toys Shout Like a Virgin Evolved SE & LE

[VirginMarie]

7 minutes ago, IBAGadget said:

Currently running through SLaVE, trying to complete all of Nocturnal's quests before getting some relief with Dibella, and have hit a bit of a snag.

 

Travelling with Serana. Got to the 'House of Horrors' quest. Serana freaks out (it's Molag Bal after all, and she has unpleasant memories of him). Upon leaving Markarth to go find the Boethiah priest, Serana talks to you about her experience and the consequences of helping Molag Bal. She asks you if it's what you really want (the power).

 

I said no.

 

This immediately fails the House of Horrors quest, and removes it from your quest list.

I try to worship at the altar to go to Nocturnal. I get the worship animation, and then nothing happens.

I try to activate Molag Bal's altar again, and nothing happens.

 

Virgin Training requires that I gain his trust, and worship at his altar. While thwarting Namira's quest still allows progression in Virgin Training, thwarting House of Horrors does not.

 

Sadly, my only non-auto saves are before I started the Virgin Training quest (I blame lack of sleep)

 

Is it possible to still continue Virgin Training without having to start all over from the beginning? Or am I totally screwed?

 

 

I'm on a break at work, so no time to give you a more detailed reply. Will do so eventually.

 

Short answer. You are totally screwed. Sorry. Can't just use set stage with this quest.

 

But what's wrong with using an auto-save? Personally I trust them. The cases where the are bad is rare. I'd risk it.

[IBAGadget]

27 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

I'm on a break at work, so no time to give you a more detailed reply. Will do so eventually.

 

Short answer. You are totally screwed. Sorry. Can't just use set stage with this quest.

 

But what's wrong with using an auto-save? Personally I trust them. The cases where the are bad is rare. I'd risk it.

sadly, my autosaves are after the quest failed. The problem with transitioning between cells - sets up a new autosave and deletes/overwrites the old one. 

 

Back to the beginning I guess.

 

Oh well, I wanted to add a few more clothing items to my game, so good a time as any to do a complete re-start I suppose.

[VirginMarie]

9 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

Hi, I would just like to report that somehow I have managed to get the exact same bug as mengque did, where only the 3rd statue is not working but 1st, 2nd and even 4th works normally.

 

The 3rd statue does seem to have become a problem report "pattern", now reported by 3 people. This feature has existed for about 4 years, but that pattern is showing up now. I've not changed it's logic in 4 years. I tend to think it's a mod conflict in your case. In the past I've also routed out people with corrupt saves and they solved by starting a new game. So it can still be that too. More on this topic below.

 

9 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

Edit: Managed to fix the busy problems by disabling auto-unequip ammo and auto-unequip shield mods. The statue still does not work.

 

I have no ideas on how those mods could cause Toys&Love to detect a busy state (it's done within Toys, not SLavE). Busy state includes things like... player controls locked, in furniture, swimming, riding, in dialogue, and Toys own "in scene" status. Using Toys MCM - Debug - Player Reset, will set state to normal if a scene were to end badly and leave a bad state, which can happen in any mod doing things like animations and locking player controls.

 

Toys&Love has a built in ammo unequipper by they way, but only works for mods using it's scenes.

 

Note that disabling these mods mid-playthrough, then making a save, will lead to a corrupt save, so testing it as a temp thing is cool, but if you need those mods off for real, its new game time.

 

6 hours ago, IBAGadget said:

it's not whether or not a mod adds or removes scripts that causes problems. You changed your load order, rendering baked in item references invalid.

 

Yes that's right. A tiny mod that does nothing, and has no script, still shifts all the mods in your LO if it has a plugin. This is all it takes. Corrupt saves are not caused by script all all, only shifting the load order... explained in more detail here...  do I really need to start a new game? / Golden Rule 

 

6 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

I see, but I do not get how could it possibly break this one specific etched tablet and leave everything else working...

 

It's probably not the cause. Like said above, we do have a pattern here. So I think we are looking for mod conflict.

Now that said, shifting your load order can and does cause this type of problem, which is why one must first rule out a corrupt save in the process of elimination.

 

6 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

The only difference I found till now is that the 3rd statue's cell has a secondary cell marked with "b". None of the other statues have that, but it is probably a coincidence.

 

I'd say this is a very strong clue actually.

Known mod conflicts for another Toys mod are here.... Known Mod Conflicts - Toy Story. Toy Story gets screwed over by lighting and sound mods that touch all the cells.

 

@gregazz Was telling me that the sound and lighting mods are modifying the top level of every freaking cell in the game. Thus they have a very wide reach in what they can break. Got one of them? I've not yet tried to understand how they are impacting Toy Story, but did do some workarounds for Toy Story (the work around is just giving up modifying anything in the cell).

 

6 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

I wanted to add some debug outputs to the etched tablet script but I am having trouble compiling it.

 

Compile requirements... Toys&Love - Mod Author's Documentation see 2nd section

Edited April 25, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, IBAGadget said:

Travelling with Serana. Got to the 'House of Horrors' quest. Serana freaks out (it's Molag Bal after all, and she has unpleasant memories of him). Upon leaving Markarth to go find the Boethiah priest, Serana talks to you about her experience and the consequences of helping Molag Bal. She asks you if it's what you really want (the power).

 

I said no.

 

This immediately fails the House of Horrors quest, and removes it from your quest list.

I try to worship at the altar to go to Nocturnal. I get the worship animation, and then nothing happens.

I try to activate Molag Bal's altar again, and nothing happens.

 

Virgin Training requires that I gain his trust, and worship at his altar. While thwarting Namira's quest still allows progression in Virgin Training, thwarting House of Horrors does not

 

Following up further on this. I'm sure this has been the case all along, but you are the first to report it. 5 year's this mod has had that potential problem and nobody found it (or if they did, did not report it)! It's likely fairly rare to run into that situation and select no. Sorry it bit you. I's a showstopper scenario that I'd like to try and solve in the future, but I'm not sure how. Maybe I can detect Serana's BS and restart the quest lol. I've put it on my list.

[IBAGadget]

36 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Following up further on this. I'm sure this has been the case all along, but you are the first to report it. 5 year's this mod has had that potential problem and nobody found it (or if they did, did not report it)! It's likely fairly rare to run into that situation and select no. Sorry it bit you. I's a showstopper scenario that I'd like to try and solve in the future, but I'm not sure how. Maybe I can detect Serana's BS and restart the quest lol. I've put it on my list.

I suspect it hasn't been run into very often, if at all, given that most quests do not have to be done in a certain order. A lot of people probably get the House of Horrors quest done within their first trip or two to Markarth before doing the Dawnguard DLC, so they wouldn't run into Serana's dialogue, and therefore the option to kill the quest as soon as you leave the city.

 

Knowing of this, I will do the House of Horrors quest earlier, before doing Dawnguard. That way the shrine is open to me worshipping it as soon as I get to it in SLaVE, and Serana won't freak out.

 

What Serana doesn't know, won't hurt me ?

[gregaaz]

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

 

@gregazz Was telling me that the sound and lighting mods are modifying the top level of every freaking cell in the game. Thus they have a very wide reach in what they can break. Got one of them? I've not yet tried to understand how they are impacting Toy Story, but did do some workarounds for Toy Story (the work around is just giving up modifying anything in the cell).

 

 

Based on what @IHaveTooManyMods described, it doesn't sounds like a top-level cell data issue. Specifically, I believe it's a conflict with the records that include the Virgin Tablet script.

 

 

This script is attached to the forms listed below, and if any other mod overrides those forms, then the conflicted table won't "count" towards activating the statue script when you try to worship. You can probably diagnose which mod(s) are conflicting this function by looking up each of these forms in xEdit.

 

 

For me, one of my tablets was conflicted by Become Jarl of Ivarstead and three (!) were conflicted by Fertility Adventures. I caught them all and patched them during installation, so I did not encounter the problem you had within my game.

 

 

If you load SLAVE after BJOI or FA, it'll work fine, but you will lose the changes those other mods make - as you can see below - which may impair their function or break them altogether. The fact that FA changes the shrine to persistent, for example, suggest that it's used by other stuff which may not work right if its a temporary ref.

 

Long story short: take this as another indicator that you should always patch your conflicts. If you cannot do so or don't want to, I recommend an automated patching utility like Wrye Bash. If that doesn't work for you, then you're going to have to choose which mod you want to work, in the event of a conflict.

Edited April 25, 2022 by gregaaz

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, gregaaz said:

 

Based on what @IHaveTooManyMods described, it doesn't sounds like a top-level cell data issue. Specifically, I believe it's a conflict with the records that include the Virgin Tablet script.

 

Ok so not a sure thing that its a lighting or sound mod like the examples in the Toy Story Conflicts.

 

1 hour ago, gregaaz said:

 

Long story short: take this as another indicator that you should always patch your conflicts. If you cannot do so or don't want to, I recommend an automated patching utility like Wrye Bash. If that doesn't work for you, then you're going to have to choose which mod you want to work, in the event of a conflict.

 

Ya that's good advice. In the case of the 2 users having the 3rd tablet not working... they don't yet know what mod is conflicting. But you give good examples.

 

There's also the option of just not bothering to fix it. This particular quest is a side quest, and does not prevent progress of anything else. However it will prevent gaining the "potion ability"... its always fun to make love to potion bottles on the Alchemy table  

Edited April 26, 2022 by VirginMarie

[gregaaz]

3 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

 

Ya that's good advice. In the case of the 2 users having the 3rd tablet not working... they don't yet know what mod is conflicting. But you give good examples.

 

Yeah, I'm interested to learn which mod(s) are conflicting. It's not Fertility Adventures since that one also conflicts shrine #2 and both users were able to complete that step. 

[IHaveTooManyMods]

12 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Ok so not a sure thing that its a lighting or sound mod like the examples in the Toy Story Conflicts.

 

 

Ya that's good advice. In the case of the 2 users having the 3rd tablet not working... they don't yet know what mod is conflicting. But you give good examples.

 

There's also the option of just not bothering to fix it. This particular quest is a side quest, and does not prevent progress of anything else. However it will prevent gaining the "potion ability"... its always fun to make love to potion bottles on the Alchemy table  

 

I am still trying to get to that part in a new game, takes a lot of time. I also have an idea for a simple workaround - adding a button to the MCM that sets all tablets as read. This will work as a workaround for pretty much all conflicting mods and allow to finish the quest while also allowing to play the incompatible mods mentioned without the need for patches.

[IHaveTooManyMods]

Just in case, I am attaching a JSON containing a list of all my mods. Regarding the auto-unequip mods, I think the game counts you as busy while the mod tries to add/remove your shield. Sometimes the mod loops and I found out removing my weapon or re-sheating it solves the problem. It is a bit glitchy but I like not wearing shield on my hand all the time.

modlist.json

[gregaaz]

35 minutes ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

 

I am still trying to get to that part in a new game, takes a lot of time. I also have an idea for a simple workaround - adding a button to the MCM that sets all tablets as read. This will work as a workaround for pretty much all conflicting mods and allow to finish the quest while also allowing to play the incompatible mods mentioned without the need for patches.

 

Out of curiosity, did you look up the MQpathtoHHShrineTablet forms and find any mods conflicting with them? Especially BFBFE, which is the one you were having trouble with.

[IHaveTooManyMods]

2 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Especially BFBFE

I am sorry but what did you mean by BFBFE? I do not see any mods that acronym could apply to.

 

And I did find it I think, SeranaDialogAddon. All the other statues have the tablet and dibella statue placed together, shrine 3 has statue in HHPathShrine03 but tablet script in HHPathShrine03b and serana seems to be overriding it. The serana entry does not even seem to be doing anything (looks almost identical to vanilla one except for version number), so I tried deleting it to see what happens. My save is still not far enough to check though.

[gregaaz]

27 minutes ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

I am sorry but what did you mean by BFBFE? I do not see any mods that acronym could apply to.

 

And I did find it I think, SeranaDialogAddon. All the other statues have the tablet and dibella statue placed together, shrine 3 has statue in HHPathShrine03 but tablet script in HHPathShrine03b and serana seems to be overriding it. The serana entry does not even seem to be doing anything (looks almost identical to vanilla one except for version number), so I tried deleting it to see what happens. My save is still not far enough to check though.

 

BFBFE is the Form ID for the tablet at station 3. It sounds like you found the right tablet in any event, as it is indeed located in Shrine03b (that particular one has the shrine right on the zone line, which is why there's a "b" zone to contain some of them - its a vanilla feature and not anything problematic). 

 

So the Serana entry is just an ITM (Identical-to-master) entry? That's fortunate, since it probably means you aren't sacrificing any functionality by letting SLAVE override it. I'll grab it to look and see what it does, but I guess if nothing else this is a good reminder of why its important to clean ITMs from every mod when you install them. 

 

EDIT: If you have already read what I wrote before under this and then deleted, please disregard. I need to do more research. 

 

Never mind, see the post below.

Edited April 26, 2022 by gregaaz

[gregaaz]

OK, @IHaveTooManyMods, you are correct that it's Serana Dialogue Addon breaking the tablet. However, in deleting the entry you may have broken something in SDA, since this is not an ITM. Serana Dialogue Addon makes BFBFE a persistent reference, which is important for some operations that don't work right with temporary records. 

 

 

To fix both mods working together, all you have to do is make a patch with the SLaVE record, then add the persistent flag to the patched version (also move the cell to D74, which is the persistent worldspace cell for Tamriel). For your convenience, I made such a patch and I've attached it below.

 

BFBFE Patch.esp

 

TL;DR version -- If Serana Dialogue Addon loads after SLAVE, it will break the statue quest. If SLAVE loads after SDA, it might break a scripted scene that triggers some specific dialogue from Serana. I only did a very basic analysis of the implications of this being blocked, but it looks like it might prevent a dialogue tree with multiple later scenes from advancing. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by gregaaz

[IHaveTooManyMods]

55 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

To fix both mods working together, all you have to do is make a patch with the SLaVE record, then add the persistent flag to the patched version (also move the cell to D74, which is the persistent worldspace cell for Tamriel). For your convenience, I made such a patch and I've attached it below.

Thank you, but wouldn't installing this patch break the current save? If it makes any difference I am using Vortex.

[gregaaz]

49 minutes ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

Thank you, but wouldn't installing this patch break the current save? If it makes any difference I am using Vortex.

 

If you put this patch at the end of your load order, it is 100% safe to install on MO2. On Vortex, you must make sure that program's insane auto-sorting behavior does not move it to elsewhere in your load order. If it does, then it is a risky install. Basically, just make sure the patch is the last file in your load order (or the last file before terminal mods like Occlusion.esp) and you're fine.

[VirginMarie]

8 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

I also have an idea for a simple workaround - adding a button to the MCM that sets all tablets as read. This will work as a workaround for pretty much all conflicting mods and allow to finish the quest while also allowing to play the incompatible mods mentioned without the need for patches.

 

Yes that's an ok work around, or similar would be where the MCM option is "Disable need to read etched stone".

 

The reason I say its just ok, and not great, is that when I look for workarounds, I look for where the user does not end up stuck, confused, and looking for support. I figure only 1 in 10 even ask for support. The problem with an MCM solution is that people are not very likely gong to think, hey, this is probably a mod conflict, maybe the MCM has a work around.  They will look at the quest journal, maybe, but not the MCM. They are going to just be.. fuck, it does not work . Did you you search the MCM?  

 

So in this case, the only workaround I can think of is where I just remove the requirement to read the etched stone entirely. Sad, but its the way to kill the problem. Not sure I wanna do that, and I may still just throw in the MCM option. Its on my list now, to do something.

 

3 hours ago, IHaveTooManyMods said:

Thank you, but wouldn't installing this patch break the current save? If it makes any difference I am using Vortex.

 

If using Vortex, how do I add a mod at the end of my load order?

[IBAGadget]

7 hours ago, gregaaz said:

OK, @IHaveTooManyMods, you are correct that it's Serana Dialogue Addon breaking the tablet. However, in deleting the entry you may have broken something in SDA, since this is not an ITM. Serana Dialogue Addon makes BFBFE a persistent reference, which is important for some operations that don't work right with temporary records. 

 

 

To fix both mods working together, all you have to do is make a patch with the SLaVE record, then add the persistent flag to the patched version (also move the cell to D74, which is the persistent worldspace cell for Tamriel). For your convenience, I made such a patch and I've attached it below.

 

BFBFE Patch.esp 1.69 kB · 1 download

 

TL;DR version -- If Serana Dialogue Addon loads after SLAVE, it will break the statue quest. If SLAVE loads after SDA, it might break a scripted scene that triggers some specific dialogue from Serana. I only did a very basic analysis of the implications of this being blocked, but it looks like it might prevent a dialogue tree with multiple later scenes from advancing. 

I did have this same problem once on an earlier playthrough, but had other issues that resulted in nuking the playthrough (CotN Winterhold breaks Nelacar in Toy Story), so I didn't find out then what the problem was. Thank you for finding this, I wouldn't have even known where to look (not too familiar with SSEEdit)

 

I do have SDA in my game, so I'm going to toss in this patch and hopefully I won't have an issue when I finally get to the statues. And hopefully I don't freeze to death courtesy of Frostfall.

[IHaveTooManyMods]

BTW to avoid Vortex screwing stuff up I just straight up edited both SLaVE to contain the persistence (and changed the cell value) and deleted it from SDA. No mods added or removed. I have yet to get to that part of the story though because dibella is taking her time with events.

Edited April 27, 2022 by IHaveTooManyMods

[duknazill]

So, i have a problem with the mod, for perspective i am doing this in a new clean save, i don't have any sexlab mods intalled, i did all the requirements, i have the most updated version of toys mods and i belive my load order is correct, the thing is when i shout the npc runs at me and starts dialogue, there is no npc lines in the conversation and she don't give me the letter so i can read, everytime i shout she resets and do all the things again

[VirginMarie]

51 minutes ago, duknazill said:

 when i shout the npc runs at me and starts dialogue, there is no npc lines in the conversation and she don't give me the letter so i can read, everytime i shout she resets and do all the things again

 

From the description, I can't tell what part of what quest you are speaking of. 

 

Which NPC?

Starts which dialogue? 

 

If you are at a particular point in a quest, name the quest (as you see it in the Quest Journal), and name the current objective shown in that quest... exactly the name and objective as worded in the game please. Or use a screenshot.

[duknazill]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

(as you see it in the Quest Journal),

sorry i was dumb to forget to tell these things, it is the quest at the very start, after you kill the first dragon and use the first shout, the girl runs at you , the dialogue starts but there is no dialogue lines and it was supposed to deliver me a letter but the quest gives me nothing, i would like to tell you the name of the quest but it doesn't show in the journal, the mod is showing and working normally in the MCM

[VirginMarie]

41 minutes ago, duknazill said:

sorry i was dumb to forget to tell these things, it is the quest at the very start, after you kill the first dragon and use the first shout, the girl runs at you , the dialogue starts but there is no dialogue lines and it was supposed to deliver me a letter but the quest gives me nothing, i would like to tell you the name of the quest but it doesn't show in the journal, the mod is showing and working normally in the MCM

1. In Toys MCM - Setup Tab - run the installation test. Does it pass or fail?
2. In SLaVE MCM - First tab - run the installation test. Does it pass or fail?

These will help us know if things are installed correctly. Fail would mean gotta fix that, and then start a new game. Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed

 

If the tests pass... next...

Use Toys MCM... Debug tab... Player Reset. This is to ensure you are in a normal state with nothing to block dialogue starting. Now try it again.

If dialogue with your first meeting with Cassia does not work still, its most likely that you have a corrupt save. So here's more about that...

 

You say  i am doing this in a new clean save...

A "new clean save" means different things to different people.  When you first installed Toys, you must start a new game (clean save procedures that some people use is bad and not a new game). Must be a new game where you press the new button. Did you do that, or something else? When install instructions say start a new game, do I really need to start a new game? / Golden Rule

 

Then, after the new game, if you make changes to your load order since the new game, you corrupt your save. Golden Rule. Did you break the golden rule?

 

 

If this does not help you, only way I can help is to see your Papyrus Log. How to get a Papyrus Log?

We want a log for a game session where you... start from desktop.... load a save before the problem.... recreate the problem....  Run the Toys MCM setup tab Installation Test... Exit to desktop... grab that log

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by VirginMarie

[duknazill]

hi again, thanks for putting time to solve this issue, i runned the toys instalation test and it fails, so i checked Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed.

 

After that i made sure that i was following the right steps and re-downloaded all toys mods and followed the steps on the page

 

FNIS runs fine and it shows all toys mods.

i made a new save.

i double checked all the requirements

i'm not using sexlab

i sorted my load order with loot from MO

 

So i got to the game, runned the toys test again and it fails to play the animation, i did this with all toys mods installed and some extras sexlab animations

Edited April 29, 2022 by duknazill

[duknazill]

15 minutes ago, duknazill said:

hi again, thanks for putting time to solve this issue, i runned the toys instalation test and it fails, so i checked Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed.

 

After that i made sure that i was following the right steps and re-downloaded all toys mods and followed the steps on the page

 

FNIS runs fine and it shows all toys mods.

i made a new save.

i double checked all the requirements

i'm not using sexlab

i sorted my load order with loot from MO

 

So i got to the game, runned the toys test again and it fails to play the animation, i did this with all toys mods installed and some extras sexlab animations

i'm updating the post with my papyrus logs

Papyrus.0.log

Edited April 29, 2022 by duknazill