Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Code Serpent]

Do all followers enforce debt, or do only hirelings and housecarls? If it's the former I would recommend an MCM option to whitelist/blacklist certain kinds of followers.

 

Also, do you have to install the game when there aren't any followers with the player? I tried installing it with Jenessa already following, and no new dialogue showed up.

[Reesewow]

5 minutes ago, IronDusk33 said:

Do all followers enforce debt, or do only hirelings and housecarls? If it's the former I would recommend an MCM option to whitelist/blacklist certain kinds of followers.

 

Also, do you have to install the game when there aren't any followers with the player? I tried installing it with Jenessa already following, and no new dialogue showed up.

All followers enforce debt - there is already an MCM menu option to pause the mod whenever you want, so you can just click that if you have a follower with you that you don't think would be charging you for your services.

 

If a follower doesn't trigger the dialogue automatically, there is a debug option that adds a dialogue line to trigger the functions manually.  This also helps if you use custom followers that won't normally start the dialogue.

[Lozeak]

On 25/04/2018 at 9:22 AM, Lupine00 said:

The cursed gauntlets...

 

Is there any plan to make 1H, light armor, and mage oriented equivalents?

 

I looted them but they were never likely to trap me, as my character isn't set up for heavy or 2H.

I tried them on anyway, as I wanted to check the text.

 

 

Are they really supposed to destroy your equipped gear? Seems a little harsh by any standard.

 

 

 

So I added it for fun, the intention is people will equip em and think wtf mod did this/where did it come from! ^^, it's a bit of a easter egg. I have no intention of expanding on it and once you fall for it once you won't again so the removing gear isn't too bad and fits in to the lore of what the gloves are designed for (tricking run away slaves)

 

On 25/04/2018 at 11:03 AM, Lupine00 said:

Spotted a minor bug in MCM:

 

    ElseIf (Option == OID_DebtText)
            SetInfoText("How much you owe")
    ElseIf (Option == OID_WillText)
            SetInfoText("Your willpower lowered when your resistance reaches -1 (via things like rape)")
    ElseIf (Option == OID_DebtText) << Same as above >>
            SetInfoText("Your willpowers life when depleted your willpower will drop by one it effects nothing else")

 

 

The depleted willpower hover-tip text is tested against the wrong option and will never be displayed.

Thx will fix soon

On 25/04/2018 at 11:57 PM, IronDusk33 said:

Do all followers enforce debt, or do only hirelings and housecarls? If it's the former I would recommend an MCM option to whitelist/blacklist certain kinds of followers.

 

Also, do you have to install the game when there aren't any followers with the player? I tried installing it with Jenessa already following, and no new dialogue showed up.

As said can use MCM to Pause the mod or set which follower is enforcer.

 

=============================================

 

Mini Update....

I fixed a bug with the horse not being detected and maybe something else I can't remember.

 

Devious World 

 

So I spent a lot of time getting this up and working (like base scripts (sleep/willpower/MCM/Tick) to be worked on.

I also spent a really long time adding the new inn room (< 3 willpower + Devious Device) basically, you can't bring up a sleep menu with scripts sooooo you need to spawn a bed then activate it then delete the bed.... this road block toook ages and almost made me cheap out on the "bed"

 

What this mod will be ..... Mini Quests, Defeat system, Custom devices, World tweaks. I don't want to reveal too much cause maybe I can't do it but it let's me make stuff not focused on devious followers and is a blank canvas. Feel free to throw ideas in.

 

Why not add this stuff to Devious Followers? cause I think keeping DF light requirement wise has been highly requested so I will honour this plus if Devious world may create script lag/bug/incompatibly so keeping DF safe from this is nice !

 

Also, it's on this mod page cause I don't want to release it till it has enough content so consider this a closed beta for existing fans/followers

[slonez1]

A new version again, uggghhh. I can't save clean my game, but I wonder if I can manually remove the files if I uninstall it?

 

[Reesewow]

18 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

What this mod will be ..... Mini Quests, Defeat system, Custom devices, World tweaks. I don't want to reveal too much cause maybe I can't do it but it let's me make stuff not focused on devious followers and is a blank canvas. Feel free to throw ideas in.

Super excited about this, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun and be a good place for content similar to the "games" in DF, but not necessarily requiring a follower.  Also agree that it is good to keep it separate from DF itself, since I know one of the most common complaints people have about Cursed Loot is that the mod has gotten so large that it is intimidating/does too much when they just wanted one or two features (I don't really share that concern, but I understand it can take some getting used to and trial+error to set up Cursed Loot to match preferences).

 

I think for now my suggestions is basically anything I previously mentioned as a possible game or deal if it doesn't fit well in Devious Followers, such as the boss chest idea. 

[Lozeak]

9 minutes ago, slonez1 said:

A new version again, uggghhh. I can't save clean my game, but I wonder if I can manually remove the files if I uninstall it?

 

 U'll be fine upgrading to 1.15 -> 1.16 that said there is like no new content so maybe not worry about it (the main bug fix is for none English versions of the game anyway)

[Lozeak]

5 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Super excited about this, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun and be a good place for content similar to the "games" in DF, but not necessarily requiring a follower.  Also agree that it is good to keep it separate from DF itself, since I know one of the most common complaints people have about Cursed Loot is that the mod has gotten so large that it is intimidating/does too much when they just wanted one or two features (I don't really share that concern, but I understand it can take some getting used to and trial+error to set up Cursed Loot to match preferences).

 

I think for now my suggestions is basically anything I previously mentioned as a possible game or deal if it doesn't fit well in Devious Followers, such as the boss chest idea. 

 

Cursed loot has a fair amount of script lag if you don't tweak ur papyrus setting and have a heavy load order it will bug out epically. That said with the right settings because the code is so good it's very stable.

[Reesewow]

19 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

 

Cursed loot has a fair amount of script lag if you don't tweak ur papyrus setting and have a heavy load order it will bug out epically. That said with the right settings because the code is so good it's very stable.

Truth, altho I've found Cursed Loot is almost never the cause of issues, but if issues exist is one of the most obvious victims.

 

I did just realize that the requirements for Devious World include ZEP.  That unfortunately probably means I won't be able to use it, as from what I understand it is incompatible with ZaZ 8.0+ which is what Tara seems to still be actively developing and includes the Ultimate Furniture Pack items. 

 

Obviously the masters you choose are up to you, but I hope you might change your mind and find alternatives to mods that have compatibility issues with other similar mods.  If it is included to bring back the crawling animation, I wonder if once this update (https://www.loverslab.com/topic/84513-ft-workshop/?do=findComment&comment=2224423) hits the DD beta it might offer an alternative.

 

I'll definitely still try out Devious World to see your content however, just not on a permanent save.  Slave tats ect sound like great masters for a mod like this, and definitely still see a lot of use in other actively worked on mods like Being a Cow.  I could totally see Devious World type events based on Soul Gem Oven 3 or Milk Maid Economy.

[steelmagpie]

Devious World Alpha 0.02 ..  Of course I had to try it out...

 

Spoiler

Fortunatley I was low willpower and very near Old Hordan Inn so popped on a rubber hood and went inside..  The innkepper text worked fine,, I think, and I paid my 50g for my "room with a view"..  Went outside to enter room and it let me in..  did what it does with clothes then CTD..  Reloaded at the point of exiting inn and tried again... all went to plan I think..  slept .. woke up and am now looking forward to seeing more develope...  Even ZEP behaved itself with FNIS for a change haha..  so looks good.. 

 

One thing of note I didnt have a follower with me at the time so could not test  with them yet..

 

Was also pleased to see it was nicely different to the similar thing the Whiterun brothel has just added for inns..  Choices are always good haha..  and I like the simplicity of the "room with a view"  haha

 

 

Gotta love new toys to play with ...  great idea and plenty of scope for fun with it too

[Lozeak]

32 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Truth, altho I've found Cursed Loot is almost never the cause of issues, but if issues exist is one of the most obvious victims.

 

I did just realize that the requirements for Devious World include ZEP.  That unfortunately probably means I won't be able to use it, as from what I understand it is incompatible with ZaZ 8.0+ which is what Tara seems to still be actively developing and includes the Ultimate Furniture Pack items. 

 

Obviously the masters you choose are up to you, but I hope you might change your mind and find alternatives to mods that have compatibility issues with other similar mods.  If it is included to bring back the crawling animation, I wonder if once this update (https://www.loverslab.com/topic/84513-ft-workshop/?do=findComment&comment=2224423) hits the DD beta it might offer an alternative.

 

I'll definitely still try out Devious World to see your content however, just not on a permanent save.

DCL on it's own is fine but as script lag increases it's and other mod start stalling with default settings.

 

I use ZaZ 8.0 and ZEP 1.08 never had issues, I think the incompatibilities have been worked out. Maybe the mod won't need ZEP I'll think about it anyway. (try cleaning masters in TES5). Edit : Nevermind first thing I added uses it /shrug.

 

 

[Reesewow]

2 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I use ZaZ 8.0 and ZEP 1.08 never had issues, I think the incompatibilities have been worked out. Maybe the mod won't need ZEP I'll think about it anyway. (try cleaning masters in TES5)

It has been awhile but I think the issues were with ZaZ 8.0Plus (https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/5211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/), but I could be wrong.  I'll certainly try the master cleaning since that is what I used to do with the old Devious Followers versions anyway and it worked really well.  Either way thanks for the update and looking forward to what you do with a blank canvas!

 

[qawsedrftg765]

HeyHey,

 

With the 'bound in cities' deal. When the follower removes your items they are classified as stealing when you pick them up.

 

Is that intentional? If so dick-move. 

 

 

[steelmagpie]

Into the ZEP debate again I fall...  hee hee..  I have just rolled back to ZAP8 from ZAP8+ due to a minor thing in Whiterun Brothel mod (just a item of bondage with slightly different version numbers in ZAP8+ causing invisible body)  I used to have the FNIS problems linked to ZEP and ZAP8+ but with ZAP8 it is fine...  Personaly I would say unless you have a mod the uses or needs the Extra's in ZAP8+ a simple roll back to ZAP8 and ZEP (1.08) doesn't change very much but does make Devious World work..  

 

If in the future T'ara developes only the + version of ZAP then I think having two verions of ZAP8 would have been a bad choice on their part..  Either develope both the same or revert to one to save these issues..  

[Reesewow]

57 minutes ago, steelmagpie said:

Into the ZEP debate again I fall...  hee hee..  I have just rolled back to ZAP8 from ZAP8+ due to a minor thing in Whiterun Brothel mod (just a item of bondage with slightly different version numbers in ZAP8+ causing invisible body)  I used to have the FNIS problems linked to ZEP and ZAP8+ but with ZAP8 it is fine...  Personaly I would say unless you have a mod the uses or needs the Extra's in ZAP8+ a simple roll back to ZAP8 and ZEP (1.08) doesn't change very much but does make Devious World work..  

 

If in the future T'ara developes only the + version of ZAP then I think having two verions of ZAP8 would have been a bad choice on their part..  Either develope both the same or revert to one to save these issues..  

What exactly is the FNIS issue between ZEP and ZAP 8.0+?  I decided to take the opportunity to inspect the mods with TES5Edit and honestly don't see much that screams conflict, as ZEP mostly seems to add tags to the original ZAP 7 and the Heretical items, along with some new stuff like sounds.  I didn't seem to have an issue loading the two up together in game, and I don't see any errors in FNIS itself.  Even the massive ZBF testzone seems to work fine, as well as the handful of random furniture I tried out.

 

The main issue I'd have with downgrading is that it seems pretty safe to assume that 8.0 won't be developed further, and future mods are very likely to require 8.0+ for the wider range of items.  Mostly hoping to avoid incompatibilities between some of my current favorite mods and future possible favorite mods due to one requiring ZAP 8.0+ and the other requiring ZAP 7 or 8 due to ZEP. 

 

Devious World right now definitely depends on ZEP tho, it uses items and sounds added by ZEP.  So unless those could be swapped out for ZAP 8.0 or 8.0+ items or the conflict isn't that bad, us users would have to make a choice.    Obviously not really Lozeak's problem if there is stuff available in ZEP that he wants to use if it isn't available elsewhere.

 

 

Anyway, that aside, Devious World feedback!

 

- Compatibility note:  Devious World should be loaded after Relationship Dialogue Overhaul as RDO over-writes some of Devious World's dialogues.

- I really like the fact that Devious World builds off of your character's DF willpower - I can see these mods working so well together with that common set of globals and the world starting to react to the characters low willpower/submissiveness 

- the content itself seems to work fine, no problems with it the few times I tried it.  If it doesn't already, I'd vote that sleeping in this way should possibly give you less willpower back than paying the 500 g or using a player home.

 

Thanks again and looking forward to what you do with this.

 

[steelmagpie]

5 hours ago, Reesewow said:

What exactly is the FNIS issue between ZEP and ZAP 8.0+? 

 

 As best as i can remember ZEP used to stop FNIS mid generation due to a duplication of a file or something (really can't remeber the wording sorry). it may have been fixed now but as I had already rolled back to ZAP8 I cannot say for sure as this is the first time I have used ZEP since..  Wish I could help more .

[Reesewow]

45 minutes ago, steelmagpie said:

 As best as i can remember ZEP used to stop FNIS mid generation due to a duplication of a file or something (really can't remeber the wording sorry). it may have been fixed now but as I had already rolled back to ZAP8 I cannot say for sure as this is the first time I have used ZEP since..  Wish I could help more .

Well, if it was something as blatant as FNIS not completing then I may have been barking up the wrong tree on it being incompatible, at least between ZEP 1.08 (without TUFP) and ZAP 8.0Plus.  I had no such problems testing Devious World.  If that is the case, then I don't particularly see it being a problem anymore going forward. 

 

Would have to get others to try it out to confirm of course.

[Dibellor]

In the Screenshots from the snow cave are some meters visible in the top right corner.

Can you tell me what they are?

[slonez1]

15 hours ago, Lozeak said:

 U'll be fine upgrading to 1.15 -> 1.16 that said there is like no new content so maybe not worry about it (the main bug fix is for none English versions of the game anyway)

I was upgrading from .97b... I forgot Fallhrim Tools can bypass my mega script save file. I'm trying it tonight.  The save cleaner always crashes on my saves.

 

[slonez1]

7 minutes ago, Dibellor said:

In the Screenshots from the snow cave are some meters visible in the top right corner.

Can you tell me what they are?

Looks like MiniNeeds

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/88434

[Dibellor]

2 minutes ago, slonez1 said:

Looks like MiniNeeds

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/88434

thx

[Guest]

Looks fun.

**Sigh**

It's too bad I don't play female characters.

There really are no options for male PCs being subjected to female NPCs in any kind of progression domination/slavery based content.

[Rhonen5]

 

4 hours ago, bishlapped said:

Looks fun.

**Sigh**

It's too bad I don't play female characters.

There really are no options for male PCs being subjected to female NPCs in any kind of progression domination/slavery based content.

i feel yea, i would also want to see more of that kind of content.. sadly not many mod creators that are into that kink and even if its just to add a few more dialogs for males or to use the same dialogs for both genders without putting any gender related text in the dialogs     Then again there are not so many femdom sex animations running around so its maybe the reason aswel

[Rhonen5]

Do Extensible Follower Framework work with this and.. what happens if we have more then 1 follower? dept to both or it just wont work ? .. its the first question that falls to mind lol

[thefakebobdole]

17 minutes ago, Rhonen5 said:

Do Extensible Follower Framework work with this and.. what happens if we have more then 1 follower? dept to both or it just wont work ? .. its the first question that falls to mind lol

I'm curious also, whats the best multi follower mod for this?

 

I was using Extensible Follower Framework v4. It seemed to work out well for the most part. But it felt like my followers were "soft resetting" often. By that I mean, they seemed to say the initiating dialogue for Devious Followers very often. Barring that, two followers worked well. But I couldn't connect more then 2 at the same time to Devious Followers.

 

I'm also using Deviously Enslaved +alot of devious stuff... Not sure if its important. Maybe things were wonky due to script lag.

[Reesewow]

25 minutes ago, Rhonen5 said:

 

i feel yea, i would also want to see more of that kind of content.. sadly not many mod creators that are into that kink and even if its just to add a few more dialogs for males or to use the same dialogs for both genders without putting any gender related text in the dialogs     Then again there are not so many femdom sex animations running around so its maybe the reason aswel

It isn't just a question of dialogues for bondage mods like this - the Devious Devices Framework the mod depends on doesn't offer official male support either, so all of the situations/events related to having DD items equipped may break if the PC was male.  There was some unofficial male support in the past, but I believe it is now extremely outdated and likely not compatible with the latest versions of DD mods.

17 minutes ago, Rhonen5 said:

Do Extensible Follower Framework work with this and.. what happens if we have more then 1 follower? dept to both or it just wont work ? .. its the first question that falls to mind lol

I use EFF and it seems to work just fine with this mod - I load Devious Followers before EFFDialogue.esp.  Only one follower at any give time will be the "Devious" follower and have the dialogues, but there is an MCM menu option where you can have it cost the player more to have multiple followers instead of just one.