Peril

[Lupine00]

Thanks for the update.

The end of combat timer sounds like it should solve a number of problems with defeats that lack a cause that Peril can find.

 

Can you explain how the consequence chances work now, so we can best understand how to set them up?

 

The weight system I understood - weights are straightforward - but chances seems to imply an order of testing?

 

Presumably, there is a logical reason for testing in a certain order, and some things prevent further testing, and others do not?

It sounds more complicated for the user to understand, though I'm guessing it was done for reasons of extensibility?

 

I haven't installed and played 2.0 yet, so maybe this will all be crystal clear, but maybe not. Understanding your thinking would help, probably.

Alas, I won't get to try until later, as I have work to do now.

[Code Serpent]

8 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Can you explain how the consequence chances work now, so we can best understand how to set them up?

The way it should work is that a scenario is chosen at random out of the (currently) 9 available. If the scenario can proceed, a random number is compared against the chance of the scenario happening, determining if that scenario is used, or if the mod tries a different scenario. If no scenarios are chosen, the defeat ends with the fallback of the enemies simply letting you go.

 

This was done because of the restructuring. Before, I called a function that used the weighted system to determine which line of dialogue enemies said, and which scenario to use, but this was hard to expand on. Now, I'm using the dialogue system's own random function in addition to this random condition to choose which scenario to use, which is much easier to expand onto.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

Now, I'm using the dialogue system's own random function

Ironically, that's what I just got rid of in DF.

One problem was that you couldn't add alternate dialogs without biasing the chance, the other is that the dialog systems randomness is a bit suspect, I think. (Though not the random function, just how it selects dialogs when there are multiple candidates).

The biggest problem was that it limited the complexity of decisions made on whether a deal was appropriate to offer.

It's easier to avoid reoffering the same deal twice if the player refuses, and also possible to swap in a less random way to decide on deal offers.

 

I put stuff in an array and pick an ID out of it at random. Only eligible deals are added as candidates. It's simpler to maintain than before because there is now only one condition in the dialog, and I can edit a Papyrus file more easily than keeping a lot of dialog conditions straight, and yet the eligibility conditions for each deal can easily be made more complex. 

 

But I imagine it's quite a different situation for Peril. I don't have to deal with weighting, or any chance configuration, though that could be added with a second array.

 

In any case, I see how the chances will work in Peril. Or I think I do...

 

If I set 50% for one outcome of ten, it doesn't mean it's 50%, it means it is 5%, effectively - and potentially there is no outcome?

Or is there a default outcome if the test fails for everything? 

[Code Serpent]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

One problem was that you couldn't add alternate dialogs without biasing the chance, the other is that the dialog systems randomness is a bit suspect, I think. (Though not the random function, just how it selects dialogs when there are multiple candidates).

The biggest problem was that it limited the complexity of decisions made on whether a deal was appropriate to offer.

It's easier to avoid reoffering the same deal twice if the player refuses, and also possible to swap in a less random way to decide on deal offers.

I think I use the dialogue system a lot differently than you do in your mod.

 

Here, every post-defeat scenario is described in it's own quest, both punishments and bribes. When each scenario quest starts, it's first stage does some scripting to ensure the scenario won't break or be painless (checking that the player isn't already bound before adding restraints, making sure they have enough loot to steal, etc.). If the scenario passes the check, the scenario quests move to a "ready and waiting" stage.

 

The defeat quest can then activate a punishment scenario in two ways: through dialogue or through papyrus. The bribe scenarios are only activated through the parlay dialogue.

 

In the dialogue system, the punishment scenarios are chosen when the player surrenders and pleads for their life, so they have no choice in what happens to them. The dialogue then goes through a "silent invisible continue" topic, which has all the scenarios linked to it. If a scenario is ready, and the random check is passed, the silent topic continues to dialogue in the scenario quest, and the scenario is used.

 

The papyrus system is used when the player has tried to flee or has already gone through the first parlay, or when the enemies the player is defeated by is not able to talk. Again, the player has no choice on what happens. Then, papyrus iterates through the list of scenarios (the starting index is randomized), organized in a formlist, and checking whether any scenario is ready, and if they pass the random check. Once a scenario is found, it is used by a setstage command, bypassing dialogue.

[Code Serpent]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If I set 50% for one outcome of ten, it doesn't mean it's 50%, it means it is 5%, effectively

I suppose you could say that.

 

I think of the chances more as "How often do I want this to happen every time it can happen?", than "How often do I want this to be chosen as the outcome?"

 

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

potentially there is no outcome?

Or is there a default outcome if the test fails for everything? 

The default outcome, if no scenarios can be used or they all fail the random check, is to simply let the player go. So, it's a good idea to set at least one simple outcome to 100% chance, by default this is the Gold Theft.

[Lilzt3hcat]

Minor Bug report, mod seems to detect key hits when the console is open: for example my surrender key is K if I type K in the console while in combat it'll try and surrender soon as I close the console. (Nothing game breaking, just annoying lol)

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

I suppose you could say that.

 

I think of the chances more as "How often do I want this to happen every time it can happen?", than "How often do I want this to be chosen as the outcome?"

 

When I first encountered the Peril MCM, I wasn't sure whether multiple outcomes could occur - and that makes it harder to interpret the tooltips and values.

 

The fundamental point that only one outcome is selected is very important to understand right now.

Once you know there is only one outcome, it's much easier to understand.

 

 

As you're aware, some other defeats allow multiple outcomes, so initially, I wasn't sure about this.

 

 

For the other defeat mods, something like theft or device adding is always a possibility whether you're raped or not.

 

So, in Peril, it would be nice to have a "Device" outcome - which is purely that you get devices added and also a "Devices" option, which is a chance that devices may be added during other outcomes, and you can set the chance it happens during any outcome that would make sense.

 

And then the same with a "Robbed" outcome - pure robbing, no rapes, no devices, but also a "Robbed" option, where you can set a chance of a robbery during other outcomes where robbery is plausible.

 

 

Or maybe the existing code suggests some completely different way to get the same level of control?

 

Personally though, I find devices beyond cheap rope wrist bindings a silly option unless the victors intend to enslave and keep you.

The issue of enslaving and keeping is not handled in Peril yet. Supporting SD+ would be an interim solution.

 

 

Also, for robbery, rather than absolute value as a determinant, what if there was an outcome where robbers acted like a PC and only took high value-per-weight items?

You could then set the value-per-weight threshold for it, and maybe a max encumbrance amount they'll take.

Or, in robbery outcomes, a chance for "confiscate weapons"?

Or, in robbery outcomes, a chance for "bind hands"?

 

 

The change in 2.1 is much appreciated.

There are other ways you can be rendered "chaste" in DD though...

If you are plugged in all orifices with locking plugs.

Some straightjackets.

Open belt plus locking plugs.

Hobble dresses (graphically there is no hole, though some people argue one exists). 

Hoods that block mouth access.

 

If you look at the chastity code in SLD, you'll see its non-trivial; and tries to correctly establish chastity for each hole.

I believe DD5 has taken on some of this handling. So it may (finally) have an API call to establish what holes are open.

 

I made hobble dresses blocking for non-oral in SLD because even if you believe access is possible, the animations look awful with the dress stretching everywhere.

[macnchz]

do you actually die in your mod or is that optional? 

[BAB PEEG]

I hope this mod works out, defeat works....sometimes so you'll be the hero for this one.

[chevalierx]

after test

creature defeat me , and get equiped with 3 DD /and i get weight -700 ??? so i can't run even i quit cell and after 5 h

[Baltasarr80]

Yeah something like a slider do you want 1 2 3 4 5 outcomes or a toggle do you wand x and/or y and x and/or z

[Seeker999]

I'm currently using 1.0.1 in SSE. Is it safe to upgrade to 2.0.1?

Thank you.

[evilblade]

Hi! Could you, please, make older versions of a mod available to download? I really liked everything except healing and I see it was resolved in the 1.0.2, but then came out 2.0 which added the requirement of "the Bribery perk from the Speech tree" which I don't want.. So.. could I just get a 1.0.2, please?  

[Code Serpent]

13 hours ago, chevalierx said:

creature defeat me , and get equiped with 3 DD /and i get weight -700 ??? so i can't run even i quit cell and after 5 h

That's probably because you were equipped with a ball and chain.

[Code Serpent]

5 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

I'm currently using 1.0.1 in SSE. Is it safe to upgrade to 2.0.1?

Thank you.

Probably, though I didn't test it explicitly. As long as you aren't currently in combat, there shouldn't be any issues.

[N.Gamma]

The mod sounds very interesting. Currently I have SL Defeat installed and since Peril is not compatible with other Defat mods, I am thinking of replacing SL Defeat with Peril. But I'm not quite sure if it makes sense. Has already made who experiences which of the two mods is better?

[OH1972]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:36 PM, Seeker999 said:

I'm currently using 1.0.1 in SSE. Is it safe to upgrade to 2.0.1?

Thank you.

Does it require any extra steps to use in SSE or will it work out of the box?

[Seeker999]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:07 PM, Code Serpent said:

Probably, though I didn't test it explicitly. As long as you aren't currently in combat, there shouldn't be any issues.

Thanks, I'll give it a whirl when I'm safer.

13 hours ago, OH1972 said:

Does it require any extra steps to use in SSE or will it work out of the box?

I've been using it out of the box and don't see any reason not to do the same with 2.0.1, though I haven't tested it yet. It doesn't have any meshes/textures/animations to convert.

[gender65]

Deleted  mod "Peril" .  Dovakin became immortal and nothing helped restore his mortality until  removed the mod and made a clean save.Dragonborn once again become mortal.

[Baltasarr80]

Ähm you can decide of you want to make your dragonborn essential i think that is the biggest problem in this situation did you try to make him not essential gender65?

[Code Serpent]

6 hours ago, lued123 said:

I just ran into an issue where, during the Prophet quest in the Dawnguard main questline, Dexion wouldn't talk to me after I beat him.

This mod doesn't affect npcs.

[gender65]

No, I didn't make him immortal in the MSM of this mod.I didn't touch this option at all. Through the console, too, it was not possible to make Dovakin a mortal. Only the removal of this mod helped.

[kilolima]

Hi, this mod looks great! Thanks for creating a new defeat mod! SL Defeat and others seem to have issues or are no longer actively maintained.

 

I'm confused about what happens during a surrender event. Does the player choose one through dialog (is this the "parlay" in the mod description)?

 

All I get is some dialog by the captor along the lines of "So you've decided to come to your senses..." or something and then one option to surrender.

 

If I could make a suggestion, could you also include the gear theft by the captor option like in Naked Dungeons? The PC is stripped and must find and kill the thief to retrieve their equipment. That's a fun way to resolve the event through gameplay.

 

Also, is Peril known to be compatible with Deviously Cursed Loot (as long as it's defeat system is disabled)?

[AnzoCaio]

Not sure if this only happens to me or if im just wrong but i came across a bug where i can't talk to people who've gone down, the problem gets fixed when i uninstall the mod though.

[knots1353]

I was doing some tests using Peril and Corruption together, turning most of the punishments off except for rape in Peril, to test drive up Corruption, and took the PC to a dungeon to surrender repeatedly to the bandit chief there.   I noticed two things which might be nice to fix:

 

- After the first time surrendering, it ALWAYS chose the same NPC to do the rape punishment, without fail, even if that NPC was on the other side of the dungeon, until you either left the dungeon/cell, or you killed the NPC  It would seem to me to make a lot more sense to pick one of the NPCs who was attacking to deal the punishment, or at least someone closer.

 

- I was trying pretty hard to drive up corruption levels with this, but I noticed a trend of Peril almost always (possibly always) picking vaginal sex scenes for rape punishments.  Might have been RNG, but I don't think so.