Lupine00 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, unmog said: After the "Im broke" option they get a few more options. If you're not wearing a chastity device, one can be something like "Try to seduce" which would be based on your speech and related perks. If you succeed, sex happens and then you can go in like if you paid them. If you fail, they call you a whore or something and lock you up in some devices, included a chastity device. I like the idea of having to pay to enter but not to leave, and have posted about it before, but Monoman is not up for it. With the current dialog, I don't mind pay to leave so much. I like that it encourages prostitution, or toll evasion.
WhatRules Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 This mod is a great idea! Will improve SL immersion a lot. 1
Monoman1 Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Tenri said: I don't exactly feel like testing without slaverun installed but the OnLoad() event in SLS_TollGate doesn't have an else to the If Init.SlvrunRelInstalled part. Which is where the toll is updated. Ok thanks. I'll look into that when I can. 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: It's not the big problem. At least, I don't believe it is. Don't worry about followers that aren't with the PC. But I do worry! PC combat gear is exactly what should be targeted. You say you want more emphasis on the 'being a whore' route but if a whore has a whole pile of weapons/armors hidden on a follower standing outside the gate then it shoots holes in the idea. Wouldn't you say? 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: The benefit of bringing gear into the city is to sell it. That's still a very good point though. That said. You can still sell pretty much everything in riverwood. 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: the goal is just to make it immersively hard. Isn't it? Yes, yes it is. 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Being denied gear in towns applies some limitations. Amusing limitations. Isn't that all the licenses are trying to do? There are no limitations in SLS. If you can afford it But I would just prefer if the system wasn't so easily cheated. Maybe I can add patrolling inspectors outside of town or something. 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Is it? I mean really? What's the new intent here? I was referring to my own ideas as being wishy washy 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: For me, the "big" deal is stashing all your keys on the DF, and the DF just handing them over when you ask. That's something I want to look at in the follower mod I'm working on. DCLs 'shakey hands' feature, while a bit ridiculous, helps dissuade me from moving keys around too much for now. 6 hours ago, Lupine00 said: I like the idea of having to pay to enter but not to leave Got to keep the women inside. They'll only get themselves hurt outside. Besides I'd have to rip the guts out of the toll system and start over again. Not fun. And there's the issue of fast travel. Fast travel into city -> doors unlocked on the inside = leaving without paying anything. It'd be fine for anyone that doesn't use fast travel (me included). But another way to look at it: If the toll was the doors outside then the closest you can get to whiterun is the stables outside = running through the gate and over the walls every time. Kind of defeats the purpose of fast travel. I guess I could add another fast travel marker but....
sshar22 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Monoman1 said: But I would just prefer if the system wasn't so easily cheated. Maybe I can add patrolling inspectors outside of town or something. I like the inspector idea especially if you include a whoring system (or hook into one) for inspectors to send you to stormcloak camps and imperial ones. But careful on how you implement the inspector mechanic in they confiscate your stuff and magic collar you in the wilderness, it's near certain you either get killed or with defeat mechanic, enslaved. I would suggest an optional fine and/or being forcefully accompanied in town 3 hours ago, Monoman1 said: That's something I want to look at in the follower mod I'm working on. Got to keep the women inside. They'll only get themselves hurt outside. Planning to do a 'devious master/mistress' ? Cheers
Monoman1 Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, sshar22 said: lanning to do a 'devious master/mistress' ? Yea, something like that. A female dominant follower / female player focused version. All I've got right now is a long term willpower system and chastity belt scene after hiring her where she wants to 'protect your virginity' but really she just wants your virginity for herself and also to control your orgasms. There some more ideas (spit balling really) for it on my patreon.
Reesewow Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Monoman1 said: But I would just prefer if the system wasn't so easily cheated. Maybe I can add patrolling inspectors outside of town or something. Actually - I think this could be a great way to work around all the various ways players can hide gear from the gate guard. Rather than try to detect gear from all the places it exists or try to detect gear moving from one inventory to another (with a possibly excessive load if someone moves a bunch of stuff at once) - why not have the mod poll the player's inventory periodically to detect contraband? I'm thinking something like how the cursed collars work in Deviously Cursed Loot - just instead of shocking/staggering the player, detection of contraband while inside the city could spawn an "inspector" who tracks the player like a courier and initiates a force-greet. You could have this be a % chance if you wanted people to feel they could try to risk it, or have it be a 100% probability if you really wanted the citizens of the city to be vigilant about anyone breaking the law. This could allow you to extend the licence system to minor cities as well, by spawning inspectors if the player is in locations marked by specific keywords - they could be showing up because they got a tip that a female was *gasp* walking around in NOT BIKINI ARMOR in Riverwood. I think this approach could also free you up to deal with followers however you like without worrying about covering all the possible loop holes - female followers could be stripped automatically, and male followers could be left alone, since them giving you a sword in the city would just mean an inspector would be on your ass in the next 20 seconds or so. I know offhand my current character has many many ways to cheat the licences if I wanted to without using actual cheats - hide gear in follower's non-inventory storage given by EFF, "Deep Storage" spell from Apocalypse, "Spawn ghostly chest" given by I don't even remember what mod, Quest item to instantly travel to my modded player home and back in a matter of seconds, the list goes on. I don't use it, but if even trying it would guarantee me losing my items again shortly, I wouldn't try it in the first place.
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Monoman1 said: PC combat gear is exactly what should be targeted. You say you want more emphasis on the 'being a whore' route but if a whore has a whole pile of weapons/armors hidden on a follower standing outside the gate then it shoots holes in the idea. Wouldn't you say? I don't find that's the problem for me - personally - but of course not everyone sets their mods up like me, or plays the way I play. It's probably an outlier as configurations go. The follower outside with gear is of no help to the PC who can't leave the city. So you're obliged to raise money to leave the city - unless you want to leave in chains, which tends to end badly, and hampers your adventuring somewhat. Isn't the basically the original design of SLS? Licenses make that better because it's harder to roll into town broke, sell a ton of gear and easily pay your way out. Ultimately, you don't need to make these things impossible, because that starts to leave you with nothing but whoring - and as is well established, that doesn't support an engaging game for very long - need to keep some ability to play regular Skyrim so there's something to do in the game. @Monoman1 perhaps you can explain how you'd like it to work, ignoring any limitations of implementation, and then we would understand your "vision"? I'm trying to imagine the game if you had roving inspectors and slim to no ability to stash gear anywhere, let alone on followers... In that case, how are we to play regular Skyrim? With no gear at all? That sounds like it's something already achieved by various "naked" mods, and it steeply favours a casting build. Or the game is now made of inspector evasion? Sounds like that would mean a lot of effort to tune inspectors or to allow players to do so. I'm guessing that's not exactly the idea, so to what extent are you trying to regulate access to gear? I'm quite happy with the existing setup where you go into town, and you can't sell your stuff, and because of that you can't raise money for a license, and your DF is demanding more cash, and you can't leave town, so you have to feed a hungry DF while you raise the money to leave, or to buy a license. Not everyone has DF, but I think a lot of people that are trying to get good results from SLS would be better off if they did Probably many do already. The loophole at the moment is that you raise money for a license, and then you can sell stuff, and then you can raise more money, and suddenly it gets a lot easier. It just puts more pressure on you to "make money fast" but DF was already doing that. I never worry about fast travel, and I often forget about it, because I disabled it a long time ago and never have it in my game. I sort of forget that some people use it. I think people who use fast travel know it's a big "cheat", and it's their choice to play that way. There are plenty of mods to let them turn it off. If they have it on, it's because they want that ease. You should never worry about fast travel. If it's on, it's on because people want the easy out. I still allow carriages, but they are expensive - something to use when you would probably die otherwise. I can imagine a game with extra carriages and low prices instead of fast travel. Probably some people have that. SLS as it is, adds a lot of good expense, which makes DF play better, and it can really hamper your ability to sell, which is ideal for DF. Imagine in DF the slavery trap where you are in gold control and owe a 4000 debt... You can only raise money from dungeon trips and whoring because you can't loot anywhere else. If you raise money gradually, you stay a slave forever. You may end up 6000 in credit, but you never have 4000 in hand to buy out the slavery (yep, that's how it works with gold control enabled). To buy out, you need 4000 in hand. The only way to do this without "cheats" is to sell 4000 worth of gear in one place, and without changing cell, then buy out of slavery immediately. Similar issues apply to license purchase. If the license vendor isn't in the same cell as where you get the cash, the follower takes the cash - so you can't buy a license. But with no armor + weapon license you cannot really sell enough stuff to raise 4000 in one go, unless you have trading perks in place - assuming you allow them. So basically, no licenses for you, and no way to get out of slavery. Any stuff you sell in Riverwood or wherever is useless, it reduces your debt, but you cannot get out of gold control and you cannot buy a license and you cannot pay off slavery. In this case there's still a cheat were you give money to the follower and hide it there, but SLS makes that risky, but that is the only course open to you. I think it's ... hard enough ? Now imagine the same thing with the values turned up? Or buy sell rates skewed against you? I think you might struggle to get out of DF slavery in that situation. Very challenging. You'd probably end up compulsory potioned too, making the DF indispensable forever. Adding roving license enforcers would be kind of neat - as an option - but I think in that case I'd care about it being "per hold" even more. And the Riverwood loophole? Wouldn't it make more sense to close that up a bit (suggestions already exist) rather than saying the existence of that loophole is a reason to not close other loopholes? As noted, you could have a (static) enforcer in Riverwood who enforces licenses, regardless of the lack of gates or tolls. In fact, if you mixed that up with having to go to Whiterun to buy a license, because (for made up reasons) you can't buy licenses in Riverwood, I think it would work very neatly. Especially if the gear lockers for confiscation are separate, so you get caught in Riverwood, your gear is stored there, then you have to go to Whiterun to get a license, then back to Riverwood to collect your stuff. But if you can't pay the toll for Whiterun, then you could end up stuck, and you can't even get your gear because it's somewhere else. If there's one thing I'd like more of for DF, it's occasional large and unexpected expenses that don't feel totally random and made-up. Some kind of mechanic where the toll can sometimes be much higher... Coming back to those pregnancy mechanics I dreamed of a while back ... maybe that would do it ... simple make it so that the toll for pregnant women is huge. Makes sense, from insane Sexist Guard viewpoint. It wouldn't be a panacea, but it would be a big plus. Maybe some kind of license price variation system to make it a bit more uncertain? Or perhaps certain items could have fines attached, sometimes? Every time you leave town, they tell you what the penalty item is ... so if you toll skip, you won't know ... and if you take too long before you return, it might have changed. e.g. You leave town via the gate, pay the toll. If you ask them about taxes, guards say that the Jarl has put a temporary tax on "fine clothes" (you have to ask them though). The fine clothes tax lasts three game days from the point you ask. So, you return with fine clothes within three days, and they fine you 1000 just for having them (tax). But if you return after four days, the temporary tax might now be on "heavy armor", and if you have 12 pieces of it in your inventory, oh dear, you now owe 12,000 tax... Should have got back sooner, so you knew what would be taxed!
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Reesewow said: Actually - I think this could be a great way to work around all the various ways players can hide gear from the gate guard. Rather than try to detect gear from all the places it exists or try to detect gear moving from one inventory to another (with a possibly excessive load if someone moves a bunch of stuff at once) - why not have the mod poll the player's inventory periodically to detect contraband? We don't need to be quite so invasive (in a coding sense). Inventory polling has problems because it's relatively costly to do - there can be hundreds of items in the inventory and you need to consider tham all - and because if you detect something, what is the immersive way to handle that detection? Sadly, you cannot rely on events for this, due to Skyrim bugs. It's not at all dependable. You really do have to walk the inventory, even if you only do you based on received events. Simply putting an inspector NPC in the middle of Riverwood, and another in Dawnstar would be enough to close off the places where you can sell a meaningful amount of gear without a license. Making smiths and mages into license "enforcers" would be another way to attack this. Then you could possibly cheat a bit, but only so far as you can vend to general traders. Engaging them in dialog would then trigger a check... Spoiler "Look now cupcake. I'm not going to buy any weapons from an unlicensed woman. Sorry 'bout this, but I'm going to have to call the guard." A guard runs over. "You! Selling unlicensed weapons? You know the law. I'm going to take those items and add a fine of <1000>. You'll need to pay it before you can get a license." Fines like this aren't bounty, so they can be set quite high. Maybe even per-item? If the player could tickbox what trader "classes" they wanted to allow to be enforcers they could balance their own game. I've long wanted to make a mod that interferes with your ability to sell to certain vendors based on gender, what you wear, and reputational factors. I'm starting on the path to being able to achieve that now (Monoman can probably guess how). It's going to happen. 1
Reesewow Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 Quote Making smiths and mages into license "enforcers" would be another way to attack this. Then you could possibly cheat a bit, but only so far as you can vend to general traders. Engaging them in dialog would then trigger a check... If inventory polling is too heavy (and it likely would be thinking about it more - I can imagine a situation where someone doesn't care about the clothing licences and it still needs to scan for that while they pack rat an armory around) - perhaps wornitem keyword checking could be a passable middle ground. Better matches my example of DCUL's punishment collar system as well. It wouldn't stop you from simply carrying your items around, but it would stop you from blatantly disregarding the licence system after you avoid the few guards that enforce it. You'd just need to roleplay that your PC has all their stuff stored in a sack, and is telling anyone who asks and doesn't look to closely that is just full of cheese wheels. The punishment results for such a system could also be simpler than spawning a courier to chase you down - they could be as simple as a "You have been reported to the guards for use of an unlicensed weapon" and a bounty. This mod adding teeth to bounties helps that be an effective deterrent as well, as it they reduce your safe haven options if you are better established. As for the carrying still being allowed - I think your idea of smiths/court mages being enforcers of the licence system helps a lot with that aspect, as you having the loot doesn't mean as much if you can't sell it to anybody. Would also make fences a bit more thematic/useful, since items carried without a licence are essentially smuggled goods.
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Reesewow said: It wouldn't stop you from simply carrying your items around, but it would stop you from blatantly disregarding the licence system after you avoid the few guards that enforce it. You'd just need to roleplay that your PC has all their stuff stored in a sack, and is telling anyone who asks and doesn't look to closely that is just full of cheese wheels. I'm optimistic about this happening in SLS, at some point not too far away. Cheese Wheels? I hope they're not GOAT cheese wheels? There's a tax of 1000 gold per wheel on import of contraband cheese.
Conan_Chick Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 Simply knock over write papyrus and because of that slaverun wont fire up. where do we place this , wouldn't it be bad for papyrus to over right one of your mods dependencies ?
Monoman1 Posted June 22, 2019 Author Posted June 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said: Simply knock over write papyrus and because of that slaverun wont fire up. where do we place this , wouldn't it be bad for papyrus to over right one of your mods dependencies ? Download papyrusutil, the standalone version, and install it. https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/484-papyrusutil/ Make sure it overwrites every other version.
Monoman1 Posted June 22, 2019 Author Posted June 22, 2019 Sorry folks I'm on my phone so I need to be brief. My only problem really is being able to save your 'combat gear' completely from the licence system so easily. Of course I don't want to stop you from being able to do combat altogether. That's always been a bugbear of mine for many LL mods. But I do like having to adapt to adversity. Maybe sls needs some makeshift weapon armor crafting. Enough for you to pick off a couple straggler bandits. I'm not saying there should be some magical force that removes anything you don't have a licence for anytime you pick something up. Of course not. But there needs to be risks associated with not having a licence for your combat gear outside of towns too. Roaming inspectors might do the job. Of course you should be able to avoid them if your alert etc. Vendors checking licences is a good idea. I considered it myself but thought maybe it might cause some conflicts. It'll definitely conflict with barefoot realism but I think I could add compatibility with that. Inventory polling - it's something I'd rather avoid. I guess if the inspector sees you wearing armor and you don't have an armor licence then it would be a good enough reason to stop you without checking your entire inventory. Toll increase for pregnancy: Personally I use SGO and have the 'gestation' period set as long as possible. So I'd be screwed with this also how would you detect pregnancy? I could check SLIFs belly scale but other things apply to that too like cum inflation and lactacid inflation....
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 43 minutes ago, Monoman1 said: also how would you detect pregnancy? That is a question I've given some thought to. The lazy way is checking belly size. That works for people who disable other means of "inflation". For me, that's fine. I don't have a "thing" for inflation. Some people seem to really like it. For them, a larger belly value might suffice, but maybe not. This leads to adding specific support for pregnancy mods. No easy way around that. If your soft-deps are unreliable, then you will run into trouble trying to support multiple mods like that. Also, it's clearly extra work. I intend to solve it for SLD, but not yet. I have a pretty good idea of what mods I will support.
mangalo Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 In my opinion, you should stay close to your original idea for the mod. I see a lot of people recommending features that are closer to a Slaverun+ than they are to what this mod seems to be about. If I'm not mistaken, SLS is mostly new little mechanics added to the core game than being some "Skyrim Checkpoint" mod. I'd love to see you revamp Slaverun but I'd rather not see SLS turn into it if you see what I mean But you get the final word on that matter anyway, just my two cents here.
Conan_Chick Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 So it is probably a bad idea to try and do a serious full play through using this mod ? I mean like the dragon quest and all ?
Monoman1 Posted June 22, 2019 Author Posted June 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said: So it is probably a bad idea to try and do a serious full play through using this mod ? I mean like the dragon quest and all ? Other people will be better able to answer that (haven't been playing much recently) but I'd imagine once you have licences for your class - magic/clothes? For a mage or weapons/armor/bikini licence for a warrior you should be ok I would have thought.
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said: So it is probably a bad idea to try and do a serious full play through using this mod ? I mean like the dragon quest and all ? Bad idea? It would be hard. That's the point. You can adjust some things if they become excessively burdensome. It's more likely that you'd get to a point and want to upgrade to some version of SLS (or some other LL mod) that needs a new game, or save cleaning, and at that point you might be tempted to abandon your game. That happens to me more than giving up due to difficulty. I don't "do" save cleaners, as there is no save cleaner that can properly load a modern SKSE upgraded save AND that is practically usable - but that's just my opinion. I find I give up more often due to "ease" rather than difficulty. Though there have been exceptions Most likely, once you hit a moderate level, raising cash to pay for permanent licenses should be easy, though that depends on other mods you have. In my game, cash is still fairly constrained even at higher levels.
Lupine00 Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, mangalo said: In my opinion, you should stay close to your original idea for the mod. I see a lot of people recommending features that are close to a Slaverun+ that they are to what this mod seems to be about. If I'm not mistaken, SLS is mostly new little mechanics added to the core game than being some "Skyrim Checkpoint" mod. I'd love to see you revamp Slaverun but I'd rather not see SLS turn into it if you see what I mean I think I know who you're aiming at I disagree (of course), but I don't see these things as being Slaverun. They are a world away from the total game replacement that Slaverun represents. There's not much in licenses that stops you playing a regular game - and it's all optional anyway. From my perspective, SLS was a mod in search of a direction before licenses were added. It would be great to see licenses polished up to the point where they are a really "finished" feature with all the little corner cases covered, and options to configure more things. There are different ways that could happen, but I hope it happens in some form. Current licenses are a lot of fun, but definitely leave me wishing for more obstacles and more embarrassing situations for the PC.
Conan_Chick Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 Thanks. Ill give it a go. I decided to not use slave run as it will for sure just ruin a play through. lol This is My charter. " Yarl Stifflers Mom
Monoman1 Posted June 22, 2019 Author Posted June 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said: Thanks. Ill give it a go. I decided to not use slave run as it will for sure just ruin a play through. lol I think people are a little unfair on slaverun. If you're not a slave then it's quite easy to tolerate. Just got to be naked around town. And it adds a nice complimentary 'ambiance' to survival. Plus npc on npc sex, who could complain about that. Though you might want to get hydra slave girls so that NPCs actually have slaves to fuck. The only real problem I think is how other mods will react to your nakedness.
Conan_Chick Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 does my left plane load order look right. im having issues clicking on things in helga after starting a new life thing.
Monoman1 Posted June 22, 2019 Author Posted June 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Conan_Chick said: does my left plane load order look right. im having issues clicking on things in helga after starting a new life thing. Don't see anything wrong. When you say you have trouble clicking on things, what does that mean exactly?
Conan_Chick Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 the burned body in helga that has the note to star the quest to go to the cave , unable to mine the iron nodes in the dungeon by riverwood
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