Devious Framework (DFW)

[donttouchmethere]

31 minutes ago, JocienMontrose said:

So far I don't feel like playtesting. I just enjoy playing the game.

??

[arbiter]

11 hours ago, JocienMontrose said:

Great stuff arbiter!

So far it doesn't feel like playtesting. I just enjoy playing the game.
Already encountered a few nice surprises.
The only technical issues are a couple of dialogues that time out without anything happens.

I really like what you're doing here!

 

Great to hear! Any time you find a dialogue that just times out you are welcome to let me know which one it is, there are a lot to go through and it's not always obvious which ones are definite dead ends.

[donttouchmethere]

On 9/6/2019 at 8:27 AM, arbiter said:

Don't use on a real save. 

What?

Too late!

xD
 

after activating all DFWS MCM settings (incl the SD+ leash) in LAL I got a copy of the PC close by too (must have been loaded into the cell later, wasn't there on the first few save/load cycles)

Although I can't see her, she must be there according to DEC console NPC monitor.

Normally the own PC (Onryou) shouldn't be recognized by DEC.

Still my Mini-Me is invisible:

Spoiler

 

[Zaflis]

Need to test this (3.02alpha) more but i had 1 go of a leash game last night. Firstly the MCM is set to base chance 50% to get free and max duration was 30 minutes (gametime). Over the course more than 2 whole days the game hadn't ended, and in fact i never did get it to end. It started with a chat dialog with some female npc in Morthal jarl's house. I kept doing "smack talk" to see if there are any punishing acts but apart for some leash yanks, no DD or ZAP/SD+ furniture was used.

 

But then meanwhile 2 other mods interfered and things got interesting. First the bondage furniture world. I stole 2 sacks of coins from a shelf so what happened to be the leash dom was the one in charge whipping me in some indoor furniture. So she went away and i waited.. and waited. And then T key waited a couple more hours and got teleported outdoors for a town walk. Some 4 bandit guys appeared to apparently teach me a lesson for stealing... and ofc they defeated me and then Dragonborn in Distress defeat triggered and i was put in all kinds of restraints, although the bandits disappeared and i was back on leash with her.

 

So now she decided my restraints should be removed and we go to some blacksmith like npc, leash was temporarily put on the anvil but soon taken off. Dom goes away and leaves me with him, who is on constant follow and wants me to have back facing him while working on restraints. So after a very long time (of many ingame hours) he had managed to replace gag, boots and collar with his versions. But chastity belt, wrist shackles behind back, nipple piercings and some plug still remained on, and he stopped working no matter what i did. No complaints anymore about me having to turn around and so on, just kept on follow. That felt too bugged and i just loaded game back to before leash game, it was fun though... but by MCM settings it should have been over way way earlier.

 

There were attempts of sex acts in the middle of blacksmith thing but they became solo animations because of chastity belt and gag.

[arbiter]

Yeah the conversation system was half-finished, I mainly just rigged it up so it could actually get you leashed in the first place. Not sure how much over the next week or two I can focus on fixing it up, very busy, but I will see if I can mess with it some.

 

I need to take a look at the max duration and etc., I haven't looked through that code.

 

Out of curiosity, what is your timescale set to? Vanilla 20?

 

Sorry for the various troubles. Glad it was fun at least!

 

In other news, the whole reason I decided to update this was to see if the bug had been fixed where this kept Campfires normal fire lighting from working. It looks like Legume got that fixed!

[Iceslave]

I'm liking the improvements with the continuation, especially being able to initiate the leash game through conversation.

 

One comment though, my character got enslaved a couple of times by people who then dragged her inside their homes ... and then they complained of trespassing. Things got complicated after that. This could be because I'm running a conversion to have it running on Skyrim SE ?

 

Anyway - good work, thanks for taking up the development !

[donttouchmethere]

3 hours ago, arbiter said:

I need to take a look at the max duration and etc., I haven't looked through that code.

DFWS has a lot of settings that influence the chance that the leash game ends.

Fine tuning wasn't easy with 2.6 already.

 

To set a duration isn't enough, because if the one of the other factors prevents the leash game to end, it will continue and game duration will be recalculated.

This repeats until non of the set factors prevent a recalculation.

Means if the leash game is set to end after 6 min it only means that after 6min the factors will be checked again and if the check to end fails the game continues again for 6min.

This repeats endlessly until one of the other options are chosen, like transfer to furniture or walks to SS.

 

The one factor that seems to have most effect is Dominance and Anger.

Those settings are very sensible. If the PC tries to escape too often or resists the anger Rises.

Wouldn't even know how to check the Dominance.

 

Anger was one of the settings that prevented the end of the leash game the most.

Rising it over 50 will already make sure that the PC will be bound in a long game, especially if you test the possible resists.

 

Also as far as I know, the time settings are in RL minutes. Not in game time.

So settimescale should have no effect on the setting of min/max duration.

It say MCM v3.02 now real game minutes, in v.2.6 it said RL minutes

What is real now?^^

 

To end the Leash game fast and reliable:

Max Duration: short duration

Chance of Release: <40

Dominance: <40

Anger: <40

 

Also there was an Issue with furniture transfer if non is registered close by.

If lucky the leash game just ends.

Spoiler

>

 

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, arbiter said:

In other news, the whole reason I decided to update this was to see if the bug had been fixed where this kept Campfires normal fire lighting from working. It looks like Legume got that fixed!

I totally forgot that DFW/S wasn't compatible with campfire.

Since a few weeks I use Campfire now and just installed DFW/S on top of it.

So far no issues. At least Campfire works flawlessly.

 

[t.ara]

zap 9 should work with this without a patch

i would kill the dialogues or exchange/reduce them with something more simple-the repetition is boring

dialogue is always dangerous if there are no randomized variations-that´s why i stopped playing this mod

from it´s basic´s, this is a very fine mod-so this are only some suggestions

...and the lock-mechanics are not working (not seriously/continuously working) -maybe zap 9 will have something better to offer, soon

 

Regards to legume-anyway, a modder, who shared and explained his code and his work...rare happening!

[donttouchmethere]

v3.02 in combination with NDUNdefeat and furniture transfer

 

If defeated by NDUN (Naked Dungeons) there is a chance to end in zaz furniture.

NDUN spawns furniture if non is near.

The NDUNfurniture is not permanent and will despawn as soon as NDUN needs to spawn a new one.

 

But the cool thing is: DFW/S recognizes those.

Means if after defeat the PC gets locked into zaz furniture there is a chance that a bandit comes over and locks the PC into it.

That will -understandably- everything harder for the PC and the mods ^^

 

To my surprise it all worked out rather well.

NDUN locked the PC into furniture after defeat

PC struggled free but just in this moment -even in the heat of a battle- a NPC bandit came over and DFW/S locked the PC in.

 

In addition Devious Helpless triggered a SL scene on the PC locked in furniture

PC gets released from the furniture and ...that's the good part... after SL is finished locks the PC back into the furniture =D

 

The game would go endlessly because I don't know how to escape if no suitable NPC to unlock the furniture is near.

There seem to be no alternative emergency release other than debug.

 

Would be better like this:

> original DFWS NPC will do the release

> if not the DFWS alternative release kicks in

> if not and after waiting a certain amount of time there should be an random event to help the PC escape

(spawn NPC, flag an rescue NPC like the escort NPCs from SLS or the SS+ slave hunter from DF)

(or mini struggle game)

 

v2.6 could make the PC get stuck in furniture to far away of any NPC

(with NDUNhelpless feature I have now more possible NPC too, because all nearby evil NPC get calmed)

v3.02 is better already, because the locking NPC stays close dependent on the settings. But if no NPC is near it has the same issues as v2.6

 

Spoiler

DFWS initial lock time is set to zero.

 

Helgen: After NDUNdefeat the PC gets locked into NDUN spawned zaz furniture

(sorry blindfold makes it dark and only red illumination active lol)

 

Bandit NPC -calmed by NDUNhelpless feature - locks PC into ZAZ

 

 

Deviously helpless runs SL scene on PC, while in the background bandits still fight an unleveld troll from SLpheromones, while new Bandit-NPCs get spawned by Encounter Mod (new in load order so settings bad and endless bandits spawn => endless fight against the lvl 200+ troll, while bandits are low lvl 1-30)

 

After this little intermezzo the bandit locked the PC back into the furniture and continued to fight that now deviously helpless (?) calmed troll and wasn't able to start anything on the PC

 

After it turned out that this will go endlessly and no damn CTD was about to save me I used DFWSdebug to escape the furniture ^^

Successful escape, and the game is still playable!!!

 

The good part on all of this:

> DFWS didn't get stuck

> no CTD or freez from conflicts

> DFWS furniture lock quest didn't stop after other mods run SLscenes on PC, they just locked the PC back in

 

[donttouchmethere]

16 minutes ago, t.ara said:

zap 9 should work with this without a patch

i would kill the dialogues or exchange/reduce them with something more simple-the repetition is boring

dialogue is always dangerous if there are no randomized variations-that´s why i stopped playing this mod

Although DFWS is one of the few mods that make intensive use of your created furniture.

I would say the best if not so bugged (while DD compatible)

 

(and SANDBOX style!)

[arbiter]

1 hour ago, t.ara said:

zap 9 should work with this without a patch

Nice! I hope that is the case with other mods as well. I've been dreading having to redo my whole modded game just to get zap 9 (I would totally do it though, it looks amazing).

 

If you want me to test with it of course I'd love to, let me know

 

1 hour ago, t.ara said:

i would kill the dialogues or exchange/reduce them with something more simple-the repetition is boring

dialogue is always dangerous if there are no randomized variations-that´s why i stopped playing this mod

Legume has a huge system for randomizing the dialogues, but it never reached a finished state. The current checks for dialogue are also not explained well as far as dominance and which npcs are dominant (random) and etc., but I agree I could see it getting boring having to go through the same 5 steps to get leashed every time. I hope that at some point I can arrange for different outcomes and states of anger doing more than just keeping you leashed longer (though I think there might be a few things right now that happen, IDK). 

 

1 hour ago, t.ara said:

...and the lock-mechanics are not working (not seriously/continuously working) -maybe zap 9 will have something better to offer, soon

Like @donttouchmethere says above the locking mechanic seems to be working too well, haha. 

 

1 hour ago, t.ara said:

Regards to legume-anyway, a modder, who shared and explained his code and his work...rare happening!

Yes I wish I had his experience, if I'm going to keep this going I'll need to catch up in a major way. It may not seem like it but this mod is super complex and what Legume had in mind is even more complex. Hoping I can get some time in the next few weeks to do more than answer questions about it on the forum.

[t.ara]

1 hour ago, arbiter said:

Nice! I hope that is the case with other mods as well. I've been dreading having to redo my whole modded game just to get zap 9 (I would totally do it though, it looks amazing).

 

If you want me to test with it of course I'd love to, let me know

 

Legume has a huge system for randomizing the dialogues, but it never reached a finished state. The current checks for dialogue are also not explained well as far as dominance and which npcs are dominant (random) and etc., but I agree I could see it getting boring having to go through the same 5 steps to get leashed every time. I hope that at some point I can arrange for different outcomes and states of anger doing more than just keeping you leashed longer (though I think there might be a few things right now that happen, IDK). 

 

Like @donttouchmethere says above the locking mechanic seems to be working too well, haha. 

 

Yes I wish I had his experience, if I'm going to keep this going I'll need to catch up in a major way. It may not seem like it but this mod is super complex and what Legume had in mind is even more complex. Hoping I can get some time in the next few weeks to do more than answer questions about it on the forum.

More complex is not the way- the way is to look about the vanilla work, the more close your mod is working like the vanilla stuff is, the better it will run. 

Sadly is DFW always interrupting a furniture lock-this is simply not ideal made. Furniture lock seems to me the best inside of the furniture itself, not on a quest-mod. We will check that out. Those interrupted furniture lock is for me no solution and I know why it is happening.

 

There is a fallout4 video with a quester, who explained, how to create randomizing dialogues. FO4 has more beter CK, same to create with CK of skyrim takes much more time. Anyway can you find out there, how it works.

 

With a little luck is ZAP soon autonom and has all lock-functions at exactly those places, where they are needed.

[donttouchmethere]

On 9/10/2019 at 8:34 PM, arbiter said:

Like @donttouchmethere says above the locking mechanic seems to be working too well, haha. 

lol yes, that's actually a good thing until... it gets hopeless.

 

Good news:

Successfully finished a leash game incl teleport to SS+ from Morthal.

Incl: bondage, prostitution, SS+ transfer

Took one night (ingame) and was via the "bad girl" dialog triggered with a SLS Enforcer.

DFWS Leash game ended successfully after PC got sold to SLUTS via SS+

(SS+ v6.04 with DFW configuration)

Awesome =D

(no furniture transfer, because none registered nearby)

 

Bad news:

If the leash game starts on a PC that is about to get teleported by another mod = ⚠️ CTD

This is the same issue as with v2.6

Mods that can teleport the PC during leash game will cause CTD:

> SLS

> DEC if not SD+ local enslavement

>  defeat mod transfer to SS+

 

Would it be possible to export the DFWS registered furniture to a jason file?

 

EDIT: timescale 8

[Zaflis]

22 hours ago, arbiter said:

Out of curiosity, what is your timescale set to? Vanilla 20?

Yes the unmodified 20.

 

Also a request, could this mod stop when bondage furniture world activates?

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/6200-bondage-furniture-world-crime-punishment/

I feel like these have conflicting behaviour. It's like double-locking player in a furniture and you can't get out. Nobody seems to oversee or visit after waiting some hours. Pointing the furniture and pressing E is only partially releasing player, just not giving back controls and glitching invisible or smth. That was some weird pole furniture anyway where player was set set hanging wrists up, camera firmly stuck in the pole so you can't zoom out or rotate it. I truly hope ZAP9 addresses camera issues...

[arbiter]

Not sure how to detect another mod about to teleport you... hmm.

 

I've not messed with json files before, it's something to think about rather than having to register furniture over and over.

 

4 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Also a request, could this mod stop when bondage furniture world activates?

 

I'm not actively working on this at the moment and when I can pick it back up, next on the list is probably dialogue stuff. For now if you have bondage furniture world you're probably getting locked in a lot as-is, and you might just want to set the lock/unlock percentages of this mod down to 0. 

[donttouchmethere]

8 hours ago, arbiter said:

Not sure how to detect another mod about to teleport you... hmm.

just need to check the ... oh no not so easy... if in doubt ask @Verstort

[donttouchmethere]

8 hours ago, arbiter said:

I've not messed with json files before, it's something to think about rather than having to register furniture over and over.

maybe @zaira has an idea about how to export game data to jason

[donttouchmethere]

Managed to break DFWsupport.

DFWS-MCM is empty (while DFW still works), guess a scene is stuck.

Known issue from v2.6.

Tried the debug functions from DFW MCM without success.

I have no clue how to kill the obviously stuck DFWsupport scene.

Maybe a kill them all emergency button is needed?

 

DFWS still has control over the PC but nothing happens, only that the PC is stuck.

I can play on tho if I deactivate in ZAZ MCM debug release PC from AI control.

[saviliana]

Had to report this fix campfire bug, but lead into rest anywhere unable to get up again (can lie down, but can't get back up).

[Zaflis]

26 minutes ago, saviliana said:

Had to report this fix campfire bug, but lead into rest anywhere unable to get up again (can lie down, but can't get back up).

I have used the rest anywhere sleeping at couple inns so far just fine, just get up with jump key. But i don't actually know what mod added the resting spell anyway because i once again turned on so many mods i don't normally use. I thought it's from either SLDialogues or SD+.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, saviliana said:

Had to report this fix campfire bug, but lead into rest anywhere unable to get up again (can lie down, but can't get back up).

"Rest anywhere" spell is from SLdialog.

 

DFW+S doesn't cause a campfire bug anymore (as far as I tried it => build camp, sit, build fire (and see fire + smoke), cooking, perks n stuff

 

And Zaflis is right, jumping should stop the "rest anywhere idle"

 

If you can't jump - for what ever reason (low SP for example, overencumbered(?)) - start a SLmastrubation animation via SLAR (press N for a while)

or if SD+ is installed press the surrender key and chose "ragdoll"

 

If you have "go to bed" and campfire and spooning for campfire =>  be sure to use newest version of "go to bed" and don't overwrite the animations from spooning with go to bed animations (or your PC gets stuck)

[donttouchmethere]

More feedback, something positive for a change:

If a slaver starts a leash game and dies for what ever reason (?‍♂️) the leash and the game gets cancelled successfully (wasn't always the case before).

Also it seems -IIRC- that legume found the culprit that civil NPCs always attack and help the PC if he attacks the slaver.

I got a fat bounty on my head now.

 

It takes a while until the leash game ends if the slaver is down, do not panik ?

(luckily tavern patrons don't do much damage)

[Jappa123]

@arbiter

Did you check device remove scene by blacksmith? got it right after leash enslavement on 3.02 and it seems broken - blacksmith removing device for ever also scene is really "soft" someone player need turn back and cant move so basically npc can randomly push player even blacksmith sometimes push player and whole scene fall apart

 

Sell items scene works really well, i didnt test it on 3.02 but it was ok even in github version but ffs selling every item and cant get them back is way too harsh is there any way to add some chest or option to buyout them back from merchant? 

 

Btw

Good job you manage to fix dialogues but before i had armbinder equip outcome now always leash game outcome

 

oh i just got armbinder outcome but its not working anyway 

[Zaflis]

Another "sad to say but" thing, that leash game is not compatible with SD+ masters. There's 4 ways to get master game to end:

1) kill him, 2) steal key from him, 3) run away, 4) get help from other npc.

 

Now, option 1 was a no go as it was my invulnerable follower. Option 2 was not possible because when sneaking and hidden it still opened talk dialog instead of pickpocketing. Option 3 was not possible because of leash yanking me back. Had a few goes with asking for help too but with 10% catch chance from MCM he saw every talk attempt even from other room.

 

There was also option 5 that i used Devious Lore to struggle out of the collar. Master thing nor leash didn't end though, he soon noticed and reapplied the collar.

 

And 1 of the leash yanks was getting me stuck in a firepit which i managed to fix with debug key i think from SD+ (Home). So i just set leash mode to Off, propably for the best.

 

On the upsides i had more goes with the furniture autolocking and npc locking. Those games do work and finish, although you may want to increase the odds of npc releasing you. Teasing chance 66% is propably in good spot. My only disappointment was that neither leash game or SD+ master used 2 existing furnitures in the inn. SD+ spawned a new cage at one point temporarily.