Naked Defeat LE

[4nk8r]

Thank you so much for removing the DD requirement!  I had to give up so many mods when I ripped that out.  Just took up too many animations slots for my taste.  I kept exceeding 16384 animations when I used DD with all the other stuff I wanted (some popup in game was fussing about it exceeding that value...not sure what).

[asdasd123123]

4 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

ahahhaa thx alot. 
well, the artwork is from the big master Royo that made me learn about my BDSM fetish (one of his best artworks IMO).

 

I think ppl will not be as impressed when they explore my source code, looool

does the haircut feature u were testing work in the new release?

[Nymra]

14 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

Thank you so much for removing the DD requirement!  I had to give up so many mods when I ripped that out.  Just took up too many animations slots for my taste.  I kept exceeding 16384 animations

when I used DD with all the other stuff I wanted (some popup in game was fussing about it exceeding that value...not sure what).

 

that number means nothing. DD is not a big issue in a normal game. I have 17k animations right now and there are ppl who can have the FNIS maximum (I think 32k).

What popped up there was most likely DAR animation. Dunno why ppl use this mod. DAR Live Action on this site here just adds a shitton of new animations that you will 90% of most likely never see. 

I recommend looking for any DAR mods in your LO and think about if you really need them.

With this mod installed you should have virtually NO animation limit (except forwith DAR which seems to have other reasons)

 

 

[Nymra]

1 minute ago, asdasd123123 said:

does the haircut feature u were testing work in the new release?

 

only the haircut part. it will still not regrow itself. it has low priority sorry, I never use that kind of stuff myself. 
I will have to see how other mods achieved that first  

[4nk8r]

40 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

that number means nothing. DD is not a big issue in a normal game. I have 17k animations right now and there are ppl who can have the FNIS maximum (I think 32k).

What popped up there was most likely DAR animation. Dunno why ppl use this mod. DAR Live Action on this site here just adds a shitton of new animations that you will 90% of most likely never see. 

I recommend looking for any DAR mods in your LO and think about if you really need them.

With this mod installed you should have virtually NO animation limit (except forwith DAR which seems to have other reasons)

 

 

I have the SE version of this.  Not sure what mod was fussing, but I'll investigate DAR and see if that is the source.  Thanks for the tip.  Other than the annoying popup in game, nothing crashed or seem to fail otherwise that I could tell.

[hydra-2000]

8 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

can you be more specific here?
 

what is a "POP cane"?
this mod uses this whip: "zbfWeaponCane "zbf Punishment Cane" [WEAP:06006004]" which is the ZaZ cane and to my understanding all mods use it.

 

Usually, attacks should never push you out of an animation. So you have to have a Combat mod that adds combat stagger/pushbacks on hit and/or a poise system. 
For me: I use Active Combat and even with Combat stagger activated my PC is never pushed out of the animation.

 

If you could specify which combat mods you are using I could see if I can test them myself to track down this problem.

 

anyway: how do you know that the cane is recognized as a two handed weapon? 

It appears to be a weapon in each hands, not a two-handed weapon. However, the whip only depends on the right hand, and the left hand is the bare fist. In that state, the NPC use strong attacks, and the character is pushed back and released from bondage or pose. Because of this, it is difficult for me to use POP or other whip mode.

[Betal]

Does this version (2.2) work well with SSE?

And Naked Defeat - SE patch (all Versions).7z

Could use for 2.2?

 

 

[NicoleDragoness]

Ok, some deep testing (with version 2.2 btw).

 

1. You were right. Falling from high (Animated Wings and Fly System to try), makes the Player entering bleedout and then ND starts even with no enemies around. After a while (my computer is an old cheap 32 bit), a bit more than only one minute, ND closes itself and I can move again. Anyway, ND goes through all its cycles (You are fucked! - Run and so on).

 

2. During "normal" combat defeat also ND seems to work fine but I always suffer from a strange message in the top left corner (too quick to read right) that seems to say "error (-1) already done captured quest". This means that I almost cannot escape at all. Enemies reaggro and hit the Player (unable to move at all) and then the cycle restart (almost infinite loops).

I was able to escape once only because enemies went very far and I had time to regain movements (Probably cheap computer issues: like script lag and so on).

 

3. Strange Bugthesda thing. Using the Shout "Bend Will" on enemies makes them friendly. So they start to fight each other (the "bended" ones against the not bended).

   BUT ... in this case never hit the bended ones (now friendly) with weapons or other shouts because my follower (Lucien) became instantly hostile and hit me making the Player bleedout. Then the other ex enemies start ND rape cycles (as above) while my stupid follower bleeds out himself. Gosh!

 

3. IMPORTANT NOTE:  NEVER use the console "kill" on Player to test the mod. The Player enters into the vanilla "rumble bleedout", ND starts then finish after a while BUT the Player will stay stuck into rumble and unable to do anything forever.

[Dreamer1986]

I don't know if something is wrong in just my install, but when I was about to be sent by the mod automatically to Simple Slavery the game just crashed. If I go to Simple S with the debug key it works fine. The last two lines in the papyrus log before the crash are "[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] Received new slave Mod Event
[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] DFC - Suspend re-entry from [SSLV_MainScr <SimpleSlavery (5C00492E)>]" 

[Nymra]

2 hours ago, Betal said:

Does this version (2.2) work well with SSE?

And Naked Defeat - SE patch (all Versions).7z

Could use for 2.2?

 

 

 

it says all versions. (so yes)

even the textures from RapeHands should work on SSE. 

[Nymra]

  

22 minutes ago, Dreamer1986 said:

I don't know if something is wrong in just my install, but when I was about to be sent by the mod automatically to Simple Slavery the game just crashed. If I go to Simple S with the debug key it works fine. The last two lines in the papyrus log before the crash are "[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] Received new slave Mod Event
[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] DFC - Suspend re-entry from [SSLV_MainScr <SimpleSlavery (5C00492E)>]" 

 

which version of simple slavery are you using? 

did this happen repeatedly or just one time? 

For me it looks like the crash happened on Simple SLavery side, hmm. Did not see that there was any changes to how their mod events work.

 

how do other mods behave that send you there? 

[Nymra]

4 hours ago, hydra-2000 said:

It appears to be a weapon in each hands, not a two-handed weapon. However, the whip only depends on the right hand, and the left hand is the bare fist. In that state, the NPC use strong attacks, and the character is pushed back and released from bondage or pose. Because of this, it is difficult for me to use POP or other whip mode.

 

I still have no answer to important questions:

do you have any combat mod that adds combat stagger, poise or even ragdoll events? if you have a mod that adds perks to NPC it could have a powerfull attack that causes ragdoll.

This is impossible to fix on my side. you need to fix your game to allow whipping (I had to do the same) by disabling some options in your combat mods .

[Nymra]

2 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

Ok, some deep testing (with version 2.2 btw).

 

1. You were right. Falling from high (Animated Wings and Fly System to try), makes the Player entering bleedout and then ND starts even with no enemies around. After a while (my computer is an old cheap 32 bit), a bit more than only one minute, ND closes itself and I can move again. Anyway, ND goes through all its cycles (You are fucked! - Run and so on).

 

I will try to adress this in the next update by improving the debug key and check the mod events that should end the mod early. but its a whole new thing for me to dive in, so it could take a while.

 

 

2 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

 

2. During "normal" combat defeat also ND seems to work fine but I always suffer from a strange message in the top left corner (too quick to read right) that seems to say "error (-1) already done captured quest". This means that I almost cannot escape at all. Enemies reaggro and hit the Player (unable to move at all) and then the cycle restart (almost infinite loops).

I was able to escape once only because enemies went very far and I had time to regain movements (Probably cheap computer issues: like script lag and so on).

 

I could not find out why the capturequest can break and when and how to repair it, sadly. its and artifact from the original code (the feature already existed back then). 

escape should be equally hard no matter if you were in furniture or not. Only in furniture NPC have time to move away from you.

If escape is too challenging you can increase the "alarm timer" in the MCM. 

 

if you are unable to move, hit EPC in console or wait for short time. But basically when the mod message "you should run" appears your player controls should be back, hmm. 
Now I wont blame that on script lag, but it can surely be part of the cause. 

in the code its -> regain controls, -> message -> wait time 1 second (this is the alarm timer standard) -> NPC reaggro. 

 

 

2 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

 

3. Strange Bugthesda thing. Using the Shout "Bend Will" on enemies makes them friendly. So they start to fight each other (the "bended" ones against the not bended).

   BUT ... in this case never hit the bended ones (now friendly) with weapons or other shouts because my follower (Lucien) became instantly hostile and hit me making the Player bleedout. Then the other ex enemies start ND rape cycles (as above) while my stupid follower bleeds out himself. Gosh!

 

ahahaha, yes lol. factions.... I only started realising how strange these behave, dont know where to start o_O
I remember similar things and I think there are some mods to fix this by increasing the hits allowed on friendlies before they turn hostile. 

funny story still, maybe a small magical misshap on the shout, hehe. sounds like the caster maybe WANTED that to happen, teehee.

 

but yeah, I feel you ^^

 

2 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

 

3. IMPORTANT NOTE:  NEVER use the console "kill" on Player to test the mod. The Player enters into the vanilla "rumble bleedout", ND starts then finish after a while BUT the Player will stay stuck into rumble and unable to do anything forever.

 

oh lol
yeah, dunno how that would work out. I wanted to make killmoves work on essential PC but it seems to be impossible for the same reason. 

But I want to add "player pushback", meaning a ragdoll on defeat (optionally). 

[Nymra]

 

22 minutes ago, Dreamer1986 said:

I don't know if something is wrong in just my install, but when I was about to be sent by the mod automatically to Simple Slavery the game just crashed. If I go to Simple S with the debug key it works fine. The last two lines in the papyrus log before the crash are "[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] Received new slave Mod Event
[04/15/2021 - 02:08:54PM] DFC - Suspend re-entry from [SSLV_MainScr <SimpleSlavery (5C00492E)>]" 

 

which version of simple slavery are you using? 

did this happen repeatedly or just one time? 

For me it looks like the crash happened on Simple SLavery side, hmm. Did not see that there was any changes to how their mod events work.

 

in skyrim some crashes can happen. if it repeats itself check other mods that send you to SS and maybe ask there. 
it works for me here, both variants worked (debug hotkey and slavery outcome). 

[Dreamer1986]

6 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

 

which version of simple slavery are you using? 

did this happen repeatedly or just one time? 

For me it looks like the crash happened on Simple SLavery side, hmm. Did not see that there was any changes to how their mod events work.

 

in skyrim some crashes can happen. if it repeats itself check other mods that send you to SS and maybe ask there. 
it works for me here, both variants worked (debug hotkey and slavery outcome). 

Yes, maybe its just some random crash, I will test more and see if it happens again. Every time I pressed the debug key it worked fine, just when it was that random chance triggered it crashed. 

[hydra-2000]

28 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

I still have no answer to important questions:

do you have any combat mod that adds combat stagger, poise or even ragdoll events? if you have a mod that adds perks to NPC it could have a powerfull attack that causes ragdoll.

This is impossible to fix on my side. you need to fix your game to allow whipping (I had to do the same) by disabling some options in your combat mods .

 

I have received such an answer before. But that doesn't happen when I use Pama´s Interactive Beatup Module mod.. And the mod uses the zaz tools.

 

[Nymra]

5 minutes ago, hydra-2000 said:

 

I have received such an answer before. But that doesn't happen when I use Pama´s Interactive Beatup Module mod.. And the mod uses the zaz tools.

 

 

 I cannot help you when you do not provide answers to my questions

Pamas mod works very different and its whipping is more of a controlled scene. 

[DonQuiWho]

@Nymra

 

Just some very quick feedback from a VERY limited test run.  This is written from the perspective of having used Goubo's classic, Defeat, for many years, presently the Banemaster 3 version, without DAYMOYL.  I also play with the ability to forge restraint keys (from DD base mods) and DD Helpers, ie followers who can carry keys to help you escape - but only if they havent already run out, or had them nicked by the bad guys  I have never played NDUN

 

Also, I couldn't do any of this whatsoever, so I'm not trying to complain at all but add some hopefully constructive comments

 

The main issues I have with the classic Defeat version are that

 

- it lacks some more modern variety in the immediate combat outcome and consequences when the PC & Followers have been beaten

- its handling of post battle outcomes is out of date, and although you can select post event DD consequences, although the use of DD allows a more realistic challenge than ZaZ items do, the restraining device options have not kept up with DDs developments

 

I like that

 

- it plays well - it really does! - if you know what you are doing and have learnt how to sort out the odd quirk/glitch

- it allows the story to remain 'reasonably' linear, without bouncing you around all over Skyrim, like DCL sometimes can, seriously disrupting any real attempt at a proper playthgrough

- it provides for a wide range of possible enemy engagements, unlike DCL, or even, I think, 'Peril'

- it also provides NPC v NPC - although I doubt that that's in your scope here

 

Insofar as Naked Defeat is (at present stage of development) to be compared to that, and improve on what Defeat is presently, then

 

- the preservation of some game linearity seems OK at the moment.  Nothing peculiar seems to throw you away into the dark edges of Skyrim

- follower handling really needs some essential work.  It's utterly weird seeing your followers walking around like a bunch of lost tourists lost  taking in the sights when the PC is being pounded on the floor, and then once that's done, collapsing in a heap beside her  LOL  Even if they were just restrained at the start and dumped to one side, it would be better

- the main event development is creative, shows very imaginative streaks and the use of fixed restraint devices and furniture options is good.  I'm sure that you'll develop those just fine.  Escape mechanisms could maybe be made more challenging in due course?

- post event escape really needs some work.  Think like a bad guy.  You should have the PC and followers properly restrained, or in the game there should be a good chance that they will be, so that as a confirmed baddie, you have a reasonable chance of returning 'for afters'. Even if the PC & Co do escape from the immediate vicinity, then they should probably do so in a state where their combat capability is going to be hindered - EDIT Corsec's Kharos' handling of properly devious DDs on NPCs is good for that.  The DD Helpers mod, or some built in equivalent could be used here by the player, but please, only use standard release mechanisms, whichever framework you do use! 

- some other post event, creative alternatives could also be good, eg the despatch of your followers to other locations, maybe even split up, one or more thoroughly restrained deeper in the present dungeon, and the others 'sold seperately' elsewhere - Nazeem's farm ?, Lucian's house skivvy, a bandit camp, or locked up in one of Inte's SD cages etc. There is a mod that can do something like that latter option, but it's not got particularly interesting outcomes.  You should have to have to fight, or steal them,  to get them back

 

I know that you have the DD and Non DD factions to deal with, and if you can't do both frameworks, so to speak, and have to make a choice, my take on that is that at present the DD route is the one that provides for not only more compatibility, but also more 'realism'.    

 

(And if you can somehow add a soft dependency on Inte's DDe, the scope for custom restraint outfits becomes pretty well limitless  LOL )

 

Hope that's of some help

 

[Nymra]

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

@Nymra

 

Just some very quick feedback from a VERY limited test run.  This is written from the perspective of having used Goubo's classic, Defeat, for many years, presently the Banemaster 3 version, without DAYMOYL.  I also play with the ability to forge restraint keys (from DD base mods) and DD Helpers, ie followers who can carry keys to help you escape - but only if they havent already run out, or had them nicked by the bad guys  I have never played NDUN

 

Also, I couldn't do any of this whatsoever, so I'm not trying to complain at all but add some hopefully constructive comments

 

The main issues I have with the classic Defeat version are that

 

- it lacks some more modern variety in the immediate combat outcome and consequences when the PC & Followers have been beaten

- its handling of post battle outcomes is out of date, and although you can select post event DD consequences, although the use of DD allows a more realistic challenge than ZaZ items do, the restraining device options have not kept up with DDs developments

 

I like that

 

- it plays well - it really does! - if you know what you are doing and have learnt how to sort out the odd quirk/glitch

- it allows the story to remain 'reasonably' linear, without bouncing you around all over Skyrim, like DCL sometimes can, seriously disrupting any real attempt at a proper playthgrough

- it provides for a wide range of possible enemy engagements, unlike DCL, or even, I think, 'Peril'

- it also provides NPC v NPC - although I doubt that that's in your scope here

 

One of my goals is making this mod Defeat compatible, but I noticed in my tests, that the problem is on defeats side.

When surrendering via hotkey (which is necessary for the "trick" to work, the PC is teleported from NPC to NPC instead of the NPC come to the place where the PC is to rape.

That leads to alot of clipping and in general very bad sex. 

The whole "find a good spot" thing is what made Naked Defeat work for me as combat defeat in the first place. Even NDUN originally had the "fuck where you die" thing, which was 50% of the time just ugly (haha, pun intended).

 

Outcomes: agree -> this is one of the major priorities of mine in terms of improving and expanding the content. I will grow my skills while I do this hopefully.

Defeat playing well: > I had the exact oppositve experience. defeat had too much talking, which got annoying very fast, always troubles with creatures somehow and other stuff I cannot remember.

I recently got some tips on how to use Defeat with Daymol and I will give that a try to see if I can hook into that or get inspiration.

 

Naked Defeat (NADE) also wants to

- play well 

- linear story (stay in place, get action still)

- engagement range; yes! I even want to try and customize the scenes and outcomes based on the aggressors, but that is still future talk

- NPC vs NPC will never happen in NADE (unless I find out it is easy enough to do when I have follower supprort. I mean that is also NPC vs NPC, haha. there are mods for this and I never understood the need for this in any case honestly. I had that feature on and I do not remember having seen any such scene ever still while using defeat

 

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Insofar as Naked Defeat is (at present stage of development) to be compared to that, and improve on what Defeat is presently, then

 

- follower handling really needs some essential work.  It's utterly weird seeing your followers walking around like a bunch of lost tourists lost  taking in the sights when the PC is being pounded on the floor, and then once that's done, collapsing in a heap beside her  LOL  Even if they were just restrained at the start and dumped to one side, it would be better

yeaaah, the followers. 
I tried for 2 days (20 hours...) to get followers work, but somehow they never registered correctly (in the papyrus log they were defined as some wc_deadcleanupscript or ambushscript so something went totally wrong there. the whole scene setup is basically there, just the SL threads never started because of this. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

- the main event development is creative, shows very imaginative streaks and the use of fixed restraint devices and furniture options is good.  I'm sure that you'll develop those just fine.  Escape mechanisms could maybe be made more challenging in due course?

 

I m not sure how to work with the escape mechanics.

I m not a fan of keyboard games (codeserpent had a mod where he uses something like that), but for me I wanna have some eye candy and not look at popups or message spam while my poor PC is struggling.

for me its gameplay vs. realism vs. purpose here

 

gameplay -> you should have to do at least SOMETHING (wiggle key)

but gameplay also restricts the punishment in a way that it should allow escape. if not, the whole thing is turning into a local slavery thing and that is already covered by other mods

 

realism -> you CAN escape from restraints. difficulty is game balance, but well, its not totally unreasonable. you could also argue your rapers are just sadist and want it to go this way, sure that they ll catch u anyway

 

purpose -> the purpose is to show and use the incredible rich resources of the ZAP framework, which DD will never reach (it has a different focus, tho) and no other mod really does to this point.

I want to expand on this and make little scenarios with different furniture types (bound low -> get peed and masturabted on) -> bound high used as targeting practice?

but the main purpose is: have the opportunity to see something nice on screen (like with the sex scenes). I m also not a fan of SLSO and dont use it (while I think I will test it again, I think it can be configured to my liking still) 

 

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

- post event escape really needs some work.  Think like a bad guy.  You should have the PC and followers properly restrained, or in the game there should be a good chance that they will be, so that as a confirmed baddie, you have a reasonable chance of returning 'for afters'. Even if the PC & Co do escape from the immediate vicinity, then they should probably do so in a state where their combat capability is going to be hindered - Corsec's handling of properly devious DDs on NPCs is good for that.  The DD Helpers mod, or some built in equivalent could be used here by the player, but please, only use standard release mechanisms, whichever framework you do use! 

 

see the points above.

this is a walk on the edge between "impossible to escape lengthy defeat mod" vs "local slavery". I do not want either of that. 

 

after the furniture game there will be no further restraints, u escape, you are free, gogo
But I want to add additional scenes and punishments while bound, when you fail to wiggle free fast enough. 
 

DD outcomes will be seperate, meaning you will either bound in DDe sets OR put in furniture. 

 

I will also in fact try to add my own DD struggle free mechanic here. 
It is because I dont like DDs approach here at all (pop up spam....) and I dont like integrating content that I do not fully endorse. 
My idea is a one hotkey - no popup, fully customizeable wiggle free game that is basically similar to my furniture escape.

It will automatically try to wiggle out of the most obvious restraints first (1. arms, 2. blindfold, 3. legs, 4. gag 5. everything else) 

keys etc will only add to chances. 

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

- some other post event, creative alternatives could also be good, eg the despatch of your followers to other locations, maybe even split up, one or more thoroughly restrained deeper in the present dungeon, and the others 'sold seperately' elsewhere - Nazeem's farm ?, Lucian's house skivvy, a bandit camp, or locked up in one of Inte's SD cages etc. There is a mod that can do something like that latter option, but it's not got particularly interesting outcomes.  You should have to have to fight, or steal them,  to get them back

 

follower support will most likely never go deep. I do not use followers myself (I cannot put HDT stuff on them because of the stretching bug, so I rather dont use them at all) and I think my skill as a scripter might never reach a point where I can really adress the needs of all the follower mods and frameworks out there. I tried to look at it but I got a headache instantly ^^

 

SD Cages support is something I want to look at. But honestly dont need it. I can just spawn ZAZ cages way faster and in all locations already. 

 

All the "beeing sold" stuff should be handled by the framework that is made for it: Simple Slavery. 

But when I get better with codes: I REALLY like the "split up" of the followers idea. Will take a serious note here (since I see there is already maybe suitable code in the NDUN base)

 

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

I know that you have the DD and Non DD factions to deal with, and if you can't do both frameworks, so to speak, and have to make a choice, my take on that is that at present the DD route is the one that provides for not only more compatibility, but also more 'realism'.    

 

Hmm, well. I try to use both ZAZ and DD. Zaz for furnitures and just "visual" bondage (leather binds during sex in this case). 

What I dont like about DD is its policy and how it handles animation filters in DD 5.

its a big topic and I will be happy enough when I get DDe running with this and strip yokes and armbinders BEFORE furniture game. (both are my No1 priority DD points)

 

10 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

 

(And if you can somehow add a soft dependency on Inte's DDe, the scope for custom restraint outfits becomes pretty well limitless  LOL )

 

Hope that's of some help

 

 

yes and yes

thx alot.

 

I really love working on this and never thought I could pull this off. But also I feel like the real work is only just beginning! 

[Nymra]

3 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

 

1. You were right. Falling from high (Animated Wings and Fly System to try), makes the Player entering bleedout and then ND starts even with no enemies around. After a while (my computer is an old cheap 32 bit), a bit more than only one minute, ND closes itself and I can move again. Anyway, ND goes through all its cycles (You are fucked! - Run and so on).

 

 

btw:

can you prodive a papyrus log for this? there is another issue that is possible. because "You are Fucked" should not play when there is no enemy around. hmm.

[DonQuiWho]

14 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

One of my goals is making this mod Defeat compatible, but I noticed in my tests, that the problem is on defeats side.

When surrendering via hotkey (which is necessary for the "trick" to work, the PC is teleported from NPC to NPC instead of the NPC come to the place where the PC is to rape.

That leads to alot of clipping and in general very bad sex. 

The whole "find a good spot" thing is what made Naked Defeat work for me as combat defeat in the first place. Even NDUN originally had the "fuck where you die" thing, which was 50% of the time just ugly (haha, pun intended).

 

Outcomes: agree -> this is one of the major priorities of mine in terms of improving and expanding the content. I will grow my skills while I do this hopefully.

Defeat playing well: > I had the exact oppositve experience. defeat had too much talking, which got annoying very fast, always troubles with creatures somehow and other stuff I cannot remember.

I recently got some tips on how to use Defeat with Daymol and I will give that a try to see if I can hook into that or get inspiration.

 

Naked Defeat (NADE) also wants to

- play well 

- linear story (stay in place, get action still)

- engagement range; yes! I even want to try and customize the scenes and outcomes based on the aggressors, but that is still future talk

- NPC vs NPC will never happen in NADE (unless I find out it is easy enough to do when I have follower supprort. I mean that is also NPC vs NPC, haha. there are mods for this and I never understood the need for this in any case honestly. I had that feature on and I do not remember having seen any such scene ever still while using defeat

 

 

yeaaah, the followers. 
I tried for 2 days (20 hours...) to get followers work, but somehow they never registered correctly (in the papyrus log they were defined as some wc_deadcleanupscript or ambushscript so something went totally wrong there. the whole scene setup is basically there, just the SL threads never started because of this. 

 

 

 

I m not sure how to work with the escape mechanics.

I m not a fan of keyboard games (codeserpent had a mod where he uses something like that), but for me I wanna have some eye candy and not look at popups or message spam while my poor PC is struggling.

for me its gameplay vs. realism vs. purpose here

 

gameplay -> you should have to do at least SOMETHING (wiggle key)

but gameplay also restricts the punishment in a way that it should allow escape. if not, the whole thing is turning into a local slavery thing and that is already covered by other mods

 

realism -> you CAN escape from restraints. difficulty is game balance, but well, its not totally unreasonable. you could also argue your rapers are just sadist and want it to go this way, sure that they ll catch u anyway

 

purpose -> the purpose is to show and use the incredible rich resources of the ZAP framework, which DD will never reach (it has a different focus, tho) and no other mod really does to this point.

I want to expand on this and make little scenarios with different furniture types (bound low -> get peed and masturabted on) -> bound high used as targeting practice?

but the main purpose is: have the opportunity to see something nice on screen (like with the sex scenes). I m also not a fan of SLSO and dont use it (while I think I will test it again, I think it can be configured to my liking still) 

 

 

 

see the points above.

this is a walk on the edge between "impossible to escape lengthy defeat mod" vs "local slavery". I do not want either of that. 

 

after the furniture game there will be no further restraints, u escape, you are free, gogo
But I want to add additional scenes and punishments while bound, when you fail to wiggle free fast enough. 
 

DD outcomes will be seperate, meaning you will either bound in DDe sets OR put in furniture. 

 

I will also in fact try to add my own DD struggle free mechanic here. 
It is because I dont like DDs approach here at all (pop up spam....) and I dont like integrating content that I do not fully endorse. 
My idea is a one hotkey - no popup, fully customizeable wiggle free game that is basically similar to my furniture escape.

It will automatically try to wiggle out of the most obvious restraints first (1. arms, 2. blindfold, 3. legs, 4. gag 5. everything else) 

keys etc will only add to chances. 

 

 

follower support will most likely never go deep. I do not use followers myself (I cannot put HDT stuff on them because of the stretching bug, so I rather dont use them at all) and I think my skill as a scripter might never reach a point where I can really adress the needs of all the follower mods and frameworks out there. I tried to look at it but I got a headache instantly ^^

 

SD Cages support is something I want to look at. But honestly dont need it. I can just spawn ZAZ cages way faster and in all locations already. 

 

All the "beeing sold" stuff should be handled by the framework that is made for it: Simple Slavery. 

But when I get better with codes: I REALLY like the "split up" of the followers idea. Will take a serious note here (since I see there is already maybe suitable code in the NDUN base)

 

 

 

Hmm, well. I try to use both ZAZ and DD. Zaz for furnitures and just "visual" bondage (leather binds during sex in this case). 

What I dont like about DD is its policy and how it handles animation filters in DD 5.

its a big topic and I will be happy enough when I get DDe running with this and strip yokes and armbinders BEFORE furniture game. (both are my No1 priority DD points)

 

 

yes and yes

thx alot.

 

I really love working on this and never thought I could pull this off. But also I feel like the real work is only just beginning! 

 

Ta for the full response.  Agree with a lot of what you are saying

 

As an aside and, FWIW, I never ever use the basic DD struggle mechanism.  No self respecting bad person would be as lax as allow you to just wriggle loose.  'Shake it off' is something for Taylor Swift fans only.  ?

 

Hence my use of the key helper mods to allow followers to help you out when needed.  The idea is to prevent you all getting 3/4 of the way through a dungeon and then find that the PC and followers get so restrained that you all have to go trudge back to the entrance, walk back to town to find a blacksmith or whoever, and then go all the way through the dungeon again to where you found it impossible to go further.  And if you get really unlucky, have to do it all over again after the next 9 yards

 

You have to balance the key use. You don't cheat by taking in an unlimited amount.  Then, do you choose to just leave one follower so restrained as to be useless, but preserve enough keys to cover your player and the rest of the team?  Do you have to decide which restraints the PC absolutely needs to have removed, while leaving on others, to conserve the key stock?  And just sometimes it really does get to the point where the whole party is inescapably bound and has to exit the place quickly, but then, well, it's your PC's own fault that they didn't prepare well enough in advance .... LOL 

 

Wish you well in your endeavours

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

 

Ta for the full response.  Agree with a lot of what you are saying

 

As an aside and, FWIW, I never ever use the basic DD struggle mechanism.  No self respecting bad person would be as lax as allow you to just wriggle loose.  'Shake it off' is something for Taylor Swift fans only.  ?

 

Hence my use of the key helper mods to allow followers to help you out when needed.  The idea is to prevent you all getting 3/4 of the way through a dungeon and then find that the PC and followers get so restrained that you all have to go trudge back to the entrance, walk back to town to find a blacksmith or whoever, and then go all the way through the dungeon again to where you found it impossible to go further.  And if you get really unlucky, have to do it all over again after the next 9 yards

 

You have to balance the key use. You don't cheat by taking in an unlimited amount.  Then, do you choose to just leave one follower so restrained as to be useless, but preserve enough keys to cover your player and the rest of the team?  Do you have to decide which restraints the PC absolutely needs to have removed, while leaving on others, to conserve the key stock?  And just sometimes it really does get to the point where the whole party is inescapably bound and has to exit the place quickly, but then, well, it's your PC's own fault that they didn't prepare well enough in advance .... LOL 

 

Wish you well in your endeavours

 

 

ah, you make a good point there. 
reminds me how I tried to integrate the keys in my game way back in 2019. 

Should pick (lol) that up again since its a really good concept.

 

Struggle thing is: DD has very nice animations for that. I think for some devices those even play when you are using a key.

for me usually even the step to enter inventory and select a DD to drop was immersion breaking and "too much". 
maybe you also have a solution for this?

I ll be honest, I might have missed 1-2 nice DD addons out there. I banned DDs from my game 2 years ago (still have DD, but I dont let most mods equip them) and only slowly start to reintegrate them. 

[Nymra]

Questions to the crowd:

 

1. SL Defeat

anybody wants to test if Sexlab Defeat works alongside Naked Defeat without SM Essential player? I mean for the NPC vs NPC function. 
In Sexlab Defeat when you turn off Follower Defeat and PC defeat and only leave activated: NPC vs NPC and PC rapes NPC if that makes the mod working alongside Naked  Defeat?

 

2. DDe and Submissive Lola and Devious Followers

when DDe equips an outfit it will remove all previous DDs equiped, including I think collars from these mods.

How will this work out? @HexBolt8 sorry to summon you here, but I was just about to start integrating DDe when I wondered if it will not bring its own incompatibilities.

 

Or will these mods just recognized the newly equiped collars (I remember Lola should?!). But also meaning that the DDe outfits HAVe to include collars.

What about a yoke or prisoner chain, both I think do not allow collars at the same time. 

Uuuugh, the compatibility game is full on... 

[NicoleDragoness]

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

because "You are Fucked" should not play when there is no enemy around. hmm.

It could be because I had a not-vanilla follower with me (Lucien).

Being a friendly follower he didn't really fucked me but, maybe because not in the vanilla follower system, the NADE scripts took him as count.

And ... sorry but I never enabled the papyrus logging (too much stress on an already stressed system).

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

when DDe equips an outfit it will remove all previous DDs equiped, including I think collars from these mods.

How will this work out? @HexBolt8 sorry to summon you here, but I was just about to start integrating DDe when I wondered if it will not bring its own incompatibilities.

Summoned, as in appears in a puff of smoke?  I seem to have acquired a new ability.  Or is it a curse?  ?

 

My understanding is that DD won't replace one devious device with another that goes in that slot unless the optional parameter to force that replacement is used.  However, I don't think that it checks for non devious devices, so if the actor is wearing an armor accessory or Zaz item in that slot, it would be replaced.  Mods usually usually check for keywords on worn items before trying to equip a device, to avoid conflicts between Zaz and DD.