Sanguine Debauchery (SD+) (January 2025)

[DonQuiWho]

On 9/19/2018 at 12:18 AM, donkeywho said:

@DeepBlueFrog

Spoiler

 

 

I'm using SDPlus 362 beta3

 

I have a problem that has been referred to above by others and on which I should like some advice, please

 

I first landed up in Sanguine's domain after sleeping in the Riverwood Sleeping Giant Inn, and couldn't get out again.  The Quest 'The Truth' was for some reason active at the time. Read up on the thread and saw others saying 'you need to be enslaved before Dreamworld visit first, etc - which hadn't happened - and you saying that you first needed to sleep in front of Sanguine's statue - a place I had already visited on the main Meadery poisoning quest, but not slept at the shrine - so went back to an earlier save and carried on from their as it seemed to have borked

 

I have now gone back to the Meadery, slept at the Sanguine Shrine, been shuftied off to Dreamworld, and once again can't seem to get out

 

I got the text (paraphrased heavily) re would you like some mead?, offered it and gave it to him, got the 'i want to get out ?' dialogue, but never get released.  Hung around for there for about an hour realtime.  I've seen some txt about having fun, some telling me Sanguine's wisdom about what the Dragonborn has done, something about been had by all 4 (?), - with the poor Dragonborn having by this time been shafted silly, and on one occasion asked to 'Submit or Resist once, Resist chosen - but every time I select the 'I wanna go home' txt, I get the 'you've only just arrived, stay and have some fun' stuff . 

 

I haven't yet tried to flush it all away by pulling the chain ?

 

I saw you ask others, also querying this, about the stage values so here are those in my game for stage completion for _sd_dream (in console also called 'The Truth')

 

They were as follows, Left to right:

 

Stage No;  Value in Dreamworld when logged off;  Value in save before slept at shrine

 

0          1   1

10        1   0

15        0   0

20        0   0

100      0   0

200      1   0

202      1   0

210      0   0

220      0   0

222      0   0

224      1   1

226      1   1

230      0   0

232      1   0

234      1   0

236      0   0

all rest  0   0

 

Does any of that help at all?

 

(I'll keep these saves, but meantime continue my main game from before I went into the Meadery)

 

FWIW, I also asked a question about SD papyrus log messages upstream, (here, or in beta thread) but haven't seen any reply to that.  Any chance on a help with that too, please, even if it's only just 'I haven't really got a clue' or tl;didn't read ? .    No-one is expecting you to know everything all of the time  

 

TIA if you can give me any help with this

 

 

 

@DeepBlueFrog

 

Hi, and thanks for the reply about the progress issue

 

I've now tried out the Beta 5 version, with some success, and I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps some of the 'issues' that I've been 'seeing', and maybe those reported by others too, might not result more from the way we 'think' about playing the game and its mods, and the consequences of that, rather than being, so to speak, 'real' bugs.

 

What I mean is that after hours of playing, nearly 3000 on my Steam a/c, you may get set in your ways as to how you think the game, and most mods, will play out. 

 

 

Basically, it's a bit like this:

 

1 - first up, you get a whacking great prompt that you need to go and do some task, such as collect something, talk to some person, murder another one

 

2 - there is a fairly terse line of quest text appears in your journal saying what that is, it being linked to

 

3 - a big sign now appearing on your map pointing you where the place to be is, to do whatever it is

 

4 - you get there, and if you have to talk to someone, let's call them DUM DUM, you find a relevant line, or multiple lines, of dialogue, and you go through them all to squeeze all the info out of DUM DUM, and then, when necessary, GOTO 1, with the probability of an immediate return to DUM DUM approximating zero

 

 

 

But SD+ seems to be different in that, taking parts of DREAMWORLD as an example

 

A - you don't really get a whacking great prompt at all as to what you're supposed to be doing before you get to somewhere

 

B - there isn't really a line of Journal text telling you what to do,

 

C - SD+ gets you to places, by and large, by an 'accident of malevolent teleportation' without their being signposted on the map

 

D - and when you realise where you are, there are multiple people to talk to, let's call them CLEVER COOKIES, and you MAY find a relevant line, or multiple lines, of dialogue when talking to them, but there is no guarantee that once you have gone through all those and squeezed all the info out of CLEVER COOKY that you're thinking you're going to get, that the first conversation will have any relevance to immediate direct progress at all so, unlike conventional play, you don't necessarily do a GOTO A, with zero probability of an immediate return to CLEVER COOKY, but find yourself having to dot back and forward between all the local CLEVER COOKIES players multiple times to get a COLLECTIVE dialogue that will provide for progress, and

 

E - the Journal entries are then written up post event, not as indicators of what you need to do, but as a narrative of what HAS HAPPENED

 

 

I can't think on any other mod that I have that works in quite such a subtle manner.  So is there maybe any chance that Set Theory, ie the notion that you can get so stuck in your ways of approaching similar tasks that you become incapable or trying to do things differently, is at play here, and might account for the difficulty some of us might have?

 

It would certainly explain why you see nothing unexpected/no errors, but players out in the wild may be perceiving that there are?

 

Just, FWIW, my tuppence worth, based on the progress I made the last couple of evenings.  Of course, I could just have got lucky and if there are errors, dodged the bullets this time

 

[XarisZ]

Sanguine explains what you need to do.He sais go out there and experiment right?Why don't follow his advice?

 

[DeepBlueFrog]

On 9/20/2018 at 1:32 PM, Teddar said:

Did i understand that correctly? Scenes with the smaller cages placed in the vanilla game (i.e. not by the SD cages Mod) wont ever work? I ask because they certainly used to in the original SD mod and in SD+2044 if memory serves. Indeed i remember one of my favorite parts of the original SD mod was when the master/mistress locked you in a cage all night then got you out and beat the crap out of you in the morning. I miss that /sniff ?

Maybe we are not talking about the same cages.

 

Can you tell me an example of smaller cages I could go and try with SD+?

[DeepBlueFrog]

6 hours ago, donkeywho said:

 

@DeepBlueFrog

 

Hi, and thanks for the reply about the progress issue

 

I've now tried out the Beta 5 version, with some success, and I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps some of the 'issues' that I've been 'seeing', and maybe those reported by others too, might not result more from the way we 'think' about playing the game and its mods, and the consequences of that, rather than being, so to speak, 'real' bugs.

 

What I mean is that after hours of playing, nearly 3000 on my Steam a/c, you may get set in your ways as to how you think the game, and most mods, will play out. 

 

 

Basically, it's a bit like this:

 

1 - first up, you get a whacking great prompt that you need to go and do some task, such as collect something, talk to some person, murder another one

 

2 - there is a fairly terse line of quest text appears in your journal saying what that is, it being linked to

 

3 - a big sign now appearing on your map pointing you where the place to be is, to do whatever it is

 

4 - you get there, and if you have to talk to someone, let's call them DUM DUM, you find a relevant line, or multiple lines, of dialogue, and you go through them all to squeeze all the info out of DUM DUM, and then, when necessary, GOTO 1, with the probability of an immediate return to DUM DUM approximating zero

 

 

 

But SD+ seems to be different in that, taking parts of DREAMWORLD as an example

 

A - you don't really get a whacking great prompt at all as to what you're supposed to be doing before you get to somewhere

 

B - there isn't really a line of Journal text telling you what to do,

 

C - SD+ gets you to places, by and large, by an 'accident of malevolent teleportation' without their being signposted on the map

 

D - and when you realise where you are, there are multiple people to talk to, let's call them CLEVER COOKIES, and you MAY find a relevant line, or multiple lines, of dialogue when talking to them, but there is no guarantee that once you have gone through all those and squeezed all the info out of CLEVER COOKY that you're thinking you're going to get, that the first conversation will have any relevance to immediate direct progress at all so, unlike conventional play, you don't necessarily do a GOTO A, with zero probability of an immediate return to CLEVER COOKY, but find yourself having to dot back and forward between all the local CLEVER COOKIES players multiple times to get a COLLECTIVE dialogue that will provide for progress, and

 

E - the Journal entries are then written up post event, not as indicators of what you need to do, but as a narrative of what HAS HAPPENED

 

 

I can't think on any other mod that I have that works in quite such a subtle manner.  So is there maybe any chance that Set Theory, ie the notion that you can get so stuck in your ways of approaching similar tasks that you become incapable or trying to do things differently, is at play here, and might account for the difficulty some of us might have?

 

It would certainly explain why you see nothing unexpected/no errors, but players out in the wild may be perceiving that there are?

 

Just, FWIW, my tuppence worth, based on the progress I made the last couple of evenings.  Of course, I could just have got lucky and if there are errors, dodged the bullets this time

 

I agree on most of your points except B - I added a quest stage explaining what you have to do at all stages. If one is missing or unlcear, let me know and I will improve them.

 

For the rest of your points, this goes back to my nostalgia of Morrowind sending you somewhere to explore and my frustration of Oblivion and Skyrim taking players by the hand and telling you what to do every damn step of the way. Were is the exploration? the mystery?

 

Part of the issue too comes from having a lot of difficulties getting quest markers and scenes to work properly, so I have a tendency to do without those.

 

My other mods are like that too, with the same amount of frustration I may add - Sisterhood, Alicia, Parasites, Stories...

I am sorry for the confusion they cause casual players but I won't be changing that any time soon.

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

I agree on most of your points except B - I added a quest stage explaining what you have to do at all stages. If one is missing or unlcear, let me know and I will improve them.

 

For the rest of your points, this goes back to my nostalgia of Morrowind sending you somewhere to explore and my frustration of Oblivion and Skyrim taking players by the hand and telling you what to do every damn step of the way. Were is the exploration? the mystery?

 

Part of the issue too comes from having a lot of difficulties getting quest markers and scenes to work properly, so I have a tendency to do without those.

 

My other mods are like that too, with the same amount of frustration I may add - Sisterhood, Alicia, Parasites, Stories...

I am sorry for the confusion they cause casual players but I won't be changing that any time soon.

Thanks for the reply

 

 

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm not asking for anything to be changed, in that regard, at all!  It's really good to have something that is different, and much more challenging, as a result

 

I was merely trying to find a rationale for some people maybe, like myself, seeming to have some initial troubles.  In my own case, I narrowed those down to probably being both too old and set in my ways ?.  And, of course, no-one else here who plays your mod will be afflicted with either of those traits

 

Thanks again, and I really appreciate the work that you have, and continue, to put into this and your other mods

 

 

 

One more question, if I may? 

 

I run Defeat without DAYMOYL, and DCL with the Combat Rape scenarios disabled (the latter are too unreliable presently, although Kimy said she was addressing those for next version) So, without those, is there any way that SD+ can automatically kick in enslavement of one's PC to the victor without it going through the only other alternative I can find, which is Simple Slavery, and therefore starting a scenario with a 'master/mistress' unassociated with the original combat victor or combat location?

 

I see some code in my logs implying SD+ is evaluating combatants in the course of a punch up - I posted that up thread a few days with a similar, but less explicit, query - but I'm not sure if that SD+ activity will make any difference or not

 

If it doesn't/won't presently, is there any chance that you might at some future point implement a possibility for a direct handover of loser to victor?  

 

 

 

[DeepBlueFrog]

5 hours ago, donkeywho said:

 

One more question, if I may? 

 

I run Defeat without DAYMOYL, and DCL with the Combat Rape scenarios disabled (the latter are too unreliable presently, although Kimy said she was addressing those for next version) So, without those, is there any way that SD+ can automatically kick in enslavement of one's PC to the victor without it going through the only other alternative I can find, which is Simple Slavery, and therefore starting a scenario with a 'master/mistress' unassociated with the original combat victor or combat location?

 

I see some code in my logs implying SD+ is evaluating combatants in the course of a punch up - I posted that up thread a few days with a similar, but less explicit, query - but I'm not sure if that SD+ activity will make any difference or not

 

If it doesn't/won't presently, is there any chance that you might at some future point implement a possibility for a direct handover of loser to victor?  

 

The reason I added DA as a dependency is precisely to handle automatic handover to SD after defeat. 

SD originally had its own mechanism but it was brittle and caused too much interference with other systems like Defeat or DA.

 

The only option you have is to manually trigger enslavement during combat with the Submit key from SD+ ( '\' by default ).

[Jappa123]

11 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

Maybe we are not talking about the same cages.

 

Can you tell me an example of smaller cages I could go and try with SD+?

I guess we are talking about this one: http://i.imgur.com/xStucmp.jpg 

They are not working in Beta 5

only these works in Beta 5: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Iaumxk7FaQQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

The reason I added DA as a dependency is precisely to handle automatic handover to SD after defeat. 

SD originally had its own mechanism but it was brittle and caused too much interference with other systems like Defeat or DA.

 

The only option you have is to manually trigger enslavement during combat with the Submit key from SD+ ( '\' by default ).

Ah, OK.  Unfortunately, DA is just a bit too brittle for comfort for me ?

 

I'll just stick to the SS route until the new version of DCL comes along and maybe provides an alternative as, for personal taste, 'manual' surrender lacks spontaneity and risk

 

Thanks again for your time and trouble 

[DeepBlueFrog]

31 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Ah, OK.  Unfortunately, DA is just a bit too brittle for comfort for me ?

 

I'll just stick to the SS route until the new version of DCL comes along and maybe provides an alternative as, for personal taste, 'manual' surrender lacks spontaneity and risk

 

Thanks again for your time and trouble 

You can always role play the submit key as your character declaring defeat and telling your opponent ‘no more, I submit’.

[DeepBlueFrog]

54 minutes ago, Jappa123 said:

I guess we are talking about this one: http://i.imgur.com/xStucmp.jpg 

They are not working in Beta 5

only these works in Beta 5: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Iaumxk7FaQQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

Can you repost the first image? It didn’t come out right.

[Jappa123]

16 minutes ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

Can you repost the first image? It didn’t come out right.

[DeepBlueFrog]

1 hour ago, Jappa123 said:

Looks like I have to go back on testing the cages again.

 

Small cages like these should work. That’s what is in Mistawatch and what I usually test against.

 

The larger cages above are not what I usually test so I don’t know if they ever worked right.

[Warlock3000]

As the mod already has "Limited removal" option, would you consider adding a condition to not remove items marked as "Never remove" in SexLab?

Would help with mods that add hair, tails, and other stuff like that as equippable items.

[DeepBlueFrog]

1 hour ago, Warlock3000 said:

As the mod already has "Limited removal" option, would you consider adding a condition to not remove items marked as "Never remove" in SexLab?

Would help with mods that add hair, tails, and other stuff like that as equippable items.

Those should be already safe. 

 

Do you have an example I can test for?

[suckmycock1700]

Sanguine's artifact is busted beyond belief

 

It was stuck on my character, there is no way to remove it. Here's what I have tried:

 

>asking court wizards

"Sorry I can't help you"

>Removing it by console?

Pfft, no way, I've tried it all unless someone has some secret new console command to try, It keept coming back. Why do DDs not have emergency pullout switches to get things off?

>Ask sanguine?

over 2 dozen attempts asking "can you remove these cursed chains" and he continues to insist that since he has just put them on, that  he will not remove them. I have waited a full in game day, left the dreamworld and come back, etc. no luck

>use the beta?

I updated to beta 5, if it actually fixes the problem, it won't help me because it seems that it doesn't update to the new version of the device script, because the court wizards and blacksmiths still do not help get it off

>uninstall the mod?

using the ingame MCM, after the mod says "Devices cleaned up", IT'S STILL THERE holy shit

>mother of god delete the esp for christ's sake

after a long battle with sanguine's artifact, the beast is finally slain, the device banished from this realm

 

After this great battle I reinstalled the beta, because the current release is super buggy. Hopefully the beta gets ready for launch sooner than later, it is badly needed. I think most users would just ignore the artifact but i needed all devices removed for a special reason.

 

[Fuzzy_Fox]

3 hours ago, suckmycock1700 said:

Sanguine's artifact is busted beyond belief

 

It was stuck on my character, there is no way to remove it. Here's what I have tried:

 

>asking court wizards

"Sorry I can't help you"

>Removing it by console?

Pfft, no way, I've tried it all unless someone has some secret new console command to try, It keept coming back. Why do DDs not have emergency pullout switches to get things off?

>Ask sanguine?

over 2 dozen attempts asking "can you remove these cursed chains" and he continues to insist that since he has just put them on, that  he will not remove them. I have waited a full in game day, left the dreamworld and come back, etc. no luck

>use the beta?

I updated to beta 5, if it actually fixes the problem, it won't help me because it seems that it doesn't update to the new version of the device script, because the court wizards and blacksmiths still do not help get it off

>uninstall the mod?

using the ingame MCM, after the mod says "Devices cleaned up", IT'S STILL THERE holy shit

>mother of god delete the esp for christ's sake

after a long battle with sanguine's artifact, the beast is finally slain, the device banished from this realm

 

After this great battle I reinstalled the beta, because the current release is super buggy. Hopefully the beta gets ready for launch sooner than later, it is badly needed. I think most users would just ignore the artifact but i needed all devices removed for a special reason.

 

You may need to remove the old SD+ you are using, go into the game and make a save. Then quit the game and clean your save via a utility from the nexus that can remove redundant scripts from the save file. Then install beta 5 and go back into the game. This should solve the issue.

 

What has happened is the fault of the way the game makes save files. Each script you use is added to the save game and bakes it in, this means even if you update some mods or get rid of some the save game will still be calling on this redundant script. This can cause many problems from a save getting corrupted to a massive bloat of the save file.

 

I started a fresh game with beta 5 to make sure I wouldn't run into this problem.

[nutrigrain]

On 4/6/2018 at 11:13 AM, Heavenly_cloud said:

Well, apparently my PC is too powerful for "Spriggan Harmony". So "Flowering Spriggan" quest remains and doesn't end. Any help?

Just had this too-did you find out what was the cause, or find a workaround? Cheers.

(I've loaded from an earlier save now, so am not in the flowering spriggan questline-but while I was, I added the problematic spell "Spriggan Harmony" to see what it was-capped at lvl 10. Odd. I assume a conflict with a levelling mod of some kind.)

[Warlock3000]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:05 PM, DeepBlueFrog said:

Those should be already safe. 

 

Do you have an example I can test for?

OK, so now I'm not even sure that happened...

I was enslaved by SD+ two times already (one time with Defeat->Simple Slavery->SD+ (and then got claimed by another master who killed the first one), and the other time with Death Alternative->SD+), and both times nothing was removed from my inventory at all...

[Kilen]

sorry for english. I have a problem. I completed the quest "A night to remember". Then I froze to death (frostfall) and got into Dreamworld (Death Alternative). I talked to everyone, brought mead to Sanguine, but on a request to let go, he constantly refuses. What to do? By the way, when I arrived at dreamworld, he did not enslave me. The chain on the column is rusty and gives out a message that I'm stuck in this place

[Fuzzy_Fox]

13 hours ago, Kilen said:

sorry for english. I have a problem. I completed the quest "A night to remember". Then I froze to death (frostfall) and got into Dreamworld (Death Alternative). I talked to everyone, brought mead to Sanguine, but on a request to let go, he constantly refuses. What to do? By the way, when I arrived at dreamworld, he did not enslave me. The chain on the column is rusty and gives out a message that I'm stuck in this place

You may need to talk to the Alicias and the bloke in the cage. This should update the quest log and then ask Sanguine once more to leave. Sanguine will equip you with some bondage equipment and then teleport you out.

[Warlock3000]

...So how dangerous is it to upgrade to the Beta version of SD+ during a playthrough? Because I did. (I'm not worried about losing this particular playthrough, but still - just asking)

[Psalam]

Spoiler

Just now, Warlock3000 said:

...So how dangerous is it to upgrade to the Beta version of SD+ during a playthrough? Because I did. (I'm not worried about losing this particular playthrough, but still - just asking)

 

Just run a save cleaner afterward (like ReSaver).

[Kilen]

10 hours ago, Fuzzy_Fox said:

You may need to talk to the Alicias and the bloke in the cage. This should update the quest log and then ask Sanguine once more to leave. Sanguine will equip you with some bondage equipment and then teleport you out.

just like I said, I talked to everyone. Alicia near  the black glass does not speak, is this normal? what stage should be started, and what is the inscription in the task log?

[suckmycock1700]

On 9/24/2018 at 10:01 PM, suckmycock1700 said:

Sanguine's artifact is busted beyond belief

 

It was stuck on my character, there is no way to remove it. Here's what I have tried:

 

>asking court wizards

"Sorry I can't help you"

>Removing it by console?

Pfft, no way, I've tried it all unless someone has some secret new console command to try, It keept coming back. Why do DDs not have emergency pullout switches to get things off?

>Ask sanguine?

over 2 dozen attempts asking "can you remove these cursed chains" and he continues to insist that since he has just put them on, that  he will not remove them. I have waited a full in game day, left the dreamworld and come back, etc. no luck

>use the beta?

I updated to beta 5, if it actually fixes the problem, it won't help me because it seems that it doesn't update to the new version of the device script, because the court wizards and blacksmiths still do not help get it off

>uninstall the mod?

using the ingame MCM, after the mod says "Devices cleaned up", IT'S STILL THERE holy shit

>mother of god delete the esp for christ's sake

after a long battle with sanguine's artifact, the beast is finally slain, the device banished from this realm

 

After this great battle I reinstalled the beta, because the current release is super buggy. Hopefully the beta gets ready for launch sooner than later, it is badly needed. I think most users would just ignore the artifact but i needed all devices removed for a special reason.

 

Alright, I'm back with an even crazier story, it takes place right after this. You may want to be careful about upgrading to the beta. I have never seen a save file become this destroyed before. 

 

So, I cleaned my save and reinstalled SD beta 5. about 2 hours of playtime passed and everything was working great mostly. I was enslaved in soulstheim, and then sold off in skyrim and broke free from my new master. I decided to head off to sanguine's shrine to get my stuff back, that is when shit began to hit the fan.

 

On my walk to the shrine, I noticed something strange. I quicksave fairly often, but something was off. The saving was taking a very long time, 4-5x longer than usual. It wasn't really a gradual thing either, it just started happening. So I arrive at the dreamworld, grab my things, go to leave, etc. Things were still pretty normal overall.  I recieve a notification: "Your owner seems to have abandonded you". This is the shit nuke that destroyed skyrim. Suddenly, my fps drops below 1. You know that ENB setting called brute force mode that destroys your fps? Imagine that but 10x worse. I lagged over to a building to try to see what was happening. I checked my save file with save tool first. and found that my papyrus script size had grown from the usual 10 megabytes to a massive 40 megabytes (picture attatched for proof). This explained the long saving time. So I thought to myself, what the fuck. Time to get to the bottom of this.

 

I hadn't installed any mods lately other than SD, so I was instantly suspicious. I turned on papyrus logs and loaded the game. After a 10 minute loading screen, SD took a turbo shit in the papyrus logs. I've attatched the errors, they are basically the same thing over and over. This is what killed my fps. After a struggle, I got SD uninstalled and cleaned the save. The size has shrunk back to 10 meg and the lag is gone. I'll keep playing, and if anything like this happens again I'll report it here!

[DeepBlueFrog]

I highly recommend against running save game cleaners. 99% of the time, they have trashed my games.