What really pisses you off? please no posts about nexus lol

[AKM]

20 hours ago, Darkpig said:

That is by far the worst thing to put up on your property. You think those dumbasses can read? Even if they could read do you think they would care? Better idea. Wall of no trespassing signs. No wait that's stupid like something a politician would think up.

 

What could help? Boiling oil? Murder holes? Boulders?

 

How about a hedge? There is no such thing as a perfect barrier but this one at least looks natural.

First thing that came to mind was essentially spike strips without the strips. Just little pyramids, except the three base corners and peak are spikes.  Puncture tires but good, just don't step on one!

[Darkpig]

4 hours ago, AKM said:

First thing that came to mind was essentially spike strips without the strips. Just little pyramids, except the three base corners and peak are spikes.  Puncture tires but good, just don't step on one!

Those things are nasty. Read that 5 officers died deploying one of those things during the year 2011. Don't know how they died though. Probably tripped and fell face first into them or bled out.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_strip

[AKM]

6 hours ago, Darkpig said:

Those things are nasty. Read that 5 officers died deploying one of those things during the year 2011. Don't know how they died though. Probably tripped and fell face first into them or bled out.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_strip

Nasty effective, yes, but also very, very, dangerous for the person deploying them.  Really, who thought standing on the side of the road waiting to throw something in front of a speeding vehicle was a safe thing to do?  I've seen plenty of footage of speeding car swerving to intentionally hit police officer, and, even stupider, idiot police officer intentionally standing IN THE ROAD, and then shocked when speeding car doesn't stop, and opening fire on speeding car because "vehicle operator was endangering my life!".  No, moron, YOU were endangering your life by standing in the roadway in front of speeding vehicle!  Too many police get a hard on for 'obey my authorita!', and don't take physics into account.  Just like the morons who think a marked crosswalk means they can cross the street whenever, head down in their phone, and never once look to see if those 2000+ pound hunks of metal flying by are going stop or not.  "Oh, I'll just sue them."  Yeah, and your quality of life may well go through the floor, too, you idiot!

Sigh again.

[Darkpig]

21 hours ago, AKM said:

Nasty effective, yes, but also very, very, dangerous for the person deploying them.  Really, who thought standing on the side of the road waiting to throw something in front of a speeding vehicle was a safe thing to do?  I've seen plenty of footage of speeding car swerving to intentionally hit police officer, and, even stupider, idiot police officer intentionally standing IN THE ROAD, and then shocked when speeding car doesn't stop, and opening fire on speeding car because "vehicle operator was endangering my life!".  No, moron, YOU were endangering your life by standing in the roadway in front of speeding vehicle!  Too many police get a hard on for 'obey my authorita!', and don't take physics into account.  Just like the morons who think a marked crosswalk means they can cross the street whenever, head down in their phone, and never once look to see if those 2000+ pound hunks of metal flying by are going stop or not.  "Oh, I'll just sue them."  Yeah, and your quality of life may well go through the floor, too, you idiot!

Sigh again.

I eventually read the link the wiki cited and it was in fact speeding cars that killed those cops. I heard too many stories of people getting impaled on rebar so I assumed it was the spikes themselves. Honest mistake.

 

Getting killed by a speeding car makes sense. Even caltrops take some preparation to work and they're well caltrops. Honestly though. Even a cop should understand that a speeding 2 ton car outranks every living authority out there. Your magic hand does not work in this situation sorry.

[AKM]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:42 AM, Darkpig said:

the wiki cited and it was in fact speeding cars that killed those cops.

Warning: "Graphic".  Here's an example thereof.  What happens is the driver sees the deployment and swerves to avoid, hitting whatever else is around.
 

Spoiler

 

This is one where the vehicle got hit, while the officer managed to get out of the way.  Note the spike strips on BOTH sides of the road, as well as the violence of the impact.  A human wouldn't have survived that if not properly restrained.:
 

 

 

[gregathit]

5 minutes ago, AKM said:

Warning "Graphic".  Here's an example thereof.  What happens is the driver sees the deployment and swerves to avoid, hitting whatever else is around.

That video makes me ill.  It is a perfect example of the piss poor training that police and other first responders get and why we need MORE money for them and not less.  Most likely that poor guy will never walk again.  If he does, it won't be a normal walk.  This is what Americans should be protesting, that we are asking way too much from folks that are not trained sufficiently.  These are mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters who are working for a piss salary to serve the general public.  A public that largely mocks and disrespects them.  None of this is new unfortunately.  Yet despite all of that horrible treatment, those same people, without a moments hesitation, charge into danger to rescue people.  We should all be ashamed.

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

That video makes me ill.  It is a perfect example of the piss poor training that police and other first responders get and why we need MORE money for them and not less.  Most likely that poor guy will never walk again.  If he does, it won't be a normal walk.  This is what Americans should be protesting, that we are asking way too much from folks that are not trained sufficiently.  These are mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters who are working for a piss salary to serve the general public.  A public that largely mocks and disrespects them.  None of this is new unfortunately.  Yet despite all of that horrible treatment, those same people, without a moments hesitation, charge into danger to rescue people.  We should all be ashamed.

Ashamed of what? Police work is hazardous work. Nothing more nothing less. And like the public school system I don't know if throwing money at it is the best solution. It is a good motivator in this system that we use but it is ultimately people not money that makes for skilled work. You are right that they need better training and there is a need for funding there but it is up to the government and the police department to get their shit together. Also any extra cash the police department gets is coming out of your taxes, yours and pretty much everyone else's. People hate high taxes particularly the right. Yet they like military and police so that party needs to find its priorities. And as you can guess the left is not touching that subject with a ten foot stick. So where are we going to get the money from?

 

No matter what side you are on shit happens and like it or not some police get cocky even in dangerous situations like this one.

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

That video makes me ill.  It is a perfect example of the piss poor training that police and other first responders get and why we need MORE money for them and not less.  Most likely that poor guy will never walk again.  If he does, it won't be a normal walk.  This is what Americans should be protesting, that we are asking way too much from folks that are not trained sufficiently.  These are mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters who are working for a piss salary to serve the general public.  A public that largely mocks and disrespects them.  None of this is new unfortunately.  Yet despite all of that horrible treatment, those same people, without a moments hesitation, charge into danger to rescue people.  We should all be ashamed.

Many are have training and the training that they have, they often ignore.  Like the recent case where the cop shot through sliding doors without clear line of sight. They are trained to not do that, but he did anyway. 

 

Yes, they need more training, but lest be honest. They (many) aren't using their training that they did receive. This is a problem for public safety but also for personal safety (of the officer).  Poor adherence to proper procedures lead to the recent case mentioned above where a cop blindly shot into a residence.  Clearly against common sense and police policy. (Reason he was terminated and recently charged)  I am pretty sure that he was trained not to shoot blindly into a building.

 

Not only do they, the police need increased training, but they need a process where training is confirmed over time and that those policies and procedures are maintained properly throughout the career of the officer.

 

The video you were commenting on. Didn't have an  shelter,  (police car properly positioned, he properly positioned and preferably more than one car to funnel the car into the strips. (and not parked stupidly like you see in the movies... there is a reason cars blow through those, the scene is setup for that   no a slight angle to provide the police officer some shelter along side it if needed (for a shootout if the car , truck stops) and make it so much harder to blow through if someone tried to ram the cars.  Many videos that are shown where something goes bad related to police officers usually due to them not following basic procedures and policies.

[gregathit]

12 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Ashamed of what? Police work is hazardous work. Nothing more nothing less. And like the public school system I don't know if throwing money at it is the best solution. It is a good motivator in this system that we use but it is ultimately people not money that makes for skilled work. You are right that they need better training and there is a need for funding there but it is up to the government and the police department to get their shit together. Also any extra cash the police department gets is coming out of your taxes, yours and pretty much everyone else's. People hate high taxes particularly the right. Yet they like military and police so that party needs to find its priorities. And as you can guess the left is not touching that subject with a ten foot stick. So where are we going to get the money from?

 

No matter what side you are on shit happens and like it or not some police get cocky even in dangerous situations like this one.

Ashamed of what?  Holy cow!  We now have folks walking right up to police and shooting them in broad daylight.  This has been encouraged by pushing a false narrative that all police are bad and deserve to be killed.  This is despite the FACT that the VAST majority of police interactions are benign.  Yet when is the last time the media showed a positive police interaction or story.  Showing up for a kids lemonade stand who had been robbed:   https://www.kmov.com/news/two-illinois-boys-selling-lemonade-were-robbed-at-gunpoint-then-their-community-stepped-in-to/article_635dba38-6038-59af-a6ee-650c69a7a450.html

When nothing but negative comments are put out NONSTOP 24/7/365 it poisons the well of folks on a subconscious level.  This is horrible for our society.  If police fall apart, then it will be up to society to fill those shoes and that will lead to horrible casualties.  Look at how many deaths CHOP had.  Talk about silly.  Then you have soldiers coming in to try to restore order and that would mark the end of the US and the beginning of a dictatorship.

 

No, taxes need not go up, we could easily cut costs in other areas of the government for this.  Heck, since police are local level, it could be paid for with a few cents in sales taxes.  The other thing that MUST HAPPEN is DA's and judges need to put folks in prison.  New York is regularly releasing folks who assault others, then get arrrested and are released, rinse and repeat:  https://www.amny.com/police-fire/as-felonies-rise-nypd-blames-repeat-offenders-released-with-no-bail/  and https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/released-from-rikers-in-covid-measure-man-arrested-4-times-in-3-months/2460035/.  Hell, if we dismantled the post office we could save 80plus billion a year.  Cut the money that states are giving to colleges who are ripping off the students going there and damn sure not teaching them anything that will aid them in life.  I can't count the number of youtube videos of college kids who know absolutely nothing of the basic history of the US.  You know what they say about those who fail to heed the lessons of history right?  The money I'm talking about wouldn't go into the pockets of the individual person, instead it would go into ongoing training sessions and review of job performance.  There will be some that are cocky and even some that are bad apples, we need to find them and get them out of the uniform.  

 

As you said, this should not be a partisan issue.  Cops have traditionally in the past voted as a solid block as democrats for crying out loud.  That they have been vilified by that party is very sad.  This needs to stop.  They need our support and any help we can give to get rid of their bad apples and be empowered via training, support and equipped to be what we are wanting them to be.  They are a very, very, very thin blue line between utter chaos and orderly society.  Only an insane person would want to compromise that thin blue line.

[gregathit]

26 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Many are have training and the training that they have, they often ignore.  Like the recent case where the cop shot through sliding doors without clear line of sight. They are trained to not do that, but he did anyway. 

  This is exactly the type of BS that is being preached non-stop by the media and others that has poisoned the well.   Yes, it happens occasionally, but is NOT the norm.  The statistics simply don't back this narrative.  If it did, we would have thousands of cops behind bars and cities sued out of existence in civil court.

34 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Not only do they, the police need increased training, but they need a process where training is confirmed over time and that those policies and procedures are maintained properly throughout the career of the officer.

Exactly.  This is what I am talking about.  When someone is firing at you, you are not going to remember a policy and procedure manual that you read once or twice 2 to 3 years ago.  Hell, it is doubtful you'd remember it if you read it the day before.  Practice makes permanent.  Practice in how to properly respond to threats, in deescalating, and in hand to hand fighting.  And let's face it, a 90 lbs man or woman (or a person who is overweight) has NO BUSINESS being a street cop.  You'll just have to get used to being behind a desk.  If you make exceptions for those who are not up standards of hand to hand combat then their only recourse is to shoot folks.  

42 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

The video you were commenting on. Didn't have an  shelter,  (police car properly positioned, he properly positioned and preferably more than one car to funnel the car into the strips. (and not parked stupidly like you see in the movies... there is a reason cars blow through those, the scene is setup for that   no a slight angle to provide the police officer some shelter along side it if needed (for a shootout if the car , truck stops) and make it so much harder to blow through if someone tried to ram the cars.  Many videos that are shown where something goes bad related to police officers usually due to them not following basic procedures and policies.

Unless the cop is standing behind a solid concrete bridge embankment (or a freaking tank) there is no real safe deployment method for those spike strips.  Standing behind a police car isn't safe.   Hell, just play GTA for a few minutes and you can figure that one out. 

 

I have seen something that shows some promise:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850ZgmDO61U&feature=emb_logo

I've yet to see any police departments deploy it, so it may not have been as effective as they claimed.  Plus it would require a specialized vehicle.  Hopefully they can come up with something similar that be safe for all parties (yea, even the dumbass criminal) to end car chases.  While they are great fun to watch them happen from the house, it isn't all that wonderful for anyone close to them.

[GimmeBACON]

2 hours ago, Darkpig said:

Also any extra cash the police department gets is coming out of your taxes, yours and pretty much everyone else's. People hate high taxes particularly the right. Yet they like military and police so that party needs to find its priorities. And as you can guess the left is not touching that subject with a ten foot stick. So where are we going to get the money from?

The "right's" priorities are more or less where they should be, the governments duty is protection; both the protection of country, and individual liberty. The police are out there providing the service of enforcing our laws, and protecting the people... and while I don't agree with war profiteering or being "global peacekeepers", and would like to see that gone,  every country in the world has a military defense force to protect their people, and the money has to come from somewhere.

 

Also... the left is screeching like autistic retards to shut down our law and order, claiming that free speech and critical thinking is violence, making martyrs of violent criminals, and organizing mobs to attack local businesses in minority neighborhoods... all the while claiming they're helping minorities.

 

... but yeah, priorities. ?

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Ashamed of what?  Holy cow!  We now have folks walking right up to police and shooting them in broad daylight.  This has been encouraged by pushing a false narrative that all police are bad and deserve to be killed.  This is despite the FACT that the VAST majority of police interactions are benign.  Yet when is the last time the media showed a positive police interaction or story.  Showing up for a kids lemonade stand who had been robbed:   https://www.kmov.com/news/two-illinois-boys-selling-lemonade-were-robbed-at-gunpoint-then-their-community-stepped-in-to/article_635dba38-6038-59af-a6ee-650c69a7a450.html

When nothing but negative comments are put out NONSTOP 24/7/365 it poisons the well of folks on a subconscious level.  This is horrible for our society.  If police fall apart, then it will be up to society to fill those shoes and that will lead to horrible casualties.  Look at how many deaths CHOP had.  Talk about silly.  Then you have soldiers coming in to try to restore order and that would mark the end of the US and the beginning of a dictatorship.

 

No, taxes need not go up, we could easily cut costs in other areas of the government for this.  Heck, since police are local level, it could be paid for with a few cents in sales taxes.  The other thing that MUST HAPPEN is DA's and judges need to put folks in prison.  New York is regularly releasing folks who assault others, then get arrrested and are released, rinse and repeat:  https://www.amny.com/police-fire/as-felonies-rise-nypd-blames-repeat-offenders-released-with-no-bail/  and https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/released-from-rikers-in-covid-measure-man-arrested-4-times-in-3-months/2460035/.  Hell, if we dismantled the post office we could save 80plus billion a year.  Cut the money that states are giving to colleges who are ripping off the students going there and damn sure not teaching them anything that will aid them in life.  I can't count the number of youtube videos of college kids who know absolutely nothing of the basic history of the US.  You know what they say about those who fail to heed the lessons of history right?  The money I'm talking about wouldn't go into the pockets of the individual person, instead it would go into ongoing training sessions and review of job performance.  There will be some that are cocky and even some that are bad apples, we need to find them and get them out of the uniform.  

 

As you said, this should not be a partisan issue.  Cops have traditionally in the past voted as a solid block as democrats for crying out loud.  That they have been vilified by that party is very sad.  This needs to stop.  They need our support and any help we can give to get rid of their bad apples and be empowered via training, support and equipped to be what we are wanting them to be.  They are a very, very, very thin blue line between utter chaos and orderly society.  Only an insane person would want to compromise that thin blue line.

But I like chao- oh no thats bad.

 

It really depends on how you view it. For example when you said, "when is the last time the media showed a positive police interaction or story." I was thinking when was the last time news had a positive story in general? Never really because that would be boring. They got to make that moolah and got to do it quick making for sloppy work with half assed stories or rumors. Sometimes they do get the worst of humanity but for the most part they are only part of the story. It isn't just businesses. Considering everybody gets their sources from different places rumors become facts and finding the truth becomes that much harder.

 

Putting folks in prison is also troublesome. Because of Nixon's "war on drugs" the prisons are crowded. I would also say covid makes things complicated but people don't believe in covid so there goes that conversation.

 

I can't say much about the spending habits of government concerning colleges. But asking for youtubers to tell the world's history is like telling a vacuum to pick up a bowling ball. Even if they have an obsessive interest in it they couldn't keep track of all the dates, geological locations, names and psychology of the times right off the bat. This stuff is documented for a reason. I noticed you said basic history which is basically the closest historians can get to telling a solid story. Notice how I said story. Not saying they are telling lies but the streamlined version leaves out a lot of details. The separation of America from tyrannical British powers are all well and good but little details are skipped like how the founding fathers were slave owners or how they treat their wives and children at the home.

 

There was a time where Democrats were pro slavery. And so were police at least in the south around the time of the civil war. The irony is strong in people. Who knew? Almost made a Star Wars reference there. Anyway slavery continued long after the civil war in the form of prison labor. So no society is not orderly it is chaotic. People with different opinions, likes and dislikes come together into a group called society and for some reason think they are orderly. I love chaos but I hate tyranny. What does that make me? Well it means you and I are not so different. Police are tyrants of sorts but they are nothing compared to what will fill the gaps with them gone.

 

So yay police? Fuck it! Whatever goes down it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

[DoctaSax]

17 minutes ago, GimmeBACON said:

Also... the left is screeching like autistic retards

Then again, they don't use the phrase 'autistic retards', so they've got that going for them.

[gregathit]

42 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

It really depends on how you view it. For example when you said, "when is the last time the media showed a positive police interaction or story." I was thinking when was the last time news had a positive story in general? Never really because that would be boring. They got to make that moolah and got to do it quick making for sloppy work with half assed stories or rumors. Sometimes they do get the worst of humanity but for the most part they are only part of the story. It isn't just businesses. Considering everybody gets their sources from different places rumors become facts and finding the truth becomes that much harder.

I'm not averse to negative based stories, as long as they are not telling outright lies.   One good thing that has come from the media cutting their own throats is folks turning away from them to other sources and having a wide variety of those sources instead of it being concentrated in just 3 or 4 companies hands.  The more educated folks become, the better the chance of them making good decisions.

42 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Putting folks in prison is also troublesome. Because of Nixon's "war on drugs" the prisons are crowded. I would also say covid makes things complicated but people don't believe in covid so there goes that conversation.

Troublesome for whom?  The victim that gets assaulted because the criminal was released early (if they were even held at all) due to a spineless DA and judge?  A criminal that should never have been on the street in the first place.  Imagine that person assaulted was your mother or sister, wife or daughter.  You're not going to have much compassion in that situation.  And no, unless the prisoner is over the age of 70 and has underlying conditions, no, not releasing them due to the coof.  Normal folks have a 99.97 rate of recovery per the CDC released info.  Kinda hard to mount much of an argument with data like that.  Besides, I'm talking about violent offenders here.  Non-violent stuff should be a fine and released.  If needed, they can slap on the ankle monitor and restrict the person to house arrest.  That fixes the coof deal......if there is one to actually fix that is.

42 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

I can't say much about the spending habits of government concerning colleges. But asking for youtubers to tell the world's history is like telling a vacuum to pick up a bowling ball. Even if they have an obsessive interest in it they couldn't keep track of all the dates, geological locations, names and psychology of the times right off the bat. This stuff is documented for a reason. I noticed you said basic history which is basically the closest historians can get to telling a solid story. Notice how I said story. Not saying they are telling lies but the streamlined version leaves out a lot of details. The separation of America from tyrannical British powers are all well and good but little details are skipped like how the founding fathers were slave owners or how they treat their wives and children at the home.

I'm talking about youtube videos of college kids that are on campus in the US being asked basic questions.  The capital of their state.  When was the constitution signed.  Where was it signed.  Who wrote it?  You know, little shit like that.  It is amazing how many fail abysmally.  It doesn't surprise me.  I've trained a shit ton of kids fresh out of college during my career and it makes me sad about how much money they spent with no measurable gain.  The contrast them with folks that never went to college (my industry doesn't punish those folks as much as others do) and find that many of the non-college folks are better grounded.

 

And the founding fathers being slave owners.  A few of them were.  And so were EVERY OTHER FOUNDER OF EVERY OTHER COUNTRY back as far as we have written history.  Is slavery wrong.  Of course.  No one today would argue.  But folks believed differently hundreds of years ago.  Folks also thought leeches served some medical value.  They had all sorts of bad ideas.  It is stupid to try to judge folks that lived hundreds of years ago by the standards we hold today.  The fact that they owned slaves is tragic.  It however doesn't invalidate everything else that they did.  Besides, let's look at the British and how THEY treated Africans.  It damn sure isn't a model that anyone should follow.  

 

History isn't about memorizing dates and places.  It is about giving a person a grounding so that they can understand how their country got where they are and hopefully help them not repeat the mistakes of the past.  As you said, getting the general story down.  If they are interested, then they can dive into the details and all their nuances.

42 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

There was a time where Democrats were pro slavery. And so were police at least in the south around the time of the civil war. The irony is strong in people. Who knew? Almost made a Star Wars reference there. Anyway slavery continued long after the civil war in the form of prison labor. So no society is not orderly it is chaotic. People with different opinions, likes and dislikes come together into a group called society and for some reason think they are orderly. I love chaos but I hate tyranny. What does that make me? Well it means you and I are not so different. Police are tyrants of sorts but they are nothing compared to what will fill the gaps with them gone.

That is the part that really is comical.  The democrats were pro-slavery, pro-Jim Crow and had many members that were in the KKK.  Yet somehow democrats are now considered left wing and the KKK is alt-right.  Talk about irony.  ROFL!!!

 

I think you and I are probably more alike than different.  I enjoy the shit out of robust and even fiery debate in government.  The more they fight, the less they accomplish.  How many new laws do we freaking need when you come down to it?  I also don't mind a rousing debate in the general public.  I think most folks do.  Hell, look at the debate folks have with their sports teams.  Folks get a little heated sure, but they don't start riots when they loose.  Well............mostly anyways:  https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here-are-five-american-cities-which-rioted-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/   ?   There are exceptions to everything after all.

[Darkpig]

8 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Troublesome for whom?  The victim that gets assaulted because the criminal was released early (if they were even held at all) due to a spineless DA and judge?  A criminal that should never have been on the street in the first place.  Imagine that person assaulted was your mother or sister, wife or daughter.  You're not going to have much compassion in that situation.  And no, unless the prisoner is over the age of 70 and has underlying conditions, no, not releasing them due to the coof.  Normal folks have a 99.97 rate of recovery per the CDC released info.  Kinda hard to mount much of an argument with data like that.  Besides, I'm talking about violent offenders here.  Non-violent stuff should be a fine and released.  If needed, they can slap on the ankle monitor and restrict the person to house arrest.  That fixes the coof deal......if there is one to actually fix that is.

Since this is a popular response I must ruin it. That right there what you did was an emotional response. For you see I have no compassion in general. Maybe you are mistaking it for my passion. A fair mistake.

Aside from the people paying to keep these prisoners locked up, the neighborhoods that don't want prisons next to them, the guards trying to keep everything in order, the coof, people who have to suffer the bullshit that is privately owned prisons and the people who have to deal with "reformed" criminals out of jail who lets be real here were just made better criminals because of his fellow inmate. Aside from that nobody that I can think of is suffering from this.

 

I can't deny that non-violent offenders should be monitored outside of the prison.

8 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I'm talking about youtube videos of college kids that are on campus in the US being asked basic questions.  The capital of their state.  When was the constitution signed.  Where was it signed.  Who wrote it?  You know, little shit like that.  It is amazing how many fail abysmally.  It doesn't surprise me.  I've trained a shit ton of kids fresh out of college during my career and it makes me sad about how much money they spent with no measurable gain.  The contrast them with folks that never went to college (my industry doesn't punish those folks as much as others do) and find that many of the non-college folks are better grounded.

I'll go with yeah. The ego that comes with a paid education sometimes get to people. You think wow only 5% of people have an associates degree? Only 5% of people can afford an associates degree and then it really gets put into perspective. People often have a career in mind when going to college. Maybe college could do without generals. Still as silly as it sounds it taught me how to cite my sources so take from it what you will.

8 minutes ago, gregathit said:

And the founding fathers being slave owners.  A few of them were.  And so were EVERY OTHER FOUNDER OF EVERY OTHER COUNTRY back as far as we have written history.  Is slavery wrong.  Of course.  No one today would argue.  But folks believed differently hundreds of years ago.  Folks also thought leeches served some medical value.  They had all sorts of bad ideas.  It is stupid to try to judge folks that lived hundreds of years ago by the standards we hold today.  The fact that they owned slaves is tragic.  It however doesn't invalidate everything else that they did.  Besides, let's look at the British and how THEY treated Africans.  It damn sure isn't a model that anyone should follow.

Leeches aren't as painful as they look. Speaking of leeches would you like to buy a leech?? I don't know what is going on with people's minds nowadays but I don't think people have the wrong idea of primarily focusing on local problems. I've been trying to figure that out people since middle school and little good that did me. Particularly government and the stupidity that ensues puzzled me. At some point people magically start thinking that police are evil that needs to be stopped and It sounds like something out of a conspiracy theory. Perhaps it is the idea of rich people buying their way out of justice that makes people question the justice system which they should. I guess in that way I answered my own early teen questions. The government is the people and the people are the government making facts themselves skewed. The word on the block is "fake news" and now everybody is losing their shit.

 

Speaking of stupid history Neil Gaiman's name is pronounced Neil Gay-man. What is this Neil Guy-man shit? Are you trying to prove his masculinity? He is both a guy and a man.

Spoiler

 

 

[cailic]

What really pisses me off?  Well, according to my girlfriend, everything.  Since I've making so many posts lately, the American language pisses me off.  You know how many times I have to use spell checker?  Twice on this post alone, so far. 

I say, I'm just realistic.  My girlfriend says I'm being negative.  Can I help it?  The world is a very negative place.  Not much works right and the things that do are of poor design. 

 

Traffic laws do NOT piss me off.  They are logical rules that everyone should know so that everyone knows what everyone else is going to do in any given situation.  This only works if everyone driving know the rules of the road.  At a cross roads intersection, two way stop.  Regardless of who stop first, the person going straight or making a right hand turn has the right of way.  I had a dumb ass turn around and follow me to my mom's house when I didn't give him the right of way.   He was making a left hand turn and I was going straight.  He stopped first so he assumed he had the right of way.  He is a dumb ass, not only for not knowing how to drive, but also because he was driving a company van, with the company name all over the side of it.  So he yells and threatens me in front of my mom's house. 

I would have just let the incident go, but with all the crazy people out there today, and the fact that he followed me to mom's house, I called the police.  Firstly, I wanted to confirm that what I had known all my life was, indeed, true.  I asked the police who had the right of way in this instance.  THEY COULDN'T TELL ME!!!  The police, who enforce the driving laws.  They had to hand me over to the fire chief who looked it up in the drivers manual.   I did have the right of way.  But I was befuddled.  How could I be angry with this common citizen for not knowing the rules of the road when the  cops don't even know.  Something you encounter every day that you go out on the road, and nobody knows what to do. 

 

I guess not enough people take drivers ed.  I would also blame all the "nice guys" out there, who have the right of way, but let the other person go first.  Only in rare instances should this ever happen.  Again, the rules of the road are there so everyone knows what everyone else is doing.  Don't confuse people.  When somebody tries to be nice in an instance such as this, I do my best to ignore them.  They are waving me on, and we are sitting there.  Finally, I have to move because because the other person is insistent that I go first. 

 

Once, at a major traffic light intersection, we get a green left turn arrow.  The person at the intersection sits there, trying to wave on cop, across the way who was going to turn right.  The cop is looking down the road.  He doesn't even see the person trying to wave him on.  Finally, the cop sees him and turns.  By this time the dumb ass, nice guy is the only one who makes it through the light before it tuns red.  I guess he feels good about letting the cop go first.  He helped one person while making at least six others wait on his dumb ass.  I see this type of thing a lot.  People never give any thought to the people they are hindering when they try to do their "good deed".  Pathway to hell?

 

Rubber neckers REALLY piss me off.  I nearly died one time on the highway.  I was following a white utility van, at a safe distance in the left hand lane.  I was wondering why the traffic was moving so slow in the right hand lane.  Probably an exit ramp was backed up.  Suddenly, the van whips over into the right hand lane and I am faced with stopped traffic in front of me.  I had two choices, go right and slam into another car, or go left and slam into the concrete support under the overpass.  I guess I would have taken the concrete route.  But a trucker I guess saw what about to happen and had backed off enough to let me dodge the stopped cars ahead of me.  What was the problem?  A traffic accident on the other side of the highway.  If I had had a gun......   Every one of those dumb ass SOBs should have had their licenses taken from them.  When you are driving, MIND YOUR OWN DAMMED BUSINESS!

 

The problem with a lot of things is that people don't give any consideration to those around them.  I once got a ticket at 2 AM, because the cop started following me and they said the reason for the ticket was I never slowed down.  The thing is, I would have slowed down when I noticed I was speeding, but there was someone right behind me that I didn't want to inconvenience by hitting my brakes.   That's just the way I am on the road.  My girlfriend complains I take turns too fast.  My thought is, I want to get out everyone's way so they don't have to slow down.

 

Oddly enough, I don't have a problem with road rage.  I use to.  Someone once cut in front of me, with only inches to spare from my front bumper, doing about 70.  I stayed right on his bumper with the thought that if he hits his brakes, I'm dead.  But I didn't care, as long as I took him with me.  If you use your turn signal before cutting me off, at least your showing some respect.  Thankfully, I don't get pissed at drivers anymore.  Firstly, I rationalized, I did some stupid things behind the wheel when i was younger.  If I curse them, I'm cursing myself.  Secondly, I don't know why they did what they did.  I've cut people off before simply because I didn't see them.  I always look, but given the right conditions, speed, size of the vehicles,  you could still not see someone.  There were two times I swear that the vehicles materialized out of thin air. 

 

Well, I didn't expect to rant, but there it is.

[AKM]

22 hours ago, gregathit said:

That video makes me ill.  It is a perfect example of the piss poor training that police and other first responders get and why we need MORE money for them and not less.  Most likely that poor guy will never walk again.  If he does, it won't be a normal walk.  This is what Americans should be protesting, that we are asking way too much from folks that are not trained sufficiently.  These are mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters who are working for a piss salary to serve the general public.  A public that largely mocks and disrespects them.  None of this is new unfortunately.  Yet despite all of that horrible treatment, those same people, without a moments hesitation, charge into danger to rescue people.  We should all be ashamed.

Having been a young firefighter/EMT, once upon a time, I can tell you that they do give training, perhaps not sufficient training, but the problem is often with the individual.  As I stated previously, FAR too many police officers get the 'Obey My Authorita' thing going to their heads, and turn on the "18 and bulletproof" switch in their brain.  I was there, and I know what it felt like to be the person doing good for the community.  It didn't last, but while it did, I took some really stupid chances that didn't matter for anyone but me.

As for the whole "this person has a family/is a family" statement, I'm sure you've seen the clip where these individuals have stated that they don't give shit about the families of anyone representing authority.  I remember clearly the old guys talking about what it was like to be a firefighter in the old days, when people respected others who took such risks.  Even when I was young, that sort of respect was pretty much non-existent anymore, to the point where it was notable when someone said something at all.  It's also one of the prime reasons I walked away from the EMT side.  I wanted to make a difference, and all I found was people who just didn't care.  I decided that my personal health was more important than helping people who couldn't care less if they tried.  Basically, it boiled down to people who'd made piss poor decisions earlier in their lives, and then felt that I was supposed to risk my health to help them. As I said, it didn't last long.

[AKM]

20 hours ago, gregathit said:

The other thing that MUST HAPPEN is DA's and judges need to put folks in prison.  New York is regularly releasing folks who assault others, then get arrrested and are released, rinse and repeat

I watched a documentary on Seattle, Washington (state)'s drug problem, and this is precisely why one officer they interviewed retired.  The basic premise of the documentary was about how Seattle has a massive drug problem (due to the virtual legalization of previously illegal drugs) that they swept under the rug.  That drug problem led directly to a homelessness problem - and THAT is what the politicians focus on, whilst completely ignoring the underlying reason there for.  They had footage of this officer going into the homeless and drug activity areas and actively 'community policing', that is, showing the face of the police department, and basically getting to know the people as, well, people.  This is NOT how it's done, apparently, and he was actively discouraged from doing so, eventually getting so fed up that he resigned.  ...And yet Seattle still has a drug/homelessness problem.  Who'da thunk?

[RitualClarity]

19 hours ago, gregathit said:

  This is exactly the type of BS that is being preached non-stop by the media and others that has poisoned the well.   Yes, it happens occasionally, but is NOT the norm.  The statistics simply don't back this narrative.  If it did, we would have thousands of cops behind bars and cities sued out of existence in civil court.

I never stated it was rampant.. just that it happens. Besides training there needs to be follow up to be sure those cases were the officer starts to slip and deviate from the policies and procedures are brought back in line.. before those major events occur.

19 hours ago, gregathit said:

Exactly.  This is what I am talking about.  When someone is firing at you, you are not going to remember a policy and procedure manual that you read once or twice 2 to 3 years ago.  Hell, it is doubtful you'd remember it if you read it the day before.  Practice makes permanent.  Practice in how to properly respond to threats, in deescalating, and in hand to hand fighting.  And let's face it, a 90 lbs man or woman (or a person who is overweight) has NO BUSINESS being a street cop.  You'll just have to get used to being behind a desk.  If you make exceptions for those who are not up standards of hand to hand combat then their only recourse is to shoot folks.  

My case exactly. They need to be monitored and re-trained as needed.  I agreed that they need more training along these lines as well.. in other paths as well if they are expected to respond to situations that their basic training doesn't cover. There is a reason there are SWAT and Patrol Cops... The Patrol Cops don't just one day decide the want to participate in a SWAT operation. They need that specialized training.

 

One thing that is common with many of these events that are hitting the news. Resisting the police. Refusing to follow their instructions and in the end making them feel like their hand is forced.  This most recent event ... she had a boy friend selling drugs. She was associating with a felon. No wonder the police came to her door. No wonder there was a shoot out. She put herself in that situation willfully.  Doesn't excuse the police officers for violating their policies and procedures (like the officer did blindly shooting into the glass windows with blinds.

 

the man that got shot in the back 7 times didn't follow the instructions and went for his car .. he could have stood there and did jumping jacks all fucking day likely and nothing would have happened but he forced them to respond. When this happened one of the officers shot him. AS far as I can tell wrongfully but... he wasn't 100% acting alone. The man was contributing.

 

90 pounds or 900 pounds, if someone is pressuring the cops  and they  don't have the proper training and re-enforcement that I mentioned above,  Disasters will happen.  Stop forcing the reactions by following the instructions and then dealing with if or if not they violated your civil rights after... and doubt many of those people that were killed would have been killed. (with the exception of the officer blindly shooting into the apartment. In that case, stay the fuck away from drug dealers and felons commuting crime)  I don't know any officer that will go hand to hand with any person with a weapon .. be it a knife, 2 by 4, or whatever.

19 hours ago, gregathit said:

Unless the cop is standing behind a solid concrete bridge embankment (or a freaking tank) there is no real safe deployment method for those spike strips.  Standing behind a police car isn't safe.   Hell, just play GTA for a few minutes and you can figure that one out. 

That is part of their training. Stay I believe 20 feet behind a cop car/truck.  Of course it isn't 100 % safe but ... better than that cop standing out in the open trying.   I am sure that he didn't follow the proper training for deployment. Another person that needed a refersher and or complete retraining. Maybe, someone that didn't even get the training in the first place.    Just to be clear, I agree deployment of strip is extremely unsafe and dangerous. However, there are procedures to follow to try to make it better

19 hours ago, gregathit said:

 

I have seen something that shows some promise:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850ZgmDO61U&feature=emb_logo

I've yet to see any police departments deploy it, so it may not have been as effective as they claimed.  Plus it would require a specialized vehicle.  Hopefully they can come up with something similar that be safe for all parties (yea, even the dumbass criminal) to end car chases.  While they are great fun to watch them happen from the house, it isn't all that wonderful for anyone close to them.

That looks interesting. I believe I seen something similar may years ago but .. tech does improve perhaps it works well now.

 

I also found this .. it looks interesting and would solve the problem of the officer being so close to traffic and as you stated, even behind a car it can be dangerous . With that device the officer can be far away and deploy it ... much safer.

 

[AKM]

19 hours ago, gregathit said:

Practice in how to properly respond to threats, in deescalating, and in hand to hand fighting.  And let's face it, a 90 lbs man or woman (or a person who is overweight) has NO BUSINESS being a street cop.  You'll just have to get used to being behind a desk.  If you make exceptions for those who are not up standards of hand to hand combat then their only recourse is to shoot folks.

The thing is, when you look at the sheer violence of policing in the U.S., there's a reason for it, and that reason is lack of options.  De-escellation, hand-to-hand combat, and other "anything less than resorting to the firearm" are given way less time in training than marksmanship alone.  As you said earlier as well, if you want the training to be effective, you must train until it becomes muscle memory and reflex.

[AKM]

5 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

I also found this .. it looks interesting and would solve the problem of the officer being so close to traffic and as you stated, even behind a car it can be dangerous . With that device the officer can be far away and deploy it ... much safer.

 

The problem with this particular device is that it is more for protecting structures, or, more to the point, roadways leading to structures.  Rather like the metal poles that retract into the ground, they're very effective at stopping a vehicle, but aren't the sort of thing that's highly mobile.

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, AKM said:

The problem with this particular device is that it is more for protecting structures, or, more to the point, roadways leading to structures.  Rather like the metal poles that retract into the ground, they're very effective at stopping a vehicle, but aren't the sort of thing that's highly mobile.

Some of them can be used for government building and such, My link should have lead to the one that was tire spikes that were deployed by remote. So that the officer can be further away, and perhaps be behind something much more solid like a concrete barricade or something.

[RitualClarity]

21 hours ago, gregathit said:

Ashamed of what?  Holy cow!  We now have folks walking right up to police and shooting them in broad daylight.  This has been encouraged by pushing a false narrative that all police are bad and deserve to be killed.  This is despite the FACT that the VAST majority of police interactions are benign.  Yet when is the last time the media showed a positive police interaction or story. 

 

I am happy to say a radio station where I live told a nice positive police interaction story on my way to work today!  There was a fire, the building was engulfed in flames the officer couldn't get through the front or back doors (I believe he kicked one but it was too hot/flames to be able to get through after) but, he was cleaver and went around to a window air conditioner and was able to pull it out and get a 14 year old out of the building in time.  He just wasn't going to give up and kept on trying even though the building was in flames and no apparent option was available. he created one ?

 

 

 

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, AKM said:

Having been a young firefighter/EMT, once upon a time, I can tell you that they do give training, perhaps not sufficient training, but the problem is often with the individual.  As I stated previously, FAR too many police officers get the 'Obey My Authorita' thing going to their heads, and turn on the "18 and bulletproof" switch in their brain.  I was there, and I know what it felt like to be the person doing good for the community.  It didn't last, but while it did, I took some really stupid chances that didn't matter for anyone but me.

As for the whole "this person has a family/is a family" statement, I'm sure you've seen the clip where these individuals have stated that they don't give shit about the families of anyone representing authority.  I remember clearly the old guys talking about what it was like to be a firefighter in the old days, when people respected others who took such risks.  Even when I was young, that sort of respect was pretty much non-existent anymore, to the point where it was notable when someone said something at all.  It's also one of the prime reasons I walked away from the EMT side.  I wanted to make a difference, and all I found was people who just didn't care.  I decided that my personal health was more important than helping people who couldn't care less if they tried.  Basically, it boiled down to people who'd made piss poor decisions earlier in their lives, and then felt that I was supposed to risk my health to help them. As I said, it didn't last long.

Not even a thank you? How bloody hard is it to say "thankyou" or even "thanks"? Police I can understand because they are too busy either out fighting crime or handing out speeding tickets but firefighters? What a weird ass world we live in.

 

Then there is the question are people worth saving? Lets just say I'm not the best person to ask. I wanted to be a hero once but then I realized it was not for me. Too many people. Too many problems. Definitely not for me.

[AKM]

21 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Not even a thank you? How bloody hard is it to say "thankyou" or even "thanks"? Police I can understand because they are too busy either out fighting crime or handing out speeding tickets but firefighters? What a weird ass world we live in.

 

Then there is the question are people worth saving? Lets just say I'm not the best person to ask. I wanted to be a hero once but then I realized it was not for me. Too many people. Too many problems. Definitely not for me.

Nope.  Not when I was working as an EMT.  But then, most of these people, this wasn't 911. They were the ones who'd made poor life choices (most of them), and were living a rather not so great life due to that.  The reason they needed an ambulance + equipment + trained medical professional was due to their condition.  Don't get me wrong, it's not a very pleasant condition to have, and really makes you feel rotten, but still.  It got old, fast, getting bitch, bitch, bitch from the over-wieght ones, especially when we simply didn't have the manpower to safely lift them.  Though even with 911, when I responded as "extra muscle" in firefighter form for a large individual, there wasn't much "Gee, thanks, guys".  On the other hand, more than once I had people apologizing left right and sideways for their CO alarm going off at ungodly:30 in the morning.  That I didn't mind at all.  As I kept telling those people "That's exactly what we're here for!"  But then, of course, there's the big country club whose automatic alarm went off every other weekend or so.  THAT got to the point where I quit caring, and if it was that place, I just turned my pager off and went back to bed.  That was the beginning of the end for me as a firefighter.  Once you stop caring, well, you're finished in that business whether it's paid or volunteer, doesn't matter. You MUST care.  The problem is, it's SO damned difficult to do so when those who you're supposed to care about make it blatantly obvious that they couldn't give to shits about YOU.  They could have fixed that system.  The people at the at place have money out the wazoo.  But not for inconveniencing the fire department.  And fines?  They don't care about fines, either.  Fines are pocket change to them.

Are there people who aren't worth saving?  Definitely.  Fortunately or unfortunately, that's not our place to determine.  Someone needs help, you have the training and tools to help, you do so, period, end of sentence. 

See, the whole hero thing.  Honestly, that's why most anyone gets into it, at least initially.  The problem is, you wind up discovering several things along the way. 

First and foremost: The world's a shitty place, and shitty things happen to good people, and shitty people sometimes get off scott-free, and remain shitty people.  As a friend of mine who became a police officer told me "My god people are stupid!"  Yeah.  And?  This is not news!  I think it opened his eyes to some of the crap I saw as an EMT when he tried to get a reaction out of me telling me about a call he got for a drugged up 9 year old (or something like that).  My response was less than shocked.  You have to remember, I spent my time seeing that stuff.  I believe it.  I've seen similar.  It was then that he started to understand, I think.  Sometimes, you can only do that for so long, be around that stuff.  Eventually, enough is enough, and you have to walk away.

Secondly, politics is EVERYWHERE!  You think that fire department is about providing a critical service (or several) to the community?  Think again!  It's all about personal fiefdoms.  MY piece of the pie!  MY ego!  Etc. and so on.  That shit gets very old, very fast.  If you're a volunteer, as I was, and you're not getting paid good money to put up with that shit, well, you don't last, as I didn't.  I miss the calls, the trucks, the camaraderie.  ...Or not.  I distinctly remember during the heaviest snowstorm we'd had in years, the chief was the ONLY person out helping me shovel snow.  Amazing.

I don't miss the pissing contests, the fiefdoms and the backstabbing.  Or the lack of a decent sleep schedule!

So, no, it matters not a whit what you help with, there will always be more problems.  Thing is, you WILL make a difference to one person, or several.  I've had that happen more than once in my life, not always in the emergency response sector.  Did I waste my time?  Sometimes, given the ultimate outcome, I think I did.  Others, I think that, hey, at least I made life better for that person while it lasted.  So who knows what the answer is.  Usually, as you stated, I think it's a personal question and a personal answer.