Ed86 Posted November 16, 2018 Author Posted November 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Thanks. What mods use milk slave to flag slavery on the player? no one knows?
Lupine00 Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 17 hours ago, Ed86 said: 21 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Thanks. What mods use milk slave to flag slavery on the player? no one knows? So none really? Or a secret one you haven't released yet? (No point asking about that, as it's secret, but I did it anyway). I guess eight breasts is the max, but what is the practical limit of milk capacity per breast? Is there any limit? It's derived from (base + scale*level). base and scale default to 2 and 1 respectively, but do they have an enforced range anywhere? Is scale basically the same thing as the breast-node-scale, so it practically tops out at 10 ? That would be 8 * (2 + 100) = 816 ... quite a lot of milk. So what ranges do we see in practice? TBH, I've never had more than one breast row when I play, because I don't use growth potions. But I'm using MME as a difficulty increasing penalty system for the PC, not as a farmer, so I try to avoid breast growth.
Lupine00 Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 Something I noticed while I was poking about... In MME_Storage, in updateMilkCurrent IF the actor has more milk than their limit AND BreastScaleLimit is not set, the function has a specific control path that RETURNS the unclamped current milk, but STORES the clamped maximum milk. Isn't the effect of this is that on the next pass around the update, it reads the milk value from storage, which has the effect of clamping it? Effectively this duplicates the effect of enabling BreastScaleLimit, but with a one update delay. If this is fed into nodes/morphs, it would result in minor breast-popping, but mainly would end up clamping a value that seems like it shouldn't be clamped? In short, shouldn't it store the unclamped value in that third control path? Or are you using some cached milk value from elsewhere for the updates? In which case, why allow the stored value to differ from it - surely that is a recipe for confusion? (Sorry I couldn't paste the code, I'm typing this on a different machine to the one I'm coding on).
Ed86 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Posted November 17, 2018 19 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Is there any limit? no, i guess its 2,147,483,647 or 3.402823 × 1038 38 minutes ago, Lupine00 said: Something I noticed while I was poking about... In MME_Storage, in updateMilkCurrent IF the actor has more milk than their limit AND BreastScaleLimit is not set, the function has a specific control path that RETURNS the unclamped current milk, but STORES the clamped maximum milk. Isn't the effect of this is that on the next pass around the update, it reads the milk value from storage, which has the effect of clamping it? Effectively this duplicates the effect of enabling BreastScaleLimit, but with a one update delay. If this is fed into nodes/morphs, it would result in minor breast-popping, but mainly would end up clamping a value that seems like it shouldn't be clamped? In short, shouldn't it store the unclamped value in that third control path? Or are you using some cached milk value from elsewhere for the updates? In which case, why allow the stored value to differ from it - surely that is a recipe for confusion? (Sorry I couldn't paste the code, I'm typing this on a different machine to the one I'm coding on). bug, it only happens in when you change max breast limit option, or when level up, which requires milking, so breast are likely empty
hexenhaus Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 I use MME for some time now, but when it comes to milk-production I am so confused... basically I change the settings permantly because they don't fit my exspectations. Lets take some time to dive into the calculations in the main script: So what effects the milk generation (MilkTick): Spoiler MilkTickCycle = (BoobTick + MaidMilkGen)/3/10 * (1 + SLA.GetActorArousal(akActor)/100) * MilkProdMod/100 Arousal multiplies milk production (linear: 50 arousal -> 50% more milk per tick) Breastrows straightforward: each row multiplies production Breastsize [current breastsize + MilkGenValue(vanilla: 0.06)] / 30 Global production straightforward Lactacid straightforward Milk generation increase (MilkGenValue) straightforward: defined value MaidLevel based Milkgen (MaidLevelProgressionAffectsMilkGen) if true: multiplies MilkGenValue by MaidLevel (and by increasing breastsize) if false: increases in Maidlevel only increases breastsize, which increases Milk gneration) Pregnancy is checked if there is no lactacid -> increases milk generation, but how? To sum this up: Increasing breastsize during milk accumulation or through leveling MaidLevel, increases the milk production per tick plus "Milk generation increase"(MilkGenValue) divided by 30. That means that simplified bigger breasts produce linear more milk (double size = double milk per tick), while the MilkGenValue's (0.06 standard) impact is highly dependent on BreasRows, pregnancy, Lactacid (multiplier) and MaidLevel (if MaidLevel based Milkgen is checked). Simplified example (per hour): Breastsize 1: (1+0.06)/30 = 0.035 Breastsize 2: (2+0.06)/30 = 0.069 Breastsize 10: (10+0.06)/30 = 0.335 (per hour) For MaidLevel to achieve the same effect as Breastsize 10: Breastrows 5, Maidlevel 34, checkbox checked: (0.06*5*34)/30=0.34 OR without Breastrows Maidlevel=5x34=170 ? In total that would be then 0.68 milk per hour +arousal multiplier (1->2) + lactacid multiplier (x10). So boosting breastsize (potions) and waiting before milking is worth it! ========= The only point left is the effect of pregnancy on the MaidMilkGen: From the code i gather that if either pregnancy or lactacid is true, there is an increase in MaidMilkGen by factor MaidLevel, while no lactacid or pregnancy lower the value by 2x MaidLevel. But what effect does pregnancy have, if "MaidLevel based Milkgen" is not checked: With no lactacid or pregancy the MilkMaidGen is not altered? .../ (1 + MaidLevelProgressionAffectsMilkGen * MaidLevel) 1+0*x=1 There is no difference if pregnant or not! So does pregnancy only have an effect if "MaidLevel based Milkgen" is checked? =================== When i started with this post I had almost no clue, and now I mostly understand it I hope my confusing monologue gives some insights on how to adjust your settings. Later i will do a spreadsheet and if there is any interest i could link that too.
Ed86 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Posted November 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, hexenhaus said: Pregnancy is checked if there is no lactacid -> increases milk generation, but how? So does pregnancy only have an effect if "MaidLevel based Milkgen" is checked? if pregnant and breasts not full - increase milkgen if full - do nothing no
Moonlegis Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 i dont know what happen to the latest version i got no problem with the 2017-01-19 version,but the latest version with FNIS will come on this: Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFA for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFB for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFC for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFD for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFE for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFF for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFG for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFH for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFI for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFJ for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_01 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_02 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_03 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_04 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_05 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_06 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_07 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_08 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_09 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_10 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_11 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_12 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_13 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_14 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_01 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_02 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_03 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_04 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_05 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_06 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_07 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_08 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_09 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_10 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_11 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_12 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack
hexenhaus Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Ed86 said: if pregnant and breasts not full - increase milkgen if full - do nothing no But in what way does it increase MilkGen? Is it either Pregnancy or Lactation regarding MilkGen? How is the Lactacid factor calculated? Spoiler LactacidFactor = ((LactacidCnt * LactacidCnt) / LactacidMod / PapyrusUtil.ClampInt(MaidLevel, 1, MaidLevel + 1)) I see the code, but I am no coder at heart - maybe an example?
perrymwt Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, Moonlegis said: i dont know what happen to the latest version i got no problem with the 2017-01-19 version,but the latest version with FNIS will come on this: Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFA for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFB for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFC for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFD for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFE for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFF for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFG for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFH for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFI for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZAPCHorFJ for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_01 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_02 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_03 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_04 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_05 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_06 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_07 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_08 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_09 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_10 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_11 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_12 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_13 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMBoundFurn_14 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_01 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_02 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_03 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_04 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_05 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_06 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_07 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_08 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_09 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_10 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_11 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Duplicate AnimEvent ZaZMOMFreeFurn_12 for character, mods MME and ZaZAnimationPack Simple. ZAZ is no longer a hard requirement, so the animations are included in this mod now. I think it's a reaction to DDi 4.1 overlapping ZAZ 8.0+. If you had both, you had to remove SLAL packs to bring down your animation count from crashing Skyrim with too many animations. This allows you to remove ZAZ to free up slots.
Lupine00 Posted November 18, 2018 Posted November 18, 2018 It seems that the removal of Zaz from DD and DCL is still ... not perfect ... but likely by the next iteration, it will be. However, some other mods, like PoP and SD+ are still Zaz dependent, so getting rid of it isn't that easy. I think you can edit the Zaz files to remove the duplicate animations fairly easily if they are a problem. Incidentally, I have Zaz 8+ and the latest DD and DCL, and all the big SLAL packs, and I don't even need FNIS XXL. Really. There was an investigation into this on the DD forum. In practice, the SLAL packs use surprisingly few animations in many cases, and DD's use has gone down since the initial release of 4. Zaz 8 is a substantial user, but it's not as much as you might think. The problem with those override animations is coming from other mods, not SLAL packs, Zaz, DD, or DCL. People are sometimes a bit quick to cast blame here. Estrus for Skyrim has a lot of animations but none of them are animation replacements. It's stuff like Dual Sheath and Sexy Move that are using large amounts of a limited resource. From the perspective of those mod creators, they are the only game in town, and LL mods might as well not exist, so they think its fine to make heavy use of replacements without considering that DD (or Zaz) actually needs them to work.
LatencyRemix Posted November 19, 2018 Posted November 19, 2018 Is it possible to swap textures for multibreast's? By making a "textures\armor\MME_TITS" overwrite? What would the textures names need to be to replace over them? Are they the same names as the mesh names?
Lupine00 Posted November 19, 2018 Posted November 19, 2018 2 hours ago, LatencyRemix said: Is it possible to swap textures for multibreast's? By making a "textures\armor\MME_TITS" overwrite? What would the textures names need to be to replace over them? Are they the same names as the mesh names? No. They use the standard female skin texture: textures\actor\character\female\femalebody_1.dds textures\actor\character\female\femalebody_1_msn.dds textures\actor\character\female\femalebody_1_sk.dds textures\actor\character\female\femalebody_1_s.dds If you want them to use their own texture, you either need to edit the NIFs with NifSkope, or apply an override in the CK.
botticelli Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 Due to several mods feeding my character with breast enlargement potions, she now has a breast base size of 28.75: As you can see, this results in huge amounts of milk added each hour. Any value of gushing, regardless whether it be 5% or 100%, results in milking of 1 unit per tick which is useless. Could you change that to maxint (2^31-1) units per tick whenever milking with gushing would result in just 1 unit and milk stored is like > 100 units? Also, the milk amount stored oscillates from -maxint to maxint...
Ed86 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Posted November 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, botticelli said: Due to several mods feeding my character with breast enlargement potions, she now has a breast base size of 28.75: As you can see, this results in huge amounts of milk added each hour. Any value of gushing, regardless whether it be 5% or 100%, results in milking of 1 unit per tick which is useless. Could you change that to maxint (2^31-1) units per tick whenever milking with gushing would result in just 1 unit and milk stored is like > 100 units? Also, the milk amount stored oscillates from -maxint to maxint... i have better idea, how about you reverse engineer skyrim and upgrade it to x64 engine? that would solve your issues 1
botticelli Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 17 hours ago, Ed86 said: i have better idea, how about you reverse engineer skyrim and upgrade it to x64 engine? that would solve your issues Well you see, I did not intend to insult you in any way. If my post sounds like an insult, just forget it. I am only wondering why in some cases numbers greater than maxint do work (like in "Milk stored" or "Milk generation / hour") while in other cases they do not. Only, there is now no sane way to relieve my character of her milk, so she'll prbably burst.
Ed86 Posted November 21, 2018 Author Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, botticelli said: Well you see, I did not intend to insult you in any way. If my post sounds like an insult, just forget it. I am only wondering why in some cases numbers greater than maxint do work (like in "Milk stored" or "Milk generation / hour") while in other cases they do not. Only, there is now no sane way to relieve my character of her milk, so she'll prbably burst. its not insult, its you running mod with stupid settings generating millions of milk wanting a fix as to why its that way - i have no interest in investigating it
Lupine00 Posted November 22, 2018 Posted November 22, 2018 I've put up my little buff/debuff mod toy. https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/7589-sexlab-disparity-v12-2018-11-22/ It supports current milk, breast fullness percentage, and pain percentage from MME. When I add "on/off conditions" I want to add support for exhaustion. 1
HerChianti Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Hi there @Ed86, long time user of your mod, but a few days ago I started another playthrough after almost a year so naturally I updated your mod (with others) and I found a very annoying bug that makes it so self-milking (whether it's from the debug spell Milk Self or the new feature you added where I can self-milk by holding SHIFT and pressing the notif key) half the time ends up not doing any animation at all. My character just stands there doing faces and moaning, the milk starts running down but she herself just stands here motionless. (To give you a little bit more insight, I do know this seldomly happens when you try to milk yourself while near a combat or while being engaged in combat/etc, you'll end up milking yourself but without any animation, you can even run around and stuff while being milked. What I'm talking about here is when you are completely safe, no ememies around.) You have any idea as to why would this happen? I don't know how to check what's happening since the self-milking animations aren't shown in the console by SexLab neither they show up as Toggeable animations in Sexlab's list. One thing I noticed is that whenever an animation DOES play, it's either the one where your character grabs both breasts one with each hand and the one where she bends forward a lot and grabs one of her breasts while stroking her but with the other. I never see the animation where you self-milk with one hand while masturbating with the other while in an upright posture. I believe those are the 3 self-milking variants right? That could mean that that particular animation is not playing for some reason. But that's just my wild guess. Also, one last question: Quote v 14-08-2018added ability to change milking animation with notification key What does this mean? The only two uses for the notification key is to either see the notification milking info or to start/stop self-milking by using either/both shift keys. Am I missing something here?
Ed86 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, HerChianti said: Hi there @Ed86, long time user of your mod, but a few days ago I started another playthrough after almost a year so naturally I updated your mod (with others) and I found a very annoying bug that makes it so self-milking (whether it's from the debug spell Milk Self or the new feature you added where I can self-milk by holding SHIFT and pressing the notif key) half the time ends up not doing any animation at all. My character just stands there doing faces and moaning, the milk starts running down but she herself just stands here motionless. (To give you a little bit more insight, I do know this seldomly happens when you try to milk yourself while near a combat or while being engaged in combat/etc, you'll end up milking yourself but without any animation, you can even run around and stuff while being milked. What I'm talking about here is when you are completely safe, no ememies around.) You have any idea as to why would this happen? I don't know how to check what's happening since the self-milking animations aren't shown in the console by SexLab neither they show up as Toggeable animations in Sexlab's list. One thing I noticed is that whenever an animation DOES play, it's either the one where your character grabs both breasts one with each hand and the one where she bends forward a lot and grabs one of her breasts while stroking her but with the other. I never see the animation where you self-milk with one hand while masturbating with the other while in an upright posture. I believe those are the 3 self-milking variants right? That could mean that that particular animation is not playing for some reason. But that's just my wild guess. Also, one last question: What does this mean? The only two uses for the notification key is to either see the notification milking info or to start/stop self-milking by using either/both shift keys. Am I missing something here? ill fix that
hexenhaus Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 2 hours ago, HerChianti said: Hi there @Ed86, long time user of your mod, but a few days ago I started another playthrough after almost a year so naturally I updated your mod (with others) and I found a very annoying bug that makes it so self-milking (whether it's from the debug spell Milk Self or the new feature you added where I can self-milk by holding SHIFT and pressing the notif key) half the time ends up not doing any animation at all. My character just stands there doing faces and moaning, the milk starts running down but she herself just stands here motionless. (To give you a little bit more insight, I do know this seldomly happens when you try to milk yourself while near a combat or while being engaged in combat/etc, you'll end up milking yourself but without any animation, you can even run around and stuff while being milked. What I'm talking about here is when you are completely safe, no ememies around.) You have any idea as to why would this happen? I don't know how to check what's happening since the self-milking animations aren't shown in the console by SexLab neither they show up as Toggeable animations in Sexlab's list. One thing I noticed is that whenever an animation DOES play, it's either the one where your character grabs both breasts one with each hand and the one where she bends forward a lot and grabs one of her breasts while stroking her but with the other. I never see the animation where you self-milk with one hand while masturbating with the other while in an upright posture. I believe those are the 3 self-milking variants right? That could mean that that particular animation is not playing for some reason. But that's just my wild guess. Also, one last question: What does this mean? The only two uses for the notification key is to either see the notification milking info or to start/stop self-milking by using either/both shift keys. Am I missing something here? It does work, just do not press shift - just use "9" and hold it for a moment. Pressing Shift+9 will stop the animation. So you start by pressing 9 and if you want to continue walking while the milking finishes, press Shift+9 and you can walk again, while the milking finishes without animation.
HerChianti Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 The "animation not playing" bug happens if you use the Milk Self spell too, it has nothing to do with pressing shift+notif or just holding the notif key down.
HerChianti Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Ed86 said: fix Scripts.7z You're the best! Thanks a lot! It works great ? Remember to add this on your next update so it doesn't fall behind with the rest of the stuff you're adding/changing/fixing.
Xiaron Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Quick question. I have skooma effects turned off, but using lactacid in front of a guard still gets me a bounty. Any idea why?
Ed86 Posted November 28, 2018 Author Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Xiaron said: Quick question. I have skooma effects turned off, but using lactacid in front of a guard still gets me a bounty. Any idea why? use have mod that makes drinking skooma/milk offence?
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