SexLab Sex Slaves 6.2 December 06, 2016

[xyzxyz]

9 hours ago, hoodsr said:

niri and vess are still sitting and gagged and I've released them. should it be anyway?

I'm sure it should not be like that. At what point of the quest are you?

[ivanhatt]

10 hours ago, xyzxyz said:

I'm sure it should not be like that. At what point of the quest are you?

after this quest I did the virgin quest is also the anal plug but they are still there

[xyzxyz]

22 minutes ago, hoodsr said:

after this quest I did the virgin quest is also the anal plug but they are still there

In which quest ave they been bound? Wasn't that early during invading Mias castle?

[fishburger67]

21 hours ago, hoodsr said:

niri and vess are still sitting and gagged and I've released them. should it be anyway?

After you complete the the main quest, you should get a new quest marker to go and release them (or deal with them in some way).  The virgin quest has nothing to do with it.

[ivanhatt]

1 hour ago, fishburger67 said:

After you complete the the main quest, you should get a new quest marker to go and release them (or deal with them in some way).  The virgin quest has nothing to do with it.

I did it but they are still there

[ivanhatt]

2 hours ago, xyzxyz said:

In which quest ave they been bound? Wasn't that early during invading Mias castle?

Yes 

[nufndash]

Could someone tell me how to tie up Vess at the Hunters lodge, I have healed her wounds and was instructed to tie her up, I don't have any more dialogue or quest markers.  I could use the knock down feature of Defeat and tie her up, but I doubt that was how it was supposed to be done. or Defeat would have been a pre-req.  I don't want to break something by doing it that way, if I am supposed to do it another way.  

 

Edit: Solved. In case someone else runs into the same problem, where you heal Vess but she just continues to lie there. Leave the cell(fast travel somewhere) and back and she should now be standing.

[Libita]

" Sex Slaves for Vanilla Bandit Camps " is listed as incompatible, but what about "Sexy Bandit Captives", which was based upon the aforementioned one way back when? Is it known whether this one and Sexy Bandit Captives are compatible?

[shar181]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:19 AM, swmas said:

A shame though cause the mod is complete except for the animation problem which completely ruins it. If the mod were to select out of a pool of animations instead of specific ones which are ancient and don't even work on most setups since SLAL came up, this mod would be playable forever. I hope at least someone else make a patch for it. Thanks though I made great memories with this mod.

This is the exact reason I removed Sex Slaves for my most recent game. ><; That, and the weird gender restriction on bringing new slaves to train. My female dragonborn wants to be a domme. T-T

 

I tried making these changes myself, with the goal of tailoring the mod for a dickgirl dragonborn... but never got it to work. Hopefully someone else can figure out how to update it.

[oyashirou]

I got this after the gas trap
Is there any console could fix this?

[fishburger67]

8 hours ago, oyashirou said:

I got this after the gas trap
Is there any console could fix this?

Don't understand what the issue is from your picture.

 

Please provide complete details and not a picture.

[shylizzie]

On 12/17/2015 at 3:26 AM, fishburger67 said:

 

We'll have more content for you in the next release.  I too don't play Andrew and am not at all into slavery.

Please more content for andrew ?

 

Also is this update available for se flower girl edition?

[fishburger67]

12 minutes ago, shylizzie said:

Please more content for andrew ?

 

Also is this update available for se flower girl edition?

Gads, do you see the date on that original quote (12/15/2015)?  I have long since stopped adding to this.  One day if I ever get some time, maybe I'll come back and redo this completely, but by then, there might be other Beth games to hack.

[Lupine00]

I've been playing Dominant Andrew for ... some time ... now.

I have questions relating to whether I'm progressing, or whether my game is stuck ... also horses.

 

I'll put this in a spoiler tag ... because there are spoilers...

Spoiler

 

I've completed many quests for him. I did the important part with the Skooma, and also the next major event at Old Hroldan...

 

Andrew's dialog options haven't changed since initially accepting the collar.

 

 

Andrew seems to still be giving me radiant quests to find bondage items, which he confiscates when I find them.

I've found a pony tail and chastity belt so far that he appropriated.

 

However, despite the above, my relationship level still says 5 in the MCM, and the percentage to next level goes up, and up, up to 100%, then resets to 0%, over and over.

Is this ... normal?

 

How far into his quest sequence am I?

Am I still only at 5 out of 12?

Or did the MCM never support the additional relationship levels?

 

Is the quest progressing normally?

Or is my game broken?

 

 

Also, I have a horse. And (sometimes) I ride the horse over long distances, but Andrew has no reactions or responses, nor does he have his own horse or express an interest in obtaining one. He just runs behind, badly, not keeping up.

 

Is that broken? He keeps making comments about how it would be easier to explore on horseback, but I can't find a way to make him act on that.

 

 

It's sometimes fun to defy Andrew. Does this block your progress, or does it help it? Or make no difference?

I think he ought to enjoy a little resistance so he can punish you more.

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

How far into his quest sequence am I?

I did also see the level jumping low and high value without much consistency. Doing sex acts with him seemed to always push it up a bit.

 

I'll spoiler this as it's progression:

Spoiler

It seems to me that you are close to the end by now. The most significant factor i found was trying to keep him happy with sex, and then wait or sleep in periods of ~12 hours at the time. The events did seem to be much time based activations.

 

You should very soon get the quest to visit the mansion, and then after not much waiting (less than a day propably) another stage.

 

I was reading through the dialog texts in TES5Edit afterwards as i think i'm done with the save, and i couldn't really find anything i missed out on the mod, so i guess that's it.

... That's the last part as far as i know, but i couldn't figure out how to trigger any events afterwards in the playroom. Maybe that was left for other mods to deal with. I did also see something in earlier stages of the game when trying what happens when abandoning him.

Spoiler

You get a chastity belt on that slows down movement speed. But after waiting some days i didn't want to wait more as there were no clues as to something more would happen. Loaded game back before the abandoning.

 

Overall mods like this are fun, but i was hoping for DD integration. I understand it's an old mod though. Just something for future mods.

[Lupine00]

In response to Zaflis...

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Zaflis said:

That's the last part as far as i know, but i couldn't figure out how to trigger any events afterwards in the playroom. Maybe that was left for other mods to deal with. I did also see something in earlier stages of the game when trying what happens when abandoning him.

After you get the belt, if you have sex with anyone else, he takes some of your armor and puts the belt on you as punishment.

He will remove it again after a while.

 

Previous to that, he just takes your armor.

I think he will also sometimes do that if you refuse to have sex.

 

 

[Zaflis]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

In response to Zaflis...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

After you get the belt, if you have sex with anyone else, he takes some of your armor and puts the belt on you as punishment.

He will remove it again after a while.

 

Previous to that, he just takes your armor.

I think he will also sometimes do that if you refuse to have sex.

 

 

I saw that too, it's similar. What i meant was the "It's time to part ways" followup. He wasn't very happy about that.

Spoiler

So he leaves you with nonremovable belt and goes home, wherever that is. I really didn't test this part well, but there might be more dialog options from him later to remove it, as non-follower.

 

I had a sex-caused belt removed quickly after, within a day or less in other case. But i don't know if this mod will use the cage or ZAP furniture.

 

[fishburger67]

On 10/5/2019 at 6:45 PM, Lupine00 said:

I've been playing Dominant Andrew for ... some time ... now.

I have questions relating to whether I'm progressing, or whether my game is stuck ... also horses.

 

I'll put this in a spoiler tag ... because there are spoilers...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I've completed many quests for him. I did the important part with the Skooma, and also the next major event at Old Hroldan...

 

Andrew's dialog options haven't changed since initially accepting the collar.

 

 

Andrew seems to still be giving me radiant quests to find bondage items, which he confiscates when I find them.

I've found a pony tail and chastity belt so far that he appropriated.

 

However, despite the above, my relationship level still says 5 in the MCM, and the percentage to next level goes up, and up, up to 100%, then resets to 0%, over and over.

Is this ... normal?

 

How far into his quest sequence am I?

Am I still only at 5 out of 12?

Or did the MCM never support the additional relationship levels?

 

Is the quest progressing normally?

Or is my game broken?

 

 

Also, I have a horse. And (sometimes) I ride the horse over long distances, but Andrew has no reactions or responses, nor does he have his own horse or express an interest in obtaining one. He just runs behind, badly, not keeping up.

 

Is that broken? He keeps making comments about how it would be easier to explore on horseback, but I can't find a way to make him act on that.

 

 

It's sometimes fun to defy Andrew. Does this block your progress, or does it help it? Or make no difference?

I think he ought to enjoy a little resistance so he can punish you more.

You are close to the end.  Just keep going.  You get a quest to get a shield in a really nasty dungeon and then rescue andrews sister and then access to his playroom.  When you get to the playroom, you are done.  Ignore level resets.  All advancement is now through quests.  This is all documented somewhere in these forums.

[Lupine00]

I finished Sex Slaves and the dominant Andrew line, and I also did Volkar too...

 

Here is my review of the classic "does it all" player and NPC slavery mod.

 

 

Sex Slaves  6.2 for LE is a big mod, and there's a lot of great stuff to play with here.

You get the Mia's Lair quest scenario, a large player dwelling with some odd residents, you get the main "sex slaves" functionality where you can train slaves to fight and fuck for you, and you also get a follower called Andrew the Bulwark, who is a male follower who isn't too much of a pretty-boy. Andrew is normally another slave, but you can toggle him into dominant mode, and then you are the slave.

 

It's pretty old now, and though the front page has not been updated to say so, fishburger has made clear in the forums that there is no realistic chance of any updates at this point. Definitely not for LE, and the SE version probably doesn't have much of a chance either; I'm not sure.

 

The main Mia's Layer scenario is entertaining enough, but is clearly aimed at a male player and character. It matches up with the Sex Slaves portion of the mod.

You can play it with a female character, but some bits feel a bit awkward.

 

There is extensive and comprehensive recorded dialog. It's not just text like most LL mods, but there are two sides to this. You will definitely notice it, and it brings some parts of the mod much more alive than they otherwise might be. On the downside it means that oft-repeated lines can become grating. The effort to create all the dialog certainly has to be admired, but the result is a little inconsistent.  Specifically, the voiced dialog is unevenly recorded. Some is loud and clear, other parts quiet and muffled. Some voices are well performed, others not so much. The first two NPCs you do much talking with are probably the sketchiest when it comes to dialog recordings, so at least things go up from there.

 

There are a few bugs, but no show-stoppers. Any experienced Skyrim player can still finish the quest.  In particular, at any point that your controls are disabled, there is only a slim chance they will ever re-enable without resorting to Zaz debug menu.  Sometimes the mod seems to run scenes at inappropriate times, and though I asked the NPCs to clean up the house, they never did get rid of the corpses.

 

 

The sex slave training mini-game probably takes far too long for most players, and becomes something of a grind. For those who like to do a lot of whipping and dominant sex scenes, there is a great deal of (somewhat repetitive) content here.

 

 

I spent most of my time in this mod with the dominant version of Andrew.

 

Andrew is not a bad follower, but he likes sex a bit too much to be practical. The frequency of sex is very high and starts to slow down you play to an intrusive extent.

He demands sex often, demands you offer it often (if you want to advance), and jumps on you at any point he notices your arousal is high.

If you want to progress the quest, you have to offer a lot of sex. The end result is an awful lot of sex. Even by Slaverun standards, there is a lot of sex.

When I finished up with Andrew, it felt so quiet and peaceful due to the lack of frequent sex, and absence of multiple back-to-back sex scenes.

 

Another minor weakness is that as a character, dominant Andrew isn't very likeable. Apparently, the PC is supposed to like him - adore him even -  but I'm not sure the average player is going to like him much. Fishburger seems to imply that dominant Andrew is designed only for female players, and male players wouldn't like him. I don't know if that's true. My guess is that nobody is going to like him. The question you have to ask is "what's the point of him?" He's not romantic, and you can't aspire to winning his affection because he can't even distinguish between affection and forced anal. Some understanding of the romance genre would have helped here.

 

The goal of the dominant Andrew quest is to make him "love" you. This involves sex at first, then a combination of giving him food and drink he likes, and doing his little mini loot-quests.

Later, he is all about the quests. You have to obtain various items, and they are well themed. The quests are definitely a good bit, and I enjoyed them.

There are some hiccups. Edits to the world are often a bit dodgy. I couldn't finish two quests without using tcl to get through bad geometry. Also, the mod likes to disable the controls and force walk you around, trying to be cinematic or something. Almost every time my controls were disabled they did not re-enable properly.

 

Despite this, the quests aren't broken in any serious way that you can't kludge around, and most of the time work very well.

 

The problem with the main quest goal is that there is a lack of motivation for the PC. The player does the necessary things because it's the only way to progress, but it's not obvious why the PC would. It can't be because she's a submissive, because you have to become submissive as you progress (or at least realise you are), so you can't possibly start as one. And it's not because Andrew is so charismatic that she wouldn't say no to him. He's not really charismatic. He's big on objectification. Later mods do this too, but with more humour to it. Slaverun, despite its sometimes gibberish dialog, is far funnier most of the time. Sex Slaves takes itself a bit seriously, but doesn't quite pull it off.

 

The mod should probably have used the "Fifty Shades" rationale and made the PC want to "heal" Andrew of his mental damage and inability to have any real intimacy with a woman. He flips back and forth between compliments, oddly patronising encouragement, and brutal misogyny, which fits with that kind of damaged, intimacy averse personality. He has the right background for it too, having been abused since his childhood, though he knows no better and thinks it's great that he's a borderline sociopath and that his lonely, soulless way of life is wonderful. Put another way, life in Mia's Lair has sent him somewhat crazy. That's fine, the problem is that you don't set out to fix this and fail, instead going crazy yourself, no ... instead you set out to enable and encourage it.

 

There are other story-telling weak spots too. We have to rescue and help characters in peril we don't really care about. If we'd been introduced to them earlier and built up some kind of connection before we see them victimised, it would be possible to care. As it is, we aren't, and it isn't.

 

Some other female characters are introduced, apparently as competition, but they aren't developed. This is a great pity. It could have been fantastic. It feels like there should have been more of a battle for Andrew's affections, but there's none. You just win because you're the PC, and not for any other reason, and when you lose it's not because of a choice the player makes, it just happens because the plot says so. The losses are inconsequential of course.

 

I don't think that Fishburger gets what people enjoy in player slavery very well, though, to be fair, he was writing when the player slavery mod genre was in its infancy and did much to form it. He doesn't get what DF later understood so well. It's about the journey, not the destination; about failed resistance, not willing capitulation; and more than anything, its about the slippery slope of a trap that you struggle to escape, but where losing is seductively alluring - that's the trap. He certainly doesn't get what makes a lead male character romantic and compelling, and he doesn't quite get what makes a dominant that is fun to be dominated by. Sometimes he nails it, but more often not. There are good parts, but not often enough.

 

To explain this a bit more:

A female lead who puts herself at risk in the belief she can win, to save another person who is worthy of saving, is actually romantic. There's no mod like this.

A female lead who sacrifices herself for an idiot whose best qualities are possessiveness and libido, is not romantic. This is where Sex Slaves ends up.

A female lead who sacrifices herself for an idiot we don't even know, just feels cheap and contrived. This is where Slaverun ends up.

 

Another feature of Sex Slaves that irked me was the bit where there's a contrived capture and you have to be rescued by Andrew. Right... After I've been rendered ineffectual and helpless, then he can love me? Really? That's it? That was not cool. It would have been better if the entire theme was that you were helpless and useless without Andrew, but it seems like the opposite up to that point. It wasn't helped when that scene bugged, and Andrew's weapon vanished, making it impossible for him to actually complete the rescue. In a touch of absurd irony, I had to restore my controls via debug and kill the mobs myself so the scene could finally progress.

 

 

Despite some flaws, there is quite a lot that Andrew does well, with multiple quests, a lot of dialog, and some nice scenes.

It's a huge achievement, a big piece of content, and many aspects are well made.

There are hours of play in this, and some of them are good. Others are grind.

As RPGs go more generally the grind ratio isn't so bad compared to the average game quest, but in Sex Slaves the oddity is that the grind consists of sex scenes. You may like this. I hope you have a huge library of sex animations to watch. You will need them. In this respect it's similar to Slaverun, or perhaps the reverse would be a better way to put it.

 

 

There are also devices, of a sort, but they do not "work". They are not DD devices, and do not interact properly with any other mod or framework. There's a chastity belt that you can't remove, but it's that old Zaz item with the animating plugs. It doesn't look so great, and everyone will still rape you, and you'll still get orgasms. There's a piercing that has similar issues, and there's a collar that doesn't go in the collar slot, and has no keywords, so no DD oriented mod will recognise it as a collar.

 

SS shows its age in this. It had to build everything from scratch, and so things work in quirky ways that (almost) nobody uses now. The visual assets look quite dated too. I guess one person is still making mods like this, but let's not get into that.

 

A small patch to make this use DD items in the correct slots would be quite beneficial, and probably not much effort to create, but I'm not sure there are enough dominant Andrew enthusiasts to justify it.

 

 

When this mod ends, you are - despite what the front page suggests - stuck with Andrew, no matter what you say to him. There's a dialog option to adventure by yourself, but it simply doesn't work, and Andrew follows anyway.

You can dismiss him  as a follower, but he puts a chastity belt on you out of spite.

Unless you go back to Andrew and grovel, retaining him as a follower, there's no in-game way out of the belt. This is a pain in the ass.

Eventually, after completing his content, I dismissed him, dealt with his rage, then removed the belt via console and moved on.

 

He is too intrusive to keep as a follower long-term. By the time you finish his story you will be more than ready to get rid of him. He doesn't unlock any significantly new capability at the end, so there's nothing to keep your interest at that point.

 

Volkar is a daedra who trains sex slaves, and explains to you how to train them.

 

Volkar is a bit more coherent as a character. He lies to you, and if you let him, he will trick you into slavery, and that's fine. It makes perfect sense.

His kind of slavery is quite intrusive but in some ways less so than Andrew.

Volkar is the inspiration for DF's "weird potion" feature. What was disappointing about the events with him was that best stuff all seems to happen off camera and you don't see it. You "sign" a contract in a blackout. Is it a scam? I won't spoiler too much. A certain other modder has since revisited events like this, but added more detail, and showed everything, including some massive orgies. SS has a zillion times less bugs than that mod though.

 

 

If you have other slavery mods in your game, like DF or SD+, you probably don't want to get involved with Volkar.

While Andrew needs to be exempted from DF, as a devious Andrew would probably be a bit of a mess, Volkar's intrusions are not easy to turn on or off, and aren't very compatible with any other mods. There is no easy way to make Volkar friendly to other mods, and he directly contradicts and conflicts with SD+.

 

 

Like Maria Eden, Sex Slaves comes from an era when DD mods weren't the norm for player slavery and when there were no established ways for mods to interact with each other and create synergy. It feels similar in its standalone/incompatible nature.

 

SS takes a more narrative path than SD+ slavery, and dominant Andrew is a worthwhile experience to play through, but it does drag somewhat once you pass the mid-point. But what spoils the mod, and Andrew, the most, is the lack of a future...

 

To sum up, Sex Slaves is good in many ways, and has a lot of features and functionality, but it's not particularly compatible functionality.

 

Sadly, the biggest flaw in Sex Slaves is that it's abandoned, and has been abandoned for years. This doesn't just manifest in its archaic - now quirky - mechanics.

 

 

When you start the mod, you know from the start that the whole experience with Andrew leads nowhere and ends in an unfulfilled promise. It's the knowledge that it won't ever be more than that, and can't ever be more than that which robs it of energy. The closer you get to the end, the more you feel that it is the end.

 

Nothing that's weak can be fixed, and that nothing that's great can ever be expanded on.

That knowledge kills any sense of excitement when experiencing Sex Slaves.

You cannot anticipate or dream what it might become in a few months or years of work because ... it won't ... it's dead, preserved for your pleasure, but still dead ... and designed with a particular end that you play to, and then stop because there's nowhere else to go.

 

 

Once you've had the experience, you step away from it because it's finite - finished as it is - and will never be more.

Any kind of "relationship" you build with Andrew can go nowhere once the planned story reaches its end.

Any kind of enslavement to Volkar will only be what is already written.

 

It's that knowledge of the limits and the ending that renders Sex Slaves a mod you won't keep in your LO after completing the story - unless you really like the grind of training the slaves.

 

It's a pity, because it feels like it could still move forward, but that's a delusion. It's done.

Good or great as some parts are, it can never get better, it can only slowly decay as running it becomes increasingly inconvenient and incompatible with the new "must have" mods of the moment.

[Lupine00]

One thing that I thing could be done to extend Sex Slaves and give it a "proper" ending, is to patch it together with Pet Project.

 

e.g.

 

You marry Andrew, triggering Pet Project, and he belts you and then plays around as he gradually renders you a perma-chaste cock-sucking cum-dumpster...

 

...which fits pretty well with what he's done to you so far, but Pet Project is an "endless" style mod that just adds some spice, rather than turning your game upside down.

 

This would require a few changes here and there. Andrew would need to alter his SS dialog as things progress, and some PP dialog would need tweaks to sound like Andrew.

Existing characters from Sex Slaves could be plugged into Pet Project scenes very easily, and the Lodge set up to work as a PP player house.

 

Obviously, the various devices would need patching to be DD friendly, and the PP belt patching so Andrew can take it on and off.

He might be set up to start only using the belt as a punishment, but progress to more chastity from there.

Adding the different plugs and toys from SS into PP would be beautiful.

 

PP has a great code system for games and scenarios, and unique-to-Andrew stuff could be added without huge pain.

PP could actually make furniture work in the play room. You'd probably want to add a few more pieces.

 

 

What turns me off this, is the idea of playing through SSdA to get to this point in another game with the patched mods in. I don't think I have the energy. Still, it's such a natural fusion; it would be great to see.

[xesfer]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

A certain other modder has since revisited events like this, but added more detail, and showed everything

Please, can you tell me what is the name of that mod? Thx

[fishburger67]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I finished Sex Slaves and the dominant Andrew line, and I also did Volkar too...

 

Here is my review of the classic "does it all" player and NPC slavery mod.

 

 

Sex Slaves  6.2 for LE is a big mod, and there's a lot of great stuff to play with here.

You get the Mia's Lair quest scenario, a large player dwelling with some odd residents, you get the main "sex slaves" functionality where you can train slaves to fight and fuck for you, and you also get a follower called Andrew the Bulwark, who is a male follower who isn't too much of a pretty-boy. Andrew is normally another slave, but you can toggle him into dominant mode, and then you are the slave.

 

It's pretty old now, and though the front page has not been updated to say so, fishburger has made clear in the forums that there is no realistic chance of any updates at this point. Definitely not for LE, and the SE version probably doesn't have much of a chance either; I'm not sure.

 

The main Mia's Layer scenario is entertaining enough, but is clearly aimed at a male player and character. It matches up with the Sex Slaves portion of the mod.

You can play it with a female character, but some bits feel a bit awkward.

 

There is extensive and comprehensive recorded dialog. It's not just text like most LL mods, but there are two sides to this. You will definitely notice it, and it brings some parts of the mod much more alive than they otherwise might be. On the downside it means that oft-repeated lines can become grating. The effort to create all the dialog certainly has to be admired, but the result is a little inconsistent.  Specifically, the voiced dialog is unevenly recorded. Some is loud and clear, other parts quiet and muffled. Some voices are well performed, others not so much. The first two NPCs you do much talking with are probably the sketchiest when it comes to dialog recordings, so at least things go up from there.

 

There are a few bugs, but no show-stoppers. Any experienced Skyrim player can still finish the quest.  In particular, at any point that your controls are disabled, there is only a slim chance they will ever re-enable without resorting to Zaz debug menu.  Sometimes the mod seems to run scenes at inappropriate times, and though I asked the NPCs to clean up the house, they never did get rid of the corpses.

 

 

The sex slave training mini-game probably takes far too long for most players, and becomes something of a grind. For those who like to do a lot of whipping and dominant sex scenes, there is a great deal of (somewhat repetitive) content here.

 

 

I spent most of my time in this mod with the dominant version of Andrew.

 

Andrew is not a bad follower, but he likes sex a bit too much to be practical. The frequency of sex is very high and starts to slow down you play to an intrusive extent.

He demands sex often, demands you offer it often (if you want to advance), and jumps on you at any point he notices your arousal is high.

If you want to progress the quest, you have to offer a lot of sex. The end result is an awful lot of sex. Even by Slaverun standards, there is a lot of sex.

When I finished up with Andrew, it felt so quiet and peaceful due to the lack of frequent sex, and absence of multiple back-to-back sex scenes.

 

Another minor weakness is that as a character, dominant Andrew isn't very likeable. Apparently, the PC is supposed to like him - adore him even -  but I'm not sure the average player is going to like him much. Fishburger seems to imply that dominant Andrew is designed only for female players, and male players wouldn't like him. I don't know if that's true. My guess is that nobody is going to like him. The question you have to ask is "what's the point of him?" He's not romantic, and you can't aspire to winning his affection because he can't even distinguish between affection and forced anal. Some understanding of the romance genre would have helped here.

 

The goal of the dominant Andrew quest is to make him "love" you. This involves sex at first, then a combination of giving him food and drink he likes, and doing his little mini loot-quests.

Later, he is all about the quests. You have to obtain various items, and they are well themed. The quests are definitely a good bit, and I enjoyed them.

There are some hiccups. Edits to the world are often a bit dodgy. I couldn't finish two quests without using tcl to get through bad geometry. Also, the mod likes to disable the controls and force walk you around, trying to be cinematic or something. Almost every time my controls were disabled they did not re-enable properly.

 

Despite this, the quests aren't broken in any serious way that you can't kludge around, and most of the time work very well.

 

The problem with the main quest goal is that there is a lack of motivation for the PC. The player does the necessary things because it's the only way to progress, but it's not obvious why the PC would. It can't be because she's a submissive, because you have to become submissive as you progress (or at least realise you are), so you can't possibly start as one. And it's not because Andrew is so charismatic that she wouldn't say no to him. He's not really charismatic. He's big on objectification. Later mods do this too, but with more humour to it. Slaverun, despite its sometimes gibberish dialog, is far funnier most of the time. Sex Slaves takes itself a bit seriously, but doesn't quite pull it off.

 

The mod should probably have used the "Fifty Shades" rationale and made the PC want to "heal" Andrew of his mental damage and inability to have any real intimacy with a woman. He flips back and forth between compliments, oddly patronising encouragement, and brutal misogyny, which fits with that kind of damaged, intimacy averse personality. He has the right background for it too, having been abused since his childhood, though he knows no better and thinks it's great that he's a borderline sociopath and that his lonely, soulless way of life is wonderful. Put another way, life in Mia's Lair has sent him somewhat crazy. That's fine, the problem is that you don't set out to fix this and fail, instead going crazy yourself, no ... instead you set out to enable and encourage it.

 

There are other story-telling weak spots too. We have to rescue and help characters in peril we don't really care about. If we'd been introduced to them earlier and built up some kind of connection before we see them victimised, it would be possible to care. As it is, we aren't, and it isn't.

 

Some other female characters are introduced, apparently as competition, but they aren't developed. This is a great pity. It could have been fantastic. It feels like there should have been more of a battle for Andrew's affections, but there's none. You just win because you're the PC, and not for any other reason, and when you lose it's not because of a choice the player makes, it just happens because the plot says so. The losses are inconsequential of course.

 

I don't think that Fishburger gets what people enjoy in player slavery very well, though, to be fair, he was writing when the player slavery mod genre was in its infancy and did much to form it. He doesn't get what DF later understood so well. It's about the journey, not the destination; about failed resistance, not willing capitulation; and more than anything, its about the slippery slope of a trap that you struggle to escape, but where losing is seductively alluring - that's the trap. He certainly doesn't get what makes a lead male character romantic and compelling, and he doesn't quite get what makes a dominant that is fun to be dominated by. Sometimes he nails it, but more often not. There are good parts, but not often enough.

 

To explain this a bit more:

A female lead who puts herself at risk in the belief she can win, to save another person who is worthy of saving, is actually romantic. There's no mod like this.

A female lead who sacrifices herself for an idiot whose best qualities are possessiveness and libido, is not romantic. This is where Sex Slaves ends up.

A female lead who sacrifices herself for an idiot we don't even know, just feels cheap and contrived. This is where Slaverun ends up.

 

Another feature of Sex Slaves that irked me was the bit where there's a contrived capture and you have to be rescued by Andrew. Right... After I've been rendered ineffectual and helpless, then he can love me? Really? That's it? That was not cool. It would have been better if the entire theme was that you were helpless and useless without Andrew, but it seems like the opposite up to that point. It wasn't helped when that scene bugged, and Andrew's weapon vanished, making it impossible for him to actually complete the rescue. In a touch of absurd irony, I had to restore my controls via debug and kill the mobs myself so the scene could finally progress.

 

 

Despite some flaws, there is quite a lot that Andrew does well, with multiple quests, a lot of dialog, and some nice scenes.

It's a huge achievement, a big piece of content, and many aspects are well made.

There are hours of play in this, and some of them are good. Others are grind.

As RPGs go more generally the grind ratio isn't so bad compared to the average game quest, but in Sex Slaves the oddity is that the grind consists of sex scenes. You may like this. I hope you have a huge library of sex animations to watch. You will need them. In this respect it's similar to Slaverun, or perhaps the reverse would be a better way to put it.

 

 

There are also devices, of a sort, but they do not "work". They are not DD devices, and do not interact properly with any other mod or framework. There's a chastity belt that you can't remove, but it's that old Zaz item with the animating plugs. It doesn't look so great, and everyone will still rape you, and you'll still get orgasms. There's a piercing that has similar issues, and there's a collar that doesn't go in the collar slot, and has no keywords, so no DD oriented mod will recognise it as a collar.

 

SS shows its age in this. It had to build everything from scratch, and so things work in quirky ways that (almost) nobody uses now. The visual assets look quite dated too. I guess one person is still making mods like this, but let's not get into that.

 

A small patch to make this use DD items in the correct slots would be quite beneficial, and probably not much effort to create, but I'm not sure there are enough dominant Andrew enthusiasts to justify it.

 

 

When this mod ends, you are - despite what the front page suggests - stuck with Andrew, no matter what you say to him. There's a dialog option to adventure by yourself, but it simply doesn't work, and Andrew follows anyway.

You can dismiss him  as a follower, but he puts a chastity belt on you out of spite.

Unless you go back to Andrew and grovel, retaining him as a follower, there's no in-game way out of the belt. This is a pain in the ass.

Eventually, after completing his content, I dismissed him, dealt with his rage, then removed the belt via console and moved on.

 

He is too intrusive to keep as a follower long-term. By the time you finish his story you will be more than ready to get rid of him. He doesn't unlock any significantly new capability at the end, so there's nothing to keep your interest at that point.

 

Volkar is a daedra who trains sex slaves, and explains to you how to train them.

 

Volkar is a bit more coherent as a character. He lies to you, and if you let him, he will trick you into slavery, and that's fine. It makes perfect sense.

His kind of slavery is quite intrusive but in some ways less so than Andrew.

Volkar is the inspiration for DF's "weird potion" feature. What was disappointing about the events with him was that best stuff all seems to happen off camera and you don't see it. You "sign" a contract in a blackout. Is it a scam? I won't spoiler too much. A certain other modder has since revisited events like this, but added more detail, and showed everything, including some massive orgies. SS has a zillion times less bugs than that mod though.

 

 

If you have other slavery mods in your game, like DF or SD+, you probably don't want to get involved with Volkar.

While Andrew needs to be exempted from DF, as a devious Andrew would probably be a bit of a mess, Volkar's intrusions are not easy to turn on or off, and aren't very compatible with any other mods. There is no easy way to make Volkar friendly to other mods, and he directly contradicts and conflicts with SD+.

 

 

Like Maria Eden, Sex Slaves comes from an era when DD mods weren't the norm for player slavery and when there were no established ways for mods to interact with each other and create synergy. It feels similar in its standalone/incompatible nature.

 

SS takes a more narrative path than SD+ slavery, and dominant Andrew is a worthwhile experience to play through, but it does drag somewhat once you pass the mid-point. But what spoils the mod, and Andrew, the most, is the lack of a future...

 

To sum up, Sex Slaves is good in many ways, and has a lot of features and functionality, but it's not particularly compatible functionality.

 

Sadly, the biggest flaw in Sex Slaves is that it's abandoned, and has been abandoned for years. This doesn't just manifest in its archaic - now quirky - mechanics.

 

 

When you start the mod, you know from the start that the whole experience with Andrew leads nowhere and ends in an unfulfilled promise. It's the knowledge that it won't ever be more than that, and can't ever be more than that which robs it of energy. The closer you get to the end, the more you feel that it is the end.

 

Nothing that's weak can be fixed, and that nothing that's great can ever be expanded on.

That knowledge kills any sense of excitement when experiencing Sex Slaves.

You cannot anticipate or dream what it might become in a few months or years of work because ... it won't ... it's dead, preserved for your pleasure, but still dead ... and designed with a particular end that you play to, and then stop because there's nowhere else to go.

 

 

Once you've had the experience, you step away from it because it's finite - finished as it is - and will never be more.

Any kind of "relationship" you build with Andrew can go nowhere once the planned story reaches its end.

Any kind of enslavement to Volkar will only be what is already written.

 

It's that knowledge of the limits and the ending that renders Sex Slaves a mod you won't keep in your LO after completing the story - unless you really like the grind of training the slaves.

 

It's a pity, because it feels like it could still move forward, but that's a delusion. It's done.

Good or great as some parts are, it can never get better, it can only slowly decay as running it becomes increasingly inconvenient and incompatible with the new "must have" mods of the moment.

Thank you very much for the very thoughtful critique. 

 

As you know, my time is currently limited and I don't have much interest in Skyrim ATM.  After all, I, like most modders make these mods for our own use and then share them.  As you pointed out, I personally have no interest in real slavery, and also as you pointed out, probably because I don't really understand the attraction of this bondage thing.  I have had several in-depth conversations with people who do and I still don't "get it".

 

The other big issue is that the voice actors responsible for the main characters are gone and with one exception, unavailable, so adding to this gets even more difficult.

 

I have learned a LOT doing this, and if I were to ever get back into it, I would want to start from mostly scratch, and that's two years of part time work, believe it or not.

 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, fishburger67 said:

I have learned a LOT doing this, and if I were to ever get back into it, I would want to start from mostly scratch, and that's two years of part time work, believe it or not.

Two years sounds quick for what's there.

 

That's the sad thing with a bunch of these big mods. They take so long to make, and then reach a size where maintaining them is almost impossibly time-consuming.

 

The only super-monolith mod that's still being developed is DCL, which I'd argue should have been split up years ago. The random bondage, rape, and defeat parts of it have almost nothing to do with the quests and story content apart from leveraging a few shared wrapper functions for DD - that arguably should be in a utilities pack in DD and not in DCL at all.

 

I'd guess that one lesson learned is that making some smaller mods that can stand alone, but which have loose bindings to each other, does involve a bit of overhead in terms of working on multiple ESPs and performing multiple releases, but has worthwhile long term benefits. Later, you can focus down on the mod you really want to advance. You don't have to worry about the others. You know what players are interested in. You know what parts worked best, and you can develop just those mods further, or make a new mod to fill that space without touching or breaking all the others. If you make a poor technical decision in one mod, it probably won't contaminate all the others, so it will be a lot easier to fix without having to rewrite everything everywhere.

 

 

I think the approach of patching in Pet Project as an expansion for dominant Andrew would work well, for a modest effort, but as I said, who is the consumer for that? I probably wouldn't play through Andrew again just to get to it, so that probably leaves a target audience of zero  The only way it would be viable is if there was more new content, and that's a different proposition in terms of work.

 

 

I believe I understand that SS took a huge amount of time and effort to make, and now it's as done as it's ever going to be. It's not going to be enhanced, or even maintained. I guess the question here is whether there is enough interest in it for an enthusiast (definitely not me in this case) to make patches for it to give it new currency, as has happened with many other mods of similar vintage?

 

And if there is interest, what parts would get the love? Probably not dominant Andrew. I'm guessing that most players are more interested in the slave training part, or Volkar - for widely different reasons. In the former space we have PaH, and in the latter SD+ and DF ... and to a lesser extent, the Dollmaker. Is there much point making an alternative to those mods unless its significantly different? Probably not. The existing SS audience, in most cases, probably only like their own favourite parts of it. There will be a minority that play both the sub and dom parts of it, but still a minority.

 

As for new users, the spread of features means users that might (or should) have installed it don't, because they don't know that it has things they will like. Its broad feature base works against it, and a prospective user will likely struggle to figure out what the mod can do for them.

 

To finish up...

 

 

I can't say it "loud" enough though, thank you Fishburger for making this great mod.

 

It's a piece of Skyrim history, and enormously influential.

 

If I hadn't played through it, I wouldn't have realised the extent to which it has influenced subsequent mods. Devious Followers clearly owes a huge debt to dominant Andrew, both in the broad concept and in some specific details. I think DF's debt mechanics fell out of forum discussions, but the rest is very SS inspired. I suspect Slaverun Reloaded was influenced too, but these things aren't easily quantified. Whether or not Delzaron was inspired by it, I

[fishburger67]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Two years sounds quick for what's there.

 

That's the sad thing with a bunch of these big mods. They take so long to make, and then reach a size where maintaining them is almost impossibly time-consuming.

 

The only super-monolith mod that's still being developed is DCL, which I'd argue should have been split up years ago. The random bondage, rape, and defeat parts of it have almost nothing to do with the quests and story content apart from leveraging a few shared wrapper functions for DD - that arguably should be in a utilities pack in DD and not in DCL at all.

 

I'd guess that one lesson learned is that making some smaller mods that can stand alone, but which have loose bindings to each other, does involve a bit of overhead in terms of working on multiple ESPs and performing multiple releases, but has worthwhile long term benefits. Later, you can focus down on the mod you really want to advance. You don't have to worry about the others. You know what players are interested in. You know what parts worked best, and you can develop just those mods further, or make a new mod to fill that space without touching or breaking all the others. If you make a poor technical decision in one mod, it probably won't contaminate all the others, so it will be a lot easier to fix without having to rewrite everything everywhere.

 

 

I think the approach of patching in Pet Project as an expansion for dominant Andrew would work well, for a modest effort, but as I said, who is the consumer for that? I probably wouldn't play through Andrew again just to get to it, so that probably leaves a target audience of zero  The only way it would be viable is if there was more new content, and that's a different proposition in terms of work.

 

 

I believe I understand that SS took a huge amount of time and effort to make, and now it's as done as it's ever going to be. It's not going to be enhanced, or even maintained. I guess the question here is whether there is enough interest in it for an enthusiast (definitely not me in this case) to make patches for it to give it new currency, as has happened with many other mods of similar vintage?

 

And if there is interest, what parts would get the love? Probably not dominant Andrew. I'm guessing that most players are more interested in the slave training part, or Volkar - for widely different reasons. In the former space we have PaH, and in the latter SD+ and DF ... and to a lesser extent, the Dollmaker. Is there much point making an alternative to those mods unless its significantly different? Probably not. The existing SS audience, in most cases, probably only like their own favourite parts of it. There will be a minority that play both the sub and dom parts of it, but still a minority.

 

As for new users, the spread of features means users that might (or should) have installed it don't, because they don't know that it has things they will like. Its broad feature base works against it, and a prospective user will likely struggle to figure out what the mod can do for them.

 

To finish up...

 

 

I can't say it "loud" enough though, thank you Fishburger for making this great mod.

 

It's a piece of Skyrim history, and enormously influential.

 

If I hadn't played through it, I wouldn't have realised the extent to which it has influenced subsequent mods. Devious Followers clearly owes a huge debt to dominant Andrew, both in the broad concept and in some specific details. I think DF's debt mechanics fell out of forum discussions, but the rest is very SS inspired. I suspect Slaverun Reloaded was influenced too, but these things aren't easily quantified. Whether or not Delzaron was inspired by it, I

As I said, I make these mods for myself and personally don't give a shit about the slave and bondage part.   What I like are the followers.  Interesting and fun to have along with you for the long haul.  I have played hundreds of hours with Sasha and Jenny and refuse to play without them.  They are, in my opinion the best female followers around if you take them both and your playing a male PC.  That is where my interest lies, but if I could do it over, I'd load up of funny stuff and trim down the sex verbalizations.

[Lupine00]

27 minutes ago, fishburger67 said:

As I said, I make these mods for myself and personally don't give a shit about the slave and bondage part. 

So how did so much of that end up in Sex Slaves?

 

You do advertise Sasha and Jenny quite hard on the front page, but it's in the "middle" of a very long explanation.

 

I guess this is an example of how partitioning smaller would have left you able to continue the follower part alone, with slave training, or dominant Andrew, or Volkar in different mods.

 

 

When I played the initial Lair scenario, I didn't clearly distinguish between Sasha, Jenny, and Mia as potential followers.

You have to train Mia of course, and the other two will just follow, but that distinction wasn't so obvious at the time, as there was a lot going on.

My focus was Andrew, so I didn't take any of them on, though I didn't kill Mia.

When you return to the Lair, there are other characters there too. It's not transparent what is the best path.

With so many names and corpses flying around, it's a lot to keep track of when it all arrives so fast.

After listening to hours of Andrew's chatter, I'm better aware of who is who.

 

Do Jenny/Sasha function much the same for a female PC? Or does it seem a bit weird?