Animal Research: The Insatiable Scholar

[killer905]

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

 

Oh, I'm just saying of all the races in general attitude who appear to be self-absorbed, high and mighty and bigoted in general it's Altmer, even the altmer farmers tend to somehow seem to be speaking down to the DB even when being gracious - like a back-handed compliment. 🙂

 

You know, I typically build a female Nord DB most the time, and she normally marries a Nord female, usually Serana most the time unless I add in some other female with as much dialog and character in her. Dialog goes a long way, nobody wants a boring spouse. 😉

 

This is why I like mods in which they add new Spouses or lovers who have what personalities. Or adding new dialogues for the Vanillia Spouse matching the character.

[KentuckyExpat]

Still have two "Tirwins" so I guess you haven't made that change yet.

 

Is there some way to get Ragnar to back off? If I am in a narrow corridor inevitably he is right behind me so that when the corridor ends and I turn around he is right up against me and I CAN'T MOVE! Also, I'm having sex with Gilfre at Mixwater Mill and the damned dog is walking all over us, literally. Please! Find a new set of idles for the dog.

 

[The following is an observation, not a complaint] Tirwin really loves to run up against my back and then complain that I am trying to feel her ass or her tits. Now, feeling her ass or her tits is quite a delightful prospect but, given my "druthers", I would prefer to do either of those things while I am facing her. Of course, this might be a deliberate tease on her part, so...

[killer905]

1 hour ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Still have two "Tirwins" so I guess you haven't made that change yet.

One Tirwin will not be until the next update.

1 hour ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Is there some way to get Ragnar to back off? If I am in a narrow corridor inevitably he is right behind me so that when the corridor ends and I turn around he is right up against me and I CAN'T MOVE! Also, I'm having sex with Gilfre at Mixwater Mill and the damned dog is walking all over us, literally. Please! Find a new set of idles for the dog.

 

[The following is an observation, not a complaint] Tirwin really loves to run up against my back and then complain that I am trying to feel her ass or her tits. Now, feeling her ass or her tits is quite a delightful prospect but, given my "druthers", I would prefer to do either of those things while I am facing her. Of course, this might be a deliberate tease on her part, so...

These are things that will need to be improved. I hope @Gristlewill  to do so in a future update.

[GayZHot]

finished whats here of the mod so far, i like it, especially as i can play as a submissive male player

really need more male PCs submissive to beasts, tho kinda dissapoited there's not that many dailogue options to say that the PC likes animals and things like the kahjit caravan i feel could have a solution that involves the player character doing sex instead of just watching tirwin

 

but i like it and i hope there's gonna be more, way too rare to get zoophile focused quests that can be done as a male too

[eflat01]

20 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Still have two "Tirwins" so I guess you haven't made that change yet.

 

Is there some way to get Ragnar to back off? If I am in a narrow corridor inevitably he is right behind me so that when the corridor ends and I turn around he is right up against me and I CAN'T MOVE! Also, I'm having sex with Gilfre at Mixwater Mill and the damned dog is walking all over us, literally. Please! Find a new set of idles for the dog.

 

[The following is an observation, not a complaint] Tirwin really loves to run up against my back and then complain that I am trying to feel her ass or her tits. Now, feeling her ass or her tits is quite a delightful prospect but, given my "druthers", I would prefer to do either of those things while I am facing her. Of course, this might be a deliberate tease on her part, so...

The next release had not been posted yet, ver 1.64 was the last. 

 

The one thing I'm wondering is after playing through it, in the next release if is best to uninstall, clean save and install the new then run through the first few quests again. Given that the two npcs will be one, I'm not sure how relationship or dialog will be?

 

I've Tirwin hanging around the Bannered Mare since finishing what's available. (Funny since I've SLSFC she calls the DB dirty names due Beast rep like most npcs do, then again so does SLSFC's Evelyn even though she's a whore and screws her pet fox)

Edited August 24, 2024 by eflat01

[eflat01]

18 hours ago, killer905 said:

One Tirwin will not be until the next update.

These are things that will need to be improved. I hope @Gristlewill  to do so in a future update.

 

I did not realize we should had gone back and talked to Ria - I missed that I think - or I may had? - not sure, I thought we talked to her a second time time. Anyway, one mod I have installed is a version Radiant Prostitution and when it came to a Guest of Honor quest in that it got confused - Ria was the host. I'm not sure if this messed with her and I just talked to her for this quest then reset all the Radiant Prost quest via MCM and worked fine. 

Edited August 24, 2024 by eflat01

[Gristle]

44 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

The next release had not been posted yet, ver 1.64 was the last. 

 

The one thing I'm wondering is after playing through it, in the next release if is best to uninstall, clean save and install the new then run through the first few quests again. Given that the two npcs will be one, I'm not sure how relationship or dialog will be?

 

I've Tirwin hanging around the Bannered Mare since finishing what's available. (Funny since I've SLSFC she calls the DB dirty names due Beast rep like most npcs do, then again so does SLSFC's Evelyn even though she's a whore and screws her pet fox)

You won't need to restart the mod with the next version. There will still technically be two Tirwins in the mod, to support players continuing with either version of Tirwin, but if Tirwin is in the short-hair state when you continue the quest, the long-hair version (with a short-hair wig) will be swapped in as soon as you suggest to Tirwin to look for the next book. From that point on, only one version (the long-hair version) will be used, and she will swap to a short-hair wig as needed.

 

On the other hand, if you do start over, only one version will ever be used. 

 

As for SLSFC, Evelyn should cease all beast-related insults, and all insults in general, after you talk to her for the first time. 

[Gristle]

21 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Is there some way to get Ragnar to back off? If I am in a narrow corridor inevitably he is right behind me so that when the corridor ends and I turn around he is right up against me and I CAN'T MOVE! Also, I'm having sex with Gilfre at Mixwater Mill and the damned dog is walking all over us, literally. Please! Find a new set of idles for the dog.

Ragnar actually follows Tirwin, who in turn follows the PC, but I can increase his follow distance to Tirwin. Also, I'm working on a "bump" trigger, so that if the PC bumps into Ragnar he teleports a little bit directly away from the front of your PC. Hopefully, far enough away to clear a doorway or something, but no so far as to look jarring.

21 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

 

[The following is an observation, not a complaint] Tirwin really loves to run up against my back and then complain that I am trying to feel her ass or her tits. Now, feeling her ass or her tits is quite a delightful prospect but, given my "druthers", I would prefer to do either of those things while I am facing her. Of course, this might be a deliberate tease on her part, so...

There is a GetRelativeAngle condition, but I don't think that will help. Consider two cases: 1) (PC) O-> and (Tirwin) O-> and 2)  (PC) <-O and (Tirwin) <-O.  Both have the same relative angle, but who's touching what is very different. So, I could use this to detect front-to-front, but even that would have the same relative angle as back-to-back. 

 

There is also a GetLineOfSight condition. But this checks what the camera can see. So, if you are in first-person view (can't see your own ass) this will work, but I suspect most play in third-person view, and then you can see your own ass and this won't work. 

 

Maybe it's best to use the IsSmallBump condition? This can distinguish between a collision event at walking speed and one at faster speeds. If I conditioned the "bump" comments to require walking speed, it would presumably cut out those caused by Tirwin ramming you from behind when you come to a stop, but still allow the more casual bumps when in close contact.

[Gristle]

12 hours ago, GayZHot said:

finished whats here of the mod so far, i like it, especially as i can play as a submissive male player

really need more male PCs submissive to beasts, tho kinda dissapoited there's not that many dailogue options to say that the PC likes animals and things like the kahjit caravan i feel could have a solution that involves the player character doing sex instead of just watching tirwin

 

but i like it and i hope there's gonna be more, way too rare to get zoophile focused quests that can be done as a male too

The PC's participation is never required, but the PC has a sex option with each animal (via dialogue with Tirwin after her turn). Are you not seeing that? On the other hand, if you mean that an animal quest could optionally allow the PC to step in instead of Tirwin, I think that would take away a bit from the "Tirwin gains knowledge" aspect of the quest, and in particular would not work so well for the Khajiit event, as Ri'Saad is motivated by a desire to humble a High Elf because he has been insulted by them. It also would remove a bit of the (future) fun of trying to convince or help Tirwin build up the courage to tackle the more "unsavory" creatures. 

 

As for more "PC likes animals too" dialogue options, that's a good point. I agree those are a bit lacking as the quest progresses. Those are easy to add.

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

 

I did not realize we should had gone back and talked to Ria - I missed that I think - or I may had? - not sure, I thought we talked to her a second time time. Anyway, one mod I have installed is a version Radiant Prostitution and when it came to a Guest of Honor quest in that it got confused - Ria was the host. I'm not sure if this messed with her and I just talked to her for this quest then reset all the Radiant Prost quest via MCM and worked fine. 

You don't have to talk to Ria after the bear encounter. The post-bear Ria dialogue is there for immersion purposes, but it doesn't advance the quest in any way.

[eflat01]

31 minutes ago, Gristle said:

You don't have to talk to Ria after the bear encounter. The post-bear Ria dialogue is there for immersion purposes, but it doesn't advance the quest in any way.

Yes I kind of figured it was not needed since the quest completed. 

[MysticDaedra]

I see that FNIS is listed as a requirement, but does this mod actually add animations, or is that for the animations required by this mod to function properly?

[Gristle]

30 minutes ago, MysticDaedra said:

I see that FNIS is listed as a requirement, but does this mod actually add animations, or is that for the animations required by this mod to function properly?

The mod doesn't add any animations. I'm not exactly fully caught up on the latest animation mods, but my understanding was that you still needed FNIS to (at least) run creature animations.

[MysticDaedra]

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

The mod doesn't add any animations. I'm not exactly fully caught up on the latest animation mods, but my understanding was that you still needed FNIS to (at least) run creature animations.

Right, I meant I didn't need to re-run FNIS if I install this mod. You are correct, AFAIK currently FNIS is the only animation framework that allows creature animations.

[KentuckyExpat]

15 hours ago, Gristle said:

Ragnar actually follows Tirwin, who in turn follows the PC, but I can increase his follow distance to Tirwin. Also, I'm working on a "bump" trigger, so that if the PC bumps into Ragnar he teleports a little bit directly away from the front of your PC. Hopefully, far enough away to clear a doorway or something, but no so far as to look jarring.

There is a GetRelativeAngle condition, but I don't think that will help. Consider two cases: 1) (PC) O-> and (Tirwin) O-> and 2)  (PC) <-O and (Tirwin) <-O.  Both have the same relative angle, but who's touching what is very different. So, I could use this to detect front-to-front, but even that would have the same relative angle as back-to-back. 

 

There is also a GetLineOfSight condition. But this checks what the camera can see. So, if you are in first-person view (can't see your own ass) this will work, but I suspect most play in third-person view, and then you can see your own ass and this won't work. 

 

Maybe it's best to use the IsSmallBump condition? This can distinguish between a collision event at walking speed and one at faster speeds. If I conditioned the "bump" comments to require walking speed, it would presumably cut out those caused by Tirwin ramming you from behind when you come to a stop, but still allow the more casual bumps when in close contact.

Yes, that sounds like it might work. BTW there is a mod, "Ideal NPC Bumping" https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106256 that might be useful to achieve the same effect.

 

Actually, I mostly play in first person. I find it to be more immersive, and I could never get the hang of third person combat. Felt odd.

 

The bumping by Tirwin isn't a problem, I was just wondering if it was part of a series of actions leading to more intimate interactions.

 

Not to sound critical but it would be nice if the AI voicing sounded more natural. As it is now, when Tirwin says, "Are you trying to feel my tits", there is no way to distinguish between whether she is complaining or inviting the PC's behavior. I've seen a few mods where the author has managed that. One such is "Lyssia (fully voiced follower and quest)" https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/92898. She has a very clear upper-class British accent and to listen to her is indistinguishable from hearing a voice actress do the same performance.

[killer905]

32 minutes ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Not to sound critical but it would be nice if the AI voicing sounded more natural. As it is now, when Tirwin says, "Are you trying to feel my tits", there is no way to distinguish between whether she is complaining or inviting the PC's behavior. I've seen a few mods where the author has managed that. One such is "Lyssia (fully voiced follower and quest)" https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/92898. She has a very clear upper-class British accent and to listen to her is indistinguishable from hearing a voice actress do the same performance.

Mhmm, I personally haven't seen any AI Voice other than ElevenLab or xVASynth. And as far as I remember none of them offer a ‘simple’ way that e.g. this dialogue has to be spoken in a complaining, shouting, moaning etc. way. The author of Lyssia could have used a paid AI Voice solution. For obvious reasons we have to use their free solution.

[KentuckyExpat]

1 hour ago, killer905 said:

Mhmm, I personally haven't seen any AI Voice other than ElevenLab or xVASynth. And as far as I remember none of them offer a ‘simple’ way that e.g. this dialogue has to be spoken in a complaining, shouting, moaning etc. way. The author of Lyssia could have used a paid AI Voice solution. For obvious reasons we have to use their free solution.

Based on a cursory review of the posts associated with the mod, the AI voice is from ElevenLabs

[eflat01]

2 hours ago, killer905 said:

Mhmm, I personally haven't seen any AI Voice other than ElevenLab or xVASynth. And as far as I remember none of them offer a ‘simple’ way that e.g. this dialogue has to be spoken in a complaining, shouting, moaning etc. way. The author of Lyssia could have used a paid AI Voice solution. For obvious reasons we have to use their free solution.

Not that anyone's really interested but, one solution is to use phonetics to correct both pronunciation and inflection (of course that entails writing out every line phonetically to match the text when generated). When it comes to use of Ai it's based upon learning, in particular Deep Learning which is used to mimic human characteristics, is used for art, music, speech, etc... - the more models to derive from the more accurate the results - of course said models are also prone to error. There's an old saying in IT - garbage in garbage out. 

Edited August 25, 2024 by eflat01

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, eflat01 said:

Not that anyone's really interested but, one solution is to use phonetics to correct both pronunciation and inflection (of course that entails writing out every line phonetically to match the text when generated). When it comes to use of Ai it's based upon learning, in particular Deep Learning which is used to mimic human characteristics, is used for art, music, speech, etc... - the more models to derive from the more accurate the results - of course said models are also prone to error. There's an old saying in IT - garbage in garbage out. 

I actually find the pronunciation in the xVASynth voices in this mod pretty good. To my ear, the problem is more in the flat pitch and flat volume and lack of pauses. It's hard to convey emotion (and sometimes meaning, without these.) I know you can add commas for pauses, but is there some way to indicate desired changes in volume and pitch? 

[eflat01]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:28 PM, Gristle said:

I actually find the pronunciation in the xVASynth voices in this mod pretty good. To my ear, the problem is more in the flat pitch and flat volume and lack of pauses. It's hard to convey emotion (and sometimes meaning, without these.) I know you can add commas for pauses, but is there some way to indicate desired changes in volume and pitch? 

 

I'm sure xVASynth is based upon samples just like any other text to voice and pays attention to the punctuation with the sample to apply pitch inflection and tone, I work with AI quite a bit but on the data end of things typically - predictions - and code generation not audio and images. In any case ai really comes down to the number data samples used, the more the better. 

 

Anyway, waiting patiently for the next release. 🙂 

[kkiiees]

Can somebody help me, the two elf just stand still and don't talk or do anything

[Gristle]

11 minutes ago, kkiiees said:

Can somebody help me, the two elf just stand still and don't talk or do anything

The "scene" is not starting for some reason. Perhaps another scene is running somewhere (or stuck, uncompleted)? Do you have Aroused Creatures? It has an MCM option that tells you the current scene. 

[kkiiees]

11 hours ago, Gristle said:

The "scene" is not starting for some reason. Perhaps another scene is running somewhere (or stuck, uncompleted)? Do you have Aroused Creatures? It has an MCM option that tells you the current scene. 

unfortunately, no

[Gristle]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:20 AM, KentuckyExpat said:

The bumping by Tirwin isn't a problem, I was just wondering if it was part of a series of actions leading to more intimate interactions.

No. But her "bump" dialogue does change in character to reflect your prior "intimate interactions" with her.

[Bing9889]

Reading that there will only be "one" Tirwin in the next update sounds good. Would it be possible to have an option where we can give her gear to wear like regular followers?