Animal Research: The Insatiable Scholar

[ShivasBane]

I re-installed the mod and played through with no problems at all but this time I dismissed the dog right after the first warning about followers. I'm not sure why it didn't work the first time I tried it, must be something on my end. Thanks for the work you've put into this. It's been very entertaining so far.

[killer905]

12 hours ago, ShivasBane said:

Does the dog need to be dismissed before the giant scene? That scene stalled and refused to proceed for me. I ended up uninstalling this and reverting to a save made before installing this mod. I then tested my animations using other mods and they worked properly so the animations are not the problem. I like the mod and find Tirwin adorable. I may re-install the mod and see if it's a script engine overload by hitting the tilde key at scene start to give the script engine time to do it's job. It will take me a bit to get back to that point but I'll come back and let you know how it worked out.

 

6 hours ago, ShivasBane said:

I re-installed the mod and played through with no problems at all but this time I dismissed the dog right after the first warning about followers. I'm not sure why it didn't work the first time I tried it, must be something on my end. Thanks for the work you've put into this. It's been very entertaining so far.

There is no need to dismiss the dog, but it should be left alone outside the camp when PC and Tirwin reach it. 

[eflat01]

52 minutes ago, killer905 said:

 

There is no need to dismiss the dog, but it should be left alone outside the camp when PC and Tirwin reach it. 

 

Tirwin had Ragnar in tow the whole time when I test played through the new quests over and over, he does keep his distance...  He stayed away from the giants and the mammoths at the giant camp (I do not know if he's maybe sent to a marker during that quest? He does seem to go to the same spots every time.)... he also does not come into the troll cave nor interfered with any of the other quests really.

 

There was that one time during the horse quest when Ragnar raped the PC - Aroused Creatures did that. 

 

Edited September 20, 2024 by eflat01

[killer905]

21 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

 

Tirwin had Ragnar in tow the whole time when I test played through the new quests over and over, he does keep his distance...  He stayed away from the giants and the mammoths at the giant camp (I do not know if he's maybe sent to a marker during that quest? He does seem to go to the same spots every time.)... he also does not come into the troll cave nor interfered with any of the other quests really.

 

There was that one time during the horse quest when Ragnar raped the PC - Aroused Creatures did that. 

 

This is how it should be. Ragnar has his marker (Angi Camp, Deer, Horse, Trolls stays outside the cave,) so that there are no weird situations of him stepping on the back of a creature or PC/NPC for example. In the case of the Giant and Mammoth camp, it stays outside the camp, but the moment Tirwin finishes playing with the Mammoth, Ragnar moves next to the river.

[eflat01]

23 minutes ago, killer905 said:

This is how it should be. Ragnar has his marker (Angi Camp, Deer, Horse, Trolls stays outside the cave,) so that there are no weird situations of him stepping on the back of a creature or PC/NPC for example. In the case of the Giant and Mammoth camp, it stays outside the camp, but the moment Tirwin finishes playing with the Mammoth, Ragnar moves next to the river.

 

The one thing I will note is that we ran to the giant camp on each of the eight or so play-thru's of that quest (trying different dialog responses when any).  So approached from the south. I did not try a fast-travel to there nor approach from other directions.

[killer905]

46 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

 

The one thing I will note is that we ran to the giant camp on each of the eight or so play-thru's of that quest (trying different dialog responses when any).  So approached from the south. I did not try a fast-travel to there nor approach from other directions.

From other directions, the giant can attack you as long as it has not been considered. All in all, I didn't teleport to the area around the camp, but it should be far enough away from the camp to not get agro from them.

[sky6]

I loved this mod. It was a lot of fun. It worked great as well. Thank you very much!

[vjnmrf]

Is it possible to have a version without KSH? Integrating one hairstyle into a mod (if it's really that necessary) isn't too much of a problem.

[killer905]

2 hours ago, vjnmrf said:

Is it possible to have a version without KSH? Integrating one hairstyle into a mod (if it's really that necessary) isn't too much of a problem.

There are actually 3 hairstyles used in the mod. Personally, I've never done it, but apparently it is possible to remove the requirement of another mod. That is, the hair from KSH would stay on the 2 NPCs, but without the requirement to install KSH.

At the moment you have to wait for feedback from the co-author anyway

[eflat01]

4 hours ago, vjnmrf said:

Is it possible to have a version without KSH? Integrating one hairstyle into a mod (if it's really that necessary) isn't too much of a problem.

Sure, it's possible.

 

The would have to include the particular hair assets (meshes and textures) in the mod though. Some people seem to do that a lot with follower mods and such.

 

iow, they'll include once mesh/texture set from another mod with permission from the other mods author, some mod authors give blanket permission for credit mention up front. 

 

A mesh is a .nif file and points to the texture in another directory.

 

i.e. You'd put and point to the hair mesh in meshes/actor/character/Tirwin/hair and it's textures in textures/KS Hairdo's/HDT or wherever the original nif points to for texture. 

 

Personally, I can't tell what hair is what in my game because I used a mod which replaces all the vanilla hair with KSH SMP and then there are some npc replacers which replace the hair with their own hair they'd got from some other hair mod.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2024 by eflat01

[killer905]

36 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

Sure, it's possible.

 

The would have to include the particular hair assets (meshes and textures) in the mod though. Some people seem to do that a lot with follower mods and such.

 

iow, they'll include once mesh/texture set from another mod with permission from the other mods author, some mod authors give blanket permission for credit mention up front. 

 

A mesh is a .nif file and points to the texture in another directory.

 

i.e. You'd put and point to the hair mesh in meshes/actor/character/Tirwin/hair and it's textures in textures/KS Hairdo's/HDT or wherever the original nif points to for texture. 

 

Personally, I can't tell what hair is what in my game because I used a mod which replaces all the vanilla hair with KSH SMP and then there are some npc replacers which replace the hair with their own hair they'd got from some other hair mod.

 

 

What you have written is exactly what it looks like. But removing the ‘"KSH" requirement is more difficult than adding a new requirement.

[vjnmrf]

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

Sure, it's possible.

 

I know myself that it is possible. I even have a couple of mods with built-in KSH hairstyles for individual NPCs, but the mod itself is absolutely unnecessary for me.
The question was to the author of the mod, whether he will do this.
By the way, in the BB mod he did exactly this - integrated the collar with the ZAP properties.

[eflat01]

33 minutes ago, killer905 said:

What you have written is exactly what it looks like. But removing the ‘"KSH" requirement is more difficult than adding a new requirement.

 

Well of course it is, Aside from the directory structs, copy and pasting files, would may likely would have to load up CK replace the hair head parts on Tirwin and face gen her too to be sure. then there's making sure all the parts are in the distribution archive when packaging it up.

[killer905]

7 minutes ago, vjnmrf said:

I know myself that it is possible. I even have a couple of mods with built-in KSH hairstyles for individual NPCs, but the mod itself is absolutely unnecessary for me.
The question was to the author of the mod, whether he will do this.
By the way, in the BB mod he did exactly this - integrated the collar with the ZAP properties.

In my opinion, the fewer other mods required, the better. But here the co-author has to agree with this. Without this, we can only dream about it.

5 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

 

Well of course it is, Aside from the directory structs, copy and pasting files, would may likely would have to load up CK replace the hair head parts on Tirwin and face gen her too to be sure. then there's making sure all the parts are in the distribution archive when packaging it up.

Yes correct, but further the ‘requirement’ will remain even if the mod of itself no longer uses the KSH. In CK as far as I remember there is no such thing as select and delete the ‘requirement’ but you have to use TESVEDIT or other external programs. 

[eflat01]

29 minutes ago, vjnmrf said:

I know myself that it is possible. I even have a couple of mods with built-in KSH hairstyles for individual NPCs, but the mod itself is absolutely unnecessary for me.
The question was to the author of the mod, whether he will do this.
By the way, in the BB mod he did exactly this - integrated the collar with the ZAP properties.

 

The same conversation came up in his SLSFC mod but in reverse, someone wanted the mod to include more hair assets for npc's (Gristle's utilizing mostly base there). I mentioned I changed the npc's they were speaking of by hitting the base. 

 

I can't blame you for not wanting to scroll through one and a half million hair styles in racemenu etc... I surely dislike having to scroll through a ton of crap when it comes to crafting most of all. 

 

I tend to like flat out replacers, skypatcher and spid to get the results I want.  

Edited September 21, 2024 by eflat01

[eflat01]

37 minutes ago, killer905 said:

In my opinion, the fewer other mods required, the better. But here the co-author has to agree with this. Without this, we can only dream about it.

Yes correct, but further the ‘requirement’ will remain even if the mod of itself no longer uses the KSH. In CK as far as I remember there is no such thing as select and delete the ‘requirement’ but you have to use TESVEDIT or other external programs. 

 

Yep, did this in the past and is a pain... ie go into SeEdit, set the hair to the "new hair" added in a mod, or some base hair even, then remove (clean) unused masters. After that then would have to load it up into CK run a face gen, etc...

 

I'm terrible with nif's and stuff like that... even get myself into trouble with zaps and stuff... but I code all day long so is about the only place anyone could possibly take me seriously. 😉 

Edited September 21, 2024 by eflat01

[Gristle]

On 9/10/2024 at 6:53 PM, J377yC1971 said:

Every save I have where I met Tirwin,(and told her to wait) has not been able to get past the first book. We go through the  dungeon and get the first  book and I'm told to talk to her but then there is no option to proceed., What is the setstage for the first book. I know it will send me to Whiterun

The stage to be sent to Whiterun after finding the first book is "setstage VAR_Mainquest 50". 

[Gristle]

On 9/11/2024 at 11:49 AM, eflat01 said:

When I walked in the Banner Mare Tirwin and Ragnar were nowhere to be found, 

Perhaps you got there quicker than her? She should have been there - in whatever form (short hair or long hair) you left her. Anyway, glad the teleport spell worked.

[Gristle]

On 9/14/2024 at 10:04 AM, eflat01 said:

There was a hicup once when playing through The Peace Offering, Tirwin ran away coward due agro from a mammoth (the second mammoth in the area) but I think it was initially caused by some other mod or outside scenario interfering.

 

On 9/14/2024 at 11:00 AM, Unfrog12 said:

the same thing eflat01 reported, mammoth aggro to Tirwin/Ragnar wile my PC was engaged with the giant. It ceased when my PC finished with the giant.

 

There's a big trigger box covering the entire upper part of the giant camp (around the fire). When the PC enters this box, the PC and Tirwin (and the goat) are put into the GiantFaction. So, the giants and mammoths shouldn't aggro at that point (unless you have other followers). But this trigger box doesn't extend all the way down the hill to where the mammoths and the other giant is. So, if you approach from Rorikstead, or fast travel there, you should hit the trigger. But, if you somehow approach from the east, you could aggro the mammoths and giants.  

 

Also, when you hit that trigger box, Ragnar will wait outside the camp. (He waits just outside the upper camp at first, and then moves down on the far side of the stream after the Tirwin-giant sex.) So, Ragnar should stay far enough away not to start any fights.

 

To add to the fun, the vanilla game likes to spawn wolf attacks against the mammoths (dumb wolves!). This shouldn't be a problem. In my playtesting, my PC (in the Giant Faction) has jumped in and helped the mammoths fight the wolves several times, and they don't aggro my PC.

 

Maybe the problem is Ragnar. He's supposed to wait far enough away to not start fights, but combat involving others could be drawing him closer. I'll set him to ignore all combat during these stages in the next version.

 

 

[Gristle]

On 9/14/2024 at 11:00 AM, Unfrog12 said:

Oddly, after finishing the quest line, Tirwin doesn't want to wear clothes any more. I'm not objecting, mind...I just thought it somewhat odd.

Tirwin dresses on stage 280.  That stage is triggered when, after stream sex she goes to find Ragnar, and she (not the PC) hits a trigger box around where Ragnar is waiting. Stage 280 is also when you can ask where the next book is and she tells you that several are on Solstheim. Did you have that conversation? 

On 9/14/2024 at 11:00 AM, Unfrog12 said:

Oh, and Tirwin is quite fussy about where she'll engage Ragnar, she won't do it in Breezehome, for example. This may be by design, I dunno. Might be fun to corrupt her into doing it publicly.😁

I can't decide whether she should engage Ragnar in a player home. On the one hand, it's safe, but on the other hand, there are likely to be other people she doesn't know there (e.g., housecarls). I think maybe allow this at a later stage?

[Gristle]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:57 AM, Swagmeister. said:

I swear Tirvin casts candle light way more often then before, also wasn't there an option to tell her to stop casting it before? Or am I tweaking? I'll probably remove the spell via xedit, maybe consider such a dialogue toggle.

That's odd. I actually lowered the "light level" at which she will cast a light spell. It was 17 and I lowered it to 14. There hasn't been an option to tell her to stop. Also, she only casts light in dark interiors, not outside at night.  It is a problem that she casts light? I could lower the light threshold a bit more. I just wanted it to be useful in those locations where it was truly dark and hard to see.

[Gristle]

On 9/15/2024 at 12:05 PM, mathy7 said:

not sure how to fix this, but after tirwin finishes sex with each creature, she immediately redresses and the quest stage does not advance. I need to go look up each quest ID and manually set the stage to bring up the additional dialogue. Granted I had updated from a previous version on my active save and a new save does not have these issues.

She is supposed to stay naked after any creature sex from this mod, or at least until she force greets the PC with some conversation or comment. If you have P+ I think the issue is a mod update that was made to work better with P+ is not working except on new saves.

[Gristle]

On 9/19/2024 at 9:22 AM, mathy7 said:

Balazar's quests advance like normal with P+, though I don't know if it uses on scene end triggers or just advances at the start of each encounter. P+ has a legacy trigger mode which I use and it works with old mods.  Long hair tirwin definitely still exists and is referenced in quests when looking in xedit, maybe that's the problem? Patch notes suggest that she is just one actor now. FYI the quest stage 90 of the first quest (and the equivalent for the other quests) does not advance.

Balazar and this mod are both similar in that both detect the end of a Sexlab event so that stages (and thus actions) can be triggered at the end of the sex event. This is in contrast to, for example, the Markarth quest in SLSF Fame Comments, where the stage is advanced at the same time the Sexlab event is called. That works reliably, but lacks the ability to have anything happen at the end of a sex event.

 

In the case of Balazar, the mod tracks the PC's sex activity. In the case of this mod, the mod track's Tirwin's sex activity. This could be a notable difference for P+ because these use different commands.

 

To track Tirwin's sex activity, the following script is used to listen for the beginning of Tirwin's sex:

 

Event OnInit()
    SexLab.TrackActor(TirwinLH, "TirwinLHHook")
    RegisterForModEvent("TirwinLHHook_Start", "TirwinLHSexStart")
EndEvent

 

And then the following script is used to listen for the end of Tirwin's sex:

 

Event TirwinLHSexStart(Form FormRef, int tid)
    RegisterForModEvent("TirwinLHHook_End", "TirwinLHSexEnd")
EndEvent    

 

And then do whatever at the end of Tirwin's sex, taking care to again listen for the start of Tirwin's next sex:

 

Event TirwinLHSexEnd(Form FormRef, int tid)
    ;DO WHATEVER
    RegisterForModEvent("TirwinLHHook_Start", "TirwinLHSexStart")
EndEvent  
 

On the other hand, for the PC, Sexlab always tracks the PC, so you don't need to do "TrackActor" for the PC. So, the following script is used to listen for the beginning of the PC's sex:

 

event OnInit()
    RegisterForModEvent("PlayerAnimationStart", "PCSLDetect")
endEvent

 

Then the following script is used to listen for the end of the PC's sex:

 

event PCSLDetect(string eventName, string argString, float argNum, form sender)
    sslThreadController xThread = SexLab.HookController(argString)
    xThread.SetHook("SexEndHook")
    RegisterForModEvent("HookAnimationEnd_SexEndHook", "SexEndHandler")

endEvent
 

And then do whatever at the end of the PC's sex:

 

Event SexEndHandler(int tid, bool HasPlayer)

     ;DO WHATEVER

EndEvent
 

Perhaps someone familiar with P+ can explain why tracking the PC works fine but tracking an NPC has issues?

 

Also, long-hair Tirwin is actually the Tirwin that continues in the mod (with short-hair wig as needed).  Short-hair Tirwin goes away, but she is still in the mod because players who update after finishing the first three animals likely still have short-hair Tirwin enabled -- for at least a short time until the next conversation with her about books - and then the mod swaps her out.

 

[Gristle]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:07 PM, ShivasBane said:

Does the dog need to be dismissed before the giant scene? That scene stalled and refused to proceed for me. I ended up uninstalling this and reverting to a save made before installing this mod. I then tested my animations using other mods and they worked properly so the animations are not the problem. I like the mod and find Tirwin adorable. I may re-install the mod and see if it's a script engine overload by hitting the tilde key at scene start to give the script engine time to do it's job. It will take me a bit to get back to that point but I'll come back and let you know how it worked out.

No. Dog does not need to be dismissed. Once you approach the giants by the fire, the dog will hang back and wait. He eventually moves down by the stream as well, again waiting for Tirwin to come and get him. (This is all to prevent him from messing up the scenes.)  

 

If you have further issues, let me know exactly when the scene stops advancing.

[Gristle]

On 9/21/2024 at 2:58 AM, vjnmrf said:

Is it possible to have a version without KSH? Integrating one hairstyle into a mod (if it's really that necessary) isn't too much of a problem.

The KS Hair permissions allow this, and it is technically possible.

On 9/21/2024 at 8:52 AM, eflat01 said:

The same conversation came up in his SLSFC mod but in reverse, someone wanted the mod to include more hair assets for npc's (Gristle's utilizing mostly base there). I mentioned I changed the npc's they were speaking of by hitting the base. 

I actually tried to do this in SLSFC (for Lillian) but failed miserably.

On 9/21/2024 at 9:04 AM, eflat01 said:

Yep, did this in the past and is a pain... ie go into SeEdit, set the hair to the "new hair" added in a mod, or some base hair even, then remove (clean) unused masters. After that then would have to load it up into CK run a face gen, etc...

I tried to follow a tutorial on this but never could get it to work. Removing the master is no problem. I can do that in the CK as long as no references remain.

On 9/21/2024 at 9:04 AM, eflat01 said:

I'm terrible with nif's and stuff like that... even get myself into trouble with zaps and stuff... but I code all day long so is about the only place anyone could possibly take me seriously. 😉 

Me too. Terrible with the visual stuff. I've been able to bring in other modder's collars and tapestries and things like that (where permissions allow), but hair is a lot more complex than just a mesh and a texture. So, any help on this would be appreciated.