When I failed getting permissions

[Younhee]

(Sorry for my bad English)

 

This Wednesday, I posted a topic about looking for mods to make a mashup.

It's just for my personal use and amusement. At first.

But at certain point, I've started spending time much than I've expected.

I've got a feeling like: "Ugh.. at least I can try asking 'how is it?' to others.. too many time spended to be used only by me.. perhaps someone would like this.." "And even the original design isn't come from me.." (Yeah I know this looks like attention seeker so please don't talk about that. (......))

 

However, I've uploaded something like this. Nearly zero experience.

But LL is one of the forum for modders, right? = )

So I think you know about this, very good. (or have a fine, straight opinion.)

 

When I failed getting permissions from modders, how I act will be good? (Actually I have a thought of standing with modders: just forget and walk away maybe.. is it ok?)

What is your thought?

[Seijin8]

20 minutes ago, Younhee said:

(Sorry for my bad English)

 

This Wednesday, I posted a topic about looking for mods to make a mashup.

It's just for my personal use and amusement. At first.

But at certain point, I've started spending time much than I've expected.

I've got a feeling like: "Ugh.. at least I can try asking 'how is it?' to others.. too many time spended to be used only by me.. perhaps someone would like this.." "And even the original design isn't come from me.." (Yeah I know this looks like attention seeker so please don't talk about that. (......))

 

However, I've uploaded something like this. Nearly zero experience.

But LL is one of the forum for modders, right? = )

So I think you know about this, very good. (or have a fine, straight opinion.)

 

When I failed getting permissions from modders, how I act will be good? (Actually I have a thought of standing with modders: just forget and walk away maybe.. is it ok?)

What is your thought?

Main thought is:  Don't write as if you are having a conversation when you don't speak the language well.  Be concise, speak simply.

 

Most of what you posted makes zero sense.

[Just Don't]

If you asked for permission and it wasn't given then the proper path would be to not release your mod. You could change your mod so it doesn't use resources from people who didn't give you permission. And if you ever need or want to work on another project, ask for permissions before you start... it will save you a lot of time and headaches.

[gregathit]

5 hours ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

If you asked for permission and it wasn't given then the proper path would be to not release your mod. You could change your mod so it doesn't use resources from people who didn't give you permission. And if you ever need or want to work on another project, ask for permissions before you start... it will save you a lot of time and headaches.

This is the correct answer.

[Younhee]

7 hours ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

If you asked for permission and it wasn't given then the proper path would be to not release your mod. You could change your mod so it doesn't use resources from people who didn't give you permission. And if you ever need or want to work on another project, ask for permissions before you start... it will save you a lot of time and headaches.

Haven't thought about that I should ask before I start it.. It's a obiously much wiser way.

 

I didn't ask modders permission yet.

Not yet.

But when it happen.. your advice is helping me.

 

Thank you.

I'll do your way.

[Younhee]

7 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Main thought is:  Don't write as if you are having a conversation when you don't speak the language well.  Be concise, speak simply.

 

Most of what you posted makes zero sense.

I had always difficulty on writing something.. doc said I have 'a small intensity of dylexsia and adhd'? (still don't know why he said 'small intensity'. I think 'huge' is correct)

And English is not my first language.

 

I think that two reasons make my writing very long and vague.

Sorry.

I'll keep in mind.

Maybe I should write with my mother language first, when I write something..

[Just Don't]

I can see the adhd part, your first post was a bit digressive. Focus into writing one idea in a short sentence. Then leave room for another idea in the next sentence. And when you're certain you wrote everything you needed read it again. Add punctuation marks, delete additional words or separate long sentences into two or more different sentences.

 

English isn't my main language either, but you see we can understand each other either way. All we need to do is put a little extra effort.

[landess]

+Respect to anyone using a language other than the one learned growing up regardless of location (Europeans seem to have a bit of an advantage due to location).

[winny257]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:17 AM, landess said:

+Respect to anyone using a language other than the one learned growing up regardless of location (Europeans seem to have a bit of an advantage due to location).

is only partially correct, it's playing a role how old one are to learn English.
me as an old hand will me no more make the effort, to learn it.
second point, one have to like this language!
for my part i don't like them, too modern, uncultivated, without emotion, simple only a cold computer language.
Good be noted, in games what close to reality like Assassin's Creed Odyssey takes place in a time 700 bevore Chr.
at that time existed not even English, new english is only 300 years old, in which German has existed for 6000 years. 

[Just Checking]

On 2/15/2020 at 3:48 PM, Younhee said:

I had always difficulty on writing something.. doc said I have 'a small intensity of dylexsia and adhd'? (still don't know why he said 'small intensity'. I think 'huge' is correct)

Huge respect pushing through dyslexia to get your point across.  Another thing you can try is writing what you want to say in both English and your own language.  There's a lot of people from all over the world using this site, no doubt someone else who knows your language will be around here.  It will take longer, but might help get you a comprehensive answer faster.

 

10 hours ago, winny257 said:

German has existed for 6000 years. 

This has nothing to do with the topic but my INSANE FRIEND insists German is a language derived from Latin, despite the fact there's almost no carry over between them at all.  If that 6000 years thing is true then he's more full of crap than I thought.

[winny257]

16 minutes ago, Just Checking said:

This has nothing to do with the topic but my INSANE FRIEND insists German is a language derived from Latin, despite the fact there's almost no carry over between them at all.  If that 6000 years thing is true then he's more full of crap than I thought.

well, it was not the German language which is so old, it was Germanic and Ur Germanic, and from this language came German, around 500 BC. 

[terrorofmorrowind]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:38 AM, gregathit said:

This is the correct answer.

yup, what he said^. I once made the mistake of reusing an existing esp to make my own npc's and followers but thankfully the modder gave mhis permission to use it. Luckily I managed to rename the esp without breaking things and since you still had to use the original textures and meshes from that other mod, it technically didn't contain someone elses resources. So all ended well. It's still online here on LL. Nothing too fancy but alteast it gives some more choice in one small esp.

[Grey Cloud]

On 2/17/2020 at 9:48 PM, winny257 said:

and from this language came German, around 500 BC

There wasn't a Germany until 1871. ? Even the USA is older than that. ☹️

[winny257]

14 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

There wasn't a Germany until 1871. ?

According to conventional wisdom, the history of Germany begins with the emergence of the Roman-German kingship in the 10th and 11th centuries. 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_Deutschlands

 

and by the way my city is over 1300 years old, but there are cities that are older. 

[winny257]

12 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

"The Prussian Kingdom was founded on January 18th, 1701, when the Elector Frederick III had himself crowned Frederick I at Konigsberg."

Plymouth Rock landing was in 1620. 

"The Margraviate of Brandenburg" from 1157 to 1806

"In 1417, Frederick I moved its capital from Brandenburg an der Havel to Berlin."

Weird, so there were 2 Frederick Is? 

yes, and so it still is today, Germany has many country districts, earlier it was called kingdoms.

Spoiler

but the german language is much older.
excerpt from Wikipedia

 

It is believed that this Indo-European language developed in the first millennium BC. Chr. Developed the Germanic original language; The first sound shift that took place in the later first millennium BC is regarded as the turning point here.

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Sprachgeschichte

[steelpanther24]

19 hours ago, terrorofmorrowind said:

yup, what he said^. I once made the mistake of reusing an existing esp to make my own npc's and followers but thankfully the modder gave mhis permission to use it. Luckily I managed to rename the esp without breaking things and since you still had to use the original textures and meshes from that other mod, it technically didn't contain someone elses resources. So all ended well. It's still online here on LL. Nothing too fancy but alteast it gives some more choice in one small esp.

If you use the resources or assets from a mod (like a hair style or make up or clothes) with no changes to that asset or resource, then that is a dependency and does not require that modders permission to use.  However, you MUST list it as a requirement and you SHOULD give credit.     If you edit the resources/assets/esp files to "make it better", then you should obtain permission.  

 

Unfortunately, there is a wild difference on what counts as abandoned ware with regards to mods.    If someone hasn't touched their GTA Vice city mod for 19 years, does that make it open?   Without any copyright laws to cover us, the modders should come to a collective agreement on what to do for abandoned mods (i.e. how long does a mod need to remain dormant.).   This issue came up with Crusaders King II mods (Dark World and Dark World Reborn (now defunct, I believe).  

[gregathit]

13 hours ago, steelpanther24 said:

If you use the resources or assets from a mod (like a hair style or make up or clothes) with no changes to that asset or resource, then that is a dependency and does not require that modders permission to use. 

Correct if you do NOT include these resources or assets in your mod (I assume that is what you are saying, just making sure everyone is clear).  

If you do want to include them, you must have permission to do so unless the mod maker already declared free use.

13 hours ago, steelpanther24 said:

Unfortunately, there is a wild difference on what counts as abandoned ware with regards to mods.    If someone hasn't touched their GTA Vice city mod for 19 years, does that make it open?   Without any copyright laws to cover us, the modders should come to a collective agreement on what to do for abandoned mods (i.e. how long does a mod need to remain dormant.).   This issue came up with Crusaders King II mods (Dark World and Dark World Reborn (now defunct, I believe).  

Unfortunately this is really the grey area and it is sad that no one can agree.  There are lots of mods that have been abandoned that could be salvaged if there was a standard that everyone accepted.  Unfortunately, we'll have to continue to make decisions on a case by case basis.

[KoolHndLuke]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:03 AM, steelpanther24 said:

Without any copyright laws to cover us, the modders should come to a collective agreement on what to do for abandoned mods (i.e. how long does a mod need to remain dormant.).   This issue came up with Crusaders King II mods (Dark World and Dark World Reborn (now defunct, I believe).

I think a decade is sufficient with no activity from an MA on a mod- either updates or active in the mod thread. Just gone. But like Greg said, no one will ever agree on this. We need a ruling from the guild masters I guess. Nexus will not broach the subject. 

 

I mean once an MA is gone for 10 yrs, I think it's safe to assume they're never coming back and the mod should be opened permissions for use. It's a shame to let old mods with good/unique assets just sit untouched and not updated (some need it!) and nobody can touch them since the "owner" can't be found.

 

However, a policy like this could not be retroactive since authors would need to be aware of it before they upload a mod.

[Tron91]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I think a decade is sufficient with no activity from an MA on a mod- either updates or active in the mod thread. Just gone. But like Greg said, no one will ever agree on this. We need a ruling from the guild masters I guess. Nexus will not broach the subject. 

 

I mean once an MA is gone for 10 yrs, I think it's safe to assume they're never coming back and the mod should be opened permissions for use. It's a shame to let old mods with good/unique assets just sit untouched and not updated (some need it!) and nobody can touch them since the "owner" can't be found.

Maybe gone for 10 years is a too long period. That period should be cut down to 1 or 2 year. (How long is a game's life?). I would say if a mod can be improved, let it be modified with a clause, if the MA returns from hiatus, he/she can make the decision whether the newer mod can remain in circulation or not.

[KoolHndLuke]

14 minutes ago, Tron91 said:

Maybe gone for 10 years is a too long period. That period should be cut down to 1 or 2 year. (How long is a game's life?). I would say if a mod can be improved, let it be modified with a clause, if the MA returns from hiatus, he/she can make the decision whether the newer mod can remain in circulation or not.

You'll never get MAs to agree to that. Believe me- I've asked..... and most of them want to reserve the right to change/open permissions for themselves only. 10 yrs is perhaps a compromise that they might except. Not going to happen anyway since no site is going to consider any such policy as it might discourage some MA's from continuing to use the site to host their mods.

[Tron91]

5 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

You'll never get MAs to agree to that. Believe me- I've asked and most of them want to reserve the right to change/open permissions for themselves only.

I guess that's the main reason why many Mods don't cross over the WIP phase.

[DoctaSax]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

You'll never get MAs to agree to that. Believe me- I've asked..... and most of them want to reserve the right to change/open permissions for themselves only. 10 yrs is perhaps a compromise that they might except. Not going to happen anyway since no site is going to consider any such policy as it might discourage some MA's from continuing to use the site to host their mods.

Some type of expiration date on modders' copyright is simply not something that can be decided between modders, users and hosting sites. Unless there's a law enacted that severely shortens copyright on software, there's nothing any of us can do about it one way or another, even if we all agreed, which in itself is not going to happen either.

[A.J.]

2 hours ago, Tron91 said:

I guess that's the main reason why many Mods don't cross over the WIP phase.

I more believe it's because someone's so naive to publish wips and believe someone else will lend a hand

if to see a mod finished we need the original modder out of the picture, then I say there's still something missing here...

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, A.J. said:

I more believe it's because someone's so naive to publish wips and believe someone else will lend a hand

if to see a mod finished we need the original modder out of the picture, then I say there's still something missing here...

There's any number of reasons the original MA might not "finish" a mod. That's just the nature of the beast. I think some authors just bite off more than they can chew- the same as some devs.

[A.J.]

39 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

There's any number of reasons the original MA might not "finish" a mod. That's just the nature of the beast. I think some authors just bite off more than they can chew- the same as some devs.

But the point is not the reasons why the mod's not finished. The point is why the mod's unfinished and noone can touch it. It really takes you 10 seconds to drop a line and declare it a resource because you just can't do it.