Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[El_Duderino]

43 minutes ago, thefakebobdole said:

1 hour ago, Rhonen5 said:

Do Extensible Follower Framework work with this and.. what happens if we have more then 1 follower? dept to both or it just wont work ? .. its the first question that falls to mind lol

I'm curious also, whats the best multi follower mod for this?

I can echo @Reesewow's comment regarding EFF though in my case EFF was higher on the load order (but that's just because I had installed DF during the playthrough and could only safely add it to the end of the load order). I've been using it and Devious Followers (one of the earlier 1.0x versions) together just fine, even with three followers in tow.*

 

Generally speaking, for a SL-mod heavy playthrough with several followers, I'd highly recommend EFF. Never had an issue with it when using SL mods that include followers, be it stuff like Cursed Loot or Reward your Followers.

 

(*Though given the nature of this very mod here, it was very soon the other way around and one of them had me in tow. Oh well.)

[InyBisInsulate]

You literally can't pay them early-game and can fill their holes with gold dubloons at late-game! Just seems off a bit, the mechanics are top-notch tho!

[Brommer]

I tried out the devious world content because is sounds like a nice a addition. But is there any content apart from the dialogue? The innkeeper tells me to go outside for the cage, but nothing is there. Do I need to be at a particular inn? I tried Solitude and Morthal so far.

[Lozeak]

7 hours ago, slonez1 said:

I was upgrading from .97b... I forgot Fallhrim Tools can bypass my mega script save file. I'm trying it tonight.  The save cleaner always crashes on my saves.

 

I think your gonna struggle upgrading anything <1.00 and 1.1 had some stuff that would have issues with upgrading. if you can clean the scripts you might be lucky.

6 hours ago, bishlapped said:

Looks fun.

**Sigh**

It's too bad I don't play female characters.

There really are no options for male PCs being subjected to female NPCs in any kind of progression domination/slavery based content.

The issue is DD resource is too good not to use and it's female only maybe someone can continue Devious Devices for him which could happen one day then my mod would work with it.

 

8 minutes ago, InyBisInsulate said:

You literally can't pay them early-game and can fill their holes with gold dubloons at late-game! Just seems off a bit, the mechanics are top-notch tho!

Yea, working out MCM settings is hard, like my is tunes well enough with DCL that it's not too bad. I have planning on things in Devious World that target high gold players! 

 

6 minutes ago, Brommer said:

I tried out the devious world content because is sounds like a nice a addition. But is there any content apart from the dialogue? The innkeeper tells me to go outside for the cage, but nothing is there. Do I need to be at a particular inn? I tried Solitude and Morthal so far.

There should be a cage outside every inn in the game unless you have a mod that changes citys, pretty sure I added the cage to every inn in skyrim.

[Reesewow]

18 minutes ago, InyBisInsulate said:

You literally can't pay them early-game and can fill their holes with gold dubloons at late-game! Just seems off a bit, the mechanics are top-notch tho!

Uh, there is an MCM menu that lets you customize pretty much every numerical value in the mod.  My follower costs me 1000g a day give or take, but they could just as easily cost 50g a day.

 

Edit: Ninja'd - Lozeak on the case.

[Brommer]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

I think your gonna struggle upgrading anything <1.00 and 1.1 had some stuff that would have issues with upgrading. if you can clean the scripts you might be lucky.

The issue is DD resource is too good not to use and it's female only maybe someone can continue Devious Devices for him which could happen one day then my mod would work with it.

 

Yea, working out MCM settings is hard, like my is tunes well enough with DCL that it's not too bad. I have planning on things in Devious World that target high gold players! 

 

There should be a cage outside every inn in the game unless you have a mod that changes citys, pretty sure I added the cage to every inn in skyrim.

I really tried looking everywhere, no sign of any cage. Is it a big cage with a moving door or a ZaZ type cage? If it's the latter it might be a problem with me using the wrong ZaZ or ZEP version.

 

Edit: Ok, I figured it out myself, it was the wrong ZEP version.

[valcon767]

22 minutes ago, Brommer said:

I really tried looking everywhere, no sign of any cage. Is it a big cage with a moving door or a ZaZ type cage? If it's the latter it might be a problem with me using the wrong ZaZ or ZEP version.

ZAZ style cage.

you need ZAZ 8.0 (i am using 8.0+ without any problems as far as i can tell)

 

usage report for Devious World (alpha test)

1 possible bug found at this time

 

you can rent a "room with a view" through extra dialogue when speaking to Innkeepers (pay attention to what they say - it's IMPORTANT)

; this dialogue will not show up unless you Willpower is low enough and you must be visibly bound (as far as i have found)

you activate the cage outside to sleep

the cage uses it's "special" function

1 - if you activate the cage without renting it from the Innkeeper it will do it's "special" function without triggering the actual sleep

; you have been WARNED

 

that is all that i have found the mod to do (at this time).

 

@Lozeak

the Devious World mod works very well in my testing, one possible bug (noted above).

wishlist for that micro mod (Devious World) would be to have it actually replace the default dialogue to rent a room when the PC meets

the requirements to have the dialogue show up.

 

edit 

@Reesewow

sleeping this way does give a lesser gain to Willpower already due to being bound, but i do agree that if you manage to have

the dialogue show up while not bound it should give a lesser amount of Willpower back than sleeping somewhere else.

 

[Lupine00]

Personally, I cannot run Devious World at all.

 

I have four different downloads of the extension pack, two of which are vaguely named by the author, so I'm not 100% sure that the one I'm installing is really the one that DW depends on.

Zaz 8.0 and Devious Extension 1.08  will not FNIS for me. They are not compatible files.

Either that or they aren't compatible with something else rather common, like DCL or FB animation pack?

 

The front-page write up on Zaz-8 seems to suggest they are not compatible and that 8 has the extensions built-in, but in typical T.ara style there's a lot of puffs about new animations and API calls but very little about what versions work with that, or what files you really need, or which patches apply.

 

The error says: Same Alternate Animation prefix >zbx< used by DIFFERENT mods !!!!!

 

DW has them both as masters, so I guess there is some different file version I need of DE that I do not have?

My current files are:

• Zaz Animation Pack UNP V.8.0.[2017.11.19].7z   (374,646,241 bytes)
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z   (15,118,425 bytes)
• Heretical Resources v1.51.7z   (6,735,799 bytes)

 

Can somebody that made this work post the exact file versions (and maybe even MD5 hashes) for the downloads?

Or do I have to manually hack the animation files to remove the clash?

[Lozeak]

4 hours ago, valcon767 said:

ZAZ style cage.

you need ZAZ 8.0 (i am using 8.0+ without any problems as far as i can tell)

 

usage report for Devious World (alpha test)

1 possible bug found at this time

 

you can rent a "room with a view" through extra dialogue when speaking to Innkeepers (pay attention to what they say - it's IMPORTANT)

; this dialogue will not show up unless you Willpower is low enough and you must be visibly bound (as far as i have found)

you activate the cage outside to sleep

the cage uses it's "special" function

1 - if you activate the cage without renting it from the Innkeeper it will do it's "special" function without triggering the actual sleep

; you have been WARNED

 

that is all that i have found the mod to do (at this time).

 

@Lozeak

the Devious World mod works very well in my testing, one possible bug (noted above).

wishlist for that micro mod (Devious World) would be to have it actually replace the default dialogue to rent a room when the PC meets

the requirements to have the dialogue show up.

 

edit 

@Reesewow

sleeping this way does give a lesser gain to Willpower already due to being bound, but i do agree that if you manage to have

the dialogue show up while not bound it should give a lesser amount of Willpower back than sleeping somewhere else.

 

So yea, I intended it to do that you are warned by the inn keeper outside of that curiosity killed the cat is the best way to put it lol. 

 

Willpower wise, hmm yea would make sense but since you might need to recover willpower gameplay wise I don't want to reduce the only way (atm maybe) to recover it.

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Personally, I cannot run Devious World at all.

 

I have four different downloads of the extension pack, two of which are vaguely named by the author, so I'm not 100% sure that the one I'm installing is really the one that DW depends on.

Zaz 8.0 and Devious Extension 1.08  will not FNIS for me. They are not compatible files.

Either that or they aren't compatible with something else rather common, like DCL or FB animation pack?

 

The front-page write up on Zaz-8 seems to suggest they are not compatible and that 8 has the extensions built-in, but in typical T.ara style there's a lot of puffs about new animations and API calls but very little about what versions work with that, or what files you really need, or which patches apply.

 

The error says: Same Alternate Animation prefix >zbx< used by DIFFERENT mods !!!!!

 

DW has them both as masters, so I guess there is some different file version I need of DE that I do not have?

My current files are:

• Zaz Animation Pack UNP V.8.0.[2017.11.19].7z   (374,646,241 bytes)
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z   (15,118,425 bytes)
• Heretical Resources v1.51.7z   (6,735,799 bytes)

 

Can somebody that made this work post the exact file versions (and maybe even MD5 hashes) for the downloads?

Or do I have to manually hack the animation files to remove the clash?

Those are the versions I have installed. No problems. Long time I think I had that problem or I helped someone that had that problem it has to do with having more than one version installed or tufp installed as well. I forget when I get time I'll look into it.

[Lupine00]

Possible CTD issue with A Daedra's Best Friend quest - Barbas the dog, and Clavicus Vile.

 

At first, starting the quest causes your DF follower to start behaving a little oddly, and they seem to become reluctant to fight for several minutes. This seems to clear once Barbas first engages in a fight (could be an issue with vanilla followers).

 

More importantly, in Haemar's Shame, when you have to click on the statue of Clavicus Vile to talk to him, clicking causes an instant CTD.

I found this crash to be highly  reproducible. It happened five times out of five for me. 

 

If you dismiss your DF follower, there is no crash, and the Clavicus statue begins its dialogue as expected.

[Lupine00]

45 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

Those are the versions I have installed. No problems. Long time I think I had that problem or I helped someone that had that problem it has to do with having more than one version installed or tufp installed as well. I forget when I get time I'll look into it.

I don't have TUFP installed, or a different version of Zaz. I'm in MO, so it's pretty obvious which Zaz I have, it can't be contaminated from some old install.

I don't believe Zaz 8 requires, or is compatible with TUFP, so it's not in.

 

I guess it's some other mod, but it's hard to guess which. The only things I have with restraints are DCL 6.3 and Parasites.

I have SLAP, plus two SLAL animation packs: Leito and FB.

 

Or could it maybe be a DF version mismatch? I had the pre-non-English horse fix version, not the absolute latest.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Personally, I cannot run Devious World at all.

 

I have four different downloads of the extension pack, two of which are vaguely named by the author, so I'm not 100% sure that the one I'm installing is really the one that DW depends on.

Zaz 8.0 and Devious Extension 1.08  will not FNIS for me. They are not compatible files.

Either that or they aren't compatible with something else rather common, like DCL or FB animation pack?

 

The front-page write up on Zaz-8 seems to suggest they are not compatible and that 8 has the extensions built-in, but in typical T.ara style there's a lot of puffs about new animations and API calls but very little about what versions work with that, or what files you really need, or which patches apply.

 

The error says: Same Alternate Animation prefix >zbx< used by DIFFERENT mods !!!!!

 

DW has them both as masters, so I guess there is some different file version I need of DE that I do not have?

My current files are:

• Zaz Animation Pack UNP V.8.0.[2017.11.19].7z   (374,646,241 bytes)
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z   (15,118,425 bytes)
• Heretical Resources v1.51.7z   (6,735,799 bytes)

 

Can somebody that made this work post the exact file versions (and maybe even MD5 hashes) for the downloads?

Or do I have to manually hack the animation files to remove the clash?

The files I ran when I tested and had no obvious conflicts/FNIS issues were:

• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+.7z  (599,897,990 bytes)
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z (same size as yours)
• Heretical Resources 1.51 (size irrelevant as I repacked it to not duplicate some assets installed by other mods)

It does sound like the incompatibility may very well be a third party mod interfering with ZEP?  I don't see how Lozeak could run ZAP 8 with ZEP, and I can run ZAP 8.0+ with ZEP and there still be a hard incompatibility between them by themselves.  I use an old version of NMM as my mod manager.

 

21 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Possible issue with A Daedra's Best Friend quest - Barbas the dog, and Clavicus Vile.

 

At first, starting the quest causes your DF follower to start behaving a little oddly, and they seem to become reluctant to fight for several minutes. This seems to clear once Barbas first engages in a fight (could be an issue with vanilla followers).

 

More importantly,, in Haemar's Shame, when you have to click on the statue of Clavicus Vile to talk to him, clicking causes an instant CTD.

I found this crash to be highly  reproducible. It happened five times out of five for me. 

 

If you dismiss your DF follower, there is no crash, and the Clavicus statue begins its dialogue as expected.

I don't think the first part is necessarily due to DF - but the statue CTD is from DF.  The other work-around for this problem is to use the "Pause" function when you need to talk to a statue (I believe the LAL Mara statue and the Augur of Dunlain also cause this issue).  Pausing the quests keeps your followers debt status ect so you can resume right after.

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

So yea, I intended it to do that you are warned by the inn keeper outside of that curiosity killed the cat is the best way to put it lol. 

 

Willpower wise, hmm yea would make sense but since you might need to recover willpower gameplay wise I don't want to reduce the only way (atm maybe) to recover it.

Heh, yea you won't make that mistake more than once.  I'm not sure it is a big deal if you don't mind the occasional "bug" report when it acts as a bit of a noob trap.

 

True that for some players in some situations a 50g cage nap may be the only thing they can afford if they don't have access to a player home or random bandit bedroll.  Perhaps a better idea is that sleeping in the cage could always be counted as "restrained" sleeping - even if you don't have any devices on.  The main reason I brought it up is that when I tested it on my character with 2 willpower but no devices, sleeping like a slave in a cage still gave her a big bump of willpower up to level 5 or so (because she was hectically "device free").

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

The files I ran when I tested and had no obvious conflicts/FNIS issues were:

• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+.7z  (599,897,990 bytes)
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z (same size as yours)
• Heretical Resources 1.51 (size irrelevant as I repacked it to not duplicate some assets installed by other mods)

Knowing this is enough. At least I know where to fault find. Before, I wasn't sure if I had the right ZEP.

 

Will Zaz 8+ let you do away with ZEP? I think it does, doesn't it?

[Reesewow]

8 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Knowing this is enough. At least I know where to fault find. Before, I wasn't sure if I had the right ZEP.

 

Will Zaz 8+ let you do away with ZEP? I think it does, doesn't it?

Not sure what you mean by do away with ZEP?  ZEP has some unique scripts and sounds that are already being used by the Devious World alpha.  ZEP AFAIK doesn't really have anything to do with Tara's versions of ZAP, other than they both use the older ZAP 6/7 mod as a base. 

[Diziet]

9 hours ago, InyBisInsulate said:

You literally can't pay them early-game and can fill their holes with gold dubloons at late-game! Just seems off a bit, the mechanics are top-notch tho!

I'm using three mods to make it harder to make gold:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/49496

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13248

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34612

 

There are other mods than these, so you might want to shop around, but believe me, depending on the settings you choose for these mods, in combination with the DF MCM settings, you'll be struggling to pay your follower.

[deviant51]

Is it just me or are the follower quests like: straightjacket, tied up when sleeping with gag and the pony quest bugged out?

since the new update I have this problem:
 

pony quest:

when the follower trips you over everything goes normal, but when I talk with them they give me the end dialogue of the tied up when sleeping with a gag quest.

gag sleeping at inn
problem 1: this also works in the heartfire hearthfire lakeview manor. (I had a steward and a diffrent follower when this happened) (not a big deal because you can just reload the autosave from before the sleep.
problem 2: when completing the quest, either by following the quest of refusing and having the debt added, the follower dialoge turns into normal follower dialogue with some Devious followers dialogue. but you can't pay your follower and weird things happen like some Devious followers dialogue options showing up 2 or 3 times.

blindfold straightjacket
same as problem 2 above.

If it is just me, someone please help

 

Load order:

GameMode=Skyrim

Skyrim.esm=1
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iActivate.esp=1
paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp=1
pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp=1
R18Pn - Argent Iron Armor.esp=1
DD_Helpers.esp=1
GattiBondage0.esp=1
iHUD.esp=1
Better Vampires.esp=1
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp=1
SexLabControllerAsVibrator.esp=1

 

 

[BigOnes69]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Knowing this is enough. At least I know where to fault find. Before, I wasn't sure if I had the right ZEP.

 

Will Zaz 8+ let you do away with ZEP? I think it does, doesn't it?

Here is what it says.

ZEP (Zaz Extension Pack) may not be compatible with this mod

and If  ZEP (Zaz Extension Pack) Will be Installed After This Mod,

ZAP 8.0 + May Not Work Anymore!!!

 

Sounds like you have to load ZEP before ZAZ 8+ so that ZAZ 8+ over writes it. Or in MOd organizer put ZEP higher in load panel window on the left.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Not sure what you mean by do away with ZEP?

I'll clarify. I thought it was clear, but I guess not. I mean, that the functionality of ZEP was rolled into 8+, and that there is no 8+ compatible ZEP because there is no need for it any more.

 

Spoiler

At least, that's how it reads when I read there will be no further releases of ZEP; and that (I quote) "One major benefit of ZEP is to unify keywords and mechanics for ZAP and TUFP." 

 

At the very least, it does not clearly say on the front page of ZEP what versions of Zaz each file works with. You'd think this was the most basic essential information? No. Apparently not. We're supposed to just know, or read a rambling forum that keeps being shut down, taken away or moved without so much as a redirect.

 

But reading between the lines, I can't see what might be in ZEP that isn't in Zaz 8+. Isn't the goal of Zaz 8+ to clear up this tangle of mods and version dependencies and give us one mod we need to install to get to something that is further advanced than Zaz + TUFP + ZEP were?

 

And surely one of the goals of Zaz 8+ is to do away with TUFP and unify keywords? Sounds like there's a bit of overlap there if ZEP isn't being/hasn't been rolled into Zaz.

 

But hey, sudden announcements coming out of an impenetrable fog... That's how the T.ara train rolls over you. T.ara is doing a lot, many great things, but you don't know where you'll be tomorrow. Is ZEP defunct? We don't know. Someone tell me please. Is Zaz 8 a total replacement for Zaz 7 + TUFP? Probably? Some people say it's not completely compatible. Is Zaz 8+ really fully reverse compatible with Zaz 7? Some people say otherwise. Would you genuinely want to be fully reverse compatible with all the deep baked-in bugs of Zaz 7? I wouldn't.

 

Let's go back to this:

ZEP (Zaz Extension Pack) may not be compatible with this mod

and If  ZEP (Zaz Extension Pack) Will be Installed After This Mod,

ZAP 8.0 + May Not Work Anymore!!!

This is basically hedging. It's as if T.ara doesn't even know what will happen if you install Zaz8+ (which needs Zaz (7 or 8) as a master) over the top of an old Zaz + ZEP configuration. Well what person would do that anyway? Nobody using MO would do it, it sounds insane.

 

Are we really supposed to overlay Zaz 8 + ZEP + Zaz 8+ ?? This sounds crazy.

Are we supposed to install ZEP and then install Zaz 8+ over the top of it?

 

But the first line says flat out that they might not be compatible at all.

 

Why not say what we're supposed to do instead of what may not work? It's almost as if somebody besides me has no idea WTF is going on here ... somebody who ought to know.

 

Let's look harder. ZEP 2017-03-14 is older than Zaz 8 2017-11-15 (not even 8+), and conflicts with it. From this we might conclude that Zaz 8 should override ZEP, and be installed after (even though it is technically the 'master'). MO throws a fit at this, but it seems the right way around to install them. If you want your MO not to scream at you, you need to hand merge them first. Guidance from T.ara on this issue? Hard to find, unless you count the hedge-maze quoted above.

 

Either way, I disabled EVERYTHING in my MO profile except SexLab, DD4, ZEP and Zaz 8 (even disabled DCL) and guess what? Still the same error from FNIS about dual use of the Zbx prefix!

 

I'm starting to suspect that the only way you make ZEP and Zaz 8 work together is to have some franken-install-mash-up of Zaz 7, TUFP, 8 and ZEP that results from getting lucky installing, overriding and uninstalling, and re-installing in NMM.

 

Anyone who has a clean MO solution to this, please let me know.

 

(In early version of this, I implied that T.ara was responsible for saying there would be no future ZEP; I was referring to a post that *someone* made about keyword updates and ZEP, that I (mis?)remembered as T.ara, but honestly, it could have been anyone; they spoke authoratively on the topic as if it were a certainty. On reflection it could just have been speculative nonsense).

 

Error aside, both ZEP, Zaz 8 and 8+ are all trying to update keywords on much the same items and add similar things, the overlap is enormous.

 

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I'll clarify. I thought it was clear, but I guess not. I mean, that the functionality of ZEP was rolled into 8+, and that there is no 8+ compatible ZEP because there is no need for it any more.

 

I think I know where your main confusion may be coming from - Zaz Extension Pack is NOT T.ara's mod.  It is Zaira's mod and likely was part of plans to expand Maria Eden.  I don't believe there was ever an intention to roll ZEP functionality into ZAP 8.0+ since it isn't T.ara's mod or ideas in the first place.  That is likely why the language is "may" not work - it is a different mod author's work.

 

A lot of these questions would possibly be better answered in the ZAP 8.0+ thread since the only one who can really answer them are T.ara or Zaira, I don't follow ZAP development that closely.  The important info I can offer is that I loaded ZEP after ZAP 8.0+, I've never had TUFP installed in my game or ZAP 8, and I'm careful that my installs are not "franken-install-mashups".  TES5Edit checking only shows mild chance to conflict (ZEP adding a bunch of new tags to ZAP items mainly).  That FNIS error sounds like a straight-up filename conflict of some sort, perhaps unique to Mod Organizer and virtual file systems.  Either way, I don't think the Devious Followers thread is the right venue for deep-diving on ZEP/ZAP install issues.

 

Fore may also be able to offer some guidance to the issue if you ask about how to resolve the error, I've seen him troubleshooting every once in awhile. 

 

As to compatibility, I have yet to see any bugs at all using ZAP 8.0+ in terms of legacy content.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

ES5Edit checking only shows mild chance to conflict (ZEP adding a bunch of new tags to ZAP items mainly).  That FNIS error sounds like a straight-up filename conflict of some sort, perhaps unique to Mod Organizer and virtual file systems.

I won't drag up that off topic stuff, which I hid away in a spoiler box anyway, but the following is directly relevant to getting a working LO for Devious World...

 

As I was well aware from reading the FNIS error, the problem was a conflict in a FNIS_.txt animation list file.

I could open the files and see the conflict without any trouble; this was pretty much the first thing I did.

One puzzle was which of the clearly bogus ZAP animation list entries (or entire files) I could edit, or delete entirely.

The other puzzle was how anyone could have those conflicting files work, because they don't have the same name, or path, they don't overwrite each other, but they do contain conflicting FNIS data that cannot be FNIS'd.

 

The only way you would not have the conflicting files in NMM is if NMM is not installing all the FNIS_.txt files due to a difference in its FOMOD handling.

That's a nice theory, but it probably isn't the case.

 

If you have those files, you ought to see the exact same bug, because they conflict for sure.

I'll take it as a given that the ZEP versions are needed, even though ZEP is a lot older ... you'll see why when you read further.

 

In 8+ they are in a sub-folder called old_lists. My FNIS finds the lists in the sub-folders, and fails, because they are incompatible with the ZEP animation list.

Installing 8+ and deleting the old_lists folders, (which as from what I can see, are toxic to ZEP) gave me a successful FNIS update - but as for whether that is providing all the animations I need, would require more detailed examination of the animation lists, or some serious play testing I haven't done yet.

 

However, there are two posters saying that it worked for them with Zaz 8 (not 8+). This threw me off initially, as it implies the conflict should have been resolved by some overwrite somewhere, somehow. But those files don't overwrite each other, so the only answer I can think of is that there is some patch for either ZEP or Zaz 8 (not plus) that fixed the issue.

 

In 8, the conflicting animation list file is not hidden away in a sub-folder; it's the main animation list for Zaz8. There's no FOMOD based story that can explain that one away.

I would guess that for 8 to work with ZEP, there would need to be some hand-edits of that file, or as mooted above, a patch that those who have a working version have, and I don't have, and that they have forgotten they installed.

 

NMM would need to be doing something very special with FNIS_*.txt files to fix it, and I don't think that's remotely likely.

So either it was fixed by hand, or patched, but it can't work in a clean unmodified install of only those two mods (ZEP and Zaz 8 not plus). It simply cannot.

[Reesewow]

49 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

 

If you have those files, you ought to see the exact same bug, because they conflict for sure.

 

Best of luck figuring it out, think the only thing I could help with is confirming whether or not my install of 8+ and ZEP contains these files or not without breaking FNIS.  If you list them and their file paths I will check next time I can.

[valcon767]

 

@Reesewow and @Lupine00 

 

i am not trying to add confusion to this issue, but i found the Devious World mod a day or 2 ago.

due to not being sure that the versions of its requirements were the most recent i re-downloaded them to be safe.

ZEP - 1.08 (not the TUFP version) https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3398-zazextensionpack/

ZAZ 8.0 (i just dumped the Cosio bodyslide into it) https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/4688-zaz-animation-pack-v-80-2017-11-15/

ZAZ 8.0+  https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/5211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/

 

i do use Cosio (CBBE) not UUNP though, i am not sure if that makes any difference (it should not for FNIS)

 

ran FNIS (no warnings at all) - FNIS 7.0XXL

FNIS run 04 28 2018.txt

 

as you can see in the picture above i use MO.  the important part is circled in green to make it easier to find.

the last time i tried to use ZEP with ZAZ 8.0 or 8.0+ i had the same FNIS error Lupine is running into.

what makes this strange is that these are fresh installs (with no editing by me other than just dumping the Cosio Bodyslide into ZAZ 8.0)

this time i do not have any FNIS issues.  the only difference between the 2 times is that i downloaded the ZAZ and ZEP stuff all over again.

in the past i found out through a combination of trial and error and a post by someone else (i forget who) that to get ZAZ 8.0 (or 8.0+) to work with ZEP

load order (in MO for me) was critical.   wrong order and stuff just did not work.  the only order that i found that worked for me was to have both 

left pane and right pane match exactly for these mods and they had to be in a specific order:

 

Sexlab

ZAZ Animation Pack (whichever version i wanted to use)

Sexlab Aroused

Heretical Resources

Devious Devices Assets

ZEP 1.08

 

any other order and i ran into stuff not working.

 

i honestly have no clue why it works for me and is not working for Lupine.

 

hopefully this information helps to (at least) find why it is not working correctly for Lupine.

 

[Reesewow]

58 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

ran FNIS (no warnings at all) - FNIS 7.0XXL

Perhaps we are going about this wrong - I am also using FNIS 7.0XXL and have no issues.  It is very possible it is something dependent on FNIS version, if it turns out @Lupine00 is using a different version.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Perhaps we are going about this wrong - I am also using FNIS 7.0XXL and have no issues.  It is very possible it is something dependent on FNIS version, if it turns out @Lupine00 is using a different version.

It's not a FNIS version issue. I tried with 7.0 and then with the new 7.4.4 and both report the same thing.

Also, looking at the installs, and the files that cause it, there is no load ordering fix you can make that will ever resolve this problem. Read on.

 

So, it may be that some updated upload of one of the packages fixed this, by removing a file, or the reverse, it was broken recently.

That's why I suggested posting MD5 hashes for the "working" distributions.

 

I need to post the file paths and download hashes so you can see, but I just have time to write this now. I'll update this post later.

 

The problem line is:

AAprefix zbx

which is duplicated in different mods within my "C:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Skyrim\ModOrganizer\mods\"

 

A search of my entire MO mods tree (not all are installed in any one profile) reveals it appears in the following FNIS_*.txt file paths:

• Tara-UltimateFurniturePack.PatchTo.V.1.3\fnis und behavior (keine neuen animationen dazugekommen)\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_List.txt
• TaraUltimateFurniturePack-v1-20\meshes\actors\character\animations\TaraFurniturePack\FNIS_TaraFurniturePack_Listx.txt
• ZazAnimationPack 8\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_List.txt
• ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-20170314-211511\meshes\actors\character\animations\ZazExtensionPack\FNIS_ZazExtensionPack_List.txt
• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\old lists\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_ListDOWNCOMPATIBLE.txt
• ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack\old lists\FNIS_ZaZAnimationPack_Listlatest.txt

 

Here are some MD5 hashes from fciv.exe

 

• 254877957acc1f0451ba1c1cc370b1ad zaz animation pack unp v.8.0.[2017.11.19].7z
• d8fe7bf56be660cbbc8dd2a93e22d1cc zaz animation pack+ uunp hdt v.8.0+.7z
• 70545f2675d9215acbcd96ab7dbc5cff zazextensionpack-v1-08-20170314-211511.7z

 

Now, we can set aside the TUFP ones, as TUFP isn't in my profile - but it's interesting, as we can see this prefix was used in TUFP and patched in TUFP.

You might think that FNIS only reads FNIS_*_List.txt files as animation lists, but apparently it's a bit more generous than that, and picks up anything starting with FNIS_* - I should imagine the FNIS documents are pretty explicit on what it reads, and I haven't had time to look there yet either, but I know from the errors that it gets into those files.

 

In any case, it's clear that in Zaz 8, the occurrence is in the FNIS_ file that is expected to be used. It's not in some archive, or provided for historical interest, or whatever, it's the main animation list for the pack, and it contains an AAprefix that conflicts directly with the ZEP file, not in name, but in contents.

 

Thus, no load-ordering will ever fix this, unless you have another mod in the mix that overwrites one of those files with a non-conflicting copy.

You could fix this if delete or edit by hand either the one in Zaz 8, or in ZEP.

 

In the case of Zaz 8+ it's a bit different; the files are provided differently, hidden in an "old_lists" directory, and given interesting extensions, like maybe you are supposed to manually pick and install one, maybe... But probably not, as it has FNIS_* list files that do not have the problem prefix, and they are in the location you'd actually expect the animation list to be. My guess is that the "old files" are just junk/clutter that breaks your FNIS.

 

Incidentally, I downloaded Zaz 8+ fresh yesterday - having never bothered using it before.

My Zaz 8 downloads were done months ago.

The ZEP you see here is also new, because the Zep I used in the past was for Zaz 7 + TUFP.

I removed the old ZEP install from MO, and can probably remove TUFP installs too, but it's immaterial; I have no profiles that use them, and they certainly aren't in the DeviousWorld one, which I only made a couple of days ago, and which is pretty minimal.

 

There's definitely "something going on" in the install process for Zaz 8/8+ here; ZEP had this animation prefix before either was released, but it seems probable it first appeared in TUFP.

 

Perhaps Zaz 8/8+ expects some manual antics here, where you remove your ZEP animation list and either use the Zap 8 one, or pick one of your choosing in Zap 8+ ?

 

If so, I must have missed the directions for this essential step on the front page of Zaz 8+. Has anyone else found instructions for this?

 

I was able to build FNIS with Zaz 8+ and ZEP, by removing the "old lists" directory from Zaz 8+ but whether that setup actually works in any useful way I'm not sure; I haven't even had time to compare the ZEP and Zaz files, let alone try seriously testing the setup. However, it did load and animate some stuff.

 

I've looked into the files now, and I feel fairly safe that the "old files" in Zaz 8+ are just junk. There's no doubt that the ones in ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+\Meshes\actors\character\animations\ZaZAnimationPack itself are far more up to date, and cover very much the same content, or more.

 

So. For me at least, the answer is, install Zaz 8+ not Zaz 8 (as was linked to) and delete the "old files" directory.

All that remains now is to test this theory properly.