Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Darkpig]

There should really be an off button for the framework when you are not using it. Like in big battles and whathaveyou.

[MadMansGun]

2 hours ago, Darkpig said:

There should really be an off button for the framework when you are not using it. Like in big battles and whathaveyou.

i think that about a lot of mods.

[Hanshurtig11]

On 1/12/2019 at 7:18 PM, UnEvenSteven said:

 

It's a shame you couldn't get it to work for you. If you want you could rule out potential issues with OS by loading something like another plug set and simply exporting without doing anything to the meshes. If the game crashes when you try using the file you've just exported then that would definitely point to an OS issue. You could then try a clean (delete the entire CalienteTools folder and it's contents) install of BS/OS and try again.

 

If the game doesn't crash after trying the file you've exported then load it in OS again and try scaling the mesh a little and export again. If the game crashes then it may an OS problem, try a re-install as described above.

 

If the game doesn't crash after the slight scale-up then load the file in OS again but this time load the body you're currently using as a reference and export again. If the game crashes then there may be an issue between OS and the body you're using. Load either a back-up or new file in OS, scale the mesh some and prepare to load a body for a reference again. However instead of trying the body you're using in-game try a Template this time. By default "From Template" and "CBBE Body" should already be selected, you could select "Unified UNP" from the drop-down menu if that's what you use. Don't use any BBP/HDT/XYZ versions for a reference. Export the file. If the game doesn't crash then that points to an issue with the body you were trying to use and OS.

 

If all this fails you may need to look around the description and comments section of the BS/OS Nexus page for a solution.

 

So if want you can try to follow these badly written instructions to track down the issue with OS or just ignore all of this and move on ?

 

 

 

Also, sorry Kimy and Mods! I know this thread isn't intended for discussing OS issues.

 

 

Just giving it a finishing line... Tried again , to find the error, , tried just to load and save in OS, worked. Tried loading with CBBE standard body (from template), worked. Tried with CBBE body and belt to adjust properly, worked. At least i tried with my used UUNP HDT body (from file /characterassets) and belt to adjust .... and worked !! Same as i did before, but this time, no problem.     Sighs, if someone understands Skyrim completly sometimes Thx again

[CovertDemon]

Been meaning to ask: what could prevent Devious Devices from interfering with vampirism, in that you shouldn't be able to feed while wearing something that works as a gag?

[Code Serpent]

2 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

Been meaning to ask: what could prevent Devious Devices from interfering with vampirism, in that you shouldn't be able to feed while wearing something that works as a gag?

That could be added by simply editing the VampireFeed perk. Although, Kimy has said she's against editing any vanilla features, or requiring any DLC like Dawnguard. So, it'll likely have to be made as an external mod.

[UnEvenSteven]

17 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

Been meaning to ask: what could prevent Devious Devices from interfering with vampirism, in that you shouldn't be able to feed while wearing something that works as a gag?

 

As Code Serpent stated a patch would be required for gags to block vampire feeding. LazyBoot made patches for vanilla vampire and one for Better Vampires. If you use Sacrosanct I recently made a patch for that.

[bastsard]

since DD has its own animations is there a way to select specific animations ? via sexlab tools or something ? when i try to choose from tools it shows only one animation that current playing

[CovertDemon]

Which file in Bodyslide handles the armbinder? I'm asking since for some reason, the armbinder's straps clip within the body and when the DDArmbinderSolo animation plays, the arms clip within it.

 

Spoiler

 

[Laura]

18 minutes ago, CovertDemon said:

Which file in Bodyslide handles the armbinder? I'm asking since for some reason, the armbinder's straps clip within the body and when the DDArmbinderSolo animation plays, the arms clip within it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm pretty sure that the Armbinders can't be changed in BodySlide. That's why armbinders often look so loose.

[LazyBoot]

17 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I'm pretty sure that the Armbinders can't be changed in BodySlide. That's why armbinders often look so loose.

I think the CBBE ones have bodyslide files.

[Laura]

26 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

I think the CBBE ones have bodyslide files.

I know. I asked about this because the rope armbinder didn't fit and they said that it doesn't change them. I think it was because of software limitations.

[Hanshurtig11]

Are there any changes in the latest Dev version against the the latest release version ? Worth a download and update ?

regards

[Kimy]

We haven't opened 4.3 development yet, so there is no new dev build at this time.

[Lupine00]

On 1/31/2019 at 3:23 AM, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I think it was because of software limitations.

It's because of practical geometry limitations.

 

Because the armbinder mesh is in a certain place on the body, it has to be weighted to certain bones.

Those bones can't be the arm bones, because the default pose bears no relationship to armbinder pose.

 

So armbinders are weighted off - I don't know what - something in the torso area, shoulders, or a neck bone probably.

 

This means there's is no way armbinders can meaningfully be bound to the arm sliders, which apply transforms in the coordinate system of the arm bones.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. I never looked in detail at how Bodyslide works, but I did spend a good few years writing low level code for NetImmerse.

 

 

It's not impossible to build a system that could handle this kind of scenario, but it would be non-trivial, and would require loading the bone positions for a base armbinder pose, which would probably require the software to be able to process animation files as well as static meshes. You could probably work around that, but it would still require a fairly decent skeleton handling model.

 

 

Given that Beth themselves didn't even give us proper bone constraints, a decent animation blend weighting system, or a morph deformation model based on joint angles, or anything like a modern animation system, it's amazing what the Bodyslide authors and the ingenuity of artists has coaxed out of an engine that adds practically nothing to the base NI libraries. 

[Code Serpent]

On 1/30/2019 at 10:23 AM, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I know. I asked about this because the rope armbinder didn't fit and they said that it doesn't change them. I think it was because of software limitations.

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It's because of practical geometry limitations.

 

Because the armbinder mesh is in a certain place on the body, it has to be weighted to certain bones.

Those bones can't be the arm bones, because the default pose bears no relationship to armbinder pose.

 

So armbinders are weighted off - I don't know what - something in the torso area, shoulders, or a neck bone probably.

I've messed around with Bodyslide enough to answer this. The only limitation is patience. Normally, when you make an outfit for bodyslide, you use a reference body, and copy the morphs of the body onto the outfit, and then tweak it if necessary. This works because the outfit's body usually perfectly overlaps the reference's body.

 

For armbinders, they aren't overlapping the reference's arms, since the reference is in a t-pose, so copying morphs from the reference to the armbinder will only copy over torso and back morphs.

 

However, you can also apply morphs to any outfit manually, independent of the location of morph on the outfit. For example, you could cause the spikes on an armor's pauldron to grow longer in relation to breast size. This means that armbinders could have arm morphs applied, but since the reference body's arms are not in place, it would have to be done entirely by trial and error:

1. make the armbinder bodyslide set
2. build the armbinder mesh
3. test it in game
4. open outfit studio and tweak
5. repeat steps 2-4 until satisfied or suicidal

This is far too much convoluted work for a feature that many don't care that much about.

[Laura]

1 hour ago, Code Serpent said:

I've messed around with Bodyslide enough to answer this. The only limitation is patience. Normally, when you make an outfit for bodyslide, you use a reference body, and copy the morphs of the body onto the outfit, and then tweak it if necessary. This works because the outfit's body usually perfectly overlaps the reference's body.

 

For armbinders, they aren't overlapping the reference's arms, since the reference is in a t-pose, so copying morphs from the reference to the armbinder will only copy over torso and back morphs.

 

However, you can also apply morphs to any outfit manually, independent of the location of morph on the outfit. For example, you could cause the spikes on an armor's pauldron to grow longer in relation to breast size. This means that armbinders could have arm morphs applied, but since the reference body's arms are not in place, it would have to be done entirely by trial and error:

1. make the armbinder bodyslide set
2. build the armbinder mesh
3. test it in game
4. open outfit studio and tweak
5. repeat steps 2-4 until satisfied or suicidal

This is far too much convoluted work for a feature that many don't care that much about.

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

[Supertin]

12 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

I've messed around with Bodyslide enough to answer this. The only limitation is patience. Normally, when you make an outfit for bodyslide, you use a reference body, and copy the morphs of the body onto the outfit, and then tweak it if necessary. This works because the outfit's body usually perfectly overlaps the reference's body.

 

For armbinders, they aren't overlapping the reference's arms, since the reference is in a t-pose, so copying morphs from the reference to the armbinder will only copy over torso and back morphs.

 

However, you can also apply morphs to any outfit manually, independent of the location of morph on the outfit. For example, you could cause the spikes on an armor's pauldron to grow longer in relation to breast size. This means that armbinders could have arm morphs applied, but since the reference body's arms are not in place, it would have to be done entirely by trial and error:

1. make the armbinder bodyslide set
2. build the armbinder mesh
3. test it in game
4. open outfit studio and tweak
5. repeat steps 2-4 until satisfied or suicidal

This is far too much convoluted work for a feature that many don't care that much about.

^This.

 

Additional note, you can import a body that has the arms in the right position as a reference body. So it isn't trial and error, but it would mean exporting and re-importing a multitude of references bodies for all the different sliders affecting the arms.

Add to that making manual changes inside of outfit studio via its transformation tools and masking is pretty much cancer. It's about as imprecise as it gets and ithey're really only meant to eliminate small clipping issues.

 

If outfit studio had some sort of support for the skeleton bones to be in non-T-Pose when copying weights and applying sliders, then this whole process would be a lot simpler, but the program always assumes you're working with the T-Pose.

[SirCrazy]

With the loss of Nexus Mod Manager which mod manager do you recommend/support for using Devious Devices mods?

[worik]

9 hours ago, SirCrazy said:

With the loss of Nexus Mod Manager which mod manager do you recommend/support for using Devious Devices mods?

It doesn't matter. Pick anyone, or pick the one which looks most nice to you. Or the one with the cutest colours. Or just stick with NMM. Why should you switch at all, if it works for you? They all go for the same purpose.

Just make sure you read the documentation first, before you do anything else!

[Skullered]

It appears that the OnActorAction event in zadShoutStaggerEffect is being called on ANY ACTOR (any actor that is able to shout), and not just the player.

I noticed several draugr constantly putting their weapons away after shouting, and refusing to take them back out again, and looking through the logs, the draugr are incorrectly having animations played on them each time they shout.

 

There needs to be a player check in this event, or else it ends up running on any actor that shouts and breaks their animations.

Event OnActorAction(int actionType, Actor akActor, Form source, int slot)
    if akActor != libs.PlayerRef ; <---- Add something like this.
        return
    endif
    if slot == 2
        ;libs.Notify("Player just got staggered!")
        libs.PlayThirdPersonAnimation(akActor, libs.AnimSwitchKeyword(akActor, "OutOfBreath"), 3, permitRestrictive=True)        
    EndIf
EndEvent

[Verstort]

Currently, when you get some devious events related to items worn on the player, IE the player fiddling with their belt, player controls get locked and they aren't released until a long animation plays.

 

Suggestion: Maybe if the player gets hit by an enemy in combat while the animation is playing, the animation could cancel early? The player ignoring pain and threat of life in combat to stay in a slow and long animation is a bit immersion breaking.

 

Without looking at the whole framework, implementation sounds light and easy to implement: Attach the player to an alias with a script that detects hits on the player, but only attach the alias at the same time those animations fire, and remove them when you give player controls back. Temporary script means less papyrus running in all combat in the game, if its only active during the animation logic can be as simple as if hit -> enable controls, where the rest is assumed.

[CovertDemon]

On 2/4/2019 at 3:06 PM, Supertin said:

^This.

 

Additional note, you can import a body that has the arms in the right position as a reference body. So it isn't trial and error, but it would mean exporting and re-importing a multitude of references bodies for all the different sliders affecting the arms.

Add to that making manual changes inside of outfit studio via its transformation tools and masking is pretty much cancer. It's about as imprecise as it gets and ithey're really only meant to eliminate small clipping issues.

 

If outfit studio had some sort of support for the skeleton bones to be in non-T-Pose when copying weights and applying sliders, then this whole process would be a lot simpler, but the program always assumes you're working with the T-Pose.

Oh. That makes sense.

 

Kind of a shame. I brought that picture up because I swore I remembered armbinders from past versions not clipping (or mostly not clipping like that) with the body that badly.

[tuxagent7]

Hi @Kimy

 

I read on your patreon that you will integrate zaz 7 stuff in devious device and i think it is a good idea.

 

I have a question : With this integration will i be able to uninstall zaz 7 and still play with mods like Sexy bandit captive that need zaz as a dependencies ?  I hope so, it is the only mod left that i use that still use zaz 7 as a requierements

[CovertDemon]

I'll be honest: I had to re-install Integration, Expansion and do some fiddling with Mod Organizer 2 (especially with the list on the left), but now, the armbinder doesn't clip with the body anymore and safe to say that the rest of the restraints will behave like that too.

 

EDIT: Nevermind. The Ebonite armbinders are fine, but the leather ones still clip.

 

EDIT 2: Turns out Part 4 of Vel's Captured Dreams was the culprit. You know, the prebuilt meshes. I deactivated it and the leather armbinders now behave. All is well.

[WaxenFigure]

21 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

I'll be honest: I had to re-install Integration, Expansion and do some fiddling with Mod Organizer 2 (especially with the list on the left), but now, the armbinder doesn't clip with the body anymore and safe to say that the rest of the restraints will behave like that too.

 

EDIT: Nevermind. The Ebonite armbinders are fine, but the leather ones still clip.

 

EDIT 2: Turns out Part 4 of Vel's Captured Dreams was the culprit. You know, the prebuilt meshes. I deactivated it and the leather armbinders now behave. All is well.

Move it so it's before the output from Bodyslide (left side of MO) and you should be able to use it too.  Or find and delete the prebuilt meshes it adds.