Slaverun Reloaded (03-June-2018)

[Shaddranat]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Alas, I'm definitely not adding or removing anything from my 100+ hours playthrough... It stays untouched until I finish!

 

It seems really odd to be given daedric armor pieces, be told to use them, and then "by design" not be able to, so I think it's more likely that it's a problem with the Slaverun script

that removes DD items for the arena not working in my setup for some reason. My answer is to console a key and remove the items with it myself.

 

If I ask Bellamy to remove some devices, he removes them successfully (apart from broken collars from double collar add attempts, which require manual deletion in the console). He even removes armbinders and corsets just fine.

 

Whether or not it is not working in other people's setups would be good to know though.

Also, whether anyone else sees this double collar adding, as I see it a lot (though by no means always).

And finally, whether it really is "by design"...

 

As DD item removal has changed a bit in DD4, and the new version of Slaverun seems to have a massively overhauled the arena, I can imagine when a new version of Slaverun finally comes out, this will be different anyway.

 

(To clarify, I am not running DD4 (or Zap 8), as it didn't come out until after I started this playthrough), I'm running the versions that have been out and stable for months.

Oh, yeah, well at 100+ hours I wouldn't recommend adding anything either.  Last thing you need if for some unpredictable gremlin to jump in the code and screw up your long game. (Definitely keep it in mind for the future though...hell, I've pretty much taken to having my character in JUST DD items. It's sessy, she still counts as nude for the Slaverun laws, her armor is decent and...well, why the hell not???)

 

Also, having just gotten to the Arena bit myself, I can confirm that it isn't just you who has had this issue.  The Arena Master took off my blindfold and armbinder, but my cuffs/gloves and cuffs/boots plus corset and posture collar I had on stayed behind, so I could only equip the Helmet and sword they gave me. I'm actually thinking that the blindfold and armbinder are all the arena master is programmed to remove. (I say this  because in my game, that was all they added to me...but of course, I was pretty deviced up before being taken there, so I can't say for sure.)

7 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

Quick question - if you edit the slave names applied in the json will that have any effect on dialogue in the mod?

 

Thank you if anyone knows the answer

The json file just changes the archive of names that the mod will pull from to apply to your character. This actually changes your character's name in the game, it's not just something that the mod uses. The dialogue in the game should just be programmed to use whatever your character's name happens to be, so it should effect the dialogue with the names you add (so long as you add them BEFORE the mods uses the changed appelation).

[Guest]

On 1/20/2016 at 8:08 PM, Kenjoka said:

As some users want bounty hunters, maybe I should do a squad of bounty hunter rabbits chasing you 

I think if you add bounty hunters, it would be cool if you replaced the current escaped slave consequence with bounty hunters/slavers. Right now when you fail to pay 1000g on time if you walk into a town it just says you get knocked out and you are punished. But if you are at least level 10 and don't get one shot by an arrow I think you should at least have the chance to talk to the bounty hunters or make a run for it into the wilderness where you can fight the bounty hunters easy without guards also helping them.

[Shaddranat]

Hehe, ok, I found a funny little bug just a few minutes ago.  I was doing the Slave Arena fights. When I asked the Arena Master who I was fighting, I was told it was a "creepy falmer" that had never been beaten and was apparently famous for decapitating his enemies and throat-fucking their severed head. I think "well, this should be interesting." So, I head up to the arena (even popped into my Succubus form, just in case this was going to be a real fight), draw my sword and get ready to battle.

 

And then my enemy arrives...and it was definitely a fox. Not an armored, super-combat kitsune or anything; just a normal damned fox!  Sure, it had the name and healthpool of this supposed skull-fucking Falmer, but it was still a fox, and it ran like a little bitch the entire fight.

 

This was also not a one-time event.  My next trip in I was told I was fighting the same enemy...and I did.  Ol' Foxy showed up a second time and died just as horribly as in the first. (High-five for unintended comic relief!)

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, RestrictedTom said:

I think if you add bounty hunters, it would be cool if you replaced the current escaped slave consequence with bounty hunters/slavers. Right now when you fail to pay 1000g on time if you walk into a town it just says you get knocked out and you are punished. But if you are at least level 10 and don't get one shot by an arrow I think you should at least have the chance to talk to the bounty hunters or make a run for it into the wilderness where you can fight the bounty hunters easy without guards also helping them.

It's a pity that Bounty Hunters aren't just a cut-paste-win from PO. I would imagine that Kenjoka would want to make this use named characters like Igor, and be special to Slaverun, and it's on the TO DO list somewhere...

 

 

One thing with the 1000 a week payoff:

please, please, please, put the time remaining in the Slaverun Status you get from the hotkey.

 

 

Right now, the only way I know to find out how much time remaining is to go in the MCM, scroll down dozens of mods, select Slaverun, wait, select General, wait, scroll down.

If there was any single piece of information I ever wanted to find out from Slaverun, it's not how many times I've been raped, or how many days a slave, it's that time remaining.

It's useful to know your Pike score and Bellamy score, but those rarely change once you've been playing a while, but the time remaining is something you have to check a lot.

 

More thoughts on payment mechanic:

Spoiler

I've never actually missed a payment, so it didn't occur to me that you would be instantly knocked out and punished. I thought if I was just a bit late, I would be allowed to pay as normal, and then punished, (presumably less than if I was over a week late).

 

It didn't occur to me that this was the only mechanic for "running away", but I guess it's the way that can be measured right now.

It sounds like you could spend a week without leaving Whiterun, forget to pay, and still get punished for "running away" as it stands. Which doesn't make much sense.

 

I would have done it so that you only get knocked out if you go into a free town. "The bounty hunters tracked you down." It could say, when you are knocked out.

And if you go into a slave town, you get a courier with a message from Bellamy: "Where's my money, bitch?"

He adds a thousand to your debt for every courier he sends.

 

But I guess this is not an important mechanic, as I've never even triggered it in my playthrough. It never occurred to me to see what happens if I don't pay, I just assumed it would be a lot of whipping and some sex, which pretty-much happens anyway.

 

 

[divinefire]

I put my payment timer at a very long time then just pay it per task or slaverun quest completion. Theres no enforcement, I just do it but would love a second option to pay this way or a way to adjust the amounts starting lower and rising as the slave company grows.

[Kenjoka]

4 hours ago, shaddranat said:

Hehe, ok, I found a funny little bug just a few minutes ago.  I was doing the Slave Arena fights. When I asked the Arena Master who I was fighting, I was told it was a "creepy falmer" that had never been beaten and was apparently famous for decapitating his enemies and throat-fucking their severed head. I think "well, this should be interesting." So, I head up to the arena (even popped into my Succubus form, just in case this was going to be a real fight), draw my sword and get ready to battle.

 

And then my enemy arrives...and it was definitely a fox. Not an armored, super-combat kitsune or anything; just a normal damned fox!  Sure, it had the name and healthpool of this supposed skull-fucking Falmer, but it was still a fox, and it ran like a little bitch the entire fight.

 

This was also not a one-time event.  My next trip in I was told I was fighting the same enemy...and I did.  Ol' Foxy showed up a second time and died just as horribly as in the first. (High-five for unintended comic relief!)

 

I haven't played or tested the fight club arena for a long time. I even thought about removing it when the new BIG Colosseum arena comes, but I decided to let it in as it is working content which you can play but not have to.

I will do some tests to see which bugs I can reproduce and fix...

[Shaddranat]

3 minutes ago, Kenjoka said:

I haven't played or tested the fight club arena for a long time. I even thought about removing it when the new BIG Colosseum arena comes, but I decided to let it in as it is working content which you can play but not have to.

I will do some tests to see which bugs I can reproduce and fix...

I haven't been back in a little while, but if I get it again, I'll see if I can get you a papyrus log or something (or at least a screenshot...it was quite funny) to help you track it down.

 

Side Note: Big Arena?!  Looking forward to seeing that once it's done.

[Kenjoka]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's a pity that Bounty Hunters aren't just a cut-paste-win from PO. I would imagine that Kenjoka would want to make this use named characters like Igor, and be special to Slaverun, and it's on the TO DO list somewhere...

 

 

One thing with the 1000 a week payoff:

please, please, please, put the time remaining in the Slaverun Status you get from the hotkey.

 

 

Right now, the only way I know to find out how much time remaining is to go in the MCM, scroll down dozens of mods, select Slaverun, wait, select General, wait, scroll down.

If there was any single piece of information I ever wanted to find out from Slaverun, it's not how many times I've been raped, or how many days a slave, it's that time remaining.

It's useful to know your Pike score and Bellamy score, but those rarely change once you've been playing a while, but the time remaining is something you have to check a lot.

 

More thoughts on payment mechanic:

  Reveal hidden contents

I've never actually missed a payment, so it didn't occur to me that you would be instantly knocked out and punished. I thought if I was just a bit late, I would be allowed to pay as normal, and then punished, (presumably less than if I was over a week late).

 

It didn't occur to me that this was the only mechanic for "running away", but I guess it's the way that can be measured right now.

It sounds like you could spend a week without leaving Whiterun, forget to pay, and still get punished for "running away" as it stands. Which doesn't make much sense.

 

I would have done it so that you only get knocked out if you go into a free town. "The bounty hunters tracked you down." It could say, when you are knocked out.

And if you go into a slave town, you get a courier with a message from Bellamy: "Where's my money, bitch?"

He adds a thousand to your debt for every courier he sends.

 

But I guess this is not an important mechanic, as I've never even triggered it in my playthrough. It never occurred to me to see what happens if I don't pay, I just assumed it would be a lot of whipping and some sex, which pretty-much happens anyway.

 

 

 

there have been a lot of comments about the report-in function and I was thinking about it. Btw that time-remaining-showed with the hotkey should be already implemented, at least in v3, I am not quite sure about V2

 

I created that playment of 1000 gold just to do anything when you report and because you learned in the basic slave training that your Master sends you for money (which is a relict of the original slaverun mod)

 

So here is what are my ideas and plans

I want to remove that pay 1000 gold overall. You are a special slave, running around in Skyrim and doing tasks for the Slave Master, so why he do want you to report periodically?

- first to make sure you haven't run away

- then to check if you are in good shape and don't got any bad ideas and still a good trained slave, submissive and filthy

- see if you have something valuable he may want and confiscate it (I would make that optional); simular where you goods are taken and stored in a chest, he would take your armor, weapon AND gold (maybe all > 100) and store it somewhere (you can get that later when slavery is abolished); I am sure if I can check the value of confiscated good, but I can check your money and if he gets only a few coins maybe the slavers will just punish you a little for being so lazy

 

The second thing is when you failed to report in time

- there are wishes to send a slaver patrol for you; so maybe I will doing that (configurable); the problem I see is that you do something completely different and suddenly a patrol pops up, maybe in a scene from another mod... maybe you just doing a Captured dreams job or are a slave in SD, or Prison Overhaul is just doing the same... so there is alot which can go completly wrong

- I will not let you walk with the patrol through half of Skyrim... I find this total boring, but what I can imagine is that they will bring you near Whiterun... then escort you to Bellamy and hand you over to him and as a punishment there you will have to do another Walk of Shame Version 2 , which is implemented in V3.0

- failing to report-in should cause a harsh punishment, much harder as it is now and harder as breaking any other rule like wear clothing

 

[mangalo]

Personally, I like the payment system.  I understand you see Slaverun as a mod you have to be entirely devoted to as a player, but the mod is so long that I need "breaks" from it, where my character has to make money somehow (dungeons, prostitution, quests, thieving etc).  If I'm not mistaken, you also made it so we can change the amount of gold, so we can just set it to 100 gold for example if we find it to be too high.

 

It also adds a nice "immersive" side, you are a slave and it's your duty to get your masters what they want, no matter how.  It's logical that they want some gold.

If you were to remove that feature, I would no longer have to get out of Whiterun (except special quests), which would get boring very fast.

 

Just my two cents here, but it looks like you want to push more and more "special slave" scenarios and I'm not entirely against it but it's too fast to my taste.  I usually make peasants or commoner characters because I want to start like everyone in the game.  The same goes for Slaverun where I want to be treated as every slave (at first, that is).  Getting that "special" status should take more time, time that you should/could spend harvesting money for your masters.

 

In the end, it would be nice if you gave people more options (with MCM or dialogues) so that they can choose if they have to report periodically, with money or not, and how fast special quests should appear.  But it's probably a pain in the ass to make it so, it's all up to you.

 

 

The patrol system seems nice, I previously suggested a slaver follower when you go outside, is it still out of the picture because of the follower AI package ?  Maybe it could plug to SD+ and let it handle external slavery.

[Janerunner]

I also like the report in feature. Maybe a thousand is a little high?

 

Not sure what to do if a character doesn't check in though. Some sort of patrol would be cool, but that might cause problems with other mods as you pointed out! Maybe a toggle?

[Nymra]

9 hours ago, Kenjoka said:

 

there have been a lot of comments about the report-in function and I was thinking about it. Btw that time-remaining-showed with the hotkey should be already implemented, at least in v3, I am not quite sure about V2

 

I created that playment of 1000 gold just to do anything when you report and because you learned in the basic slave training that your Master sends you for money (which is a relict of the original slaverun mod)

 

So here is what are my ideas and plans

I want to remove that pay 1000 gold overall. You are a special slave, running around in Skyrim and doing tasks for the Slave Master, so why he do want you to report periodically?

- first to make sure you haven't run away

 

At the moment it feels like running away is the one easiest thing to do in slaverun...

 

I know you want to make slaverun work with other mods and/or a normal playthrough probably. But I dont really see the reason why? Why worry about Captured Dreams compatibility? Why would the master take a Slaverun Slave in when he knows it causes problems. 

SD+ is a thing, since it can happen when you do your tasks in skyrim. 

 

In fact, I would almost suggest, that the slave can never leave Whiterun after beeing enslaved. Move Bellamy inside of Slaverun (I honestly dont know why he is outside at the gates anyway). 

 

When on an outside of slaverun task, always attach an NPC slaver to the slave. This slaver could have his own enforcer settings to take advantage of you while you make your tasks.

 

Travelling with carriage ofc would be a problem... 

 

Quote

- then to check if you are in good shape and don't got any bad ideas and still a good trained slave, submissive and filthy

 

you need to check Maria Eden for the "checking if in good shape". In Maria Eden there is a little staged scene where the PC will bend over and show ass and then pussy while the inspecting NPC is looking really closely. Features like that would make Slaverun really stand out even more! 

 

Quote

 

The second thing is when you failed to report in time

- there are wishes to send a slaver patrol for you; so maybe I will doing that (configurable); the problem I see is that you do something completely different and suddenly a patrol pops up, maybe in a scene from another mod... maybe you just doing a Captured dreams job or are a slave in SD, or Prison Overhaul is just doing the same... so there is alot which can go completly wrong

See above: why bother? I found that mods are incompatible all the time or massivly immersion breaking. Especialls Captured Dreams with its chasity fetish is a special thing... it can basically only played on its own really. 

 

Prion Overhaul is already supported by Slaverun. Why not add a "timeout" on Slaver Patrols or reporting in when in prison? 

 

 

Quote

- I will not let you walk with the patrol through half of Skyrim... I find this total boring, but what I can imagine is that they will bring you near Whiterun... then escort you to Bellamy and hand you over to him and as a punishment there you will have to do another Walk of Shame Version 2 , which is implemented in V3.0

There are mods which make that happen, PoP included. It can be quite nice! BUt it should have some "fun" on the way, like periodic rape or whipping by the slave patrol.

 

You could also check "Riding Styles" mod. It could be a perfect alterantive for Slaverun carriage travel. 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Question: 

Is there a way to make the enforcer calls only to be true for the PC? 

I tried around with the options, but even when I enable sex for player and disable sex calls for slaves, nothing happens.

Would be really nice if that was possible.

 

Its also quite annoying that if you have too many enforcer calls, they will break each others scenes. 

That part is a bit annoying, since I would like to have enforcer calls to have the immersion of beeing a slave and always available. 

But it breaks too many things right now and I had to turn it off

 

Any suggestions? 

[Lupine00]

Sounds like the plan is to make Slaverun more like DCL Leon/Leah (who can also control your access to food) ... which is OK if it's optional. Sometimes you want to go off and do something other than sex scenes, and not being allowed to have any armor or weapons stops that.

 

But I get the sense that Slaverun doesn't make a lot of sense if you level up and get powerful. It doesn't have scenes and dialogues set up to recognize that, and it becomes nonsensical when you are so powerful that the lovely slavemistress would barely register as a bump in the road if you had to fight her, but you are being overpowered and raped by a stray dog.

 

Now that idea of attaching an enforcer to you... Sounds more like DCL Sasha, who has turned out to be super-popular, and also the closest thing to classic Submissive Lola functionality that is new and fresh. I think that could work pretty well, if you can talk to the follower to get them to give you certain kinds of flexibility when you need it, but you have to suffer for it later. A lot of people like it, but personally I don't. Followers bug me. The problem though, is that it would require changes to many existing slaverun quests so that they still make sense story-wise.

 

Spoiler alert:

Spoiler

One of the problems with Slaverun is story pacing. It goes all-out in basic slave training, leaving little room to escalate things. The carriage journey with the massive animal abuse almost manages it, but the impact is already less because the player has already been through the basic training and the walk of shame. It's not a gameplay problem, it's a story problem. It's so shocking at the start that you quickly go numb, and what remains is largely the funny bits. Sometimes it fails on suspension of disbelief, like when in one quest you don't blink at assisting with a crucifixion, but in another quest, from the same quest giver, that you might get after the execution, has you running back and forth, weeping and wringing your hands over a single whipping, one of hundreds such administered to the NPC in question, and one of dozens of whipping you have personally administered. Mainly though, you get so numb to the punishments that they simply become filler, a joke routine, but less funny than Igor's blowjobs, and it's tempting to turn them off.

 

As all the "best" bits of the slavery are front loaded, it makes more sense for a player to want to start off a slave and then become "free" later on, and for the majority of the story, aiding Pike because they want to, or because he has some plausible lever (and Ivana does not work in that respect). This makes it easier to support a character who grows in power, and naturally, as with all major Skyrim questslines, replaces her masters when the fail, and takes over control. Ending up trying to conquer Skyrim with your own brand of slavery, with Pike and Maria as pets. Sounds fun to me.

 

Right now, Slaverun lets you have unfettered access to vanilla content and that can paper over a lot of weaknesses in the Slaverun quests.

 

As long as you can make the payments, you can pretty much do as you please. This is a good thing, though I see wanting to get rid of the payments  and have something else also makes sense.

 

 

The freedom to do all the vanilla content if you want to, doesn't really work with the story, but it does work for the gameplay.

The player just has to turn a blind eye to the story inconsistency. It gets harder to do that as time goes by.

But there's a choice. You can do it, or not, and Slaverun works either way, which is great.

 

 

So one path forward for Slaverun is to accept that a lot of vanilla content could be in the mix, and to make more sense of a potentially powerful player-character, and offer:

• recognition of a potentially powerful PC in the storyline, so you can play strong or weak "paths" and get different dialogues (possibly different quest variations too)
• legitimate "story" mechanisms for Pike to control a powerful Dragonborn beyond threatening a "slave sister" you don't really know that well (and who drops you in it, repeatedly). Care of Ivana's life cannot rationally trump the wellbeing of all the women in Skyrim, even if the Dragonborn is well-intentioned, and she might not be.
• choices for the player to be evil as well as good (i.e. post DOCH PC would kill Ivana at the drop of a hat, just for fun, and Pike too if he doesn't have a magical protection).
• neat comedy/humiliation plays on the player success, as in the Winterhold stuff with the College quest line

How to keep a dragon killer on a leash...

Spoiler

 

Arguably, the slaver vs non-slaver lines nod towards this already, but the DOCH and Succubus lines potentially provide a means for the Dragonborn to be controlled by arcane means, and for Pike and his buddies to coerce the Dragonborn into obedience if they really have to. Let's say that Pike has a special ward against summoned creatures given to him by a daedra, and the Dragonborn's icy heart in a box, ready to destroy in case of emergency... It's a classic trope, and ultimately there's a means to regain your autonomy - just steal back the means of control. Get a normal human to take the ward from Pike and then seize back your heart before he can crush it. Sounds like two quests already!

 

 

One final puzzle piece, is how to provide punishments in Slaverun that feel like punishments. Whipping has no consequences for gameplay, and it gets a bit dull watching the player skate about the floor on their knees while the slavemasters pirouette, doing their spinning whipping attack, over and over, making that one single sound effect repeatedly. There is so much whipping, it's probably the first thing I'll crack and turn off. At least with the sex, I have hundreds of different animations to watch, and both characters are animated. Imagine if one were stuck? That's whipping in Skyrim. Not just Slaverun has this issue, it's endemic. DCL's is the weirdest, with the frozen poses.

 

Zap 8 has tons of horrors in it. The wells, ground prisons, waterwheels, rack furniture, and such, and all those cages... Slaverun needs a bit of cage action now and again.

Even with all those, it's not enough to cover all the punishment needs of Slaverun, which has a lot of punishing! But if they were in. Wow!

 

This is a really tricky problem to solve. I think the "walk of shame" whipping in PoP is better than in Slaverun. At least there's a mini-game to it. Maybe Slaverun whipping needs a mini-game too?

 

Something where you take real damage, and have to time "pleading" to mitigate the most punishing blows? And some kind of pain-slut spell you have to cast that heals you, but also staggers and stuns you with arousal?

 

Honestly, I have no easy answer to this one, but my gut feeling is that punishment should have some peril to it, even if you can just reload and retry - and the same with dishing it out. Do it wrong and the slave is incapacitated for days and you get punished for messing up.

 

Or sometimes punishment could be a radiant quest, where you have to go to a bandit castle and get raped by the boss and some number of bandits, giant-spiders, etc. How to implement that? Not sure, but the radiant config does offer some information you could use to do it.

 

[ChaoSoul]

Spoiler

59 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Sounds like the plan is to make Slaverun more like DCL Leon/Leah (who can also control your access to food) ... which is OK if it's optional. Sometimes you want to go off and do something other than sex scenes, and not being allowed to have any armor or weapons stops that.

 

But I get the sense that Slaverun doesn't make a lot of sense if you level up and get powerful. It doesn't have scenes and dialogues set up to recognize that, and it becomes nonsensical when you are so powerful that the lovely slavemistress would barely register as a bump in the road if you had to fight her, but you are being overpowered and raped by a stray dog.

 

Now that idea of attaching an enforcer to you... Sounds more like DCL Sasha, who has turned out to be super-popular, and also the closest thing to classic Submissive Lola functionality that is new and fresh. I think that could work pretty well, if you can talk to the follower to get them to give you certain kinds of flexibility when you need it, but you have to suffer for it later. A lot of people like it, but personally I don't. Followers bug me. The problem though, is that it would require changes to many existing slaverun quests so that they still make sense story-wise.

 

Spoiler alert:

  Hide contents

One of the problems with Slaverun is story pacing. It goes all-out in basic slave training, leaving little room to escalate things. The carriage journey with the massive animal abuse almost manages it, but the impact is already less because the player has already been through the basic training and the walk of shame. It's not a gameplay problem, it's a story problem. It's so shocking at the start that you quickly go numb, and what remains is largely the funny bits. Sometimes it fails on suspension of disbelief, like when in one quest you don't blink at assisting with a crucifixion, but in another quest, from the same quest giver, that you might get after the execution, has you running back and forth, weeping and wringing your hands over a single whipping, one of hundreds such administered to the NPC in question, and one of dozens of whipping you have personally administered. Mainly though, you get so numb to the punishments that they simply become filler, a joke routine, but less funny than Igor's blowjobs, and it's tempting to turn them off.

 

As all the "best" bits of the slavery are front loaded, it makes more sense for a player to want to start off a slave and then become "free" later on, and for the majority of the story, aiding Pike because they want to, or because he has some plausible lever (and Ivana does not work in that respect). This makes it easier to support a character who grows in power, and naturally, as with all major Skyrim questslines, replaces her masters when the fail, and takes over control. Ending up trying to conquer Skyrim with your own brand of slavery, with Pike and Maria as pets. Sounds fun to me.

 

Right now, Slaverun lets you have unfettered access to vanilla content and that can paper over a lot of weaknesses in the Slaverun quests.

 

As long as you can make the payments, you can pretty much do as you please. This is a good thing, though I see wanting to get rid of the payments  and have something else also makes sense.

 

 

The freedom to do all the vanilla content if you want to, doesn't really work with the story, but it does work for the gameplay.

The player just has to turn a blind eye to the story inconsistency. It gets harder to do that as time goes by.

But there's a choice. You can do it, or not, and Slaverun works either way, which is great.

 

 

So one path forward for Slaverun is to accept that a lot of vanilla content could be in the mix, and to make more sense of a potentially powerful player-character, and offer:

• recognition of a potentially powerful PC in the storyline, so you can play strong or weak "paths" and get different dialogues (possibly different quest variations too)
• legitimate "story" mechanisms for Pike to control a powerful Dragonborn beyond threatening a "slave sister" you don't really know that well (and who drops you in it, repeatedly). Care of Ivana's life cannot rationally trump the wellbeing of all the women in Skyrim, even if the Dragonborn is well-intentioned, and she might not be.
• choices for the player to be evil as well as good (i.e. post DOCH PC would kill Ivana at the drop of a hat, just for fun, and Pike too if he doesn't have a magical protection).
• neat comedy/humiliation plays on the player success, as in the Winterhold stuff with the College quest line

How to keep a dragon killer on a leash...

  Hide contents

 

Arguably, the slaver vs non-slaver lines nod towards this already, but the DOCH and Succubus lines potentially provide a means for the Dragonborn to be controlled by arcane means, and for Pike and his buddies to coerce the Dragonborn into obedience if they really have to. Let's say that Pike has a special ward against summoned creatures given to him by a daedra, and the Dragonborn's icy heart in a box, ready to destroy in case of emergency... It's a classic trope, and ultimately there's a means to regain your autonomy - just steal back the means of control. Get a normal human to take the ward from Pike and then seize back your heart before he can crush it. Sounds like two quests already!

 

 

 

 

 

One final puzzle piece, is how to provide punishments in Slaverun that feel like punishments. Whipping has no consequences for gameplay, and it gets a bit dull watching the player skate about the floor on their knees while the slavemasters pirouette, doing their spinning whipping attack, over and over, making that one single sound effect repeatedly. There is so much whipping, it's probably the first thing I'll crack and turn off. At least with the sex, I have hundreds of different animations to watch, and both characters are animated. Imagine if one were stuck? That's whipping in Skyrim. Not just Slaverun has this issue, it's endemic. DCL's is the weirdest, with the frozen poses.

 

Zap 8 has tons of horrors in it. The wells, ground prisons, waterwheels, rack furniture, and such, and all those cages... Slaverun needs a bit of cage action now and again.

Even with all those, it's not enough to cover all the punishment needs of Slaverun, which has a lot of punishing! But if they were in. Wow!

 

This is a really tricky problem to solve. I think the "walk of shame" whipping in PoP is better than in Slaverun. At least there's a mini-game to it. Maybe Slaverun whipping needs a mini-game too?

 

Something where you take real damage, and have to time "pleading" to mitigate the most punishing blows? And some kind of pain-slut spell you have to cast that heals you, but also staggers and stuns you with arousal?

 

Honestly, I have no easy answer to this one, but my gut feeling is that punishment should have some peril to it, even if you can just reload and retry - and the same with dishing it out. Do it wrong and the slave is incapacitated for days and you get punished for messing up.

 

Or sometimes punishment could be a radiant quest, where you have to go to a bandit castle and get raped by the boss and some number of bandits, giant-spiders, etc. How to implement that? Not sure, but the radiant config does offer some information you could use to do it.

 

 

 

Oh damn, you made me think again haha!

 

First of, how does Slaverun handle Savus' death in the Winterhold questline? I ask because of a playthrough I started in the middle of my slaverun sub-slave playthrough which I have btw ended (the ending party was amazing, again great work on the mod as a whole). In this other playthrough my char is both the guildleader of the thieves guild and the headmaster of the college of winterhold... first one is more of a narrative problem, but the other... well Savus is dead... Ancano is dead... and I'm unsure but I think that Mirabelle is too... or someone... a women... or was it because of AA? I don't know now. Nevertheless... Winterhold questline seems to be completely impossible to do now in case my char gets enslaved. And the only option is probably to switch on automatic city enslavement and let it do it's work there... So much potential for a humiliation story!

 

So... of course... another post which will be too long but I'm still hoping they offer you some ideas, Kenjoka

(To those new to the thread who are just lurking around because they like to read crazy long, probably never to be made ideas like I liked to do past two years... I strongly suggest going a few pages back and checking out my other comments in this thread... not saying they are good... just saying that this spoiler below will still be kind of influenced by them as it became my "crazy-dream-of-potential of what slaverun could be if Kenjoka were a robot and did not need to sleep".)

 

Spoiler

To make slaverun work as well with other quests as it is humanly possible and to let people complete the playthrough either 'sub' or 'rebel' or even 'broken' I'd like to suggest some ideas for both breaking scenarios, where PC can never go back, and simple 'remember-your-place-bitch' scenarios where PC's titles are either taken away or she submissively uses her old influences to give her new master what he wants. (will do next time... ran out of time, sorry, I'll be sure to think about them some more though)

 

1. Breaking - It would be an amazing work around to start with.

Your PC is a Dragonborn, defeated Alduin, Miraak and whoever else?! Don't worry! Pike has a lot of ways to show his new slut her righteous place and even make her fully agree with his point of view! 

After being 'broken' PC goes over the threshold of 20 on the sub counter (just a 21 which changes a lot). She can never get more rebellious (go 20 or less) as she is only able to obey her master and desires only to be perfect in his eyes. Additional radiant events maybe, as every men in Skyrim now has full control over PC.

In most playthroughs it can be fully avoided as maybe it's just very difficult and expensive and maybe Pike also doesn't want to use it if he doesn't have to 'cause the lethality is just too high.

 

A. Breaking Training: (Ties into my older post about adding different starting outcomes of getting enslaved) 

After being a free-woman or a slaver for a while and getting tricked into becoming a slave while having the "hostility towards slavery" counter very high I suggested ultra-hard training which ties into this pretty well. Pike knows you are that crazy rebellious chick, but he really wants this piece of ass to fully belong to him. Cue the 'breaking'. The process should probably entail forcing the player through all the "sth-slut" training and a few different "Walk of Shame" events.

 

B. Skooma-Slut Training: Optional: Needs Skooma Whore

PC becomes 'broken' by addiction to Skooma. Somewhere down the enslavement route if Skooma Whore is present (or not if you'd rather do it without, but I'll focus on how it would work with SW) a side-quests begins. A skooming slavery law gets introduced. #TalkWithBellamy

Bellamy: <force greeting> Do I see a slight frown on your pretty face? That tells me you aren't complying with the newest law, slave.

PC: Master Bellamy? What law do I not comply with? (I am naked even here, outside the city walls... - if naked)

That-other-guy (if naked) : That's a proper slut! (or some other praise)

B: Well, I guess you haven't heard yet. Pike passed another slavery law! From now on all slaves are to be constantly under the influence of Skooma. Since you look so pretty with your mouth gaped in shock on your face let me help you to comply! (Bellamy seems to be kinda blind to what emotions the slave really shows so... actually 'shock' could be changed for 'amazement' showing he believes you are happy to be drugged, and works great also if you were a very submissive slave who actually could be happy with this situation)

PC gets drugged and fucked - #TalkWithPikeAboutTheNewLaw

Pike: <force greeting> Come here, slut! Have you heard about the new law?

PC: Y-yesh... M... <giggles> Master...

P: Haha! And I see you are already high as fuck! This stuff is amazing! Some Khajiit trader tried to cheat me a few days ago and I got all of this free skooma as I threatened to shout for the guards! Since I had all these free bottles swaying the Jarl to the introduction of the skooming law was a piece of cake. Now skooma is given away to men all over Skyrim and they can force it upon any slave they see fit! Once addicted you will be like animals! Begging to do anything for your masters just to get a bottle of Skooma! No more escaping slaves, no more resistance. A slaver's dream... But now, tell me, cocksleeve, how does it feel? Are you getting wet hearing of your Master's genius? Would you like another bottle?

PC (sub): Yesh Master! It makesh me feel shooo much! And when Bellamy fucked me at the gate... <giggles> It felt SHOOO goood!

P: Lovely! You are so eager! You all bitches probably do nothing but dream about loosing your ability to think already! I hope you will be the first one to brake. If you do I will happily reward you, my pet. But you need to earn it all, slut. Come here and suck my dick! And don't you dare spill anything. I want to see my cum mix with skooma as I fuck your throat with that bottle.

OR

PC (rebel-smart): Oh, but... but I love serving you, Slave Master. If I'll stay high like that I might not be able to do your jobs properly!

P: Huh... That... raises concerns. Alright slut. I'll give you a way out of becoming completely mindless. You bring me 100.000 gold and/or bring me 20 slaves before you get addicted, like I'm sure you will, and I will consider letting you stay out of the skooming law. But I dislike it when my slaves think. Since you love to serve me, you can show that by obediently chugging down this bottle. Yeah, shove it deeper down your throat. Just like that. Let me see how it moves up and down your throat. Fuck it, now I need to fuck your throat. The rest of this bottle I'll make you drink with your asshole.

OR

PC (rebel): No! It's awful! You can't keep doing that to me!

P: You bitch! I'll show you what I CAN do to you! Oh, stop clenching your teeth! You've got other gaping fuck-holes for me to push this bottle into! Ha! Now that your asspipe fills with skooma you opened your mouth so invitingly! Here! With this one I will stuff your face! And this bottle be filling your womb! Haha! We've trained your pussy so well it just sucked the whole bottle in! Let's replace the one in your asshole and let's see how deep I can push it with my cock, you ungrateful bitch!

 

The side quest simply works in the background checking PC's addiction level. While it's active Skyrim's men, and some women (they hate you! you brought them the slavery laws!) in enslaved cities will happily oblige with the law. When you aren't drugged (active effects of actual skooma or one of the other skooma whore drugs) they have a random chance to force you to compell with the law. You also get a dialogue option to beg men for skooma (really suuub...) and have a small chance of being talked to by someone who wants to help you survive and gives you a herbal tea potion or that other one (both SW) which can reduce your addiction. Slavers will always force you to use a drug if you enter conversation with them while not drugged. When you get fully addicted (severity lvl 4 in SW I believe) the option to resist becoming a "Skooma-Slut" (such an awesome way of implementing another "-slut" in the mix) is taken away. #ReportToPike

PC: Master!

Pike: What is it, you crazy bitch!? Should I punish you for your insolence?!

PC: Oh, Master, please do if that is your wish.

P: That look on your face... It's as if you were truly mindless now! Perfect! This mindless look in your eyes suits you, slut. I did hope you'd brake first. Other slaves looked at you with hope!

PC: Silly sluts... <giggles> 

P: Breaking you alone might already make them submit. And you are so perfect now! I think you need to be rewarded for achieving the goal of your existence so quickly! How about I send you to the Jarl for a night so he can see how nicely you turned out, fucktoy?

PC: Oh yes, please Master! I will happily show him just how much of a cock-hungry, skooma driven slut every women in Skyrim should aspire to be!

P: Perfection!

(Followed by talking with the Jarl and a scene in his chambers) (He could be not so happy with the outcome and although very pleased with how PC turned out to be he could say that breaking with skooma every other slave would be too expensive and that they still need some slaves who at least know how to cook so from now on the skooming law works only on you, since for you, there is no hope anyway... so it probably works just as it worked before only know the events are tied to Skooma-Slut passive effect)

 

The option to resist is tricky. Try and stay not-drugged for as long as possible and buy the potions which help to fight your addiction.

Gain the horrendous amount of money and/or bring him a lot of slaves #ReportToPike. But you have to do it before Riften gets enslaved (or slightly after that) 'cause if you stay not addicted that long, and with his new Viagrix Pike will simply get angry and put you through the "Viagrix-Slut" training taking all hope away!

 

C. Viagrix-Slut Training: (Ties into my older post where I pretty much already suggested so much on the topic that I hardly have any idea what could be added)

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/52885-slaverun-reloaded-28-december-2017/?page=141&tab=comments#comment-2080736

 

Option B and C work well together but if PC gets enslaved after Riften is enslaved there is no need of course to start B. Additionally Voluntary C option for role play reasons.

 

[MrMagoo]

About the enforcer changes in 3.0 for footwear removal / choices on NPC's - great touch!

 

Has the enforcer been upgraded at all for NPC's in 3.0? Currently many NPC females can wander around Whiterun wearing not just the officially sanctioned boots, but gloves, hoods and weapons / ammo. This really isn't obeying the law - they should be enslaved or punished!

 

 

EDIT - I just realised I think the gloves are only when there is "no outfit" selected but weapons are still equipped for sure.

 

Also for anyone else who doesn't want to wait for 3.0 to change the "leather boots" using TES5Edit to alter the outfit in slaverun.esp and replacing the "leather boots" with another item of your choice seems to work fine... at least so far ^^

[Lupine00]

3.0 is going to be frustrating. Can I finish my 2.X playthrough before it comes out? If not, I have to wait before I can install 3.

 

But that's a good problem to have.

 

Will 3.0 require Zap 8 or DD4?

I think, with DD4, as a slave, you could do almost all of Slaverun cuffed, and it wouldn't be a problem. There are some scenes you have to use a whip, and one or two other activities helping the masters, that require device removal, but that's it. The only downside would be the restricted animation range.

 

Spoiler

It's possible to wear devices and not restrict animation:

 

I have my character wear classic zbf collar and cuffs whenever in Slaverun territory. As it's just cuffs, that hold the wrists close behind the back, and there's no chain, it doesn't look terrible if she drops out of "bound anim" for a scene. It's fine if an animation pulls her wrists apart. Just looks like they were temporarily unlocked.

 

They aren't DD items, and you can take them on and off at will because there's no key required, but when they're on, they still function as cuffs, and you can't use weapons or spells. I can pretend that Bellamy removes them at the gate if you are sent on a task, but I don't have to wade through dialogues to add or remove them, and if some event pops out of nowhere that might break with them on, they can be removed in an instant.

 

Too many times I've been caught trapped in DD items when a dragon shows up, lately an elder dragon. This is not good. The dragon persists if you hide inside, and reappears as soon as you come back out, and if you are slowed and unarmored, it will burn you up fast. You either have to get the devices off and kill the stupid dragon, or you die.

 

This is one reason why it's bad to level and do vanilla quests if playing the slave path - it makes wearing any inhibiting devices a death sentence - you can't really wear DD devices except when in safe spots.

 

I find that once you've got used to it, the DD lock-on mechanic is most fun when used for specific quest purposes, especially escape quests, and is just a bit of a time-sink otherwise.

 

 

Speaking of enforcers and clothes, I notice, that quite often, core Slaverun NPCs have dialogue that refers to taking off your clothes.

 

This is super-puzzling. You can't possibly be wearing clothes when most of those dialogues trigger. In other cases, it might be possible but unlikely, so why do the NPCs make a point of mentioning it?

 

Was there some older version where you could wear clothes all the time? Or earn the right to wear clothes?

 

You could be wearing devices, so it makes sense those would get removed, in some of the cases, but a dialogue reference to clothes seems so out of place in Slaverun that it stands out. Maybe replace occurrence of clothes with "devices" somewhere down the track?

 

[MyNameIsnt]

I understand that Ivana is an integral part of the mod and while I support the idea of having another fleshed out character alongside you, I can't help but feel that she was implemented poorly.

 

From the first time you meet her, she doesn't really give a fuck about you at all, so as a player I'm inclined to feel the same way about her, rather than giving into the slavers for her sake. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it gives her character room to grow so that you eventually come around to caring about what happens to her. However:

Ivana throws you under the bus every chance she gets.

 

When she's not harping on you to find a way to escape, she's bitching at you for getting her punished. This would be good and fine if she stuck her neck out for you every once in awhile, but she doesn't. She just sits there and complains.

 

Not only does she not look after you, but she leaves as soon as an escape opportunity arises without telling you. This part actually made me say "what the fuck" out loud, because now she's escalated from "thorn in my side" to "pain in my ass". With her gone, the PC's neck is now on the line.

 

This might be a personal grievance, but it really feels like she's being so condescending in every interaction with the PC. This Breton bitch is supposed to be older than the PC, so why isn't she looking after me? Why do I as a PC have to babysit her when she has the gratitude of a two-year old? It got to the point where I was actually happy when she got her arms amputated because she deserved it.

 

With that said, the rest of the mod is fantastic. There were a few pacing problems in the story, but I think the overall outcome was extremely well done. I especially liked the part with the fast travel carriages being changed; I thought that was very creative.

 

Ivana has a place in this mod, but as a player if I had the choice to keep babysitting Ivana, or kicking her ass and feeding her to the nearest troll, I'd pick the latter every time.

 

It should have been Ivana on that damn spit at the end of the bad end instead of me.

[Kenjoka]

6 hours ago, TheSpirit said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Oh damn, you made me think again haha!

 

First of, how does Slaverun handle Savus' death in the Winterhold questline? I ask because of a playthrough I started in the middle of my slaverun sub-slave playthrough which I have btw ended (the ending party was amazing, again great work on the mod as a whole). In this other playthrough my char is both the guildleader of the thieves guild and the headmaster of the college of winterhold... first one is more of a narrative problem, but the other... well Savus is dead... Ancano is dead... and I'm unsure but I think that Mirabelle is too... or someone... a women... or was it because of AA? I don't know now. Nevertheless... Winterhold questline seems to be completely impossible to do now in case my char gets enslaved. And the only option is probably to switch on automatic city enslavement and let it do it's work there... So much potential for a humiliation story!

 

So... of course... another post which will be too long but I'm still hoping they offer you some ideas, Kenjoka

(To those new to the thread who are just lurking around because they like to read crazy long, probably never to be made ideas like I liked to do past two years... I strongly suggest going a few pages back and checking out my other comments in this thread... not saying they are good... just saying that this spoiler below will still be kind of influenced by them as it became my "crazy-dream-of-potential of what slaverun could be if Kenjoka were a robot and did not need to sleep".)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To make slaverun work as well with other quests as it is humanly possible and to let people complete the playthrough either 'sub' or 'rebel' or even 'broken' I'd like to suggest some ideas for both breaking scenarios, where PC can never go back, and simple 'remember-your-place-bitch' scenarios where PC's titles are either taken away or she submissively uses her old influences to give her new master what he wants. (will do next time... ran out of time, sorry, I'll be sure to think about them some more though)

 

1. Breaking - It would be an amazing work around to start with.

Your PC is a Dragonborn, defeated Alduin, Miraak and whoever else?! Don't worry! Pike has a lot of ways to show his new slut her righteous place and even make her fully agree with his point of view! 

After being 'broken' PC goes over the threshold of 20 on the sub counter (just a 21 which changes a lot). She can never get more rebellious (go 20 or less) as she is only able to obey her master and desires only to be perfect in his eyes. Additional radiant events maybe, as every men in Skyrim now has full control over PC.

In most playthroughs it can be fully avoided as maybe it's just very difficult and expensive and maybe Pike also doesn't want to use it if he doesn't have to 'cause the lethality is just too high.

 

A. Breaking Training: (Ties into my older post about adding different starting outcomes of getting enslaved) 

After being a free-woman or a slaver for a while and getting tricked into becoming a slave while having the "hostility towards slavery" counter very high I suggested ultra-hard training which ties into this pretty well. Pike knows you are that crazy rebellious chick, but he really wants this piece of ass to fully belong to him. Cue the 'breaking'. The process should probably entail forcing the player through all the "sth-slut" training and a few different "Walk of Shame" events.

 

B. Skooma-Slut Training: Optional: Needs Skooma Whore

PC becomes 'broken' by addiction to Skooma. Somewhere down the enslavement route if Skooma Whore is present (or not if you'd rather do it without, but I'll focus on how it would work with SW) a side-quests begins. A skooming slavery law gets introduced. #TalkWithBellamy

Bellamy: <force greeting> Do I see a slight frown on your pretty face? That tells me you aren't complying with the newest law, slave.

PC: Master Bellamy? What law do I not comply with? (I am naked even here, outside the city walls... - if naked)

That-other-guy (if naked) : That's a proper slut! (or some other praise)

B: Well, I guess you haven't heard yet. Pike passed another slavery law! From now on all slaves are to be constantly under the influence of Skooma. Since you look so pretty with your mouth gaped in shock on your face let me help you to comply! (Bellamy seems to be kinda blind to what emotions the slave really shows so... actually 'shock' could be changed for 'amazement' showing he believes you are happy to be drugged, and works great also if you were a very submissive slave who actually could be happy with this situation)

PC gets drugged and fucked - #TalkWithPikeAboutTheNewLaw

Pike: <force greeting> Come here, slut! Have you heard about the new law?

PC: Y-yesh... M... <giggles> Master...

P: Haha! And I see you are already high as fuck! This stuff is amazing! Some Khajiit trader tried to cheat me a few days ago and I got all of this free skooma as I threatened to shout for the guards! Since I had all these free bottles swaying the Jarl to the introduction of the skooming law was a piece of cake. Now skooma is given away to men all over Skyrim and they can force it upon any slave they see fit! Once addicted you will be like animals! Begging to do anything for your masters just to get a bottle of Skooma! No more escaping slaves, no more resistance. A slaver's dream... But now, tell me, cocksleeve, how does it feel? Are you getting wet hearing of your Master's genius? Would you like another bottle?

PC (sub): Yesh Master! It makesh me feel shooo much! And when Bellamy fucked me at the gate... <giggles> It felt SHOOO goood!

P: Lovely! You are so eager! You all bitches probably do nothing but dream about loosing your ability to think already! I hope you will be the first one to brake. If you do I will happily reward you, my pet. But you need to earn it all, slut. Come here and suck my dick! And don't you dare spill anything. I want to see my cum mix with skooma as I fuck your throat with that bottle.

OR

PC (rebel-smart): Oh, but... but I love serving you, Slave Master. If I'll stay high like that I might not be able to do your jobs properly!

P: Huh... That... raises concerns. Alright slut. I'll give you a way out of becoming completely mindless. You bring me 100.000 gold and/or bring me 20 slaves before you get addicted, like I'm sure you will, and I will consider letting you stay out of the skooming law. But I dislike it when my slaves think. Since you love to serve me, you can show that by obediently chugging down this bottle. Yeah, shove it deeper down your throat. Just like that. Let me see how it moves up and down your throat. Fuck it, now I need to fuck your throat. The rest of this bottle I'll make you drink with your asshole.

OR

PC (rebel): No! It's awful! You can't keep doing that to me!

P: You bitch! I'll show you what I CAN do to you! Oh, stop clenching your teeth! You've got other gaping fuck-holes for me to push this bottle into! Ha! Now that your asspipe fills with skooma you opened your mouth so invitingly! Here! With this one I will stuff your face! And this bottle be filling your womb! Haha! We've trained your pussy so well it just sucked the whole bottle in! Let's replace the one in your asshole and let's see how deep I can push it with my cock, you ungrateful bitch!

 

The side quest simply works in the background checking PC's addiction level. While it's active Skyrim's men, and some women (they hate you! you brought them the slavery laws!) in enslaved cities will happily oblige with the law. When you aren't drugged (active effects of actual skooma or one of the other skooma whore drugs) they have a random chance to force you to compell with the law. You also get a dialogue option to beg men for skooma (really suuub...) and have a small chance of being talked to by someone who wants to help you survive and gives you a herbal tea potion or that other one (both SW) which can reduce your addiction. Slavers will always force you to use a drug if you enter conversation with them while not drugged. When you get fully addicted (severity lvl 4 in SW I believe) the option to resist becoming a "Skooma-Slut" (such an awesome way of implementing another "-slut" in the mix) is taken away. #ReportToPike

PC: Master!

Pike: What is it, you crazy bitch!? Should I punish you for your insolence?!

PC: Oh, Master, please do if that is your wish.

P: That look on your face... It's as if you were truly mindless now! Perfect! This mindless look in your eyes suits you, slut. I did hope you'd brake first. Other slaves looked at you with hope!

PC: Silly sluts... <giggles> 

P: Breaking you alone might already make them submit. And you are so perfect now! I think you need to be rewarded for achieving the goal of your existence so quickly! How about I send you to the Jarl for a night so he can see how nicely you turned out, fucktoy?

PC: Oh yes, please Master! I will happily show him just how much of a cock-hungry, skooma driven slut every women in Skyrim should aspire to be!

P: Perfection!

(Followed by talking with the Jarl and a scene in his chambers) (He could be not so happy with the outcome and although very pleased with how PC turned out to be he could say that breaking with skooma every other slave would be too expensive and that they still need some slaves who at least know how to cook so from now on the skooming law works only on you, since for you, there is no hope anyway... so it probably works just as it worked before only know the events are tied to Skooma-Slut passive effect)

 

The option to resist is tricky. Try and stay not-drugged for as long as possible and buy the potions which help to fight your addiction.

Gain the horrendous amount of money and/or bring him a lot of slaves #ReportToPike. But you have to do it before Riften gets enslaved (or slightly after that) 'cause if you stay not addicted that long, and with his new Viagrix Pike will simply get angry and put you through the "Viagrix-Slut" training taking all hope away!

 

C. Viagrix-Slut Training: (Ties into my older post where I pretty much already suggested so much on the topic that I hardly have any idea what could be added)

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/52885-slaverun-reloaded-28-december-2017/?page=141&tab=comments#comment-2080736

 

Option B and C work well together but if PC gets enslaved after Riften is enslaved there is no need of course to start B. Additionally Voluntary C option for role play reasons.

 

Slaverun has a switch whether you are the archmage already or you are not,

but if Savos is already dead and you are not the archmage then there would be a problem

[Kenjoka]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

3.0 is going to be frustrating. Can I finish my 2.X playthrough before it comes out? If not, I have to wait before I can install 3.

 

But that's a good problem to have.

 

Will 3.0 require Zap 8 or DD4?

I think, with DD4, as a slave, you could do almost all of Slaverun cuffed, and it wouldn't be a problem. There are some scenes you have to use a whip, and one or two other activities helping the masters, that require device removal, but that's it. The only downside would be the restricted animation range.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's possible to wear devices and not restrict animation:

 

I have my character wear classic zbf collar and cuffs whenever in Slaverun territory. As it's just cuffs, that hold the wrists close behind the back, and there's no chain, it doesn't look terrible if she drops out of "bound anim" for a scene. It's fine if an animation pulls her wrists apart. Just looks like they were temporarily unlocked.

 

They aren't DD items, and you can take them on and off at will because there's no key required, but when they're on, they still function as cuffs, and you can't use weapons or spells. I can pretend that Bellamy removes them at the gate if you are sent on a task, but I don't have to wade through dialogues to add or remove them, and if some event pops out of nowhere that might break with them on, they can be removed in an instant.

 

Too many times I've been caught trapped in DD items when a dragon shows up, lately an elder dragon. This is not good. The dragon persists if you hide inside, and reappears as soon as you come back out, and if you are slowed and unarmored, it will burn you up fast. You either have to get the devices off and kill the stupid dragon, or you die.

 

This is one reason why it's bad to level and do vanilla quests if playing the slave path - it makes wearing any inhibiting devices a death sentence - you can't really wear DD devices except when in safe spots.

 

I find that once you've got used to it, the DD lock-on mechanic is most fun when used for specific quest purposes, especially escape quests, and is just a bit of a time-sink otherwise.

 

 

Speaking of enforcers and clothes, I notice, that quite often, core Slaverun NPCs have dialogue that refers to taking off your clothes.

 

This is super-puzzling. You can't possibly be wearing clothes when most of those dialogues trigger. In other cases, it might be possible but unlikely, so why do the NPCs make a point of mentioning it?

 

Was there some older version where you could wear clothes all the time? Or earn the right to wear clothes?

 

You could be wearing devices, so it makes sense those would get removed, in some of the cases, but a dialogue reference to clothes seems so out of place in Slaverun that it stands out. Maybe replace occurrence of clothes with "devices" somewhere down the track?

 

yes,

version 3.0 will require dd4.0 and zap 8.0 which will be checked at the mod start

 

and the bad news is, that probably a first alpha version will come the next days...

not with the full content that I plan to be in the final 3.0 version but with everything (and tested) what I wanted to have in a first alpha

 

2 hours ago, 222304 said:

I understand that Ivana is an integral part of the mod and while I support the idea of having another fleshed out character alongside you, I can't help but feel that she was implemented poorly.

 

From the first time you meet her, she doesn't really give a fuck about you at all, so as a player I'm inclined to feel the same way about her, rather than giving into the slavers for her sake. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it gives her character room to grow so that you eventually come around to caring about what happens to her. However:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Ivana throws you under the bus every chance she gets.

 

When she's not harping on you to find a way to escape, she's bitching at you for getting her punished. This would be good and fine if she stuck her neck out for you every once in awhile, but she doesn't. She just sits there and complains.

 

Not only does she not look after you, but she leaves as soon as an escape opportunity arises without telling you. This part actually made me say "what the fuck" out loud, because now she's escalated from "thorn in my side" to "pain in my ass". With her gone, the PC's neck is now on the line.

 

This might be a personal grievance, but it really feels like she's being so condescending in every interaction with the PC. This Breton bitch is supposed to be older than the PC, so why isn't she looking after me? Why do I as a PC have to babysit her when she has the gratitude of a two-year old? It got to the point where I was actually happy when she got her arms amputated because she deserved it.
 

 

 

 

With that said, the rest of the mod is fantastic. There were a few pacing problems in the story, but I think the overall outcome was extremely well done. I especially liked the part with the fast travel carriages being changed; I thought that was very creative.

 

Ivana has a place in this mod, but as a player if I had the choice to keep babysitting Ivana, or kicking her ass and feeding her to the nearest troll, I'd pick the latter every time.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It should have been Ivana on that damn spit at the end of the bad end instead of me.

 

In my head Ivana is more a 'blond-cheerleader-girl' type... she plays nice and innocent to get what she wants ...

she is not bad... but she is also not a good selfless one

[Mud]

I always heavily disliked the gold demand part of the original Slaverun. It's been said by others before but it just doesn't work very well within the mod's own setting. Why would a slave be expected to earn money if they are considered free for the taking? They wouldn't be paid for prostitution and there's something goofy about someone going out slaying bandits and monsters for coin then coming back and playing the part of the feeble helpless slave.

 

Given the latter scenario I'd actually really love the player's combat prowess to open up the ability to escape or become a slaver, because if the slavers are going to keep sending the Dragonborn out to earn coin through combat she certainly isn't going to be remain weak and coercible forever. Either she's going to be defiant and threaten to put the slavers to the sword if they don't release her/give her a position of power, or she's mindbroken enough but still so powerful the slavers would decide she would be much better suited as muscle rather than a plaything.

[Kenjoka]

On 2.1.2018 at 6:16 PM, Lupine00 said:

Started the arena stuff. Seeing some bothersome device bugs. Probably already fixed in WIP, but just in case...

 

• When Bellamy adds devices for transport to the arena, he frequently tries to add two collars at once, corrupting the collar state and leaving one collar half fitted (has inventory device, but no render), and the other collar not fitted at all.

• When the Arena Master removes devices ready to fight, he doesn't remove them, only the armbinder and blindfold are removed.

• The Arena Master gives helmet, gauntlets and boots, and says "don't forget to wear them", but it's not possible to wear the gauntlets or boots because I am still in the DD restrictive gloves and boots that were not removed by him. Is this comedically "working as intended", or a bug?

• Arena master may also try to add two collars at once, causing same problem as mentioned above. Collar state remains perma-broken unless you fix it via console.

 

Less troublesome:

 

The Arena Master locks gear in his chest, but neglects to mention how you can get it back. (Though you can, he just doesn't say you can). 

First time this happened I expected items to be returned automatically when I arrived back in Slaverun, but they aren't, you have to get them from the chest before you leave.

I didn't, and so had to go to Arena again to get them.

The Arena Master does not understand that some DCL items are proper armor and does not remove them. Typically, items sold by Dollmaker, or found in Dollmaker DAMN surprises.

 

 

Puzzling behaviours:

 

Not sure how to tell what my progress in the Arena is - I win fights, but difficulty seems random, no sense of progression, and no idea how many fights are required, or whether doing them is progressing anything.

Small arena size makes spellcasters easy kills for melee oriented characters. I'm finding that I often one-shot them, using only the Daedric 1-hander.

Why a single 1H weapon, but no shield?

I fixed the dd problem in v3.0...

maybe I will also do a fix for 2.1

I won't change any balancing in the 'old' fight club arena, but this is a todo for the new Colosseum arena

On 2.1.2018 at 6:25 PM, Lupine00 said:

Another minor bug:

 

When you get the quest to take slaves to inns, Pike makes you take Giselle Puppycunt (or whatever she's called) to the BM and put her in the stocks, but she was already in the stocks in the BM and had been since the very early days of slavery in Whiterun, yet everyone acts as if this is a new state of affairs.

fixed in v3.0

On 4.1.2018 at 3:40 AM, shaddranat said:

Hehe, ok, I found a funny little bug just a few minutes ago.  I was doing the Slave Arena fights. When I asked the Arena Master who I was fighting, I was told it was a "creepy falmer" that had never been beaten and was apparently famous for decapitating his enemies and throat-fucking their severed head. I think "well, this should be interesting." So, I head up to the arena (even popped into my Succubus form, just in case this was going to be a real fight), draw my sword and get ready to battle.

 

And then my enemy arrives...and it was definitely a fox. Not an armored, super-combat kitsune or anything; just a normal damned fox!  Sure, it had the name and healthpool of this supposed skull-fucking Falmer, but it was still a fox, and it ran like a little bitch the entire fight.

 

This was also not a one-time event.  My next trip in I was told I was fighting the same enemy...and I did.  Ol' Foxy showed up a second time and died just as horribly as in the first. (High-five for unintended comic relief!)

 

fixed in 3.0

[Kenjoka]

7 minutes ago, Mud said:

I always heavily disliked the gold demand part of the original Slaverun. It's been said by others before but it just doesn't work very well within the mod's own setting. Why would a slave be expected to earn money if they are considered free for the taking? They wouldn't be paid for prostitution and there's something goofy about someone going out slaying bandits and monsters for coin then coming back and playing the part of the feeble helpless slave.

 

Given the latter scenario I'd actually really love the player's combat prowess to open up the ability to escape or become a slaver, because if the slavers are going to keep sending the Dragonborn out to earn coin through combat she certainly isn't going to be remain weak and coercible forever. Either she's going to be defiant and threaten to put the slavers to the sword if they don't release her/give her a position of power, or she's mindbroken enough but still so powerful the slavers would decide she would be much better suited as muscle rather than a plaything.

maybe you know the first Conan movie with A. Schwarzenegger?

He was a child when he was made a slave, grew up working in the cornmill and became a huge mountain of muscles

and then he is trained to be the most skilled gladiator ever and even then he is not breaking free and fighting for his freedom?

It's his owner who set's him free... a lot of things are going on in a person's mind

 

One goal I wanted to achieve in my mod with the most brutal slave trainings I could imagine was to totaly break the mind of the player character... and I am still trying

but hey she's the Dragonborn... at least in my game... and there is always hope :-)

[jfraser]

This is why what we need is a willpower stat. Once it drops below a certain point because of the constant abuse, the player can only pick non defiant dialogue because the character has been broken.

 

Naturally, there then has to be a way for someone to help raise it back up again. Perhaps instead of the people asking for help with the abolition quest, they can kidnap the player and try to reverse brainwash her.

[armymdic]

So the mod is working ok, but I have an issue. All of the women, once they are enslaved, are missing hands. I have all the dependencies installed. Any ideas?

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, 222304 said:

I understand that Ivana is an integral part of the mod and while I support the idea of having another fleshed out character alongside you, I can't help but feel that she was implemented poorly.

 

From the first time you meet her, she doesn't really give a fuck about you at all, so as a player I'm inclined to feel the same way about her, rather than giving into the slavers for her sake. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it gives her character room to grow so that you eventually come around to caring about what happens to her. However:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Ivana throws you under the bus every chance she gets.

 

When she's not harping on you to find a way to escape, she's bitching at you for getting her punished. This would be good and fine if she stuck her neck out for you every once in awhile, but she doesn't. She just sits there and complains.

 

Not only does she not look after you, but she leaves as soon as an escape opportunity arises without telling you. This part actually made me say "what the fuck" out loud, because now she's escalated from "thorn in my side" to "pain in my ass". With her gone, the PC's neck is now on the line.

 

This might be a personal grievance, but it really feels like she's being so condescending in every interaction with the PC. This Breton bitch is supposed to be older than the PC, so why isn't she looking after me? Why do I as a PC have to babysit her when she has the gratitude of a two-year old? It got to the point where I was actually happy when she got her arms amputated because she deserved it.
 

 

 

 

With that said, the rest of the mod is fantastic. There were a few pacing problems in the story, but I think the overall outcome was extremely well done. I especially liked the part with the fast travel carriages being changed; I thought that was very creative.

 

Ivana has a place in this mod, but as a player if I had the choice to keep babysitting Ivana, or kicking her ass and feeding her to the nearest troll, I'd pick the latter every time.

 

 

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It should have been Ivana on that damn spit at the end of the bad end instead of me.

 

I agree with every part of this, except I can't imagine you might grow to like her later.

 

Spoiler

 

Quite the opposite really. At first I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt, but after she runs, I have zero sympathy for her.

 

Personally, if I'd had a dialogue option to nail her up outside Whiterun as punishment for running away, I would have picked it. But then, my succubus Dragonborn isn't actually a nice person (any more). That would spoil the family reunion though.

 

 

There are other characters, who I'm curious to see more of, like Blake, or Jasmine.

As is, I don't necessarily care much about them, but I wouldn't mind a bit more dialogue time with them to see if I might.

 

Something that irks me a bit, is when I'm talking to Bellamy about something, and the quest demands I run back to Dragonsreach slave dungeon to confer with Ivana for a little chat about her opinion... Ivana!  For her opinions, I do not give two fucks, not at any point  - and fucks are real cheap in Slaverun.

Spoiler

 

Another thing, if I had a choice, there is no way I would trust her with information about the abolitionist movement. She has betrayed me once. She doesn't need to know. So it's pretty much madness to tell her. This comes back to the question of whether the PC is genuinely supposed to be an airhead, and Igor and Bellamy are right after all.

 

Now, I get these are put in as "content-extender" to make the quests take some time to complete, and there are many besides the ones with Ivana ... Igor springs to mind ... but at least Igor is a straight-up selfish condescending asshole with no pretensions, and you have to massage his ego, so it makes sense you need to ask him things.

 

 

Ivana fits the personality type that Kenjoka describes in his take on her. She is a good implementation of that intention, but I wouldn't mind an extra option on how I react to that, now and again.

 

Spoiler

 

I found it pretty hard to swallow that the PC wasn't crazy angry with her for running off, after the sacrifices that were made for her benefit.

Just one line of dialogue, a choice, whether to go cold on Ivana, or forgive her, would have created the impression of much more player choice, even if it made no difference to any future conversation.

 

 

Maybe if we could pick who we ask, when we need "advice". What about Eva's opinion? So, if you want to get the "submissive slave" advice, you ask Jasmine, if you want to be told to rebel, pick someone else.

 

 

Of course not everyone is going to dislike the same characters, but everyone likes it when bad stuff happens to characters they hate. More choices about things happening to characters along the way (good or bad) will always be appreciated.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Kenjoka said:

He was a child when he was made a slave, grew up working in the cornmill and became a huge mountain of muscles

and then he is trained to be the most skilled gladiator ever and even then he is not breaking free and fighting for his freedom?

It's his owner who set's him free... a lot of things are going on in a person's mind

That's the key there. Conan grows up as a slave and gladiator. He doesn't know any other way. Not so he can remember properly. He's indoctrinated as a child. We can suspend disbelief.

 

It's harder to believe that the adult Dragonborn, who is quite ... feisty ... and understands power, as an adult understands it, will willingly serve the slavers, when there is so much dialogue where she questions it.

 

There are two obstacles to overcome here:

1) creating a character arc for the Dragonborn, without dictating to the player too much about who that character is.

2) "selling" the idea of the Dragonborn's Stockholm syndrome, in a story sense.

 

With (1), it takes care and delicacy.

 

The player will immediately disconnect at the point you have the character do something at odds with their own idea of what the character is.

 

This is why the PC's dialogue is so bland in the vanilla game. Short, to the point statements, or simple questions don't define the Dragonborn's character, leaving the player to imagine whatever suits them. Ideally, the PC's responses are ambiguous, or leave room for interpretation, or offer a range of choices.

 

 

This is done in Slaverun too, in some places, for example, the ritualised question and response sequence between Pike and the PC that initiates a new quest sequence. This says nothing about the Dragonborn's real feelings or opinions. Maybe she really needs Pike to whip and beat her so she can cum. Maybe she hates him and wants him to die. The player knows this is what she has to say to Pike, and if she doesn't there will be consequences, so she says it. And we get our next quest, and everyone is happy.

 

 

But when the PC has to discuss her feelings about freedom with Ivana, its dangerous territory. Particularly, when it's not clear if they can be overheard. There's peril in the story, and there's a risk the dialog will irritate the player if it doesn't fit their expectations.

 

Personally, I'd indicate early in the story that "masters are always listening", and have no dialogue between the slaves that isn't potentially overheard by Pike or one of his cronies.

 

While this would mean a few lines would need to change, it would give a clear context to those conversations, that would help the player infer meaning.

 

We'd now know that if Ivana says something like:

Ivana: (Weeping) "I'm so glad the masters taught us that, deep down, all women yearn for a master. I was so empty before. So lost. The masters have made me so grateful."

We would know immediately that she is lying, to avoid torture. We are no longer unsure whether it's a private conversation, an honest thought, or simply all she dares to say, so its easy for the player to read between the lines (in this case might not even need the ham-fisted "weeping" tag). The excessive expositionary nature of it gives it away immediately. Nobody would ever say that, except to be overheard - except because they daren't speak the truth.

 

And because we now know the slavers are listening, we know that anything the PC says, is also for their benefit, and may be a lie. This stops her dialogue accidentally defining the Dragonborn's character in a way that contradict's the player's personal idea of it.

 

So when we have an exchange list:

Ivana: "Do you still hope to be free one day?"

Dragonslut: (glances sideways) "No. How could you even ask? The masters have made me free to be what I really am, an anal addicted painslut. Without them, I could never have done that."

We know there are facts there (the PC is, on the face of it, an anal addicted painslut), wouldn't have become so without the slavers, but we don't know if the PC is simply lying for Pike, or really means it, but either way, she is speaking for his benefit, not for Ivana.

 

 

As for (2), this can clearly be fixed by addition of new additional dialogue. While we are told some things about the Dragonslut's state of mind, and we see some things happen, we aren't shown in any clear way how she might need the slavers, how she might depend or rely on them.

 

Compare this to The Companions, who are basically a creepy cult, who all call each other "family" (like cult members do). Every line the Companions feed you is how they've got your back, how trustworthy they all are, how they are a family, a safe place to be, and a secretive pseudo-religion.

 

Pike too, is running a religion. He talks like it's all business, but a lot of what he does is bad business, and...

Spoiler

I think later on, the varied nature of slaver motivations is made explicit. We see several things driving Pike, and money is only one of them.

But we don't get so much of that "drank the coolaid" vibe from the Dragonborn, or the other slaves - mostly they whine and complain.

 

 

Reasons not to leave aren't quite enough to "sell" this to the player in a believable way, it needs reasons to stay. The emphasis is pivotal.

 

 

If we have both solid practical reasons why the PC cannot run (not won't run, but cannot run), and obvious character reasons why she wants to stay (and that's very different from not leaving). As the jargon goes, we need both internal and external reasons.

 

If we believe the PC is totally broken by the slavers, that's an internal reason, but it's tough to sell, and may sit well with some players, but not others.

 

Spoiler

We get a positive character reason to stay when the abolitionist movement is introduced, but it would be nice to have something before that point.

Ivana seems supposed to be that reason, but doesn't quite manage it.

 

What if, in the pre-quest, the PC actually manages to save several slaves. AND...

Ivana isn't taken until a bit later, and comes with the PC as a follower, from the start...

And so she knows about the slaves that were saved, and are now hiding out in the bandit cave...

 

And Ivana says something like:

"I know I can rely on you <DRAGONSLUT>. But if you ran away without me, I couldn't stand it. I don't know what I'd do. Left alone like that, I might do or say almost anything."

 

She doesn't name it, but there's a threat there - and even if a slaver is listening, he probably wouldn't catch onto it.

 

While this example casts Ivana as a piece of shit from the start, the fact is only confirmed later, so not really a problem?

 

If this were coupled with some kind of maguffin, for example a cursed collar that will kill the wearer if not recharged by a master on a regular basis, then the PC has both internal character, and external practical reasons to stay and do Pike's bidding, even before we get into whether the PC is broken by Pike or not.

 

While Kenjoka likes that it's about the PC being broken, I guess he also thinks the player should have a say in things, because he allows a choice of submissive or rebellious answers to questions. (There's a caveat to this, but ... later).

 

I think it would take a bunch of changes, to create a scenario where we can believe the PC wants to stay with the slavers, even if if the player is picking all the submissive dialogs, but as this post is so huge, I'll continue pontificating on that in another post.