Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'm trying using modular deals with classic deals.  Early results show it working okay in 2.12.  I like the concept of hand-crafted classic deals, but that breaks down if I want to skip a stage 1 or stage 2 deal.  I can't go all modular because deals like I'm a Slut are only available in classic, and I must have that one.  The ultimate system would be modular with player-configurable deal chains.  I know that's huge; I'm just dreaming.  Classic + modular does 90% of what I'm looking for.

My idea for modular deals was that classic deals would have some variation on non-vital stages.

That's not what we have.

Currently, it's not even possible to know what "deal" you are allocating a modular deal to at the point of allocation. That's a big limitation in possible functionality.

 

There are some new planned classic deals, but I think there's scope (if not time) to add a lot of things that aren't deals, and just "work" in their own way as a feature.

Spanking is like that.

 

Currently, there's no spanking -deal- and I'm not working on that, but you will be able to ask for spanks, in various circumstances.

Exactly how that works, and what happens will depend on whether you have STA installed or not.

When the spanking deal is added, it will tie into ask-for-spanks in a way that should be immersive.

The follower won't just spank you, you will have to ask. If you forget, you'll end up with debt and extra spanks.

It might make sense to have forced spanking (and whipping) for slavery mode. However, that definitely won't be a 2.12 feature.

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I think there's scope (if not time) to add a lot of things that aren't deals, and just "work" in their own way as a feature.

Spanking is like that.

That's a good point, and I think there are several vanilla "deal" functionalities that may be able to meet that test (in scope, if not in time) and work well as a "feature" of the mod that the deals then make use of.  Some brainstorm examples:

 

Self-degradation - this could be a straight-up feature, and have some functionality such as reducing follower boredom on a timer at the expense of willpower or be part of a mini game played with the follower (ala SLS's "go say nasty things about yourself to X NPC" begging result, perhaps part of a key deal result?).  It could also just be a fun way for the player to have the PC say nasty things about herself if they felt like it, similar to asking for spanks without STA.  The deal could then add enforcement measures, so it becomes a requirement rather than an optional feature, without the added benefits and with possibly worse outcomes.

 

Prostitution on approach - this could also be a feature rather than tied exclusively to the level 3 deal.  Without the deal active, this could be a periodic way of making a decent amount of money, or rejected without repercussions (thinking SL Approach "Lite").  With the deal active, it becomes required, and the PC sees just a fraction of the proceeds of their efforts. 

 

SLUT armor - instead of requiring specific SLUT armor, DF could have a system in place were there are repercussions to wearing slutty armor.  If there was a DF based prostitution on approach feature as described above, perhaps wearing slutty armor would cause the PC to be approach more often/aggressively and get less of a payout.  This could be a great tie-in to SLS and its bikini armor licences if it had the option of relying on the same tags, and offer a bigger bonus for graduating to a "real" amour license.  The "slut armor" deal could then require the PC wear any amour that is appropriately tagged, and cause the "DF Slutty armor" events to become more extreme.

 

 

I think it could be really interesting if some of the mechanics of DF were more fleshed out and able to stand on their own as features, and then the deals of DF leveraged those features into interesting scenarios.  This would allow these features to tie into things like chaos mode and MCM scaling.  Depending on the PC's status with the DF, some of these features could be restricted, enhanced, or outright cut off if they were gold generation avenues.  If the features were relatively robust, the player may decide they don't need external mods for some of these features, especially since those typically won't be DF aware and would need to be tweaked for balance separately.

 

Not saying DF should try to becomes a "do everything" mod, but it would be cool for it to to offer some in-house options to fill some of the common gameplay slots in a more integrated way.  Time allowing of course. 

 

 

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Prostitution on approach

DF is already adding prostitution, both via the Slave/Whore deal, and via enslavement.

The problem is that the implementation of it is minimalist. It is a shallow mechanic, driven entirely by randomness.

It adds some atmosphere, but that's all it can do.

 

It's an area where it would make sense to improve and expand a bit. Or maybe pass that work off to another mod.

There's no mod that excites me though. I use RP, but I find it isn't very interactive and it lacks animation management features that some other mods have.

Alas, those other mods are worse for me due to other problems that mean they just aren't a good fit for me.

 

  

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Self-degradation

I'm not going to say this is coming, but I do want to add more ways to reduce follower Boredom.

[Bane Master]

16 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If anyone other than Hexbolt is testing the alpha and wants that fix, just shout out.

*Shouts* ?

[HexBolt8]

37 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

*Shouts*

Since Lupine has been offline for a while, if you don't want to wait for a fix just edit the quest _DFlowModDealController and set the value of DealsBuilt to 17.  That change allows the modular deals list to display.  That's a quest property so I don't think it will update without a new game. 

[Lupine00]

This only applies to the current alpha for 2.12. This has nothing to do with release version 2.11

 

This patch fixes the flaw in the current alpha's mod deal controller that leads to DealsBuilt being unset, which leads to no modular deals showing up in your MCM or being assigned to the player during play.

 

The patch will fix the problem if you make a new game.

 

If you have an existing game you want to fix, the patch won't do that.

Instead, in the console, you should type:

 

setpqv _DFlowModDealController DealsBuilt 17

 

 

ModDealController patch for 2.12 alpha.7z

 

Some background for people actually testing this:

Spoiler

The way that the ExpensiveDeal interacts with your required number of deals is strange.

It's both a stage 1/2 and a stage 3 deal.

 

Currently, it isn't counted towards the total, but instead exists as a kind of uncounted fallback.

I guess this just helps show that the idea of counting available deals is not all that meaningful.

Maybe it should be counted as both, but due to its role as a last-ditch fallback I don't think it should count.

 

[HexBolt8]

It seems good the way you have Expensive Deal set up in 2.12 as not counting toward the total, since they have no consequence other than making it difficult to leave.  It's handy to know that for testing though.

[Hanshurtig11]

Thx for your continous work on this faboulus mod ! I wonder if its possible for the deal, to use a petsuit out off the inventory instead of generating a new one any time its reequipped (and the original was dumped).

I think of the gag, which is (after removed and reequipped) chosen from one in your inventory, so you can control a bit wich color, type and material it is. The idea is to dump the petsuit after the first remove end replace it with one you like in your inventory. regards

[Lupine00]

31 minutes ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

so you can control a bit wich color, type and material it is.

You can do this with LDC ... probably ... 

 

Look in "SKSE\Plugins\Lozeak Device Controller\Device Settings.json"

 

You'll find something like this:

 

        "zad_deviouspetsuit" : 
        [
            "Black Leather Pet Suit",
            "Red Leather Pet Suit",
            "White Leather Pet Suit",
            "Black Ebonite Pet Suit",
            "Red Ebonite Pet Suit",
            "White Ebonite Pet Suit"
        ],

 

Remove the pet suits you don't want to wear.

Careful, JSON is unforgiving of poor comma usage.

 

Some devices are hardwired into the code, predate the LDC, and don't use it, and I don't recall whether the Jarl scene pet suit is one of those.

For other circumstances it should definitely work.

[Hanshurtig11]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

You can do this with LDC ... probably ... 

 

Look in "SKSE\Plugins\Lozeak Device Controller\Device Settings.json"

 

You'll find something like this:

 

        "zad_deviouspetsuit" : 
        [
            "Black Leather Pet Suit",
            "Red Leather Pet Suit",
            "White Leather Pet Suit",
            "Black Ebonite Pet Suit",
            "Red Ebonite Pet Suit",
            "White Ebonite Pet Suit"
        ],

 

Remove the pet suits you don't want to wear.

Careful, JSON is unforgiving of poor comma usage.

 

Some devices are hardwired into the code, predate the LDC, and don't use it, and I don't recall whether the Jarl scene pet suit is one of those.

For other circumstances it should definitely work.

Thx for the quick answer, i'll have a look at the json file. Yes, i thought that special event devices would be "hardwired". Do you have an idea if the "wanna use" items needs to be from devious devices (and ddx), or items like from Elviras shop (the pink ones) can be used ?

 

Edit: Standard color/material works via json, pink sadly not ^^, thx again

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

Do you have an idea if the "wanna use" items needs to be from devious devices (and ddx), or items like from Elviras shop (the pink ones) can be used ?

It should be able to use any item in your game.

The LDC JSON is generated when DF first runs, and not re-generated, so if you add new mods, they won't be picked up.

However, because it works entirely by name, not FormID, it's easy to add items manually, and it shouldn't be broken by mods changing ID mid-game etc.

[Hanshurtig11]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It should be able to use any item in your game.

The LDC JSON is generated when DF first runs, and not re-generated, so if you add new mods, they won't be picked up.

However, because it works entirely by name, not FormID, it's easy to add items manually, and it shouldn't be broken by mods changing ID mid-game etc.

I found "Reinit the Device Controller" under Debug in MCM, but it does not seem to work for me.

I tried adding the Pink Ebonit Pet suit here

 

"zad_deviouspetsuit" :
        [
            "Black Ebonite Pet Suit"
        ],

(actually i deletet all but black and changed "Black" to "Pink"

 

but with only pink left, DF keeps trying to add ("time to get you into your petsuit"), but nothing happens

 

then i found this line at the top of the json file

"settings" : [ "Change Y to N if you don't want to use sets", "Use Sets - (Y)", "Delete This To Rebuild Item List" ],

Could this "delete This to rebuilf Item List" be used to force it to look for new items ? 

And if so, what should be deleted ? just

"settings" : [ "Change Y to N if you don't want to use sets", "Use Sets - (Y)", "Delete This To Rebuild Item List" ],

or    "settings" : [ "Change Y to N if you don't want to use sets", "Use Sets - (Y)", "Delete This To Rebuild Item List" ],

regards

[Lupine00]

 

1 hour ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

And if so, what should be deleted ?

Just delete the string "Delete This To Rebuild Item List" and its preceding comma.

More detail inside:

Spoiler

 

However, according to Lozeak's comments in the code, it says that you need to start a new game.

I might add that doesn't mean you need to abandon your OLD game  

 

Seriously. If (as he implies, and I haven't checked) the rebuild test is only on creating a new game, just go "New Game" and make one. Wait (a long time) for LDC to rebuild the list.

 

Now your old game will load the regenerated list because the list is not specific to a give save in any way, it's just there in your SKSE\Plugins directory.

Once you're happy the list regenerated OK, you should be able to delete any items you don't want to see.

 

 

Unfortunately...

 

Now I've looked at the Init code for the LDC, I see that it basically adds every device explicitly.

It fires a mod event so that other mods *could* add their devices, but that's just wishful thinking.

There are functions so mods can register into LDC during the Init phase.

 

Sorry for my bad memory. I have only looked in the LDC briefly on and off when it wasn't giving me the items I wanted.

I remember discussing the design with Lozeak now, and after he'd taken on the points I made, his response was basically, "I'd have to completely rewrite it all".

 

 

That said, hacking it so that players could register new devices via the DF MCM is not that huge a thing.

That would be something like you have to input the form ID in a text box.

Doing it nicely, so you could pick from devices you are wearing would be a lot more work though.

 

Assuming you can build the LDC script, you can add your own devices.

Instructions below:

Spoiler

 

Create a new ESP in the CK.

Create an empty quest in the ESP.

Add a quest script to that (inherits from quest).

e.g. 

Scriptname MyDevices extends Quest

 

In the script add an Armor Auto property for each device you want to add.

Build the script (there's no real code in it, just props).

 

Edit the properties in the ESP to fill them with the "Inventory items" for the DD objects you want to add. 

 

Save that ESP.

 

Load up DF in the CK (also load your new ESP) and open the LDC script. Make DF the active ESP now.

Add a property to the LDC script that has the type of your new added script.

e.g.

MyDevices Property myD Auto

 

Rebuild LDC.

Edit the properties and put your quest-script into the property.

 

Add the following line to the list of other RegisterDeviceByKeyword calls in RegisterDevices()

e.g.

RegisterDeviceByKeyword(myD.pinkPetSuit, libs.zad_DeviousPetSuit)

 

Rebuild LDC.

Save DF ESP.

 

Regenerate the LDC JSON file for your game.

Enjoy pink pet suits.

 

 

You can also do the CK parts through Tes5Edit if you compile the edited scripts manually.

 

[Hanshurtig11]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Just delete the string "Delete This To Rebuild Item List" and its preceding comma.

More detail inside:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

However, according to Lozeak's comments in the code, it says that you need to start a new game.

I might add that doesn't mean you need to abandon your OLD game  

 

Seriously. If (as he implies, and I haven't checked) the rebuild test is only on creating a new game, just go "New Game" and make one. Wait (a long time) for LDC to rebuild the list.

 

Now your old game will load the regenerated list because the list is not specific to a give save in any way, it's just there in your SKSE\Plugins directory.

Once you're happy the list regenerated OK, you should be able to delete any items you don't want to see.

 

 

Unfortunately...

 

Now I've looked at the Init code for the LDC, I see that it basically adds every device explicitly.

It fires a mod event so that other mods *could* add their devices, but that's just wishful thinking.

There are functions so mods can register into LDC during the Init phase.

 

Sorry for my bad memory. I have only looked in the LDC briefly on and off when it wasn't giving me the items I wanted.

I remember discussing the design with Lozeak now, and after he'd taken on the points I made, his response was basically, "I'd have to completely rewrite it all".

 

 

That said, hacking it so that players could register new devices via the DF MCM is not that huge a thing.

That would be something like you have to input the form ID in a text box.

Doing it nicely, so you could pick from devices you are wearing would be a lot more work though.

 

Assuming you can build the LDC script, you can add your own devices.

Instructions below:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Create a new ESP in the CK.

Create an empty quest in the ESP.

Add a quest script to that (inherits from quest).

e.g. 

Scriptname MyDevices extends Quest

 

In the script add an Armor Auto property for each device you want to add.

Build the script (there's no real code in it, just props).

 

Edit the properties in the ESP to fill them with the "Inventory items" for the DD objects you want to add. 

 

Save that ESP.

 

Load up DF in the CK (also load your new ESP) and open the LDC script. Make DF the active ESP now.

Add a property to the LDC script that has the type of your new added script.

e.g.

MyDevices Property myD Auto

 

Rebuild LDC.

Edit the properties and put your quest-script into the property.

 

Add the following line to the list of other RegisterDeviceByKeyword calls in RegisterDevices()

e.g.

RegisterDeviceByKeyword(myD.pinkPetSuit, libs.zad_DeviousPetSuit)

 

Rebuild LDC.

Save DF ESP.

 

Regenerate the LDC JSON file for your game.

Enjoy pink pet suits.

 

 

You can also do the CK parts through Tes5Edit if you compile the edited scripts manually.

 

I tried the "new game" thing and it really build a new file ( i renamed the original, so i could see if there is actually a new one), after i clicked on "reinit" in the MCM.

Unfortunatly it didnt add the devices from Elviras shop. Very sadly, i never got CK to work properly. Guess i will just go with my secound favorite color... black ebonit

If i find the time, i may try your instructions via Tesedit. Many many thx for your efforts.

[Bakon]

Would be cool if the option to enable custom outfits didn't get locked like with the debug options, but I suppose I can only blame myself for that one ?

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Bakon said:

Would be cool if the option to enable custom outfits didn't get locked like with the debug options, but I suppose I can only blame myself for that one

I haven't had much (any) feedback on that locking feature. I wasn't sure if anyone ever used it.

It was added pretty hastily, just to see how people felt about it.

 

I can review whether there are other items that make sense to exclude.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

Guess i will just go with my secound favorite color... black ebonit

If i find the time, i may try your instructions via Tesedit. Many many thx for your efforts.

There's a quick way to get pink pet suits...

 

Just copy the pink textures from Elvira's over the red or black ones in your DD install, then set your LDC to only use that red or black color.

[Hanshurtig11]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There's a quick way to get pink pet suits...

 

Just copy the pink textures from Elvira's over the red or black ones in your DD install, then set your LDC to only use that red or black color.

Hm, thats an idea.. i rarely... or never... use white or red standard leather, so it wont be missing ^^

[King_MIdas_II]

are all followers devious when you get them, or are there specific followers/requirements that need to be met. and for follower mods like sofia do i need to use the debug option to register them with devious followers?

[valcon767]

5 hours ago, King_MIdas_II said:

are all followers devious when you get them, or are there specific followers/requirements that need to be met. and for follower mods like sofia do i need to use the debug option to register them with devious followers?

not all followers are devious.  all followers that use the vanilla follower system will be devious.

followers that use an enhanced version of the vanilla follower system may be devious (don't remember offhand).

followers that use a custom follower system will usually not be devious (unless you add them manually).

mercenaries and housecarls can be devious (i usually manually exempt them), but some dialogue will seem odd or strange.

there is an option to exempt followers (case by case) from DFC (they will not be devious).

 

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, King_MIdas_II said:

are all followers devious when you get them, or are there specific followers/requirements that need to be met. and for follower mods like sofia do i need to use the debug option to register them with devious followers?

Some custom followers like Sofia will have issues even if you explicitly add them.

They also conflict with follower frameworks.

 

The problem area is when their special quests and mechanics add blocking dialog or forcegreets that prevent you getting to the DF dialogs.

Other than that, if explicitly added, they should work. There may be times you need to pause DF because the follower's special quests are locking you out of it.

[Lupine00]

Here is a new alpha:

Deleted - out of data - please see latest alpha.

[HexBolt8]

Thank you for this update!  I've looked at Cobalt's animations from time to time.  There's nice potential and I've left him some feedback, but I see why you might by holding off on them.

 

It sounds like the DF will never offer a spanking.  If the PC is not a masochist and DF boredom is over zero and the other conditions are met, might the DF suggest it?  The situation I'm in now is that my current character dislikes spanks and will never enjoy them (I locked masochism progression in STA).  I can't justify having that kind of character ask for a spanking even to reduce follower boredom, so unfortunately as a player I'd miss out on this content for this playthrough at least.  Sure, for testing I can have the PC act out of character, but I'm guessing I'm not the only player who will have a character that's highly reluctant to ask for spanking.  Maybe there's a way for the DF to suggest it, for a slightly reduced punishment or some other failing.  Maybe even a spanking deal for non masochist characters?

[stobor]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If you have STA, it will allow you to easily get your pain level up to feed your masochism addiction.

The scene worked fine, but it didn't seem to do this; the pain stat shifted very little, if at all.  Far less than would be the case w/ a spank-happy NPC and STA.  I did let the alpha release override the one STA script, so I'm not sure why this wouldn't be working.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It sounds like the DF will never offer a spanking.

That's right, it's never offered or forced.

 

The next step is the spanking deal, which will make spanking something you have to do, or suffer financial penalties, but for now I wanted to see how good the spanking experience would be, and whether it would be fun. I really wanted a way for masochists to get their spanks, and now I have that.

 

There are a few known defects in the alpha spanking:

Spoiler

1) I forgot to copy and tweak the dialogs to the male branch. And YES, there is a male branch with custom dialogs, and it will be properly populated before release.

2) You can ask for spanking outdoors. It should probably only be available in dwellings. If I had some appropriate animations that wouldn't be necessary, but I don't.

 

 

  

5 hours ago, stobor said:

The scene worked fine, but it didn't seem to do this; the pain stat shifted very little, if at all.  Far less than would be the case w/ a spank-happy NPC and STA.  I did let the alpha release override the one STA script, so I'm not sure why this wouldn't be working.

Did you allow STA time to update? It tracks spanks over hourly intervals and only updates occasionally. 

It's possible that your install is not quite right. Is your masochism updating properly?

 

Do you perhaps have your STA heavily customized in the MCM?

 

DF can only practically deliver the number of spank events that it delivers... Not dozens more. STA cannot spank faster.

It's built around the STA defaults, where 30 spanks is full intensity redness.

At the lower willpower levels, you're only going to get 15 spanks from a hand-spanking session.

You'd need two such sessions to get to full intensity.

 

The paddle session is 25 spanks. This is deliberately short of 30, so you need two to totally fill your spanking need if you're an addict.

The rape session with spanking is 35 spanks, and will get you to 30 in one go.

The numbers for boredom are set up similarly. One mild session isn't enough to remove a whole point of boredom. You have to work a little harder than that.

 

The two Nibbles spanks are just nowhere near as long as a nine-stage rape that might contain a spank-happy NPC that would take you to 30 spanks in one go. The spanking scenes are only going to be impacted by SLSO if it speeds them up, which would only reduce spanks administered (though I cheat a bit there).

 

Regular sex scenes can drag on for a long time with SLSO, and STA will be spanking consistently through them.

DF isn't turning those off for you. If you are getting enough spanks through sex, your only reason to beg for spanks is to please the follower. That's not a mistake, it's how it's supposed to work. My game has no rapes in it, unless DF triggers them. I don't get rape spanks unless deals, games, or enslavement make rapes commonplace. Thus, I really need a way to get pain levels up. If you don't need that, then boredom reduction is the only reason to use it, and that is fine.

 

I should probably put a little more effort into the diagnostic side of this, with more detail on installed animations and ESPs, and confirmation of correct STA code. It can be done, just more tedious MCM boilerplate.