Sexlab Survival

[Monoman1]

4 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said:

the burned body in helga that has the note to star the quest to go to the cave , unable to mine the iron nodes in the dungeon by riverwood

 

I presume you're not wearing an armbinder/yoke?

Maybe try enableplayercontrols in the console. 

[pjpike]

Was wondering if you had any suggestions. Just started a new run with this mod. Having an issue that the licence guy in Whiterun isn't spawning at all... I thought it might do with mods that effected whiterun/bannered mare, but using just SLS, the things it has hard requirements on, and live another life and he's still not there.

[Monoman1]

9 minutes ago, pjpike said:

Was wondering if you had any suggestions. Just started a new run with this mod. Having an issue that the licence guy in Whiterun isn't spawning at all... I thought it might do with mods that effected whiterun/bannered mare, but using just SLS, the things it has hard requirements on, and live another life and he's still not there.

Are you sure you're checking the right place? He's not inside the bannered mare. He's inside the barracks that's behind the bannered mare. 

[pjpike]

25 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Are you sure you're checking the right place? He's not inside the bannered mare. He's inside the barracks that's behind the bannered mare. 

I uh... Didn't know that door was even there. Played skyrim I dunno how many full runs, amazing.

He's there. Thank you haha.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I think people are a little unfair on slaverun.

I guess you can use Slaverun as a possible penalty scenario, but it's a bit much for that.

It loads a lot of data, scripts and NPCs into towns; it's a lot of load to bear just to make PCs be naked.

 

I think that if you just want that, SL Adventures can do it with a lot less trouble. It will happily enforce PC nakedness as a law.

SL Adventures does a lot of other things, and though there's some overlap with SLS licenses now, I think the per-hold mechanics, the rape system, and so on work well with SLS.

The only problem is that you can't connect them together so that SL Adventures applies its weapons law if you don't have a license, and doesn't if you have one, and so on.

Spoiler

 

I think it might be possible to make that happen though, but it would be painful for Monoman, as he'd need to replicate code from the SL Adventures MCM, which works per-hold. The configuration data may be stored directly in StorageUtil instead of accessed through Functions and Properties. I'm not completely sure.

(For those that care, SLD configures through StorageUtil, though there are a few housekeeping and informational functions. I will get rid of those too, one day).

 

 

Also, while you can use Slaverun as an SS destination, I don't think there's any way to escape Slaverun slavery.

Once they've got you, you're on the Slaverun railroad, and that's it. It naively assumes it's the only slavery mechanism in your game.

 

I think it's possible to get out of slavery in the 3.X beta, but I haven't played it since the alpha, and that was super-buggy.

It seems like there are still a lot of issues with the beta, even if you patch it up a fair bit. I wish somebody would write a guide to avoiding problems with it. Or does one exist?

 

Another thing with using Slaverun as a penalty scenario, is that it doesn't co-exist well with other slavery mods.
Some ability to track "who" is your master, know if you are in SD+ or  some other slavery, or even just to let the PC manually flag that they're enslaved to a particular master in the MCM, would have hugely improved its interoperation. Then, some dialogs from Slaverun could appear on your SD+/DF/DCL master, and all the stuff with the slaver bosses could be shut off - so they simply ignore the chatterings of slaves they do not own and do not try to send you on tasks - which seems reasonable.

 

There could be some mechanic to get other masters to trade you into Slaverrun, added to your current master, but actually part of Slaverun. So you could get yourself sold back to the slavers. I wish we knew whether Kenjoka is ever coming back...

 

 

 

 

Back on point...

 

I'm not sure people are unfair to Slaverun as such: it's not like they're saying mean things about it.

 

But I do feel it would be overkill to use it just to enforce nakedness.

 

 

Regarding Hydra's Slave Girls - it originally came with some bugs, which have been incrementally patched - how solid is the one you're offering at the moment?

Are you fairly sure it's safe, or does it seem to cause a bit of additional instability?

 

With that mod, it's the unused locations that bug me. If that's the word. I wish the milk factory were ... finished somehow ... and that weird place full of hundreds of crazy women ... I've never seen so many NPCs in one place, even with Vengeful Wenches going chain-summon crazy. I wish Ed would migrate that milk factory into MME or, or that somebody would do something to tie it into MME. I like the dream of doing it myself, but I'm realistic about it. I'll never have time.

 

 

I guess that SLS has some stuff that's aimed at working with Slaverun that I don't see the benefit of, because I don't use it. Maybe @mangalo has a point, and SLS should be pared back down to a non-intrusive mod that handles some aspects of interoperation with needs mods and Frostfall?

 

All the fun tolls and license stuff could easily be its own mod, like STA has become. I'm not sure to what extend "Map + Compass" is tied into something like licenses. Not at all, apart from a shared MCM, I suspect. 

 

Such a split would allow all the Slaverun stuff to stay with the license mechanics, and be totally apart from all the stuff for warmth, cum swallowing, etc.

 

I guess if this had been done like the other "Tweaks" it would be patch for Frostfall, a patch for iNeed, a patch for RND, a Navigation patch, etc, all separate. It's probably easier with fewer mods.

 

 

I'm really tempted to go back and revisit Slaverun now though  

[Lupine00]

Just a random bikini pick, because bikinis!

 

[Guest]

when i try to go into the whiterun bathhouse from this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/92203 it thinks i'm skipping town/dodging the toll?

[Lupine00]

54 minutes ago, letterman said:

when i try to go into the whiterun bathhouse from this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/92203 it thinks i'm skipping town/dodging the toll?

This was discussed a couple of pages back.

 

I don't think there's a way around it ATM, but one is planned?

 

 

I believe it's because when you aren't in a cell that SLS considers to be "in" the town, after a short while, it concludes you have skipped.

 

 

I'm not sure why this is necessary at all.

There's a lot of busywork involved in determining what cells are in what town, and unlimited problems from mods that add new places.

Some sort of scheme that allows you to whitelist locations has been proposed to work around the latter issue.

 

I suspect that a lot of it comes down to Monoman wanting to support fast travel, which (personally) I think is a lost cause.

Fast travel undermines the toll mechanic. Any player can see that, so why struggle so hard to make sense of it?

If you fast travel out of toll cities, it's obvious you're cheating. You know you're doing it. Why did you install SLS if you're going to do that?

Trying to stop players who are that determined to cheat themselves, using a totally "out of game" mechanic, is futile.

 

 

Personally, I think there's a simpler solution, which requires no cell-location listing busy-work, but it does require a different kind of effort...

 

 

Guards outside the gate (and possibly in other exterior locations) are given forcegreets. If there are currently no guards, add some.

One forcegreet triggers only if you are flagged as "inside and owing toll".

It has a post-script where you get punished and ported to a marker inside the town.

 

A forcegreet pre-script always sets a flag saying you were seen outside.

 

When you pay the toll, your "inside and owing toll" flag is cleared and instead you get an "leaving" flag.

If external guards see you with "leaving" flag, they know you're allows to leave and flag you as "left publicly".

 

If you enter normally, with the outside flag set, and are seen by the inner gate guards, the "inside and owing toll" flag is set.

Be seen inside without the seen outside flag, or inside and owing toll set, and you're in trouble.

 

So, by design, it's possible to skip town, be missing for ages, then reappear, inside, and they guards will just assume you spent the last six days on your back in the Bannered Mare or something. They do not magically infer you skipped town and snuck back in. Maybe they can harass you about that and try and bully you into a confession, but they have no way to know for sure.

 

However, if you stupidly enter via the gate, the full force of the law descends on you, because you don't have a "left publicly" flag set.

 

This means that sneaky players aren't punished by magic psychic guards, who somehow manage to interrogate half the town to figure out whether you secretly left or not. Instead, everything works immersively. 

 

I didn't explain the flag logic very well above, so here's the "truth table"

 

Leave town in secret, come back in secret, no penalties.

Leave town publicly, come back in secret, seen by interior guards => punished

Leave town publicly, come back publicly, no penalties.

Leave town in secret, come back publicly, seen by exterior guards => punished

 

This also allows the leaving logic to work cleanly.

To leave properly you need to trigger the toll box, then be seen by the exterior guards.

 

If you trigger the toll box, but are never seen by the exterior guards, you paid but didn't leave. In that case after a few hours you forfeit your toll, and it resets to you being inside.

 

It is pretty much up to the player to make sure that those guards see them leaving ... maybe you should check in with them to be certain?

This gives more chances for the guards to harass you.

 

Entry logic is the reverse, if seen by exterior guard but no recent toll payment, we know from whether you "entered" last, if you are in trouble or not.

 

I'm pretty sure that Monoman thought of this at some point, and then decided it was too much bother, but now he's got so much bother with locations, I believe this would be easier, and work better. It would also work seamlessly with wandering inspectors, guards in Riverwood, or whatever else, because it's not based on Sherlock Holmes guards who see all and know all.

 

And of course there's the starting condition, where the guards know nothing until they first see you.

There's a bit more to the whole thing than this of course, as you need to make sure that situations where you leave and immediately come back work properly, vs situations where you leave, and then hang about like a bad smell for ages, then really leave. If each hold's guards flag individually, it should be fine.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lupine00 said:

This was discussed a couple of pages back.

 

I don't think there's a way around it ATM, but one is planned?

oh, ok, cool, thanks for the heads up

[Monoman1]

Slaverun:

PC + npc nakedness. Don't think SLA  does npcs?

And I've always found slaverun less controlling than say SD. Which can be both a positive and a negative. It usually just sets a quest and you can choose to do it or not. "You will go bring slavery to river wood or we'll beat and rape you... But whenever you feel like doing it is ok. You know, soonish we'd prefer. I mean if you're not doing something else."

 

Slavegirls:

My tweak just removes the mcm as it doesn't do anything and I was running out of mcm slots. I've never seen much in the line of bugs with it but i do know the places you're referring to. They are bananas. I got completely lost in that temple place once and those crazy women wouldn't stop coming lol. But i mean you can just ignore these places and enjoy having slaves running around with their little bits of dialogue which works well with slaverun but also gives the Male npcs slaves to duck instead of potentially you (they prefer zazslave faction members). 

 

As for adding cells to the toll zone. I would like to allow anyone to add cells but there are complications as I said before. 

1. Cells can have location set as none, which flat out wont work

2. Cells can share the same location in different holds

 

Both of which can be checked for when adding but I don't know how useful it would be in the end. Depends on how many town mods need it and implement a good location scheme. 

[Lupine00]

1 minute ago, Monoman1 said:

As for adding cells to the toll zone. I would like to allow anyone to add cells but there are complications as I said before. 

I still think a non-cell based solution would be more robust - see above.

It has some corner cases of its own, for sure, but mostly it behaves more logically than having guards who have Psijik Order remote viewing powers.

 

 

With the slave girls locations, it's the sense of unfulfilled promise that frustrates. They make me want to start fixing them every time I go past.

[sshar22]

Without changing the basic concept of the toll

why don't you mimic RL?:

if you enter town you are expected to pay a tax (when you leave) for how may days you stayed

(RL tourism tax)

if you have a house you pay a lower residency tax but you pay amass it even if you are not in town.

(RL property tax)

if you want to sell stuff to merchants you need merchant license (this can be as wide or as restrictive as one likes)

(RL Commerce license)

if you want to carry a weapon/magic you need a license

(RL weapon license)

you can add grace periods for how soon one has to pay off the debt (residence license)

some of these should be hold wide (commerce and weapon) while the others can be town restricted.

 

Cheers 

 

[sshar22]

On the types of tolls and expenses one can go even more creative

If you are thane you are expected to pay more

(RL rich tax)

if the mod author is a bastard ( joking ?) a prostitution license is also required to do the oldest job ?

(RL prostitution license, some countries have it)

 

don't know if it is possible:

wholesale license, meaning if you go to Adriane wit one iron dagger and sell it (if you have a weapon license to carry it) then ok, you get a terrible deal but you can sell it

but if you drop by with 30 swords you need the wholesale license or they might assume it's stolen goods

 

Cheers

[sshar22]

The way I envision the mechanic is on the "lax" side

the debt piles up, one you can set a interest slider to increase even more the debt, so it is in the player interest to clear it fast

if it grows too big the character gets jailed and enslaved. (as it does in RL)

 

Cheers

 

[Reesewow]

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Slavegirls:

My tweak just removes the mcm as it doesn't do anything and I was running out of mcm slots. I've never seen much in the line of bugs with it but i do know the places you're referring to. They are bananas. I got completely lost in that temple place once and those crazy women wouldn't stop coming lol. But i mean you can just ignore these places and enjoy having slaves running around with their little bits of dialogue which works well with slaverun but also gives the Male npcs slaves to duck instead of potentially you (they prefer zazslave faction members). 

Yea, I've enjoyed having Hydra's mod in my game for a long time, and I don't even run any actual "slave" mods like Slaverun or Paradise Halls.  I eventually just nuked all the extra cells the mod adds in TES5Edit as I never used them, but I haven't noticed any actual bugs from the mod.  I am using the tweaked version that has some adjustments to things like dialogue range, so you don't see the court accountant dictating to his counting slave from half way across the city.

 

 

With all the discussions of the million and one ways very specific edge cases could be dealt with and the multitude of wildly different suggestions on content and tone - did want to mention that SLS is pretty close to a complete mod for my purposes already.  The existence of the licence system, the general mechanics of needing to pay or bribe your way out of cities, and the begging system are all great additions to my game as-is, and I don't personally think they require any radical changes or reworks. 

 

Not to say the mechanics are perfect (no mod is) but IMO I'd personally be completely satisfied with minor tweaks to the systems along with "filler" content like dialogues/interaction outcomes/kennel locations ect.  So thanks for the solid base of the mod so far, it has been a lot of fun to add to my load order along with STA.

[Lupine00]

14 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Not to say the mechanics are perfect (no mod is) but IMO I'd personally be completely satisfied with minor tweaks to the systems along with "filler" content like dialogues/interaction outcomes/kennel locations ect.  So thanks for the solid base of the mod so far, it has been a lot of fun to add to my load order along with STA.

I agree that SLS is very usable as is. I don't have issues with locations myself, but I have no bathhouses or other city addons like that.

 

But I would still really like to see:

• licenses and toll repercussions handled per hold, not globally.
• licenses required in Riverwood, managed out of Whiterun.
• licenses required in Dawnstar, managed out of Jarl's Hall there.

 

I guess I've just been spoiled by SL Adventures.

[Monoman1]

Toll evasion is handled per city. Licences are not. 

5 licence types x 5 holds = 25 licences to get and maintain. It's just too much micro management I feel. 

 

Edit: actually thered be more than 25. Aren't there holds that don't have walled city capitals? 

 

Better licence enforcement in riverwood/dawnstar/rorikstead etc are definitely on the table which is why we're talking about patrolling inspectors. 

[Reesewow]

10 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Edit: actually thered be more than 25. Aren't there holds that don't have walled city capitals? 

Yup, 9 holds technically.  So 45 in total.

[Mailman1234556]

Maybe some more silly questions but: If you get caught evading once how do you clear the punishment? Or do you just get locked up in the armbinder every time you come into town from now on till forever? I found a pay fine box but it doesnt seem to do anything but take my money.

[Monoman1]

Yea that's just too much tbh. And if I wanted to add other licences down the line (whore etc).... licences ++++

 

As for toll evasion. I estimate it took 3 weeks to implement just on its own. I'm not talking +downtime or anything, I mean 3 weeks sitting in front of the creation kit. I wouldn't be keen to scrap the entire system at all. Maybe changes to how the guards detect you're gone but 6 days on your back in the bannered mare I don't think you'd be able to walk. Might be a bit suspicious when you breeze on passed a guard ?

 

Anyway. Inspectors. How do people see them working before I even open the ck. Should they just wander about town. Should they be in shops. Out in the wilds / on the road. Should you be able to kill them and keep your stuff. What would the possible consequences of killing them be. 

[Monoman1]

10 minutes ago, Mailman1234556 said:

Maybe some more silly questions but: If you get caught evading once how do you clear the punishment? Or do you just get locked up in the armbinder every time you come into town from now on till forever? I found a pay fine box but it doesnt seem to do anything but take my money.

The punishments decay every week of game time. So at stage 1 punishment (armbinder only) you should no longer be required to wear one after a week. But you must pay the toll or at least not get caught avoiding it.

[Lupine00]

39 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

5 licence types x 5 holds = 25 licences to get and maintain. It's just too much micro management I feel. 

I can't afford more than one license at a time - if at all - so the whole mechanic has a different flavour if you're that poor.

(Forgot to mention I set price of long-term license to 5000, short term to 2000 - at the default price they are much more of a frequent purchase).

 

It feels like a cheat when I can buy a license in Whiterun, and then sell armor in Windhelm. The big cheat is letting the follower carry contraband items though.

 

Two sets of licenses pre-civil war, collapsing to one after would be a half-way house.

 

 

Most recent trip, I have license for armor, but not magic - because armor is what I need to sell - walked into Windhelm.

Got magic collar.

DCL triggered on conversation, and friendly vendor added a full set of chains and cuffs.

Cannot leave town due to cold and inability to put clothes on while chained.

Owe money to follower...

 

Oh dear  

 

[Reesewow]

22 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Anyway. Inspectors. How do people see them working before I even open the ck. Should they just wander about town. Should they be in shops. Out in the wilds / on the road. Should you be able to kill them and keep your stuff. What would the possible consequences of killing them be. 

In towns - I think they could essentially act like town guards and wander about, and respawn if killed.  Perhaps you could even have them share the guard's schedules and general AI.  Perhaps even give them a unique uniform so players know who they should try to avoid.

 

I don't think having them in shops is particularly needed if there are enough of them outside to make getting to the shop sufficiently risky.

 

Like guards, I think it would be good if you had the option to resist them and fight - especially if doing so would trigger an instant bounty and cause regular guards to also attack the player if in range.  If the player surrenders after, the regular (or adult modded) arrest dialogue could take over - if the player doesn't straight up get sent to prison, the inspector would likely still be nearby enough to strip the player immediately after.

 

I do think it would be ideal if each settlement with guards also had a local licencing official, so players don't need to travel to a major city to retrieve their gear.  I think it would make for better gameplay if you got caught out, needed to scrounge around for a few hundred gold for a short term licences locally, get at least some of your gear back, and carry on.  Especially at lower levels or for those that don't use any form of fast travel.

 

 

Random road spawns I think could also be interesting - altho for these I think it would be especially important to have options to refuse/kill them or bribe them into not taking your stuff.  Last think you'd want to have happen is all your stuff vanish just before a dragon attack with few options to avoid it.

 

[Last_Light]

33 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Anyway. Inspectors. How do people see them working before I even open the ck. Should they just wander about town. Should they be in shops. Out in the wilds / on the road. Should you be able to kill them and keep your stuff. What would the possible consequences of killing them be. 

 

I would stay away from shops or any other interiors tbh. The common roads around major holds seem like a good place for them. As for if you should be able to kill them, of course. If you're trying to keep it immersive and blend into the game somewhat. 

 

By the way I just got a chance to try the new detection system and it's great. I mainly play a mage and I teleport all over the holds instead of quick travel so I always assumed I'd be free of the tolls/license checks, happy(?) to see that's not the case though

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Anyway. Inspectors. How do people see them working before I even open the ck. Should they just wander about town. Should they be in shops. Out in the wilds / on the road. Should you be able to kill them and keep your stuff. What would the possible consequences of killing them be. 

Static NPCs in strategic locations.

• One in Riverwood on the road between Alvor and the shop.
• One in Dawnstar at the choke point on the main entry.
• One in Morthal at the choke point on the entry from the road. No need for one on the swap bridge, as there's no reason to ever go to Morthal anyway  
• One at each gate into Falkreath.
• One in Winterhold, on the road between the shop and the inn.
• Maybe one in the middle of Rorikstead, on the road outside the inn.

 

 

Random guys showing up in the wilderness ... I'd want to be able to kill them ... and then mostly they would just get killed.

It's not very immersive anyway. Can't suspend disbelief on that one. They should definitely only be in places where there are already guards to protect them.

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

As for toll evasion. I estimate it took 3 weeks to implement just on its own.

Surely, that's because you had AI packages for the chase-down? Those broken pieces of rubbish always take forever and fall to bits if edit them, or even look at them.

Adding some dialogs and a bit of script logic doesn't take so long. I think I got my pimping, device adding, drug-dealers for my sadly unfinished Skooma Whore Replacer done in a couple of evenings. They did have some AI, but it was a clone of stock-standard patrol... And those guys had a complex dialog tree where you had to work up the trust levels.