Sexlab Survival

[Lupine00]

On the topic of making SLS give back a little of what it takes away ...

 

How about:

 

a) ways to get out of devices once you've left down that don't depend on DCL keys.

b) ways to actually make more than pocket change via Skooma Whoring...

 

 

For (a), yes, DF will fix some devices, but it can be unaffordable in many cases. You're better off paying a toll than taking devices, every time. Better off taking drugs. Better off taking a tattoo. The devices option is incredibly hazardous.

 

Maybe just change the devices option so you get a gambling game like the DF key game - certain options are selected at random, and you can pick one, or roll again, with an increased "price". In this case, the general number/severity of items increases each re-roll.

Spoiler

 

Guard: "What devices shall we put on you Cupcake?"

Cupcake: "Whatever you like sir" -> existing behaviour

Cupcake: "Can we play a game for it sir? Us girls love fun games." -> you get the game.

 

Guard offers you a choice:

1 - Collar and arm cuffs

2 - Ankle shackles and chastity bra

3 - Mystery item

4 - Nipple and clit piercings

5 - Chastity belt (open)

6 - Roll again

 

Picks [6]

Guard offers you a choice:

1 - Chastity belt (open) with shocker vaginal plug

2 - Slave boots and posture collar

3 - Pump plug and ring gag 

4 - Armbinder

5 - Mystery item

6 - Roll again

 

 

Or provide some way to get keys, or some NPC that will help with devices in return for something (quest, sex, more devices in future, debt).

 

Trading devices now for devices in the future seems good. Maybe there's a guy by the stables... Will remove your devices, but you have to agree to let him replace them in the future - plus more. And if you don't get back to him within the agreed time, he hunts you down, and next time you wake up you've got a full bondage set with double plugs in a timed belt that has no key - and all your cash is gone.

 

Ah, if only there was a version of SLUTS where doing a SLUTS run cleanly and purposely got rid of all your devices. For bonus convenience it could then let you do a run back to where you came from, if you succeed at the first run. SLUTS as an item remover seems fair, but not very DF friendly.

 

 

Spoiler

I spent a lot of time trying to solve (b) properly, but I'm not sure I'll ever finish that mod. I think it had some technical flaws in how I implemented whore dialog vs pimps vs dealers that make it very hard to maintain, and I never did get around to making new mesh artwork for all the drugs. Also, only made one skooma den, and that's not finished. The issue of putting them into cities without breaking four billion stupid city mods made me twitchy.

A patch to SW that:

• makes whoring more rewarding in cash terms
• makes whoring more interesting (some new dialogs, device integration, and possible bad patrons that kidnap you or whatever)
• makes whoring more accessible - currently takes half an hour just to get to most of the SW dens - needs a shortcut for most of them

Sounds like a Monoman kind of patch  

 

 

Or the reverse ... add Skooma to RP.

[Lupine00]

Completely new idea, totally random...

 

SLS smuggling...

 

NPC asks you to smuggle items into cities. You have to get in without being caught by guards and get to his dealer.

If you get caught with any of those items, even a license isn't enough - you'll be punished by losing it, amongst other things.

 

 

If you succeed, the smugger will remove a certain number of devices from you in the future - there's a small chance he may force you to drink skooma first, because, "You like it. I'm doing you a favour Sweetroll."

 

 

To make it more fun, the difficulty increases each time. At first, guards take longer to spot you, and a chance to ignore.

With repeated trips, the spot time is shorter, ignore chance lower.

 

Getting horribly punished resets difficulty. ("Stupid girl. I didn't believe even a woman would be idiot enough to try that again.")

[Lupine00]

Pickpocket feature:

 

Significantly increased chance NPCs will carry restraint keys of various kinds that you can pickpocket.

 

Do your stealing up-front though, because SLS makes it hard to rob people while chained (can do this on a fine-grained level in SLD now too).

[Lupine00]

On cloaks and detection...

 

If the effect script you run does nothing but add the target to a StorageUtil list, it has very little Papyrus load.

If you use LOS in the cloak, it reduces Papyrus load, if the conditions you're using are suitably narrow, you won't hit hundreds of actors.

 

In fact, no need for any of these mechanics though...

Simply no need. When you're dealing with a known set of NPCs and a known fixed target (the PC), you can shortcut all of that. You don't even need cell walks.

 

 

1) All the special detector guards are in an alias in your quest.

2) These guards are iterated over during normal update of SLS script, each one checks they are loaded, then checks distance to PC (very cheap to calculate), then if low enough, checks LOS. No cloaks, no cell walks, no big performance load. That is all. You could check every guard in the game like this, it would be fine as long as you didn't do it every second. Most will early out on the first check. As you can afford a bigger radius with this method, you can compensate a bit for delay between checks.

 

You can skip the whole thing if there are conditions on the PC that would invalidate it - like in a scene, or swimming.

[sshar22]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

The vanilla pick pocket bounty is so trivial you just pay it and move on, even as a starting character - so there was no need for this in the "Nexus Community".

 

Maybe what you want is Bondage Furniture World (Crime and Punishment)?

 

You get put in furniture and whipped senseless by vigilantes if you accidentally pick up a tankard.

 

If you're using Wounds, those nutters can practically kill you - certainly cripple you for weeks.

 

 

I use it, but turn down the percentage a lot, so you never quite know when vigilante justice may strike.

And of course, there's PoP. It is just prison, but ... it's not ... for small crimes you can be in and out inside a day, just a few hours being whipped or locked in a pillory and raped. Rape is almost the primary form of interaction in Skyrim it seems.

Can you explain how you manage BFW?

when I use it it always becomes a mess

It is not too bad when it triggers in interior cells

but when it triggers in exterior cells it takes forever

:

Top left message: vigiantes have found you (or some such)

teleport to stock

vigilantes walk (snail-pace) to your position (3 min of twiddling your thumbs)

and don't forget to open mcm and disable any other rape trigger mod because they will surely fire while you wait and you get a broken event

then they beat the living crap out of the char, rape and then steal (payment)

 

I found that some of this mod scenes are longer than scenes in slaverun

 

Did you modify something? or does the mod play somewhat different in you load order?

 

Cheers

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, sshar22 said:

Did you modify something? or does the mod play somewhat different in you load order?

I know what you mean, but it varies a lot.

 

I guess I don't configure SL Adventures so my character gets raped just for being naked, so that solves one problem you have.

I rely on HH and SLD for most rapes. If you're getting that kind of cross-mod interference, it may be a sign of a problem in the install, or just too many rape mods?

 

I haven't had the issue with long waits before start up either. Just didn't occur for me. Sometimes there is a bit of a delay.

I compare it to PoP, it's quick compared to that. Maybe just luck on my part, maybe you were just unlucky?

 

I have had scenes that went on a bit longer than expected, but it's alright if you aren't being caught for crimes frequently.

That's why I turn the chance down a bit. I think it's fine to use 50% or so, you there's a sense of uncertainty what will happen.

 

 

I think BFW needed a bit more work to realise its full potential, and has not had it, but it's more or less OK for me without any special tricks.

It really did need some kind of cost limit, so just accidentally picking up a tankard or a loaf of bread didn't result in massive beating - but I suspect the author's intent was all about punishing that sort of thing, and they found it funny to turn the entire urban world into a booby-trap.

 

Perhaps it also needs some kind of radius and LOS for potential vigilantes so you don't get the long walks you speak of?

 

It would also have benefited from more options on length of beating, length of sex scene etc. and maybe linked that more to severity of your crime, as it appears completely random.

[Reesewow]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Are there any mods that give you options other than jail or death after being caught picking pockets?

Wont lie - I'd love to see a pickpocketing tweak mod that caused your pickpocketing victim to confront the player with a forcegreet after a failed attempt and demand they "make it right" or be reported to the guards.  Pickpocketing's default bounty is quite low, but runs the risk of you killing multiple NPCs if you have followers (especially spellcasters) if the aggro you get goes wrong.

 

Honestly, simply hooking into something like the SLS begging options could be a fun result for failing pickpocketing.  No idea how easy it would be to intercept the event and do this however.

[Shion11]

i have started to look into changing a lot of the mods i have installed, but this is my current list of mods at this point in time.

Here is the other data you wanted to see.

[Monoman1]

35 minutes ago, Shion11 said:

i have started to look into changing a lot of the mods i have installed, but this is my current list of mods at this point in time.

Here is the other data you wanted to see.

Ok.

 

1. I don't mean to be an ass but try to use spoilers as it makes things hard to read with big pictures. 

2. It looks like something is overriding your DialogueFollower quest that isn't EFF. See you only have 2 aliases in your quest whereas EFF should have 3:

 

 

You need to load your complete load order in TesEdit and find out which mod is overriding it.

1. Open TesEdit. 

2. Select ok to load everything. 

3. In the FormId search box put '000750BA' without the quotes and hit return. This will bring you straight to the quest. Whatever is most to the right in that window is the 'winning override' and what will load in your game. So you need to decide what to do with that mod. Either:

 

A) disable it

B) move it above EFF in your load order which may stop the other mod from working.

 

Final note. You'll probably have to start a new game. Changing that quest mid game may break things. 

 

[Reesewow]

 

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I think BFW needed a bit more work to realise its full potential, and has not had it, but it's more or less OK for me without any special tricks.

Off topic for SLS - but out of curiosity does BFW (more technically ZAP 8.0) have the camera issues when in some furniture still, or did those get ironed out?  I think that was my biggest bugbear trying out the mod as a super early adopter, and I haven't had ZAP 8 in my load order in a very long time to try out the newer versions.

 

Not that I expect Hugh to work on it again anytime soon - he's got his plate full with the game he's developing with ZAZ.

[Hex Bolt]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Would it be worth adding a perk that would add a random amount of gold/valuables (rings etc) to Npcs when you pickpocket them maybe? Encourage your criminal side. I've often found pick pocketing useless as npcs seem to have nothing worth taking.

Yes!  Pickpocketing tends to be lackluster.  More small valuable items, and particularly Lupine00's suggestion to add a chance for keys, would be a welcome addition. 

 

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

The problem for me though is that crime is a bit binary in skyrim. "Death to the chicken killer!" Are there any mods that give you options other than jail or death after being caught picking pockets?

I'm using SL PayCrime and SL Solutions, one or both of which offer options to talk or sex your way out of being caught, though you were probably looking for more options for punishments.  It's true that the pickpocket bounty is quite low, but for me the real consequence is losing the other stolen items I'm carrying and haven't unloaded yet.  Yeah I shouldn't be taking risks then, but, but, there was 90% chance of success, and it was shiny!

 

On the binary response, and in the case of being caught later with stolen goods (not caught in the act), I'm using Better Stealing, a simple SKSE plugin that lets you set the item value threshold at which something can identified as stolen.  If I swipe something minor like an arrow or a tomato, the stolen flag is cleared.  How would a guard know that this arrow was paid for and this one wasn't?  Obviously this makes the game easier but it does encourage stealing.  The problem is that NPCs mostly carry junk so it's better to just swipe something from a counter when no one is looking than risk pickpocking another set of miner's clothes. 

 

11 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I'd love to see a pickpocketing tweak mod that caused your pickpocketing victim to confront the player with a forcegreet after a failed attempt and demand they "make it right" or be reported to the guards....  

Honestly, simply hooking into something like the SLS begging options could be a fun result for failing pickpocketing. 

Love this idea!  Besides the begging options, the NPC might demand that you hand over some of your money, or all your clothes (I think begging might have that one though), or one or more keys.  And increase the bounty for pickpocketing to make "other arrangements" more desirable.   To keep the outcome of failure less predictable, you should probably have a chance to talk your way out and go free, and a chance that the NPC just wants to turn you over to the guard without offering a deal.

[Lupine00]

34 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

12 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I'd love to see a pickpocketing tweak mod that caused your pickpocketing victim to confront the player with a forcegreet after a failed attempt and demand they "make it right" or be reported to the guards....  

Honestly, simply hooking into something like the SLS begging options could be a fun result for failing pickpocketing. 

Love this idea!  Besides the begging options, the NPC might demand that you hand over some of your money, or all your clothes (I think begging might have that one though), or one or more keys.  And increase the bounty for pickpocketing to make "other arrangements" more desirable.   To keep the outcome of failure less predictable, you should probably have a chance to talk your way out and go free, and a chance that the NPC just wants to turn you over to the guard without offering a deal.

If this could be done it would be awesome.

 

However, need to consider situations besides the norm. In SD+ you can pickpocket bandits, trolls, forsworn, etc... All kinds of enemies become non-hostile, and you can pickpocket them - and in many cases must pickpocket them if you want to satisfy your master's endless desire for presents.

 

In one case, my PC, starting with no pickpocket skill, stripped everything from the other bandits in the tiny cave complex she was trapped in with her master. In some cases this included unequipped weapons, such as bows. If caught, there was nothing the NPCs could do to punish her. All this gear was given to her master. He also could be pickpocketed. I raised skill from 1 to 36 in that single enslavement.

 

Exploit? Definitely... But SD+ made me do it  

 

I'm not saying you need to fix SD+, but it's a scenario you need to bear in mind.

[Reesewow]

58 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not saying you need to fix SD+, but it's a scenario you need to bear in mind.

Wouldn't it be better for SD+ to implement it's own version of something like this?  Especially if it is such a cornerstone of the mod's gameplay, and that gameplay is so far removed from any other scenario a player might find themselves in?

 

I'm not sure it would be worth it for a more generic mod to try to fit a crazy-pants scenario like that, since it bears so little resemblance to regular Skyrim gameplay (or even typical adult modded Skyrim gameplay).  I worry that for a mod to fit well in a scenario like that and other crazier scenarios it would need to be fairly generic, or excessively complex.

 

Personally I'd rather a mod feature try to be interesting and fun in its intended gameplay space, and hope that spills over into cool unintended mod interactions when other mods take the player out of that space.  In the cases where it just doesn't fit or causes actual issues, temporarily disabling it IMO may be more viable than going crazy with conditionals or soft dependencies, just so a troll that normally cannot be pickpocketed doesn't threaten to report you to the non-existent cave guards. 

 

I find I have to do that sometimes with Devious Followers, because I tend to play through large quest and new worlds mods that are a focused experience where it just isn't viable to try to shoehorn DF into a gameplay space with no money or follower pathing.  Other times however a mod will give me a story follower, that will become a Devious Follower naturally, and suddenly the mod has a tone the original author very likely did NOT intend, and it is great.

 

 

Of course we're totally just chucking out mod ideas to see what sticks here - I don't recall Monoman1 actually saying he had any intention of making a pickpocket mod, rather suggestions on ones that already existed. 

[Abelyo]

Having a problem with this mod. Recently installed it and started a fresh new game to try out the features, and I realized that it disables the map screen.

At first it wasnt a problem cuz theres a option on the MCM to enable the map again, so I did and was able to open the map screen once.

I then left Windhelm(interior) and after traveling outside a while I tried to open the map again and my game instantly crashed.

Loaded game, tried opening map again, crashed again. I dont have any other map related mod so it cant be anything else.

Is that a issue that happens after turning off map related options?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Wouldn't it be better for SD+ to implement it's own version of something like this?  Especially if it is such a cornerstone of the mod's gameplay, and that gameplay is so far removed from any other scenario a player might find themselves in?

I wasn't suggesting that SLS handle this case, but it needs to be careful not to accidentally try and handle it.

 

Basically, if your victim isn't in one of the well known (hold) crime factions, then don't give them SLS handling.

 

Otherwise SLS would try and apply its logic to these scenarios, and have a bandit demanding a naked slave hand over her clothes, or try and set a bounty on her.

Though perhaps this raises the problem ill-handled in SL Adventures ... what to do about crimes committed by slaves...

 

 

I think the ideal would be that crimes by slaves would require the master to pay the bounty (and punish the slave), because his property, just like an escaped animal, is creating trouble. A DF would logically add this cost to your enslavement buyout cost. An SD+ master can do something similar. However, the crime handling needs to be "slave aware". Presumably, both SD+ and DF can be tipped into locking pickpocket slaves in an armbinder or mittens, both mods have functionality for that built-in. (DF adds mittens by default, so as long as they block pickpocketing, that's already dealt with).

 

 

As for whether SD+ is a "crazy-pants" scenario, that's up for debate, but SLS should certainly stay well away from it.

You could raise you concerns about SD+ with DeepBlueFrog, but suggesting how SD+ should proceed here is not likely to be heard.

SD+ is far from the only mod that changes who is hostile to the PC and notably DiD does something similar.

From that simple change, broken crime handling follows, because those NPCs aren't in functioning crime factions.

 

Also, dialog on creatures typically fails to trigger, so if code relies on that happening, it will break.

I believe SLS has issues with this already if you interact with creatures.

 

Any dialog added to NPCs in general needs to check it doesn't fire on creatures.

[Reesewow]

10 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I wasn't suggesting that SLS handle this case, but it needs to be careful not to accidentally try and handle it.

 

Basically, if your victim isn't in one of the well known (hold) crime factions, then don't give them SLS handling.

 

Otherwise SLS would try and apply its logic to these scenarios, and have a bandit demanding a naked slave hand over her clothes, or try and set a bounty on her.

I think this is where you and I disagree on preference and is essentially this is what I meant by a feature becoming complicated to try to fit scenarios it wasn't designed for, as opposed to leaving it to the player to decide if the functionality fits or not with the power to toggle it on or off.  

 

 

By restricting the function to only work on well known vanilla crime factions, you'd block some scenarios where it may not fit well like being friendly to bandits, but you'd also block it from functioning in many scenarios where it could actually be really cool, like adventuring in Beyond Skyrim Bruma or Falskaar that have actual cities with citizens to pickpocket, sometimes with their own crime factions.  Creatures of course should be conditioned out, but that's pretty standard to avoid the dreaded chicken/dog/cow forcegreet.

 

If I was in an scenario like you described with SD+ bandits and had the choice of vanilla functionality with no bounty, or modded functionality with a few outcomes that don't fit, my choice would be the modded interactions as a matter of personal preference.

 

Of course in a perfect world where a mod author is extremely detail oriented and with a lot of time, they could tailor a feature in such a way as to ensure it works in most any scenario where it should, and never when it doesn't exactly fit (or include an extensive MCM menu that lets players make that choice).  Even better have content that caters to those non-standard scenarios like creature or bandit/necromancer/forsworn specific dialogues and outcomes.

 

Barring that large investment of time however, I think I'd rather a feature be generally broad - but I do understand that some players despise ever touching an MCM menu to toggle a feature on the fly.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

I think this is where you and I disagree on preference and is essentially this is what I meant by a feature becoming complicated to try to fit scenarios it wasn't designed for, as opposed to leaving it to the player to decide if the functionality fits or not with the power to toggle it on or off.  

Well you're probably wrong then!  

 

Seriously.

 

First off, you decided to label legitimate required checks of applicability "complicated", when the feature is complicated in many ways, but we shouldn't consider behaving correctly a complication. That's a loaded word you used to try and make it look easier to deliver a broken behaviour that you want.

 

But possibly, the whole cavil is over whether it should be something the user does manually, or whether some known broken cases should be excluded.

 

 

I would be just as satisfied with a blacklist instead of a whitelist, but the whitelist is always going to be safer. Let the player add factions to it, it's still player toggle-able.

 

I don't really object to the player having to enable it, but once enabled, if the enable is global, in some situations it may do something nasty before they realise they need to turn it off. 

 

 

In any case, making the list of supported factions extensible, or already include the Bruma and Falskaar ones, would not be rocket science. However, I'm beginning to suspect that faction restriction is probably not going to cut it, and there's some chance of running afoul of all kinds of popular quest and NPC mods. Of course, lots of mods do run afoul like this, and sometimes it doesn't matter, and sometimes they simply get kicked from load orders because they break things people like to have working.

 

 

What we need for better, more immersive games, is more handling of interactions with other mods, and less ignoring them as if they don't exist. If SLS were more aware or SL Adventures, or vice versa, how great would it be? If SLS understood your SD+ or DF slavery status properly (and it knows things about DF already) how neat would that be? Those aren't big complicated things, but they would be nice touches.

 

Imagine how cool if your master (SD+, DF, DCL, or Slaverun) hauls you into town, and the gate guards don't talk to you at all (instead there's a scene with your master), because you can't give a license to property, and if you think it is "unescorted" it's probably running away and needs to be handed back to its owner.

 

Or if SL Adventures crimes were understood by SLS, and SL Adventures understood SLS licenses?

 

There are so many cases. People don't ask for them because they know they are "impossible", but they aren't impossible. Monoman has done quite a few things to interoperate well with other mods. A lot of his tweaks are almost completely that.

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, Abelyo said:

Having a problem with this mod. Recently installed it and started a fresh new game to try out the features, and I realized that it disables the map screen.

At first it wasnt a problem cuz theres a option on the MCM to enable the map again, so I did and was able to open the map screen once.

I then left Windhelm(interior) and after traveling outside a while I tried to open the map again and my game instantly crashed.

Loaded game, tried opening map again, crashed again. I dont have any other map related mod so it cant be anything else.

Is that a issue that happens after turning off map related options?

I don't see how that would happen. If disabled then I'm pretty sure the controlling quest is shutdown entirely meaning nothing is fired. If anything it would crash when enabled. And I'm certain I tested with the option disabled. If you enable the option again and do in console:

Help "map & compass"

Player.Additem xxxxxxxx 1

 

Does it still crash when opening the map? 

 

If you disable survival esp does it still crash?

 

‐---------------------

Regarding creature dialogue. What exactly is the problems you guys are referring to? I can't remember any issue that wasnt my own stupidity - not shutting down a force greet in certain circumstances or dialogue conditions. 

 

Regarding pickpocketing. I've got a working extra loot perk going. I'm a bit worried about item distribution mathematically. I'd like there to be a small chance to find a good bit of loot but also nothing at all. I'm also worried that currently you cant set the chances of which category of item will appear. Maybe someone that's better at math will have better ideas. I'll edit this post and post the code snippet in a bit. Remember that the code kind of needs to fire quickly as it applies when opening the container. 

 

Regarding being confronted for failed pickpockets. I think I have something that at least correctly detects it in normal scenarios and calms the npcs from becoming physocotic. A major part of the detection is the npc becoming hostile so I'm curious what happens when failing to pickpocket bandits/creatures in SD? Do they become hostile? 

 

There are issues with DCLs prison FG though. Not sure how to stop it from happening for a 25 gold bounty... You can just turn that off though. 

 

Beth actually have an event for failed pickpockets but of course it triggers well after the event actually happens... super useful! *sigh*

 

Unfortunately a side effect of calming the npc is that they are immediately pick pocketable again rather than being blocked but I might be able to sort of fix that. 

[Lupine00]

23 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I'm curious what happens when failing to pickpocket bandits/creatures in SD? Do they become hostile? 

They are not in an enemy faction. There believe there is also something in SD+ that kicks in, so when they get mad at you, you take a hit or two, and then they are calmed by SD+ and your master gets mad at you instead. SD+ changes so dramatically from release to release, I'm not sure what is happening in this new version, even though I'm using it! Due to various events, I haven't been enslaved to anything other than wolves, and I didn't try to pick pocket them because the pickpocket debuffs I have set up in SLD are too punitive to make it worth trying.

 

With excessive exposure to Sanguine, you can end up sharing a faction with just about everyone and everything, and nothing in the game is hostile any longer.

I believe that this is by design, more or less.

 

I often use SUM to remove myself from such factions when it become boring.

 

I'll give this a try now, as Microsoft have ruined my C++ dev environment with a Visual Studio update, thanks MS!

[Monoman1]

15 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

There believe there is also something in SD+ that kicks in, so when they get mad at you, you take a hit or two, and then they are calmed by SD+

Ok so they still get hostile though? Which would mean my detection would still works I think... must just test it out. 

 

So here is the code snippet which runs when you pickpocket an npc that doesn't have an invisible inventory token - which stops loot being added over and over (which was kind of cool to watch actually )

Function AddIncPickPocketLoot(ObjectReference akTargetRef)
	Actor akTarget = akTargetRef as Actor
	If akTarget
		akTarget.AddItem(_SLS_IncPickPocketLootToken, 1)
		If !akTarget.IsInFaction(Init.SbcFaction) && !akTarget.IsInFaction(Init.ZazSlaveFaction)
			
			; Gold
			If PpLootGoldChance >= Utility.RandomFloat(0.0, 100.0)
				akTarget.AddItem(Gold001, Utility.RandomInt(0, PpLootGoldMax))
			EndIf
			
			; Loot
			Int i = Utility.RandomInt(0, PpLootLootMax)
			Formlist FlSelect
			While i > 0
				If PpLootLootChance >= Utility.RandomFloat(0.0, 100.0)
					FlSelect = _SLS_IncPickPocketLootAll.GetAt(Utility.RandomInt(0, _SLS_IncPickPocketLootAll.GetSize() - 1)) as Formlist
					akTarget.AddItem(FlSelect.GetAt(Utility.RandomInt(0, FlSelect.GetSize() - 1)), 1)
				EndIf
				i -= 1
			EndWhile
		EndIf
	EndIf
EndFunction

_SLS_PickPockectLootAll is a kind of directory containing more formlists. Each sub formlist is a category. One for gems, one for food, jewelry, keys, spell tomes, enchanted jewelry. 

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Regarding creature dialogue. What exactly is the problems you guys are referring to? I can't remember any issue that wasnt my own stupidity - not shutting down a force greet in certain circumstances or dialogue conditions. 

Haven't run into any creature dialogue problems myself yet - I think some people were having issues earlier with certain creatures not responding properly to invite commands, but that sounded like a creature voice or custom race issue.

 

Quote

Regarding being confronted for failed pickpockets. I think I have something that at least correctly detects it in normal scenarios and calms the npcs from becoming physocotic.

That would be a big help - I've definitely reloaded more than a few saves while hunting for DCUL key spawns via pickpocketing - not because I was caught and triggered a bounty, but because a follower or friendly nearby NPCs went full Rambo over a gold ring and killed off half an inn's populace with AOE spells.

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

_SLS_PickPockectLootAll is a kind of directory containing more formlists. Each sub formlist is a category. One for gems, one for food, jewelry, keys, spell tomes, enchanted jewelry. 

Should definitely make the loot tables more interesting and worth watching for.

 

If you wanted a chance for no loot and great loot, perhaps you could have an additional % roll for any loot at all (critical failure, altho in this case it would just mean vanilla loot) and a "jackpot" roll that pulls from a formlist of only high end items, like black soulgems and the more expensive gems/jewelry.  Also, might be worth filtering for the begger faction.

[Lupine00]

Using a faction to indicate who has had loot added will be slightly lighter weight, and allows you (or others) to exclude candidates using CK conditions (in dialog, in cloaks, etc) if it's appropriate.

 

You can always throw people out of the faction OnLoad, or at random periodically - but to do that you need to track them in another list...

Such as a StorageUtil list...

 

If you don't have any use for CK checks, then you can forget the faction handling.

 

 

Either way, using a StorageUtil list instead of the inventory item, it will be much, much more efficient than a token.

You can check list membership with a single call, and make a list act like a set by setting the no duplicates flag on addition.

Bonus, anyone, any mod at all can inspect that list and interoperate with you, with zero dependencies.

 

It may be hammer and nail cliche, but StorageUtil is nearly always the best answer if you can use it.

 

 

The first add of a new item to inventory is fairly costly, and can fire a lot of event handlers. Inventory tokens are less than ideal.

 

If you use a levelled list to generate the loot, you can save some Papyrus logic and it will happen natively instead.

Loot selection functionality is quite featureful in vanilla Skyrim, so if you can go that route it is most efficient at execution time - and users already know how to edit the lists.

 

Scripts give you more control, but you're not leveraging that yet. A levelled list would offer you more control than the current implementation. I guess you may change that later.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Using a faction to indicate who has had loot added will be slightly lighter weight, and allows you (or others) to exclude candidates using CK conditions (in dialog, in cloaks, etc) if it's appropriate.

I thought of factions but thought maybe if the character inventory is reset then the token is also removed and so the loot can be added again naturally. 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Either way, using a StorageUtil list instead of the inventory item, it will be much, much more efficient than a token.

Really? I would have assumed it'd be far more costly, especially as the list grows. Right now I'm running a check via built in condition GetItemCount on the perk itself. Count > 0 then do nothing (no papyrus action). There's no built in way of checking a storageutil list as you know. It'd have to go out to papyrus. True about dependencies though. 

But we're splitting hairs I think. The player isn't going to overburden the system picking pockets with either method no matter how fast they are. 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

The first add of a new item to inventory is fairly costly, and can fire a lot of event handlers. Inventory tokens are less than ideal.

On the player sure, but not on a npc I would have thought? I could be wrong. 

 

Good thinking on the leveled lists. I'll look at that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

That would be a big help - I've definitely reloaded more than a few saves while hunting for DCUL key spawns via pickpocketing - not because I was caught and triggered a bounty, but because a follower or friendly nearby NPCs went full Rambo over a gold ring and killed off half an inn's populace with AOE spells

Yes I've seen what you mean, sweet rolls and forks flying everywhere. What I have seems to work. Definitely stops them attacking you. The problem seems to be other npcs attacking the npc you stole from. But that seems to MOSTLY work with what I have. Things did go nuts once or twice but I can't reproduce it reliably. It's still an improvement on the way it is. Now all I need are consequences for your deeds

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Also, might be worth filtering for the begger faction.

Yup beggars are already filtered at the perk level (anyone in FavorJobsBeggarFaction is excluded)

[Lupine00]

Tried latest SD+ and they don't aggro at all.

You just get a message "You have been caught picking pockets".

 

There is essentially no downside unless it's your master.

If you pickpocket your master and fail (and it is quite hard to fail, unless trying to steal your key), then after that attempts to pickpocket him result in a message.

"You have already been caught pickpocketing <NPC original name>"

 

Clearly, SD+ is catching it but the punitive actions aren't implemented for anyone but your master.

Or there may be a bug. Probably the intent was to block anyone you failed on.

 

SD+ source would be the best answer in this case. There are limits to my curiosity though  I'd rather fix my busted VS2017 install.

 

I do have SD Patch in there too. I don't think that changes picking pockets behaviour though.

[Lupine00]

59 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Really? I would have assumed it'd be far more costly, especially as the list grows.

No. The cost of marshalling to and from native is overwhelming compared to a piddling few hundred iterations over a list.

Actually the list data unpack operation is as expensive as searching it, and though order N, it's a tiny increment, unlike Papyrus, where one extra instruction is hundreds or thousands of native operations.

 

OTOH, adding items to inventory binds into event checks, all kinds of notifications. Even if nothing fires, the cost will outweight unpacking a tiny array with a few dozen members (a few hundred in extreme cases perhaps, if you don't clean it often enough).

 

My guess is that it's a deferred action like all that kind of operation, and so it's not even totally reliable as a semaphore, except it will certainly get your script descheduled, which blows out your execution time by orders.

 

I can't check any details right now, as MS has now decided I have VS features installed I don't, and won't let me repair them until ... after I've repaired them! Amazing work MS.