toys Shout Like a Virgin Evolved SE & LE

BDNelson · May 1, 2022

Incaendo's Overlays, body paint mod.

Nalier · May 2, 2022

Hey! Could anyone give me a minor spoiler, please? Are there any other slavetats applied by the mod other than those SLAVE burn marks on breasts, crotch, and the butt?

*VirginMarie* · May 2, 2022

3 hours ago, Nalier said:

Hey! Could anyone give me a minor spoiler, please? Are there any other slavetats applied by the mod other than those SLAVE burn marks on breasts, crotch, and the butt?

No

Nalier · May 2, 2022

Thanks! I was just curious if it's save to use other slots for other things

Nalier · May 3, 2022

I just noticed that losing a foot during the Foot Fetish quest causes my character’s unarmed value to deteriorate below 0. Losing a foot alone makes it something like -40/50. After 2 deerskin quests, it’s around -225. I’m playing on AE, SLaVE was added from the very start, and don’t have any combat enhancing / gory/choppy mods installed. I tried reverting to an older save, but the same thing happens. I can band-aid fix it with a console command, but I guess that’s not good for unarmed scaling with toys/aroused feature.

*VirginMarie* · May 3, 2022

10 hours ago, Nalier said:

I just noticed that losing a foot during the Foot Fetish quest causes my character’s unarmed value to deteriorate below 0. Losing a foot alone makes it something like -40/50. After 2 deerskin quests, it’s around -225. I’m playing on AE, SLaVE was added from the very start, and don’t have any combat enhancing / gory/choppy mods installed. I tried reverting to an older save, but the same thing happens. I can band-aid fix it with a console command, but I guess that’s not good for unarmed scaling with toys/aroused feature.

Thanks for your report. Need more info to diagnose. Some background...

SLaVE never buffs/debuffs Unarmed, or any attribute directly. Its all through Toys&Love
Unarmed buff occurs in Toys&Love when a toy with the Unarmed Effect is equipped. When that toy is unequipped, it removes the buff. There is no other case of unarmed attribute being modified in the Toys Family
View all effects on a toy by clicking on a toy in the Toys Worn tab in Toys&Love MCM. You would use this to know what is currently touching Unarmed. Usually something in arms or wrists slot. You can also view all active Buffs on the tab with that name
No toy related to the Foot Fetish quest, uses the Unarmed Effect
Unarmed is never intentionally a debuff (negative). Makes no sense to do so (I expect negative has no actual effect). Removing the toy essentially debuffs from where it was, to offset the buff, since we can't just set it to 0, as other mods would get clobbered if we did that. So it's possible for something to go wrong taking any buff/debuff, off track from what is intended
Other mods buff/debuff too, we have to rule them out

With that all in mind, what you are seeing can NOT be directly related to losing a foot. There's no co-relation. I'd be lost to try and recreate it, but maybe you have a very specific action that recrates it? Like is it... event where foot is lost?... scene where deer hooves are put on?.... scene where human feet are returned?... something else?

If you use the Toys MCM - Debug tab - Player Reset, it will undo all buffs applied by Toys, and then also re-do them if any are meant to be active. This also occurs when you load a save. Have you tried that MCM option to see what happens, looking in console before and after?
Foot Fetish quest only puts the hooves on you, and the foot fetish toy at the end. Neither do unarmed.

I expect that a negative debuff on unarmed would have no effect (be the same as zero). So I'm not sure this problem would hurt much. Are you seeing otherwise? You see a weird number in your console... but what's the actual game impact?

As for cause, rather than it being foot loss.... What's more likely is you have a toy that DOES have the unarmed effect (they are mostly the ones that bind wrists), and something is going wrong with their unequip, OR the issue is coming from another mod, OR you have a corrupt save.

Bottom line... Need info on how to recreate it. Frist wee have to rule out other mods. We also have to rule out a corrupt save... see Golden Rule. Any chance you have a corrupt save? For example if you did not start a new game when you first added Toys, your save would be corrupt.

Edited May 3, 2022 by VirginMarie

Nalier · May 3, 2022

Ok, you were right of course. This has nothing to do with the Foot Fetish event.

I’ve had SLaVE and the rest of the Toy Family (xd) mods running from the very start, so that’s not it.

My character lost her foot while exploring Shroud Hearth Depths (before the word wall), so I thought that must be what triggered this bug. But after going save by save, I’ve just noticed it happened a few minutes earlier.

I’m saving my game very often (manually, not quicksaving), so there’s tons of saves, at least. At one point in the Shroud Hearth Depths, Toys&Love framework starts registering a “Classical Vaginal Soulgem (Exotic)” both in my vaginal slot and my ankle slot. Just a save earlier in the ankle slot there’s a “Bratty Ankle Cuffs” - and this save has the correct value for unarmed (verified with console). I guess there must have been a glitch while swapping toys after animation? But why this happened I have no idea. I *might* have been experimenting with SexLab matchmaker and draugs (out of curiosity >_>). Could this be the reason?

Edit:

So... I've just tried playing a bit with the good save. Tried sexlab matchmaker on 2 draugrs. All my toys were re-equiped normally without issues. After the first draugr my unarmed dropped (without toy buffs). Reloaded the save, tried again - this time nothing changed and unarmed has the correct value. No idea what's causing this issue... Maybe how the buffs from toys suddenly change when arousal drops to 0 through another mod (matchmaker)?

Edited May 4, 2022 by Nalier

*VirginMarie* · May 4, 2022

5 hours ago, Nalier said:

I’ve had SLaVE and the rest of the Toy Family (xd) mods running from the very start, so that’s not it.

If you mean... you started a new game when you first added Toys, good! But this does not rule out corrupt save. You could have changed your load order since starting the new game. Golden Rule

5 hours ago, Nalier said:

Toys&Love framework starts registering a “Classical Vaginal Soulgem (Exotic)” both in my vaginal slot and my ankle slot.

This is a symptom of corrupt save. The references have become garbled in the data because mod slots have moved. Classic result of corrupt save. I've seen this happen myself. Sometimes when I'm testing I do a test that breaks the golden rule, knowing its going to be corrupt, but the short term test itself is the goal (example... removing a mod to see a result). I don't keep or use that save. I know that symptom, and I know its cause. It's very likely you had a corrupt save at that point, and anything after that point.

5 hours ago, Nalier said:

Tried sexlab matchmaker on 2 draugrs. All my toys were re-equiped normally without issues.

Do you know that Toys&Love plays love scenes too, without sexlab, right from your SLAL packs?

And Toys has a built in matchmaker.... its in the Toys MCM... Love Scenes tab. So why you using the old Matchmaker, when you have Toys&Love?

5 hours ago, Nalier said:

After the first draugr my unarmed dropped (without toy buffs).

So unarmed got borked without any toys that buff unarmed? That implies the problem is not related to Toys.

5 hours ago, Nalier said:

Maybe how the buffs from toys suddenly change when arousal drops to 0 through another mod (matchmaker)?

I think we are stretching here. Let's not try to guess. First... need to be sure its not a corrupt save. 2nd... need to be reasonably sure its not another mod. Both of those things are uncertain based of the things I've pointed to above.

Also you did not answer this.....

I expect that a negative debuff on unarmed would have no effect (be the same as zero). So I'm not sure this problem would hurt much. Are you seeing otherwise? You see a weird number in your console... but what's the actual game impact?

My point being, seems like not something that important to sort out. But knowing the impact would give me context to understand.

BUT....I'd be a lot more concerned about how this .... Toys&Love framework starts registering a “Classical Vaginal Soulgem (Exotic)” both in my vaginal slot and my ankle slot...... happened. And at this point, I'm saying its a corrupt save. I'd love to see log for that if you recreate it, but not until you've started a new game. How to get a Papyrus Log

Nalier · May 4, 2022

4 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

If you mean... you started a new game when you first added Toys, good! But this does not rule out corrupt save. You could have changed your load order since starting the new game. Golden Rule

That's exactly what I mean.

4 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

This is a symptom of corrupt save. The references have become garbled in the data because mod slots have moved. Classic result of corrupt save. I've seen this happen myself. Sometimes when I'm testing I do a test that breaks the golden rule, knowing its going to be corrupt, but the short term test itself is the goal (example... removing a mod to see a result). I don't keep or use that save. I know that symptom, and I know its cause. It's very likely you had a corrupt save at that point, and anything after that point.

Yes, I think you're right (although I don't know how to verify if the save is corrupt or not). I didn't add any new mods during my gameplay and didn't change the load order. I didn't remove anything either. I never save over the same file. Toys are nearly at the bottom. The only mods I have below them are Realistic Water and Immersive Paper Map/Flat Map Markers. And yes, I am aware that a save can get corrupted anyway, I'm just trying to find out why >_>

4 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Do you know that Toys&Love plays love scenes too, without sexlab, right from your SLAL packs?

And Toys has a built in matchmaker.... its in the Toys MCM... Love Scenes tab. So why you using the old Matchmaker, when you have Toys&Love?

True, but I'm no modder and I don't exactly know how things like that work. It's my first experience ever with animation mods like sexlab framework. Before that I was using mostly new lands/quests/dungeons and better textures stuff.

4 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

So unarmed got borked without any toys that buff unarmed? That implies the problem is not related to Toys.

Well, I posted here, because I *thought* the Foot Fetish quest triggered the bug. I'm not so sure anymore and I'm not blaming your mods (which ARE awesome).

While testing with the MatchMaker, I thought that maybe unequipping/reequipping toys with unarmed buff causes this glitch, or the changes in rousing (which are linked with buff value?).

In the console "player.getav unarmeddamage" gives me a number below 0. When I try to punch something, there's no damage. I don't have any debuffs relating to unarmed listed in Active Effects on character sheet. But Unarmed buffs aren't listed there either.

It could be some other mod of course, but I don't have anything that touches Unarmed besides toys (at least I think so).

Once again - at first I thought it was the Foot Fetish, that's why I posted here. I'm not blaming your mods at all. I'm just lost and have no idea how to check what's causing it.

May 4, 2022

(Sorry for my bad English if you don't understand!)

I've got warned by MO2, about a file confilct between SLaVE and Skyrim Unbound Reborn: wordwalltriggerscript.pex

I know it's a bit weird where both of the mods are installed at the same time. (A mod using shout feature and another mod for those who don't prefer shouts. (...))

But.. I hope it would be helpful. Many informations are almost always good, right? XD

gregaaz · May 4, 2022

45 minutes ago, Younhee said:

(Sorry for my bad English if you don't understand!)

I've got warned by MO2, about a file confilct between SLaVE and Skyrim Unbound Reborn: wordwalltriggerscript.pex

I know it's a bit weird where both of the mods are installed at the same time. (A mod using shout feature and another mod for those who don't prefer shouts. (...))

But.. I hope it would be helpful. Many informations are almost always good, right? XD

I took a quick look at both scripts and both of them alter script properties, which means this isn't a benign conflict that you can ignore.

The Virgin version, of course, adds the functions necessary for SLaVE to work properly, such as updating the internal counter for how many walls the player has visited.

The Unbound version suppresses the wall's function if the actor has disabled dragon souls and/or shouts, and also forwarded bugfixes from the USSEP.

If you are willing to do the work to ensure compatibility, it is probably sufficient to just merge the changes and recompile the script (and also to merge the property changes in the plugins via a patch). If you aren't comfortable doing that, then you want SLaVE's virtual machine properties (in the plugin) and its scripts to load after Skyrim Unbound. You will lose the ability to disable word wall content through Skyrim Unbound, and you will lose the USSEP bug fixes, but SLaVE should work fine.

Edited May 4, 2022 by gregaaz

*VirginMarie* · May 4, 2022

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

Yes, I think you're right (although I don't know how to verify if the save is corrupt or not).

There's actually no way to check. No tool can confirm or deny. You can look at your papyrus log and look for likely symptoms of it, if you've spend years looking at logs, but you can never be 100% certain.

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

Toys are nearly at the bottom.

Toys.esm (the framework also known as Toys&Love) cannot be at the bottom. This is because its a master. The "m" in .esm is for master. Master plugins (frameworks), must load before the regular plugins. If your mod manager is letting you put Toys.ems near the bottom, skyrim will just revert it right back up to the top when things actually load. I don't know if this could be causing a corrupt save or not though. But it does suggest your load order is potentially....not well.

The rest of the toys family plugins can go near or at the bottom. But that's not best practice. You are better off NOT touching load order and letting it sort automatically, unless you are wanting to add a mod mid-playthrough, which is when you must put it at the bottom.

There is more on this exact topic here... do I really need to start a new game?

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

It's my first experience ever with animation mods like sexlab framework.

My main point was to try to make sure that you realize that Toys&Love Is a Love Scenes Framework, just like Sexlab is. They both preform that role.

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

When I try to punch something, there's no damage.

OK this is very good to know. I was wrong then... a negative value actually does cause unarmed to become very weak apparently. So that makes your problem worth solving.

What I'm going to do is make the Toys MCM Player Reset, and the action of loading a save, set it to 0 (and then re-apply any buff Toys has for it), as it should never go below, and this can't break other mods. This will help people out in the future thanks to you. Its a Band-Aid, but not a solution for the currently unknown cause.

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

I don't have any debuffs relating to unarmed listed in Active Effects on character sheet.

Toys does not show its debuffs on that window. It shows all its buffs in the Toys MCM - Active Effects & Buffs tab

9 hours ago, Nalier said:

have no idea how to check what's causing it.

Id suggest.... watch for it to happen again. You need to catch in in the act from a known good state (and probably a new game). If you catch that moment, then go back to the last save... see if you can recreate it. If you can, recreate it yet again (after starting the game up fresh so we don't have a huge log, but just a log for a few minutes of game time), and grab your papyrus log, for that bit of time where you recreated. Then share it here for me to use. How to get a Papyrus Log?

*VirginMarie* · May 4, 2022

5 hours ago, Younhee said:

(Sorry for my bad English if you don't understand!)

I've got warned by MO2, about a file confilct between SLaVE and Skyrim Unbound Reborn: wordwalltriggerscript.pex

I know it's a bit weird where both of the mods are installed at the same time. (A mod using shout feature and another mod for those who don't prefer shouts. (...))

But.. I hope it would be helpful. Many informations are almost always good, right? XD

For your question, @gregaaz has covered it. Bottom line, don't overwrite the SLaVE scripts, or the main quest will not be able to proceed.

I don't know anything about Unbound Reborn. This pic (below) is clipped from the main DL page.

Question... can you do this with that mod? If you can't, you won't be able to start SLaVE's main quest, unless you somehow get one of the vanilla shouts and shout.

Gregaaz might also know the answer to my question.

Nalier · May 4, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

Toys.esm (the framework also known as Toys&Love) cannot be at the bottom. This is because its a master. The "m" in .esm is for master. Master plugins (frameworks), must load before the regular plugins. If your mod manager is letting you put Toys.ems near the bottom, skyrim will just revert it right back up to the top when things actually load. I don't know if this could be causing a corrupt save or not though. But it does suggest your load order is potentially....not well.

Hey! Thanks for your answer ^^ Of course I don't have Toys.esm at the bottom. Sorry, I wasn't clear about that xd What I meant is - toy esp plugins (like Toy Story and SLaVE) are as low, as I could put them. That's because I'm using stuff like lighting mods and didn't want that to interfere with quests. And it works, because every Toy-connected quest I did worked perfectly. My Toy.esm is actually pretty high, a little below the Unofficial Patch and above other stuff, like Campfire/Frostfall or new land mods.

Actually, now that I think about it, there is one mod I enabled after starting my new playthrough - Helgen Reborn. That's because having it from the very start glitches up the prison cart (changes the road, I think).

Nalier · May 4, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

What I'm going to do is make the Toys MCM Player Reset, and the action of loading a save, set it to 0 (and then re-apply any buff Toys has for it), as it should never go below, and this can't break other mods. This will help people out in the future thanks to you. Its a Band-Aid, but not a solution for the currently unknown cause.

That would be great. Even if Unarmed has a value like -5 with toy buffs it works pretty good. It's getting problematic when it drops below -50 (that's what happened to me).

(sorry for double posting)

May 5, 2022

9 hours ago, gregaaz said:

I took a quick look at both scripts and both of them alter script properties, which means this isn't a benign conflict that you can ignore.

The Virgin version, of course, adds the functions necessary for SLaVE to work properly, such as updating the internal counter for how many walls the player has visited.

The Unbound version suppresses the wall's function if the actor has disabled dragon souls and/or shouts, and also forwarded bugfixes from the USSEP.

If you are willing to do the work to ensure compatibility, it is probably sufficient to just merge the changes and recompile the script (and also to merge the property changes in the plugins via a patch). If you aren't comfortable doing that, then you want SLaVE's virtual machine properties (in the plugin) and its scripts to load after Skyrim Unbound. You will lose the ability to disable word wall content through Skyrim Unbound, and you will lose the USSEP bug fixes, but SLaVE should work fine.

Then in my case, I should grab the unbound one and give up installing SLaVE, because I don't like being a Dragonborn. :S

Or I have to do some script-job but unfortunately I have no idea how to do. (I'm not good at it.)

Thanks for your advice. X)

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

For your question, @gregaaz has covered it. Bottom line, don't overwrite the SLaVE scripts, or the main quest will not be able to proceed.

I don't know anything about Unbound Reborn. This pic (below) is clipped from the main DL page.

Question... can you do this with that mod? If you can't, you won't be able to start SLaVE's main quest, unless you somehow get one of the vanilla shouts and shout.

Gregaaz might also know the answer to my question.

Hmmmmmm I reckon there will be no other way to get any shout and dragon souls if the Unbound Reborn sets player as a non-Dragonborn.

But If I understand gregaaz's explanation correctly, maybe I can bypass the limitation of getting shouts.

And the "obtaining a dragon soul from a dragon no matter I'm a Dragonborn or not" option exists in the mod. (If I saw that correctly)

I'll make a reply after I test it, then.

Btw, is SLaVE mod for Dragonborn players, right?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Younhee

*VirginMarie* · May 5, 2022

10 minutes ago, Younhee said:

Then in my case, I should grab the unbound one and give up installing SLaVE, because I don't like being a Dragonborn. :S

Or I have to do some script-job but unfortunately I have no idea how to do. (I'm not good at it.)

Thanks for your advice. X)

Hmmmmmm I reckon there will be no other way to get any shout and dragon souls if the Unbound Reborn sets player as a non-Dragonborn.

But If I understand gregaaz's explanation correctly, maybe I can bypass the limitation of getting shouts.

And the "obtaining a dragon soul from a dragon no matter I'm a Dragonborn or not" option exists in the mod. (If I saw that correctly)

I'll make a reply after I test it, then.

Btw, is SLaVE mod for Dragonborn players, right?

The quest will start if you shout with almost any vanilla shout. This is all you need for the mod to work. You do NOT need to get dragon souls.

If you wanted you could use console commands to get a shout, and start the quest.

Btw, is SLaVE mod for Dragonborn players, right? No, its for anybody. You just need to Shout once to start the first quest.

There's technically no such thing as "dragonborn player" as a status or anything. There's only if you started vanilla quests or not. SLaVE does not need these quests to start.

Edited May 5, 2022 by VirginMarie

*VirginMarie* · May 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Nalier said:

Actually, now that I think about it, there is one mod I enabled after starting my new playthrough

This corrupted your save. So you'd need a new game before trying to recreate the problem. Course chances are, you wont be able to.

gregaaz · May 5, 2022

7 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Btw, is SLaVE mod for Dragonborn players, right? No, its for anybody. You just need to Shout once to start the first quest.

There's technically no such thing as "dragonborn player" as a status or anything. There's only if you started vanilla quests or not. SLaVE does not need these quests to start.

One path, for example, is to play through "Isle of Mara". At the end, the PC learns an unconventional shout by becoming "the Dragonbottom" which in turn can start SLaVE when uttered.

It involves being sodomized by a dragon. Because of course it does. ?

IBAGadget · May 5, 2022

11 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

One path, for example, is to play through "Isle of Mara". At the end, the PC learns an unconventional shout by becoming "the Dragonbottom" which in turn can start SLaVE when uttered.

It involves being sodomized by a dragon. Because of course it does. ?

And where can one fine Isle of Mara?

asking for a friend ?

gregaaz · May 5, 2022

19 minutes ago, IBAGadget said:

And where can one fine Isle of Mara?

asking for a friend ?

It's here on the Lab. Might be LE only as it's an older mod, but probably easy to port. All joking aside it was actually a well written mod. Male/Male stuff isn't my main draw, so I played it with a female character but had Sexlab Hormones loaded. There's a dremora encounter early on that triggered the futanari curse and the rest of the story proceeded very naturally from there.

Edit: here's the link

Edited May 5, 2022 by gregaaz

May 5, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

The quest will start if you shout with almost any vanilla shout. This is all you need for the mod to work. You do NOT need to get dragon souls.

If you wanted you could use console commands to get a shout, and start the quest.

Btw, is SLaVE mod for Dragonborn players, right? No, its for anybody. You just need to Shout once to start the first quest.

There's technically no such thing as "dragonborn player" as a status or anything. There's only if you started vanilla quests or not. SLaVE does not need these quests to start.

OK, so I've tried SLaVE with Skyrim Unbound Redone. And they looks obviously conflicting.

Tried various settings in MCM of Skyrim Unbound, cannot obtain words from word walls. (Literally. Only word wall winding effect occured but can't get a shout/word.)

Used console commands to get a word, and casted it, get in and out of the inn, a courier didn't come.

Used console commands to force vanilla queststage to advance and did the same things, but no difference. :S

*VirginMarie* · May 5, 2022

8 minutes ago, Younhee said:

Tried various settings in MCM of Skyrim Unbound, cannot obtain words from word walls. (Literally. Only word wall winding effect occured but can't get a shout/word.)

That does not mean the word walls added by SLaVE wont work. Hard for another mod to have touched them, unless they did so explicitly.

8 minutes ago, Younhee said:

Used console commands to get a word, and casted it, get in and out of the inn, a courier didn't come.

This means you have an installation issue most likely. Or you are not using the console commands right. I think it takes a few commands to get one shout working. But if you do shout with a vanilla shout, there's nothing to stop you from using SLaVE, I would expect.

8 minutes ago, Younhee said:

Used console commands to force vanilla queststage to advance and did the same things, but no difference. :S

Never use setStage console stuff with SLaVE, you break it. To much else going on to just do that.

So as you can see above, I'm unconvinced, and think its more likely your install is bad.

What happens if you go to the Toys MCM - Setup Tab, and run the Installation Test? pass or fail ?

May 5, 2022

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

That does not mean the word walls added by SLaVE wont work. Hard for another mod to have touched them, unless they did so explicitly.

This means you have an installation issue most likely. Or you are not using the console commands right. I think it takes a few commands to get one shout working. But if you do shout with a vanilla shout, there's nothing to stop you from using SLaVE, I would expect.

Never use setStage console stuff with SLaVE, you break it. To much else going on to just do that.

So as you can see above, I'm unconvinced, and think its more likely your install is bad.

What happens if you go to the Toys MCM - Setup Tab, and run the Installation Test? pass or fail ?

'Nothing happened', so fail. :<

I've read requirement and installation section very carefully and install as the download page mentioned, but didn't work.

I've completely deleted and re-download all files. And now things showing up right in shape.

Maybe an error occured and file got corrupted while I was downloading mods..? I don't know.. I couldn't have expected it..

.. Really sorry for making a mess. (...)

And thanks for helping me. O<-<

*VirginMarie* · May 5, 2022

25 minutes ago, Younhee said:

I've completely deleted and re-download all files. And now things showing up right in shape.

Ok so good. I assume you mean you fixed it and and the install test passes now.

So let me know if Skyrim Unbound does end up working fine with SLaVE Appreciate your help with that. If its a hopeless cause I should put it in this article... Known Mod Conflicts - SLaVE . OR if there is a required workaround to use it, I should still put something in that article.

25 minutes ago, Younhee said:

Maybe an error occured and file got corrupted while I was downloading mods..? I don't know.. I couldn't have expected it..

Nope, it's never that. ZIP files have CRC checks. Its something else you ended up doing different. Reinstalling tends to mean things like different order, not overwriting files, stuff like that. If you use vortex, you should always purge and re-deploy when stuff changes.

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