Are We Lonely?

[Alter Native]

Just a guy that needs to pick fights. There's no substance here. 

 

[Tirloque]

3 hours ago, Alter Native said:

Just a guy that needs to pick fights. There's no substance here.

Indeed. Though that Bison quote was classy as hell. ^^

14 hours ago, Cema said:

When you receive a message telling you someone quoted your name on  a topic and 2 pages later you still don' t get what the whole thing is about :

 

We were having a pleasing discussion with a guy claiming all screens done under Blender were necessarily original and quality ones, whereas Skyrim's whole screenarchery scene would sum up as low quality chill-bait lolita close-ups made by uninspired loners. Photoshop then being a mere treacherous trick to prevent users discriminating high end valid information from utter copycat garbage. And then, the guy (which avatar's is a cat btw) posts samples of his work (which I quoted), on which I would've been interested in getting your analysis on.

 

Anyway, this is most likely an unresolved personal issue from that user, so there isn't necessarily a point in punishing him more than he already did all by himself. Sorry to have intruded you, Cema.

[Pork Type]

9 hours ago, Alter Native said:

Just a guy that needs to pick fights. There's no substance here. 

Hey! I don't need competition.

 

(Actually, I just shitpost.)

[Cema]

 

 

Horrible screen composition

 

When you make a picture, a drawing, a painting or whatever the first thing you should think about is "what does this picture tell me?". A picture is a medium you use to convey a message. Making a picture is like writing a sentence. There is a subject, a verb and some kind of complement. The subject is what attracts the eye first on the image. The verb describes the action. The complement is what the subject interact with (objects and background).

 

Here you got nothing. The eye is just confused, you got a bunch of characters where none is more important than the other and it's even difficult to figure what everyone is really doing

 

I would say the fact that the picture has no depth and the lighting sucks is also a problem but the point above is really what makes it fucking terrible.

 

Another image with no depth, and bland lighting but from someone who knew how to make a picture :

 

 

 

See the difference? Everyone but 3 people is looking the same person. And those 3 while not facing him still point their fingers toward him. The main character is in the middle of the picture and while the background is boring he is also the only one with his head aligned with a window so that makes him stand out more.

 

 

[KoolHndLuke]

13 hours ago, Cema said:

 

The focus is clearly on the Krogan in the middle with the big grin on his face because he just walked through customs with 50 lbs of red sand (and one small fish). You notice him more since his hump is aligned with the broken ventilation slats behind him.

 

 I couldn't get all those npcs into pose like that in ME and it must have taken a long time to set up. What a person may lack in artistic talent can be overlooked because of their sheer technical ability- hence great mods with crappy screenshots (or none!). Many mod authors say on their mod pages that they can't take screenshots for shit. Given a choice between a great screenshot and a great mod, I'll take the mod every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

[Tirloque]

On 8/13/2019 at 11:34 AM, KoolHndLuke said:

The focus is clearly on the Krogan in the middle with the big grin on his face because he just walked through customs with 50 lbs of red sand (and one small fish). You notice him more since his hump is aligned with the broken ventilation slats behind him.

You don't notice that if you don't know ME in the first place, as you won't even know that those are customs and what red sand is. Not knowing those and seeing characters everywhere with nearly the same size and only interacting by groups, with some dressed rather formally could instead lead you to think this is some kind of party...

On 8/13/2019 at 11:34 AM, KoolHndLuke said:

 I couldn't get all those npcs into pose like that in ME and it must have taken a long time to set up. What a person may lack in artistic talent can be overlooked because of their sheer technical ability- hence great mods with crappy screenshots (or none!). Many mod authors say on their mod pages that they can't take screenshots for shit. Given a choice between a great screenshot and a great mod, I'll take the mod every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

You're right about that, Luke. But then, those knowing only screenarchery shouldn't brag about their technical modding skills, and those knowing only modding shouldn't boast about their artistic image creation skills.

 

However, you'd notice that despite all, I still recognized there were some work over that image. Just not enough to lecture seasoned screenarchers about "valid end user information", but still work nevertheless.

On 8/12/2019 at 10:28 PM, Cema said:

Horrible screen composition

 

When you make a picture, a drawing, a painting or whatever the first thing you should think about is "what does this picture tell me?". A picture is a medium you use to convey a message. Making a picture is like writing a sentence. There is a subject, a verb and some kind of complement. The subject is what attracts the eye first on the image. The verb describes the action. The complement is what the subject interact with (objects and background).

 

Here you got nothing. The eye is just confused, you got a bunch of characters where none is more important than the other and it's even difficult to figure what everyone is really doing

 

I would say the fact that the picture has no depth and the lighting sucks is also a problem but the point above is really what makes it fucking terrible.

 

Another image with no depth, and bland lighting but from someone who knew how to make a picture :

 

 

See the difference? Everyone but 3 people is looking the same person. And those 3 while not facing him still point their fingers toward him. The main character is in the middle of the picture and while the background is boring he is also the only one with his head aligned with a window so that makes him stand out more.

I appreciate how you highlight the importance of thinking a screen though the same composition work than a Leonardo Da Vinci painting. That enforces the idea that even 600 years later, the basics of art are still the same, whether it expresses itself as a now recognized classical painting, or under the form of a modern human giving free rein to her/his creativity through a common computer.

 

 

Maybe Da Vinci was a lonely guy with no Instagram ?

 

[27X]

On 8/12/2019 at 4:42 AM, Tirloque said:

 

Anyway, this is most likely an unresolved personal issue from that user,

 

Hardly. The issue is Skyrim's screenarchery was borne almost solely from Nexus and Tumblr and consists of the same vapid comments and techniques repeated into  a sludge of mediocrity that Disney would be proud to mainline at any corporate venue save for the unrepentant nipples.

 

The fact you've unsuccessfully tried to make it personal twice in this thread and twice in another when I can hit nexus right now and don't even have to comment on the section usage pro or con, much less tumblr's literal endless gigs of horizontal paywall advertising at three quarter angle with SnapDragon DOF set to "in her cervix" that the users thereof can't even actually run in game if they were forced to do it gunpoint much less the photoshop dithering is telling.

 

I was actually the first person to bring up the rule of threes into visual storytelling and rule of third along with using focal composition hereof, so it's pretty cool you learning me real good on upvotes mattering as an objective metric of composition, especially when people like Scrolltronic/Guk and prod80 and Kingeric actually provide tools down to Fibonacci overlays for making your shots look like you at least tried.

 

When you're unilaterally nice and fuzzy, you're simply promoting halfassery and lo, there it is in abundance.

 

 

Quote

Horrible screen composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens

 

roflmao.

 

 

[Tirloque]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

The fact you've unsuccessfully tried to make it personal twice in this thread and twice in another when I can hit nexus right now and don't even have to comment on the section usage pro or con, much less tumblr's literal endless gigs of horizontal paywall advertising at three quarter angle with SnapDragon DOF set to "in her cervix" that the users thereof can't even actually run in game if they were forced to do it gunpoint much less the photoshop dithering is telling.

Really ? Because if it's of facts that we're talking right now, I don't want to look like your Bison quote, but I don't recall having ever had the pleasure to answer to you in any thread but this one. And if you weren't in some kind of delusion in the first place, you may have realized that I offered you quite a lot of possibilities of honorable ways out  through my answers to KoolHndLuke. Which other thread are you talking about, precisely ?

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

I was actually the first person to bring up the rule of threes into visual storytelling and rule of third along with using focal composition hereof (...)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens

Uhh... Interesting. Would you be in some way really attempting to compare yourself to Raphael ? Do you want to bring it once more about the quality of the shadows/lighting and of the scenery, or will you be the first to bring up about them next year ?

 

Anyway, if the facts you mentioned earlier aren't a delusion either, could you please link us to the thread you were referring to ? Bring facts to us, 27X.

[Mr. Otaku]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

Hardly. The issue is Skyrim's screenarchery was borne almost solely from Nexus and Tumblr

Not even close. You're severely unaware how many sub-sites there are out there where people share stuff like that. This includes sites in other languages and regions and people from all around the world. Just because Nexus and Tumblr are more visible to you doesn't mean they established it solely.

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

and consists of the same vapid comments and techniques repeated into  a sludge of mediocrity that Disney would be proud to mainline at any corporate venue save for the unrepentant nipples.

Disney doesn't care about anything that isn't a pile of virtue signalling burning heap of landfill trash. No matter how "mediocre" a screenshot is to you it's still not the same as shitting all over fans and wrecking storylines. False equivalency on your part.

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

The fact you've unsuccessfully tried to make it personal twice in this thread and twice in another when I can hit nexus right now and don't even have to comment on the section usage pro or con, much less tumblr's literal endless gigs of horizontal paywall advertising at three quarter angle with SnapDragon DOF set to "in her cervix" that the users thereof can't even actually run in game if they were forced to do it gunpoint much less the photoshop dithering is telling.

I know i'm a third party here, but from a third party's view, going through this entire thread it's actually you getting overly defensive and making things personal. The first reply that guy gave you was merely pointing to your comment and giving his take on it, it was you who spiralled it into a "look i understand better" contest. In many occasions the third party can see more clearly than both sides because the third party has no obligation to harbor any bias.

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

I was actually the first person to bring up the rule of threes into visual storytelling and rule of third along with using focal composition hereof, so it's pretty cool you learning me real good on upvotes mattering as an objective metric of composition, especially when people like Scrolltronic/Guk and prod80 and Kingeric actually provide tools down to Fibonacci overlays for making your shots look like you at least tried.

What visual storytelling? What focal composition? "so it's pretty cool you learning me real good on upvotes mattering as an objective metric of composition" <- what? You'll do better if you stop being overly verbose can i say that at least? And whatever example of Fibonacci overlays you're talking about is not here, or at least you've not shown yet so that's a bag of whole lotta nothing.

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

When you're unilaterally nice and fuzzy, you're simply promoting halfassery and lo, there it is in abundance.

Not complaining/nitpicking constantly ≠ unilaterally being nice and "fuzzy". That's a logical fallacy which assumes that communication is black and white with no middle ground. If there's an abundance of something it means enough people are liking it and doing it. This is a non-issue in the general sense because not everyone is even interested to make mona lisa level art pieces.

 

1 hour ago, 27X said:

Quote

Horrible screen composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens

 

roflmao.

I'm sorry but if you're trying to compare your mess of a picture with the school of athens then just stop. LUL what is this? That picture is leagues above yours in every single way. Just because there are many characters illustrated in the picture, doesn't mean it's on the level of your uninspired 3d models. School of athens can be understood, even if someone doesn't know what it means, one can simply look at it and think of something and at least have a clue of what's going on and what it's trying to convey.

 

This down here, this is what we call a Mess. And if you can't tell why that is (which i know you can't, otherwise you wouldn't have gone on this spiral to begin with) then  it's simply a shortcoming on your end. Don't mean to be harsh or seem like coming off as hostile, just saying it like it is.

On 8/13/2019 at 1:58 AM, Cema said:

 

I wanted to add quickly here that, where are the damn shadows in your image? It looks impressively bland because no object is casting any shadow over there. Even if a planet is orbiting 10 stars from 10 different directions there will still be shadows. Speaking of shadows, where are the tones and tone shifts? These are one of the very basic things one needs to understand before creating any form of art, be it drawings or screenshots. Without understanding these one cannot make anything worth looking at.

[Tirloque]

I do appreciate your effort, Mr Otaku, but honestly this 27X guy :

- straight claimed he established rules for screenarchery

- compared himself to Raphael

- and wrote I've been personally hate-hunting him in several threads when I don't remember having ever seen him in the last year (if not at all).

 

He probably has a screw loose, and I'm just awaiting for him not to find the thread he mentioned to realize it himself.

 

------------

 

Anyway, this quarrel isn't really interesting, but to get back on track the comparison between screenarchery and art this discussion brought was.

 

 

Most artists didn't do pictures of themselves, and when they did it was more of auto-portraits than selfie likes paintings. Were their contemporaries accusing them of being lonely ? I don't think so, yet the time they spent doing their art was certainly time they didn't spend socializing. And so while, theiy weren't necessary lonely, their art sessions were indeed often a lone time. Are screenshooters really different ?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Tirloque said:

Most artists didn't do pictures of themselves, and when they did it was more of auto-portraits than selfie likes paintings. Were their contemporaries accusing them of being lonely ? I don't think so, yet the time they spent doing their art was certainly time they didn't spend socializing. And so while, theiy weren't necessary lonely, their art sessions were indeed often a lone time. Are screenshooters really different ?

Well art and screenshotting are not necessary require any other people then the one who makes.

 

And they do take time to being, obviously less in the screenshots case then painting or drawing an art, so they have more time for socializing ?

 

Hard focus the "lone" part, when you actually paying attention the very thing you make.

[Mr. Otaku]

24 minutes ago, Tirloque said:

I do appreciate your effort, Mr Otaku, but honestly this 27X guy :

- straight claimed he established rules for screenarchery

- compared himself to Raphael

- and wrote I've been personally hate-hunting him in several threads when I don't remember having ever seen him in the last year (if not at all).

 

He has probably a screw loose, and I'm just awaiting for him not to find the thread he mentioned to realize it himself.

 

------------

 

Anyway, this quarrel isn't really interesting, but to get back on track the comparison between screenarchery and art this discussion brought was.

 

<snip to save length>

 

Most artists didn't do pictures of themselves, and when they did it was more of auto-portraits than selfie likes paintings. Were their contemporaries accusing them of being lonely ? I don't think so, yet the time they spent doing their art was certainly time they didn't spend socializing. And so while, theiy weren't necessary lonely, their art sessions were indeed often a lone time. Are screenshooters really different ?

Lmao yeah. I mean, i still have nothing personally against him but i chuckled audibly when i saw him comparing his work to Raphael. I see this kind of argument being pulled all the time, whether it's on battle forums or manga/anime discussion boards, where someone gets all elitist and starts to reach a bit too much. I usually just debunk stuff calmly, but every now and then when someone goes off the ground too fast i just go "lmfao okay, enough of this".

 

But on topic, like i said before, loneliness is largely about perspective. One isn't necessarily lonely for spending lots of time doing something. See my first post on this thread on the first page to know why i think so.

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, Mr.Otaku said:

loneliness is largely about perspective

And ones "perspective" can change rather quickly with exposure or proximity to others who do rather than watch or imagine. While artists are exploring the limits of their imagination and creativity with one medium or another, other people are living- fucking, fighting, dancing, what have you. At what point should an artist feel lonely? When they stare around at the world and realize that some of life's opportunities have passed them by because they needed to be alone and undisturbed in order to create something?

 

Let me ask you what art is. Is art the celebration of life? Seeing so many pieces depicting famous battles and people leads me to think that it is. So, from that perspective, life is more important than art and inspires art. However, the reverse could be true as well- that art inspires life or a way of looking at life.

 

Eh......I'm fuckin' confused now, lol! But, I can't deny that sometimes- as an artist- that I feel like I should be doing more social things and spending less time alone with my "art"....and that my loneliness is apparent for all who view it. 

 

But, like I said before, not really loneliness for just fucking anybody. No. Loneliness for a certain kind of person- that I gave up on existing (or wanting me if they do) a long time ago. So, it's pain and regret and maybe a bit of envy for those that are either oblivious or that have their special someone. Those emotions- while negative- inspire my art.

 

So the conclusion I have is this: Yes, emotions such as loneliness can be reflected in a person's art. But, what kind of bland, meaningless shit would be made if every artist were completely satisfied/happy with their lives? It is the emotional pain that inspires the greatest yearning and perhaps the greatest art.

 

Picasso even said this about his Blue Period-  "I started painting in blue when I learned of Casagemas's death"- referring to his friend that committed suicide.

[Mr. Otaku]

24 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

And ones "perspective" can change rather quickly with exposure or proximity to others who do rather than watch or imagine. While artists are exploring the limits of their imagination and creativity with one medium or another, other people are living- fucking, fighting, dancing, what have you. At what point should an artist feel lonely? When they stare around at the world and realize that some of life's opportunities have passed them by because they needed to be alone and undisturbed in order to create something?

 

Let me ask you what art is. Is art the celebration of life? Seeing so many pieces depicting famous battles and people leads me to think that it is. So, from that perspective, life is more important than art and inspires art. However, the reverse could be true as well- that art inspires life or a way of looking at life.

 

Eh......I'm fuckin' confused now, lol! But, I can't deny that sometimes- as an artist- that I feel like I should be doing more social things and spending less time alone with my "art"....and that my loneliness is apparent for all who view it. 

 

But, like I said before, not really loneliness for just fucking anybody. No. Loneliness for a certain kind of person- that I gave up on existing (or wanting me if they do) a long time ago. So, it's pain and regret and maybe a bit of envy for those that are either oblivious or that have their special someone. Those emotions- while negative- inspire my art.

 

So the conclusion I have is this: Yes, emotions such as loneliness can be reflected in a person's art. But, what kind of bland, meaningless shit would be made if every artist were completely satisfied/happy with their lives? It is the emotional pain that inspires the greatest yearning and perhaps the greatest art.

 

Picasso even said this about his Blue Period-  "I started painting in blue when I learned of Casagemas's death"- referring to his friend that committed suicide.

That's why i said that it's largely about perspective. This has to do with a sense of purpose. What creates loneliness? It's the misery created from boredom. Whether people think you're lonely hardly matters, but it is part of that perspective. For example, if i'm spending far more time doing my own thing people might start thinking i'm lonely, and upon knowing what they think i might actually start feeling lonely. But if i'm sane i'll pull myself out of that thought and realise that i'm not lonely because others think i'm lonely. That'd be giving others too much power over my emotions.

 

Loneliness can inspire art, so can happiness, or aspiration. If you're busy making something and you're really not feeling like you would rather do something else, then that isn't loneliness. Occasionally you might look around and think you're missing out in life, but that's also your perspective. Would you rather fuck than create something, would rather drink and sing and dance than create something, would you rather live a life with the perfect partner and do chores and stuff and not create something, these are the questions, priorities you have to sort out and once you do, those will be your perspective. You may end up not feeling like you're missing out on these and other things, or you may drop your art to take them, those will be your perspective.

[KoolHndLuke]

34 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

That'd be giving others too much power over my emotions.

Nah, self reflection is needed at the expense of pride in order to gain a better understanding. Considering the source of someone's perspective is important....and if their perspective is not derived from prejudice, then it should be considered valid. Granted that an individual should guard against manipulation, but should also explore the implications and subsequent possibilities of a valid perspective. Ignorance (or denial) achieves nothing.

[Mr. Otaku]

11 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Nah, self reflection is needed at the expense of pride in order to gain a better understanding. Considering the source of someone's perspective is important....and if their perspective is not derived from prejudice, then it should be considered valid. Granted that an individual should guard against manipulation, but should also explore the implications and subsequent possibilities of a valid perspective. Ignorance achieves nothing.

Somewhat true, but this assumes that the word of people is 100% valid all the time. Observation is necessary, not filling your ears up by everyone and then having those alter your views, unknowingly sometimes. Doing this can be a big source of misery later on.

Observing what's happening is more important. Question yourself, question the logic behind your actions, sometimes people's thoughts can trigger that questioning, but never letting their thoughts overriding yours is a must.

 

It's not like being active in a social circle is a cure to ignorance either, there can be a group of 20 where each is just as ignorant if not more. This is why observation is necessary in forming perspectives, not gossips or "socialising".

[KoolHndLuke]

30 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

Observation is necessary, not filling your ears up by everyone and then having those alter your views, unknowingly sometimes. Doing this can be a big source of misery later on.

Not if you understand that knowledge does not equal knowing. It is the mistake of thinking you know something that leads to false judgement (or any judgement for that matter). Much better to be informed than to know. To believe you know something is to believe you have all the information you need- and that is delusion. For there is no way of knowing anything in a constantly changing universe. Hence the saying "Do not judge, lest thou be judged." 

 

“I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do.”- Socrates

[Mr. Otaku]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Not if you understand that knowledge does not equal knowing. It is the mistake of thinking you know something that leads to false judgement (or any judgement for that matter). Much better to be informed than to know. To believe you know something is to believe you have all the information you need- and that is delusion. For there is no way of knowing anything in a constantly changing universe. Hence the saying "Do not judge, lest thou be judged." 

 

“I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do.”- Socrates

And that is why i emphasised on "Observation". To know if what one knows is true or not one needs to observe the ever changing world. But when your perspective starts to depend on other's output your perspective starts to shift in a way that is neither informed nor stable. Judgement can be mislead, assumptions are only reflection of reflections, to know what is what, one needs to observe and consider many things. To know if one is really lonely, one needs to understand what constitutes to loneliness, and for this understanding, one needs observation.

 

Observations lead to perspectives. They always do.

[Yueviathan]

I just want to say thank you. I'm glad this thread exist, reading different and educational and healthy views on art. Self reflection and just honest critique..This helped me quite a bit as I'm sure it helped others. Much love to everyone in this thread ❤️ 

[Cema]

On 8/14/2019 at 11:37 PM, 27X said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens

 

roflmao.

 

 

 

It's kind of interesting.

 

You tried to replicate it but you missed what made this picture good : perspective

 

 

 

 

 

 

My take at making it better with a bit of photoshop. Still there is a limit to how much crap I can fix :

 

All the characters have the same size as before but here you get the feeling the second line of char is further and that the picture has depth

 

 

[terrorofmorrowind]

On 8/9/2019 at 6:33 PM, Weyland-Yutani Corp. said:

I personnaly dont post any pics of my characters or npcs and i dont post pics of me or my friends on any social network. I mean before the time of facebook and all those bullshits, the only important things were to just have fun with our friends only to have fun ! Not to have something to post on internet like "Hey ! Heeey !!!  Look at me, i have friends !"

 

Internet is a wonderful tools but for me social networks is only make people more and more away from what is real...

Amen, to that mate! In fact I do have a facebook account but it hasn't been updated since 2012 and I don't use twitter and those other ones either. Maybe I'll have to in the future when a job requires me to use it. But for now. No thanks.

 

I still like to talk to people in person rather than on the phone and do some stuff together. But not too much. It can get a bit tiresome.

[Mr. Otaku]

5 hours ago, Cema said:

 

OOF. Yeah that about sums it up. Good breakdown. Especially the convergence thing which plays a huge role in setting up the picture as a whole. Not something someone would actively look for all the time, but it plays an important part in creating a good perspective regardless.

[Guest]

I have an extreme degree of loneliness, to the point where I have difficulty to even talk and express myself on the internet. So, no instagram for me.

 

In fact, if someone would grasp even a small part of my condition, this person could get depressed.

 

For me, is a non-issue. I find most people annoying, so I shun them the most I can.

[Darkening Demise]

Being a loner loneliness doesn't exist. Just anxiety to get away from people when forced to leave the house.

Also with hatred towards humans (mostly whites since they were always the cruel ones to me) and nothing but love for animals (since they always loved me for me) its hard not to prefer being alone.

[KoolHndLuke]

I caught some pretty little thing looking twice at me awhile back. Things are good until I say something......My girls in my games don't give a shit what I say or make them do.