Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[TurboNerd]

On 5/22/2019 at 10:06 PM, Kimy said:

For balancing, I am pretty sure I will have to balance the system against vanilla Skyrim difficulty. I cannot take into account the gazillion of combat related mods people might or might not have installed, nor will I be able to make this system overly customizable without making it a performance hog.

I made a magic ring to grant buffs for wearing devious devices.  One enchantment with lots of effects each of which had lots of conditions.  No scripts required.  However, I quickly found that scaling with level was a difficult art.  I have not released it because it's a quick hack and simply not ready for the big time.  One way I thought to deal with leveling was to make a family of rings with strengths from minor to extreme as is common with other rings in the game.

 

With all the various view expressed, I think that a choice of add-on bound combat mods may be the way to go.  It's the ultimate in configurability.

[TurboNerd]

If you are able to squeeze it in, could you create a proper way for a mod to determine whether a voluntarily equipped device has had it's lock manipulated?  At present it's a Boolean buried in the device equip script with no outside access.

[Darkpig]

How about instead of device buffs some burly men or ghost men that would randomly follow you and protect you and occasionally fuck you? They would appear more as you get more and more tied up. Heck they don't even have to be men. Maybe you could play one of these kinky stalkers while your character is tied up.

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

But that's not how it is. DD is set in a game that's almost exclusively about combat. If DD wouldn't deal with combat in at least -some- fashion, it would be severely limiting what bondage content can be implemented.

See lower down for code-only suggestions to enhance bound combat gameplay.

 

 

I'm not against bound combat as a concept. In fact, if you look at my suggestions, I think there's some awesome potential here for new gameplay.

 

It doesn't seem so long ago that there wasn't any bound combat, and my past experiences with LBA are exactly as you describe @Kimy. If you just kept running, you could build up quite a train of animals gnawing at your heels, and you might get them to despawn before you died in some cases, but with something like a troll, the damage would often be too much for that to work.

 

The question with enhanced bound combat, is what quality of experience does it deliver?

 

Yes, Skyrim is all about combat, but not just one kind - we've got magic, stealth, heavy with shield, heavy 2H, light with shield, light 2H, light dual-wielding, and so on.

 

With bound combat, we've got a kick. Every character gets that one same attack, and nothing else. If that kick is lethal, you can finish dungeons with it, but it's not actually much fun. You can try this out with SLD right now. It will let you make your attack stats phenomenal, and your health practically limitless. I've played like that for testing purposes. It's not very interesting.

 

And right now, the kick is only for armbinders, not yokes. Adding more variants adds even more animations to DD - which some people don't like, so there will be some push back on that - but I think an animation for yokes is a "must have" anyway - just as soon as you can get it.

 

As for breast yoke ... maybe the animation price of that item was never justified ... but in theory at least, it too should allow bound combat. Or DD should auto-replace breast-yokes with regular yokes if you tick bound-combat-allowed. Or something.

 

 

I don't want to rain on the idea of bound combat. It's a beneficial thing, but it's never going to be able to match unbound combat in terms of entertainment - apart from the sexy aspect of it - if I make a mage, it's to cast magic, not do kicks, and if I make a heavy warrior, it's to be a heavy warrior, not do kicks while nearly naked. The DD items are peril that interrupts my core experience, they're not the core experience.

 

 

So, the key to this is understanding "what kind of new DD experiences do we want stronger bound combat to enable"?

What content mods are hamstrung by weak bound combat right now?

 

My current DD experience is that in some dungeon, items are added via a trap, or via defeat. In either case, I can talk to my Devious Follower to remove the worst of them at a price - unless it's a quest item. That's the main way I find myself in serious debt to the follower, and that debt is my choice. And of course, with DF, I may well have entered the dungeon with quite a few devices on to start with - but if one was heavy bondage, I will be released from it in the dungeon. In this case, the follower is my protection while walking around the world, not bound combat.

 

Let's assume not everyone uses Devious Followers or Devious Helpers though...  

If it's a quest item, my dungeon is probably over anyway. If it's a defeat, my dungeon is over, and I'm waiting for a DiD rescue, or I'm kicked out of the dungeon and heading to town to try and get a release there. If a defeat mod saves me from death and doesn't kick me out of the dungeon, there's no way I'm winning the fight I previously lost now that I'm in extra devices - which block gear slots or stop casting or weapon use. If bound combat lets me win that fight, it's kind of weird. New, definitely different.

 

So, for bound combat to be used "in dungeon" or for serious fights against gangs of monsters in the world, we're looking at a new play style. Presumably, this robs DCL's Cursed Collar Quest of its teeth, unless the intent is to jazz it up with hard fights. It's conceptually incompatible with Rubber Doll, which is intended to make you a silent, helpless sex-toy, and it's not relevant to Bound Queen, which makes you into a tiny magic god already. In fact, the Bound Queen set is so powerful that it's probably the easiest way to smash Skyrim. Not only do you get bottomless magicka, you can out-tank heavy armor, and you're practically immune to devious traps unless you modify the item limit for trap activation.

 

Obviously, there aren't mods out there that can leverage strong bound combat yet ... unless you count being put in devices by a trap (DCL or some other mod that has cursed chests). I guess for players that have common keys, especially in chests, pushing on and hoping to find keys is a valid path, and this would enable it. Some tweaks to DCL key-drop options would further enable this - e.g. let player set extra chance for keys on dead bodies or in chests.

 

 

 

Some code-only ideas for better bound combat...

 

1) Create a synthetic skill for bound combat, like the Frostfall skills. (Just a value inside DD basically).

2) Use the skill to help drive level scaling of the buffs.

3) Let devious mods modify the skill via a couple of calls to inspect and set a modifier value. Mods pass their own string tag for this, like NiOverride, so they can stack instead of conflict.

4) (Stacking) modifiers to the skill from items should be possible - they could be set in a property on the item.

5) Allow quest items to disable bound combat as a device property.

6) Add bound casting, like in BWitch, so we have another kind of bound combat, and now players have a choice how to fight while bound.

7) Gate the best bound combat perks off the skill level (and maybe player level too).

? Add a dodge move... No new animation needed, simply change the player's position quickly. Dodge move burns stamina but can be used as a prelude to an escape.

9) Humiliating tattoos that add bound combat buffs. Buy them, or get them added against your will.

10) Add stealth kills while bound. Again no animation needed, just use the kick again, but lethal. Only works while sneaking. Requires a perk you have to buy. Requires moderate bound combat skill. May randomly fail to work (chance based on skill presumably).

11) Arousal modifiers to bound combat. Let the player choose whether arousal improves or impairs bound combat.

12) Bound dash - escape combat by running away - briefly adds extreme speed boost at cost of large amount of stamina - can burn health if stamina not available - if that would put you in bleedout, you get the escape sprint, and when it ENDS, the bleedout kicks in.

13) Increase the skill via experience in bound combat, based on simple metrics.

14) Or in a more complex world, have multiple skills - bound attack, bound defence, bound sprint, etc. - maybe any more than two skills is a bad idea?

 

Items need to be able to debuff or shut-off bound combat based on an item property, because otherwise mods like SD+ are going to have some real problems being compatible with a game where it's enabled, and may feel forced to resort to fragile hacks to try and block combat.

 

Letting items disable individual features like bound-casting, or bound-stealth-kills would also offer mods more options to alter gameplay.

 

 

Normally, perks for the synthetic skill would be purchased in the DD MCM, but allow players to disable that feature.

The idea is that some mods may offer ways to earn the perks via quests, or buy them from vendors, or whatever mechanic they can invent. It's all new ways to make content!

This adds depth to progression in the skill. DCL could (for example) gate most of these skills behind Dollmaker quests. Or the player can ignore that and use the DD MCM if they don't want to do those quests again. Perks would always be gated off other values though, like skill level, player level, and so on.

 

I can imagine a mod that requires time spent in chastity, or a number of sex acts, or time spent wearing devices before you can buy certain combat perks.
 

Please think about how mods in general can use bound combat, modify it themselves, disable it entirely, or enhance it.

 

e.g. Imagine an activator that makes the PC play a masturbation, then after that's done, gives them a large timed buff to bound combat. They can then go into an area and have to kill X-many enemies, or get through unharmed - fail and enter bleedout - or runout the timer, and they're ported back to the activator, have another bondage item added, and get to try again.

 

 

There's some great potential here, but there's a lot more coding to it than just adding a few perks with combat bonuses. The skill, and skill advancement system aren't a huge task. Adding bound stealth kills, dodge move, bound sprint, and bound casting is a chunk of work, but there are existing examples so it's not too tricky.

 

Every other little feature is also work, tattoos, modifiers on items, toggle properties on items, the experience system ... all of it adds up ... do it all, or most of it, and there's tons of potential ... do just a part and the feature will probably be a bit disappointing. Do not enough, and the feature would probably break more mods than it improved.

 

If there's a downside here, I think it's that there's a lot more work to making a good and worthwhile strong-bound-combat feature than one might expect at first sight.

 

The upside is that if implemented in a feature rich way, it would change a lot of DD play for the better, delivering new and valuable quest rewards, an interesting bondage progression path, and new kinds of quest gameplay possibility. I'd like to hope it might inspire a few new DD content mods.

 

I'm already imagining an extended Dollmaker quest sequence being a valid gameplay-advancement path. Might never happen, but it would certainly be awesome.

 

Perhaps a few of these things were already possible for an ambitious modder, but most LL modders make mechanics not content. Kimy makes a lot of content, and that's one reason why DCL is popular. Personally, I want to be making content not mechanics, but there were just some mechanics I couldn't live without, so I'm stuck doing that.

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The question with bound combat, were we to have more of it, is what quality of experience does it deliver?

 

Yes, Skyrim is all about combat, but not just one kind - we've got magic, stealth, heavy with shield, heavy 2H, light with shield, light 2H, light dual-wielding, and so on.

 

With bound combat, we've got a kick. Every character gets that one same attack, and nothing else. If that kick is lethal, you can finish dungeons with it, but it's not actually much fun.

You can try this out with SLD right now. It will let you make your attack stats phenomenal, and your health practically limitless. I've played like that for testing purposes. It's not very interesting.

Personally - what I want out of bound combat isn't necessarily for it to be super engaging or deep but simply have a gameplay purpose and an alternative to regular combat, where currently it is basically just eyecandy outside of the lowest levels.  Having it spawn a whole new combat style that isn't just sexy brawling would be pretty amazing however, be it in base DD or via a "bound combat" overhaul mod - just not something I'd necessarily expect.

 

I think of vanilla unarmed combat in the same vein - there are some cool kill moves available for it, but the whole fighting style has no perk support and little to no scaling in the base game even if you try to make it work.  If unarmed combat was a fair bit stronger in the base game it could be a refreshing change of pace (kind of like murdering a pile of bandits as a werewolf can be).

 

One 3rd party mod I could see for those that want bound combat to "do" something but not actually be good at clearing quests or killing dragons would be for it to knock out opponents and deaggro them, rather than actually significantly damage or kill anything.  Thinking something like the poison buildup spells in apocalypse that build a hidden charge on an enemy, that triggers when it matches a certain % of enemy health.  In the case of bound combat, that could be knocking the enemy out for a significant duration and dropping combat, allowing the player to escape that pesky wolf or get out of a bandit camp without murdering everything with their feet.

 

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

And right now, the kick is only for armbinders, not yokes. Adding more variants adds even more animations to DD - which some people don't like, so there will be some push back on that - but I think an animation for yokes is a "must have" anyway.

I think there are already a few alternatives to kicks in already - hands cuffed in front I believe causes the player to use hammer-swing punches rather than kicks.  Agreed that a yoke animation would be a big boost to options, as they are super common heavy bondage items in a lot of mods.

[worik]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

1) Create a synthetic skill for bound combat, like the Frostfall skills. (Just a value inside DD basically).

3) Let devious mods modify the skill via a couple of calls to inspect and set a modifier value. Mods pass their own string tag for this, like NiOverride, so they can stack instead of conflict.

5) Allow quest items to disable bound combat as a device property.

? Add a dodge move... No new animation needed, simply change the player's position quickly. Dodge move burns stamina but can be used as a prelude to an escape. 

12) Bound dash - escape combat by running away - briefly adds extreme speed boost at cost of large amount of stamina - can burn health if stamina not available - if that would put you in bleedout, you get the escape sprint, and when it ENDS, the bleedout kicks in.

14) Or in a more complex world, have multiple skills - bound attack, bound defence, bound sprint, etc. - maybe any more than two skills is a bad idea?

I'd like to emphasize those.

[Lupine00]

On the subject of skills and perks ... it would be nice if escapology were a synthetic skill you could see in the MCM, level up, and gain perks for.

 

Maybe basic escapology only works for cuffs, but you can go on to buy perks for groups of items, such as heavy bondage (that would be quite high level)?

 

Maybe your pick-locks skill is limited by your escapology for some kinds of item? (Those hard-to-reach locks), and it wouldn't affect things like your chance to find sharp items, but might modify your chance to use them successfully (which is currently 100%).

 

Again, a great skill to link to quests to gain the perks, and NPCs to train you up ... where the more you improve your ability to escape, the more you find you've let yourself in for more trouble, bondage and enslavement. e.g. NPC find out you can escape from regular armbinders - you must need a High Security version instead! Or best way to learn collar escape perk is to become enslaved to Leon/Leah/Sasha and get out of the collar.

 

There could be a mild bonus reduction in key-drop chance for higher skill levels ... or maybe a perk just for that.

 

Could we also get some kind of (maybe optional) linkage between key-break and lock-picking. Seems odd a character who can pick anything is always breaking their keys.

 

 

Lots of options here... And while they are only modestly amusing by themselves, as rewards for kinky quests they would be enticing.

 

This is the sort of thing that I'd help bound-girls to get, or agree to otherwise totally undesirable "Smoking hot" requests for.

[Darkpig]

2 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Personally - what I want out of bound combat isn't necessarily for it to be super engaging or deep but simply have a gameplay purpose and an alternative to regular combat, where currently it is basically just eyecandy outside of the lowest levels.  Having it spawn a whole new combat style that isn't just sexy brawling would be pretty amazing however, be it in base DD or via a "bound combat" overhaul mod - just not something I'd necessarily expect.

 

I think of vanilla unarmed combat in the same vein - there are some cool kill moves available for it, but the whole fighting style has no perk support and little to no scaling in the base game even if you try to make it work.  If unarmed combat was a fair bit stronger in the base game it could be a refreshing change of pace (kind of like murdering a pile of bandits as a werewolf can be).

If you are talking about vanilla combat you can easily beat down a dragon with your daedric gauntlets and your pimp ring of power. If you lose either of those things for whatever reason then you could rely on your followers and your horse to help you out not to mention the plethora of shouts, blessings, and your stack of potions you never use.

 

Skyrim truly is a roleplayer's paradise.

2 hours ago, Reesewow said:

One 3rd party mod I could see for those that want bound combat to "do" something but not actually be good at clearing quests or killing dragons would be for it to knock out opponents and deaggro them, rather than actually significantly damage or kill anything.  Thinking something like the poison buildup spells in apocalypse that build a hidden charge on an enemy, that triggers when it matches a certain % of enemy health.  In the case of bound combat, that could be knocking the enemy out for a significant duration and dropping combat, allowing the player to escape that pesky wolf or get out of a bandit camp without murdering everything with their feet.

What to say about this? Why not? We'll call it the Sexy J*tsu.

 

[Darkwing241]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:59 AM, Kimy said:

 

Bound Combat is a DD feature that in its current state I consider lacklustre because of its very limited usefulness. We put all this work into this feature, including adopting AA animations instead of Overrides more or less -just- to accommodate it. And yet it doesn't change your game much. Sure, you can kick that stray wolf that without bound combat would have ended your bound journey right there. But it's not nearly powerful enough to attempt completing that dungeon run that just got interrupted by these silly cursed traps somebody thought were a good idea. Its also not powerful enough to try designing a bit of combat into bondage quests, meaning you have to carefully design any such content in ways that combat will never occur - in a game that's mainly about combat.

 

If you (or anyone else) have suggestions for improving bound combat by -code-, and make it more interesting I am all ears! The perks are one thing to make it better, but not necessarily the only one.

So I guess I'm another one of those who isn't all that into bound combat, but hear me out.  I don't thing bound combat is really ever going to be all that fun if you just try to make your character good at fighting.  A big part of the fun of the DD bondage items is the feeling of being in peril.  A bunch of stat buffs is just going to squish that.

 

Combat in general in Skyrim isn't all that fun if you take out the RPG elements.  Choosing and optimizing skills, items and strategies is what makes Skyrim combat enjoyable. Bound combat is pretty much just the one kick, with none of the customization.

 

If I was trying to design my ideal bound combat system, it would need to be two things.

1. All about hiding, running away, and often losing. (the fun of bondage)

2. preparing and picking skills (the fun of skyrim combat)

 

So I think what I would do is introduce some situational skills that would make bound combat work, but only in certain situations.

 

-Stealth abilities like sneak attacks are great, they let you defeat enemies if you need to, but also often fail and let the kink part of the game back in

-A sprint ability would allow you to put some distance between you and the enemy to get away.  move speed is also an incredibly powerful combat statistic, as it lets you manually dodge enemy attacks.  What's even better is it lets you fight really powerful enemies, but they will still mess you up if you make a mistake.

-Special kick attacks. Push "z" and your next kick inflicts some kind of debuff (maybe using poison mechanics or something?). "kick him in the balls" inflicts a move debuff.  "kick sand in his eyes" makes you invisible for a little bit "heel spike kick" inflicts a bleeding puncture wound that damages over time.  Maybe make like a dozen of these that you can learn?

-Apply poisons to heels

 

All of these abilities shouldn't require special animations and are situational and prone to failure so you still get that feeling of helplessness from bondage. They also don't add defenses that make you feel tanky, so if you want to roleplay dumb for a little bit, your character is still as a weak as ever.

 

Other ideas

-Custom metal tips to put on heels that increase damage or carry enchantments (iron/steel/ebony). These wouldn't require custom models, but they could be a future improvement. 

 

 

[LanaRavenclaw]

33 minutes ago, Darkwing241 said:

Other ideas

-Custom metal tips to put on heels that increase damage or carry enchantments (iron/steel/ebony). These wouldn't require custom models, but they could be a future improvement.

What about different locks which would not only buff the damage or carry enchantments but also increase the escape difficulty?

[Ursur1major]

I am for the idea of a perk tree or perk trees for Devious Devices similar to the perk trees added in Forstfall.

 

One for Escapology and one for Device Usage, Escapology could get points when you succeed or fail to escape from devices and has perks that effectively modify the difficulty settings for the mod, making devices easier to escape from, locks harder to break and keys easier to find. If optional I imagine you could move a lot of the MCM menu to a unlockable perk tree.

 

Meanwhile Device Usage perks are gained from wearing devices and could give the perks that enhance bound combat, decrease device weight and diminish device penalties. You could also have higher level perks giving bonuses for wearing devices, maybe add bound casting that Lupine suggests as a perk in the mage part of the tree, with a perk that adds armour value to devices when not wearing any regular armour in a warrior path and so on. to let you continue your playstyle in skyrim even when bound.

 

But ofcourse there should be some drawbacks, maybe it's just the regular device drawbacks, or maybe to gain a perk you need to give up something, maybe if you go for a warrior perk that increases damage resistance from a device then that same device would also give a stealth penalty.

 

Sorry if I'm just parroting what's already been said but I've had these ideas in my head for years and now finally people are beginning to talk about it.

[TurboNerd]

Bound combat, or bound escape, is needed to make it so that being bound outside of town is not a drag.  Without bound combat (or a death alternative) it's just:

1. Try to sneak or run off.
2. Get caught
3. Get killed
4. Reload
5. Repeat ad infinitum.

So we need a way to escape either by killing, fleeing, stealth, guile or whatever.

 

One issue is some dungeons contain points of no return and/or doors that only open after a boss is killed.  If you can't get back up the hole you jumped down through or kill the boss then you are stuck in the dungeon.  So we need a way to take down that boss.

 

But everybody is going to have a different idea of the perfect bound combat system.  There are two ways to deal with that.  One is configurability, of which DCL is a shining example with its huge MCM.  Another way is modularity.  You plug in what you want.  The nice thing about modularity is that you don't have to carry the overhead of stuff you don't use.  This is important for those of us who use potatoes for computers.

 

I suggest that DD only contain only features which must be intimately tied to it.  Everything else can be a separate mod.

 

For "bound casting", I didn't like the new BWitch. I use Smart Cast instead.  If DD included BWitch in its current state I would probably turn it off.

 

For "tattoos that buff" I would suggest a separate mod like "Dibellan Defender".

 

DD should focus on its core function and providing good script interfaces to all of it so that it's as easy as possible for mods to add functionality.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

DD should focus on its core function and providing good script interfaces to all of it so that it's as easy as possible for mods to add functionality.

I agree with this, but Kimy is very fond of monolithic all-in-one solutions where everything can easily be joined up, and you can predict what information will be available at a minimum.

 

We already have a lot of mods that alter the DD experience - we have defeat mods, we have buffers and debuffers, we have progressive masochism, we have body modifications, at least four mods that do high-heel addiction, and so on - but Kimy wants strong combat features to be reliably present in DD, and at the moment they aren't. There isn't a mod that adds more combat to DD, and it's hard to do because DD actively disables attacks in various circumstances - though it often fails to work properly for NPCs. Mods like SLD and BWitch can certainly render it more or less effective though - as do several items in DCL - and there is an alpha of SLD that handles different modifiers for all the major DD keywords. I think there will be a release in a couple of weeks.

 

It's not a clear-cut right or wrong, and there are some parts of bound combat that have to be in DD really - the core animations at least - for the items that are supported in DDa/DDx.

 

I can imagine the outrage if she'd put this stuff in DCL instead.

 

If things like the skill system aren't in DD, then they have to be in an add-on that's a master, or there will be endless problems with it. I think I know why Kimy doesn't want any more parts to DD: there are already enough people who can't manage a working install with the existing three parts, despite endless advice and help, they seem determined to construct invalid configurations, and clog up forums with their complaints that repeated efforts to do things that aren't supported "mysteriously" do not work.

 

From an informed player perspective, mix-and-match mods is better. But from a developer perspective, one mod to rule them all is less trouble.

 

From a modding perspective, what I'm doing now, and what I want to do in the future, is mainly about ways to tie disparate mods together so they can work more coherently. What I find is that a few mod authors don't like that. They want to obstruct it, and they get angry that some other mod might be used to change their "vision" of what their mod was about. Others are completely on-board with the idea and want to enable it. The existence of these two strongly-opposed points of view is a hint that other divisions exist on how best to make everything work.

 

 

In this case, Kimy gets to make the choice, and she has to do the work as a result (or is it the other way around?) The debate about modular functionality seems to be done as far as I can see. So given that the solution will be more monolithic, we need to find the up-sides in that and look at ways to minimise the drawbacks.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

For "bound casting", I didn't like the new BWitch. I use Smart Cast instead.  If DD included BWitch in its current state I would probably turn it off.

They aren't even comparable. One sets out to offer more freedoms for a bound character, the other is a dedicated auto-casting mod.

 

It's ludicrous to suggest that any feature in DD will ever approach what Smart Cast is trying to do. The impact of Smart Cast goes far beyond bound characters.

 

The way that bound casting works in BWitch is pretty basic, and a little awkward to use. The same kind of functionality at the base-DD level wouldn't need to be so clunky, because DD could let you equip the spells and cast the spells normally, but simply replace the animation with magical nipples or some nonsense. So that would be a benefit overall.

 

I guess my take on this is that if DD included Smart Cast in its current state, I would probably turn that off.

 

As it happens, I don't use the bound casting in BWitch.

 

I don't like the idea of bound casting, and I don't like the BWitch execution of it either. I installed it almost entirely for the talk-through-followers feature, which is primarily a little crutch for immersion. However, I found the masochism features fit well with Spank that Ass. I could wish they were better integrated with the StA masochism level, but that's another matter. The modifiers in StA are not well communicated, and lack the strong feedback you get from BWitch.

[worik]

12 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

would it be possible to reinvent them for the DD series?

+1 ...(and desperate aroused but not orgasming mimics) we need a reason for the 3rd person camera view

[Zaflis]

So there are some ring gags that are missing keyword zad_PermitOral and so prevents eating and hides food menu (hope i don't miss anything):

 

DDa:

- 0401614C zad_gagHarnessRing_scriptInstanec (overriden by DDi with keyword)

- 04016154 zad_gagStrapRing_scriptInstance (overriden by DDi with keyword)

 

DDx:

- 0601F6C8 zadx_HR_IronRingGagRendered

- 0601FC40 zadx_HR_RustyIronRingGagRendered

 

DCUR:

- 0704B064 dcur_lb_ringgag_scriptInstance

[Darkpig]

Isn't there something of a buff system in Cursed Loot when wearing restraints. It would be good for that mod as I don't know of any other mods that have you trapped in a dungeon or crypt tied up like a Christmas present. Other mods have you go on a field trip around the surface of Skyrim where you could easily outrun monsters by swerving around obstacles or getting someone to kill the monster for you.

 

Whether or not I convinced you I have a couple more ideas for buffs.

 

You could give the player a pacification power while tied up with a 5 minute cooldown so they can be a pacifist but not abuse it to get free hits in. The other is not so much an Idea but a possible change. My idea is that you could make it possible to only make kicks strong against non human actors since bestiality is not your kink from what I understand.

[slicksly]

As for combat in bondage - one could always go for the telekinetic / animated weapons-route, where you'd be able to use a in some way limited ability (perhaps charged by arousal, allowing one sec usage per point, or some derivative value thereof?) to allow regular weapons combat, although without any visible hands or arms from the player character. Weapons would animate as usual (without bondage), but first person arms for weapons wouldn't display, and third-person body would still be locked in armbinder / yoke.

 

 

[MaikCG]

6 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Facial expressions!

endorsement

and gag sound on sex scenes

[HexBolt8]

Regarding combat in bondage, that seems outside the scope of a framework for restraints, something better handled comprehensively by a separate mod.   Bound combat is not only tricky to balance (many existing approaches heavily favor mages) but also difficult to make it fun.  A dedicated mod could handle balance and fun in depth. 

 

Also, any approach that handles arm binders but not yokes would be incomplete.  If yoked combat requires a new animation, and new animations are a show stopper, this might not be the best time for implementing bound combat. 

 

Code-only solutions

 

(For times when you're stuck in a one-way area)  A DD debug option "Remove arm restraints".  You've miraculously escaped, or the gods smiled on you.  Should come with an optional debuff in exchange your heroic escape.  Cheating?  Of course, though less so with a significant debuff, and arguably no worse if not better than being able to kick a boss to death with your arms tied behind your back.  However, this won't help with quest restraints.

 

A DD debug option "Rescue me".  Player is moved to the entrance of a dungeon or nearest inn.  Outside the scope of a devices framework, but it's a debug option to continue your game, and it's simple in concept.  Might break some quests.

 

A DD debug option "Send help".  A vanilla follower NPC miraculously appears at your location to fight for you and, depending on mods like DD Helpers or Devious Followers, help with your heavy bondage.

 

Balance

 

Each of the suggestions above comes with a cost:  a debuff, losing time (having to travel back), or paying a follower (could be very costly with Devious Followers).

 

I favor trading one problem for another rather than making my character into a bound fighting machine.  I'm just not fond of bound combat.  If I'm playing a warrior, archer, or mage, I want to fight using those skills, so dealing with arm restraints ideally should be a non-combat solution.  If I am bound, I think I should feel helpless and have to rely on stealth, speech, avoidance, a follower, or other alternative methods to improve my situation. 

 

Role Play

 

In lieu of bound combat, players could choose to simply deal with it on their own and attempt to escape non-quest arm restraints, or give up and surrender to an enemy (trading one problem for another).  If deep in a dungeon, the player might want to force a simple slavery outcome for surrendering so as not to just be stuck again.  With minimal console knowledge one can port in a follower rescuer, turning a problem into an opportunity to try out that new follower NPC that you've been wanting to try. 

[CheddarTrauma]

15 hours ago, Zaflis said:

So there are some ring gags that are missing keyword zad_PermitOral and so prevents eating and hides food menu (hope i don't miss anything):

 

DDa:

- 0401614C zad_gagHarnessRing_scriptInstanec (overriden by DDi with keyword)

- 04016154 zad_gagStrapRing_scriptInstance (overriden by DDi with keyword)

Any corrections to DDa are intended to be done through DDi, instead of making changes to DDa, that's why DDi overwrites DDa entries. It's by design.

Since DDi added the missing keyword, those two devices will permit oral.

[Code Serpent]

For Bound Combat, I'd prefer making evasion easier rather than making the player a killing machine when her hands are bound. Instead of increasing raw damage, increase the stagger of attacks, so that the player can stun her enemies for long enough to either run away, or run further into the dungeon. I think also adding stealth buffs or psuedo-muffle/invisibility would be appropriate, ie enemies won't attack or otherwise pay attention to a bound character, because what threat could she possibly be with her hands tied?

[Code Serpent]

Another small thing, can we please take the model for the black leather hood

devious\Hoods\old_leather_hood.nif

use retextures of that for the other hoods, and get rid of the god-awful executioner's hood model?

[Code Serpent]

One last suggestion. To make devices work better on NPCs, I think we need to add some code to the zadEquipScript to swap out the NPC's normal outfit for an empty one, so the vanilla outfit system doesn't override the devices:

//On Device Equipped
	if(npc.WornHasKeyword(zad_DeviousSuit) || npc.WornHasKeyword(zad_DeviousHeavyBondage))
		npc.SetOufit(zad_NakedOutfit, false)
	endIf
//

//On Device Unequipped
	if(!npc.WornHasKeyword(zad_DeviousSuit) && npc.WornHasKeyword(zad_DeviousHeavyBondage))
		npc.SetOutfit(npc.GetLeveledActorBase().GetOutfit(), false)
	endIf
//

 

[CovertDemon]

I can't seem to get the pet suit sex animations running, in spite of having used FNIS after installing the latest development version.