Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[BigOnes69]

14 hours ago, valcon767 said:

 

@Reesewow and @Lupine00 

 

i am not trying to add confusion to this issue, but i found the Devious World mod a day or 2 ago.

due to not being sure that the versions of its requirements were the most recent i re-downloaded them to be safe.

ZEP - 1.08 (not the TUFP version) https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3398-zazextensionpack/

ZAZ 8.0 (i just dumped the Cosio bodyslide into it) https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/4688-zaz-animation-pack-v-80-2017-11-15/

ZAZ 8.0+  https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/5211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/

 

i do use Cosio (CBBE) not UUNP though, i am not sure if that makes any difference (it should not for FNIS)

 

ran FNIS (no warnings at all) - FNIS 7.0XXL

FNIS run 04 28 2018.txt

 

 

as you can see in the picture above i use MO.  the important part is circled in green to make it easier to find.

the last time i tried to use ZEP with ZAZ 8.0 or 8.0+ i had the same FNIS error Lupine is running into.

what makes this strange is that these are fresh installs (with no editing by me other than just dumping the Cosio Bodyslide into ZAZ 8.0)

this time i do not have any FNIS issues.  the only difference between the 2 times is that i downloaded the ZAZ and ZEP stuff all over again.

in the past i found out through a combination of trial and error and a post by someone else (i forget who) that to get ZAZ 8.0 (or 8.0+) to work with ZEP

load order (in MO for me) was critical.   wrong order and stuff just did not work.  the only order that i found that worked for me was to have both 

left pane and right pane match exactly for these mods and they had to be in a specific order:

 

Sexlab

ZAZ Animation Pack (whichever version i wanted to use)

Sexlab Aroused

Heretical Resources

Devious Devices Assets

ZEP 1.08

 

any other order and i ran into stuff not working.

 

i honestly have no clue why it works for me and is not working for Lupine.

 

hopefully this information helps to (at least) find why it is not working correctly for Lupine.

 

I did the opposite from you and put ZAP lower in both the installation order and Load order so that ZAP overwrites ZEP. My logic is that Zaira said several months back that with new development of Maria Eden that there would be changes to ZEP and that they could be drastic. Zap has the functionality of the original animation pack and is the link for older mods. I do not see many overwrites between the mods but would rather retain the consistency of the connection to the older mods that depend on ZAP. I dont see it effecting Devious World doing it this way and it works with FNIS.

[Lupine00]

You could read the dependency order out of DW, but from what I could see, DW has mis-sorted masters, and had the vanilla expansion files in the wrong LO.

 

LOOT thinks that ZEP should follow Zaz. It makes no difference to the FNIS problem I had either way.

[Fenroo]

Enjoying this mod although it makes me afraid to loot anything/anyone. What do you do when your devious follower also gets wrapped up in bondage? 

[Fenroo]

Sometimes I get a message that my follower is angry and wants to get paid. What happens if I don't pay her?

[Fenroo]

Oh I think she just sold some of my stuff

[Stuker]

2 hours ago, Fenroo said:

Oh I think she just sold some of her stuff

Fixed.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, isn't it?

[valcon767]

5 hours ago, Fenroo said:

Enjoying this mod although it makes me afraid to loot anything/anyone. What do you do when your devious follower also gets wrapped up in bondage? 

well you can struggle out of your wrist bindings, so that you can release your follower from his/her wrist bindings

you can go find someone to release you or your follower from wrist bindings

you can hope to get a event that releases wrist bindings on one of you

if all else fails there are several "emergency release" mechanics in some mods (including one in DDI), but i would suggest to try other means first due to the fact

that those are for emergencies and may cause other issues if used (bad timing on use can cause some quests to not work properly anymore)

 

i do try to set all mods so that follower does not get armbinder/yokes (this usually covers wrist bindings that stop use of hands)

 

[Reesewow]

5 hours ago, Fenroo said:

What do you do when your devious follower also gets wrapped up in bondage? 

Same thing you do if a regular follower gets wrapped up in bondage - find a key or two.  I do find that I prefer to have follower support turned "off" in Cursed Loot with Devious Followers running as it seems to fit the dialogue better if the follower isn't ever tied up and happy to offer bondage removal services for a price.

[Lozeak]

On 28/04/2018 at 10:37 AM, deviant51 said:

Is it just me or are the follower quests like: straightjacket, tied up when sleeping with gag and the pony quest bugged out?

since the new update I have this problem:
 

pony quest:

when the follower trips you over everything goes normal, but when I talk with them they give me the end dialogue of the tied up when sleeping with a gag quest.

gag sleeping at inn
problem 1: this also works in the heartfire hearthfire lakeview manor. (I had a steward and a diffrent follower when this happened) (not a big deal because you can just reload the autosave from before the sleep.
problem 2: when completing the quest, either by following the quest of refusing and having the debt added, the follower dialoge turns into normal follower dialogue with some Devious followers dialogue. but you can't pay your follower and weird things happen like some Devious followers dialogue options showing up 2 or 3 times.

blindfold straightjacket
same as problem 2 above.

If it is just me, someone please help

 

Load order:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

GameMode=Skyrim

Skyrim.esm=1
Update.esm=1
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SexLabControllerAsVibrator.esp=1
 

 

 

 

 

So, from this I don't know what is going wrong looks like a quest is stalling out or something, I'll look into it but what it could be is that you updated from an old save meaning it's glitchy. I don't think it would be a mod incompatibility cause it looks like an internal problem.

 

[Anisei]

Really good mod, thank you for making it, but unfortunately I couldn't get it to work with EFF because everytime I'd try to dismiss a follower, it would bug out, and follower would keep following me, I tried the things mentioned here to adjust load order, but it would never work, not even on a new game

 

Hopefully some kind of compatibility is made between the two mods so I can enjoy this mod, EFF is just too good to be dropped off my load order

[Lozeak]

 

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's not a FNIS version issue. I tried with 7.0 and then with the new 7.4.4 and both report the same thing.

Also, looking at the installs, and the files that cause it, there is no load ordering fix you can make that will ever resolve this problem. Read on.

 

So, it may be that some updated upload of one of the packages fixed this, by removing a file, or the reverse, it was broken recently.

That's why I suggested posting MD5 hashes for the "working" distributions.

 

I need to post the file paths and download hashes so you can see, but I just have time to write this now. I'll update this post later.

 

The problem line is:

AAprefix zbx

which is duplicated in different mods within my "C:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Skyrim\ModOrganizer\mods\"

 

A search of my entire MO mods tree (not all are installed in any one profile) reveals it appears in the following FNIS_*.txt file paths:

• Tara-UltimateFurniturePack.PatchTo.V.1.3\fnis und behavior (keine neuen animationen dazugekommen)\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt
• ZazAnimationPack 8\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_List.txt
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511\meshes\actors\character\animations\ZazExtensionPack\FNIS_ZazExtensionPack_List.txt
• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\old lists\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_ListDOWNCOMPATIBLE.txt
• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\old lists\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_Listlatest.txt

 

Here are some MD5 hashes from fciv.exe

 

• 254877957acc1f0451ba1c1cc370b1ad zaz animation pack unp v.8.0.[2017.11.19].7z
• d8fe7bf56be660cbbc8dd2a93e22d1cc zaz animation pack+ uunp hdt v.8.0+.7z
• 70545f2675d9215acbcd96ab7dbc5cff zazextensionpack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z

 

Now, we can set aside the TUFP ones, as TUFP isn't in my profile - but it's interesting, as we can see this prefix was used in TUFP and patched in TUFP.

You might think that FNIS only reads FNIS_*_List.txt files as animation lists, but apparently it's a bit more generous than that, and picks up anything starting with FNIS_* - I should imagine the FNIS documents are pretty explicit on what it reads, and I haven't had time to look there yet either, but I know from the errors that it gets into those files.

 

In any case, it's clear that in Zaz 8, the occurrence is in the FNIS_ file that is expected to be used. It's not in some archive, or provided for historical interest, or whatever, it's the main animation list for the pack, and it contains an AAprefix that conflicts directly with the ZEP file, not in name, but in contents.

 

Thus, no load-ordering will ever fix this, unless you have another mod in the mix that overwrites one of those files with a non-conflicting copy.

You could fix this if delete or edit by hand either the one in Zaz 8, or in ZEP.

 

In the case of Zaz 8+ it's a bit different; the files are provided differently, hidden in an "old_lists" directory, and given interesting extensions, like maybe you are supposed to manually pick and install one, maybe... But probably not, as it has FNIS_* list files that do not have the problem prefix, and they are in the location you'd actually expect the animation list to be. My guess is that the "old files" are just junk/clutter that breaks your FNIS.

 

Incidentally, I downloaded Zaz 8+ fresh yesterday - having never bothered using it before.

My Zaz 8 downloads were done months ago.

The ZEP you see here is also new, because the Zep I used in the past was for Zaz 7 + TUFP.

I removed the old ZEP install from MO, and can probably remove TUFP installs too, but it's immaterial; I have no profiles that use them, and they certainly aren't in the DeviousWorld one, which I only made a couple of days ago, and which is pretty minimal.

 

There's definitely "something going on" in the install process for Zaz 8/8+ here; ZEP had this animation prefix before either was released, but it seems probable it first appeared in TUFP.

 

Perhaps Zaz 8/8+ expects some manual antics here, where you remove your ZEP animation list and either use the Zap 8 one, or pick one of your choosing in Zap 8+ ?

 

If so, I must have missed the directions for this essential step on the front page of Zaz 8+. Has anyone else found instructions for this?

 

I was able to build FNIS with Zaz 8+ and ZEP, by removing the "old lists" directory from Zaz 8+ but whether that setup actually works in any useful way I'm not sure; I haven't even had time to compare the ZEP and Zaz files, let alone try seriously testing the setup. However, it did load and animate some stuff.

 

I've looked into the files now, and I feel fairly safe that the "old files" in Zaz 8+ are just junk. There's no doubt that the ones in ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack itself are far more up to date, and cover very much the same content, or more.

 

So. For me at least, the answer is, install Zaz 8+ not Zaz 8 (as was linked to) and delete the "old files" directory.

All that remains now is to test this theory properly.

 

On 28/04/2018 at 5:58 AM, Lozeak said:

So yea, I intended it to do that you are warned by the inn keeper outside of that curiosity killed the cat is the best way to put it lol. 

 

Willpower wise, hmm yea would make sense but since you might need to recover willpower gameplay wise I don't want to reduce the only way (atm maybe) to recover it.

Those are the versions I have installed. No problems. Long time I think I had that problem or I helped someone that had that problem it has to do with having more than one version installed or tufp installed as well. I forget when I get time I'll look into it.

 

it's that 100% 

• Tara-UltimateFurniturePack.PatchTo.V.1.3\fnis und behavior (keine neuen animationen dazugekommen)\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt

These line should not appear if you don't have Tufp installed (i tested it to confirm) got same error. I had the problem with someone before and it was that they didn't cleanly uninstall Tufp (they only disabled esp i think) delete the FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt and FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt.

[Lozeak]

7 minutes ago, Anisei said:

Really good mod, thank you for making it, but unfortunately I couldn't get it to work with EFF because everytime I'd try to dismiss a follower, it would bug out, and follower would keep following me, I tried the things mentioned here to adjust load order, but it would never work, not even on a new game

 

Hopefully some kind of compatibility is made between the two mods so I can enjoy this mod, EFF is just too good to be dropped off my load order

 

So this may happen if you lend 500 to add a follower because it's my mod adding the follower to you. If you get the follower added by normal means my mod will hook into that and start then when you clear debt deactivate allowing you to remove the follower by normal means. You could test this, also EFF probably need to be lower in the mod order than mine.

[Anisei]

29 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

 

So this may happen if you lend 500 to add a follower because it's my mod adding the follower to you. If you get the follower added by normal means my mod will hook into that and start then when you clear debt deactivate allowing you to remove the follower by normal means. You could test this, also EFF probably need to be lower in the mod order than mine.

Oh, it could be that, thanks for the info, it was Marcurio from Riften (you pay 500g to recruit him), will test with other random follower that I don't pay anything for and let you know how it goes

 

Yeah, had EFF lower than DF, saw tons of people suggesting it here

[Fenroo]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Same thing you do if a regular follower gets wrapped up in bondage - find a key or two.  I do find that I prefer to have follower support turned "off" in Cursed Loot with Devious Followers running as it seems to fit the dialogue better if the follower isn't ever tied up and happy to offer bondage removal services for a price.

Oh this is what I need. Where is this setting in the MCM?

[Fenroo]

Aaand my devious follower ditched me 

[Reesewow]

19 minutes ago, Fenroo said:

Oh this is what I need. Where is this setting in the MCM?

Cursed Loot MCM -> Follower Options -> Follower Support Enabled (disable this).

Quote

Aaand my devious follower ditched me 

Should probably consider paying them. 

[Ursur1major]

What does one do if their follower refuses to rest?

I've gone to the tavern twice now with a day of adventuring in between to see if it maybe simply took some time to process but my follower simply refuses to have a nap while my character is sleeping, each time has been well over 6 hours and my follower seems to have just gotten more tired when I wake up, this is a bit problematic and I hope there is a fix.

 

Meanwhile I thank you Lozeak for this mod and I hope it will continue to be expanded upon.

[Fenroo]

24 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Cursed Loot MCM -> Follower Options -> Follower Support Enabled (disable this).

Should probably consider paying them. 

My money ran out

[Anisei]

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

 

So this may happen if you lend 500 to add a follower because it's my mod adding the follower to you. If you get the follower added by normal means my mod will hook into that and start then when you clear debt deactivate allowing you to remove the follower by normal means. You could test this, also EFF probably need to be lower in the mod order than mine.

Reporting back after testing, long story short, it works, as long as I don't recruit Mercenary Followers that ask for 500g (like Marcurio)

 

Went to Derkheetus and recruited him, got the dialogue, dismissed him after clearning the debt, worked, did the same with Uthgerd the Unbroken and it worked too. thanks for the assistance, can enjoy the awesome mod now again

[Reesewow]

Minor bug report for version 1.16 - the base device removal cost slider seems to no longer affect the removal cost of items, the first one always costs 500.  The price increase per removal slider seems to work fine, and I haven't noticed any other sliders with issues.

 

This is on a save-cleaned save that did have 1.15 on it before, but is not a direct upgrade.

 

Edit:  Nevermind - apparently I just needed to do a sleep cycle with my follower to have device removal pick up the new MCM menu settings.

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, Lozeak said:

it's that 100% 

• Tara-UltimateFurniturePack.PatchTo.V.1.3\fnis und behavior (keine neuen animationen dazugekommen)\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt

These line should not appear if you don't have Tufp installed (i tested it to confirm) got same error. I had the problem with someone before and it was that they didn't cleanly uninstall Tufp (they only disabled esp i think) delete the FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt and FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt.

No. You are mistaken 100% - but thanks for the help, if I was an NMM user, you would have a point.

 

You didn't read my post thoroughly. As already explained in detail. I don't have TUFP in my profile, those files are not in the VFS for any of my DF/DW games.

And the actual cause of the problem is isolated and identified, as is the fix - which does not require removing any non-existent TUFP.

 

The real problem is explained in excruciating detail; it's all there in the earlier post. Please read. The problem was entirely in the Zaz 8 install.

 

Thinking about it now, the only logical conclusion is that at some point in the past, I must have edited my animation list in Zaz 8 by hand.

I don't recall ever doing it, but it might have been months ago, and there's no other way it could be like that.

 

Files don't edit themselves. At least, not in MO.

[Lupine00]

Now my DW is working...

On to something good and fun!

 

When I queried whether the cursed gauntlets were supposed to destroy all your equipped armor, Lorzeak said "YES!"

I notice that the same mechanic appears in DW...

 

I quite like the incredible harshness of it, but it's not enough.

 

It really ought to traverse your inventory and destroy any armor that's not devious, or marked QUEST.

 

In fact, I'd like it ever better if it also destroyed any weapons not marked QUEST too.

 

 

It's completely toothless removing the gear the PC is wearing if she has an inventory full of looted armor she can just put straight on.

 

Could it destroy all your gold too?

[Lupine00]

I was trying to exercise lots of scenarios to test dialogue last night.

 

It occurred to me that DF would be even greater if it created more situations where you suddenly end up in-debt to your follower.

 

If only there were a way to integrate DCL combat defeat and blackouts - and maybe Frostfall "non-lethal" hypothermia too.

 

 

When you get ported to an inn, your follower could take credit for rescuing you, and add a huge fee for it. It makes sense that they would be responsible, and makes sense they would charge; and it's fun because it can drop you into a big debt you weren't expecting, just like that.

 

 

There's no easy way to do it, but if DW plans to add defeat, we could use DW defeats instead of DCL and get it that way, right?

 

 

Right now, the situation is hard to balance:

if prices too high, you just plummet into deeper and deeper debt quickly,

too low, you never get in debt at all. It's hard to find a sweet spot.

 

How about a "dynamic" option, not totally wild like chaos mode, but more gentle.

 

If enabled in MCM...

 

If a follower sees that you have lots of cash banking up - say you have more money after you pay them than when you last paid them - they put their prices up, or accuse the PC of cheating them of their "share", and add debt.

 

If you have more than a threshold amount, various random thefts occur when you sleep. You get robbed in the night. Maybe it's your follower? Who knows? In any case, your cash gets stolen, or cash and small valuables like gems and jewellery.

 

If you manage to pay the follower for more than a certain amount of days - if your debt never reaches a point where the follower gets annoyed, for X days, for example - the follower gets bored and starts to play pranks on you. You wake up to find all your clothes and armor are missing. The follower has them and has run off to a different town, and left you a catch-me-if-you-can note and tells you to ask the innkeeper for help. You can ask the innkeeper where the follower has gone, but he won't tell you unless you put on some devices he gives you. When you find the follower, she gives you your stuff back, and hits you with a bill for the devices the innkeeper had, plus her food and accommodations while you were looking for her, plus normal fees.

[Clockwinding]

3 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I was trying to exercise lots of scenarios to test dialogue last night.

 

It occurred to me that DF would be even greater if it created more situations where you suddenly end up in-debt to your follower.

 

If only there were a way to integrate DCL combat defeat and blackouts - and maybe Frostfall "non-lethal" hypothermia too.

 

 

When you get ported to an inn, your follower could take credit for rescuing you, and add a huge fee for it. It makes sense that they would be responsible, and makes sense they would charge; and it's fun because it can drop you into a big debt you weren't expecting, just like that.

 

 

There's no easy way to do it, but if DW plans to add defeat, we could use DW defeats instead of DCL and get it that way, right?

 

 

Right now, the situation is hard to balance:

if prices too high, you just plummet into deeper and deeper debt quickly,

too low, you never get in debt at all. It's hard to find a sweet spot.

 

How about a "dynamic" option, not totally wild like chaos mode, but more gentle.

 

If enabled in MCM...

 

If a follower sees that you have lots of cash banking up - say you have more money after you pay them than when you last paid them - they put their prices up, or accuse the PC of cheating them of their "share", and add debt.

 

If you have more than a threshold amount, various random thefts occur when you sleep. You get robbed in the night. Maybe it's your follower? Who knows? In any case, your cash gets stolen, or cash and small valuables like gems and jewellery.

 

If you manage to pay the follower for more than a certain amount of days - if your debt never reaches a point where the follower gets annoyed, for X days, for example - the follower gets bored and starts to play pranks on you. You wake up to find all your clothes and armor are missing. The follower has them and has run off to a different town, and left you a catch-me-if-you-can note and tells you to ask the innkeeper for help. You can ask the innkeeper where the follower has gone, but he won't tell you unless you put on some devices he gives you. When you find the follower, she gives you your stuff back, and hits you with a bill for the devices the innkeeper had, plus her food and accommodations while you were looking for her, plus normal fees.

Damn that mini game seems awesome

 

[qawsedrftg765]

So it seems to almost be impossible to get 'enslaved' they just sell whatever is in your inventory, given the insane amount of gold most items are worth.

 

Would it be possible to just disable this feature of them 'stealing' your stuff and instead just flat out throwing on the chains when the debt limit is reached?

 

I have tried setting the sale figure to 0% however, during 'normal' for some reason the follower would just remove some random items and move on from there.

 

It would feel much more reasonable that if (debt limit) is reached that they just slap on the collar until you pay them.