Naked Dungeons

[donttouchmethere]

9 minutes ago, Duncan Idaho said:

I am using Defeat

Try the "clean defeat" option in SLdefeat MCM

I had this issue a lot with SLdefeat and Deviously Helpless.

Atm I try the NDUN/DH combo, and looks good do far.

This LO is important if you want to combine all 3 (or more).

Having a NDUNdefeat at the same time as an SLdefeat just call for trouble, unless you trigger both defeat option only manually.

 

Also check NDUN debug page in what stage the NDUNhelpless quest is or if your armor gets recognized.

Or deactivate the ndunhelpless feature, because you have already deviously helpless installed.

[Kristus Kringle]

@donttouchmethere  I wasn't using the ndun defeat option and I tried clean defeat and every other mod. I will try your other suggestion.

[donttouchmethere]

2 hours ago, Duncan Idaho said:

@donttouchmethere  I wasn't using the ndun defeat option and I tried clean defeat and every other mod. I will try your other suggestion.

AHH, I forgot there are more reasons:

> If impregnated via ES+ => I think your friendly to all spiders for a while, I fear this also includes draugr, because they share a faction

> NDUNdisguise => if you sneak and change outfit you can disguise as the hostiles that wear those armors you changed into and they get friendly, this is also true if you just change an amulet, because inventory gets updated. The faction your disguised as show as message on screen.

> if NDUNdefat triggers on death wouldn't you also trigger SLdefeat and/or death alternative?

Clusterfuck ftw!

> if DH makes you frindly to draugr you might also be friendly to spiders

 

more possible issues:

> a wrong faction sticks on your PC, this can happen via SLdefeat or DH or Death Alternative. 

My workaround was to remove factions via DDe or SUM now.

Because modders don't like to give their factions proper names it comes down to guesswork.

 

> you didn't use the bandit LAL start didn't you?^^

 

I try also sexlab stop combat again, lets see if that can cause it too

 

check your DH settings

if two trigger settings are true you will have it constantly triggered

[Nymra]

6 hours ago, Duncan Idaho said:

 

Did you try to disable all NDUN features? Just all of it? Maybe you can track down the feature of NDUN that is causing the problem. 

I never had an issue like that, but sometimes the NDUN quests can take some time to complete (they will say "Enemies can attack you any time now" in the upper left).

Until that happens all enemies seem to remain friendly.
So maybe something just prevents the NDUN quests from completion.

 

You can try to complete them via console, the commands are somewhere in this thread (something with setstage NDUN_rapequest 1000 or sth).

 

[donttouchmethere]

On 9/16/2019 at 7:51 AM, Duncan Idaho said:

wasn't using the ndun defeat option and I tried clean defeat and every other mod. I will try your other suggestion.

Try if a SLdefeat or DH calm faction is stuck on you.

something like

"In the end, was "NT_AggFaction", and I think it's related to Defeat."

 

SLdefeat does a lot of stuff like that, so maybe it's a lead

 

Contrary to Nymra I doubt it is an NDUN issue, because I never saw it on my setups.

That doesn't mean that the combination of SLdefeat and NDUN can cause issues like that.

[Heppai]

Pretty big fan of this mod, I see that there hasnt been any activity here but I hope you continue to work on this mod and add customization for LE. To add some input It would be great if armortization wasnt reliant on immortality/ death alternative mods. This makes me turn off defeat and not enjoy your mod as much as I want to. 

 

Once again great work here, I'd love to see more.

[Nymra]

7 hours ago, Heppai said:

Pretty big fan of this mod, I see that there hasnt been any activity here but I hope you continue to work on this mod and add customization for LE. To add some input It would be great if armortization wasnt reliant on immortality/ death alternative mods. This makes me turn off defeat and not enjoy your mod as much as I want to. 

 

Once again great work here, I'd love to see more.

you are not the only one having that problem.

For some it is the connection between the Helpless feature and civilian rape chance that is causing problems.

 

Maybe you can check out this mod. it is more complex but does the same and more.

 

 

 

 

[Heppai]

Thanks Ill check it out!

[galahad_69]

There will be at least one more update to this mod, mainly bugfixes and a few small new features. I'm currently working on it.

[galahad_69]

There will be at least one more update to this mod, mainly bugfixes and a few small new features. I'm currently working on it.

[galahad_69]

There will be at least one more update to this mod, mainly bugfixes and a few small new features. I'm currently working on it.

[Nymra]

3 hours ago, galahad_69 said:

There will be at least one more update to this mod, mainly bugfixes and a few small new features. I'm currently working on it.

Wow, very nice! 

Can you provide us with some details? Some of us were using this mod very intensivly and I tried to promote it as better alternative to Defeat.

The main points, while understandably complicated, are still creature group animations and enemy detection.

 

I tried to investigate if I could prevent NDUN form using Hares and other wild animals from joining in chain rape animations. A problem that is mainly happening outdoors (indoors usually enemies are less diverse).

 

I have a list of issues that I tried to keep track or circumvent somehow (with some fixes made by another user). 

This is just the complete list, I know we were talking before about that and I am really looking forward to updates! 

 

Functionality and Bugs: 

- No Creature Group animations

- wrong NPC types are drawn to chain rape animations 

- wiggle free feature of local captivity is not working (movement key pressing can break the PC free of the furniture). Also only 1 key should bring up the pop up window

- females only use fisting animations 

- outdoor captivity is often strange because the furniture is hovering above ground level. 

- DD devices equiped during rape seem not always to follow the set rules

 

Compatibility with other mods. 

- would be nice if "Harmless" feature of the mod would work even when Civilian Rape chance is at 0% 

- destruction of armor should work without immortality feature on

- NDUN calm spell should only be lifted when the NPC leaves the ZAP furniture, not when he wiggles free

- Make Simple Slavery event possible to trigger SEPERATLY from Robbery (I hate robbery events because they ruin my equipment. I dont want the game to remove any of it ever). 

But I also want NDUN to send my PC to Simple Slavery (there are alot of mods that allow that without robbery, like DEC) 

 

My personal use of the mod and possible improvements:

 

Currently I use the ZAP Furniture captivity to spice up my game. Following donttouchmetheres ideas I am currnetly using Deviously Enslaved Continued (DEC) and Deviusly Helpless (DH) to make the zap furniture quest more interesting. 

 

NDUN Defeat -> NDUN rape -> NDUN local captivity -> enemies calmed by NDUN -> DEC or DH approach by nearby NPC who "free" the player from the furniture.

Sadly, this part requires roleplaying at the moment.

 

Because when a mod breaks the PC free of the ZAP furniture while the NDUN quest is still running, everything breaks.

So I need to free myself from the furniture and still remain inside willingly (roleplay) to allow other mods to savely trigger.

 

I was thinking alot about how the furniture game could be more interesting.

 

1. Breaking free should be ALOT harder (ideally customizeable in MCM)

Ideally it should be, that wiggling only has a certain % chance to suceed and that you can customize that chance via MCM 1-100%.

So if you set it to 50%, every wiggle attempt has a 50% chance of success. Wiggle costs stamina, so it should be ok if there is no timeout in between.

But it would also be nice if there would be an option for a "wiggle free" timeout in the MCM (0 hours to X hours cooldown for wiggle attempts).

 

2. Nearby NPC should be able to "use" the PC when he is in the furniture and also relock the PC into the furniture after rape

As long as the PC is in the furniture, nearby calmed NPC should periodically approach the PC to either whip him or rape him.

Rape should remove the PC from the furniture and then relock him afterwards. 

So the PC will get raped even more, the longer it takes for him to wiggle free (while mods like APropos 2 that damage stamina will make escape even harder)

 

This would make NDUN immortality feature nearly perfect and I could remove DEC from my Load order again. 

 

3. Perfect world: 

NDUN hard bondage option:
Would be nice if this would be compatible with Furniture. Its always odd when the PC gets locked in furniture with a yoke or armbinder on.

So it would be cool if the PC would not be locked in furniture (even when the captivity feature is at 100%) when a hard Device is put on him.

 

Glad to see you back, galahad
And sorry for the wall of text. I hope you just see how much I love this mod. It virtually makes me still play kinky skyrim, because all other defeat/combat rape mods just fail hard

 

[donttouchmethere]

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Glad to see you back, galahad
And sorry for the wall of text. I hope you just see how much I love this mod. It virtually makes me still play kinky skyrim, because all other defeat/combat rape mods just fail hard

As he said ☝️??

 

By now I can't play without NDUN anymore ??

[Skewered]

On 11/1/2019 at 6:27 AM, galahad_69 said:

There will be at least one more update to this mod, mainly bugfixes and a few small new features. I'm currently working on it.

Awesome mod!  Can't wait to see the update!

[Hex Bolt]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:09 PM, Nymra said:

1. Breaking free should be ALOT harder (ideally customizeable in MCM)

Ideally it should be, that wiggling only has a certain % chance to suceed and that you can customize that chance via MCM 1-100%.

So if you set it to 50%, every wiggle attempt has a 50% chance of success. Wiggle costs stamina, so it should be ok if there is no timeout in between.

But it would also be nice if there would be an option for a "wiggle free" timeout in the MCM (0 hours to X hours cooldown for wiggle attempts).

 

2. Nearby NPC should be able to "use" the PC when he is in the furniture and also relock the PC into the furniture after rape

As long as the PC is in the furniture, nearby calmed NPC should periodically approach the PC to either whip him or rape him.

Rape should remove the PC from the furniture and then relock him afterwards. 

So the PC will get raped even more, the longer it takes for him to wiggle free (while mods like APropos 2 that damage stamina will make escape even harder)

Escape option settings might also include a configurable min & max number of guaranteed failures to ensure that you don't get lucky on the first try or two (or set them both to 0 to disable that feature).   There could also be a configurable chance to be raped or whipped for each failed struggle attempt, in addition to the chance to be periodically abused.  Depending on the settings, captivity could be a pretty rough experience.

[jacecar]

Combining this mod with PAHE Home Sweet Home (slave mod) can cause problems when you don't set "live" NPC's to 0% -- because if you have slaves that follow you into places, they lose all of their stuff with no way of getting any of it back.  They're not treated as followers, so setting follower % to 0 does nothing for them.

 

Also, the rape settings can interfere with Sexlab Adventures -- which has it's own rape and proximity rape functions.  If you're not careful with settings, you can end up in a continuous rape/re-rape scenario with multiple DD's attached and no way to escape out of them.  This is further compounded when used with Skooma Whore settings that force you to imbibe potions when raped...  after a while, you're so drugged up, bound up in devices, and completely blind that you have no recourse but to reload a previous save.

 

At this point, I'm keeping the mod active because I love it...  but wish there were some way to tone things down (combination of mods) without making it too easy or predictable.

 

I also don't get the "hair regrowth" thing.  I have it set to 8 hours to regrow, and I can sleep for days, travel back and forth across the map, and it barely starts to regrow hair...  meanwhile (again according to settings), I could end up in a situation where my head gets shaved 4 or more times while waiting for it to regrow even an inch...

[donttouchmethere]

3 hours ago, jacecar said:

Combining this mod with PAHE Home Sweet Home (slave mod) can cause problems when you don't set "live" NPC's to 0% -- because if you have slaves that follow you into places, they lose all of their stuff with no way of getting any of it back.  They're not treated as followers, so setting follower % to 0 does nothing for them.

That's a good point!

 

3 hours ago, jacecar said:

Also, the rape settings can interfere with Sexlab Adventures -- which has it's own rape and proximity rape functions.  If you're not careful with settings, you can end up in a continuous rape/re-rape scenario with multiple DD's attached and no way to escape out of them.

SLadventures doesn't add DDs after rape.

NDUN only adds DDs after rape if you got defeated during combat or if you make a bad choice during dialog.

If you get DDs added after every rape trigger my guess is you have also DEC installed and set it to catch every rape event.

 

If you want to escape DDs if it's too much for you:

> give Devious Lore a chance, it provides means to struggle out of devices and you can give followers keys to unlock you to circumvent the DDi key break chance (you will have to leave a follower or a slave with high standing outside the dungeon to prevent the NDUN trap to take your keys, IIRC NDUN grabs all keys even if it is set in MCM other wise), also makes blacksmiths and fences to help you out of bondage

> Devious Followers can help you out of heavy bondage

> NDUN will help you out of all bondage (not devices with the new heavy bondage tag) if you go to an court mage (whiterun) or ask the greybeards for help

 

If NDUN adds too much DDs for your liking you can reduce the chance and amount of DDs that get added after defeat.

Having to struggle to get out of DDs is actually the whole point or it would be too easy.

 

Although your right that NDUN civil rape needs an timeout, even with 1% it will trigger constantly.

 

3 hours ago, jacecar said:

This is further compounded when used with Skooma Whore settings that force you to imbibe potions when raped...  after a while, you're so drugged up, bound up in devices, and completely blind that you have no recourse but to reload a previous save.

You can reduce the chance to get skooma after rape in the MCM settings. Choose a low number below 10% or below 5 %

This is especially true if you get defeated a lot or raped a lot.

 

3 hours ago, jacecar said:

meanwhile (again according to settings), I could end up in a situation where my head gets shaved 4 or more times while waiting for it to regrow even an inch...

You really need to tweak your MCM settings lol

Yes the hairs have a few stages until they grow back.

You can reduce the chances to loose your hair via NDUN defeat settings, again choose a low % amount.

 

Deactivate the "shave hair before punishment" by guards for a while.

[jacecar]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:48 AM, donttouchmethere said:

That's a good point!

 

SLadventures doesn't add DDs after rape.

NDUN only adds DDs after rape if you got defeated during combat or if you make a bad choice during dialog.

If you get DDs added after every rape trigger my guess is you have also DEC installed and set it to catch every rape event.

 

If you want to escape DDs if it's too much for you:

> give Devious Lore a chance, it provides means to struggle out of devices and you can give followers keys to unlock you to circumvent the DDi key break chance (you will have to leave a follower or a slave with high standing outside the dungeon to prevent the NDUN trap to take your keys, IIRC NDUN grabs all keys even if it is set in MCM other wise), also makes blacksmiths and fences to help you out of bondage

> Devious Followers can help you out of heavy bondage

> NDUN will help you out of all bondage (not devices with the new heavy bondage tag) if you go to an court mage (whiterun) or ask the greybeards for help

 

If NDUN adds too much DDs for your liking you can reduce the chance and amount of DDs that get added after defeat.

Having to struggle to get out of DDs is actually the whole point or it would be too easy.

 

Although your right that NDUN civil rape needs an timeout, even with 1% it will trigger constantly.

 

You can reduce the chance to get skooma after rape in the MCM settings. Choose a low number below 10% or below 5 %

This is especially true if you get defeated a lot or raped a lot.

 

You really need to tweak your MCM settings lol

Yes the hairs have a few stages until they grow back.

You can reduce the chances to loose your hair via NDUN defeat settings, again choose a low % amount.

 

Deactivate the "shave hair before punishment" by guards for a while.

I've tweaked settings and gotten things to work mostly ok between all the above mods.

 

The thing that keeps bothering me the most, however, is the "Hey, you have a nice garment" dialogue that somehow immediately locks your character in place regardless of your response (or attempt to tab out).  You can be surrounded by NPC's, talking to one (a slave, a companion, or someone else) and you get interrupted by this -- character locked in place, and you have no recourse but to accept the conversation, follow through with the willing/unwilling sex scene before your char gets released from its locked state.

 

It's so odd that I can be instructing a companion, ordering around a slave and still get interrupted and locked in place.  The ONLY dialogue option I have available to me is with the person I'm actually attempting to talk to, but this mod and it's "nice garment" takes over and controls everything until it's done.  In other words, I can only talk to the last person I was conversing with (my slave, companion, or other NPC) but yet the *answers* to the dialogue directly affect this mod and the interruption/override sequence.  It's very confusing.

 

In addition, I can be in the middle of a willing/unwilling sex scene -- players stripped, animations engaging -- and yet another character can interrupt and say "Hey, you have a nice garment" (which, by the way makes ZERO sense in English).

[jacecar]

One more thing (while I'm adding things):  If you set the "Harmless" option on while naked and approach a hostile NPC with spells equipped, they don't do anything.  They just stand there and let you kill them.

 

BTW, I do some colorful combination stuff with mods...  not trying to break them, but rather to try to figure out what the limits are within what I like to do.  I guess all my years as a Q/A tester and developer keep coming back to haunt me because I cause more problems for myself than I truly necessary.

 

I typically play with one or more PAHE (HSH) slaves, a Better Vampires convert (a character killed and turned into a follower) and a follower from the Immersive Wenches collection using AFT.  So...  I know I'm pushing the limits.

[donttouchmethere]

5 hours ago, jacecar said:

ou can be surrounded by NPC's, talking to one (a slave, a companion, or someone else) and you get interrupted by this -- character locked in place, and you have no recourse but to accept the conversation, follow through with the willing/unwilling sex scene before your char gets released from its locked state.

I have the same on some setup, but not always, I mean the "locked in place".

Trying to find out what it causes.

What NDUN exception rules are you using?

(like collar = no to guard punishment, yes to civil rape)

 

Do you get any force greets without the NDUN civil rape dialog?

Means NPC does a force greet, but you only the the regular NPC dialog not the NDUN one.

 

5 hours ago, jacecar said:

BTW, I do some colorful combination stuff with mods...  not trying to break them, but rather to try to figure out what the limits are within what I like to do.  I guess all my years as a Q/A tester and developer keep coming back to haunt me because I cause more problems for myself than I truly necessary.

I'm not an Q/A tester, but I just can't stop to do the same to my Skyrim as you do ?

[Varithina]

4 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

I'm not an Q/A tester, but I just can't stop to do the same to my Skyrim as you do ?

Is not breaking, hmm let me rephrase that, testing for quality part of the fun?

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Varithina said:

Is not breaking, hmm let me rephrase that, testing for quality part of the fun?

I'm stuck in that stupid idea to try as many mod combos and mods as possible to be able some day to build my ultimate Setup.

Others created in that time complex mods, little mods, patches, Outfits and weapons, immersive stuff or already found what they are searching for ?

 

Okey okey, I think I like the Sisyphus work until mod combos finally start to tell stories on their own and surpass what every single component was made for.

(as if they have a life on their own and create surprising situations)

Also creates a lot of clusterfuck ?

(and makes testing very slow >.<)

[jacecar]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:05 AM, donttouchmethere said:

I have the same on some setup, but not always, I mean the "locked in place".

Trying to find out what it causes.

What NDUN exception rules are you using?

(like collar = no to guard punishment, yes to civil rape)

 

Do you get any force greets without the NDUN civil rape dialog?

Means NPC does a force greet, but you only the the regular NPC dialog not the NDUN one.

 

I'm not an Q/A tester, but I just can't stop to do the same to my Skyrim as you do ?

Checking exception rules.  I don't do anything with collars because something in my setup puts a collar on any and all NPC's -- sometimes while I'm watching from a few feet away (before I even greet them) I see them equip a collar, and they always have one on them when I loot.  I've seen this behavior before and heard others complain about it, but never found a solution.  I have a boatload of mods loaded up now, so figuring out which one does it would take forever.  If I get around to a new fresh install, I'll try to add one mod at a time until I determine the cause.

 

I do (rarely) get force greets without the NDUN civil rape dialog -- but typically only from guards when I have a high bounty.  Typical lower bounties will give the "Hey, I know you" response, but doesn't force greet.  Immersive Wenches adds a force greet, but only if you sit down in a tavern and the bartender yells at one of them to go attend me.  Other than that, they leave me alone.

 

When Sexlab Adventures proximity rape fires, it doesn't force greet.  You just get a message that "So and so is going to use you." and then the scene starts.  I have the settings toned down on that so that it *does* fire occasionally, but not every instance -- plus, it has a 1 hour (default) cooldown between occurrences.

 

I haven't played with Immortality, as I use both Death Alternative and Defeat.

 

NDUN options set:

 

CIvilian rape chance: 20%
Attacker gender: ANY
Post rape robbery: 25%
Guard punishment: NO (I run around naked...  with this enabled and no way to avoid it, it becomes impossible to accomplish anything around guards)
Shave Head: NO

Bound Hands: Guard Punishment
Collars: Never
Harmlessness: OFF (again, a naked mage can get away with murder with this setting on)
Prostitution: ON

 

I love the guard reaction, don't get me wrong, but there needs to be a threshold, not just a "is player naked?" question.  Otherwise, what typically happens is that I get raped or "pay off my fine in nicer ways" causing me to lose my clothes, then the guard that rapes me says "you're naked and that's illegal" or whatever and proceeds with the guard punishment routine.  SLEN's prostitution dancing for coin...  would also trigger this far too often.

 

So, if I had a request, it would be that guard punishment also operate on a percentage if they see the character naked -- just like civilian rape chance, and that there be a (user defined) timeout enforced between occurrences for all NDUN scenes (gang and serial not counted until their sequence was finished).
 

Back to your "force greet" question...  No, unless there is a reason for a force greet, I cannot think of another mod that causes it when I'm not expecting it or should be expecting it.  SLEN prostitution will force greet after you build up enough fame or have actively danced to attempt to charm clients...  but you can say no, and there is no character locking involved.  I suppose Skooma Whore also force greets if your addiction is high enough, but only for a single guard dialogue telling you to get out of the city or a bartender demanding payment to let you stay "just this once."

 

There are so many ways to break these mods by accident or just randomly that you should take none of this as a criticism of your work.  If I could code mods myself, I'd be out there doing it.  I've made enough modifications and fixes to mods I prolly should try to write my own someday.  Hats off to you (my compliments) regardless of how this turns out.

[jacecar]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:52 AM, donttouchmethere said:

Try if a SLdefeat or DH calm faction is stuck on you.

something like

"In the end, was "NT_AggFaction", and I think it's related to Defeat."

 

SLdefeat does a lot of stuff like that, so maybe it's a lead

 

Contrary to Nymra I doubt it is an NDUN issue, because I never saw it on my setups.

That doesn't mean that the combination of SLdefeat and NDUN can cause issues like that.

I've seen this happen, but not often enough that I can diagnose a cause/trigger.

 

I'll see if I can figure this out

[jacecar]

21 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

I'm stuck in that stupid idea to try as many mod combos and mods as possible to be able some day to build my ultimate Setup.

Others created in that time complex mods, little mods, patches, Outfits and weapons, immersive stuff or already found what they are searching for ?

 

You and me, both.  I've come close to that point several times, but then end up breaking the game because something ends up incompatible with something else.  So far (right now) I've got a relatively stable setup that doesn't break all that often and actually does what I want it to do -- let me play through the game's quest lines and adventures with some spicy content thrown in to keep me from being bored.

 

Last run through I got to level 48 with all the main quest lines finished before I added more mods and broke stuff.  This time, I'm playing with a (hopefully) fixed mod list and seeing where things fall apart.

 

There are some things guaranteed to break my game.  Hire one or more SLEN prostitutes and then take on or release a normal follower.  BOOM, your save is screwed.  You have to release the prostitutes from their employment before taking on or releasing a normal follower.  Not sure why...  but I'm guessing it has to do with follower or add-on follower mechanics and the variables used.  There are other things that seem to break it...  and I have to back out and reload a previous save to fix things, but I haven't figured out exactly why.  Still testing, still playing.