Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, xboronx said:

A funny idea might also be if your follower gets a greed level stat. Not sure if it is possible to track how much gold the player earns, but if it is then your follower could start to request gifts from you. If you often agree the greed level rises and you get asked for more and more often. If you always refuse your follower might start to hate you though, thinking you are uncle scrooge, and try to get his/her revenge, attempting to rob or enslave you when you are sleeping.

This is heading off in the direction of relationship based followers rather than cash based.

 

That's the difference between DF and DCL Sasha. Some of her behaviour is based on relationship stats, and you can do things to make her happy or upset her.

 

Now, I'm not saying that DF should, or shouldn't add relationship aspects, but in they were added, it would be nice to completely disable them if you didn't want that, and possibly on a follower-by-follower basis. I'm also sure they could be interesting, particularly if some followers had more novel wants than "expensive presents" and alcohol in inns. ME promised much on this front, delivered little. Turns out everyone you meet just wants to be your pimp or slave master.

 

Adding relationship features without a few design goals and a clear plan might lead to unsatisfying results despite the effort expended.

 

But this raises the issue of whether it makes sense for DF to be configurable "per follower" rather than only once, and how much benefit that would offer.

It would allow certain followers to be conveniently ticked "ignore" for deviousness, to set some followers greedy and expensive, others cheap and helpful, or to configure individual relationship traits.

 

Personally, I wouldn't get much benefit, I rarely have more than one follower for several real days at a stretch.

[Black Justicar]

Lozeak , for some reason my companions keep stealing and selling quest items. Such as Gradur amulet fragments, named drums and lutes.

Please investigate this.

[valcon767]

On 5/7/2018 at 4:36 AM, Lupine00 said:

And another little idea:

 

Add a dialogue to certain NPCs, innkeppers being one possible group. It fires randomly, not too often.

They're in debt and they desperately need somebody to lend them <an amount of cash a bit less than the PC has on hand> to pay off a money lender.

They explain that if they don't get it soon, something bad could happen to them. PC's offers of direct help are no good because the money lender will just wait until the PC isn't around.

 

If the PC lends them the money, all is well, and game proceeds. The NPC promises to pay the PC back. Later.

Now the PC is nearly broke.

 

If the PC refuses to help, next time they come to the inn, the innkeeper is missing, and they can't rent rooms or trade.

This persists for a few days, and then the NPC returns, with some background dialogue about how they got beat up and dumped in a ditch.

 

For extra immersion, you have to find the NPC who has been beaten up and dumped in a ditch, and help them get home. This possibly also involves lending money.

 

The loaned money eventually gets paid back, but not for a week or two of game time, and you have to go and collect it.

 

In this case, the PC gets themself in trouble by choosing to help. They can always refuse, but there's a price.

personal opinion - this would be a good addition to Devious World

 

along the same lines it could in fact pause some vanilla quests too.

example

this event could trigger on Delvin and Vex during the Thieves Guild Expansion questline

Player does the radiant tasks to get an Expansion Quest (the quest to add a new fence to the other walled cities)

Player goes to Delvin (or Vex) to get a new radiant quest (where normal would be the quest to get a fence in another city)

Delvin (or Vex) says i have run into a problem, someone hired the Dark Brotherhood to kill me, but due to being loosely affiliated with them they will accept a payment to void that contract.  i need a large sum of money to do this and cannot do anything else until this is resolved.  If you help me i will see to it you get a reward.

If Player choose not to help the Radiant Expansion Quest (for a new fence) does not fire (nice reason to help)

If Player helps it takes all the Player's cash, leaving the Player broke and the Expansion Quest fires as normal

Player completes the radiant Expansion Quest as normal

Player turns in the Expansion Quest (gets the new fence and merchant for the Ragged Flagon), and Delvin (or Vex) tells the player i will have your reward shortly.

Player then asks Delvin (or Vex) about their reward.

If Player is wearing devices - Delvin (or Vex) responds please come back when you are not quite so tied up.

If Player is not wearing any devices - Delvin (or Vex) goes ok i found some stuff i think you would like (and proceeds to put several devices on the Player).

something like this could be done in most questlines (i think) and would give a actual reason to help the NPC

 

2 hours ago, Black Justicar said:

Lozeak , for some reason my companions keep stealing and selling quest items. Such as Gradur amulet fragments, named drums and lutes.

Please investigate this.

 

known issue (it can also affect unique items, like the daedric reward items).  Lozeak is working on a way to prevent this from happening (IIRC) but it will take

a bit of time.  in the meantime you should be able to get them back, just buy back your stolen items (who has them depends on which version you are running),

version less than 1.20 should be Belethor (you will have to check his merchant chest, using tcl console command to access it, for items tagged as stolen), and 

there is a new npc (with a quest marker) for version 1.20 or greater.

 

[SamBooka]

This mod is getting better and better, thanks alot

[Fenroo]

I know it was many pages ago, but I'd love some of the forced chastity deals that unevensteven proposed. Hopefully they can make it in at some point. A week's chastity for exchange of some debt that  becomes 2 weeks for whatever devious reason, etc. Especiallyaused a loss of will power that led to some downward spiral difficult to escape from.

[spyke123]

Maybe I shouldnt ask this here since it is not really about this mod, but since this is the only mod I use that equip boots I might as well...  how do you guys get your sexlab animation alignment right when getting boots equipped? Mine Always get messed up since actor height is altered...  and if I manually toggle alignment then it gets messed up for everyone not wearing boots...

 

Have always been avoiding boots because of it, but this mod is really to good to avoid...

[just_Gina]

29 minutes ago, spyke123 said:

how do you guys get your sexlab animation alignment right when getting boots equipped?

I believe there is a setting in sexlab that evens actors height.

[Reesewow]

48 minutes ago, spyke123 said:

Maybe I shouldnt ask this here since it is not really about this mod, but since this is the only mod I use that equip boots I might as well...  how do you guys get your sexlab animation alignment right when getting boots equipped? Mine Always get messed up since actor height is altered...  and if I manually toggle alignment then it gets messed up for everyone not wearing boots...

 

Have always been avoiding boots because of it, but this mod is really to good to avoid...

There is a Sexlab option called "Clear  High Heels Height" or similar.  It should disable the boots effect during SL scenes.  

 

Even actor height option is not what you want for this - that setting is for matching up different sized actors like a max height Nord with a min height Breton. 

[Polonium]

The Devious World download requires the ZazExtensionpack.esm, which isn't supported by ZaZ 8 as far as I know. Not sure if this is a bug or WAD.

[CinamonBun]

I cant hire anyone? I have the money and everything but when i talk to them they don't follow or take the money after the dialog

[Reesewow]

11 minutes ago, aidanepic said:

I cant hire anyone? I have the money and everything but when i talk to them they don't follow or take the money after the dialog

This mod doesn't let you "hire" people - just get a regular follower to come with you and they should start asking for money and get special dialogues about paying them. 

 

If you are talking about the debug option that adds a dialogue - you are not supposed to use that dialogue on non-followers (it is a tool to help when the mod can't detect a custom follower ect).

[valcon767]

7 hours ago, Polonium said:

The Devious World download requires the ZazExtensionpack.esm, which isn't supported by ZaZ 8 as far as I know. Not sure if this is a bug or WAD.

all i can say about this point is that some people have no trouble with running both, some used to have trouble (i am one of these), and some still have

trouble running both.  all you can do is try it and see.

 

46 minutes ago, aidanepic said:

I cant hire anyone? I have the money and everything but when i talk to them they don't follow or take the money after the dialog

this mod normally kicks in after you have a follower.  exception would be hirelings.   so the question is which follower are you trying to hire?

 

edit ninja'd while afk by Reesewow

 

[Lozeak]

16 hours ago, Black Justicar said:

Lozeak , for some reason my companions keep stealing and selling quest items. Such as Gradur amulet fragments, named drums and lutes.

Please investigate this.

I did and I will continue to look into it but you can get your all items back for 200g (including quest) if you follow the quest, unless it's bugged then let me know.

If I find a good way to detect quest items I will create an option not to take em but until then I'm happy as it is cause you should maybe make deals with the follower if you don't want to chase your items down, or just set it so that it doesn't steal item.

 

14 hours ago, SamBooka said:

This mod is getting better and better, thanks alot

^^

12 hours ago, Fenroo said:

I know it was many pages ago, but I'd love some of the forced chastity deals that unevensteven proposed. Hopefully they can make it in at some point. A week's chastity for exchange of some debt that  becomes 2 weeks for whatever devious reason, etc. Especiallyaused a loss of will power that led to some downward spiral difficult to escape from.

I have it listed in idea/suggestions but I have no plans to implement it anytime soon. Captured Dream mod has this kind of stuff in spades it can lock off a lot of stuff in Devious followers though.

 

12 hours ago, spyke123 said:

Maybe I shouldnt ask this here since it is not really about this mod, but since this is the only mod I use that equip boots I might as well...  how do you guys get your sexlab animation alignment right when getting boots equipped? Mine Always get messed up since actor height is altered...  and if I manually toggle alignment then it gets messed up for everyone not wearing boots...

 

Have always been avoiding boots because of it, but this mod is really to good to avoid...

The beta DD stuff I think might be dealing with that issue not sure (they are removing highheels requirement) try the suggestion tho.

9 hours ago, CGi said:

Devious Follower V1.23a - Localized & USLEEP patched.

This is a test version to see how well the condition changes from USLEEP work with this mod and what needs to be removed or changed in order to make it work.
i tested it to the best of my extend and it works but this doesn't mean it works for others too so please keep this in mind.

And no, USLEEP is not a requirement. i only carried over it's fixes after cleaning the plugin from iTM's.

includes an FOMOD driven installer and a full german translation as well as support for modders and translators.

The scripts are not localized because by the time i'm done localizing them, they might already be outdated and i prefer if @Lozeak does not have to deal with that.

Edit: The mod is now using a BSA instead of loose files. The BSA was created using Beths Achive program and no 3rd party tool for max compatibility.

 

Devious Follower V1.23a (1.5MB)

 

Edit: Reuploaded to fix some brain farts in the installer. -.-' it's fully working now.

Thanks, Localize em. I don't have plan to work on the mod in the next like 3-4 days cause life/work/mood and even if I do i'll but the time in to integrating them. I will need to understand it though.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Lozeak said:

If I find a good way to detect quest items

Not just quest items, because amusingly, they'll also remove restraints. Or did in 1.19 - I haven't been deprived of items since then.

Look at the DCL source code for item theft after combat defeat. I think you could basically use exactly that.

 

 

I've been thinking about Devious World and what it might be for exactly. What is its "mission statement"?

You need something to focus around so you can pick out ideas to work on. I wanted to think of things that could be done fairly easily without having to write a whole combat defeat system.

 

One possibility is that DW is primarily the mod that makes you want to have a devious follower.

 

So, it would create situations that are very devious, for people without a follower, and for those that already have a follower, offers a tantalising sliver of hope when they get seriously into debt.

 

 

For example, it might have NPCs who like to put you in restrains that need a helper to get out of, or custom restraints that are easy for a DF follower to remove, but which require rare keys if you don't.

 

It might have situations where you get trapped in Zaz 8 devices, and if you have a DF follower they'll free you after some fun, but if you don't have a DF follower, some bandits will free you instead, after they've robbed you and had their fun, and you'll like that a whole lot less, especially if they sell you afterwards.

 

It might have situations where you can save money in various ways if you're enslaved to your DF follower, making it easier to get your freedom, even if you would otherwise have a negative cash-flow problem,.

 

It might have situations where you get hit with taxes and bounties if you own property, but if you're enslaved, your follower pays and doesn't add it to your debt.

 

 

In short...

 

If you don't have a follower, you're in a lot more direct peril. You get hit with more devices, more difficult devices, and potentially harsh situations where SS comes into play.

 

If you have a follower, you're saved from that peril, though it does add situations where you might get sudden unexpected expenses from time-to-time, but if you're enslaved, it helps take cost burden off you so that you might get free, rather than simply sliding faster into debt (as tends to happen now unless you cheat in the MCM).

[Lupine00]

Elaborating with specifics on some of the suggestions for DW above:

 

1) Property tax.

If you own property in a city, and you're out of the city, tax builds up. When you return, you have a period to pay, and if you don't do it, you get a bounty. If you pay off the bounty or go to prison, you still owe the tax debt, you just get a new time window to pay it. You don't pay tax when you're in the city (the exact opposite of SL Adventures).

 

The tax has a certain unpredictability to it, so you're never quite sure if it will be a big tax, or a small tax, but oddly enough, it always starts small, and later on, it gets bigger. And bigger. Might just be enough to leave you unable to pay your follower. Or worse, you might need to borrow money from your follower as well. Still, better than being stuck in prison and still owing the tax anyway, right?

 

 

2) Cage and prison-cell traps. 

Exploring a dungeon or fortress, you go pick the lock of a cage or prison cell, and go inside to loot some tempting item. Once you're in the cell, the door slams shut behind you, and you find the lock can't be accessed from inside! You're trapped and will starve to death? But no! Never fear, your DF follower, who conveniently didn't follow you in, can let you out ... for a small fee or some debt.

 

What? No DF follower? You better shout for help... Someone's coming... Oh... Is that bandits you hear? Or slavers? Or hired thugs? What if it were draugr? Yuk!

 

They stand outside, close enough to talk to. They're amused to find you there. They'll let you out of the cell, but you look dangerous. You just need to put on some safety devices before they'll unlock the door. Either that, or you can stay in the cell... So, with no choice, you bind yourself up, and then they open the door, perhaps slap a yoke on you for good measure, all take their turns, perhaps more than once, and then when they're finished, at the very least they steal all your valuable items and cash, then leave you bound in some random location, and at worst, they brand you with some humiliating tattoos and sell you at the slave market.

 

 

3) Friendly devious vendor.

A helpful NPC can be found in every town in some location where you expect shops. He will buy devious devices, for cash, at a reasonable markdown on the listed value. Some of those items are extremely valuable! What a great source of cash to pay your greedy follower!  But these vendors learned marketing at the Captured Dreams academy for bondage merchants - they like to give free samples - not all the time, but sometimes, particularly if you have low willpower, or lots of ready cash that you might want to spend on some nice items. You do want nice items, don't you?

 

Your devious follower will remove them at normal cost, and you can just hand them back to him, but if you don't have a DF, you have to pay the vendor the full cash value for the items, and then a whole lot more for the keys. Probably, you'll have the cash, but if you don't he'll report you to the guards for petty theft, and they will take all your cash and put you in prison anyway. Cheer up, the prison was just freshly OVERHAULED.

 

Or, if you're a slave to your Devious Follower, your DF may lend you to the vendor to do some display and advertising work for him. You'll get to wear some lovely new clothes and your follower will safely escort you all around the local area, and you can look pretty and demonstrate the wares ... frequently, and rather intimately ... alright ... you have to offer a bunch of NPCs free sex ... but at the end, the vendor pays your follower a nice big fee, and because your follower loves you so much, they let you keep a whole THIRD of it, and use it to reduce your debt.

 

The friendly devious vendor is the go-to guy for bondage and slavery related matters. He buys, trains and sells slaves, and though he doesn't sell keys, he might sometimes remove yokes ... for a high price. He can charge more than the Dollmaker, because he's more conveniently located. He's actually multiple different NPC models with a shared base. They're all different guys, but they function exactly alike, excepting crime-faction.

 

 

4) Deviously Kidnapped

The PC upset somebody, and they swore revenge! Several days later, she awakes, only to find herself bound in a piece of Zaz 8 display furniture, or perhaps, covered in devices and trapped in a set-piece Zaz 8 dungeon or cell, in the middle of nowhere. Shortly afterwards, her captors arrive and supply the expected rapes and beatings. A little background chatter reveals that they intend to sell her off once she's been "properly trained". Once they're finished with their friendly introduction, they put her back in the furniture/cell and leave. The poor PC might lose quite a bit of willpower from the "training".

 

A little later, the devious follower shows up and releases the PC, in return for some debt. The PC is naked, and has nothing but her quest items and trusty follower to fall back on.

 

What? The sad, lonely PC doesn't have a devious follower? Oh dear... She might have to endure several more rounds of rapes and beatings before the kidnappers sell her off - to the friendly devious vendor.

 

He'll set her up with his assistant trainer (as minder) to go make him some money.  If she makes enough, he'll set her free ... sort of.

 

This is a situation where you get provided with a brand-new follower that you can't get any other way, forced into devious follower slavery, with appropriate deals, and assigned an appropriately large debt, then you have to work your way out.

 

Just goes to show that you can't avoid those devious followers, even if you never hire one!

[valcon767]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

--- snip---

 

those are some nice ideas for Devious World.  

[dwellerindarkplaces]

27 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

those are some nice ideas for Devious World.  

Seconded!

[Aqvaman]

I really like the devious world addition and I think that it could really blossom into something spectacular. For example, how about having the merchants giving you normal prices instead of "slave" ones (presumably they raise their fees just like the innkeepers do when dealing with lowly slaves) if the PC spends a few hours tied outside their shop, advertising the business or offering free "services" to the customers?

[Lupine00]

On the topic of prices. I found that a major speech debuff is a great DF feature.

 

My character picked up a tentacle monster from Parasites, which debuffs speech skill to 0, due to induced revulsion.

 

Since then, I can't make any cash, and as I curiously decided not to get rid of my trusty follower, I seem to be in some debt. What a calamity!

 

Hopefully, at some point I'll be able to get the parasite off, and return to normal speech levels, and then I'll have to start digging my way out of deals and debt.

 

Will I able able to pull it off? 

 

Er, sorry, I mean the task, not the tentacle monster

 

 

Raises an interesting point ... once  your willpower has been totally trashed, it could take more than a bit of the sleep of freedom to recover it. At least, as an option.

[Polonium]

12 hours ago, valcon767 said:

all i can say about this point is that some people have no trouble with running both, some used to have trouble (i am one of these), and some still have

trouble running both.  all you can do is try it and see.

Do you have a method to get Zep and Zaz 8 to work together? I'd appreciate any help you can give in getting Devious World running.

[valcon767]

10 hours ago, Polonium said:

Do you have a method to get Zep and Zaz 8 to work together? I'd appreciate any help you can give in getting Devious World running.

some posts that may (or may not) help

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-7th-may-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2227419

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-7th-may-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2225825

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-7th-may-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2225869

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-7th-may-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2226404

 

the last linked post is one i made about 1-2 weeks ago

 

aside from the linked posts what i would suggest to do is to make a new download of the required mods (zaz 8.0 or zaz 8.0+, ZEP, and Heretical Resources)

so that you have the latest versions of them.  install them afterwards (if using MO check the last linked post above for load order suggestion).

links to ZAZ 8.0, ZAZ 8.0+, and ZEP are in the last linked post, link for Heretical Resources ( https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3062-heretical-resources-11-03-2017/ ).

do not use TUFP and make sure the ZEP you get is 1.08 is the one for use without TUFP. 

 

try loading Devious World right after Devious Followers.  do not forget to run FNIS again after installation.  if when you run FNIS you hit an error let me know and i can

try to help more (although i am not sure how much more help i can be).

 

[CinamonBun]

23 hours ago, valcon767 said:

all i can say about this point is that some people have no trouble with running both, some used to have trouble (i am one of these), and some still have

trouble running both.  all you can do is try it and see.

 

this mod normally kicks in after you have a follower.  exception would be hirelings.   so the question is which follower are you trying to hire?

 

edit ninja'd while afk by Reesewow

 

I am trying to hire Stenvar in Windhelm, I get the option "Consider yourself hired. [pay 500]" but when i select it he says "my blade is shape and I thirst for battle. Onward!" but no money is taken out of my inventory and he doesn't become my follower. Talking to him again gives me the same options and the same thing happens. Not sure whats wrong, going to try it on a few other followers.

[Reesewow]

40 minutes ago, aidanepic said:

I am trying to hire Stenvar in Windhelm, I get the option "Consider yourself hired. [pay 500]" but when i select it he says "my blade is shape and I thirst for battle. Onward!" but no money is taken out of my inventory and he doesn't become my follower. Talking to him again gives me the same options and the same thing happens. Not sure whats wrong, going to try it on a few other followers.

This may depend on load order between Devious Followers, whatever follower framework you are using and other mods that affect these dialogues like Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.  I'd try a non-hireling follower and see if you have issues there as well.

[valcon767]

44 minutes ago, aidanepic said:

I am trying to hire Stenvar in Windhelm, I get the option "Consider yourself hired. [pay 500]" but when i select it he says "my blade is shape and I thirst for battle. Onward!" but no money is taken out of my inventory and he doesn't become my follower. Talking to him again gives me the same options and the same thing happens. Not sure whats wrong, going to try it on a few other followers.

 

1 minute ago, Reesewow said:

This may depend on load order between Devious Followers, whatever follower framework you are using and other mods that affect these dialogues like Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.  I'd try a non-hireling follower and see if you have issues there as well.

hmm something strange is going on with Stenvar

did a fast run to test,  Stenvar does not get hired, Janessa (Whiterun Hireling) and Maruciro (Riften Hireling) do get hired and can be dismissed and run normally.

non hireling followers work fine (those i have used recently).  i use AFT and using its "force to be a follower" function Stenvar works as a Devious Follower and can be

dismissed but then all dialogue is broken with him afterwards (but i can rehire him using the "force to be a follower" function again).

 

i just don't know what is going on with him (Stenvar), so about all i could suggest is to use some other follower (unless your heart is set on Stenvar).

 

[Reesewow]

4 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

i just don't know what is going on with him (Stenvar), so about all i could suggest is to use some other follower (unless your heart is set on Stenvar).

Stenvar has some weirdness going on - he was the one that was 100% breaking DF if you talked to him with a current follower on some of the earlier versions (he stole DF status and would never let it go).  Perhaps the *fix* for that has broken him in other ways.