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One thing I can do, it take the doggy-pose spanking stage from Anub Rape, and create a new SLAL entry that is just that stage repeated.

I also want to make a copy of Anub Rape with that stage repeated three times where it appears only once at the moment.

 

I'm not going to do that with SexLab stage hacks, because they can send SLSO crazy.

 

The logical way to do it is with a patch to the Anub Human SLAL pack. 

That's going to have to be highly optional, so it's a load more work to support, and why I didn't do it straight off.

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I haven't had a chance yet to look at what you've done with the spanking animations, but Rydin Overlap Spanking doesn't need furniture and looks fine outside or in a dungeon.  If there were a way o configure which animations are used inside or outside, that might address the concern about whether spanking should done outdoors.

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1 minute ago, HexBolt8 said:

Rydin Overlap Spanking

Not supported as of yet.

 

The effort I put into supporting the existing animations in detail, balancing the number and speed of spanks, the handling of different stages, finding weird limitations in sound playback ... it took hours ... you wouldn't think so, but they didn't just "happen" so adding new animations is not so easy.

 

To support more animations will require moving that largely experimental code to a data-driven approach.

 

The current animation names are in the ESP, so you can change them with Tes5Edit, which triggers a special fallback mode in the code so you get generic patterns.

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Revisiting the spanking deal...

 

The original plan was:

STA required.

Level 1 - hard spanking session on taking deal, no further spanks unless debt exceeds a threshold, with no more than one spank session a day

Level 2 - always spanked after waking up, plus as above

Level 3 - spanking on entering an inn or any dwelling, possibly after leaving a shop, plus as above

 

Having seen how the spanking plays out, I'm probably going to change to:

STA not required.

Level 1 - a single paddling on taking the deal. Asking for a spanking restores a small random number of follower lives.

Level 2 - player must ask for a spanking at least once per 24 hours or get punishment debt.

Level 3 - player must ask for a spanking at least once per 8 hours awake. Anything that adds punishment debt also results in an involuntary spanking (cooldown permitting, you can't get chain-spanked). Forced spanking counts towards the requested spanking quota. i.e. if you don't ask to be spanked in time, you'll get spanked anyway and get debt.

 

There is no buyout timer for this deal. Instead, each spank you ask for counts as half a "day" on the timer. If you have a three day timer, you must have six spanks to reduce it to zero.

Each new stage multiplies the timer. So at stage three, it's a "nine day" buyout (eighteen spanks to reduce to normal buyout cost).

You can only get spanked once per four hours at most, so it may take a while to total up those spanks.

 

If you are put in heavy-bondage, the deal is temporarily suspended, but gets its buyout "timer" reset to max!

This even counts if it's heavy bondage added by a deal. Those followers can be very devious!

 

If STA present, armor that blocks spanks is not allowed in dwellings from level 2 up and is punished with immediate debt.

 

 

Other spanking possibilities:

(Not part of the deal).

These are just ideas.

 

If enabled, device removal is locked each morning (the lock is only imposed while willpower below 7), and is unlocked by asking for spanks.

Heavy bondage blocks spanks, so you better ask before you need heavy-bondage removed!

This isn't influenced by whether you have the deal, so requested spanks from the deal count towards this.

 

Also, for enslavement, each awakening, the player must ask for a spanking before the follower will perform any helpful actions, and any punishment resets this.

 

You may ask a guard for spanks instead of a follower, regardless of masochism or boredom. The guard may refuse. If accepted, some minor bounty reduction occurs (up to 50 or so). If you don't have a bounty you can still get spanked. Guards usually like to administer discipline!

 

 

Feedback welcome! Please offer improvements if you can think of them.

 

Have some awareness that it's much easier for me to do things the player initiates than have the follower initiate them.

Follower initiated actions either rely on Hellos (which are somewhat unreliable) or on AI, which is time-consuming to add.

Something that involves a scene with an NPC is also a big time sink because DF has no scene management framework.

My current suggestions are based around ease of implementation as much as features.

e.g. I just re-did the deal pricing system, so I know exactly how to implement the custom pay-off for that.

I can drive the punishments above off Hellos, which is cheap and easy.

 

Locking device removal involves adding a bunch of conditions to dialog, but fairly straightforward.

Locking all helpful actions for slaves is a bit more time consuming, as they are spread about a bit more, but it's the same sort of work.

 

Adding guard spanks is just a couple of dialogs and a fragment or two. Takes time, but predictable time.

 

 

Due to working with STA, I got some ideas for things I wish it had...

One is "sore bum mechanic".

  • A player with a sore bottom immediately squeals and gets up if she sits in a chair.
  • She can't sleep well if she's not a masochist. She can't sleep without a sore bum if she is a masochist. (I think SLS adds this, but I'm not 100% sure).
  • Player has dialogs available with follower and others about her sore bum.
  • Vendors make smart comments.
  • Innkeepers make smart comments.
  • Being spanked at high pain levels for non-masochist adds tears, even if it's just one slap.
  • Being spanked at high pain levels for non-masochist results in pleading, not aggressive words.

 

There is already something in STA (or SLS?) that makes NPCs comment on your spanking, and it's awesome.

They'll say things like, "I see you finally learned your place?" or "Somebody's been a bad girl," or "You won't be sitting down for a while."

I loved it. It works so well with this feature too, because the spanks are no longer just "random" and it feels way more immersive.

 

I think there's a bit more incentive to try and avoid masochism now. That might need to be easier than it currently is.

Some practical/fun way to ward off constant spank attacks? Like the cover mechanic?

 

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2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Did you allow STA time to update? It tracks spanks over hourly intervals and only updates occasionally. 

It's possible that your install is not quite right. Is your masochism updating properly?

Will double check the pain updates, possible I just wasn't patient enough.  I can confirm the masochism stat did update properly even after installing this latest alpha (though that was before the new scene played, since the stat wasn't originally high enough to trigger the scene).

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6 minutes ago, stobor said:

Will double check the pain updates, possible I just wasn't patient enough.

I'll check to see if the way I tried to optimize handling those caused any problems.

STA updates the pain buff/debuff every spank, which struck me as pointless during a sex scene - it's set up for random single spanks.

So I only call the update once at the end. Maybe that breaks it and at least something has to be called every spank?

As far as I saw, the pain level is simply based off the "spot" intensity, which is updated every spank.

As I said, I'll check.

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Should asking for spanking from a guard reduce resistance (in addition to normal resistance loss from spanking)?  Even a spank-happy character might not enjoy the humiliation.

 

A spanked bottom should not go well with horse riding.

 

Level 1 of the planned non STA required spank deals seems a little light.  What about something like having to ask for a spanking from a guard whenever entering a hold capital?  (As far as I know those all have guards.)  If the guard refuses, you've still satisfied the requirement.  That keeps you guessing whether you'll actually receive a spanking, and reduces the potential tedium of having to find a willing guard for a level 1 deal. 

 

"There is no buyout timer for this deal."  How devious! 

 

"Some practical/fun way to ward off constant spank attacks?"  Not "fun", but a Follower Blocks Spanks option (presumably in STA) would offer extra incentive to have a follower around.  The follower considers your bottom to be his or hers, so no one else gets to play without permission.

 

EDIT (just saw the update):  "Restricted spanking requests to within dwellings."  When dungeon delving, won't that interfere with having to ask for spanks every X hours?

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1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Should asking for spanking from a guard reduce resistance (in addition to normal resistance loss from spanking)?  Even a spank-happy character might not enjoy the humiliation.

Spanking will always reduce resistance. Maybe not fatigue though.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Level 1 of the planned non STA required spank deals seems a little light.

You do have to ask for a minimum number of spanks to remove the deal. Depends how many days your deals usually run for. A bit light if it's just one. Or zero! Maybe it has its own minimum?

 

Level 1 deals are all light, so it's not wildly out of balance with others. The guard option is tempting though. Probably will need to refine it through testing.

 

Follower blocking spanks is indeed not "fun". Also, that's a bit of a STA issue.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

When dungeon delving, won't that interfere with having to ask for spanks every X hours?

I need to support more animations before I can address that problem. When it's every 24 hours. Not really a problem. For every 8, possibly a problem.

 

I'm going to think about it a while longer before adding the spanking deal and other spanking fun. Also, SLAX and SLD need things...

 

I need to update dev machine to the latest FNIS so I can re-FNIS-for-modders the DF animations, and look at the pain-issue.

Other than that, not going to do anything on DF until some new bugs show up, or don't.

 

Hopefully closing in on a release.

 

I'm thinking that 2.13 will have actual spanking deal, more spanking features, and patrolling menaces that may demand sex or spanks from low-willpower characters with no follower.

 

As for more features in STA, I just posted them at Monoman, but he probably won't do them. He's gone off STA it seems.

 

If I do a bigger patch for STA, it will definitely allow you a way to get spanked and speak in non-rape animations, as I have some concrete ideas on how that can fit in the code.

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Just tried upgrading to the latest alpha from the previous one and I can't get the MCM to load. Setstage won't kick it up on an older game, and it's also not showing up in a new game for me.

 

Also. is the text Victim Conditions Met from DF? And is so is there any way to turn it off?

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2 hours ago, Xiaron said:

Just tried upgrading to the latest alpha from the previous one and I can't get the MCM to load.

I didn't try that, but for what it's worth the MCM works for me on a clean install into a save that didn't have DFC before.

 

@Lupine00, at some point can you list which parts of Nibbles Objects and Abub's Human packs are used for spanking?  To manage animation count, I strip down SLAL packs to just the parts that I intend to use.  For the animated objects themselves, must the pack's esp file be installed or is it sufficient to just have the mesh and texture files? 

 

"Refined how wearing devices modifies max resistance."  Nice changes there!

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5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I also investigated the pain updating in Spank that Ass, and could not find any problems there.

Further problem reports in that area are invited.

 

I think I've figured out what the problem was, after digging into the code and a log that traced the relevant scene - and I can see why it would be hard to reproduce.

 

The steps I went through were as follows:

  1. start with character at max effect; IntensityAss, IntensityTits are both 1.0
  2. sleep 8 hours; on waking, IntensityTits was 0.58, IntensityAss was still 1.0
  3. do the scene with follower; looking at the code, this only applies spankings to the ass... which is already at full intensity.  same is true in the end-of-scene Fixup call.
  4. end result: neither Intensity changed, so neither did the pain buffs/debuffs

In typical SLA usage, hits are applied to both t&a pretty much evenly as far as I can tell.  In the new scenes, presumably based on the specifics of the chosen animations, only the ass gets hit.  That's more realistic, but under these conditions it also means the scene has little or no effect.

 

TLDR: I think the mystery is solved.  What (if anything) you want to do about it is up to you, of course.

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An idea for a possible deal is a Key Deal.  You're permitted to keep the keys you have now, but any new keys that you find are taken by the DF (destroyed or stored in an inaccessible place).  Key count would be allowed to increase by the amount won from the key gambling game.  If you run out of keys (or started with none) you'll have to gamble for them or pay for an unlock while the deal is in effect.  A possible exception for key removal would be in a player home, since obviously keys entering your inventory there are already owned by you, not found.  Or not.  It's in the DF's interest to make you gamble or pay, but I was thinking that a single deal shouldn't be crippling. 

 

I also thought about a key holder arrangement (key control) but being protected from having your keys stolen is quite an advantage.  It might work if the DF keeps some fraction (half or more) of the keys to be held or controlled, with a cap on how many count as yours so you can't bank too many (any keys taken by the DF to be controlled after the cap automatically go to the DF).  A form of key control like this could be an effective solution if you're finding too many keys.

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1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

I didn't try that, but for what it's worth the MCM works for me on a clean install into a save that didn't have DFC before.

 

That's the only thing I can't test, since all my current saves have some version of DFC on them. The fact it's not showing up for me even on a new game is problematic, even if I wait, save and reload after exiting the LAL cell still nothing.

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4 hours ago, Xiaron said:

Also. is the text Victim Conditions Met from DF? And is so is there any way to turn it off?

It's off in the latest alpha. Or, it should be. I remember deleting it.

If it's still showing up, I need to know :) 

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2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's off in the latest alpha. Or, it should be. I remember deleting it.

If it's still showing up, I need to know :) 

Ah, good to know. I still can't get the latest alpha working for some reason. Or at least, the MCM refuses to appear. I tried a new game a second time, and it's still not working either with that or dropped in on top of the previous alpha in my current save. Any suggestions for troubleshooting?

 

Edit: I think the latest alpha release might be missing files, which was why the MCM wasn't showing for me. I use MO and unchecked the previous version when loading the newest. No MCM shows when I do that, but if loaded on top of the previous alpha, or an older version (though that shows that versions MCM) the MCM is there. 

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1 hour ago, Xiaron said:

Edit: I think the latest alpha release might be missing files, which was why the MCM wasn't showing for me. I use MO and unchecked the previous version when loading the newest. No MCM shows when I do that, but if loaded on top of the previous alpha, or an older version (though that shows that versions MCM) the MCM is there. 

I'll check that, but missing an "old" file is unlikely, because of the way I build the releases.

Missing a new one is possible.

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3 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'll check that, but missing an "old" file is unlikely, because of the way I build the releases.

Missing a new one is possible.

It may just be missing the MCM files, and loading it on top of an older version is showing the MCM packaged with that release?

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5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

at some point can you list which parts of Nibbles Objects and Abub's Human packs are used for spanking?

  • Nibbles Objects uses 'Nibbles Spanking (Paddle)' and 'Nibbles Spanking (Chair)'.
  • Anub Human uses 'Anub  Rape'
  • Rydin uses 'Rydin Overlap Spanking' and 'Rydin Underarm Spanking'
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50 minutes ago, Xiaron said:

It may just be missing the MCM files, and loading it on top of an older version is showing the MCM packaged with that release?

I did a quick compare of the folders from 2.11 and the 2.12 alpha.

There are no orphans in the 2.11 folder.

i.e. 2.12 is a full super-set of 2.11 files; there is no old file missing from it.

 

 

Also, the MCM script file is definitely present and updated in 2.12 as is the crucial _DFSpankShim.pex

 

Are you by any chance, not a user of Spank That Ass?

It's possible that not having that is related to your problems. You shouldn't need it, but I haven't tested without it.

In any case, if there was an issue with that, it should only manifest when you open the Other Mods menu.

 

Are there any peculiarities of your install you aren't mentioning, like not running in English, or having an old FNIS version, or not running FNIS, or having an old PapyrusUtil install? Or ... something to do with a particular Follower Framework? 

 

I notice that new FNIS complains about numerous errors in the Rydin pack. I looked into the cause of that, and could fix the pack very easily ... but the errors don't cause me any problems, and relate to animations that aren't in the SLAL setup, so shouldn't be exercised. If you have some old version of Rydin, maybe the actual animations for those FNIS declarations are present, and cause problems due to being corrupt (and were removed for that reason?) I don't know about that. Wild speculation.

 

You might also want to be sure that your Anub Human is up to date, if you have it. I didn't test with the older ones.

 

 

The oddity here is that 2.12 doesn't make any weird additions to the MCM that would require a new dependency, that I can think of.

Also, that you can get something with your old files seems like it bombs out trying to fill a property, which is normally a non-fatal problem.

 

 

Have you looked in your log? I would expect something in there if your MCM can't start due to a crash - which is almost certainly the problem.

 

Have you checked that it's not an MO oddity, like it disabling the ESP file in the right pane LO list when you add the new mod install?

I have that happen quite often.

When I install an update of an existing mod, as a new mod, and let it override the old one, the ESP is enabled, and works fine.

Yet, when I untick the old mod, for no logical reason, MO disables the ESP in the right pane.

Sometimes it only does this if I quit and reload MO. In some cases it loses the position in the LO too, like it's decided the ESPs are completely different, despite having the exact same name.

This can result in the ESP getting sorted into a silly place in the right pane, instead of being unticked.

 

The more I think about the details of your problem - such as seeing an old version even though new files should be overwriting - I think you have an MO problem. Maybe check in the right pane files view to see that it thinks files are coming from the mod you expect?

 

It seems possible you have some old DF install floating around at the bottom of your left pane that you forgot about. I know I have hundreds of unticked mods in there, and some that are ticked in that sea of unused stuff at the bottom of my left pane. Or maybe a merge mod or output from something that has copied DF files into itself?

 

Another cause of oddities is the LDC. Sometimes people have trouble recreating that list.

I store my LDC output in a mod of its own, but if you put it into some other mod, or into your old DF mod, then it might cause problems.

 

Also check your Overwrite is clean, as that's shared between profiles - which is probably why MO warns you if its got things in.

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Just a thought on Whore Armor.

 

Melodic's new "Sexy Maid" outfit seems well suited as a custom replacement for the cloth/mage whore "armor".

 

DF is never going to include big fancy outfits like that. Sexy Maid is tiny by Melodic standards, but still over 70MB, but you can easily add them yourself.

 

Install the textures to their standard location, then just copy the mesh files that come out of your Bodyslide* to the custom whore armor location and name them appropriately.

 

* DF only supports one mesh, so only worry about the body slot piece, and leave the rest in their normal location. Add those items yourself via the console, the follower doesn't demand you wear them, but maybe you want to anyway? :) 

 

 

Do people feel that multi-slot support would be a big benefit for whore armor?

Do people like the whore armor feature?

Do you customize it?

 

Would it be better if whore armor worked by 'tagging' any outfits you have in your game - like prostitution uniforms in most solicitation mods?

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Spoiler

 

35 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I did a quick compare of the folders from 2.11 and the 2.12 alpha.

There are no orphans in the 2.11 folder.

i.e. 2.12 is a full super-set of 2.11 files; there is no old file missing from it.

 

 

Also, the MCM script file is definitely present and updated in 2.12 as is the crucial _DFSpankShim.pex

 

Are you by any chance, not a user of Spank That Ass?

It's possible that not having that is related to your problems. You shouldn't need it, but I haven't tested without it.

In any case, if there was an issue with that, it should only manifest when you open the Other Mods menu.

 

Are there any peculiarities of your install you aren't mentioning, like not running in English, or having an old FNIS version, or not running FNIS, or having an old PapyrusUtil install? Or ... something to do with a particular Follower Framework? 

 

I notice that new FNIS complains about numerous errors in the Rydin pack. I looked into the cause of that, and could fix the pack very easily ... but the errors don't cause me any problems, and relate to animations that aren't in the SLAL setup, so shouldn't be exercised. If you have some old version of Rydin, maybe the actual animations for those FNIS declarations are present, and cause problems due to being corrupt (and were removed for that reason?) I don't know about that. Wild speculation.

 

You might also want to be sure that your Anub Human is up to date, if you have it. I didn't test with the older ones.

 

 

The oddity here is that 2.12 doesn't make any weird additions to the MCM that would require a new dependency, that I can think of.

Also, that you can get something with your old files seems like it bombs out trying to fill a property, which is normally a non-fatal problem.

 

 

Have you looked in your log? I would expect something in there if your MCM can't start due to a crash - which is almost certainly the problem.

 

Have you checked that it's not an MO oddity, like it disabling the ESP file in the right pane LO list when you add the new mod install?

I have that happen quite often.

When I install an update of an existing mod, as a new mod, and let it override the old one, the ESP is enabled, and works fine.

Yet, when I untick the old mod, for no logical reason, MO disables the ESP in the right pane.

Sometimes it only does this if I quit and reload MO. In some cases it loses the position in the LO too, like it's decided the ESPs are completely different, despite having the exact same name.

This can result in the ESP getting sorted into a silly place in the right pane, instead of being unticked.

 

The more I think about the details of your problem - such as seeing an old version even though new files should be overwriting - I think you have an MO problem. Maybe check in the right pane files view to see that it thinks files are coming from the mod you expect?

 

It seems possible you have some old DF install floating around at the bottom of your left pane that you forgot about. I know I have hundreds of unticked mods in there, and some that are ticked in that sea of unused stuff at the bottom of my left pane. Or maybe a merge mod or output from something that has copied DF files into itself?

 

Another cause of oddities is the LDC. Sometimes people have trouble recreating that list.

I store my LDC output in a mod of its own, but if you put it into some other mod, or into your old DF mod, then it might cause problems.

 

Also check your Overwrite is clean, as that's shared between profiles - which is probably why MO warns you if its got things in.

 

 

Found the problem. It was indeed missing files...on my end. I had tried reinstalling but the problem was the download.  The answers to your diagnostic questions were "correct" (English, files/programs/animations up to date, using StA, checking the esp on the right and no other DFC checked in the left pane I was missing) So I went back to square one. Downloading a new copy and fresh installing it seems to have fixed the MCM issue for me. Sorry about that!

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Great job. I have some ideas.

 

Could be good, that the ncp that by the character in the AH can be a women too. Besides, If you dont want to be slave, the character is release in a cave and when the character go out to the cave, and after, nothing happend.

 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Do people feel that multi-slot support would be a big benefit for whore armor?

Do people like the whore armor feature?

Do you customize it?

 

Would it be better if whore armor worked by 'tagging' any outfits you have in your game - like prostitution uniforms in most solicitation mods?

 

1. no I don't think multi-slot support is better.  I strongly prefer no-helmet play, so it would either be hidden using another mod or be a deal breaker.  Gloves are generally not a kink for most players I think, they just don't offer much sex appeal and they interfere with glove/mitten devices, as well some niche cosmetic mods like the long nails and stuff.  Boots make a lot of sense as they are directly kink related, but at the same time they have conflict issues with boot devices.  There is also a chunk of players who dislike heels and a chunk of players that use them exclusively.  Finally adding boots to the whore armor sacrifices the potential of using boots as a part of another deal.  Seems like a lot of drawbacks for not a ton of gain.  The only reason for multislot support I see is to give players quick access to matching boots to their new costume.

 

2.  I think the whore armor is in my top 2 favorite deals.  Conventional clothing as pseudo-bondage is of my favorite kinks (high heels, corsets, poofy ball gowns, long nails, flimsy breakable clothing ect.) I even like it more than straight bondage.  It has it's best impact the first time you play, as the "forced dressing" kink doesn't feel all that forced the second time around and even less so when the player is picking the outfit.  I think there is a lot of value in having a pre-packaged outfit to surprise first time players, but the customization has a lot of value as well for repeat players or players who simply hate the prepackage/

 

3.  yes

 

The perfect is the enemy of good. I think the perfect system would be to have an in game way to tag the armor you want to use as a replacement for the sake of less savvy players.  Most players can manage to open MCM and click "use this armor" or something and then save/load setting for the next game.  However I don't know if that kind of system has a good cost/benefit if it is used just for the sake of 1 stage of 1 deal.  Clothing control is a great fit for DF but unless it's for a buildup towards a big chunk of content, I think the feature works well enough as is.

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