Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Lupine00]

10 minutes ago, xboronx said:

I have installed SD+, Devious Cidna, Defeat, Slaverun Reloaded and Deviously Enslaved.

You almost certainly want Death Alternative, not Defeat.

You will also want Simple Slavery so DA can gateway you into any slavery mods you install.

 

You might want to add PoP, as otherwise prison is a holiday for slaves.

 

I don't think SD+ and Slaverun are a good mix, as once you start Slaverun it basically takes over your game, and all slavery is Slaverun slavery - at least, it works best that way.

Personally, I'd say putting SD+ in with Slaverun is asking for problems. You might make it work alright if you set the Slaverun options up in a forgiving way.

 

If you want to play Slaverun, stick with it, you won't need any other slavery mod.

If you want to play other slavery mods SD+, DC, PoP, DCL and CD have a certain synergy together. You need SS.

 

If you install DCL, make sure you disable its combat defeat, because DA (or Defeat) will clash with it.

[Reesewow]

11 minutes ago, xboronx said:

With Defeat i had the same issue as a fellow member posted that either my follower gets constantly new debt when Defeat tries to initiate a rapescene or that he interrupts it with the line "Followername is witnessing what happens".

Here's the post i mean:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-3rd-may-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2228256

 

The other mods i haven't tried yet, but i think they might all lead to problems if they try to enslave your follower too.

 

So anybody tried yet and can share some tips about MCM settings/temporarily disabling the mods while adventuring with a follower because otherwise bad stuff happens?

I personally use Defeat, Deviously Cursed Loot and Aroused Creatures as my main companions to this mod.

 

Deviously Cursed Loot for the spontaneous rape scenes if the player is vulnerable (hits willpower) and for putting on devious devices that I may want to pay my follower to remove, or get more willpower hits if I can't get them off quickly.

 

Aroused Creatures again for spontaneous rape scenes, altho these depend on creature and player arousal levels.

 

Defeat for combat rape - I have not personally experienced the issues you mention, possibly due to my MCM menu settings.  The "Followername is witnessing what happens" should be something you can stop happening through your MCM menu settings - turn off "Witness Intervention" and "Morality Matters" wherever you see it, especially in the Player as Victim tab.

 

I don't know about the constant new debt problem as I haven't noticed it, but I use "Original" as my knock down scenario setting in Defeat's Player as Victim tab.  You should also try making sure that "Follower lives lost on being victim" option in Devious Followers MCM menu is turned off.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I personally use Defeat, Deviously Cursed Loot and Aroused Creatures as my main companions to

The reason to use DA is because of its superior gateway to Simple Slavery, which AFAIK has the broadest compatibility with slavery target mods.

 

I find both DA and Defeat to be problematic in terms of bugs, and Simple Slavery is also not without its problems; I try to avoid them all if possible, but for some kinds of LO build, there's no alternative to a full-fat combat defeat mod and SS enslavements.

 

DCL combat defeat also has its bugs, but they are comparatively benign compared to the weird things that can happen with Defeat or DA. DCL does handle SS, but that's where the bugs begin to show.

[Lupine00]

Here is my full "lore friendly" English text revamp of Devious Followers 1.20

 

If you just want the patch, then get DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch.7z attached below.

 

 

I've put up both a straight patch (apply on top of your DF 1.20 install with overwrite) and the EET used to generate it, so you can customise your own text, reapply to different DF versions (such as 1.19 if you're still on that), or just generally muck about.

 

The EET is only of interest to people who know what an EET is.

 

Note that on the DF front page, the DF version that this matches is mis-named DeviousFollowers1.2 (rather than DeviousFollowers1.20).

Do not apply the patch to 1.19 (though the EET should be fine). PM me if you want a patch for 1.19 - my guess is the few people that would want this are moving to 1.20 anyway. You'll probably want to TESVEdit sort masters on the patched mod, because the patch preserves the master dependency ordering of the original ESP, which is IMHO, wrong. But if you never sorted the master order on your regular DF install, then you can ignore it with this too.

 

 

This alternate text tries to improve many hundreds of typos, idiosyncratic grammar, incorrect use of gender specific pronouns, opaque tool-tips, and all that stuff where the follower talks like she is a sassy American teenager rather than a fantasy adventurer.

 

It patches both the ESP and script files. All the pop-up boxes and top-left scrolling text are changed too.

 

 

What this isn't, is a full dialogue rewrite. It doesn't try to change the intent of the existing dialogue, or re-interpret events. In most of the in-game text, the changes are not all that intrusive - the only place I rewrote freely was in MCM tool-tips - where I felt there was a need to clarify things for new users - the people who really need the tooltips. Hopefully, I didn't write more things that were wrong than things that I fixed.

 

In some cases, I "fixed" dialogue that was inappropriate when repeated, such as the follower always saying "Pleased to meet you" when you've been adventuring with her for months, or use of "again" when the dialogue might be appearing for the first time.

 

There are well over a thousand changes, total...

 

Enjoy! Or don't bother. It's up to you.

If you're not the sort of person who winces every time they read "You ow me 1270 gold", then this patch might not be for you.

 

If you find something rubbish that could be better, feel free to let me know (PM probably best, considering).

 

Patch file: DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch.7z

 

EET file: DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch-v4-EET.7z

[Reesewow]

24 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The reason to use DA is because of its superior gateway to Simple Slavery, which AFAIK has the broadest compatibility with slavery target mods.

I was referring to mods that *I* use that work well with Devious Followers, and what Defeat settings to use to hopefully avoid issues - I have no opinion on the harder slavery mods or how to link to them because they are not part of my load order and haven't been for a long time, and I have no clue how they would react to Devious Followers or vice-versa. 

 

I'm willing to bet that plenty of the Simple Slavery outcomes could be problematic if you still have a Devious Follower in tow and would at least require DF to be paused to not cause issues.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I'm willing to bet that plenty of the Simple Slavery outcomes could be problematic if you still have a Devious Follower in tow and would at least require DF to be paused to not cause issues.

I agree. SS is extremely fragile. It totally fails with DCL dominant followers, and often fails to get you enslaved via SD+ with the right factions in place for you not to die instantly.

[quantumrex]

6 hours ago, Reesewow said:

 

- in the debug menu turn off "Custom/Quest dialogue debug" option. 

 

This will mean that running Devious Followers does *not* block regular follower interactions like inventory access or commanding them.  I personally don't want to have to pay my follower each time I want to have them hold some items, so this works well for me.  You don't actually miss out on anything as far as I can tell - all the Devious Follower dialogues will be there along with your regular follower commands, and you shouldn't be able to dismiss them without paying them off.  It also means if you have custom followers with stuff like combat aggression controls ect you will have access to that at all times.

 

 

D'oh! Didn't see that one, I'll have to try it. However, the idea that at some point their dialog gets restricted is still interesting to me. Your follower just doesn't care anymore about helping, and is only interested in making your life difficult. Maybe this could be the default behavior until a certain debt threshold?

 

6 hours ago, Reesewow said:

 

There is no reasonable way for the mod to know if you want a follower to be "devious" ahead of time, and each player is different.  Some would only want mercenaries to charge, while other players want all followers, including custom ones, to charge.  The best way to fix this is to manually turn the mod off if you plan to do stuff like Amorous Adventures quests, or Serana stuff ect and don't want Devious Followers breaking immersion by having them charge you money for helping them out. 

 

 

I only suggest that the mod offer something like a non-devious faction, whose members would be ignored by this mod. These would need to be maintained manually by the player (possibly with MCM assistance). It would also allow other mods to declare their NPCs exempt, if they so choose. I hate to suspend the entire mod, since I usually run around with multiple followers. 

 

[orgs1n]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here is my full "lore friendly" English text revamp of Devious Followers 1.20

Thank you! One thing I loathe even more than being enslaved, is being enslaved by illiterates.

[Reesewow]

5 hours ago, quantumrex said:

I only suggest that the mod offer something like a non-devious faction, whose members would be ignored by this mod. These would need to be maintained manually by the player (possibly with MCM assistance). It would also allow other mods to declare their NPCs exempt, if they so choose. I hate to suspend the entire mod, since I usually run around with multiple followers. 

A "ignore this npc" faction would be cool.  In the meantime you can also try using the debug option that gives you a dialogue to assign the Devious Follower status.  There is only one DF at a given time, so you can manually give that role to followers that it makes more sense on.  Only issue is that your non-devious follower may get the DF status pretty quickly if you ever dismiss the DF follower.

[Lupine00]

Not seen this one before...

 

College of Winterhold...

 

I'm going to Saarthal, so I pay off and dismiss Lydia, who has been standing around peacefully, listening to Tolfdir ramble on about wards.

 

She immediately goes aggro on Ancano, who is standing behind her, and turns to attack him.

Ancano unleashes a few firebolts back at her.

 

Clearly confused as to how the plot is going to play out, the other mages join in with Ancano, and Lydia is speedily defeated.

 

Lydia recovers, and the scenario repeats until I get bored of watching and leave the hall.

 

Now I know we'd all like to kill Ancano, but it's just not working out for poor old Lydia.

 

Seems like her factions weren't restored correctly on dismissal.

 

Addendum... See below. Looks like this issue is caused by SLDialogues overwriting the dismiss dialogue scriptlet.

[Foxst]

What needs to happen for the follower to do things like in your screenshots? Specifically the event where you stumble and they add gloves, as well as what needs to happen for the follower to equip you with the full prisoner chains?

[Lozeak]

On 04/05/2018 at 8:25 PM, CGi said:

You can do with it as you see fit, it's your mod afterall.

But putting it there would prevent it from getting burried.

I'd rather your hardwork not get buried ^^.

20 hours ago, quantumrex said:

I really like this mod, but playing it mostly makes me want to avoid using followers at all... I have a few suggestions (if someone hasn't already posted these):

 

 

I miss having the ability to use my followers as pack-mules. Would it be possible to add in some way to give them items?

• It would make sense that their debt could scale based on the weight of items they're holding.
• If they aren't paid, maybe I don't get my loot back? Once enslavement happens it's gone forever?
• Having them accept items as a way to pay debt seems too much like cheating (insert summon-able merchant mod here).
• I would suggest using a separate container from their inventory, so that storing DD items won't equip them on your follower (EFF / Convenient Horses do this).
• If they're holding a huge number of items, or a few very heavy ones, my debt would scale too quickly to ever be payable... I'm not sure if that's a bad thing considering the purpose of this mod, but maybe a weight cap would help with balance/immersion.

 

Followers with quests are suddenly charging me money to do their dirty work (Amorous Adventures, etc.)... Makes it very strange when they're forced to follow you for quest objectives.

• Would it be possible to add certain followers to an exempt list? Something MCM based?
• Would it be possible to establish positive credit? Pay the follower ahead of their debt requirements, to prevent their dialogue restrictions?

 

 

I've noticed the "Nice to meet you" greeting happens within minutes of getting a follower, and even though my debt is 0 their dialog is changed. It seems like the dialog should only change when I actually have debt. I'm not sure how that would affect removing devices or borrowing money; Those would absolutely make sense to be included before the change.

 

 

Anyway, keep up the good work!

 

I thought that you could still trade with your follower (unless your enslaved) if is this isn't the case it's a bug.

 

19 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

With regard to translation. The ESP-ESM Translator can translate text in scripts, but you have to be very careful about saving your translation afterwards, though the data at risk is your translator database, not the integrity of the mod.

As for centralising all text data in one mod, it's ultimately better, but I'd have to reapply all my stuff, as would anyone who translated scripts to German etc.

 

 

Returning to my problems with item removal. It was obvious enough that some items cannot be removed by design, and piercings seem to be one of them.

 

However, I believe there may be a bug. If you have any unremovable item on you, the dialogue simply presents the This is how it works... text and pop-up, and loops back to the main topic list.

 

In my experience, wearing a piercing was enough to make the follower unable to remove anything, and just produce the introductory dialogue.

 

I haven't looked at the code to confirm this is a real diagnosis, but it seems fairly consistent in my game. Removal works as long as every single item you're wearing is removable, and doesn't, if they aren't. Possibly, "heavy bondage", is tested differently, and if you have that, it works despite other blockers. I haven't properly confirmed this last part, it was just a one-time observation.

 

However, if a follower can't remove any items, they should probably...

(a) recognise there are items there they can't deal with, and say so,

(b) still consider the explanation as read, and not keep re-presenting it.

 

I know the mod is set up so that (a) is intended to happen for quest/cursed items, but it should also work for ordinary items that are simply tricky, like high-security items, custom items, and piercings.

So if you have a device the follower doesn't remove (collars,cuffs .... ect) the dialogue comes up blank.

I don't want the follower to remove every device in the game only the devices that can stop gameplay.

So the blank dialogue is lack of conditioning/explanation (I am working on a solution for this)

 

18 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Another nice feature that would avoid Pause or Reset use, be more immersive, and create unexpected debts...

 

If you really must get rid of an existing follower for a while (e.g. a certain quest is going to inflict a compulsory follower on you) ... currently you have to use Debug menu features.

This also has the bonus for forcing PCs with ready cash into deals despite not having a debt they can't pay.

 

What if... you could do a deal in exchange for the follower taking some "time off"?

 

But... Only when you don't have any existing deals, and your willpower is high.

 

e.g.

 

PC: I need you to take some time off.

Follower: That's a lot of trouble for me, but I'm prepared to make a deal.

PC: Alright, let's make a deal for time off.

Follower: How long do you want?

 

PC is offered a dialogue with times from 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, a week, and selects three days.

 

Follower: Alright, we'll make a deal for time off, and I'm going to add 3000 gold debt.

 

(The amount varies with length of time off, it's set to 1000 per day in this example).

 

Follower then presents the make a deal dialogue, and the player gets some consequence game, such as Slut or Corset.

If the player refuses to deal, they keep the debt from above, but the follower does not go on a break.

 

Assuming the player takes a deal, the follower is dismissed and goes home.

The pending deal, existing deals, and current debt is tracked in a (single) set of variables.

 

 

After the agreed duration expires, if the player has no follower, the old follower will follow the player into the next inn they enter, and automatically re-enter service.

 

Follower: "I'm glad I found you. It's time for you to pay me back. You haven't forgotten our agreement have you?"

The deals and debts are all imposed on the player.

 

However, at the end of the duration, if the player has some other follower still in tow, the vacationing follower can't return. As long as they're blocked they'll add debt, and once they've hit the failure threshold of debt, they'll add deals. Also, the current follower will never agree to taking a break, so only one copy of stored states is needed.

 

After a maximum of another week, the angry follower shows up anyway, same method as before, and demands the player make good on their debt.

The old follower transacts some scene dialogue with the vacationing follower, and they agree to transfer the debt.

The old follower is paid off and leaves again, while the PC's current follower adds all the accumulated debt and deals from the old follower. All at once. 

This debt will probably be enormous.

 

If not in endless mode, the debt is capped after application, items sale etc, so it doesn't push you over the "follower deserts you" threshold.

However, deal levels are added together, and days remaining added together.

 

Oh dear. Poor PC. Everything you own got sold to Belethor, and you got enslaved by your follower.

 

That will teach you not to mess your old follower around!

This was an early idea I had, the problem is error catching it in game will take a lot of work and removing/readding follower could create more bugs. I may do it one day but it's an feature that is outside my skill set atm.

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here is my full "lore friendly" English text revamp of Devious Followers 1.20

 

If you just want the patch, then get DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch.7z attached below.

 

 

I've put up both a straight patch (apply on top of your DF 1.20 install with overwrite) and the EET used to generate it, so you can customise your own text, reapply to different DF versions (such as 1.19 if you're still on that), or just generally muck about.

 

The EET is only of interest to people who know what an EET is.

 

Note that on the DF front page, the DF version that this matches is mis-named DeviousFollowers1.2 (rather than DeviousFollowers1.20).

Do not apply the patch to 1.19 (though the EET should be fine). PM me if you want a patch for 1.19 - my guess is the few people that would want this are moving to 1.20 anyway. You'll probably want to TESVEdit sort masters on the patched mod, because the patch preserves the master dependency ordering of the original ESP, which is IMHO, wrong. But if you never sorted the master order on your regular DF install, then you can ignore it with this too.

 

 

This alternate text tries to improve many hundreds of typos, idiosyncratic grammar, incorrect use of gender specific pronouns, opaque tool-tips, and all that stuff where the follower talks like she is a sassy American teenager rather than a fantasy adventurer.

 

It patches both the ESP and script files. All the pop-up boxes and top-left scrolling text are changed too.

 

 

What this isn't, is a full dialogue rewrite. It doesn't try to change the intent of the existing dialogue, or re-interpret events. In most of the in-game text, the changes are not all that intrusive - the only place I rewrote freely was in MCM tool-tips - where I felt there was a need to clarify things for new users - the people who really need the tooltips. Hopefully, I didn't write more things that were wrong than things that I fixed.

 

In some cases, I "fixed" dialogue that was inappropriate when repeated, such as the follower always saying "Pleased to meet you" when you've been adventuring with her for months, or use of "again" when the dialogue might be appearing for the first time.

 

There are well over a thousand changes, total...

 

Enjoy! Or don't bother. It's up to you.

If you're not the sort of person who winces every time they read "You ow me 1270 gold", then this patch might not be for you.

 

If you find something rubbish that could be better, feel free to let me know (PM probably best, considering).

 

Patch file: DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch.7z

 

EET file: DeviousFollowers-1,20-textPatch-v4-EET.7z

Thank you for this. It ok to feature in main post/use dialogue in the mod?

[CGi]

9 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I'd rather your hardwork not get buried ^^.

[JTRX]

Haven't you think about optional 'hardcore' mode? You can disable all MCM menus and controls, when your follower is present, so if you want it back, follower must be dismissed.

[CGi]

25 minutes ago, JTRX said:

Haven't you think about optional 'hardcore' mode? You can disable all MCM menus and controls, when your follower is present, so if you want it back, follower must be dismissed.

This is only "fun" until you hit a bug or any other situation where you may need the MCM to progress further.
As it is now, it's fully in the control of the player and her/his willpower to not use it.

[Brommer]

I think I found a bug with Devious World. When I walk across the bridge in Winterhold from the college to town (strangely not in the other direction), the "cage  makes your clothes disappear" message shows up and my armor disappears, just like when using one of these cages. Can other people see if it happens for them as well?

[xboronx]

22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You might want to add PoP, as otherwise prison is a holiday for slaves.

 

 

Just forgot it in my list, PoP is of course installed, it's such a great prison mod.

 

22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You almost certainly want Death Alternative, not Defeat.

You will also want Simple Slavery so DA can gateway you into any slavery mods you install.

 

 

 

Tried Death Alternative back then, but i remember that there was a big debate about the mod and Defeat and SD+ removed the hard requirement for DA after that. Imho it is not neccessary for my load order.

Simple Slavery is nice but i often had bugs when it tried to send me to some owners. Deviously enslaved continued has a similiar function making npcs try to enslave you if you are too vulnerable.

 

22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't think SD+ and Slaverun are a good mix, as once you start Slaverun it basically takes over your game, and all slavery is Slaverun slavery - at least, it works best that way.

Personally, I'd say putting SD+ in with Slaverun is asking for problems. You might make it work alright if you set the Slaverun options up in a forgiving way.

 

If you want to play Slaverun, stick with it, you won't need any other slavery mod.

If you want to play other slavery mods SD+, DC, PoP, DCL and CD have a certain synergy together. You need SS.

 

If you install DCL, make sure you disable its combat defeat, because DA (or Defeat) will clash with it.

 

I'm intending to play Slaverun as endgame content once i finished the rest of the game, till then it is in the basic stage only affecting whiterun. Problem is i have so far never finished the normal Skyrim campaign because i always started over after a few weeks/months, getting tempted by too many new mods/updates i wanted to try out. So eventually i thought it is saver restarting then trying to get the save clean. It's kinda funny with well over 1000 hours in Skyrim.

 

22 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I personally use Defeat, Deviously Cursed Loot and Aroused Creatures as my main companions to this mod.

 

Deviously Cursed Loot for the spontaneous rape scenes if the player is vulnerable (hits willpower) and for putting on devious devices that I may want to pay my follower to remove, or get more willpower hits if I can't get them off quickly.

 

Aroused Creatures again for spontaneous rape scenes, altho these depend on creature and player arousal levels.

 

Defeat for combat rape - I have not personally experienced the issues you mention, possibly due to my MCM menu settings.  The "Followername is witnessing what happens" should be something you can stop happening through your MCM menu settings - turn off "Witness Intervention" and "Morality Matters" wherever you see it, especially in the Player as Victim tab.

 

I don't know about the constant new debt problem as I haven't noticed it, but I use "Original" as my knock down scenario setting in Defeat's Player as Victim tab.  You should also try making sure that "Follower lives lost on being victim" option in Devious Followers MCM menu is turned off.

 

Thanks i will try those settings for Defeat.

DCL i will reinstall once a new update comes out. It's a great mod, but a bit too much with my other mods currently i think.

 

 

 

I somehow overlooked the Devious Follower MCM debug setting "pause the mod", feeling a bit dumb. So when i get enslaved i probably just should hit this button and see how it works.

 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Thank you for this. It ok to feature in main post/use dialogue in the mod?

As CGi said, it's your mod, do what you want with it.

 

I make no special claims on what I've done, the base EET is up there for anyone to use how they like.

 

I'll generate updated patches if there are new versions, for the time being at least.

 

 

I can generate modified script sources if there's any interest, but perhaps Lozeak intends to move to SKSE translations throughout the scripts anyway?

 

 

 

Regarding this "translation", are there any people who would prefer it in the style of the original, with the sassy-teen-talk?

I could put that back for people that have grown to love it.

Or instead of a female-follower-centric style, make one for male followers with a bit of a Sexist Guards vibe?

 

 

Sure, it makes J'zargo sound like he's auditioning for a part in Priscilla Queen of the Desert, but if a player only ever picks female followers, maybe they prefer it that way?

 

In vanilla, J'zargo really says something like "You are saying that because you are losing so badly that you do not even realise that you are doing it."

He has some good lines.

 

Would be sweet if DF had character specific dialogues, but obviously that would be a lot of tedious busy work, and non-vanilla followers would still have to use defaults.

 

Gender specific dialogues are probably more bang for buck, but probably, if it was between that and some new feature, I'd pick the new feature.

[Lupine00]

8 minutes ago, xboronx said:

I'm intending to play Slaverun as endgame content once i finished the rest of the game, till then it is in the basic stage only affecting whiterun. Problem is i have so far never finished the normal Skyrim campaign because i always started over after a few weeks/months, getting tempted by too many new mods/updates i wanted to try out. So eventually i thought it is saver restarting then trying to get the save clean. It's kinda funny with well over 1000 hours in Skyrim.

For such a situation, I wouldn't install Slaverun until I'd finished the main playthrough.

 

Thus, reducing the risk of any game-breaking bugs or annoyances from Slaverun when it's not even needed.

 

Slaverun is an ESP, so you can - if you're brave - just stick it on the end of your LO and hope it works out. I can't think of any obvious reason that Slaverun would need to load before another mod, and if you have things that seriously conflict with it, you probably don't want them both in anyway.

 

I'm guessing that the Slaverun followers (Bellamy for example) don't really make sense under DF, and you'd need to pause it.

 

But from my experience of Slaverun, you have it backwards. Play Slaverun at level 1, finish it with the "good end", then play the rest of your game. The whole enslavement thing just doesn't fit right with a powerful character. It just feels like nonsense.

[Lupine00]

Devious World cages...

 

Maybe... Just maybe, it's not so great that activating one always destroys your gear.

 

I think it might work better if they only do anything at all for characters with low willpower. If a high willpower character clicks one, they should just get a pop-up.

"This cage looks like a good place to keep a slave."

...or something...

 

 

Why? You may ask.

 

Because I have somehow managed to accidentally click on those cages while doing something else SOME DISTANCE away from the cage, and it still activated ... on several occasions now.

 

For whatever reason, it seems to happen a lot for me coming out of the inn in Winterhold, but there's always a risk of a mis-click with the others too, especially in busy locations where you might be trying to click on an NPC near the inn entrance - and that happened to me in Solitude.

 

When you click on the cage of armor destroying, and it (for example) nukes the Arch Mage robe or your Nightingale Armor, it's simply quit and reload time. (Or faff around in the console finding item IDs time).

 

If there were a confirmation pop-up or something, then it would be ok, but there isn't, it's one wrong click, and bam, armor dissolves into nothingness. Sometimes it doesn't even seem like you have to be near the cage at all.

 

 

On one occasion it happened when I am SURE I didn't click the cage at all - just coming out of the inn activated it somehow ... the click was pre-activated on exiting the inn, and was "implicit" in the auto-save for entering Skyrim from the interior. I could reload the save and get the cage result every time. There was no way I could have clicked the cage, even if I'd tried.

 

Perhaps that is related to a bug in the code for purchasing the "cheap" room?

I'd spoken to the innkeeper, but hadn't asked to rent a room (and had 10 willpower at the time).

 

Also, I have PoP and SD+ after DF/DW in my LO, so it might be that one of them has tampered with the cages, causing the no-click activation problem, but if so, that could be a fairly common scenario, as both those mods are typically considered late load-order candidates.

[Lupine00]

SLDialogues and DF load order...

 

If you load SLDialogues after DF, it stops followers from starting up properly.

They will still get the "Can I borrow some gold?" topic, but they will never do their "New DF follower announce" or add the other dialogues, and they never start tracking debt etc. They remain a fully vanilla follower.

 

The "debug make anyone a devious follower" option doesn't help either. It doesn't show up at all.

 

 

However, if you already have a follower "started" in DF before you add the SLDialogues ESP, then DF continues to work normally, and no dialogues disappear.

 

My guess is that both have a script fragment hanging off the Follow Me topic, and that fragment is the main point of conflict.

The "It's time for us to part ways" fragment is probably also broken by SLDialogues, and causes the nutty behaviour with factions that I saw earlier.

 

 

Thus, I found it's possible to temporarily disable the SLDialogues ESP (which for me, is my last ESP), recruit a follower, have them become devious.

Then... Save. Quit. Enable SLDialogues ESP. Start. Load. And I have SLDialogues installed and a working DF follower.

I suspect that to properly rid myself of a DF follower, I have to disable the SLDialogues ESP again.

 

 

Given this behaviour, it might be possible to change the DF code so you can work around this easily with a debug item.

Then DF wouldn't be LO depedent on SLDialogues and it would be safe to put SLDialogues last.

It's likely that without SLDialogues last, SD+ doesn't handle followers correctly.

 

If DF had a debug option to trigger its follower add script on the current target, that would obviate the need for the existing "make anyone a devious follower" dialogue, AND solve this sort of problem where the dialogues simply don't appear.

[CGi]

Due to the nature of DF you need to create patches for every mod that adds to the follower dialogue. in my case for RDO.
it's in the nature of things and not overly complicated to do using TES5Edit.

Just pay attention to the order of conditions and everything gets along with eacher other just fine.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, CGi said:

Due to the nature of DF you need to create patches for every mod that adds to the follower dialogue. in my case for RDO.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Is it actually possible to properly resolve it so that both scriptlets run in TES5Edit? It's not a condition list issue, it's a scriptlet issue. 

 

I'm going to see if TES5Edit merge will let me run both scriptlets, as it seems theoretically possible.

Update: I looked, seems likes the event gets hooked in code, there's nothing to resolve in TES5Edit. Let me know if you can do better.

 

As for whether the SLDialogues script is worth retaining, that's another question entirely. Perhaps it's just junk ... but it's also possible that SD+ relies on it.

 

 

Though it might be possible to resolve this with merge trickery, it would still be better if the debug add follower was a run-on-target rather than driven by dialog addition.

 

Could also have a debug dismiss follower.

 

This would mean almost anyone can get working DF without recourse to TES5Edit - and I'm somewhat suspicious that saying it's "not overly complicated" is a little bit of humble-bragging. Due to the total lack of actual documentation TES5Edit has quite a learning curve. There are guides sure, but it all adds to the burden. Once you start looking at mods like that, all their magic disappears.

[CGi]

28 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Is it actually possible to properly resolve it so that both scriptlets run in TES5Edit? It's not a condition list issue, it's a scriptlet issue.

When it comes to changing scripts and sometimes adding fragments to conditions, you need to use the CK to ensure everything is compiled and linked correctly.
But so far the dialogue didn't need the CK for patching and TES5Edit sufficed.

[Lozeak]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

As CGi said, it's your mod, do what you want with it.

 

I make no special claims on what I've done, the base EET is up there for anyone to use how they like.

 

I'll generate updated patches if there are new versions, for the time being at least.

 

 

I can generate modified script sources if there's any interest, but perhaps Lozeak intends to move to SKSE translations throughout the scripts anyway?

 

 

 

Regarding this "translation", are there any people who would prefer it in the style of the original, with the sassy-teen-talk?

I could put that back for people that have grown to love it.

Or instead of a female-follower-centric style, make one for male followers with a bit of a Sexist Guards vibe?

 

 

Sure, it makes J'zargo sound like he's auditioning for a part in Priscilla Queen of the Desert, but if a player only ever picks female followers, maybe they prefer it that way?

 

In vanilla, J'zargo really says something like "You are saying that because you are losing so badly that you do not even realise that you are doing it."

He has some good lines.

 

Would be sweet if DF had character specific dialogues, but obviously that would be a lot of tedious busy work, and non-vanilla followers would still have to use defaults.

 

Gender specific dialogues are probably more bang for buck, but probably, if it was between that and some new feature, I'd pick the new feature.

So, writing for me is like insanely tough for me. I have put effort into learning to write better like I got my high school English qualification when I was 25ish but it took me a lot of effort and time. I'm told, I'm probably dyslexic.

 

Luckily, I do have skill in problem solving/3d visualisation hence why I know how to script ect and have a decent degree in Science.

 

Either way, the point fixing the errors in my mod is very much appreciated because if I tried to do the same it would of taken days. I'm going to use the translation to replace all the text in my mod btw because it is a million times better written.

 

As for the old style vs new style, I tried to write it in a fun way like the follower is playing games with you. I did try to keep it gender neutral. Either way, I doubt people would of like the old style vs your style because your is better to read lol.

 

Outside of that, to a point this mod is mine because it is my vision and what direction it takes but feedback/technical information does help the mod so to a certain extent I do see that the mod is more than just mine. The best example I could give, is if I deleted the page for the mod I would feel I would be stealing something a lot of people helped me make.