Sacremas Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 it looks like its going to be a "new" game https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/742200753520050176 so all our existing installs and saves and mods are safe. but unless fore and skse come out of retirement, it will never get the same level of modding as current skyrim. seriously cant they just go make the next elder not online scrolls already? they are just milking existing success for the new consoles. kinda like for fo4 they are going to require you have a pc licence via steam to upload xbox mods, meaning you have to buy the game twice if you want to mod xbox after that point. To be fair this was probably fairly easy for them to do. Fallout 4 started developement with them porting Skyrim to x64 according to Todd Howard in an interview, where he said that no they were not releasing that, but soon after there actually came a whole lot of demands towards Bethesda to release that. You also have to realize they don't give a flying turd about the PC community regarding this, this is 100 % for the newer console generation to cash in on that easily, which is why they are giving this to us without charging and in a reasonable way... because otherwise we wouldn't care for it at all. If they updated Skyrim to use Fallout 4's animation system, then that would actually be great, yes all animation mods except replacers would have to be remade but we wouldn't need FNIS any more. Totally true about SKSE though, and probably the likes of SkyUI as well, and ENBs. I'm just not seeing this catching on a lot except for those actually wanting to provide console users mods... of which there may not be very many. Overall this whole thing is just a stopgap, the team that made Fallout 4 was 75 % the same team that made Skyrim, so they couldn't make a new Elder Scrolls fast enough to release any time soon. I'm betting they are in the middle of production on it, Skyrim's production was the same and was begun in the middle of Fallout 3's production but the whole team wasn't moved over until the final DLCs for SKyrim came out. If that trend holds out they might next year do another stopgap game like New Vegas was, then do TESVI. Or they may have skipped on that because OBsidain is the only ones who can do it and they don't want those guys to make a much better game than them again. In which case this Remastered and very possibly a VR Skyrim shortly after VR Fallout 4 will be their thing to wait us over until ES 6 in maybe 2 years or so.
Kernel39 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 It's just a major graphical facelift to bring it up to par with today's latest AAA-games. I hope it doesn't break any of the mods. From what I understand, it still uses Skyrim's creation engine and isn't a port of Fallout 4's version of the creation engine.
Guest Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I just hope that they dont force us to upgrade and people dont steal the mods and upload it to consoles. nahhhh... http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14802/? ... were safe
NismoMan Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 it looks like its going to be a "new" game https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/742200753520050176 so all our existing installs and saves and mods are safe. but unless fore and skse come out of retirement, it will never get the same level of modding as current skyrim. seriously cant they just go make the next elder not online scrolls already? they are just milking existing success for the new consoles. kinda like for fo4 they are going to require you have a pc licence via steam to upload xbox mods, meaning you have to buy the game twice if you want to mod xbox after that point. To be fair this was probably fairly easy for them to do. Fallout 4 started developement with them porting Skyrim to x64 according to Todd Howard in an interview, where he said that no they were not releasing that, but soon after there actually came a whole lot of demands towards Bethesda to release that. You also have to realize they don't give a flying turd about the PC community regarding this, this is 100 % for the newer console generation to cash in on that easily, which is why they are giving this to us without charging and in a reasonable way... because otherwise we wouldn't care for it at all. If they updated Skyrim to use Fallout 4's animation system, then that would actually be great, yes all animation mods except replacers would have to be remade but we wouldn't need FNIS any more. Totally true about SKSE though, and probably the likes of SkyUI as well, and ENBs. I'm just not seeing this catching on a lot except for those actually wanting to provide console users mods... of which there may not be very many. Overall this whole thing is just a stopgap, the team that made Fallout 4 was 75 % the same team that made Skyrim, so they couldn't make a new Elder Scrolls fast enough to release any time soon. I'm betting they are in the middle of production on it, Skyrim's production was the same and was begun in the middle of Fallout 3's production but the whole team wasn't moved over until the final DLCs for SKyrim came out. If that trend holds out they might next year do another stopgap game like New Vegas was, then do TESVI. Or they may have skipped on that because OBsidain is the only ones who can do it and they don't want those guys to make a much better game than them again. In which case this Remastered and very possibly a VR Skyrim shortly after VR Fallout 4 will be their thing to wait us over until ES 6 in maybe 2 years or so. TBH, the stability of a 64bit architecture is tempting, no overloads, ctds, I have a gtx 980ti and I still CTD. But you're right, the move was a dirty cash-grab, plus, I honestly doubt they ported the game to the FO4 engine, that would mean rescripting the whole game, something Bethesda would never do and would rather invest their resources elsewhere. I'll say this... if it has no HDT, I'm not interested lol
Kernel39 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 What about the face meshes on the vanilla character and NPC's? The original ones were very blocky and just looked awful. For example, here's my character "Heathyr" from Skyrim (left) and the same character in Fallout 4. Note the difference in polygon count and overall quality.
MorePrinniesDood Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Is it too much to hope that they've taken all the Papyrus functions SKSE added and made them native? If they announced that and Linux port I'd get hype. Otherwise, not sure if want.
NismoMan Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 What about the face meshes on the vanilla character and NPC's? The original ones were very blocky and just looked awful. That's the thing, if they redid any of the meshes they would have boasted about that but they didn't. What they said SkySE has is this: - game and DLCs - remastered art (textures?) and effects - volumetric god rays, dof, screen-space reflections *and more* (simply put, DX11 features) - Mods (the cash-grab console bait) - New Launcher (for mod browsing and D/L) That was about it.
NismoMan Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Here's an image from Skyrim SE, my game looks at least 10 times better and I'm sure yours too. https://bethesda.net/data/images/event/145/Skyrim_2_Full.jpg
Sacremas Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Here's an image from Skyrim SE, my game looks at least 10 times better and I'm sure yours too. https://bethesda.net/data/images/event/145/Skyrim_2_Full.jpg Pretty much, that's Skyrim with a very basic ENB. However with x64 and DX11 that means Skyrim will be able to take advantge of more memory, and be able to work better on Win 10 for those of us who were silly enough to update. But that won't matter at all unless SKSE and some version of SkyUI/the MCM gets implemented, if that doesn't happen forget it. This will rely entirely on the modders willingess if it can be a thing or not.
heroko Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 im just wondering why would the x64 change annything for the mods exept the grapics probly an stupid question but i have no idea what the difrence is
Princessity Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Why do people assume it's going to break mods? I doubt the esp/esm structure, Papyrus, havok behaviours, nif structure and other things utilised by mods will change. They would shoot themselves in the foot with a nuclear missile if they did that. The amount of work Bethesda would have to put into just retrofitting the vanilla assets, not to even mention DLC, would be astronomical if they suddenly decided to break backward compatibility, so I'm pretty confident that most mods have nothing to worry about. If anything, the things that would break would probably be limited to external tools that inject stuff into the skyrim process such as SKSE and ENB. But I'm sure if that happens they will be updated in a matter of days. It will probably be worth it regardless of any initial inconvenience. The 64 bit upgrade means potential for better memory management which I've been dreaming of since 2011 and never believed it would actually happen. This will be better for the game in the long term. And even if it breaks stuff... Hello? Team? Have you met the Elder Scrolls modding community? How many times have we adapted to Bethesda arbitrarily breaking our stuff by now? Does anyone remember that "performance" patch back in 2012ish that completely broke the persistence of non-aliased scripts on actors not attached to player's current cell? I do. It forced me to rewrite like 30% of Vampiric Thirst. If Skyrim modding managed to survive that disaster, I'm pretty sure we can take whatever Bethesda's next slip-up happens to be. Pshhh... git off my lawn. You think you know backwards incompatibility? You merely adopted dependency updates wreaking havok on your mods, I was born in it, moulded by it, I didn't see a stable Skyrim build until I was already a woman. In fact, I haven't seen one to this day. At this point anything they do will be an improvement and I'm excited for it.
D_ManXX2 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Well just use the remastered for vanilla game play and older skyrim for modding.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I'll take it for free. But it looks nothing different from the previous Skyrim. Some added features? Big deal. Stability would be the only plus about this, but judging by their repetitive ongoing use of their sugarcoated jolly dolly engine, what ever... It still going to be clunky. It's not going to par with the current Skyrim in mod development. People have already played Skyrim for many years and moved on. But then again, after their failure with fallout 4, I wouldn't be surprised if Fallout 4 gets dropped and no longer mod supported by many. Kinda like Fallout 3 and New Vegas. New Vegas came out two years later after Fallout 3 and most of the modders shifted over to that game and ditched Fallout 3. Even the FOSE ditched the game because of the problematic engine, which sucks because it doesn't mount up to what complex mods can be made for New Vegas, but what ever... It's not like I give a shit since I didn't get suckered into Fallout 4. Which by the way, deserved to be dropped into the ocean. As I said in the other thread. The good thing is that since this game is going to be for console modding too, it gives modders a head start to DRM mods so console peasants are going to be shafted from the get go, which is awesome.
nllsq Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 If that new thing is stable and doesn't crash every 10 minutes with all the mods I run, then yeah! Because modded Skyrim is something I can play again, and again, and again . . . . end lose myself in the game every once in a while.
tazdotnet Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Bethesda......Ummm, how bout you take the man hours used for this remaster, and somehow go back in time and re-quire all the man hours used on the TES online, and just work on TESVI. You make a bazillion dollars, everyone gets a much awaited game, its a win-win. The longer it takes, the more people fall off the band wagon. I think if it wasn't for Skyrim modding, I would have moved on from TES long ago. Most definitely after the TES-online disappointment. You know what we all want, and we are just waiting to throw lots of our money at you, and you keep dinking around with these useless projects instead. After reading darkconsole's reply, even if it is free, I am not touching the remaster. dev of fallout 4 started with porting skyrim to the new engine before modifying it to fit the vision for fallout 4 - so the work (work they had to do) was already done there was lots of interest in it so they might as well release it it's on the new version of the engine so it's should have upgraded: the physics (including hair and clothing), the lighting, the shadows, animations, the mod limit, the handling of threads, the ability to take advantage of multiple GPUs, use more than 4GB ram natively, use more than 4 cores, DX11, get rid of the 32BIT memory limits and array size limits and any other limits that 32BIT processes impose - this is not a complete list but i'm tired so... - I'm sure just the upgrade to 64BIT will break the shit out of mods because papyrus has to change too if anything the skyrim animations ported to the 64bit engine may help with understanding how fallout 4 animations work - being able to compare the new and old versions of the same animations
darkconsole Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 and why the shit haven't you bought all the DLC yet as a modder? ... i have all the things.
darkconsole Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Why do people assume it's going to break mods? modding skyrim successfully is literally knowing all the bugs. if they fix 1 bug, usleep collapses, and so does everything else like dominos. they change one reference that can no longer be bound because its id changed as they redid it, then that quest alias wont fill and the mod will break. there are literally a zillion reasons of why mods will not just magically run on this new skyrim, even if they don't screw with the papyrus engine. people dont appreciate how fragile it is. if a mod built with usleep fixes in mind, and bethesda fixes those bugs but they fix them differently can be more than enough to explode a mod. the good news is its a "new game" so all my doomsday prep is for nothing. our old game and old mods and old installs will be safe. just don't expect to take old skyrim mods and drop them on new skyrim and expect them to magically be ay-ok. im sure a good deal of monkey patching is going to be required. even if they change nothing, fact: skse won't work on it until they rebuild it. and if anything changes with the scripting, it may be more work than anyone left in that project cares to do. just the fact its been ported to 64bit may be more work than anyone cares to do. being 64bit means they probably feel like changing some data formats to take advantage of the new sizes, which means new decoding required for skse. basically anything that matters uses skse really. even chesko apparently finally made the plunge with wearable lanterns 4. 1. don't worry about new skyrim losing your old skyrim shit. 2. don't expect old skyrim shit to work on new skyrim magically just because its the same damn name.
NickNozownik Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I'll just wait for someone to buy it, then I'll read what other players have to say about it. If it won't be compatible with mods (including SKSE dependent ones) then I see no reason to get it, even if it's free for people who have all the DLCs. It will look slightly better, it will be more stable but Skyrim without mods is bad imo. It's really, really bad. It would be stupid for them to break compatibility with existing mods, but Bethesda is Bethesda.
RUD3DUD3 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 you people are forgetting most important thing Creation kit. what about it ?? will special edition have its own CK or will bethesda update current CK for special edition if that happens then having separate games wont help us and we will be forced to upgrade to special editions if we want to play with mods. pray that it doesn't happen.
darkconsole Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 you people are forgetting most important thing Creation kit. what about it ?? will special edition have its own CK or will bethesda update current CK for special edition if that happens then having separate games wont help us and we will be forced to upgrade to special editions if we want to play with mods. pray that it doesn't happen. im sure old ck will stay the same, and new ck will be installed via the beth.net launcher just like the fallout 4 ck. ck still installs to the game directory, so none of that is a true worry.
RUD3DUD3 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 you people are forgetting most important thing Creation kit. what about it ?? will special edition have its own CK or will bethesda update current CK for special edition if that happens then having separate games wont help us and we will be forced to upgrade to special editions if we want to play with mods. pray that it doesn't happen. im sure old ck will stay the same, and new ck will be installed via the beth.net launcher just like the fallout 4 ck. ck still installs to the game directory, so none of that is a true worry. that would be a big relief that way we can avoid mod theft by not upgrading to special edition.
tazdotnet Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 you people are forgetting most important thing Creation kit. what about it ?? will special edition have its own CK or will bethesda update current CK for special edition if that happens then having separate games wont help us and we will be forced to upgrade to special editions if we want to play with mods. pray that it doesn't happen. im sure old ck will stay the same, and new ck will be installed via the beth.net launcher just like the fallout 4 ck. ck still installs to the game directory, so none of that is a true worry. that would be a big relief that way we can avoid mod theft by not upgrading to special edition. the mod theft stuff should be sorted out by then anyway
Guest Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 do not get excited about this. if they change anything in the papyrus engine, all mods will break. dont forget, skse and f4se team is kinda MIA, and without skse i estimate ~70% of the mods that are possible now wont be after they free upgrade you. i mean shit, fallout 4 has functions AddMod and RemoveMod but no HasMod. we were relying on the f4se team to add that. skse, fnis, iirc fore is retired. this is literally the worst thing possible for our community since they failed at paid modding. LOL... I was very thrilled when red the article about Special edition, but after your "makes sense" post, my excitement is gone... Good arguments you brought up.
Princessity Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Why do people assume it's going to break mods? modding skyrim successfully is literally knowing all the bugs. if they fix 1 bug, usleep collapses, and so does everything else like dominos. they change one reference that can no longer be bound because its id changed as they redid it, then that quest alias wont fill and the mod will break. there are literally a zillion reasons of why mods will not just magically run on this new skyrim, even if they don't screw with the papyrus engine. people dont appreciate how fragile it is. if a mod built with usleep fixes in mind, and bethesda fixes those bugs but they fix them differently can be more than enough to explode a mod. the good news is its a "new game" so all my doomsday prep is for nothing. our old game and old mods and old installs will be safe. just don't expect to take old skyrim mods and drop them on new skyrim and expect them to magically be ay-ok. im sure a good deal of monkey patching is going to be required. even if they change nothing, fact: skse won't work on it until they rebuild it. and if anything changes with the scripting, it may be more work than anyone left in that project cares to do. just the fact its been ported to 64bit may be more work than anyone cares to do. being 64bit means they probably feel like changing some data formats to take advantage of the new sizes, which means new decoding required for skse. basically anything that matters uses skse really. even chesko apparently finally made the plunge with wearable lanterns 4. 1. don't worry about new skyrim losing your old skyrim shit. 2. don't expect old skyrim shit to work on new skyrim magically just because its the same damn name. I know all that, I've been working around Skyrim's little quirks for 4.5 years now. I've changed my mods multiple times every time an official patch introduced or fixed bugs I was depending on. And I'm prepared to do ti again, as should be any modder. All of that is expected and while I'm not saying that mods will be immediately transferable without any adaptation, people who assume that everything will have to be remade from scratch are 50 different shades of wrong and clueless about what they're talking about. It doesn't take the script extender team long to figure out brand new games so I'm not worried about SKSE being out of commission for long. As far as I can surmise they and ENB will have it the worst since they directly interact with Skyrim's executable. I'm not worried about FNIS since it's unlikely the remaster is going to mess with the existing havok behaviour system. They're not going to get rid of it and replace it with FO4's because... that would be useless to them. They're not making any new in-game content that would warrant it. Same goes for nif structure, skeletons and other external asset types associated with Skyrim. This is a remaster, not a remake, they are not going to make an Oblivion -> Skyrim or Morrowind -> Oblivion kind of architectural leap because that would be a little overkill for the purpose of adding modern system support. In the worst (reasonable) case scenario SKSE, and possibly but highly unlikely FNIS and HDT mods will be broken for a few weeks, but modders will gradually regain their footing. Oh and even not knowing anything about the remaster whatsoever I'm 200% sure they are not going to change anything about the modder-end of Papyrus. They may improve and/or break its internal workings in the course of upgrading to 64bit but they'd have to really love working double shifts to retroactively change the existing libraries. I feel like a lot of people's fears are based on the unfounded assumption that Bethesda is for some reason going to go the extra mile and remake Skyrim on FO4's engine... which would be an utter waste of time and money for them. This is not how cross-generation ports or remasters of games work.
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