The History and Eminent Imminent Doom of Free Game Modding.

[TheWilloughbian]

28 minutes ago, Zor2k13 said:

 loader menu 

 

you mean the one in the games start menu?

[Guest]

What are exactly parlor mods? I am dum dum. Examples?

 

I enjoy most mods from this side.

People usually come to here, i assume, for sexy modding.

Skyrim (SE) is for the best game so far as modding goes. Incredible mods and lots of fun playing it.

FO4 is great too but i always feel its missing something from Skyrim. I can not really describe it.

I think to make my Skyrim experience even better would be AFF Harassment and RaiderPet for Skyrim.  On the other hand you have something similar but not as good.

Anyway, i am quiet happy and i think people put a lot of time in these mods. So i generally applaud anyone doing something to broaden the spectrum.

 

Just alone Sexlab and AFF are so great. You got to think how someone develops something like that so others can make mods. Incredible.

It makes me wonder what the future holds for these two games. I think even better mods.

 

I came rather late to the modding experience so my insight is rather limited.

[Wolfshrike]

13 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

What are exactly parlor mods? I am dum dum. Examples?

 

I enjoy most mods from this side.

People usually come to here, i assume, for sexy modding.

Skyrim (SE) is for the best game so far as modding goes. Incredible mods and lots of fun playing it.

FO4 is great too but i always feel its missing something from Skyrim. I can not really describe it.

I think to make my Skyrim experience even better would be AFF Harassment and RaiderPet for Skyrim.  On the other hand you have something similar but not as good.

Anyway, i am quiet happy and i think people put a lot of time in these mods. So i generally applaud anyone doing something to broaden the spectrum.

 

Just alone Sexlab and AFF are so great. You got to think how someone develops something like that so others can make mods. Incredible.

It makes me wonder what the future holds for these two games. I think even better mods.

 

I came rather late to the modding experience so my insight is rather limited.

 

From what I've been able to gather, "Parlor" mods are any mod where the author doesn't just release it into the wild for anybody to do anything they want with it, the assets contained in it, or any of the work done to it. In short, if you want to retain any sort of control over your work as a mod author, congrats, you're a 'parlor' modder. 

 

 

[TheWilloughbian]

41 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

What are exactly parlor mods?

 

Wrye Notes: Open Modding (wryemusings.com)

 

this is the long version.

[Gukahn]

4 hours ago, wutpickel said:

parlor mods

Didn't know it too... Sounds to me like a word some butthurt idiot came up with cause he couldn't use assets from someone with more talent then he had ?

Or someone who just can't simply ask for permission to use the work of others

"Can i use your car? Mine is broken."
No
"Parlor Driver!"

[Pamatronic]

2 hours ago, Gukahn said:

Didn't know it too... Sounds to me like a word some butthurt idiot came up with cause he couldn't use assets from someone with more talent then he had ?

Because that's pretty much what it is.

Just go to the previous page and see our most vocal idiot opponent of creators control complaining about how he has created multiple DLC sized mods all by himself but isn't allowed to publish them because of the evil parlor modders.

 

Honestly, there is only this one guy on this site who uses the term unironically.

 

 

[belegost]

6 hours ago, wutpickel said:

FO4 is great too but i always feel its missing something from Skyrim. I can not really describe it.

 

I only recently started modding FO4 in comparison to years spent with Skyrim but I have similar feeling. It may be down to me just not knowing the environment yet but I feel like a lot of stuff I'm used to and take for granted is missing. There is stuff that in theory do the same thing but not quite. I feel like even the same types of mods somehow look worse or are less advanced.

 

Exampe: been using 3BA on SE and was looking for an equivalent in FO4. Best I could find was Fusion Girl and in theory it does most of the same things except... it doesn't. And it looks like ass, even with the one skin replacer that is avaliable it still can't compare to what can be done in Skyrim.

 

Or faces. I spent half a day trying to make a decent looking character but failed. I downloaded a bunch of presets to try them out and compare; eyes, hair, overalys, you name it; something that could make them look good, but at the end of the day, it all looked like crap in comparison to even basic Skyrim setup. Not to mention Looksmenu is a pain to work with.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Zor2k13 said:

We are gonna get starfield and the gender pronoun garbage that goes with it, then the next ES game and what we will see from those games will be the general direction of the future for those kinds of game ie just how bad will it get.

 

 

It is not just the woke agenda, but the graphics as well. 

When Fallout 4 was released, I noticed the shadows were displaced, and the textures were too opaque. I played Fallout 3, but could not get into Fallout 4. Then years later noticed the modding scene for Fallout 4 was even more toxic than for Skyrim. Hence why my predictions are right: modding will be a paid activity, and only "authorized" mod authors will be able to release their works. And the stuff will be in a proprietary blockchain (which is unhackeable), and using NFTs to buy and sell mods, with the mod authors receiving just a tiny fraction of it. I will not be impressed if there are also controls in the creation kit as well, like a removal of the render window for example. 

 

 

11 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

Little more eye candy for those that may enjoy it.  : )

 

 

The screenshot you posted should be in Mass Effect 2. I wished so much for mods for ME2, I remember actually wanting to make levels to fight those three mercenary factions. You see, this is a problem with modding, it is very limited, and usually companies which allows for it are not very competent... just look at Bethesda and its paleolithic armors in Skyrim, which were surpassed by NordwarUAs armors. Now that Bethesda is part of Microsoft, they might restrict modding to a degree, maybe having only tables in the kit. 

 

And for the entitled little divas complaining in the thread: I don't release the mod because of the platforms, but because I don't find similar content to download (as a player). Would I find it, I could just upload to a cloud and leave the link in some russian website, and you could not do shit about it. The fact that I point out the failure of the parlor model, is because I can't find expansive content, like I did in Oblivion times (when I was only a player, not a mod author). This admission is shared with other people, outside of your walled garden. Hence why Skyrim is still open for modding, whereas older games have been exhausted, or are near exhaustion. 

[worik]

7 hours ago, wutpickel said:

FO4 is great too but i always feel its missing something from Skyrim. I can not really describe it.

I feel the same.

Though, for me, I can explain it because I am much more into the fantasy genre, and that's what got me into the Elder Scrolls series.

Speaking about mods, I think that this reflects back to the modders and which game elements spark their creativity to mod it.

 

If I browse through both games (just did that here and on the Nexus) , I feel much more variety of mods in Skyrim.

[TheWilloughbian]

So many good posts trying think how to best respond here XD

 

As for the Parlor V Cathedral term, I guess you could also call it Proprietary V Open Source modding. I truly had no idea the topic had become so polarizing in the couple years I wasn't paying attention. Personally, I see value in there being both.

 

I really think that TES 6 is going to be far restrictive as far as what kind of modding is allowed. The "Curated" mod thing on Nexus and CC is what gives me this impression. But I think it'll end up backfiring much like when Steam tried paid mods. It's pretty much guarantied that without the modding community the next TES game will not still be selling 11 years after it is released, and it'll be when sales peter off that they might open things up a bit. But this is just what seems a likely scenario to me.

 

for FO4... I really tried to get into it but just couldn't. From the game aspect, the story just wasn't as good as FO3. From a modding aspect I couldn't figure out how to get it to handle transparencies on hair meshes/textures the way I was hoping. Not and bad game at all. If you like sandboxing, the settlement builder is fun stuff. 

 

 

[TheWilloughbian]

Speaking of FO4 got me thinking about that one really cool armor mod I managed to get working in Skrym. I forget what it's called though. When i saw it my first though was that it would work nicely for a cybered out Argonian. Could work for a Khajiit as well. This is shot in that one set in the video I linked.

[TheWilloughbian]

See the thing about a thing like Skyrim, is with some playing around, you have yourself some pretty decent real time rendering software. The amount of amazing screenies out there is testament to this, and I think that's the thing Microsoft ain't gonna let us have for free on the next go. 

[Gukahn]

9 minutes ago, TheWilloughbian said:

Speaking of FO4 got me thinking about that one really cool armor mod I managed to get working in Skrym. I forget what it's called though. When i saw it my first though was that it would work nicely for a cybered out Argonian. Could work for a Khajiit as well. This is shot in that one set in the video I linked.

I don't like argonians.. But cyber punk looks good on them ? Does look a bit like a Digimon ?

[TheWilloughbian]

Just now, Gukahn said:

I don't like argonians.. But cyber punk looks good on them ? Does look a bit like a Digimon ?

 

lol, Digimon. Why do you not care for Argonians?

 

[Gukahn]

4 minutes ago, TheWilloughbian said:

Why do you not care for Argonians?

They just aren't my race of choice ?‍♀️ They can look kinda badass if you do it with Himbo and the right accessory but plane old vanilla argonians just don't do it for me. But i recently made an orc so maybe one day i will at least give them a try

[Pamatronic]

33 minutes ago, TheWilloughbian said:

I truly had no idea the topic had become so polarizing in the couple years I wasn't paying attention

It really hasn't. 

We had a long discussion here when the whole Nexus debacle started, and the vast consensus among creators was, that we would like too keep the right to remove our content from a Platform if said Platform does something extremely disagreeable.

Of course, there were also voices crying about how creators are just entitled divas who just want too piss people off by pulling their content. But these voices usually belonged to those who have never created anything, so you have to question whether you even want to consider their opinions valid.

 

And to offer an additional perspective on this entire "evil parlor modders don't want to share" nonsense:

Pretty much all of my mods use other peoples assets. Every time, I asked nicely beforehand, and I have NEVER gotten a "No". quite the contrary in fact, usually its something like: " yeah, sure man. I´m glad someone can get some use out of it!"

And this is true for everyone I´ve ever talked about it. Other Modders, and even people who commissioned stuff to me. (Including folks from here AND the Nexus)

 

Sure, this is just a personal account and therefore not necessarily representative, but it migh give you an Idee about the state of cooperation.

 

59 minutes ago, TheWilloughbian said:

The "Curated" mod thing on Nexus and CC is what gives me this impression.

I have to disagree here. While I wont comment on the Creation Club, I think the Ultimate Goal behind Nexus curated modlists was to make modding even more accessible (and thereby increase their customerbase). Same with Vortex. while its not my Manager of choice, I think its more beginner friendly than MO2. So again, makes the entire Deal more accessible.

Both Beth and Nexus had have ample of time too see that they can only profit from a healthy modding scene, Therefore I hardly doubt they will actively restrict it.

 

[TheWilloughbian]

9 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

It really hasn't. 

We had a long discussion here when the whole Nexus debacle started, and the vast consensus among creators was, that we would like too keep the right to remove our content from a Platform if said Platform does something extremely disagreeable.

Of course, there were also voices crying about how creators are just entitled divas who just want too piss people off by pulling their content. But these voices usually belonged to those who have never created anything, so you have to question whether you even want to consider their opinions valid.

 

And to offer an additional perspective on this entire "evil parlor modders don't want to share" nonsense:

Pretty much all of my mods use other peoples assets. Every time, I asked nicely beforehand, and I have NEVER gotten a "No". quite the contrary in fact, usually its something like: " yeah, sure man. I´m glad someone can get some use out of it!"

And this is true for everyone I´ve ever talked about it. Other Modders, and even people who commissioned stuff to me. (Including folks from here AND the Nexus)

 

Sure, this is just a personal account and therefore not necessarily representative, but it migh give you an Idee about the state of cooperation.

 

I have to disagree here. While I wont comment on the Creation Club, I think the Ultimate Goal behind Nexus curated modlists was to make modding even more accessible (and thereby increase their customerbase). Same with Vortex. while its not my Manager of choice, I think its more beginner friendly than MO2. So again, makes the entire Deal more accessible.

Both Beth and Nexus had have ample of time too see that they can only profit from a healthy modding scene, Therefore I hardly doubt they will actively restrict it.

 

 

This is what I was wondering and that's good way to put it. "State of Cooperation" 

[Guest]

Just now, Pamatronic said:

Of course, there were also voices crying about how creators are just entitled divas who just want too piss people off by pulling their content. But these voices usually belonged to those who have never created anything, so you have to question whether you even want to consider their opinions valid.

 

 

False and wrong. The voices I heard, they came from mod authors as well. Some were even developers. 

This is what happens when someone lives in a walled garden, he ignores the rest of the world. 

Parlor modders only consider a "creation" something that comes out of blender. If you use the creation kit, or gimp, or anything else, they don't consider it a valid "creation". Then they proceed to put their armors in the ebony category, with double or triple values, because they don't play the game. 

 

But the worst is when they consider only themselves as "mod authors" and the rest are just "thieves". Then proceed to remove any "offending" mod from a platform. I remember the case of one talented texture author (I use some of his works), who was accused of "thievery" and even had his account banned from the Nexus. Later they discovered he had not "stolen" anything, he just used a process similar to the one used by the accusing author, and was re-admited. But the case shows how the Nexus treats its authors: shoot first, ask later. It is a very hostile environment and I'm not the only one saying it. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, belegost said:

 

I only recently started modding FO4 in comparison to years spent with Skyrim but I have similar feeling. It may be down to me just not knowing the environment yet but I feel like a lot of stuff I'm used to and take for granted is missing. There is stuff that in theory do the same thing but not quite. I feel like even the same types of mods somehow look worse or are less advanced.

 

Exampe: been using 3BA on SE and was looking for an equivalent in FO4. Best I could find was Fusion Girl and in theory it does most of the same things except... it doesn't. And it looks like ass, even with the one skin replacer that is avaliable it still can't compare to what can be done in Skyrim.

 

Or faces. I spent half a day trying to make a decent looking character but failed. I downloaded a bunch of presets to try them out and compare; eyes, hair, overalys, you name it; something that could make them look good, but at the end of the day, it all looked like crap in comparison to even basic Skyrim setup. Not to mention Looksmenu is a pain to work with.

Lol

 

looksmenu has not many options like racemenu i think but you can sculpted your face easier.

The one thing i know is in regards to DD. It seem rather game engine limited.

I do use FG and i am quite happy myself. To me animations are a big problem. Though that is probably also technical nature. I do not know anything about game engine limitations so i can not say much. But what i can say is that the animations sometimes look rather mechanical. Not real. There are some animation on Skyrim as well. For example when animation play fairly fast.

 

The face bug is the most annoying aspect i think. But once you know how to do it, its minor.

I loved FO4 as a game. Well, i never really considered it a RPG but from the layout it was not bad.

 

In a summary FO4 is alright and there are some really good mods for it.

I installed FO4 recently again and test on it. It is en joyful and pretty. The mods i mentioned in an earlier post are my key mods i am using.

[Zor2k13]

The original passion to just maek mod is gone, money does that every time. We won't get that back any time soon. During the high times of a society certainly when economics are good, people don't mind doing something or many things like hobbies and sharing for free but during bad times we will always get paymeon and other things cutting into the hobbies and modding scenes. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, worik said:

I feel the same.

Though, for me, I can explain it because I am much more into the fantasy genre, and that's what got me into the Elder Scrolls series.

Speaking about mods, I think that this reflects back to the modders and which game elements spark their creativity to mod it.

 

If I browse through both games (just did that here and on the Nexus) , I feel much more variety of mods in Skyrim.

This is probably true. Skyrim is just older and thus has/had more people making mods for it.

FO4, even though its old now as well, is still kind of new.

Really great mods just surfaced in recent history. So there is still lots of potential for really great mods.

For me its mostly the vibe. The wasteland has lots to offer. Bombed world, factions, mean characters. Things that want to kill you or enslave you. Just by the lore of FO. I still lament that Cesar's faction is not in Boston. This would be so much more fun.

FONV had such a great slavery mod. Where you were trained and used all the time. It was quiet immersive. Sadly the game was in today's standards rather mediocre.

But what i never really like and i have to excuse my self is the fact (like Skyrim) of some human races. Ghouls, Orcs and such. At the same time i really love StarTrek with all their different races and women. I am strange.

I could never imagine to have sex with it.

What i like about Skyrim is the whole magical thing. Things happen through magic.

Also the whole drug system is much better on Skyrim than it is on FO4.

 

My deepest wish would be some great FO4 mod to be converted to Skyrim SE (if thats even possible).

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Pamatronic said:

It really hasn't. 

I agree. It is more monopolar if you ignore the lone voice crying in the wilderness.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zor2k13 said:

The original passion to just maek mod is gone, money does that every time. We won't get that back any time soon. During the high times of a society certainly when economics are good, people don't mind doing something or many things like hobbies and sharing for free but during bad times we will always get paymeon and other things cutting into the hobbies and modding scenes. 

I usually do stuff for fun. Sadly i am not modder that makes story mods. At least i did not went that route yet. But i think most modder make mods because they use it on their own game play and make it available to others.

In the end, its so complicated.

Today you can make money of making mods. Usually they very popular mod writer make good money. The rest do not. In itself this can be good or bad.

Money is of course mostly something that taints things. You become Gollum. ?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gukahn said:

They just aren't my race of choice ?‍♀️ They can look kinda badass if you do it with Himbo and the right accessory but plane old vanilla argonians just don't do it for me. But i recently made an orc so maybe one day i will at least give them a try

Argonians and Khajiit destroyed the conception of sex for me. It make me shiver. ?

[DoctaSax]

2 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

As for the Parlor V Cathedral term, I guess you could also call it Proprietary V Open Source modding.

 

They're really rather caricatures of both. I publish under free open-source licenses but it always sickens me how people go around claiming all modders should be forced into a similar model, or that parlor's destroyed a past where cathedral reigned supreme, which never happened. You can't have a healthy, open modding environment if people who contribute are made to feel unwelcome for exercising their right to determine what happens with their creations.