Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[valcon767]

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

But, could you add the version numbers to the requirements on the front page please?

 

Despite reading the front page, and the change lists, it's still couldn't figure whether this requires DD3, or DD4, or works with both, and whether there is a recommended version of DCL.

 

ZAZAnimationPack = 7.0 (not sure about 6.11) and does work with 8.0+

DDAssets = 3.0e (or whatever the last release version actually is)

DDIntergration = 4.0 or greater

DDExpansion = 4.0 or greater

 

DCL any version that supports/uses DDI, DDX 4.0 or greater

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Why not make the risk/reward on the game even - apparently fair - instead of biased?

You could then cheat the underlying dice rolls according to an MCM option that specifies how fair or unfair the game is.

 

 

A way to double-down when gambling would spice up gambling, and make it more dramatic.

 

If you play the game with a big enough debt, you could play something like "flip a coin, heads, I write off half your debt, tails you..." and there are different dialogues based on how many deals you have. If you have lots, follower says "tails, we double the length of all your deals". If you have none, or just a few, "tails, you make a deal of my choosing" (and the choosing is going to be harsh).

 

Or if your debt is really bad, "tails, you become my slave"

 

Or maybe you wouldn't implement it that way at all, but the idea is to offer the player something genuinely valuable (for example, halving all debt) so there's a real incentive to take the option, which also happens to carry a big risk. And of course, the double-down roll could use the unfairness setting too.

this feature was added due to requests and while it is blatantly unfair, the player has the option of not playing, and it's most useful time is when the player

is a little short on cash needed for something.  

example:

 

 

i recently had to restart due to making an adjustment to a NPC looks (PEBCAK) that caused lost save game.  after restart i was doing the "Thane of Falkreath"

questline and was 75 gold short of buying Lakeview Manor plot of land.  i had sold everything i could in Falkreath, and the shops were out of money, and i wanted

to get the land NOW.   i walked over to the CD Shop and got 77 gold there selling the last stuff i had, but still needed a few items to build crafting stations.



Master there decided i should wear some of the things i was trying to sell.  by taking the "Gamble" i was able to get the cash

needed to buy those last few items needed (from Lod) to build my crafting stations, as well as the logs needed.
 

 

 

i do like the idea of more gambling games, and especially having other types with even more consequences

 

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Another area of interest, not deeply explored in DF, is food.

 

If DF were "needs aware", for RND, or iNeed, or both, it could use food as a carrot or stick (no pun intended) to push the player into deals, punish the player, hurt willpower, etc.

 

I'm not sure what support already exists yet, but the dialogue doesn't hint at any food specific dialogues or thefts.

 

For example, whether a follower steals money but not food, and money and food, is a huge deal for a needs-based character.

 

The follower could provide food/water to the PC, at a vastly inflated price, or if the player is sufficiently restrained, feed ... other things ... lactacid, skooma, blackout potions, of DF specific drinks that damage willpower, or have other DF-specific stat effects.

 

 

This fits with the post earlier about paying all your debt. If you can pay "all your money" in one dialogue, then you need to retain enough to be able to buy food, or you must buy food first, before paying, and that creates a reason to not pay right away but wait until you reach a place where there is food.

 

If the follower takes all your money, and you have no food, you have to beg from money for food, or beg NPCs for food, or ... lots of options ... all hurt the PC's self-esteem right?

nod nod .. i use Mini Needs myself but needs awareness (stealing of food/drinks) or even just follower selling food/drinks for debt sounds like it could be a good

way for the follower to drive you further along the damaged willpower path.

 

ohh i see another possible "deal" here - you need food or drinks (due to needs mod) and have none and ask follower for help

Follower says sure but that means you take this deal (and it triggers one of the deals already in game).

the Follower has given you a small amount of food/drink (vanilla items) and it automatically starts a deal (just like you had asked for a deal and agreed to it,

it would be one of the regular deals, but without the player being able to say no {take debt instead}, so the player has now taken whichever deal the 

follower would propose and it automatically agrees to the deal).

 

11 hours ago, Black714 said:

Thanks for Great Mod, Anyway I got CTD issues when running Quest "Good Intention" When Speek with Augur of Dunlain. I Already Test it, when I Disable this Mods, The Game is Running Well again.... Thanks. 

This is a known bug.  you do not have to disable the mod fully to avoid it, you can just use the "pause mod" feature, on the debug page, to get around it on

the occasions it causes a problem.  basically it happens when using some "talking activators".  the 2 times i know it happens are "Augur of Dunlain" during

the College of Winterhold questline, and when using the Statue of Clavicus Vile during the daedric quest "A Daedra's Best Friend"

(Barbas the talking dog quest).

 

5 hours ago, rjn said:

Every time I load a save game my devious follower forgets to be a devious follower.  I use the debug option to re-add.  Willpower and resistance continue from what they were, but (of course) the debt is reset to 0. 

Is it because I have two followers?  I only set one of them to be a devious follower.  Or maybe I have to wait after loading or fast travel or something for the follower to remember normally?

Your Devious Follower should "remember" to be a devious follower in a short amount of time, but it does vary according to individual load orders.  this should normally 

happen within a minute or 2, but if you are in a hurry (or it fails to do so on it's own for some reason) you can try doing something (Fast Travel, Sleeping etc) to cause it

to do the debt recalculation (at default do something to cause the game to progress for 9 hours).

 

[Ursur1major]

I had some quick ideas for additions while I was playing today.

 

First, if the game detects Skoomawhore, maybe let the follower sell the player some drugs for extortionate prices?

 

Secondly, another deal that works a bit differently from the other deals

basically, the follower wishes to tattoo the player using slavetats, the difference is that this is a limited deal, and can maybe only be taken 3 times ever, with no way to buy out, but pays off a lot more than a regular deal, maybe 2000-3000 default?

[Krazyone]

Idea... A tie into your other mod, forced milk slave.

 

MCM option to have your other mod incorporated into Devious Follower.

 

You awaken to find your follower pouring something into your mouth, you struggle... but to no avail, as she empties the whole bottle down your throat.

 

Okay hun... she says with a smile on her face, its time you put those milk bags on your chest to work.

 

Milks you, when you are in towns, selling the milk. Until then, your breasts grow and she prevents you relieving your excess milk. Locking you out of all forms of milking, your milk is hers, and hers alone to sell...

 

Sorry Hun... but the milk in those fun bags, belong to me...

 

She does this daily, or after you sleep. Until you decrease your debt.

 

 

This could be low level debt payment...

 

Idea... You want Breezehome, or any other house... She buys your house for you, but you become a long term milk slave, until the debt is paid off. 

 

Maybe dressing you like a cow...

 

 

Just an idea... 

 

[Lozeak]

19 hours ago, xboronx said:

Small suggestion:

Can you add a dialogue option to completely pay your followers rent if you have enough money? If you have a debt of 1450 e.g. you have to initiate the dialogue, pay 1000, then again, pay 300, then again pay 100 and then a final time paying 100 till you have fully paid the debt.

If i remember correctly the nice little mod loan sharks had two nice dialogue options, one was pay the full sum if you had enough money and the other was pay all your money if you had less than the required sum.

 

Yea, will do.

 

18 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

On another front, reading through the dialog text, and seeing all the stuff for the gambling game, I couldn't help but think it's stacked in an obvious way that discourages playing it.

 

If you sum up the win column vs the lose column, the difference in favour of the follower is quite obvious.

I'm not sure if you get coerced into the gambling game, in which case it doesn't matter, but if you don't, and it's always a free choice, why would you ever play it?

 

Why not make the risk/reward on the game even - apparently fair - instead of biased?

You could then cheat the underlying dice rolls according to an MCM option that specifies how fair or unfair the game is.

 

 

A way to double-down when gambling would spice up gambling, and make it more dramatic.

 

If you play the game with a big enough debt, you could play something like "flip a coin, heads, I write off half your debt, tails you..." and there are different dialogues based on how many deals you have. If you have lots, follower says "tails, we double the length of all your deals". If you have none, or just a few, "tails, you make a deal of my choosing" (and the choosing is going to be harsh).

 

Or if your debt is really bad, "tails, you become my slave"

 

Or maybe you wouldn't implement it that way at all, but the idea is to offer the player something genuinely valuable (for example, halving all debt) so there's a real incentive to take the option, which also happens to carry a big risk. And of course, the double-down roll could use the unfairness setting too.

Yes it's one sided but making gold in skyrim is so easy and the most common reason you'd every want to borrow money is if your caught a little short on gold and well if you debt is low and deals low the gamble system is good for that. I've used it for that a few times in my playthroughs (once short on inn gold and other time for a quest). maybe I'll expand on it one day but I'm happy as it is (it's only a small thing anyway.)

 

18 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Another area of interest, not deeply explored in DF, is food.

 

If DF were "needs aware", for RND, or iNeed, or both, it could use food as a carrot or stick (no pun intended) to push the player into deals, punish the player, hurt willpower, etc.

 

I'm not sure what support already exists yet, but the dialogue doesn't hint at any food specific dialogues or thefts.

 

For example, whether a follower steals money but not food, and money and food, is a huge deal for a needs-based character.

 

The follower could provide food/water to the PC, at a vastly inflated price, or if the player is sufficiently restrained, feed ... other things ... lactacid, skooma, blackout potions, of DF specific drinks that damage willpower, or have other DF-specific stat effects.

 

 

This fits with the post earlier about paying all your debt. If you can pay "all your money" in one dialogue, then you need to retain enough to be able to buy food, or you must buy food first, before paying, and that creates a reason to not pay right away but wait until you reach a place where there is food.

 

If the follower takes all your money, and you have no food, you have to beg from money for food, or beg NPCs for food, or ... lots of options ... all hurt the PC's self-esteem right?

So for food/drink/drugs to be interesting you really need certain mods installed (which I don't use) so I don't really want to go down that avenue yet/

16 hours ago, orgs1n said:

 

Will you share it when done or send it to Lozeak?

 

- "Missy" shows just the right level of disrespect for a condescending male hired by a woman.
- "Partner" sounds quite neutral and suits the business relationship.
- "Darling" is used by some of Skyrim's NPC's already.
- "My sweet" is used by some of Skyrim's NPC's already.

 

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Good suggestions, I think I'll go through and use all of those as seems to fit the particular line best.

 

I don't know what I'm doing with the result.

 

I can share it any time really, but I guess I'd like Lorzeak to at least have a chance to express an opinion on whether it's frowned upon.

 

Apart from adding the suggestions above, it's done.

 

 

I think it's hard to argue against distributing the .EET, as anyone could make and use one for themselves.

To use the .EET you need to install ESP-ESM Translator and learn the basics of loading a mod and a .EET, then saving a translated mod.

Some people will know this well, others may never have heard of it before.

 

However, posting the modified ESP and PXE files (of which there are only a few), as a kind of patch, is going a step further, and he might consider it a support nuisance, or worse.

 

 

I also have a little .Net program I made that allows, within limits, the ability to apply an ESP-ESM XML file to script source files rather than compiled PXEs, but I'm not sure what to do with that. Only mod authors would ever want it.

You can share anything to do with my mod on Loverlabs and as long as it's not behide a paywall.

I won't be correcting/altering text in my mod myself until it's in a more solid and bug free state.

8 hours ago, rjn said:

Every time I load a save game my devious follower forgets to be a devious follower.  I use the debug option to re-add.  Willpower and resistance continue from what they were, but (of course) the debt is reset to 0. 

Is it because I have two followers?  I only set one of them to be a devious follower.  Or maybe I have to wait after loading or fast travel or something for the follower to remember normally?

Might be 2 followers, I added multifollower support a while back but had no feedback if it worked/didn't, my problem is I havn't the time to test it so it's likely having 2 followers.

 

Thanks for the pictures ^^ added them <333. for the title I should of said I wanted something like Text on a background no characters/people either way I threw something basic together in paint3d. (it was mainly so the thumb for the mod said devious followers).

 

Now I'm going to rework the deal system in the CK (no changes in the game) and push a bug fix.

Once the deal system is reworked it mean I can add more. Worth mentioning the 3 main deals might be the only deals with 3 levels maybe I'll add few 2/1 stage deals because it doesn't restrict ideas as hard.

[Lozeak]

3 minutes ago, Krazyone said:

Idea... A tie into your other mod, forced milk slave.

 

MCM option to have your other mod incorporated into Devious Follower.

 

You awaken to find your follower pouring something into your mouth, you struggle... but to no avail, as she empties the whole bottle down your throat.

 

Okay hun... she says with a smile on her face, its time you put those milk bags on your chest to work.

 

Milks you, when you are in towns, selling the milk. Until then, your breasts grow and she prevents you relieving your excess milk. Locking you out of all forms of milking, your milk is hers, and hers alone to sell...

 

Sorry Hun... but the milk in those fun bags, belong to me...

 

She does this daily, or after you sleep. Until you decrease your debt.

 

 

This could be low level debt payment...

 

Idea... You want Breezehome, or any other house... She buys your house for you, but you become a long term milk slave, until the debt is paid off. 

 

Maybe dressing you like a cow...

 

 

Just an idea... 

 

 

I love this idea ^^ but I don't want to worry bout cross mod stuff atm.

[Lozeak]

So updated it, no content but some needed fixes.

 

The being unable to pay and deals having a timer on lead to the player being so screwed over so I made it so you can pay the follower after you have 6 or more deals set other wise (in Endless mode) it = Break enslave debt ---> Add time to deals --->Break enslave debt ---> Add time to deals --->Break enslave debt ---> Add time to deals ---> Game over

Tbh, this was cool for me cause I didn't expect it being my mod and well that was the end of that game for that character tricked by the follower into endlessly adding time on to the deals or living in chains.

 

Device Removal in dungeons, I made it do your follower would refuse to if your willpower was too low but I feel with the cost increase per time that's not needed, I did however add that if you have low willpower there is a chance your follower will lose additional lives.

 

What's next..... well no idea, I need some rest buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I'm gonna try and test add a deal from another .esp and if it work post a guide how to add deals to this mod (it's a big maybe but I think if I can get it working it will let anyone expand on this mod epically)

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Lozeak said:

What's next..... well no idea, I need some rest buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I'm gonna try and test add a deal from another .esp and if it work post a guide how to add deals to this mod (it's a big maybe but I think if I can get it working it will let anyone expand on this mod epically)

I don't know if people will put in the effort, but that kind of open approach could potentially lead to some great stuff ... or to bugs you can't control ... let's hope for the former!

 

 

With the gambling suggestion I made, I think people overlooked that I was suggesting that warping the fairness of the dice roll "under the covers" according to a slider setting, lets  the player control how unfair it is, from "actually completely fair" to "it's a trap".

 

Having more drama in the gambling, with the ability to escalate it to bigger risks and rewards would also suit ... some people ... the double-down is a classic of gambling. What people originally wanted the feature for, and where you could take it, don't have to be the same thing. But I guess if I'm the only person interested in it, it's not as interesting as needs support, or MME hooks. I'm interested in those things too.

 

 

With needs, iNeed/Frostfall have a system so you can easily add data for them without making a hard dependency.

 

I'm not sure about RND, that always seems to need patches, and I've never even tried mini-needs. iNeed sort of does what I want, and rarely ever seems to have issues, so I l have no incentive to change.

 

Skooma Whore is a bit lame by itself; you can generally loot enough skooma variants to feed any addition for nothing; and the dens can be too tiresome to get to, and don't really have good mechanics either. But being forcefed lactacid is another thing entirely. Milk maid integration with DF would be great, and is entirely obvious. Given Lorzeak's other interests I'm sure he's thought about it at length already. Maybe he's hoping that MME will hook into DF (using the deals API he's trying), rather than the other way around though?

 

 

With the text changes I've done, due to the way that ESP-ESM Translator works means that you could take the EET and apply them to any version of the ESP with little effort - only genuinely new text would remain unchanged, so everything would still work. It's basically doing a text replace, optionally restricted by object ID, and dialogues(info/topic) are ultimately just objects. For example, I made the changes on the previous ESP, and now I can just load the new ESP and the EET, save out a freshly translated ESP, and I'm ready to go.

 

 

The advantage of the EET file is that anyone can further customise it to their taste. The advantage of uploading an ESP is that you just drop it in, zero effort.

If space allows, I'll do both.

[Hanshurtig11]

Have not found in comments yet, but i have problems with my follower not "finding a good stud" .. when wearing ... well, you know..  even we are just a few yards aside of one *g*

Noticed in front of Markarth. regards

[Reesewow]

20 minutes ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

Have not found in comments yet, but i have problems with my follower not "finding a good stud" .. when wearing ... well, you know..  even we are just a few yards aside of one *g*

Noticed in front of Markarth. regards

There was a post about a similar issue earlier - I haven't had that game happen to me yet but it sounds like you need to go to one of the main stables and the mod is supposed to detect an NPC named "Horse" - so if you have fancy horse replacer mods the scene might not work.  I believe one of the recent updates added the ability to refuse the game at any point to compensate for it being impossible to complete in those cases.

[Reesewow]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Skooma Whore is a bit lame by itself; you can generally loot enough skooma variants to feed any addition for nothing; and the dens can be too tiresome to get to, and don't really have good mechanics either. But being forcefed lactacid is another thing entirely. Milk maid integration with DF would be great, and is entirely obvious. Given Lorzeak's other interests I'm sure he's thought about it at length already. Maybe he's hoping that MME will hook into DF (using the deals API he's trying), rather than the other way around though?

I agree that MME integration could be really interesting and a good fit, but based on the mods that use MME it seems it might be challenging to use without MME becoming a master.  

 

*However* I just realized that if Lozeak is successful in linking deals added from an external .esp, perhaps it would allow for an easier time adding themed content that depends on other mods, by having them be masters of a Devious Follower Addon.esp.  So you could have a separate .esp that adds Milk Maid themed content to Devious Followers, or Soul Gem Oven, or a Needs mod ect.

 

Of course, the question is if people will take advantage of it to make their ideas a reality, but that's not up to the modder after the tools are provided.

 

@Lozeak enjoy the rest, current version seems to be working great.  The story of your poor follower being crushed by debt is pretty funny, but I'm glad there are some safeguards in place to keep it from happening to me if I start a new character. 

[Hanshurtig11]

45 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

There was a post about a similar issue earlier - I haven't had that game happen to me yet but it sounds like you need to go to one of the main stables and the mod is supposed to detect an NPC named "Horse" - so if you have fancy horse replacer mods the scene might not work.  I believe one of the recent updates added the ability to refuse the game at any point to compensate for it being impossible to complete in those cases.

Hm, i thought Markarth might be a mainstable, with own building and two horses in their place. No Mod regarding horses on my side. Well, at least you have the option to buy out of it. (thou its not cheap )

I might found a possible reason... Having a german Skyrim, i just had a look in the console, and the "horse" is named "Pferd" for me. Guess that might affect other languages as well.

[Fenroo]

46 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

 

 

*However* I just realized that if Lozeak is successful in linking deals added from an external .esp, perhaps it would allow for an easier time adding themed content that depends on other mods, by having them be masters of a Devious Follower Addon.esp.  So you could have a separate .esp that adds Milk Maid themed content to Devious Followers, or Soul Gem Oven, or a Needs mod ect.

@Lozeak

That's a fascinating idea, and a very exciting one. I would love to see some of unevensteven ideas incorporated into it's own deals mod.

[grooovus]

is "no active deals" a requirement for the games?
And how many games are there and what would the typical requirements look like?

[MrMagoo]

My follower won't remove devices or tell me how much I owe because she is tired... but no matter how many times I rest at an inn for over 6 hours she remains stuck in this state...

[valcon767]

8 hours ago, grooovus said:

is "no active deals" a requirement for the games?
And how many games are there and what would the typical requirements look like?

linked post list the games available

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-23rd-april-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2215878

 

as for active deals it does depend on the individual deals (and what level they are at)

a note on the "gag while sleeping" game = requires sleeping at an Inn for it to happen (might work other places, but will NOT work in a player home).

;of course with my additions to Inns that makes it a very dangerous (to willpower) game simply due to sheer number of npcs there.

 

@Lozeak i do like the new gag game (after i figured out what i was doing wrong preventing it from triggering ).

 

[Marauderrr]

What a great mod!  Thanks for this. Really liking it so far...

 

Just wondering if there was a deal to whore out the DB in inns to work off debt?

 

 

[Zor2k13]

Where is that chains outfit from in one of the pics on the mod page?

[Lozeak]

 

On 23/04/2018 at 7:08 PM, Hanshurtig11 said:

Hm, i thought Markarth might be a mainstable, with own building and two horses in their place. No Mod regarding horses on my side. Well, at least you have the option to buy out of it. (thou its not cheap )

I might found a possible reason... Having a german Skyrim, i just had a look in the console, and the "horse" is named "Pferd" for me. Guess that might affect other languages as well.

That would be the reason why, I'll think about a fix.

 

16 hours ago, valcon767 said:

linked post list the games available

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/82710-devious-followers-23rd-april-2018/?do=findComment&comment=2215878

 

as for active deals it does depend on the individual deals (and what level they are at)

a note on the "gag while sleeping" game = requires sleeping at an Inn for it to happen (might work other places, but will NOT work in a player home).

;of course with my additions to Inns that makes it a very dangerous (to willpower) game simply due to sheer number of npcs there.

 

@Lozeak i do like the new gag game (after i figured out what i was doing wrong preventing it from triggering ).

 

 

Yea, it's Inn only because the dialogue wouldn't really make sense with no one else around.

 

4 hours ago, Marauderrr said:

What a great mod!  Thanks for this. Really liking it so far...

 

Just wondering if there was a deal to whore out the DB in inns to work off debt?

 

 

I think there are mods out there that allow you to do that which work better than what I could add. That said there is some content  were you have to go to an Inn and be nice to people ! 

13 minutes ago, Zor2k13 said:

Where is that chains outfit from in one of the pics on the mod page?

Used in enslavement content and in endless mode if you are at high debt and willpower is low enough.

 

=====================================================

 

Atm, I'm just playing about in CK trying to work out the render window and if there is a way to force bringing up the sleep menu (I don't think there is), either way I'm at a learning phase of stuff so not making any content /shrug

 

I do think that in my next mod it will start as a companion mod for this mod (aka add content that can is influence or influences this mod) then expand it to a stand alone mod which mean it will exist on this page once I get to a decent enough point.

 

Also, One punch man (on netflix atm) is amazing !

[Reesewow]

6 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

That would be the reason why, I'll think about a fix.

Perhaps having the detection be based on finding an NPC that uses the vanilla horse race would be more compatible? 

[Zor2k13]

I looked in the meshes folder of your mod and did not find any chains or anything that looked like that does it come from another mod?

[valcon767]

1 hour ago, Zor2k13 said:

I looked in the meshes folder of your mod and did not find any chains or anything that looked like that does it come from another mod?

yes they come from one of the required mods.

 

either ZAZ Animation Pack or Devious Devices (probably expansion)

 

[Zor2k13]

Oh that was probably something from heretical resources mod that was included in those other mods ok thanks.

[Lozeak]

My doesn't use ZAZ/ZEP anymore it's from DDX I think

[Lupine00]

The cursed gauntlets...

 

Is there any plan to make 1H, light armor, and mage oriented equivalents?

 

I looted them but they were never likely to trap me, as my character isn't set up for heavy or 2H.

I tried them on anyway, as I wanted to check the text.

 

 

Are they really supposed to destroy your equipped gear? Seems a little harsh by any standard.

 

 

[Lupine00]

Spotted a minor bug in MCM:

 

    ElseIf (Option == OID_DebtText)
            SetInfoText("How much you owe")
    ElseIf (Option == OID_WillText)
            SetInfoText("Your willpower lowered when your resistance reaches -1 (via things like rape)")
    ElseIf (Option == OID_DebtText) << Same as above >>
            SetInfoText("Your willpowers life when depleted your willpower will drop by one it effects nothing else")

 

 

The depleted willpower hover-tip text is tested against the wrong option and will never be displayed.