Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[seanthiar]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

 

......

 

Secondly, gags, with or without this feature don't bring normal Skyrim to a halt anyway.

Even if potions are blocked, a gag is a minor problem compared to things that occupy armor slots, or stop you holding a weapon or casting spells.

........

 

I think that's wrong - I play heavy magic based, that means shouts and casting. No weapon. Yesterday I had to use a savegame because of a restrictive gag and restrictive handcuffs. The gag had stopped the use of shouts, I think so because shouts did not work, but there was no message when trying to shout - it simply did not work, but you could cast. The collar was worn before the gag and with it you could shout. Then the hand and feet where bound with a restrictive piece and the PC was unable to fight in any way and leaving there with the amount of enemies was without hope.

BTW personally I think it would be nice if you could use worn bounds as a weapon. For example even if the hands are linked with a chain you could use the chain to hit or to choke your enemy. If your hands are in metal mittens a hit with them should be painful. They use the armor and weapon slots why give them feature as such. There is normal armor in skyrim "gloves of the pugilist" that gives you a bonus for a brawl. Can be found in the ratway in Riften. When you learn the enchantment from the gloves you can put it on gloves, gauntlets or rings. Maybe it could be put on DD-items for the hands, too. There are DD-items with armor-features like the fighting dress or berserkers uniform. Maybe an idea to think about. Makes one hit with cursed loot not 100% helpless if alone.

[Lupine00]

22 minutes ago, seanthiar said:

I think that's wrong - I play heavy magic based, that means shouts and casting.

I'm playing mainly in the "weak girl" style now, and that means casting, but no shouts, because I'm not the dragonborn.

 

I play not the dragonborn so often, I tend to forget about shouts entirely. Losing them doesn't stop your progress though, I do fine without, and with many other ... obstacles ... to face.

 

If you play a heavy melee (which I've done a lot), DD items that stop 2H use, or block armor really screw you up, as does MME's armor removing behaviour.

 

The DCL quests often ignore this play style, and consider only casters. If you're a melee, those quests are punitive, despite some mitigations that Kimy added fairly recently.

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Firstly, @Kimy, aren't your changes to bound combat intended stop DD items bringing play to a halt? So your argument seems to run counter to your other argument. I'm not being purposely obtuse. Maybe I mis-remember it?

That's right. Bound combat is there to prevent the player getting stopped dead in her tracks every single time she gets locked in wrist restraints, allowing DD quest designers to use these items more freely and in more situations, including outdoors.

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Secondly, gags, with or without this feature don't bring normal Skyrim to a halt anyway.

Even if potions are blocked, a gag is a minor problem compared to things that occupy armor slots, or stop you holding a weapon or casting spells.

Correct. And that's the difference, right there. The no-potion/food feature has a -very- minor impact on vanilla Skyrim, and vanilla Skyrim is what I am mainly concerned with when balancing DD. Even with needs mods in play, the character won't starve -immediately-, so she's got plenty of time to find a solution other than reloading the game. It doesn't remotely compare to wrist restraints.

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I think this point deserves special focus: "I can't possibly design DD around literally every other mod out there."

Well ... broader issues aside, DD would be notbaly more compatible if it didn't take away all your consumables when gagged. So, in terms of compatibility, it's a bit of an easy fix. The decision not to be compatible seems quite conscious.

If I wanted DD to be compatible to literally every other mod out there, I could easy achieve this by deleting all of DD's code and make its devices 100% cosmetic. Otherwise, there will ALWAYS be some mod people have installed that will clash with DD. As I said a gazillion times, that's the nature of bondage content. The more realistic you implement it, the more it will take over gameplay.

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

My take on this is that needs mod interference - which is one key aspect of this - should be handled by patching the needs mod, not by removing the food.

From a purely technical point of view, yes, the cleanest solution would be the needs mods being aware of restraints. But that's nothing I can solve from my end. I won't butcher other people's mods with unsanctioned patches that change their features and mechanics. I don't like it when people do it with my mods, so I won't do it to them, either.

 

Needs mods are balanced against vanilla Skyrim, too. They have the same right not to have to balance against 3rd party mods everyone else does. I am also pretty sure that nobody ever went to their support threads and complained about how their mods are breaking DD by killing gagged players. Generally, people seem to have the opinion that whenever there is a clash between DD and some other mod, it's DD that has to get out of the way. I don't subscribe to that point of view. My approach is that I help when I can and care about that other mod enough (which is why DCL has several features to mitigate negative effects of needs mods), but otherwise DD has the same right to exist the other mod has. When in doubt, players will have to choose what's more important to them.

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

In practice, the best arguments for this feature are:

a) it exists already

b) people are used to it

If the feature wouldn't be already in, I'd add it for reason c) it makes sense and gives gags an interesting mechanic, making DD overall more interesting and immersive.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Didnapper said:

Would it be possible to write a custom shader to create an effect similar to the blindfold effect in Motel Bondage (4th screenshot, or starting at 00:31 in the video)? Or a shader which causes everything except the player character to be black, but reveals specific objects (containers), like in "Non-Actor Detection Shaders: Skyrim Modding Tutorial"? Or a shader which causes everything except the player character to be black, but adds the Aura Whisper shout effect, and Clairvoyance?

The problem here isn't making the shader.

 

The practicality pivots more around how you indicate what items you want visible and invisible. That's not just going to happen magically for zero effort.

 

With ENB you may be able to make it happen in a mostly procedural way, based on knowledge about the item type that's inferred by ENB from the shader, and is already used by it to select improved shaders.

 

WIthout ENB, you'd probably need to modify the materials for just about every item in the game, and it seems like it would be hard to get it to work in any practical scenario.

 

More importantly, the person most motivated to do this is you, so if you want it, you should probably start learning ENB  

 

 

11 hours ago, Didnapper said:

Temporary Escape from Devices

 

I had an idea for a way to provide temporary escape from devices while in the middle of a dungeon run, for people who don't use followers, or for temporary removal of a gag to eat/drink.

 

My idea was to add a set of Greater Powers, usable while bound/gagged, named along the lines of "Contract of Sight", "Contract of Voice", "Contract of Touch", etc. By using one of these Greater Powers, (non-quest) devices of a specific type are removed from the player character, and they become immune to further devices of that type for X amount of time. However, afterwards, the player character is equipped with an inescapable device of that type for Y amount of time.

I'd vote for this feature ... if there were ever a vote ... which there probably won't be.

[Darkpig]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:06 AM, Kimy said:

From a purely technical point of view, yes, the cleanest solution would be the needs mods being aware of restraints. But that's nothing I can solve from my end. I won't butcher other people's mods with unsanctioned patches that change their features and mechanics. I don't like it when people do it with my mods, so I won't do it to them, either.

 

Needs mods are balanced against vanilla Skyrim, too. They have the same right not to have to balance against 3rd party mods everyone else does. I am also pretty sure that nobody ever went to their support threads and complained about how their mods are breaking DD by killing gagged players. Generally, people seem to have the opinion that whenever there is a clash between DD and some other mod, it's DD that has to get out of the way. I don't subscribe to that point of view. My approach is that I help when I can and care about that other mod enough (which is why DCL has several features to mitigate negative effects of needs mods), but otherwise DD has the same right to exist the other mod has. When in doubt, players will have to choose what's more important to them.

Food and potion isn't just impossible to consume it has literally disappeared. So with that said trying to store potions and food in chests are super awkward. Don't tell me there is nothing you can do because I know there are several workarounds for that bug. Of course you don't have to fix this.

On 6/4/2019 at 9:06 AM, Kimy said:

That's right. Bound combat is there to prevent the player getting stopped dead in her tracks every single time she gets locked in wrist restraints, allowing DD quest designers to use these items more freely and in more situations, including outdoors.

We are still talking about the vanilla Skyrim right? It isn't exactly Doom levels of difficulty even with just fists or in this case legs.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 9:06 AM, Kimy said:

If the feature wouldn't be already in, I'd add it for reason c) it makes sense and gives gags an interesting mechanic, making DD overall more interesting and immersive.

On 6/4/2019 at 9:06 AM, Kimy said:

If I wanted DD to be compatible to literally every other mod out there, I could easy achieve this by deleting all of DD's code and make its devices 100% cosmetic. Otherwise, there will ALWAYS be some mod people have installed that will clash with DD. As I said a gazillion times, that's the nature of bondage content. The more realistic you implement it, the more it will take over gameplay.

So I could just store 1000000 potions in my gag then take it off later at a storage area so I don't have to be overencumbered. Immurshion.

[Whizkid]

idk whats the argument is all about FFS this is a framework, i.e. the basic backbone for all BDSM stuff same as sexlab its a fucking framework, if it sorts of breaks other mods then these mods have to find ways to work around that NOT fucking break a framework and bend it towards said mods period!!!!

 

I fully agree with the direction that Kimy and her team is taking i.e. first and foremost create a framework for the base game i.e. skyrim and it's DLC and not cater to any whims and fancies of other mods.

 

so just stop pestering Kimy and her team let them do their job which they are doing great!!!!

 

my 2 cents

[Darkpig]

38 minutes ago, Whizkid said:

idk whats the argument is all about FFS this is a framework, i.e. the basic backbone for all BDSM stuff same as sexlab its a fucking framework, if it sorts of breaks other mods then these mods have to find ways to work around that NOT fucking break a framework and bend it towards said mods period!!!!

 

I fully agree with the direction that Kimy and her team is taking i.e. first and foremost create a framework for the base game i.e. skyrim and it's DLC and not cater to any whims and fancies of other mods.

 

so just stop pestering Kimy and her team let them do their job which they are doing great!!!!

 

my 2 cents

And have the whole thread go silent? I think not!

 

If the team can't handle a little constructive criticism then hey I'll back off. You are right in saying this is a framework which is why It confuses me why any MCM there in the first place if the DD team is making it a "framework" as you say then it should be mostly cosmetic. The code will obviously still be there but it is up to the individual modders to change the devices is it not or am I missing the whole point of a framework?

 

I would love to help but I am getting mixed signals.

[Whizkid]

25 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

And have the whole thread go silent? I think not!

 

If the team can't handle a little constructive criticism then hey I'll back off. You are right in saying this is a framework which is why It confuses me why any MCM there in the first place if the DD team is making it a "framework" as you say then it should be mostly cosmetic. The code will obviously still be there but it is up to the individual modders to change the devices is it not or am I missing the whole point of a framework?

 

I would love to help but I am getting mixed signals.

really i am totally confused by your statements, the plain vanilla skyrim doesnt have sex or any bdsm content, hence this site which creates a framework ontop of this vanilla game i.e. skyrim, the framework here add new systems besides the questing and combat system, therefore it's important for it to be as general as possible but within the framework which it's trying to achieve obviously some mods could not work within that so patches has to be made or mod to be design around this, like in real life everyone has different taste and needs so Kimy and team has to decide where that ends and so far SHE and her team did an outstanding job, it's not an easy job but in her mind she has a set of rules and goals which has to be cast in stone or else its a fucking FREE for ALL...

 

just put yourself in her shoes i.e. if u are running the show, how would u do it, with the big picture in mind..., dont have to look far really just look at Star Citizen, where is it heading really after getting all the money...., imo it's not gonna finish anytime soon as long as dumb people keep throwing money at Chris and feed his altered ego...., fact is he make more money selling shiny ships...

 

my 2 cents

[Darkpig]

On 6/6/2019 at 2:02 AM, Whizkid said:

really i am totally confused by your statements, the plain vanilla skyrim doesnt have sex or any bdsm content, hence this site which creates a framework ontop of this vanilla game i.e. skyrim, the framework here add new systems besides the questing and combat system, therefore it's important for it to be as general as possible but within the framework which it's trying to achieve obviously some mods could not work within that so patches has to be made or mod to be design around this, like in real life everyone has different taste and needs so Kimy and team has to decide where that ends and so far SHE and her team did an outstanding job, it's not an easy job but in her mind she has a set of rules and goals which has to be cast in stone or else its a fucking FREE for ALL...

 

just put yourself in her shoes i.e. if u are running the show, how would u do it, with the big picture in mind..., dont have to look far really just look at Star Citizen, where is it heading really after getting all the money...., imo it's not gonna finish anytime soon as long as dumb people keep throwing money at Chris and feed his altered ego...., fact is he make more money selling shiny ships...

 

my 2 cents

1. I am the one trying to find the logic here. Since there is no logic then there is clearly a problem. I just say it as I see it.

 

2. Conflict is going to arise whether or not a product is free cause that is how things are.

 

3. I would probably do it more effectively but hey I am just here because I like it here.

 

PS: Look in Haelgas room there is some kinky BDSM stuff in there.

[Kimy]

On 6/5/2019 at 1:56 AM, Lupine00 said:

I'd vote for this feature ... if there were ever a vote ... which there probably won't be.

Bad news: I don't do polls. At least not here. I might (and in the past have) give my Patreon supporters a say like that, because I feel that's the one thing I can do for people who support me financially. But I have never and will never run polls about the future of my mods on LL.

 

Good news: In this case it's not necessary, because I actually like the suggestion. Expect it to happen in some form. Although not in the framework (it's out of scope for that). It will probably go into DCL.

[Kimy]

Ok, so here is the first DDX development release. It's no longer available on GitHub, so I am going to provide MEGA links instead. To install, you NEED to have the official DDX release 4.2 installed FIRST!!! Do NOT remove DDX version 4.2 before installing these patches. Install OVER 4.2. and overwrite when prompted! Batch-build in Bodyslide before playing!

 

For CBBE use:

https://mega.nz/#!bdVCzK6a!lJyUy-AGwLD0Uqci-HSDo69oHHyR8N65xIoRlbKpHTA

 

For UUNP use:

https://mega.nz/#!iVVgAISC!QtRVr_1rrP_7LhDovB74Tn1_3EFDUEU_4ttjRsYsk-g

 

Changelog:

 

- Added: 34 rope devices made by Supertin!
- Added: 13 new gags and collars made by Collygon!
- Fixed: The Transparent Open Eyes Hood no longer applies a blindfold effect.
- Fixed: The Inventory item from Red Leather Blindfold (Custom) now uses the correct rendered item.

[Zaflis]

On 5/26/2019 at 10:06 AM, Zaflis said:

So there are some ring gags that are missing keyword zad_PermitOral and so prevents eating and hides food menu (hope i don't miss anything):

 

DDa:

- 0401614C zad_gagHarnessRing_scriptInstanec (overriden by DDi with keyword)

- 04016154 zad_gagStrapRing_scriptInstance (overriden by DDi with keyword)

 

DDx:

- 0601F6C8 zadx_HR_IronRingGagRendered

- 0601FC40 zadx_HR_RustyIronRingGagRendered

 

DCUR:

- 0704B064 dcur_lb_ringgag_scriptInstance

Old ones still miss keyword, and now 1 more to the list of non-blocking gags that are incompatible with Realistic Needs, blowjobs etc. :

DDx:

- 06049C7A zadx_hood_rubber_openface_transparent_Rendered

 

I mean it's just 1 keyword, should be quick to add? 

But gj on new items, now i have to see them ingame...

 

Also a minor grief that DDx items don't have a Bodyslide group filter at all, nor a name with each item starting with DDX_. Many other mods follow this practise, now these items are mixed in a list a little bit between every other modded item.

 

Edit: Seeing the transparent hood ingame, it does open so much that nose is out too but actually it does cover mouth. Therefore it doesn't need the keyword.

 

They look great, all of them!

[alyaya]

has the bound combat changes shipped yet? the bound combat damage seems same even when wearing a bunch of dd equipment.

[mangalo]

Thanks for the update.

 

Weren't there plans for a new rubber suit ?

[Kimy]

21 hours ago, mangalo said:

Thanks for the update.

 

Weren't there plans for a new rubber suit ?

These were on Supertin's to-do list, but I do not know his current plans for the item, or its status.

[Kimy]

23 hours ago, alyaya said:

has the bound combat changes shipped yet? the bound combat damage seems same even when wearing a bunch of dd equipment.

The changes are in the DDI development branch. They haven't been merged in the official release yet.

[Code Serpent]

Another suggestion for a future version. Certain cuffs, especially the leather cuffs with the rings, look like they could be linked together to be more restrictive. So, I think the cuff scripts should be extended, so that they can equip invisible restraints, or restraint variants like the corset script, that act like armbinders or legbinders, simulating the cuffs being linked.

[Kimy]

10 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

Another suggestion for a future version. Certain cuffs, especially the leather cuffs with the rings, look like they could be linked together to be more restrictive. So, I think the cuff scripts should be extended, so that they can equip invisible restraints, or restraint variants like the corset script, that act like armbinders or legbinders, simulating the cuffs being linked.

Such a feature has been in DCL for years (dating back to before I took over DD development). Maybe I need to port it back to the framework!

[worik]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

Maybe

*cough*

Yes, please.

[Zaflis]

4 hours ago, Kimy said:

Such a feature has been in DCL for years (dating back to before I took over DD development). Maybe I need to port it back to the framework!

It would also be nice if the linking together (thinking at least the rubber gloves now) would be an additional lock that has to be opened before the actual lock that removes the gloves (or now cuffs). Now when you open the link it removes the gloves, and there are no things like begging npc to unlink them. Even with key i assume if there's a padlock between wrists, player would only be able to use restraint key on the link and not gloves if they reach above elbows and locked with another lock.

 

If you are wearing mittens, getting out of them on your own could be rather difficult. And i think mittens themselves always include lockable rings.

[Rocketracer4]

Apologies if you've answered this already, but I didn't see it anywhere. Supertin's workshop thread mentioned some maid themed items a couple of months back. Any word on if those will be included?

[Kimy]

16 hours ago, Rocketracer4 said:

Apologies if you've answered this already, but I didn't see it anywhere. Supertin's workshop thread mentioned some maid themed items a couple of months back. Any word on if those will be included?

They will not be in 4.3. I have no idea what Tin's plan for these items is.

[Addasus]

Thanks for the update. I really love the new ropework.

 

Is anyone else having some texture issues with the new "extreme" gags? For most of them, the straps are all purple, like they're missing textures, while the one labeled purple is a pixelated mess. The gags themselves are showing up just fine though.

 

Also, is anyone else having issues with the "Panel" gags disappearing? When first equipped, they're fine, but if I equip another item, or if I go through a load screen, such as loading a save or exiting a doorway, they disappear. I've only ever seen this happen with this item.

 

Going to put some requests here, (not for 4.3 obviously) if you don't mind:

 

New devices:

 

Bell piercings that ring if you move quickly and provide a sneak debuff

 

Nipple piercings linked together with a chain (I know there's a collar with chained piercings, but I mean directly)

 

Completely closed variations of the (Open Eyes)/(Open Face) hoods.

 

Thigh high pony boots

 

New textures:

 

Versions of the ebonite catsuits with the same shade/sheen as the Restrictive items set.

 

Fill in the "missing" color variations of some items like the Pony Play Boots only being in black.

 

Hopefully some of these ideas are interesting to others as well.

 

Thanks again for all your hard work!

[SelosTeef]

Hello Kimy, I made a comment in the main DDi thread and El_Duderino said that I should come here.

 

Basically, I made a mod that edits some aspects of how DD works, but for that I had to edit some core scripts.

 

8 hours ago, SelosTeef said:

Hey, I don't know where to ask this but, is there a way to get permission to publish a mod I made that edits a few aspects of how DDi works?

 

 

It basically does this:

 

- Adds a boost to your unarmed damage (depending on your One or Two Handed skill level and what kind of boots you're wearing) when bound, so combat like this is a little more viable (can be disabled or enabled at any time in the MCM)

 

- Automatically plays gagged sounds at any time when wearing any sort of gag (within configurable intervals, can be disabled)

 

- Disallows/allows lockpicking when bound, or when barefoot only but with a debuff (configurable, can be disabled)

 

- Adds a (configurable) chance that when picking up an item (putting it into the inventory), it'll be dropped onto the ground when wearing wrist restraints (basically the feature bondage mittens from DDx have, but for all wrist restraints) (again, can be disabled)

 

- Readds a feature that works sort of like the "Brute force" option that existed in earlier DD versions (at least I think so, I never played with those older versions myself), basically instead of just showing a "You can't do this with your hands bound" message when trying to interact with any device that is not the wrist restraint itself, it'll play the struggling animation before showing a more immersive message based on what kind of device you've tried to remove. Basically just for the people who like to watch their character struggle with a nice little flavor message.

 

 

I ask because I had to edit some scripts from DDi and a couple from DDx, namely: zadArmbinderEffect, zadArmbinderNoLockpicks, zadEquipScript, zadPlayerScript, zadx_BondageMittensEffectScript and zadx_HobbleSkirtEffectScript.

So for this reason, I don't know if I can publish my mod as it edits those scripts, because it will certainly cause compatibility issues with future versions of DDi.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I shouldn't be asking this here. Thank you for your time.

He said I should get in contact with you, to see if the code I wrote is good enough and if there's a way to get at least some of the things I made implemented into the framework.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Kimy]

- Adds a boost to your unarmed damage (depending on your One or Two Handed skill level and what kind of boots you're wearing) when bound, so combat like this is a little more viable (can be disabled or enabled at any time in the MCM)

 

I have added a comprehensive feature for bound combat in the newest DDI development version, so this would be redundant with it.

 

- Automatically plays gagged sounds at any time when wearing any sort of gag (within configurable intervals, can be disabled)

 

Sounds fun. I'd merge that!

 

- Disallows/allows lockpicking when bound, or when barefoot only but with a debuff (configurable, can be disabled)

 

Ditto. Can go in, with a MCM toggle.

 

- Adds a (configurable) chance that when picking up an item (putting it into the inventory), it'll be dropped onto the ground when wearing wrist restraints (basically the feature bondage mittens from DDx have, but for all wrist restraints) (again, can be disabled)

 

Hm, not sure about this one. People find the mitten mechanics borderline too harsh already, and it can be argued that most other wrist restraints except the armbinders would not really prevent you from picking up stuff, as they don't seal your hands.

 

- Readds a feature that works sort of like the "Brute force" option that existed in earlier DD versions (at least I think so, I never played with those older versions myself), basically instead of just showing a "You can't do this with your hands bound" message when trying to interact with any device that is not the wrist restraint itself, it'll play the struggling animation before showing a more immersive message based on what kind of device you've tried to remove. Basically just for the people who like to watch their character struggle with a nice little flavor message.

 

Not sure I have understood you correct, but what you describe is how the system in DDI works, except that not all device types have struggle animations.