The History and Eminent Imminent Doom of Free Game Modding.

[TheWilloughbian]

3 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

 

They're really rather caricatures of both. I publish under free open-source licenses but it always sickens me how people go around claiming all modders should be forced into a similar model, or that parlor's destroyed a past where cathedral reigned supreme, which never happened. You can't have a healthy, open modding environment if people who contribute are made to feel unwelcome for exercising their right to determine what happens with their creations.

 

Well, I have to consider the fact that mods can be and most often are very personal to the people that create them. A buddy of mine had this follower mod where the follower was a large woman that actually looked like she would be able to use a two-handed sword. I nearly had to beg for the bodyslide files as he did want anyone trying to make her all skimpy. I can absolutely agree that a person has a right to a say in how original creations are used. If they don't want to open source it that is up to them. There are certain textures I have made that are very personal to me that really wouldn't want all over the web, silly as that may seem. I kind of get a kick out of the fact I have stuff in my Skyrim no one else does. It's one of the things that's cool about Skyrim for me is that no two people's builds are alike. I'm sure there are others that feel that way about whatever game they enjoy modding.

 

[Guest]

I've paid for a subscription to a modder. Never found issue with it. Super high quality work, and I was happy to support them. I don't personally see anything wrong with it. In my opinion it helps to keep the community thriving by helping people have some incentive to make cool stuff.

[belegost]

Why is the concept discussed here called "Parlor vs Cathedral" anyway? I know what a cathedral is but what the hell is a parlor? And what does sacral architecture have to do with modding?

[Grey Cloud]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:50 PM, TheWilloughbian said:

I nearly had to beg for the bodyslide files as he did want anyone trying to make her all skimpy

Bodies aren't skimpy only the clothing/armour. As for changing her size, you don't need the Bodyslide files for that.

[Tlam99]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

here called "Parlor vs Cathedral" anyway? I know what a cathedral is but what the hell is a parlor? And what does sacral

The idea behind, parlor, little personal room versus cathedral, big common room, transfered into

liitle can only build small things, common the great things.

However, it's just an idea, no fact. But people with a twisted mind try to sell this idea as the real truth.

Make all people fit into 2 slots. For me this idea is born in a limited brain.

[TheWilloughbian]

So, as I have been getting back into things and seeing the elements at play in the current modding scene, I have to say I am very glad I was in the habit of archiving pretty much every mod I ever downloaded. While I feel a mod author has every right to do as they wish in terms of hosting their mods, or not, where and as they please, one of the things have been seeing a lot more of is a tendency to try and enforce that mod users mod their game in the fashion preferred by the mod author. While that certainly is an author's prerogative, I'm not someone that will be dictated to in that fashion. The arrogance of some of the modders that have been around a while and achieved a certain "rock star" status is downright laughable and I resist the assertion that there is one correct way to mod one's game. There is what works and what does not. "Caveat Emptor". For me it's not the end of the world if I break something and have to start over. That's why I keep back ups. Now, I can understand the position of taking a mod (any version of USSEP except the one for the current build) that might cause issues, down due to the fact the author doesn't want to hear it when a less experienced mod user runs into issues, trying to run a version of the game that is not officially supported, and acts like it's the mod author's fault. But don't make assertions that aren't true and act like its gospel, when citing your reasons for doing so.

 

Many of the posts I are from people that I guess would qualify as mod users rather than what I would game modders. Installing mods into one's game doesn't make one a game modder, creating mods does, whether they are published or not. Now many if the people are new to game modding (we all start somewhere) and have the expectation that they download mods, install them and it should work. When they run into issues they really don't know where to begin, as they are new to it. I don't always see these people being treated well, which is kind of sad. Not everyone has been doing this for years and some if the attitudes I see can be likened to the high school math teacher that can't being to fathom that there might be someone doesn't understand. It's what I like about the hobby is the learning experience. (on a side note, I had a lot of fun with this tutorial this weekend)

 

Spoiler

 

 

That's just my observation of things at the moment. But yeah, the scene has definitely changed from a couple years ago. I was really happy to try out Nemesis and realize that I no longer need FNIS and the bullshit spyware it comes with. It's nice to have choices and not have some "too big for their britches wanna be modding police" up in my thing.

 

Anyhow.. Just needed to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

The arrogance of some of the modders that have been around a while and achieved a certain "rock star" status is downright laughable and I resist the assertion that there is one correct way to mod one's game.

 

It is not just that. They want to dictate how you going to make your own mod. The arrogance, the entitlement of the primadonnas knows no bounds. 

One thing that asset providers must be aware of, is that when you publish your asset on the internet, for free and no strings attached, people are going to use them, period. 

But then, they might use it the way you want (taking screenshots for your own promotion) or the way you don't want (actually putting the piece into a quest or a dungeon, then playing the game normally). 

In this case, you can't dictate their creations, you can't interfere. The moment you try, you will breed hostility, and hence why mod authors for Bethesda games are being so much hostilized out there. You have, on one side, the players who now expects "professional" mods (because of all the pandering to the parlor cliques, who fancy themselves as "professionals", at the same time they state it is a hobby), and on the other side, the mod authors, who had their works suppressed (thus leading to the lack of substantial content I see these days) and now, lobby for the total destruction of what the parlor cliques termed "mod author's rights". 

 

19 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

That's why I keep back ups. 

 

I also keep backups of everything. Sometimes I go to the Nexus to check the mod page, and it is gone. So I have to do a deep search to know what the mod is about. Also due to the lack of new good games to play, my drivers have a lot of empty space, so I keep the mod packages at hand, with a second backup in a external hd. Very easy to upload to a cloud, if someone needs it. 

In my opinion this support concern is just a excuse to delete previous versions of a mod. If you want to offer support, you will have to deal with all kind of dumb people who don't read instructions, and no matter if their version is the current one, they will make you lose your time anyway. I think this concern is more related to people who want to reach a "rock star" status within their own clique, and don't want others to find out they have introduced bugs in previous versions. Nobody is perfect, but the primadonna want to be seem as a god in the flesh, hence the arrogance, the prepotency, the entitlement, the lack of humility and respect, the lack of human values. 

[TheWilloughbian]

6 hours ago, Wolfstorm321 said:

Nobody is perfect, but the primadonna want to be seem as a god in the flesh, hence the arrogance, the prepotency, the entitlement, the lack of humility and respect, the lack of human values. 

 

Yeah, I guess a scene is gonna have its scenesters. Good call on the 0.70.9 build of NMM by the way. Does just what I need it to.

[RohZima]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:55 PM, belegost said:

Why is the concept discussed here called "Parlor vs Cathedral" anyway? I know what a cathedral is but what the hell is a parlor? And what does sacral architecture have to do with modding?

 

Yeah it's stupid; should be "solo" and "cluster-fuck."

 

But what is worst about this thread is it talks about an imaginary, idealized that doesn't exist as far as I can think of.  "Parlor" sounds more like "castle in the sky" to me.

[TheWilloughbian]

1 hour ago, RohZima said:

 

Yeah it's stupid; should be "solo" and "cluster-fuck."

 

But what is worst about this thread is it talks about an imaginary, idealized that doesn't exist as far as I can think of.  "Parlor" sounds more like "castle in the sky" to me.

 

Actually, my purpose was to find out what the toxicity I had noticed after a couple years away was about. There are varying opinions on the matter and each person is entitled to his or hers. Best I can figure from what I have read here is that it's the result of the usual lack of empathy in the world (but that's a whole other can of worms) and that greedy people decided to bring money (microtransactions) into the equation. It's a sad development, not the end of the world, but sad none the less.

 

The things I have witnessed in the few weeks since I decided to get a new modding project started, have made the writing on the wall pretty clear. Windows reassigning ownership of the program files folders so that user profiles can't edit them, the rather transparent "use a real mod manager" campaign, creation club's microtransactions and the sellouts out making mods for it, when Bethesda's rule had always been that makings mods and asking for money was against the terms of use/ UELA. With Microsoft in the mix now... Hell, we all know what they're about. It's pretty obvious that the things are shifting towards end users not being permitted to alter a "moddable" games files for any reason. Game modding has gone mainstream, it's been that way for a while and the powers that be (at least in regard to certain games) are doing their best to idiot proof it and turn a profit on it.

 

As for things like "parlor v cathedral modding" and "modpocalypse" being real or imaginary constructs... My impression is that they are terms created to address very real dynamics occurring in the recent state of affairs and overuse of these terms has reduced them to rhetoric. The divisions in the community I see caused by these elements are of more concern to me than the arguments themselves. I just kind of wish more people would make an attempt at showing a little compassion and be a little nicer to each other. But that goes for all things not just gaming message boards.

[27X]

7 hours ago, RohZima said:

 

Yeah it's stupid; should be "solo" and "cluster-fuck."

 

But what is worst about this thread is it talks about an imaginary, idealized that doesn't exist as far as I can think of.  "Parlor" sounds more like "castle in the sky" to me.

 

Because it is. It has nothing to do with the actual concepts other than in the vaguest "these things exist" way, the only reason you see any amplification is usually A. I didn't get what I want and B politics.

 

None of this is remotely new either. 4th time was a charm for the Nexus monetizing and conglomerating mods solely as they see fit, they've been attempting this since before Oblivion was announced, much less launched launched; Nexus' political landscape has ALWAYS been leftist as fuck; not liberal, straight up venezuela style leftist which considering the site exists because trust fund baby start up project is pretty goddamn funny, and no two consersvative moderators does not make the site "balanced". Clique modding, as already stated, has been a thing since day one, anyone suddenly noticing it now either is deliberately ignorant or literally unable to read; and paid/paywall using stolen assets/mods has been a thing since DooM and advertised second hand published adult paid modding has been thing since apple 2e.

 

If there's an ism at work, that ism is narcissism, simple as.

 

6 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

alter a "moddable" games files for any reason.

 

Again, not new. Half Life 1 and Jedi Knight had people attempting to enforce on-the-fly or server side asset decryption, GMod was notorious for server side exclusive horseshit that you had to pay for every month and any updates were extra. The difference between then and now is corporate participation.

[TheWilloughbian]

Just got this email. Wondering what it means for the CK.

 

We’re saying goodbye to the Bethesda.net Launcher this year   We’re saying goodbye to the Bethesda.net Launcher this year. We would like to thank you for your support and assure you that all of your games are safe. If you’re not playing PC games through the Bethesda.net launcher then your work is done here. Thanks for reading! If you do have games through the Bethesda.net launcher, don’t worry. Starting in early April you’ll be able to migrate your games and Wallet to your Steam account. For more details on what this process will look like, read on.   You have plenty of time to plan and begin migrating your Bethesda.net library to your Steam account. The migration to Steam will include your game library and Wallet – meaning you will not lose anything from your Bethesda.net account. Many games will also have their saves migrated, with a few requiring some manual transfers. For games that require it, you will still use your Bethesda.net login to sign in to play. Your Bethesda.net account will not be lost and will still be accessible on our website and in-game, and we will continue supporting all Bethesda.net accounts with our future titles.     NEXT STEPS   In early April, you will be able to initiate the migration process following detailed instructions we will have available to you then.   We expect you to have a lot of questions and encourage you to take a look at our comprehensive FAQ. For those of you looking for questions specific to Fallout 76, we also have a Fallout 76-specific FAQ on Fallout.com.   Until May, you will still be able to access and play your games on the Bethesda.net Launcher, but we suggest that you start the migration process as soon as it’s available.      ENGLISH  -  FRANÇAIS  -  ITALIANO  -  DEUTSCH  -  ESPAÑOL  POLSKI  -  РУССКИЙ  -  日本語  -  PORTUGUÊS  TÜRKÇE  -  简体中文  -  繁體中文  -  한국어

[belegost]

Never used Bethesda launcher but cutting the crap and reducing their number is a good thing in my book. Too many publishers add this type of bloatware as a requirement. One of the reasons I don't play any EA or Ubi games and never used Epic.

 

CK won't change, it works without the launcher, you only needed it to download the damn thing and only recently. If they revert the process of getting it to a simple standalone download without the need for registration, I'm all for it. 

[27X]

Removing a confirm flag from CK and done.

[TheWilloughbian]

3 hours ago, belegost said:

If they revert the process of getting it to a simple standalone download without the need for registration, I'm all for it. 

 

Yeah, that's what I was wondering (yes, I know you can run the CK without the Bethesda launcher). If they were going to make it available for download from Steam or something. A standalone would be great though, but I don't have my hopes up for that.

[TheWilloughbian]

12 hours ago, The Man of Steel said:

My major issue is with Patreon. Wanting to get paid for your creation, fine, I'm even fine with early access, but locking all of your content behind permanent paywalls is bullshit, especially if it's a mod that has to be updated which basically forces you into subscribing for a single mod. Except on top of that, you do the same thing for every other creator putting mods you like behind paywalls. The adult gaming industry does the same shit, it's all designed to suck you dry of money. I'd play an mmo or some other lootbox and microtransaction infested game if I wanted my bank account drained.

 

 I've run afoul of a Patreon myself.  A post regarding a mod I was interested in was locked behind the "supporter" thing, and I was like why not? I'll kick in a buck and support someone making the type of mod that interests me. So, I do this only to find the post doesn't contain a download link but only goes on to detail that the mod is only available from his discord and at a "higher lvl tier" than what I signed up for. Now the fact that they guy wanted five bucks for the mods wasn't so bad as the fact that he hid the information. The way he went about it was a little dishonest IMO and was left feeling he should have been a little more upfront about it. I, of course immediately cancelled that subscription, lesson learned. May his mods forever be lost to obscurity.