of globally, so some potential buyers would be strict and others would be playful.  Or you could draw inspiration from the way NFF or SlaveTats handles configuring different targets individually.  That could be a pretty deep rabbit hole to fall down, though.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

As a practical matter, this would probably have to be triggered in the MCM (like switching owners),

If the player has to manually initiate it, I'd say that that largely defeats any emotional impact it could have.  The very essence of my idea is that the player is trying hard to succeed as a slave, and the mod / Mistress might still decide it isn't enough in spite of the player.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Antiope_Apollonia

[kingsglaive]

3 hours ago, Talesien said:

As Kingsglaive already mentioned, having the Player and the follower using the same horse is nearly impossible with the Skyrim engine as is. That would require some major rewriting of some core functions, nothing that can't be done, but it would take a lot of time and knowledge, something only a handful of people have demonstrated so far and most of those seem uninterested in NSFW addons.
As things stand, the best you could hope for is the pc hanging below its horse while the follower rides another horse regular style.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/11734

No, you are wrong. There is actually a module for riding a horse with a follower, but the functional animation he proposed in which the master rides a horse while the slave Lola is tied under the horse does not exist.

[Hex Bolt]

Kingsglaive beat me to it.  The Ride Sharing mod on Nexus (available for LE and SE) lets you share a mount with a follower.

 

Spoiler

 

I tried it sometime in the past and it worked okay.  You can choose to ride in front or back (letting the dominant character be in front to hold the reins seems appropriate).  You have to be careful with it.  It's been reported that NFF's companion horses default setting messes it up, but you can change that.  I ended up not using it because I frequently want to dismount to harvest herbs or to mine (the option in Convenient Horses for mounted harvesting never worked well for me), so it was riding itself that I didn't much like.

 

What I'd love is a mod to have a follower ride while the PC walks.

 

I don't see much opportunity to integrate a riding mod with this one, but it's a good example of how players can choose mods to supplement the submissive experience, in this case by riding behind the follower.  I might add Ride Sharing to a Suggested Mods section on the mod page.

Edited December 7, 2023 by HexBolt8

[Hex Bolt]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

SexLab Framework AE v165 [regarding spanking animations]

Well, scratch that possibility.  If you open the animation list during spanking (which is technically sex), note the incorrect animations and check their tags in SexLab.  Maybe something mistagged them.  However, that still wouldn't explain why it only happens with non followers.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

There's nothing wrong with a matter-of-fact response like, "Thank you, Lola." (complimenting Mistress) or, "You're welcome, pet." (appreciating training).

I'd be more like superior/condescending.  Training: "See, I told you that you'd thank me.  It's good to hear you acknowledge it."  Beauty: "Yes, I've seen how you look at me.  This is why you can never say no to me."

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I just don't accept that caprice and arbitrariness are necessary or even desirable properties of dominance.

Well, I've been pretty clear that this mod is not about a healthy relationship (and certainly not a modern-day one).  Owners aren't that nice; they enjoy exerting their power.  Perhaps you can consider it a character flaw in an otherwise fair dom.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

[Motivation event] The event isn't the problem; the dialogue is—it just makes no sense when you're freshly enslaved.  I didn't record the exact words, but it's something to the effect that, "You haven't been taking your service seriously." 

Ah, I see.  I'll have to conditionally change the wording for a new enslavement.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I'm like 97% sure you could accommodate Experience without affecting anything for non-users...

It says it's based on quest type and objectives completed.  I'm not willing to change those.  If there are keywords or other metadata that I can insert to help mods like that, that would be okay.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Why would you use these mods in the first place if you're just going to exploit your way out of slavery on an MCM technicality?

My general approach is to use enough deterrence to remove temptation and "keep an honest person honest", in the same way that devious devices lock but there are various ways to get around that if you really want to escape.

[DonQuiWho]

3 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

My general approach is to use enough deterrence to remove temptation and "keep an honest person honest", in the same way that devious devices lock but there are various ways to get around that if you really want to escape.

 

Hi

 

I appreciate that my recent, perhaps somewhat tongue in cheek, suggestion upstream didn't get any response, but do you mean that further developments to your mod will be more along the lines of a 'voluntary subservience' to the exclusion of any element of 'compulsive deterrence'?

 

Almost all the 'Player Slave' (a terrible term in itself!) mods here - I'm thinking of Devious Followers, SD+, Captured Dreams, Troubles of Heroine, even Kimy's DCL jail - are pretty much voluntarily masochistic, or plainly self abasing like TOH, in their approach, with very little, or indeed almost no, elements(s) of 'compulsive correction' when the player 'steps out of line'

 

Please don't get me wrong in asking this, as I really do appreciate that this is your mod, as are those of others, which quite rightly will reflect modders' own personal tastes, and must, to be sure,  make the time and trouble that you all put in to give us great experiences to play personally worthwhile, so I'm not asking for you to do something that you'd rather not, but can you just give us some idea as to whether or not a 'harder hand' might be a variant branch of experience which you might explore in future, or not as the case may be?

 

TIA for any response you feel might be fit

 

DQW

 

 

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

I appreciate that my recent, perhaps somewhat tongue in cheek, suggestion upstream didn't get any response, but do you mean that further developments to your mod will be more along the lines of a 'voluntary subservience' to the exclusion of any element of 'compulsive deterrence'?

Well, the part you quoted referred to preventing exploits by the human player, not by Lola.  Sometimes I don't comment on a post because I just don't have anything meaningful to say, such as when an idea isn't a bad fit but maybe needs more thought about how it might work and how practical it is.

 

The voluntary aspects are that enslavement begins with the PC's consent and can end whenever the PC wishes, unless it's initiated through the slave auction or if the owner reneges through the "kept forever" feature.  (There are also plenty of suggestions that although Lola might protest, she's actually enjoying her experiences (or will, in time), which might or might not be true for a specific character.)  Everything else is compulsory.  You can respond in various ways to orders, but you still have to do everything you're told.  Other than deals for extended contract time, you don't even get to bargain, as is sometimes suggested, because the owner can just make you do whatever the owner wants.  Deals and bargains are more a Devious Followers thing.  There are some limits on extreme content.  Lola will never be killed, seriously harmed, marked, or marred (the effects of physical punishments quickly fade).  Add-ons don't have to conform to such limits, though this mod will.  It keeps things more in line with a voluntary experience, but there's quite a lot of room for the owner to have fun.  I haven't been planning to change any of this.

Edited December 8, 2023 by HexBolt8

[MyNameIsnt]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

What I'd love is a mod to have a follower ride while the PC walks.

 

Zaria's Maria Eden (the WIP version) has an extremely similar if not exact feature - upon mounting a horse while the slave of a follower, the player will be forced to dismount. The horse gets renamed to "[dominant]'s Horse" and placed under the dominant's ownership. From there the follower will trot on the player's horse behind them as the player walks. (though this may be a combination of Maria Eden + follower behavior mods I have installed)

 

Obviously the overall tone of that mod is a lot more sinister and less about exploring sexual freedom than Submissive Lola, but it might be worth drawing inspiration from if you do end up choosing to go that route.

[kingsglaive]

I wonder if the Required Nudity function in Submissive Lola can be changed to this?
For example, Required Nudity functions such as Nudity at Home, Required Nudity rule, Nudity to please the owner, and Pony Express
Modify it so that Lola only needs to take off her armor gloves and boots, or modify it so that the player's undressing settings on Sexlab MCM are the same?
Some rings, necklaces and headbands are just decorations to make lola look more charming in Nudity.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, kingsglaive said:

Some rings, necklaces and headbands are just decorations to make lola look more charming in Nudity.

Jewelry, including circlets, is permitted unless it is tagged as armor or clothing (which is not typical). 

[kingsglaive]

On 2023/12/7 at AM1点05分, HexBolt8 said:

这不是一场家庭活动，但在小酒馆跳舞已经在我未来活动的清单上。

Also about the dance performance in the tavern.
I thought about something again, I wonder if it can be counted as a family task?
The master and Lola are at home at the same time, and when Lola requests service, the master will miss Lola's dance and song performance with Gleeman at the hotel. The master wants to watch it at home, so he orders Lola to invite a Gleeman to his home to perform with Lola again, or simply let him Playmates act as gleeman and perform together with lola.

[kingsglaive]

Just now, HexBolt8 said:

允许佩戴珠宝，包括头环，除非它被标记为盔甲或衣服（这不是典型的）。 

But some good-looking decorations will be defined as light armor or heavy armor.

[Hex Bolt]

29 minutes ago, kingsglaive said:

But some good-looking decorations will be defined as light armor or heavy armor.

Then that's a problem with the mod or mods that they come from.  They shouldn't treat jewelry as armor when it's not.  Of course, if these "decorations" actually do increase armor, then they are armor, not just pretty ornaments.  Normal jewelry is allowed by the nudity rules.

[kingsglaive]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

那么这就是它们所来自的一个或多个模组的问题。当珠宝不是盔甲时，他们不应该将其视为盔甲。当然，如果这些“装饰品”确实能增加护甲，那么它们就是护甲，而不仅仅是漂亮的装饰品。裸露规则允许使用普通珠宝。

Is it a non-armor type? Then I have a solution.
Then I can use SSEEdit to change the armor type.

 

Unfortunately, the headband cannot be equipped. I changed the headband to Normal jewelry and it has no armor, but I still get electric shocks.

Edited December 8, 2023 by kingsglaive

[Antiope_Apollonia]

4 hours ago, kingsglaive said:

Is it a non-armor type? Then I have a solution.
Then I can use SSEEdit to change the armor type.

 

Unfortunately, the headband cannot be equipped. I changed the headband to Normal jewelry and it has no armor, but I still get electric shocks.

SLTR doesn't check the armour type record; it just checks keywords.  Jewellery should typically have VendorItemJewelry and ClothingCirclet, ClothingRing, or ClothingNecklace.  It may also have JewelryExpensive.  Anything else probably doesn't belong there.  Lots of mod creators who are very good artists are very shite at actually organising this kind of thing in a way that's consistent with vanilla behaviour.

[kingsglaive]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

SLTR不检查装甲类型记录；它只是检查关键字。珠宝通常应具有 VendorItemJewelry 和 ClothingCirclet、ClothingRing 或 ClothingNecklace。它也可能有昂贵的珠宝。其他任何东西可能不属于那里。许多非常优秀的模组创作者都非常不擅长以与普通行为一致的方式实际组织这种事情。

So I hope to have a device that can directly synchronize with the undressing settings that come with Sexlab MCM. Some of the decorations are indeed very beautiful and do not affect the lola nudity vision.

[DonQuiWho]

13 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Well, the part you quoted referred to preventing exploits by the human player, not by Lola.  Sometimes I don't comment on a post because I just don't have anything meaningful to say, such as when an idea isn't a bad fit but maybe needs more thought about how it might work and how practical it is.

 

The voluntary aspects are that enslavement begins with the PC's consent and can end whenever the PC wishes, unless it's initiated through the slave auction or if the owner reneges through the "kept forever" feature.  (There are also plenty of suggestions that although Lola might protest, she's actually enjoying her experiences (or will, in time), which might or might not be true for a specific character.)  Everything else is compulsory.  You can respond in various ways to orders, but you still have to do everything you're told.  Other than deals for extended contract time, you don't even get to bargain, as is sometimes suggested, because the owner can just make you do whatever the owner wants.  Deals and bargains are more a Devious Followers thing.  There are some limits on extreme content.  Lola will never be killed, seriously harmed, marked, or marred (the effects of physical punishments quickly fade).  Add-ons don't have to conform to such limits, though this mod will.  It keeps things more in line with a voluntary experience, but there's quite a lot of room for the owner to have fun.  I haven't been planning to change any of this.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  Very helpfully too helpful. 

 

I'm really not looking for extreme experiences.  But I do tend to set my games up to be a challenge, configuring the mods I use to make gameplay progress something that has an underlying inherent risk of going wrong when being thrown off course by the bad boys and girls, or the goody twoshoe guards, but still retrievable by 'beating the game' through challenging and cunning management.

 

Consequently, I suppose I'm just less attracted to 'Do this, Do that' tasking scenarios.  Yes, they're a digression, but making a bowl of soup doesn't require half the cunning or thought needed to get your player and 2 or 3 followers safely through, or at worst back out of, a dungeon where the bad ppl have them pretty much wrapped up like kippers, unable to talk to each other, and with only one or two keys remaining to allow you to choose which of them can maybe be enabled to fight etc 

 

But thanks again for the mod.  From my experience, it does work well, and I'd recommend it to anyone to play with.  Especially if they want to have that little brat mage in Winterhold pulling their reins for a while ?

 

DQW

 

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

I suppose I'm just less attracted to 'Do this, Do that' tasking scenarios.  Yes, they're a digression, but making a bowl of soup doesn't require half the cunning or thought needed to get your player and 2 or 3 followers safely through, or at worst back out of, a dungeon where the bad ppl have them pretty much wrapped up like kippers, unable to talk to each other, and with only one or two keys remaining to allow you to choose which of them can maybe be enabled to fight etc 

Okay, now I understand what you were asking.  This is not a difficulty mod, and unlike some enslavement mods, there's no escape challenge.  By design, it doesn't complicate your ability to play the game other than for brief periods, so you won't (for example) have the challenge of fighting dragons in slave boots with bound hands.

 

Your observation that most of the mod's events are easy is accurate.  They're more intended to introduce sex, kink, and short-term bondage.  That said, some events do require a bit of effort and can be failed.  The gold sharing options can leave you with very little gold, if that's your thing.  "Run, Lola, Run" has a short time limit.  Sometimes I have to use stamina potions to succeed, which takes planning to carry enough.  "Confessions" is a simple memory challenge.  "Parade" requires you to stay close while following your owner.  Even the cooking event requires you to have meat, so if the innkeeper doesn't have any and you weren't carrying some (more challenging with a needs mod and food spoilage), you'll have to kill something quickly before time runs out.

 

Mostly, it's about being bossed around by a follower.  That won't be fun for everyone, and that's okay if someone tries it and decides it's just not what that person was looking for.

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Okay, now I understand what you were asking.  This is not a difficulty mod, and unlike some enslavement mods, there's no escape challenge.  By design, it doesn't complicate your ability to play the game other than for brief periods, so you won't (for example) have the challenge of fighting dragons in slave boots with bound hands.

 

Thanks very much for that reply.  I really appreciate it.  Those two sentences have it exactly!

 

There's a whole lot of people out there who will have a load of satisfaction with their experiences from your mod, and I'm sure that you'll keep them all happy with your/its inventiveness, and above all, its quality play

 

Take care, and have fun!

 

DQW

 

 

[just a temp]

i dont even know how but when ever i have sex with my charecters owner it TELEPORTS ME to a random giant camp in whiterun

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, just a temp said:

it TELEPORTS ME to a random giant camp in whiterun

This is a problem that sometimes happens with SexLab scenes, regardless of the mod that started the scene.  When SexLab tries to position the actors, something goes wrong.  When the game doesn't know where to put the PC, it defaults to the 0,0,0 coordinate on the world map, which is 5800 units in the air outside the Whiterun giant camp.  The SexLab problem seems to happen if you ever get nudged into a wall during a scene.  The only way I know to clear it is to try starting sex scenes in places with no furniture and away from walls until the problem goes away.

[just a temp]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

This is a problem that sometimes happens with SexLab scenes, regardless of the mod that started the scene.  When SexLab tries to position the actors, something goes wrong.  When the game doesn't know where to put the PC, it defaults to the 0,0,0 coordinate on the world map, which is 5800 units in the air outside the Whiterun giant camp.  The SexLab problem seems to happen if you ever get nudged into a wall during a scene.  The only way I know to clear it is to try starting sex scenes in places with no furniture and away from walls until the problem goes away.

thanks 

[kingsglaive]

I sometimes think that the master will let Lola go into prostitution, perform slut tricks (I Am Famous) to people, and admit to people that she is the slave and property of the master, and how happy it is to be tamed by the master.
Lola will also be asked to go to Bards College to invite gleeman to participate in the slut performance of Lola and her master. (The Naughty Nymph)
Then will the owner ask Lola to find a gleeman who writes well and write a story about Lola and the owner in the form of text? Write it into a book and sell it in Skyrim.
The content is roughly: Lola meets her master and becomes his slave. How does the master train Lola? What dark training has Lola experienced? How did Lola finally become a qualified sex slave?
This book will let people in Skyrim know the story of master and slave Lola.

In addition, the master will set up sex slave rules for Lola, and Lola must memorize them. The master will sometimes randomly check Lola, and Lola will usually be punished if she memorizes it wrongly.

Edited December 9, 2023 by kingsglaive

[r3mind]

I failed to reach 90+ score with the default settings (this is when my contract allows me to ask to get freed), because it almost doesn't increase and very easy to lose. Then my second devious follower started playing some dirty tricks and making degrading deals, so visiting any city becomes a nightmare. When Lola finally got to the High Hrothgar, an oldman insisted that she has to "train" her throat to learn new shouts (not sure which mod it was). I don't remember what happened next, but I guess Alduin will have to wait for another Dragonborn, a stronger one (or with a new set of mods/settings ).