Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

On 6/15/2020 at 5:54 AM, xboronx said:

Only additional setting is 2 followers, charging 20% extra per follower. Interest is at 0%.

I had paid debt and when Lydia charges after ~10 hours of waiting she charged 3334 gold, imho i should only get something <200 debt per day with the huge discount.

I tested discounts on my install and they appeared to work as intended.

I tried various scenarios and it was all good.

 

With 100% discount, there was zero debt until the boredom adjust started to kick in, gradually fading in a small amount of debt that ramped up expected.

 

If your debt is more than you expect for your discount percentage, you might want to try 'show _DFDebtAdjust' in the console, which will tell you how much boredom penalty you are getting: that penalty will cancel discounts by design.

 

Also, the stats page will show you your discount percentage... This is the basic capped discount percentage, but it should at least clarify something. If you have ten deals and a cap of 99%, you should see 99 there, only nine deals and it should be 90.

 

Stats doesn't show boredom adjustments. I'll think about adding it in.

[Arlokk]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I want to help here, but I have no idea what you are talking about beyond you see a lot of rapes. That's not much to go on.

 

What rape events?

What led up to them?

How did they start being triggered?

What do you think makes them keep being triggered?

What was your status in DF?

Did you have a DF? Did you have deals? What deals were they? Were you enslaved?

 

Are you sure the rapes you are seeing are from DF at all?

Why are you sure?

 

Also, is this a new game? Old game? New DF install? Old version? Beta?

 

What is your mod manager? How did you install? Do you use a follower framework? What framework is it?

 

 

Just saying you have non-stop rapes gives me no clue what your problem is.

 

It does make me suspect that you have Deviously Cursed Loot, or SexLab Adventures, or DEC, mis-configured, because DF doesn't actually trigger any pure-non-consensual sex unless you are enslaved, and even then, there are conditions for it to occur.

 

If you use SLD or SexLab Adventures, are you simply in a long rape scene? If so, it will end eventually. Configure less rapists to stop such epic rapes from those mods.

thanks for responding and for help

What rape events?
- I didn't know for sure, it was right after my character was enslaved and the events started, an Npc simply comes close to her and the scene begins

What led to them?
-I think that being enslaved started the events

What was your status in DF?
-slave ... that status you're asking for?

Were you enslaved?
-yea

Are you sure that the rapes you are seeing are from the DF?
Why are you sure?
-I didn't know, right after I was enslaved they started so it was the only thing I thought, but I had installed some other mods along with this one to test it and they were also triggering events

Also, is this a new game? Old game? New DF installation? Old version? Beta?
- the save is old it's almost 100 hours, I had skype for a while and I came back and this save was without mods so I went to modify it, version 2.03

What is your mod manager? How did you install it? Do you use a follower structure? What structure is this?
mod organizer 2, by the manager, use nether's follower framework

Just saying that you have rape over and over doesn't give me any idea what your problem is.
- yes, mistake on my part; should have explained better ^^

in short ... after deactivating the new mods to test which mod the events were from, I think Deviously Enslaved Continued was triggering events right after the Devious followers events and so I was at an infinite lop, another problem was that I was with several followers and one after another triggered animations;

now it's working well ... there are still lots of animations when I'm in a city for example, because many Npcs and followers take advantage of the enslaved character, but after a few animations I can play again so that's fine

PS: Saadia didn't like that I didn't pay her

[xboronx]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If your debt is more than you expect for your discount percentage, you might want to try 'show _DFDebtAdjust' in the console, which will tell you how much boredom penalty you are getting: that penalty will cancel discounts by design.

 

I only get unknown variable 'show _DFDebtAdjust' for parameter float.

 

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Stats doesn't show boredom adjustments. I'll think about adding it in.

 

Only if this is not much work.

 

 

P.S.: A big thank your for continuing working on this wonderful mod. I loved the mod from the beginning when Lozeak introduced the first version. You had many great suggestions back then and when Lozeak finally stopped working on the mod you amazingly managed to learn modding Skyrim yourself and can implement your own suggestions now. You are another of those modding Heros who make Skyrim so awesome

[Arlokk]

when enslaved, the scenes are triggered by what?
because the Npcs are excited ...
are near ...
or is it something random ...

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, Arlokk said:

when enslaved, the scenes are triggered by what?
because the Npcs are excited ...
are near ...
or is it something random ...

Were you wearing a gag?

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Arlokk said:

when enslaved, the scenes are triggered by what?

I would expect it's simply because the PC is naked, or in visible bondage, or both.

For most rape mods, naked and in visible bondage means a free ride.

How often they activate is part of the rape mod's configuration.

 

In DLC, it defaults to once per several hours, but you can turn that cooldown down to zero.

SL Adventures is similar.

I would expect DEC is similar too.

 

But if you have multiple rape mods, one may fire, then the other, then the next, and by then the first one is almost off cooldown so, around you go again.

 

Additionally, SL Adventures and SLD may initiate rapes with large numbers of participants that employ multiple scenes to complete the horror. In this case, there will usually be a crowd of rapists standing around, cheering on the brutal violation of the PC, which may involve several different SexLab animations and run for a few minutes. If these long rapes are mixed into your cooldown chain, it helps create the impression of seemingly non-stop rapes.

 

In most cases the solution is to set the cooldown in DCL, SL Adventures, SLD, DEC, Horrible Harrassment, SL Kidnapped, Deviously Helpless, or whatever is causing your rapes, to a longer duration. Usually these cooldowns are in game hours.

 

Make sure you aren't running your game at some insanely fast time-rate, as that can cause this kind of problem.

 

Another good idea is not to run multiple rape mods. In most cases you can disable this feature so that only one mod handles rapes. If you are using SL Adventures, it is highly advisable to disable DCL and DEC rapes. If you are using SLD, it is a good idea to cap the rape chance so it doesn't trigger as soon as it cools down, even if multiple conditions pile up.

 

While individual mods have cooldowns, they typically do not take account of sex events from other mods in maintaining their cooldown.

 

 

 

DF itself only triggers rapes if the follower decides to whore you out.

So, they are not strictly rapes, but they use the victim flag and aggressive animations, so they are indistinguishable except by the context.

Note that if DF triggers a whoring event (the follower shouts out and invites people use the PC for sex), the results may drag on for several minutes, and may continue across cell changes. In this situation DF is trying to initiate multiple sex events - by design - and they may come close together, or spaced a bit apart, depending on how NPCs become available. However, there is an end to the process, and once over it will not repeat immediately. It should not repeat for several game days in most cases, but this depends on how you configure the "follower games" cooldown. The MCM advises not to set this to shorter than every two days, but some people ignore this, which is fine. They can reasonably expect to bear the consequences. They were warned.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, xboronx said:

I only get unknown variable 'show _DFDebtAdjust' for parameter float.

Sorry, it is _DFDailyDebtAdjust

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, xboronx said:

Only if this is not much work.

What I've done is adjust the way that discount limit works...

 

Previously, discount limit was applied to the calculated discount, THEN the boredom adjustment was applied.

 

Now, discount is calculated, offset by the boredom adjustment, and THEN the discount limit is applied.

 

This means that if you have a large number of deals, they can still be of benefit in offsetting the boredom penalty, instead of simply being useless.

 

To improve the displayed information, the displayed discount now shows this final value. Previously it just showed the capped discount, now it shows the final discount that will apply.

This is more useful. You can tell your discount has dropped from what you expect, but I don't have to show a totally new value.

[Xiaron]

On 6/13/2020 at 3:18 AM, Bane Master said:

If you are able to get a stripped down version working would you be happy to post it as support pack for DF? I'm also up against anim limits so have the same issue with installing the full packs.

I've stripped Rydin's down to just the two spanking if you want that. It fixes the FNIS error as well.

 

Edit: File temporarily removed until permission from animation creator established.

Edit 2: Rydin allowed sharing, so here is is again.

 

Rydin Spanking Animations.7z

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Xiaron said:

I've stripped Rydin's down to just the two spanking if you want that. It fixes the FNIS error as well.

Last night I made the pack with Anub's and Nibbles in, which has some new variations on the Anub rape.

I haven't had time to integrate that with DF yet. There will be a beta-update with the new pack when that's done.

 

 

I asked Rydin if his animations could also be included but there's been no response, so they will not be included in this release though they will still be supported, they won't be necessary. People can install the Rydin animations however they like, using either a stripped version like the one posted, or the original...

 

But I'm not sure publicly posting the stripped version here is strictly ok - a replacement JSON as a patch, sure, but the entire thing? Unless you got permission, that feels off to me.

[Xiaron]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Last night I made the pack with Anub's and Nibbles in, which has some new variations on the Anub rape.

I haven't had time to integrate that with DF yet. There will be a beta-update with the new pack when that's done.

 

 

I asked Rydin if his animations could also be included but there's been no response, so they will not be included in this release though they will still be supported, they won't be necessary. People can install the Rydin animations however they like, using either a stripped version like the one posted, or the original...

 

But I'm not sure publicly posting the stripped version here is strictly ok - a replacement JSON as a patch, sure, but the entire thing? Unless you got permission, that feels off to me.

I can certainly remove it if you're concerned about that. I removed one working animation, one broken animation, and edited the json and settings files. 3/4ths of that would be needed in a patch just to make it work correctly.

[Arlokk]

23 hours ago, Balgin said:

Were you wearing a gag?

yes I was

23 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DF itself only triggers rapes if the follower decides to whore you out.

So, they are not strictly rapes, but they use the victim flag and aggressive animations, so they are indistinguishable except by the context.

Note that if DF triggers a whoring event (the follower shouts out and invites people use the PC for sex), the results may drag on for several minutes, and may continue across cell changes. In this situation DF is trying to initiate multiple sex events - by design - and they may come close together, or spaced a bit apart, depending on how NPCs become available. However, there is an end to the process, and once over it will not repeat immediately. It should not repeat for several game days in most cases, but this depends on how you configure the "follower games" cooldown. The MCM advises not to set this to shorter than every two days, but some people ignore this, which is fine. They can reasonably expect to bear the consequences. They were warned.

these multiple events were happening to me, but when they ended, there was no interval of a few days, the interval was only a few seconds and another event already started;
but that was because my character was enslaved and the mod was trying to equip a necklace (device) on me and was not getting it because I already had a necklace (device) from the survival mod equipped;

I went back to the save and deactivated the mod survival necklace before being enslaved and everything went well ... I also updated the mod that was in version 2.03 to the current version and translated it into Portuguese because my English is not very good, but I am learning;

everything goes as it should be, by the way ... excellent mod

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Arlokk said:

the mod was trying to equip a necklace (device)

The mod? Which mod?

 

Do you mean a collar? Is this "necklace" an artifact of translation software?

Try using deepl instead of google translate; the results are usually much clearer.

 

Can we narrow this down to a problem relating to punishment events for not wearing the collar required for enslavement?

 

DF should allow other collars to be worn instead of the follower's preferred collar. As far as I can recall, it does not distinguish between different collars.

 

That said, you were on 2.03!

Many things have been changed since then. It's so old there's no point reporting issues with it.

[Bane Master]

22 hours ago, Xiaron said:

I've stripped Rydin's down to just the two spanking if you want that. It fixes the FNIS error as well.

Thanks very much - greatly appreciated!

[xboronx]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:23 AM, Lupine00 said:

Sorry, it is _DFDailyDebtAdjust

My rate adjustment is 1.69, so everything seems to work as it should under the old rules.

 

On 6/17/2020 at 2:45 PM, Lupine00 said:

What I've done is adjust the way that discount limit works...

 

Previously, discount limit was applied to the calculated discount, THEN the boredom adjustment was applied.

 

Now, discount is calculated, offset by the boredom adjustment, and THEN the discount limit is applied.

 

This means that if you have a large number of deals, they can still be of benefit in offsetting the boredom penalty, instead of simply being useless.

 

To improve the displayed information, the displayed discount now shows this final value. Previously it just showed the capped discount, now it shows the final discount that will apply.

This is more useful. You can tell your discount has dropped from what you expect, but I don't have to show a totally new value.

 

Sounds great. One more question, if expected deals shows 1 does this mean that you should take one more deal or can i ignore this if i already have 9 or 10 deals running but set the maximum expected deals by the follower to 15?

 

[rydin]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:21 AM, Lupine00 said:

I asked Rydin if his animations could also be included but there's been no response, so they will not be included in this release though they will still be supported, they won't be necessary. People can install the Rydin animations however they like, using either a stripped version like the one posted, or the original...

Hi @Lupine00, no sure how you messaged me as I haven't seen anything. Either I missed it or it's gone into the ether. It's fine to use my animations as long as there is a credit for using them provided.

[valcon767]

2 hours ago, xboronx said:

Sounds great. One more question, if expected deals shows 1 does this mean that you should take one more deal or can i ignore this if i already have 9 or 10 deals running but set the maximum expected deals by the follower to 15?

 

IIRC expected deals is how many deals your DF expects you to take (minimum number of deals they want you to have), and the maximum expected deals is the 

maximum number that expected deals can (depending on settings) rise to in game.

 

[Lupine00]

59 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

minimum number of deals they want you to have

This starts at zero, and it rises as the follower becomes bored of your antics.

 

For it to increase, you usually need more deals than the expected count. If you keep your deals below the expected count, the follower gets bored faster, but expected deals won't go up. There's a little strategy to it. Not much I admit.

[Nazzzgul666]

I never really played much with the slavery thing but i think this  is not there yet: When you're enslaved and go into dungoens, there is a chance that your follower will command you to seduce hostiles. Then while you fuck them he comes and kills them (or at least gets some hits for free while they're confused).
There is a mod that does that the other way around with a follower, i thought it would be nice to have that as a feature for the player as well - if it's possible.

Also... i suggested it to DD but since i can't even estimate if my suggestions there are appretiated or hated... if they don't add it, this guy made some awesome stuff: 

 

[Idynian]

The follower giving the player to bandits/dungeon denizens and then slitting their throats(when they're done of course). Would be an amazing addition for sure!

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Also... i suggested it to DD but since i can't even estimate if my suggestions there are appretiated or hated... if they don't add it, this guy made some awesome stuff:

I have this, but I haven't had time to experiment with it.

 

From what I read, I think there may be some strange bone weighting, and elements of it that are incompatible with how DD animates, so it can only work in carefully arranged poses without a lot more work.

 

Some parts of it should be able to work as DD devices without any problems.

 

It looks interesting, but I suspect it will be time consuming to make it useful in a game.

The same can be said of a number of gas masks and other rubber items that aren't in DD.

 

I like the look of those items, and I want them, but there are oddities with them that make them a little fiddly to add.

If I do that it will come at the cost of something of more general value.

 

  

9 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

When you're enslaved and go into dungoens, there is a chance that your follower will command you to seduce hostiles.

I like this, but it's really something that needs a mod of its own. I've wanted to do something with CoC type fight mechanics for a long time, but that stuff is all about calming, faction control, and so on, and it fits best in a mod that is all about those things ... I dunno ... maybe a Tiny Defeat mod with pluggable modules?  Sound exactly like a mechanic from my "manifesto" for integrating more sex into Skyrim.

[Nazzzgul666]

57 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

 

I like this, but it's really something that needs a mod of its own. I've wanted to do something with CoC type fight mechanics for a long time, but that stuff is all about calming, faction control, and so on, and it fits best in a mod that is all about those things ... I dunno ... maybe a Tiny Defeat mod with pluggable modules?  Sound exactly like a mechanic from my "manifesto" for integrating more sex into Skyrim.

Ah. Well.. it's true that calming and faction control likely would be necessary but i think there's a misunderstanding.^^ What i thought about was like...
"Hey you. Come over here."
*Ties hands if not already done*
"Now that you aren't a threat to anybody anymore.. go over to these bandits and let them fuck you. Then i can kill them easily."

Then you walk towards the now non-hostile bandits and either talk to them or make inviting poses or whatever. My initial thought was that you'll always succeed and get fucked and your follower will get a chance to kill at least some before they stop fucking and therefore increase chances to win the battle overall. There could be a chance they'd refuse as well and you have to run in circles or away from them, but for me that would be secondary.

I read your manifesto and i don't necessarily agree with all your points. I mean... yeah, Defeat and stuff can be more like a movie than interactive, but on the other hand... imho a story has to make sense. Does it make sense to be able to resist at any point? Imho not. And at least for me, the story is more important than the mechanics. That's also why i'd like it to be part of a mod like this. Technically i can get what i want by using Defeat, running into battle, get defeated and raped and set followers to be ignored. Would it make sense to do that? Not without a dialogue and circumstances forcing me to do so, though. That's why i'd still rather have it as part of this mod, it would make (more) sense to me.

On the other hand... i do agree again. In my last.. 20+ games i hardly entered any dungeons at all. Or at least not without a quest from a mod. Because my characters were/are weak, they would not go into dark caves with unknown enemies and (from their point of view) no chance to defeat them. I'd wish for a mod that encourages going there, with some reasons other than gold. Even if they don't start that way, rather sooner than later my chars would start to prostitute themselves because that is something they can reasonably expect to succeed and get gold. And that is way more like watching a movie than entering dungeons and seduce bandits.^^

But if you disagree... i can definitly understand you dont want to mess with faction controls and stuff, they seem to get messy easily and get this mod broken because of it is something i really don't want either.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

now non-hostile bandits

And that's why it's all about calm and faction control. 

 

3 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Technically i can get what i want by using Defeat, running into battle, get defeated and raped and set followers to be ignored.

That's using Defeat to manage your calming and faction control. Which it does with variable results. I'm not going to get tangled up in that mess.

If I'm going to deal with that, I'm going to do it seriously so I have some kind of path to incremental improvement.

 

3 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Does it make sense to be able to resist at any point? Imho not.

"any point" is not really what I'm suggesting there. The problem now is that there is a brain-dead boundary. Fighting, fighting, fighting ... defeat ... helpless, rapes, rapes, rapes.

 

The highly unsatisfactory escape bar never fixed this problem. Mashing buttons to fill that bar is not "resistance", as in practice it's a sudden escape that materializes out of nowhere, and the button-mashing game-play was usually annoying (or entirely dependent on the difficulties you configured, so mainly pointless).

 

Also, I think you're - somewhat - conflating "resist" and "escape" in your thinking. Maybe not, but it appears that way. It's not plausible to escape at any moment, but there are huge variety of scenarios where you could choose to resist, but there's currently no way to do that. First you have to define what "resist" means, and I simply mean that you are struggling, not simply letting the enemy do as they like, as if you were a puppet. That can be reflected in myriad ways, assuming that the NPC is capable of asserting their will over you somehow.

 

Resistance does not have to mean successful resistance. Maybe it means you're still fighting, but hand-to-hand against a stronger opponent (or multiple stronger opponents)? Or maybe it means you simply get a different sex animation to one where you appear to eagerly "fuck back"? Maybe it means a one-on-one rape is replaced with a group scene where the PC is held down by participants? (There are some animations like this available). Maybe it means the PC is angrily screaming abuse, but helpless to do anything? Or maybe they draw a concealed dagger and stab their attacker in the throat? However it plays out, you have some kind of influence over what happens that makes sense within the context of plausible actions at that time. Sure, if you're unconscious, or paralyzed by some lazy maguffin, or shocked to jelly by a slave collar, you might not be able to do anything beyond gasp for breath, but first you have to be knocked unconscious, or have a proper spell cast at you (that you should also be allowed access to) or they have to get that collar onto you. Once they manage that, then, it's all over.

 

More than anything, I want an end to this thing where you're walking down the street, then suddenly you freeze and stand there for several seconds, and some kind of rape event just starts. Even the Babo grabs and struggles in HH+ don't sit well with me, because the initial grab just happens. It doesn't have to be perfect. A completely dull mod where you brawl your rapists would be fine. Weak-girl players know they'll soon lose that fight, and even a fairly tough PC can lose to six NPC thugs, it it's unarmed. And if you wanted to escalate that to using weapons, you could, and then it's entirely your decision if the ultimate result is half the NPCs in Whiterun end up dead by the time it plays to the finish. That is the reason not to start swinging that warhammer in the first place. But if you really think it's worth creating total carnage and dealing with severe consequences afterwards, you have that option, and maybe that is what your RP sense demands.

 

The idea that NPCs too unimportant to even have names are able to cast some instant paralysis spell that renders you helpless, when you can't learn it or cast it, and the mages in Winterhold have never even heard of it, is the laziest of lazy excuses. I'd rather not have rapes in my game than accept something so annoying. And even stranger ... it only ever seems to get cast on the PC? It shatters immersion for me. It's a no effort excuse. At least make a halfhearted effort ... some situation where the PC is tricked into drinking some potion that causes recurring bouts of paralysis when highly-aroused, or something. If your mod is based around such an excuse, at least put the lousy excuse in the mod as an actual thing, and let the player avoid it if they want to (which they probably won't). An in-game switch is much nicer than an MCM switch.

 

 

The argument that installing a mod that lets NPCs rape you at will basically means you have a duty to rationalize it for yourself, with no effort on the part of the mod, doesn't make sense to me. Or, in so far as it makes any sense, it leads to the conclusion that you simply shouldn't install such a mod if you disagree with that mechanic (and I do not use one myself now). The obvious conclusion is that people who can't tolerate such mod-mechanics are very much in need of an alternative right now, because there isn't one. Obviously, SL Adventures and DCL do allow some conditions to be set for rape, including devices, but they way it's all done is not immersive. And SLD is no better, but I really only added rapes to that because I wanted to learn how to do it. It's not really ... finished ... it's a simply a step in the journey. See the start of this post ... there's calming and faction work to do, and lots besides, to make it so you can resist.

 

 

If you want something to not make sense, and argue you won't like it, because it doesn't make sense, and possibly describe extreme edge cases as representing the norm - like a certain mod-developer does any time she doesn't like an idea - then you can "prove" that anything doesn't make sense. But that pre-supposes that the implementation will be bad, and the implementer is an idiot, and there's a certain conceit to it. It's a little like telling somebody they're too dumb to make something good, even if you're just thinking "hmm, that's gonna be hard to make it good, I wouldn't go there myself".

 

 

There are exactly zero Skyrim mods that make sense in every context, but we put up with them if they either do something fun, or make sense most of the time, and ones that do both are usually quite well liked.

 

 

The moment that a mod randomly takes control away from you and makes you walk to places, or engage in sex scenes, or magically appear in a cell, without you explicitly allowing it, in some way, by submitting-as-an-ongoing-action, then the control, and the fun, got taken away from the player. The game has stopped and they're just watching a movie. For people who just want to watch a movie and fap there are several threads of high-quality machinima-created movies to watch. You don't need to play the game to see that stuff.

 

Is everything in the manifesto achievable in Skyrim? Probably not, at least in a realistic time-frame. Skyrim is just too unreliable, and Papyrus scripting too crippled by timing issues, thread synchronization problems, arbitrary execution delay, random stack exhaustion, apparently arbitrary script suspension, contention between mods, and problematic limitations in the underlying engine, to make those things easy or entirely reliable.

 

 

Nevertheless, people put up with DD, and it only fits an item successfully about 80% of the time, and people do use Defeat and DAYMOYL despite many serious problems with them.

 

 

Imperfection is not the problem, it's more a question of effort vs reward, and the reward is very much in the eye of the beholder.

[Nazzzgul666]

22 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Imperfection is not the problem, it's more a question of effort vs reward, and the reward is very much in the eye of the beholder.

I can 100% sign that part. For the others, well... it was less of a confusion of resistance vs escape, more of a ... what *can* be done and what is worth the effort. You already covered the latter with that quote and you have a far better clue for the first, so i'm not going to argue with you on that one. And actually you got me really excited, which calmed down again as you mentioned all the limitations of Skyrim. Would i like a mod like you described? Definitly. Well, maybe depends on the compromises you have to make, but the concept sounds awesome. 

I was describing my idea rather out of a "others have done it, so it's possible" perspective - and from my point of view it would be... well, worth the effort is easy to say since i'm not going to do it due to my own limitations. At no point i meant to upset you with that, though, i'll humbly crawl back into my cave and hope you or somebody else would be able to come up with something. ❤️

*edit: I'd still like to add some clarification, even though you made clear you don't intend to follow it: the reason i suggested it for this mod was because it fits of the overall scheme of "Followers demand nasty things of you". I didn't actually intend it to be a defeat alternative, although it somewhat goes into that direction.

[Lupine00]

23 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

"others have done it, so it's possible" perspective

I certainly wasn't suggesting it's impossible, but if you want to do calming and factions right, there's at least a certain level of effort you have to put in before you can get any good results. Code Serpent will attest to that I think...

 

I have a technical plan to get there. The first issue is high-performance scanning, which I intend to deliver first in SLAX. If that doesn't work out for me, it will be harder to do other things, but I believe it's feasible. A good scanner makes dealing with NPCs in fights a bit more reliable and responsive. That scanner will if - if it works - be available to DF to fix the enslavement sex, and in SLD to simplify rape management, and it will be a foundation piece for Tiny Defeat.

 

  

23 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

even though you made clear you don't intend to follow it

I do want to do something like that, but it's reliant on getting other features in other mods to do the heavy lifting first. For the meantime, DF has its roadmap, and that means more deals, more games and enslavement improvements mainly based around fixing the scanner so what is currently there works better.