Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Diziet]

49 minutes ago, Diziet said:

Hi all,

 

I too prefer to use the "DD mode" for blindfolds. Unfortunately, because I prefer to use the ENB's (Realvision) post processing and don't want to apply 'UseOriginalPostProcessing', the result is a "DD mode" that is way too subtle. Don't get me wrong, the DD effect does work. The way the the ENB's post processing works means that only the soft focus part of the effect works well, but the view barely gets any darker. As a result, wearing a blindfold isn't really much of a hinder. And that's what my initial question was about. I'm not complaining, ti's a minor quibble really. The question really was if the setting could be tweaked to compensate for the use of the ENB's post processing so the darkness could be adjusted beyond it's original max setting. If that's impossible or too complicated to implement, that's absolutely fine.

 

 

Hmmm,

 

I am now officially confused....

I just launched a new game without ENB, and as far as I can see, the DD blindfold effect is exactly the same as with ENB... ?

 

The thing is: I do have a very clear memory from when I started modding skyrim over a year ago that at one stage, I had a blindfold effect that left me in almost total darkness, and could be adjusted. I suppose it was devious devices...

 

Is it possible that the DD team changed the way the blindfold effect is applied in the mod since then, could it be another mod that applied the effect I remember, or is my memory totally fecked up?

 

I didn't take my previous post down for everybody's reference, no intention of spamming....

 

hmmm

confused

so veeeeeeeeery confused.....

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Diziet said:

I too prefer to use the "DD mode" for blindfolds. Unfortunately, because I prefer to use the ENB's (Realvision) post processing and don't want to apply 'UseOriginalPostProcessing', the result is a "DD mode" that is way too subtle. Don't get me wrong, the DD effect does work. The way the the ENB's post processing works means that only the soft focus part of the effect works well, but the view barely gets any darker. As a result, wearing a blindfold isn't really much of a hinder. And that's what my initial question was about. I'm not complaining, ti's a minor quibble really. The question really was if the setting could be tweaked to compensate for the use of the ENB's post processing so the darkness could be adjusted beyond it's original max setting. If that's impossible or too complicated to implement, that's absolutely fine.

Just darkening it might not really be the correct fix in this case. You need to confirm first.

The issue is how it is darkened. It would seem (and I'm merely speculating here) that Realvision's shader for the ISMs doesn't apply the "Cinematic" Brightness value in the way vanilla does, and fudges the values according to other inputs.

 

You do not need to be able to rebuild any scripts from DD to modify the ISMs. A basic CK setup will do it.

 

You can try editing those ISMs in the CK yourself, to darken them up, and see if it fixes anything. If that works, then adding alternate ISMs that can be enabled via a toggle box would be viable, I think, and DD could do that.

 

If it doesn't, it's beyond DD's power to fix. In that case, you would need to modify the way the RealVision post process shader works, or give in and turn on UseOriginalPostProcessing.

Modifying shaders is by no means crazy magic. There are guides and tutorials, and lots of examples, just like everything else.

 

In Antique Dragon, it's dark enough at 100%, and most ENB lighting setups are pretty dark inside, or at night, to begin with, so darkening the screen only slightly makes a big difference. With a blindfold indoors you will face appropriate difficulties. Many times, outside at night, I've got lost in the dark without being blindfold, especially in the giant overgrown reaches of Whiterun Forest with Simply Bigger Trees, where you can't see more than a few meters in front of you, even during the day. With a blindfold, no map, and no compass, immersion is ... substantial  Anyway, AD is not a realistic ENB, but Caffeine is, or claims to be, and I'd say similar issues apply. Using ELE Lite as well seems to slightly brighten things up, but not much.

 

I suspect RealVision's behaviour is related to the handling of scene brightness. It is very likely modifying how it uses the brightness modifier value from the ISM based on other knowledge it has about the scene, possibly using special knowledge about the "sun light". It might be that this behaviour is somewhat wrong and should be changed. You have to experiment to see what you like.

 

Generally, ENBs are so tied to weather mods that it's not feasible to swap one for another mid-play, but doing it won't break anything as long as you don't touch your mods, and just change the ENB. Try some other "realistic" ENBs (just the ENB part) and see if they solve the problem. ENB and Re-Shade Manager makes it easy to keep multiple ENB profiles. If you find one you like, you can swap to its preferred weather on your next play.

[Diziet]

24 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Just darkening it might not really be the correct fix in this case. You need to confirm first.

The issue is how it is darkened. It would seem (and I'm merely speculating here) that Realvision's shader for the ISMs doesn't apply the "Cinematic" Brightness value in the way vanilla does, and fudges the values according to other inputs.

 

You do not need to be able to rebuild any scripts from DD to modify the ISMs. A basic CK setup will do it.

 

You can try editing those ISMs in the CK yourself, to darken them up, and see if it fixes anything. If that works, then adding alternate ISMs that can be enabled via a toggle box would be viable, I think, and DD could do that.

 

If it doesn't, it's beyond DD's power to fix. In that case, you would need to modify the way the RealVision post process shader works, or give in and turn on UseOriginalPostProcessing.

Modifying shaders is by no means crazy magic. There are guides and tutorials, and lots of examples, just like everything else.

 

In Antique Dragon, it's dark enough at 100%, and most ENB lighting setups are pretty dark inside, or at night, to begin with, so darkening the screen only slightly makes a big difference. With a blindfold indoors you will face appropriate difficulties. Many times, outside at night, I've got lost in the dark without being blindfold, especially in the giant overgrown reaches of Whiterun Forest with Simply Bigger Trees, where you can't see more than a few meters in front of you, even during the day. With a blindfold, no map, and no compass, immersion is ... substantial  Anyway, AD is not a realistic ENB, but Caffeine is, or claims to be, and I'd say similar issues apply. Using ELE Lite as well seems to slightly brighten things up, but not much.

 

I suspect RealVision's behaviour is related to the handling of scene brightness. It is very likely modifying how it uses the brightness modifier value from the ISM based on other knowledge it has about the scene, possibly using special knowledge about the "sun light". It might be that this behaviour is somewhat wrong and should be changed. You have to experiment to see what you like.

 

Generally, ENBs are so tied to weather mods that it's not feasible to swap one for another mid-play, but doing it won't break anything as long as you don't touch your mods, and just change the ENB. Try some other "realistic" ENBs (just the ENB part) and see if they solve the problem. ENB and Re-Shade Manager makes it easy to keep multiple ENB profiles. If you find one you like, you can swap to its preferred weather on your next play.

thanx for your answer, and your patience, @Lupine00

 

you are a treasure trove of information.

 

You confirmed what I sorta suspected with my very limited knowledge of modding.

 

As you can see in my previous post, as of now, I am not even sure what I remember anymore...

 

Anyways, I am planning on doing a complete re-install of Skyrim, MO, SKSE, the whole shebang, because I am pretty sure that I messed quite a few things up given my total lack of modding knowledge when I started over a year ago. I am really just waiting for Deviously Cursed Loot 7 to get released before attemptingthat, hey @Kimy???

 

So for the moment, I am just going to shut up about the blindfold thing, 'til I (hopefully) achieve a clean install. I don't want to be a source of confusion and misinformation unless I'm sure of what I'm saying...

 

 

[El_Duderino]

2 hours ago, Diziet said:

Is it possible that the DD team changed the way the blindfold effect is applied in the mod since then, could it be another mod that applied the effect I remember, or is my memory totally fecked up?

I think the only somewhat recent change (or the only one I can remember) was to make Leeches Mode the default setting (was originally DD Blindfold in which you can't move while in 3rd person view). The "total darkness" you describe resembles closely the Dark Fog setting, try this one. This could be what you want. Set the strength to maximum and the distance to minimum and then try to find your way back home. ☠️

[GreatCroco]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

My personal motivation is for dialog conditions to be able to trivially recognise the player state, and past events, and respond to those. This is a basic of RPG design - the game must remember the player's actions (good or bad, win or lose) and commemorate them - if we are to create an illusion of consequence.

 

However, they can be used for much more than dialog, particularly the obvious ones like "Slave" or "Submissive."

  

Isn't it better to provide a rich framework, with something as cheap as factions, because once a mod is written without them, it's less likely they'll be added later, and if they aren't there to start with, they can't be added, or will be duplicated. Same argument as keywords really.

I think that feature would be better off in a separate lightweight mod that keeps track of a players relative stance towards a player. This would mean a future mod is not tied to DD when they don't want to offer bondage or NSFW content. You could make the mod even SFW use and incorporate (i.e. an expanded Yarl system)

You then could also code it without factions, which happen to become bugged, and instead with an SKSE plugin which tracks the standing with an internal HashMap (or similar storage). A lookup into that should be many times faster than going through the faction system.

Modders then would register a "faction" into the mod and could then query how the player/an NPC stands towards that faction. 

 

I had a similar idea many months ago, but with my current free time I simply cannot afford to go back into Skyrim modding at all.

[Kimy]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Due to the lack of DD furniture appearing, or any word about it beyond some vague suggestions that it's even a project, I'm looking at adding my own devices.

It is a project we're actively working on. Not sure what part of that is "vague". I also shared some features of the new framework code with the general public already, which should give people an idea of what it can do. I can also confirm that the code is pretty much in a release-ready state. Beyond that, I do not need feel any need to write weekly progress reports, honestly. No, I am not talking ETAs. I never did that, and never will do that. Like every other project I am working on, it will be released when it's done.

[Kimy]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Are we going to see a new DD with built-in factions to drive dialog and other mod functionality?

 

Yes.

[CheddarTrauma]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Incidentally, to get DD mode working with Immersive First Person, I use an IFP configuration where I can hotkey IFP or standard Skyrim FPV.

This means that I can use IFP most of the time, and then, if I'm in a blindfold, I can use DD mode, still get crystal clear third-person sex scenes, and pop into Skyrim FPV when I want to move about.

Would you mind sharing your IFP configuration.

[Lupine00]

17 hours ago, Techpriest said:

I think that feature would be better off in a separate lightweight mod that keeps track of a players relative stance towards a player.

I agree. I'm asking about this, trying to find out whether that is the plan, and where the factions will go, if they are added...

 

16 hours ago, Kimy said:

It is a project we're actively working on. Not sure what part of that is "vague". I also shared some features of the new framework code with the general public already, which should give people an idea of what it can do. I can also confirm that the code is pretty much in a release-ready state. Beyond that, I do not need feel any need to write weekly progress reports, honestly.

Thanks.

 

Vague, in that I saw a post on the DCL forums along the lines of this happening, but it wasn't first hand information, and I think we know that information that isn't first-hand makes trouble on the internet sometimes... Sometimes it is made up, sometimes it is simply muddled. So, I thought I'd try and get some clarity ... and to be fair, anyone who "knew" could have pointed me at the code.

 

So, this is the first concrete information I'm getting.

 

I certainly didn't ask for weekly progress reports, though you might find that they would be read quite enthusiastically.

 

 

If code was made available, you could simply point me at it instead of spanking me for daring to ask.

Or if its in git, giving a hint what change it's associated with would be informative.

 

16 hours ago, Kimy said:

On 9/15/2018 at 3:42 PM, Lupine00 said:

Are we going to see a new DD with built-in factions to drive dialog and other mod functionality?

 

Yes.

 

Good news.

 

Could you ... for example ... or anyone else who happens to know ... post a list of the factions and what they are intended to represent?

Or is this also in some code somewhere? In git perhaps?

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, hylysi said:

Would you mind sharing your IFP configuration.

Basically, I have the IFP config for sexlab: 

And then some very minor changes... 

 

; !bindkey 0x69 0 "ToggleIFPV" -- comment out this line near the top of the file

 

put this instead (if you don't like G, choose another key instead) I use G because it's next to F, so the swaps are similar.
 

; Make 'G' toggle IPV
!bindkey 0x47 0 "ToggleIFPV"

 

Where it says this ...

; set both false if you don't want to overwrite vanilla FP, you could instead use then custom keybind
!set bZoomIntoIFPV true
!set bToggleIntoIFPV truefalse

Change line above from true to false.

 

And incidentally maybe you want this:

In this section:

{SLProfile}
(bIsActive==true)
(Keyword&SexLabActive)

...

+set fRestrictAngleVertical 5070

Change vertical from 50 to 70, and you could probably go higher TBH. At times an animation makes you look up, when you want to look down, and you can't, unless you have some extra slack.

 

I also changed...

+set fPositionOffsetVertical 0.51.5

Which for me moved the eye point to exactly align with blindfolds, and not look through the mouth of gags. Maybe it was a placebo though.

 

There is a line that says...

; Remove the "disable" on next line to make all combat in vanilla first person view.
;disable

I strongly recommend removing the disable, as I have (by commenting it out in this case).

 

 

The result is that F toggles vanilla first person, G toggles IFP, and scroll wheel scrolls in and out of IFP.

Also, use Num-6 to disable the shaky head tracking during normal play, it is turned back on for sex anyway, if you want first-person sex.

I'm not convinced it's as awesome as the mod author would have you believe Most often you're just looking at clipping, and you're constantly fighting head animations that aren't considerate of where you might want to look.

But the ability to have more look freedom in bondage is good, and the config also sets up two distinct modes for IFP, so it's a good tutorial.

 

I also have things to make auto turn happen, but you might not want that, in any case there is help on how to do it.

[Kimy]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I agree. I'm asking about this, trying to find out whether that is the plan, and where the factions will go, if they are added...

The new factions will be a part of DDI and not a separate mod. They are most useful for mods using DD in some fashion anyway. so I don't see the point of making them a standalone mod.

 

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Thanks.

 

Vague, in that I saw a post on the DCL forums along the lines of this happening, but it wasn't first hand information, and I think we know that information that isn't first-hand makes trouble on the internet sometimes... Sometimes it is made up, sometimes it is simply muddled. So, I thought I'd try and get some clarity ... and to be fair, anyone who "knew" could have pointed me at the code.

 

So, this is the first concrete information I'm getting.

oO

 

I have posted about the upcoming furniture mod all over the place. If it's got my name on, it's first-hand information!

 

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If code was made available, you could simply point me at it instead of spanking me for daring to ask.

Or if its in git, giving a hint what change it's associated with would be informative.

 

I haven't yet published the code. I will once we got enough furniture devices ready to allow meaningful testing.

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Good news.

 

Could you ... for example ... or anyone else who happens to know ... post a list of the factions and what they are intended to represent?

Or is this also in some code somewhere? In git perhaps?

The list isn't as long as yours. We mostly add what's needed for slavery and prostitution applications, as these seem to be the most common ones for DD mods.

[Jappa123]

Unlocking Bondage Mittens are still bugged ? I dont have newest beta but i guess there wasnt any fix related to Bondage Mittens.

 

Anyway there is something wrong with unlocking sequence? order? Not sure how to describe it.

 

Basically window pop up that Bondage Mittens fall off your hand then another window pop up that device is too difficult to unlock and you need to wear it a little longer(something like that) and after that if we try again there is again same window that Bondage Mittens fall off your hand and after that another window pop up that "you are still tired from last attempt..... and you can try again in about 2 hours".

 

@Kimy BUG REPORT 

 

[Kimy]

I will have a look at it!

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

Ah I dont know if its only on my side.

 

When you equip the pet suit and have high heels on your feet and initate sex it misalignes with someone who has high heels on. (align high heels ticked in sexlab)

 

I dont want a fix or so since I can put the high heels off when in the pet suit but just wanted to report.

[CovertDemon]

Been meaning to ask: how does the Devices Underneath menu works?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out: You go to a specific slot (ex.: Head) and choose which devices it hides. Kinda wish that the device hider hides the fact that your character is visibly bound, though.

[Majin Buu]

On 9/18/2018 at 5:18 AM, Jappa123 said:

Unlocking Bondage Mittens are still bugged ? I dont have newest beta but i guess there wasnt any fix related to Bondage Mittens.

 

Anyway there is something wrong with unlocking sequence? order? Not sure how to describe it.

 

Basically window pop up that Bondage Mittens fall off your hand then another window pop up that device is too difficult to unlock and you need to wear it a little longer(something like that) and after that if we try again there is again same window that Bondage Mittens fall off your hand and after that another window pop up that "you are still tired from last attempt..... and you can try again in about 2 hours".

 

@Kimy BUG REPORT 

 

Yeah I'd like to confirm I got this same bug recently.

[Lupine00]

Just a thought...

 

Why not Hardcore Armbinder/Elbowbinder?

(Would use AA items of regular armbinders, but with a different Armor item, with variant description and script).

 

Adds the Bondage Mitten "no pick up" effect to binders... (Assuming you enable that effect). Albeit with different text messages.

 

Seems logical to me.

 

It never made sense to me that you can use your hands in an armbinder, but not in mittens.

IRL, it is way easier to pick-up and manipulate things in mittens with unbound arms, than in a palm-to-palm arm-glove-binder, with your arms bound behind your back and just about popping out of their sockets.

 

Has the benefit that you no longer need to equip mittens AND armbinder for quests that currently equip both (such as LBA).

 

And the less equips/de-equips, the less items running scripts, the faster it all goes.

[rjn]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 11:52 PM, Lupine00 said:

Just a thought...

 

Why not Hardcore Armbinder/Elbowbinder?

(Would use AA items of regular armbinders, but with a different Armor item, with variant description and script).

 

Adds the Bondage Mitten "no pick up" effect to binders... (Assuming you enable that effect). Albeit with different text messages.

 

Seems logical to me.

 

It never made sense to me that you can use your hands in an armbinder, but not in mittens.

IRL, it is way easier to pick-up and manipulate things in mittens with unbound arms, than in a palm-to-palm arm-glove-binder, with your arms bound behind your back and just about popping out of their sockets.

 

Has the benefit that you no longer need to equip mittens AND armbinder for quests that currently equip both (such as LBA).

 

And the less equips/de-equips, the less items running scripts, the faster it all goes.

The armbinder is a seriously miscast bondage item in it's current incarnation. 

 

I remember the earliest days of this mod (and DCL) when it acted like a real armbinder:

You couldn't use activators or crafting or pick up anything, it was impossible to unlock by yourself and you could not fight.  That was a device to really fear.  Before you opened that ornate chest at the end of the dungeon you better make sure all enemies are dead and the exit is open first.  This was the reason for the "sharp object" mechanic being added (in DCL) and why it made sense for ornate chests to have their own "higher risk" setting.  If you couldn't go forward (through enemies/locked doors) you could retrace your path looking for containers and hoping to find sharp objects or maybe just run away and find someone to help.  It was realistic (mostly) and fun and scary! But gradually, options were changed and even became non-optional and the armbinders became nothing more that a pair of fancy gloves that prevent fighting with your hands and removing other devices.  I wish we could go back to that more realistic armbinder or at least have some settings to simulate that mechanic.

[RegisteredUser]

...You know, that sounds pretty great. I wasn't around for those times, but I do remember versions of DD where armbinders and other "wrist restraints" kept you from opening your inventory.

 

I know that the current iteration of DD is intentionally built to not get in the way of regular gameplay very much, so that people can do full playthroughs while still enjoying the kinky gear at the same time. And there's nothing wrong with that - sometimes you just want to go dungeoncrawling without being interrupted. But having an option for a more hardcore mode, whether through the installer or through the MCM, sounds like a nice idea.

 

If this is something that might be considered, what is the DD team's position on reconsidering what effects restraints have in general? I've always had the feeling that some restraints are great but some others fall short of their potential. Never made a suggestion because it felt like you guys had enough on your plate and that it might be too much in terms of changes. But if splitting restraint effects into a "gameplay mode" and a "realistic mode" (or whatever you wanna call them), then this might be a useful discussion to have.

[MaikCG]

I made for myself a sound replacer for rubber FX DDE. You can add it as option/extension for DDE if you like it.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, rjn said:

But gradually, options were changed and even became non-optional and the armbinders became nothing more that a pair of fancy gloves that prevent fighting with your hands and removing other devices.  I wish we could go back to that more realistic armbinder or at least have some settings to simulate that mechanic.

In the current setup, bondage mittens are much worse than binder. If you have them set to hardcore.

PoP has its own restraints, that stop everything, and act in the "old school" way.

It's all very well if you want to put the player on a railroad, and that's what PoP is, not gameplay, but sit back and watch. It's a movie, not a game. It's great until you get bored of it.

 

 

On the topic of "hardcore" items...

 

I've been running about in boots a lot this weekend (in game, not so much IRL) and the boots slow-down mechanic is ... simply boring.

 

Too many mods slow you down, it's the default "go to" effect for every mod that wants to give you a penalty for something.

I've got MME slowing me down with giant boobs, DCL putting DD boots on me, frostfall making it hard to trudge through the snow, Apropos slowing me from the pain of my damaged orifices... And there are more mods that mess with speed than that.

 

Here's an alternative possibility. Something a bit more fun, a bit more interactive.

 

• _{Firstly, no slow down from the boots, because it's not needed. You choose whether to walk or not using the existing game controls for walk, run and sprint.}
• _{If you turn on "force walk" (caps lock or whatever), you can walk in boots, and only very occasionally you will fall over. In fact, if you're in a house, or a shop, or an inn, or some other place with a nice flat floor, you're perfectly safe and will not fall.}
• _{If you run, you fall over ... fairly often ... depending on the boots, the cell type, and your difficulty setting.}
• _{If you try to sprint, you will very quickly go ice-skating on your face.}
• _{If you try to sneak, boots will make noises, and you may well fall over too.}
• _{Maybe you could choose to crawl? Especially on rough terrain, where even walking you still fall a lot. Crawling has issues though, so maybe not. Also, hard impossible to crawl in an armbinder.}

 

When you fall over, you should take some damage. The faster you go, the more damage you take.

If your arms are useless, and strapped behind you, you should take a LOT more damage (but it should be a percentage, so you don't just die of it - instead it makes you vulnerable in a fight).

And if you're in a blindfold, multiply up the chance of falling again.

 

If you try to run in boots and armbinder, you might expect to take hits around 75% damage.

 

It should be possible to sprint a tiny bit, but it should be a gamble. There should be consequences for falling, not just cosmetics. You might take 90% damage from a sprint fall?

Now that "full bondage" set doesn't seem so ... toothless any longer, does it?

 

However, the frequency of falling should be dramatically reduced outside of combat, and contrastingly increased when you are in combat.

 

So... It would be possible to run from Dawnstar to Windhelm, in boots, without dying of boredom, or of cold, but when you're in a dungeon, those boots are really punishing, unless you force-walk, and sneaking is not an option. And every fall, you're worrying this is the time you'll get jumped by attackers while you're weak.

 

There's already a falling over animation (though adding ragdoll to it might spice it up a bit). I already have mine turned up so it happens a lot, but it's totally random, and largely cosmetic, and weirdly slow, like it's playing at the wrong speed.

 

 

I'm tempted to make some boots like this, and try them out - see if they can be made interesting.

 

Obviously, pony boots shouldn't do this, you need to be able to run in those. A quest like LBA could then fit pony boots to give you a sporting chance.

 

 

With the right mechanics, a mod like Deviously Helpless isn't even needed, because boots+armbinder-girl just falls flat on her face, and takes so much damage that a basic bandit can hit her once and knock her into bleedout and defeat. Presumably, the rapes and additional bondage ensue after that.

 

Just need to make it so "friendly" NPCs can be triggered to rape when you fall over. Much more immersive than "boots make helpless", albeit, more bother.

 

I'll add it to my long list of "things there'll never be time to code in Skyrim" and leave it at that.

 

[Kimy]

Without using mods that severely slow down healing, inflicting damage on the character outside of combat is super pointless, because they will heal up in mere seconds. You fall, take damage, stand up, continue walking, and chances are almost 100% that you're fully healed before taking the next fall, or getting attacked. Also, that idea is really arbitrary, because that's NOT how these devices behave in real life. People wearing heels don't fall all the time just because they are wearing heels. That happens if you're truly careless, which we already reflected with the little random event that would make you trip over your heels every now and then.

In DD we often "toned down" how devices would behave in real life to accommodate gameplay considerations. Which is why a DD blindfold doesn't make you 100% unable to see, as this device would in real life. It still affects your vision. DD armbinders are less punishing as they'd be in real life too, for they allow you to unlock yourself, which is really impossible to do in real life. What we try to avoid is giving devices really far-fetched effects, though.

[CovertDemon]

Sorry for the repeat, but are there script limitations that make impossible the use of the Devices Underneath feature to make it so that the game doesn't consider you visibly bound when wearing devices under armor? I mean, if your character wears a full-face helmet and you have set it so that headgear hides devices like gags...

[Reesewow]

38 minutes ago, CovertDemon said:

Sorry for the repeat, but are there script limitations that make impossible the use of the Devices Underneath feature to make it so that the game doesn't consider you visibly bound when wearing devices under armor? I mean, if your character wears a full-face helmet and you have set it so that headgear hides devices like gags...

I may be wrong, but I think the "you are visibly bound" mechanic is part of Cursed Loot, not DDi itself.  I haven't looked into how it works myself, but I assume that mechanic is based on DD/vanilla keywords attached to the PC, and has nothing to do with the Devices Underneath system. 

 

It may be possible to have specific helmets cause gags/blindfolds to be "hidden" as far as visibility is concerned, but that might be pushing it IMO since so many people use custom armor or armor replacers that make things like the steel plate helmet open-face on females.  It would be up to Kimy if it would make sense to try to have "visibly bound" status depend on whether or not any items are being hidden by the device hider, but it would probably make the system a fair bit more complicated.  

[Darkwing241]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

Without using mods that severely slow down healing, inflicting damage on the character outside of combat is super pointless, because they will heal up in mere seconds. You fall, take damage, stand up, continue walking, and chances are almost 100% that you're fully healed before taking the next fall, or getting attacked. Also, that idea is really arbitrary, because that's NOT how these devices behave in real life. People wearing heels don't fall all the time just because they are wearing heels. That happens if you're truly careless, which we already reflected with the little random event that would make you trip over your heels every now and then.

In DD we often "toned down" how devices would behave in real life to accommodate gameplay considerations. Which is why a DD blindfold doesn't make you 100% unable to see, as this device would in real life. It still affects your vision. DD armbinders are less punishing as they'd be in real life too, for they allow you to unlock yourself, which is really impossible to do in real life. What we try to avoid is giving devices really far-fetched effects, though.

I 100% agree that out of combat damage is not the way to go, but I have been wrestling with the idea move speed debuffs and high heel for a while.  To me the interesting parts of skyrim come in the encounters and less so in the walking to places.  Now its fun to watch your character strut in her new heels every once in a while but I mostly just want to get to the next encounter (combat/social/sexual/whatever).  At the same time the bondage-y elements of heels are part of what makes them a fun part of DD.  IRL that comes in the form of slower movement (easy to do in skyrim) and a different stance/walk (harder), so most mods go with move speed debuffs.  It's just that slow movement isn't all that fun sometimes. 

 

My personal ideal would be to maximize the excitement when it matters and minimize it when it only serves to create long stretches of boredom.  I would propose a mechanic that switches on and off (or scales) in and out of combat or in certain areas.  I think it was Wintermyst that has "marathon" items that boost speed out of combat so I know there is at least a lever to pull for that mechanic.  Other potential options would be to enable debuffs in areas where encounters are more likely, like towns and dungeons. 

 

You would have the same amount of encounters with the same struggles on the way back from Iverstead, it just wouldn't take 20 minutes between each one.