SexLab Defeat

[Roggvir]

Holly shit! What the hell is even in that LRG patch???
The MCM menu script has 9000 lines!!! 464 kB script!
WHAT IS THIS INSANITY???
I do not have the vocabulary to describe the face i am making now.
I have never ever in my life saw a more horrid disgusting stupid nonsensical abomination than that script.
WHYYYYYYY.

Anyway, that solved my problem, whatever that "LRG" patch is, it's not for me

Edited October 26, 2025 by Roggvir

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Roggvir said:

that LRG patch

It's for Dynamic Defeat, offering a different mechanic for determining when the PC is defeated.  It's fairly popular.  AndrewLRG has contributed a lot to the community.  It's good to encourage each other, or at least not discourage.  I'm guessing that your wording came out more negative than intended.  Anyway, that's the purpose of the patch.

[Roggvir]

11 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

It's for Dynamic Defeat, offering a different mechanic for determining when the PC is defeated.  It's fairly popular.  AndrewLRG has contributed a lot to the community.  It's good to encourage each other, or at least not discourage.  I'm guessing that your wording came out more negative than intended.  Anyway, that's the purpose of the patch.

I don't mean to be mean to Andrew, but of course i am negative about it, have you looked at the source file???
On one hand, hats off to Andrew for having the tenacity to write something like that, but at the same time... it is a horrible implementation.

I still don't understand what is it supposed to do.
A "different mechanic for determining when the PC is defeated" doesn't explain anything.
But no matter what, i cannot fathom why anything would require a 9010 lines just for a freaking MCM config.

Anyway, i am still curious about what that patch is supposed to do, so i would appreciate some more detailed explanation - i'd like to know what am i missing on.
(and forgive me for not going to even try deciphering that from those script sources)

[Roggvir]

Don't get me wrong, i am all about encouraging others - what i wrote is an encouragement to do better.
If i see something bad, i will say that it is bad - i am not insulting anybody, i am just saying that the thing is freakishly bad.
That way, somebody who maybe didn't know better, can realize they did bad and think about how to make it better.
 

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, Roggvir said:

I don't mean to be mean to Andrew, but of course i am negative about it, have you looked at the source file???
On one hand, hats off to Andrew for having the tenacity to write something like that, but at the same time... it is a horrible implementation.

I still don't understand what is it supposed to do.
A "different mechanic for determining when the PC is defeated" doesn't explain anything.
But no matter what, i cannot fathom why anything would require a 9010 lines just for a freaking MCM config.

Anyway, i am still curious about what that patch is supposed to do, so i would appreciate some more detailed explanation - i'd like to know what am i missing on.
(and forgive me for not going to even try deciphering that from those script sources)

 

I'm not a modder, but am intrigued by your commennts.  I've been using his addon for ages, and am very happy with what it adds to gameplay

 

Assuming that we are talking about the same thing - and not the addditioanl changes he added as a later optional version, which don't seem to work quite as well as hoped - have you actually installed his patch and looked at the expansion of the 'knock down' functionality, where different types of attacks have differing hit values, and can be adjusted to match your own preferred type of play?  I'm pretty sure that the conditional variations involved are going to be quite complex, and required a lot of thought and effort to make them function as well as they do. 

 

Not to mention the addditional post defeat functionality and the extent to which it is also user definable

 

What you said about the code volume doesn't surprise me

 

DQW 

[Roggvir]

31 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

Assuming that we are talking about the same thing - and not the addditioanl changes he added as a later optional version, which don't seem to work quite as well as hoped - have you actually installed his patch and looked at the expansion of the 'knock down' functionality, where different types of attacks have differing hit values, and can be adjusted to match your own preferred type of play?  I'm pretty sure that the conditional variations involved are going to be quite complex, and required a lot of thought and effort to make them function as well as they do.

I never used that batch before, but had it installed this time to see what it adds.
And that is what prompted me to ask here what's up with those patches, because for some reason, in my game the Defeat was completely broken with that patch.
Then i wanted to start troubleshooting, so i looked inside the patch and... you know my reaction to what i saw 

I cannot speak of what the patch does when it works.
It may be amazing, and doing some cool stuff, i don't know.

But yeah, i think part of what horrified me, was related to the attacks and hit values - i recall seeing a lot of repeated string concatenations having to do with attack values.
It surely required a lot of effort to type in all that stuff, but the implementation was clearly not given much thought.
9000 lines of code just for an MCM config? (and there is another MCM script half that size, that i didn't even look at).
Sure, the original Defeat's code is also very often not pleasant to look at, but that LRG patch takes it to absurd levels.

[Roggvir]

1 hour ago, DonQuiWho said:

Assuming that we are talking about the same thing

i am talking about the "Dynamic Defeat LRG Patch V1.6.3 (for Defeat Version 5.3.6)" attached to this post.

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

I'm not a modder, but am intrigued by your commennts.  I've been using his addon for ages, and am very happy with what it adds to gameplay

 

Assuming that we are talking about the same thing - and not the addditioanl changes he added as a later optional version, which don't seem to work quite as well as hoped - have you actually installed his patch and looked at the expansion of the 'knock down' functionality, where different types of attacks have differing hit values, and can be adjusted to match your own preferred type of play?  I'm pretty sure that the conditional variations involved are going to be quite complex, and required a lot of thought and effort to make them function as well as they do. 

 

Not to mention the addditional post defeat functionality and the extent to which it is also user definable

 

What you said about the code volume doesn't surprise me

 

DQW 

I agree with @DonQuiWho. I have been using the Dynamic Defeat patch from @AndrewLRG for years now and I think it’s great.

 

In simple terms, Dynamic Defeat introduces a hit based mechanic that dictates when your player character gets defeated, instead of the original system based on health points.

 

With Dynamic Defeat, combat becomes a strategy of trying to hit enemies without being hit yourself, and getting surrounded by enemies almost always leads to defeat.

 

I personally much prefer the combat with Dynamic Defeat.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2025 by Herowynne

[Roggvir]

6 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

I agree with @DonQuiWho. I have been using the Dynamic Defeat patch from @AndrewLRG for years now and I think it’s great.

 

In simple terms, Dynamic Defeat introduces a hit based mechanic that dictates when your player character gets defeated, instead of the original system based on health points.

 

With Dynamic Defeat, combat becomes a strategy of trying to hit enemies without being hit yourself, and getting surrounded by enemies almost always leads to defeat.

 

I personally much prefer the combat with Dynamic Defeat.

So how does that work - you get hit and that is it, you are defeated? (i assume it is more elaborate than that, right? so how does it work?)
(btw. anyway, none of that changes what i wrote about that script)

[belegost]

59 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

So how does that work - you get hit and that is it, you are defeated? (i assume it is more elaborate than that, right? so how does it work?)
(btw. anyway, none of that changes what i wrote about that script)

You get hit and there is a separate meter that gets filled. Different types of attacks and weapons fill this meter by different amount (configurable). Once it passes 50% (configurable) you have a chance (configurable) to get defeated instantly regardless of your health status. You will be defeated anyway if the meter fill up, even if at full health.

 

The meter depletes itself very slowly when in combat, you can get it down a bit if you manage to avoid being hit, but the rate is not fast enough that you can totally kite enemies however long you want.

 

It also recognizes if attack was blocked or you were hit in the back. In cases of block it fills only half (configurable) of the usual value for the given attack type or (configurable toggle) does not fill it at all. If hit in the back double amount (configurable) is filled.

Arrows, magic, weapon hits, dragon attacks, wolf bites, troll swings, etc, all contribute to the meter. The exact value of those attacks is configurable for each.

 

This system works on top of regular health-based one, which means even at higher levels you can totally get your ass handed over to you if you don't end fight quickly or get jumped by several enemies at once.

 

With this system you want to be VERY careful around archers and mages or dudes swinging warhammers at you. Because even a lowly bandit with steel warhammer has a chance to knock you down if he manages to stagger you on first hit and then follows it up with several swings in quick succession, even if you wear full dragon plate.

 

What I described above is only the BASIC functionality of this patch, there is a lot more to it and it can be configured very extensively. Yes, the MCM is huge and it has a lot of options. Nevertheless "it just works (tm)". And it works beautifully.

Edited October 27, 2025 by belegost

[Fraying9981]

35 minutes ago, belegost said:

You get hit and there is a separate meter that gets filled. Different types of attacks and weapons fill this meter by different amount (configurable). Once it passes 50% (configurable) you have a chance (configurable) to get defeated instantly regardless of your health status. You will be defeated anyway if the meter fill up, even if at full health.

 

The meter depletes itself very slowly when in combat, you can get it down a bit if you manage to avoid being hit, but the rate is not fast enough that you can totally kite enemies however long you want.

 

It also recognizes if attack was blocked or you were hit in the back. In cases of block it fills only half (configurable) of the usual value for the given attack type or (configurable toggle) does not fill it at all. If hit in the back double amount (configurable) is filled.

Arrows, magic, weapon hits, dragon attacks, wolf bites, troll swings, etc, all contribute to the meter. The exact value of those attacks is configurable for each.

 

This system works on top of regular health-based one, which means even at higher levels you can totally get your ass handed over to you if you don't end fight quickly or get jumped by several enemies at once.

 

With this system you want to be VERY careful around archers and mages or dudes swinging warhammers at you. Because even a lowly bandit with steel warhammer has a chance to knock you down if he manages to stagger you on first hit and then follows it up with several swings in quick succession, even if you wear full dragon plate.

 

What I described above is only the BASIC functionality of this patch, there is a lot more to it and it can be configured very extensively. Yes, the MCM is huge and it has a lot of options. Nevertheless "it just works (tm)". And it works beautifully.

 

Thanks for sharing its really interesting.

Does it work for pc only or for npcs too?

[lodoraemon]

On 4/17/2025 at 10:19 PM, yosshy777 said:

Am I correct that if I use Nemesis, I cannot use choke hold?
I've been researching this question for years, but no one has ever given me a definitive answer.

 

Are you still working on this issue? The last time I looked into it, I found that it was because pairing animations like PAsleeper weren't registered in Pandora or Nemesis. But I'm struggling with how to import them into the behavior tree. In fact, I started a thread specifically to address this issue.

But I'm now beginning to think these paired animations were originally designed specifically to work with FNIS.

Edited October 27, 2025 by lodoraemon

[belegost]

11 minutes ago, Fraying9981 said:

 

Thanks for sharing its really interesting.

Does it work for pc only or for npcs too?

Dunno.

NPCs can get defeated but I don't know if they use this system. I have not seen any evidence for it, it always seems like they go by health threshold alone. MCM page with configuration options for this patch do not refer to NPCs at all, so I am guessing it's player-only. But again, I do not know, I could be wrong.

Edited October 27, 2025 by belegost

[Fraying9981]

42 minutes ago, lodoraemon said:

Are you still working on this issue? The last time I looked into it, I found that it was because pairing animations like PAsleeper weren't registered in Pandora or Nemesis. But I'm struggling with how to import them into the behavior tree. In fact, I started a thread specifically to address this issue.

But I'm now beginning to think these paired animations were originally designed specifically to work with FNIS.

 

So thats the explanation. Thank you for sharing.

Mods like dom use these choke paired animations and it works fine with pandora/nemesis.

Perhaps you could check the implementation for defeat? 

 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/16941-diary-of-mine-for-paradise-halls/

Edited October 27, 2025 by Fraying9981

[Siudhne]

On 6/16/2025 at 10:15 PM, Hex Bolt said:

Since it hasn't been linked for several pages now, Bane Master's version of SexLab Defeat is here.

Can somebody reupload the SE version? It seems to be unavailable.

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, Siudhne said:

Can somebody reupload the SE version? It seems to be unavailable.

Something on the site seems to have caused the page number to change.  It's just on the previous page to where it was before.  Find it here now.

Edited November 4, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[safado]

 

4 hours ago, Siudhne said:

Can somebody reupload the SE version? It seems to be unavailable.

 

2 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Something on the site seems to have caused the page number to change.  It's just on the previous page to where it was before.  Find it here now.

 

 

It is here, and the patch is a couple of post under it.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2025 by safado
oops

[lodoraemon]

On 10/28/2025 at 1:00 AM, Fraying9981 said:

 

So thats the explanation. Thank you for sharing.

Mods like dom use these choke paired animations and it works fine with pandora/nemesis.

Perhaps you could check the implementation for defeat? 

 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/16941-diary-of-mine-for-paradise-halls/

According to the FNIS behavior file, PAsleeper should not trigger in the DOM, even though it is registered in the FNIS list. Are you certain the DOM actually triggered PAsleeper rather than some other substitute animation?  I compared the two, and apart from PAsleeper not appearing in the DOM behavior, there was no difference whatsoever. So I'm confused.

[Siudhne]

7 hours ago, safado said:

It is here, and the patch is a couple of post under it.

Thank you!

 

9 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Something on the site seems to have caused the page number to change.  It's just on the previous page to where it was before.  Find it here now.

I could see the post, but the download specifically for the SE version was unavailable. But it seems I was just looking in the wrong thread. Thanks for the help anyhow. 🙂

[Fraying9981]

6 hours ago, lodoraemon said:

According to the FNIS behavior file, PAsleeper should not trigger in the DOM, even though it is registered in the FNIS list. Are you certain the DOM actually triggered PAsleeper rather than some other substitute animation?  I compared the two, and apart from PAsleeper not appearing in the DOM behavior, there was no difference whatsoever. So I'm confused.

 

now that you say it, it probably uses a subsitute animation that is also choking. it uses several animations actually, depending on whether you are choking from back or front.

is there a way to patch defeat to make the choking animation work again?

[Hex Bolt]

10 hours ago, Siudhne said:

I could see the post, but the download specifically for the SE version was unavailable. But it seems I was just looking in the wrong thread. Thanks for the help anyhow.

Ah, I'd only noticed that the page number had changed, but now that you say this, I see that the downloads (for both SE and LE) there show as "unavailable" and Bane Master has a new version on the other thread that safado helpfully linked.

[OnionHeart]

Does anyone know if Pandora, dismembering framework, or thicc thighs take lives are incompatible with Defeat? Or any of their dependent mods? My action key is no longer able to knock down enemies when I sneak. When it comes to corpses, it still opens up the options box (necrophelia and so on), but nothing happens if I sneak up behind them alive and press the action key anymore.

[OnionHeart]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:19 PM, MrOrange17 said:

The action key when player is the aggressor doesn't work with pandora, it doesn't do anything when I press it while sneaking behind an NPC undetected. It was supposed to knock down the NPC

I'm having the same problem. Have you figured out a fix for this yet?

[yosshy777]

The solution I discovered was to make FNIS and Nemesis coexist properly.
This allowed me to use animations exclusive to Nemesis while still being able to use the chokehold in Defeat.

[OnionHeart]

On 11/19/2025 at 5:15 AM, yosshy777 said:

The solution I discovered was to make FNIS and Nemesis coexist properly.
This allowed me to use animations exclusive to Nemesis while still being able to use the chokehold in Defeat.

This didn't work for me, but I found a work around. There's a mod called Knockout and Surrender. If you use this with a patch called Defeat Plus Knockout and Surrender, it will allow you to open Defeat's action menu when you use the KO&S mod to knock someone out. Now I can use Pandora with Defeat.