sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[Antiope_Apollonia]

22 minutes ago, Will55 said:

Sold slaves unless sold hookers, do not interact, do not do much at all but stand around wasting oxygen or follow their owner like a dog.

It'd certainly be nice if AYGAS were developed further, but that is an AYGAS issue, not a PAHE issue.  I'd love to see some more improved AI packages for slaves, but you're exaggerating a bit.  They do get punished, they work at crafting stations, and they sleep on the floor by their owners' beds—which is quite endearing.  Selling slaves to blacksmiths is probably the most immersive option right now.  It really depends on who you're selling to.  Especially in cities, a lot of them are going to be "companions" whose job basically is to follow their owners around like dogs.  It'd be nice if they utilised some of the little touches like "Let me massage your shoulders" that the PC's slaves do and other little things, but I'd consider that a relatively peripheral issue.  

 

I've got hundreds of hours with PAHE, and I've never once thought "there are too many slaves in Skyrim".  It seems like you just need to make more thoughtful choices about what you do with your slaves in future playthroughs.  

Edited December 22, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[Farsh-nuke]

26 minutes ago, Will55 said:

I can agree whole heartedly with your last line. It was NOT a demand, but a suggestion and I am fully aware of how hard both Clifton and Pfiffy are working on the mods.

I admit that I have no idea of how easy or not it would be to implement my suggestion and so I am guilty of that ignorance.

Certainly, I can change my playing style and in the past I have. But I could never play an evil char after what I have seen evil do in RL.

 

I was actually tempted to remove the mod (temporally) but I cannot as I have placed so much time/effort into this run.

the PAH mod IMO has been extremely well done and successfully effective,

But, this very fact has caused my problem.

Surely, I am not the only one who has noticed this?

Sold slaves unless sold hookers, do not interact, do not do much at all but stand around wasting oxygen or follow their owner like a dog.

I actually was shocked to see one rise out of her stupor and dance when my char played the lute. She became human again.

Tamriel would be a mercy even if it is nought but a dream.

 

 

If I made your comments seem harsher than they were meant by either of us than I apologise. I have come to consider you a friend and have heard of your issue with AYGAS for a while and was trying to lightly suggest ways to help even though I probably know less than you about modding. I am sorry if I was harsh or unfair.

I hope that you have now figured out a way to keep your current save running without recourse to straight up killing slaves in the streets of skyrim as I do understand your reticence. Heck I don't have your personal experience and I use a bunch of 'For the good guys' mods myself because even if it's a game and a bunch of ones and zeros that won't be active anyway the emotional impact on me is real. All the best

[Nonseen]

Quote

but this means... if i go crazy berzerk butcher mode and delete all of the effected esp from my version... i men if no call for script file in esp no script runing in back grund->>> so if the script generate the error->> error message go away.

at least i can do this.

 

Butchering complite, as the sucsess. (feels bad killing this future base by the way )

 

I checked the record i deleted and see no call in this scripts for slattraction. based on this looks like the spell effect script made the bug. 

Strange.

 

based on this comenting out this section will go work  

-1 bug probably

 

[Will55]

3 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

If I made your comments seem harsher than they were meant by either of us than I apologise. I have come to consider you a friend and have heard of your issue with AYGAS for a while and was trying to lightly suggest ways to help even though I probably know less than you about modding. I am sorry if I was harsh or unfair.

I hope that you have now figured out a way to keep your current save running without recourse to straight up killing slaves in the streets of skyrim as I do understand your reticence. Heck I don't have your personal experience and I use a bunch of 'For the good guys' mods myself because even if it's a game and a bunch of ones and zeros that won't be active anyway the emotional impact on me is real. All the best

My comment was not meant to be sarcastic nor criticize your accurate summary of my over-idealistic gameplay.

I guess that showing me that I am being rather stupid mildly annoyed, but I deserved it totally. So NPs at all.

If I cannot take constructive criticism from a friend then I am a poor human.

but, it was always only a matter of time before I stepped in one here and missing the fact that it was AYGAS was a rather large cowpat : )

[Will55]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I've got hundreds of hours with PAHE, and I've never once thought "there are too many slaves in Skyrim".  It seems like you just need to make more thoughtful choices about what you do with your slaves in future playthroughs.  

 

Near 2700 hours in SSE with  ~660 for this char. using PAH.

As a bard I spend a lot of time in inns and that amplifies the problem somewhat.

As does the fact that I run it as a real business.

I was not kidding when I said that the slave numbers were too high.

But that was due to the fact that I ruined HSH as in the beginning when I killed/enslaved all slavers (the irony there).

I have removed/reloaded it and am trying it again.

So I was stuck with AYGAS but without realizing how much I had stuffed up HYH

 

But WRT your point: does anyone know how many NPC are there in vanilla Skyrim?

I ask as I have sold now ~220 slaves and am not going near anywhere that is likely to supply me with more until I have this under control

as I have always been a sucker for a pretty face even in RL : (

 

[TrollAutokill]

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

Every time I try to do so, as soon as they are in position they stand up with the arms attached in the back, breaking the pose.

 

This is with PAHE alone, no HSH, no AYGAS, no DoM, but of course the problem is the same with or without the addons.

 

And it seems to happen because of the cuffs. When I comment the "EquipItem(cuffs)" line, they stay in position but without cuffs of course.

 

Among 3 slaves only one managed to stay put and it was because she failed to equip the cuffs. So this is really due to the cuff, maybe a zaz effect?

 

Is there a way to disable the cuff effect? EDIT: I will try zbfIsAnimating faction

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[Nonseen]

53 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

Every time I try to do so, as soon as they are in position they stand up with the arms attached in the back, breaking the pose.

 

This is with PAHE alone, no HSH, no AYGAS, no DoM, but of course the problem is the same with or without the addons.

 

And it seems to happen because of the cuffs. When I comment the "EquipItem(cuffs)" line, they stay in position but without cuffs of course.

 

Among 3 slaves only one managed to stay put and it was because she failed to equip the cuffs. So this is really due to the cuff, maybe a zaz effect?

 

Is there a way to disable the cuff effect?

 

i belied this is normal so i not counted as problem or bug.

 

in my expereince salves over time go to the floor.

if you push them something strong like a siheld bash that force them play a different animation then slaves go back to flor.

if i want them knee i push siheld or hit hard some wepons this work all the time. 

 

if you can script a push back effect or something similar that make abort the current idle animation that salve play, this make slave stay on his knees.

i dont know possible this put the end of cuffing action or close to after it. maybe animation cancel command?

[pinky6225]

56 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

Every time I try to do so, as soon as they are in position they stand up with the arms attached in the back, breaking the pose.

 

This is with PAHE alone, no HSH, no AYGAS, no DoM, but of course the problem is the same with or without the addons.

 

And it seems to happen because of the cuffs. When I comment the "EquipItem(cuffs)" line, they stay in position but without cuffs of course.

 

Among 3 slaves only one managed to stay put and it was because she failed to equip the cuffs. So this is really due to the cuff, maybe a zaz effect?

 

Is there a way to disable the cuff effect?

 

 

I've seen/had it although i assumed it was from them wearing extra items (in my case DD stuff) or another mod as the slave will get in position from the restrain --> only the hardest for you (iron cuffs) and then pop back up with the arms behind the back and then after a bit get back in the correct kneeling position with arms behind the back

 

Think i last saw it when i was training a batch of 10 slaves, by the time i'd gone round and tied the 10th the 1st one had got into the correct position and then they all popped down in sequence

[TrollAutokill]

27 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

 

I've seen/had it although i assumed it was from them wearing extra items (in my case DD stuff) or another mod as the slave will get in position from the restrain --> only the hardest for you (iron cuffs) and then pop back up with the arms behind the back and then after a bit get back in the correct kneeling position with arms behind the back

 

Think i last saw it when i was training a batch of 10 slaves, by the time i'd gone round and tied the 10th the 1st one had got into the correct position and then they all popped down in sequence

 

Yes it seems to be the normal Zaz zbfEffectWrist behavior. Adding/Removing the actor in zbfIsAnimating faction,  when entering/leaving tied state, stops this annoyance. I will put it in next DoM release (same for state restrained_in_furniture)

 

@CliftonJD what are your thought about this?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[Antiope_Apollonia]

3 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

Yes.  You can count me as another data point for exactly the behaviour you describe.  It started only recently for me, but with how quickly updates to PAHE and DoM have been coming recently, I've lost track of exactly when.  

[TrollAutokill]

51 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Yes.  You can count me as another data point for exactly the behaviour you describe.  It started only recently for me, but with how quickly updates to PAHE and DoM have been coming recently, I've lost track of exactly when.  

It should have disappeared if you use PAHE+DoM, report any weird behavior on the DoM page.

[pinky6225]

9 hours ago, Will55 said:

 Ahh So the actual AYGAS mod takes over totally instead of simply adding to PAH. I did not realize that as I thought that the PAH coding was still the basis to it. Now I understand. Thank you!

 

Yeah they come out of your PAH slave count so if you ever want to reduce/get that to zero dropping into HSH or AYGAS lets you do it, as a suggestion (dunno if it would work) you could try setting in the MCM the buy/sell rate to the max value

 

 

 

 

Of 50 so that the ones that are clogging up the inn sell there slaves more often which might help

 

I think its a bit random though whether they go into the AYGAS slave pool (for use at an auction) or whether they will appear on a new NPC

 

The other alternative would be to have them work for you either on the streets or in your player home brothel, think i have about 20 slaves doing that split over my home in Markath, Windhelm and then the Thieves guild base

Edited December 22, 2021 by pinky6225

[Will55]

20 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

 

 

I still use the older version so please note that I am NOT complaining just posting this as it may help someone, somewhere, sometime. 

If it continues like this i will think about it all.

 

Roughly  when I passed 300 slaves total, things began to go "funny" I had 3 slaves who simply could not be restrained by any simple means and it took Dwarven devious slave suits and enchaining/ hot leashing to raise their pose. I succeeded eventually. That was 2 weeks ago. I had ceased enslaving as there was no room.

 

The next two tried to ambush my char 1-2 RL days ago. I did the usual iron cuffs and rusted iron neck, ankles hands and tied them up using the "hard" line and left them in the LVM slave cellar. As they were new I decided to move them to another cellar. but they were missing on my MCM slave page and not in the doubly locked cellar. As I had their ref ids I move player'd them but no effect. WTH?? Where were they?

 

So I tried Rez, disable, enable, moveto and they both arrived naked but armed to the teeth, and said sponaneously how tired they were.

I gathered that they had escaped and perhaps been killed.

So I reloaded the save and tried player.moveto their ids and I never left the cellar as according to the game they were still there WTH???

I had a detect life ring  AND a detect dead necklace on and there were NO life signs or dead signs beyond the walls, only those live others within the cellar.

So this time, without thinking and only wearing a restoration robe and DB boots/gloves I rez'd them both again but together and the bitches damn near killed my char. I had the earphones on the desk as the phone rang and I never realized that they were hitting my char until I looked at his HPs and I finished up killing both of them with my daedric katana. This time there was no rez as I had , had them totally. While alive they ONLY had two conversation line replies to me and that was that they had tried to escape and should be punished . No other communication was possible. and as the game no longer saw them as slaves I should have expected it. I even tried to make them followers but there was still no slave conversation possible, as expected. That was earlier today

 

After that, I had 14 witch/hag corpses stashed away waiting for the space to rez/enslave them and as I now had the room I thought why Not? BAD IDEA!

I have rez'd/enslaved all 14. NOTHING worked in the LVM cellar at all to restrain them . They ran around the place like they had sat on a fire ant nest and no amount of whipping or spell bashing worked. I was close to wholesale murder as they were upsetting the regular well trained and happy occupants.

 

Instead, I decided to transfer them to the new extended hearthfire cellar at Heljarchen as it has a lockable cell, not that locks seem to mean anything now and I teleported all of them to it and locked the door. Dwarven pets suits, dwarven slave suits, iron bindings to hands, ankle neck, steel body chains,  do not work so I have no idea how I am going to increase pose. . Of the 14 about 6 are the hardcore Houdini ones but the rest are not far behind.

I will be very surprised if there are still 14 there when I next log in.

 

Ohh what fun!

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Will55

[Pfiffy]

@CliftonJD:

 

I'm still at setting up the Scenes. Have not added the Independent Hookers by now. Does it make sense to add the Honeybrew Meadery?

 

 

[Will55]

1 hour ago, Pfiffy said:

@CliftonJD:

 

I'm still at setting up the Scenes. Have not added the Independent Hookers by now. Does it make sense to add the Honeybrew Meadery?

 

 

 I never go near that place once the TG quest is finished. But the cutting room floor Frost River meadery might be a possibility.

Btw my college hooker is making a fortune for me and she only runs one tower.

[Farsh-nuke]

1 hour ago, Will55 said:

 I never go near that place once the TG quest is finished. But the cutting room floor Frost River meadery might be a possibility.

Btw my college hooker is making a fortune for me and she only runs one tower.

I think AYGAS adds its own hooker system so you might want to be sure whether she's an AYGAS or PFIFFY Hooker (feels inappropriate to say TDF given how much work Pfiffy is putting in on it)

[Farsh-nuke]

9 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

Every time I try to do so, as soon as they are in position they stand up with the arms attached in the back, breaking the pose.

 

This is with PAHE alone, no HSH, no AYGAS, no DoM, but of course the problem is the same with or without the addons.

 

And it seems to happen because of the cuffs. When I comment the "EquipItem(cuffs)" line, they stay in position but without cuffs of course.

 

Among 3 slaves only one managed to stay put and it was because she failed to equip the cuffs. So this is really due to the cuff, maybe a zaz effect?

 

Is there a way to disable the cuff effect? EDIT: I will try zbfIsAnimating faction

 

Yes. Only when tying up with rope once the slave has levelled up pose enough does it seem to work. And of course Display Model is fantastic though I don't think it does anything to level slave stats currently. 

[Farsh-nuke]

9 hours ago, Will55 said:

But WRT your point: does anyone know how many NPC are there in vanilla Skyrim?

 

 

2,201 people/NPCs according to this https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/npcs-creatures-killed

No wonder your game is running slow lol.

[Will55]

22 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I think AYGAS adds its own hooker system so you might want to be sure whether she's an AYGAS or PFIFFY Hooker (feels inappropriate to say TDF given how much work Pfiffy is putting in on it)

I never noticed that as I only just broke my heart and sold one of my 100sex hookers as the 2nd hooker necessary to become a pimp officially. I cracked up when I read that you need one to do 15 tricks to gain the next step as all of my 100sex slave hookers have hit >100 clients.

[Martok73]

5 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Does it make sense to add the Honeybrew Meadery?

Just my opinion, but no that doesn't make sense to me as it's not a place where hookers would ever be I would think. Just my opinion tho.

[Pfiffy]

7 hours ago, Will55 said:

 I never go near that place once the TG quest is finished. But the cutting room floor Frost River meadery might be a possibility.

Btw my college hooker is making a fortune for me and she only runs one tower.

Well, you can have 3 in the college, when I'm done. and you have 20 to place them where ever you want. For now the packages are made quite simple, but there are options for the future... I don't want to add further dependencies to the mod. There should be a reason to have the 20 additional Hookers. I'm already at 66 Hookers without them. Now the management will be a real task. 

[Will55]

Well PAH has now become umm very interesting if you like problems.

I started HSH and had to catch a "criminal" for the mine. NPs I had managed that before .

This time there were 3 bandits 2 male 1 female. So I want all 3 as slaves 2 for the mine while pretty would make a good hooker.

It took 4 attempts to get all three and one is alive and the other two in the "freezer" awaiting Rez.

That was the ONLY way I could get all 3.

AS soon as I enslaved one, told him to stay put or follow and moved onto the next one, and enslaved number 2.

1 stayed put like a good boy but as soon as I had 3 enslaved, I noticed that 2 had disappeared from the MCM and the game

as even her ref id was absent.

Rinse and repeat and it was always one who bolted/disappeared.

I was using all iron collar, cuffs anklets.

So when I accidentally killed the female (wrong bow) I thought NPs I just freeze her for later.

But then I noticed that 1 had bolted as well but was still on the MCM.

So back he come and off he goes.

While I am chasing him with a paralysis bow, 2 bolts as well.

I manage to finally "convince" both that following me was a good idea.

But as soon as I arrived via fast travel at the mine 2 bolted and and as soon as i teleported him back he was off again.

So I chased him and brought him back via the paralysis bow to find that 1 had done a bolt as well.

So I TP'd him back and the sod attacks me with an ebony mace.

So I killed him unwillingly and he is now in the freezer as well.

2 is sitting in the mine as i wait for the slack**** guard to wake up and up the questline.

 

The lunatic slaves from the post  above could NOT be restrained by ANY means.

However, I have them all with leashing collars and the room now crackles as they refuse to see that moving causes the problem.

I must have tied them all down with "hard' about 5-6 times.

The ones with dwarven slave suits slide around on their knees or walk.

I really have considered murdering them all by releasing them.

I currently have 96 slaves with only 20 in training.

I just wonder if PAH has a hidden cap.

 

I am not into SM and this is really a problem.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Will55

[CliftonJD]

On 12/22/2021 at 1:53 AM, Nonseen said:

but this means... if i go crazy berzerk butcher mode and delete all of the effected esp from my version... i men if no call for script file in esp no script runing in back grund->>> so if the script generate the error->> error message go away.

at least i can do this.

hopefully it won't come to that, still wishing my old hd didn't crash. 1 these days i need to dig up my old messages with those beta tests

On 12/22/2021 at 1:53 AM, Nonseen said:

other things:

1.

in my test i only use zaz items no dd installed. 

ya, it finally dawned on me that was why you were getting the none object keyword stacks, so i had to recheck my usual other methods to remind myself of what i did before that wasn't causing the keyword bug until now

On 12/22/2021 at 3:57 AM, Nonseen said:

based on this comenting out this section will go work  

On 12/22/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrollAutokill said:

Anyone else has a problem with tying up slaves? 

 

Every time I try to do so, as soon as they are in position they stand up with the arms attached in the back, breaking the pose.

 

This is with PAHE alone, no HSH, no AYGAS, no DoM, but of course the problem is the same with or without the addons.

 

And it seems to happen because of the cuffs. When I comment the "EquipItem(cuffs)" line, they stay in position but without cuffs of course.

 

Among 3 slaves only one managed to stay put and it was because she failed to equip the cuffs. So this is really due to the cuff, maybe a zaz effect?

 

Is there a way to disable the cuff effect? EDIT: I will try zbfIsAnimating faction

 

actually seen this at random as well, but it worked with less issues in the past and i hadn't had the time to look into what changed to effect this behavior. my only thoughts on it would be the changes from zaz 7 to 8.

On 12/22/2021 at 7:37 AM, pinky6225 said:

Think i last saw it when i was training a batch of 10 slaves, by the time i'd gone round and tied the 10th the 1st one had got into the correct position and then they all popped down in sequence

that's likely when the game runs 1 of the events, pahe has animation checks periodically thru the onupdate or update gametime events

On 12/22/2021 at 8:03 AM, TrollAutokill said:

 

Yes it seems to be the normal Zaz zbfEffectWrist behavior. Adding/Removing the actor in zbfIsAnimating faction,  when entering/leaving tied state, stops this annoyance. I will put it in next DoM release (same for state restrained_in_furniture)

 

@CliftonJD what are your thought about this?

ahh, that sounds good yes. lmk how it works out, can definitely get that worked into our next updates

23 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

@CliftonJD:

 

I'm still at setting up the Scenes. Have not added the Independent Hookers by now. Does it make sense to add the Honeybrew Meadery?

for now i would consider only the inns that have a bed to stay in and not the meaderies until all other features of the mod are complete. if you're still having any issues with the script properties you mentioned earlier, remind me which quests and scripts those were...was just about to dig that up to look over which those were

[Antiope_Apollonia]

6 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

actually seen this at random as well, but it worked with less issues in the past and i hadn't had the time to look into what changed to effect this behavior. my only thoughts on it would be the changes from zaz 7 to 8.

I don't think it can be Zaz 8.  I've only ever had 8, and I've noticed a change in this behaviour in recent updates.  Unfortunately, I can't pin down exactly when I started having issues.

[Farsh-nuke]

3 hours ago, Will55 said:

Well PAH has now become umm very interesting if you like problems.

I started HSH and had to catch a "criminal" for the mine. NPs I had managed that before .

This time there were 3 bandits 2 male 1 female. So I want all 3 as slaves 2 for the mine while pretty would make a good hooker.

It took 4 attempts to get all three and one is alive and the other two in the "freezer" awaiting Rez.

That was the ONLY way I could get all 3.

AS soon as I enslaved one, told him to stay put or follow and moved onto the next one, and enslaved number 2.

1 stayed put like a good boy but as soon as I had 3 enslaved, I noticed that 2 had disappeared from the MCM and the game

as even her ref id was absent.

Rinse and repeat and it was always one who bolted/disappeared.

I was using all iron collar, cuffs anklets.

So when I accidentally killed the female (wrong bow) I thought NPs I just freeze her for later.

But then I noticed that 1 had bolted as well but was still on the MCM.

So back he come and off he goes.

While I am chasing him with a paralysis bow, 2 bolts as well.

I manage to finally "convince" both that following me was a good idea.

But as soon as I arrived via fast travel at the mine 2 bolted and and as soon as i teleported him back he was off again.

So I chased him and brought him back via the paralysis bow to find that 1 had done a bolt as well.

So I TP'd him back and the sod attacks me with an ebony mace.

So I killed him unwillingly and he is now in the freezer as well.

2 is sitting in the mine as i wait for the slack**** guard to wake up and up the questline.

 

The lunatic slaves from the post  above could NOT be restrained by ANY means.

However, I have them all with leashing collars and the room now crackles as they refuse to see that moving causes the problem.

I must have tied them all down with "hard' about 5-6 times.

The ones with dwarven slave suits slide around on their knees or walk.

I really have considered murdering them all by releasing them.

I currently have 96 slaves with only 20 in training.

I just wonder if PAH has a hidden cap.

 

I am not into SM and this is really a problem.

 

 

Use home sweet home to get them trained I find once a task mistress is assigned to sort out training and it's a house cell then it doesn't matter what they are wearing.