Angrim's Apprentice (Feb-10-2016)

[stobor]

There isn't a simple trigger, but a combination of several separate random inputs: the AI packages on the warlock and ghost, and the random chances of wriggling loose of the armbinder (in the intervals available).  The AI behavior is suspended during animations, so the two actors are not really in sync, schedule-wise; it can get a bit unpredictable.  If you're curious about the technical details, just look in the CK.

 

There's one extremely reliable way to escape: flee the dungeon and then worry about struggling free.  Just watch out for the nearby dragon.

[trixie81]

Cheers. Just idle curiosity really as I couldn't grok the logic of it.

[Sacremas]

A scripted takedown by a two-bit necromancer like Arondil, unresistable in any way, when I accidentally one-shotted Arondil with one spell on my way in? And then reloaded, surrendered to get past the scene, and had my summon kill him anyway solo?

 

This is the last time I uninstall this mod. It had so much potential, especially with me playing a succubus but really? This is just plain embarrasing.

[cold burn]

A scripted takedown by a two-bit necromancer like Arondil, unresistable in any way, when I accidentally one-shotted Arondil with one spell on my way in? And then reloaded, surrendered to get past the scene, and had my summon kill him anyway solo?

 

This is the last time I uninstall this mod. It had so much potential, especially with me playing a succubus but really? This is just plain embarrasing.

Dude? what the hell. Ignoring your insulting, entitled tone- the Very First post said this was intended for lower-level characters. It went on to say that there was nothing stopping an Arch-Mage or similar but that it was intended for early in the game.  That said- Angrim is an Illusionist- all the spells he teaches you are from that school. I suppose unlike every, single other wizard he can actually affect you with it.

[Sacremas]

I am a lower level character, I still one-shotted him. I've been following the mod up until then, going by Markarth and the Temple to get the blessing got me to level 30, which atogether is still fairly low. I just started the college of winterhold. And yeah if that was Angrim in there then sure, but it was Arondil, who I had to go look for due to another quest, and he did a constant scripted takedown that broke each of the four times I tried? Scene just froze up entirely with me kneeling. And seriously follow Sanguine's Debauchery on that, make it a combat defeat, make him scale something like x8 your level with hand-picked perks and spells so he'll actually take you down, scripted takedowns are just lazy, and scripted takedowns that break every time I try to do it to get past the scene? That's a lot worse.

Tried the following;

Went in and killed him, when I stepped down I got trapped in kneeling.

Reloaded, sheathed my spells and ran in and surrendered, got trapped in kneeling, he was standing, my summon (Forgotten Magic Deathguard) promptly killed all his minions and him.

Reloaded, killed my summon, went in and surrendered, he sat down in the throne, he did nothing.

Reloaded, got rid of all of my spell effects, stripped naked, ran in and practically begged him to do anything. He bugged out and just stood there.

Uninstalled mod, went in naked, punched him to death, he panicked and cowered and cried for mercy once he'd spent all his magicka on misfires. Felt good. I'm playing on Legendary with High Level Enemies and ASIS and vanilla combat system, he's still a wuss not worth a takedown.

 

Scripted takedowns I've been into before, it happens in Sex Slaves mod several times, but then there's actual good scripts that has a scene that follows. This just broke everything and cut off the whole scene. I checked my log and no stackdumps or anything that could have stopped a scripted scene, and I run through similar scenes in Sex Slaves without effort.

 

Further more, on experimenting now I just found that whenever I have Anrgim's Apprentice installed, Showracemenu doesn't allow me to pick almost any of my hairs or eyes, just the ones default to my succubus race, no Apachii, no SG, no KS, no Eyes of Beauty, no Runic Eyes. Remove that one mod, and all my hairs and eyes are available for choosing. Reinstall the mod, same thing. Nothing else changed at all. I have absolutely no idea what you could have done to break something like that. I don't even know how it can be possible.

 

Like I said before, I was disappointed as hell because I've followed this mod since way before Devious was even a requirement (installed that specifically for this mod). I've had it installed before. The thrall thing kinda don't work most of the time, but that could be due to my AI mods conflicting. I can use other sexlab mods to turn people into followers and slaves with 100 % chance, currently followed by a elder giant berserker.  Drain, well Deadly Drain and Succubus Heart does that much better. The buff from sex is nice, but again Succubus Heart does it better. And the buff is real tiny.

Thing is I like the idea of the mod very much, the whole dark apprenticeship and so on, I wished for such a mod for a long time in fact. This just... works really poorly in comparison with every other mod (sexlab related) that go into the same things (slavery, rape, succubus magic, hypnotism, bondage, etc).

[Sacremas]

Yngvild is very difficult to get through without triggering the Hungry Ghost ending. A sneaky character who can kill most of the ghosts without being hit might be able to do it. Otherwise, the player character is almost sure to get captured and delivered to Arondil. As a ghost under Arondil's command, you will be able to move about, but not interact with the world (no speaking, no picking things up, etc.) unless he permits it. Except for brief periods when Arondil is distracted by sex.

 

During those brief periods, you might be able to kill Arondil, but the easiest solution is to grab the soul gem from the pedestal and then join your fellow ghosts in tearing him to pieces.

 

If available, this scenario uses the Dwemer Machine animation (Estrus Chaurus+) and the Zaz OTK Spanking (Non-SexLab Animation Pack) at appropriate points. So those mods are recommended if you take this quest.

 

See if that worked the way it's supposed to it sounds like an awesome idea, a lot of fun. However the ghosts aren't capable of taking me to Arondil, and once I*m auto-captured nothing happens, I don't become a ghost or antyhing like that.

 

Okay, reeling back a bit here... what was supposed to happen in that scene? What could have conflicted that you know of that could have been on my end, like ASIS, different AI packages, etc? I run a TES5Merged patch, but when I took Angrim's out of my load order I didn't have to redo the patch, so none of it's changes was in my game. Could that have been it, the patch overwriting things? That might also in that case explain why the spells don't work. Do you have a list of incompatible mods, load order, anything like that? Like I know Amorous for example breaks entirely if it's not one of the very last mods loaded, would this be the same?

 

Also while at it the Hair issue, does anyone have any idea why that could happen? Race interactions, etc? I'm using Uglykidcid's Angelic Succubus race, not the Nikitaa or PSQ ones. Going to open up in TES5Edit and look around, it's just weird. Also to be sure it's not mod conflict, do a 10 mod load in LAL cell, just hairs, angrim's and dependencies. If it still happens... I have no idea what could even cause such a problem, but I've seen it on three separate profiles with Angrim's now.

[Sacremas]

Nope, the hair thing must be some other conflict, in the LAL cell on 30 mods I can change hairs and everything just fine. I have no idea what could break that. But Angrim's isn't it, it's just weird when I took that specificlaly out the problem vanished, and I know I'm not overloaded on mods.

 

I did notice LOOT put Angrim near the very bottom of my load order however, I had it much higher, that might cause some of the issues.

 

Looking at it in TES5Edit you don't have any race changes that could have caused it either. That's one up on Sex Slaves of course, that includes race edits to give new hair colors that override all other race changes and needs special handling due to it.

 

I'm going to try this one last time to make sure the problem wasn't on my end. I'll keep Papyrus logging turned on, this time make sure to dispel everything I have, destroy my contingencies etc, and be naked with no summon. From the description it looks like it's the ghosts that's supposed to do the capture. I'll focus on her then and make sure I don't kill her. I've already killed all the other ghosts however, because I thought they were the vanilla ghosts.

[Sacremas]

Never mind, I'm such a fucking asshole. Sorry, I've been up for a couple of days, tests the nerves. It's the only excuse I have.

 

Reloading with Angrim placed even below my ASIS Skyproc patcher and doing what I said, getting rid of everything, dressing naked, and so on led to the scene progressing perfectly. And I don't have the hair issue either as far as I can tell. I feel like such a jerk.

So yeah, seems like Angrim's Apprentice needs some special care in load order to work properly, or has mod conflic tchances. Some mod was conflicting with it at least it had to be, as the scene didn't progress. Likewise the ghosts elsewhere were unable to capture me at all like described.

 

I have to say by the way, that while Arondil may be a bit of a loser for something like that, he's a fairly well picked loser. That story in the vanilla game with him enslaving the ghosts of the village girls, probably some of the most twisted shit in the vanilla game, you'd have to go up to Coldharbour's Daughter ritual to compare. And if it's the ghosts doing the capturing then yeah maybe, I can get behind that. Like I said I've been into scripted scenes in other mods, it's annoying as hell because I really don't like them and I get short-tempered due to them, but as long as they have a purpose and the scene actually works, I can roll with it.

 

Incidentally... these problems may be due to me skipping some steps in the quest. I lockpicked Angrim's chest and stole the tome first time I was down there (rule one of adventuring, steal everything not nailed down, rule two, get a crowbar for the rest), if there were supposed to be some sort of quest or interraction from Angrim where he sets it up, that might sell the whole deal with the captures more easily for me. But in that case a suggestion that the chest be quest locked and need a key to keep from skipping stages. I can pick a master key with 15 lockpick without any issue, so sealing it that way doesn't work if it's supposed to be quest/script locked.

I'm going to retry the thrall issue as well with Angrim all the way down the load order. Maybe that will work better. For the drain however... well this mod already has a lot of dependencies, how about making either Succubus Heart (previously Dragon from Succubus Valley) or Deadly Drain requirements as well? Then maybe have the spells instead be meant to support whichever of those you pick, give more of a boost from drains maybe? Something to keep in mind. Although to be fair at this point with my shit and the stuff above (that I'm just leaving in there without editing out to make it clear what an ass I was) I can understand if you'd rather not take suggestions from me...

[stobor]

I'm not aware of a single actual mod conflict, so I'm somewhat taken aback by your experience - and attitude.  You are literally the first person who's reported a functional problem with those scripted captures in the month or more since the 2.0 version.  If in fact you have one, which isn't entirely clear from that screed.  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, since I know your work somewhat from elsewhere on LL, otherwise I'd write you off as a troll.

 

I used scripted captures for those scenarios (and for the latest one in Devious Cidhna) precisely because relying on more realistic combat scenarios in Skryim (even something like SL Defeat) is such a crapshoot.  If you have constructive suggestions for a better way to intro the scene, I'm all ears.

 

I might consider Deadly Drain, though more likely as an optional dependency.  The one time I tested it, I had serious performance issues with that save ever after, but I haven't looked into it more closely (could be a coincidental issue with another mod).

Oh, and ordinarily I don't make it a third of the way through the outer zone of Yngvild without being taken down by one of the ghosts (unless I use a high level character who can one-shot them).  So there may be some built-in assumptions about the conditions once you reach Arondil.

[Sacremas]

I'm not aware of a single actual mod conflict, so I'm somewhat taken aback by your experience - and attitude.  You are literally the first person who's reported a functional problem with those scripted captures in the month or more since the 2.0 version.  If in fact you have one, which isn't entirely clear from that screed.  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, since I know your work somewhat from elsewhere on LL, otherwise I'd write you off as a troll.

You know, I would actually be totally okay with you writing me off as a troll at this point because that was trollish behaviour I have to say. I'm going to play around and see if I can replicate the issue I had by placing Angrim further up in the load order, try to find out what's conflicing. Least i can do at this point. Well after I get some sleep at least.

 

Like I said i'm level 30 because I'm a bit of a completionist and I have a TON of quest mods I want to get through. I'm level 30 in a little over two days worth of playing as well, my advancement and general power-gamerness contributes to it, so for me this is low level still. As this is a mage playthrough (hence apprentice) I'm also using the big magic mods, Mighty Magick, Apocalypse, Dwemertech, Spectraverse, Forgotten Magic. I had a problem with another mod related to Deadly Drain that more or less forced me to become a vampire sooner than I was planning to, so I'm a vampire succubus necromancer with very good gear (power gamer) and spells. As such the ghosts never stood much of a chance. I can one-shot their boss, they on the other hand panicks for some reason after making one attack on me if they're able to, they just run up, cut me, then go "please don't hurt me" and run away, then repeat. If that one cut was meant to capture me then it's a mod conflict, something's preventing the capture.

 

However once I get to the throne room the capture is near guarantee, in the first time I tried my spells (various area attacks) took out everyone, ghosts and mage, I went down into main area and I got stuck in kneeling position with nothing happening. I reloaded and this time didn't attack, just ran down, got captured but my Forgotten Magic tank summon killed everyone anyway (I'm geared towards deadly dragons with +300 % everything and up to three dragon priests at the same time from Asis) leaving me trapped again. I reloaded, killed my summon and ran in to get taken, but still nothing. At this point that may be due to the active spells and auto spells (Apocalypse's Ocato's Recital), but I doubt it. Probably the same whatever was keeping the ghosts from capturing me.

 

Reinstalling the mod and leaving it as the absolute last mod, then killing the summon, dispelling Ocato's, getting all naked and running in did it. With no Ocato I wasn't exaclty able to punch everyone to death either on Legendary+Asis, Death Alternative triggered before I got captured but the capture ended the bleedout so worked well.  At this point Arondil started talking almost instantly, and I realized how much in error I was, quit, and came back here, I'm presuming that the quest will go well later on.

 

I'm going to do some tests tomorrow and try to replicate this issue as said. Maybe replicate the weird-ass hair thing as well and try to figure out what caused it. I have absolutely no idea what could have caused that, but it's happened on three other installs earlier with mods like Sanguine's, DD and Angrims, racemenu gets totally borked, in this case I removed only Angrims in order to get past that scene and finish the vanilla quest, and my racemenu suddenly worked fine again, so I did the assume thing and you know how that saying goes.

[Sacremas]

As for the scripted takedown I don't have anything constructive to add. I was going to suggest you do like in Dragon Age Origins Awakening when the Architech captures you... except that's exactly the same thing with just more resources available to the authors. It's meant for low-level play as indicated so something like a weakening trap as you entered would be pointless, because by default you shouldn't need to be weakend. Maybe do something with Arngrim, like having him set you up for it, point you in dialogue towards Yngvild (if he doesn't already, as said I may have skipped that) and then giving you a special version of that sex magic spell to send you off. Capture then is a bit more guaranteed perhaps, maybe something like a scene where you drop down to knees helpless (staggered animation) then suddenly a ton of ghosts converge on you, you black out and next thing is you're sitting in front of Arondil. That would get around the level issue. Once finished with the quest you return to Anrgrim, ask him what the hell that was and he replies it was a test, to see if you had what it took, if you couldn't outsmart Arondil and get around the trap, then you weren't worty of being his apprentice. And besides, he owed money to Arondil, this would have been a way to get rid of the debt one way or the other...

[stobor]

Sounds to me like one of the defensive effects of FMR's Phantom Shroud... which shouldn't technically affect ghosts, but Bethesda neglected to make these ghosts flagged as undead.  Or it could be any other fear effect.  Anyway, it isn't a guaranteed take-down, since I wanted the quest to be beatable for players who would prefer to avoid the 'Hungry Ghost' ending.  Just a percentage chance per hit by a ghost.  And if the ghosts aren't sticking around to fight, that would explain why it isn't triggering.

[krighaur]

About the low-level ... Angrim suit me perfectly as it is actually.

 

I don't like high level PC, so I play with mods reducing the experience gain : erso and slow skill leveling. With these after many days of playing (char started 23/02 and around 3-4 hours play per day) I am level 24. So I would not say 30 is low level.

 

Different playing style ... different appreciation of mods

 

 

[Sacremas]

Okay, even with the dialogue activating I still can't get Arondil to do anything. He just repeats the "don't bother trying to move" up until he's supposed to soultrap me, then he repeats it. Here's the Papyrus log;

 

 

[03/17/2015 - 09:20:31PM] Have actors to check
[03/17/2015 - 09:20:31PM] SEXLAB - Arondil Stats Seed: Sexuality[60] Foreplay[21] Vaginal[28] Anal[35] Oral[36] Pure[65] Lewd[390]
[03/17/2015 - 09:20:31PM] [slainternalscr <sla_Internal (17083137)>]: Arondil got 8 exposure for  seeing naked Alissandra
[03/17/2015 - 09:20:32PM] slaScanner end time is ....330.855011
[03/17/2015 - 09:21:11PM] VM is freezing...
[03/17/2015 - 09:21:11PM] VM is frozen
[03/17/2015 - 09:21:12PM] Log closed

 

 

As you can see, nothing from Arondil other than Aroused, and no stack dumps that could cause the scene to fail. He's affected by various mods to give him new clothes, an AI package, perks and spells, but given that it worked up to the dialogue must be something blocking. Angrim's Apprentice is only before Live Another lIfe and merge patches/SUM patches this time. COuld it be because I'm a vampire or non-standard race?

[stobor]

Have you tried talking to him?  He's right there, you don't need to be able to move about.

[Sacremas]

Aaah! I thought it would auto-run like most such scenes. I'm used to not being able to do anything in such scenes, evidenced by the fact that I could toggle sexlab free cam with num3 button.

 

Actually acting on my own in such scenes? Preposterous!

[stobor]

Beyond that point...

 

 

After the initial scene, you can move about (but not activate anything, so no going through doors).  Except for a brief period (slightly longer with each repeat) after an animation; you regain corporeal form briefly, but cannot sustain it because Arondil's spells are draining your will.  If you grab the soul gem in one of those brief periods, you should regain full control, and you can join the other ghosts in tearing Arondil apart.

 

Note, the ghost effect is currently permanent (with the ability to switch at will for 8 game hours after sex).

 

 

[Sacremas]

Thanks, I already figured out that part and got past the scene. It was actually very good! This was something else than I was expecting, but a scripted scene with actual interaction where you have to think to figure out how to get out of it, as opposed to just getting out after a duration (which Sex Slaves unfortunately do too much of)? That was actually very fun. Once the scene was working (which was entirely my fault) it was a very enjoyable scene, I liked it a lot, it's got a rape and a revenge scene after, and even got a power out of it.

 

However... I now have the hair issue again. Damn if I know how it happens, but if I try to take out Angrim's I can change around on my hairs again, but honestly that may be just because it changes load orders or something else unrelated.

[PubliusNV]

It has been a while since I tested that ending, but as I recall that effect should have been dispelled.  I'll check.

 

Doing a player.removespell on it should fix it.

 

Was out of town for the weekend, just now got a chance to try that.  It worked, thanks!

 

[stobor]

Damned if I know what could cause side-effects on hairs; the mod only contains appearance info for its own NPCs (Angrim, two Dremora), it doesn't alter any vanilla ones.

 

The only vaguely similar symptom I've ever encountered was with an apparent conflict between two custom races (Lunari, Drow), where anytime I updated the Lunari mod the Drow presets would all default to the same hair (until I uninstalled and reinstalled the Drow race).  That was a flaky problem, but I haven't seen it in months.

[Sacremas]

I got the dremora summon after I slept, but she vanished soon, I think some of the Dragonborn cultists killed her. I'm also turning ghostly, was fun to see that vanish when I had sex, needing sexy to sustain a corporeal form is an interesting twist. Angrim won't talk about anything other than the "Master Angrim?" line, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

 

I also tried to get captured by Sid the Necromancer, I fel into his trap and waited and waited, but he just went through his vanilla things and then he became agressive, opened the door for me and tried to attack me. Which set off ocato and he he died badly. Obviously that scene didn't work as it should, and it couldn't be load order this time.

[PubliusNV]

Before the latest major revision of the mod, there were 3 possible endings (if I'm remembering correctly), that all took place in Angrim's basement.  One turned you into a succubus, one into a hungry ghost, and in the last one you turned Angrim into your thrall.  In the latest version these endings are all still possible, but they now take place in different places.  If your character has already been turned into a ghost, it might be that the other endings are disabled, which might explain the vanilla behavior of Sid.

[stobor]

Yes, the 'Hungry Ghost' ending forecloses the others, just as it did in version 1.x.  That might change, if I ever get around to adding a 'cure' quest along the lines of the vampire cure in the vanilla game.

[Sacremas]

Aha, if I'm locked to this and it's uncurable for now I think I have to reload an earlier save. If I'm not restarting the whole game, I may have to do that to fix my damn hair issue anyway, which just as easily can be from script conflicts left-over in the save.

[BringtheNoise]

 

Note: Image is just for Shitz and Gigglez cause I thought it was cool seeing the SOS cock go balls deep!!!

 

 

 

Issue: I recently upgraded xpmse from 2.43 to 2.5 and that adjusted my load order (the update moved the esp's to the bottom then I moved them back via nmm to close to where they were originally).

 

Now When I pull up Racemenu on my current save I only have 7 or so hair options for the race I was using when I got ghosted in the latest build of AA.

 

If I change to  a different race I get all of the 700 plus hair options (KS 400, Apachi, SG's as well).

 

If I start a new game and choose the race that is borked in my current save I get the 700 plus hair options.

 

Currently AA is near the bottom of my load order (was loading it just to test the latest update).

 

Character race in my current play thru is Angelic Temptress Succubus.

 

Oh and RM is the latest version.

 

So I guess that makes 2 that have an issue with hair after adjusting there load oder and running AA.

 

 

 

 

Oh and please add in a quest to remove the ghosting affect. It is cool, but I don't want it to be permanent.