moody132 Posted March 16, 2022 Posted March 16, 2022 2 hours ago, TrollAutokill said: Version 2.7.3 is out - corrected a few bugs regarding slave interaction with furniture - added a dialogue and a debug option to remove crime faction - well trained slaves will forget their crime faction - slaves should react to the player giving or taking jewelry from them Excellent. I just finished figuring out what playthrough to do now and configuring MCM Here is LE version Install oryginal, then overwrite it with my files. Diary Of Mine 2.7.3 LE.rar 4
terrorofmorrowind Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 5:52 PM, TrollAutokill said: Which version ? SE or LE ? It was on SE 2.6.2. So yeah, not the newest one.
BloodDollMaria Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 3:59 PM, TrollAutokill said: My guess is, I just forgot to include the script. Wait for next update. I tried using 2.7.3 and the kneeling situation still did not change... On 3/15/2022 at 3:59 PM, TrollAutokill said: Which ones? Spankme, HandsBehindStand, etc.!
Libita Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 I think I read somewhere in this thread that you shouldn't enslave followers. That would be too bad, since that is the main way to get some custom-crafted lookers into the game. What's the problem with that? And can I circumvent it somehow?
Gukahn Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Libita said: I think I read somewhere in this thread that you shouldn't enslave followers. That would be too bad, since that is the main way to get some custom-crafted lookers into the game. What's the problem with that? And can I circumvent it somehow? Its meant when they are your active followers. I enslave followers on a daily bases and sell the best ones to jarls ? Never had an issue Edited March 17, 2022 by Gukahn
moody132 Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Libita said: I think I read somewhere in this thread that you shouldn't enslave followers. That would be too bad, since that is the main way to get some custom-crafted lookers into the game. What's the problem with that? And can I circumvent it somehow? Well i guess it will AI packages mess. I mean if you enslave lets say Lydia and never take her as follower then it's propably fine. But if you recruit her, enslave her, let her go, repeatibly then i would expect problems. Download some NPC replacer, Bijin, Pandorable, or whatever, My people of Skyrim by inago777 i think have some replacer for bandits/enemies. Botox of Skyrim can replace almost every single NPC in entire game and have even support for mods, but i think Botox faces are generated, not hand-made. Or, you can just copy your selected NPC record to new esp, place it somewhere in the world or not and spawn it by console then enslave this version. This should be safe. This way you can do twins Edited March 17, 2022 by moody132 1
Libita Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Gukahn said: Its meant when they are your active followers. I enslave followers on a daily bases and sell the best ones to jarls ? Never had an issue So I could have them follow, throw them out, enslave and from then on use as normal slave? 9 minutes ago, moody132 said: Or, you can just copy your selected NPC record to new esp, place it somewhere in the world or not and spawn it by console then enslave this version. This should be safe. This way you can do twins How would that differ from having them inside a normal NPC mod? I don't have to do Lydia, as she's part of the original Skyrim, but I would love to take, e. g., Yeriel (or probably some more up-to-date follower mod).
Gukahn Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Libita said: So I could have them follow, throw them out, enslave and from then on use as normal slave? I never let them follow me, i enslave them right away or use some other bullshit to get them away from a crowd. But i have the cloning feature active for uniques and the cleaning from factions feature too, so the moment i enslave them, they are not the original anymore. Kinda the same thing moody132 said just without the extra steps.
CliftonJD Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, moody132 said: Or, you can just copy your selected NPC record to new esp, place it somewhere in the world or not and spawn it by console then enslave this version. This should be safe. This way you can do twins this can be dangerous if 1 is a follower marked as unique, enslaving a twin of the follower can be almost as bad as enslaving the follower cuz skyrim has trouble differentiating uniques so any scripts running on the follower will also run on the copy
TrollAutokill Posted March 17, 2022 Author Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Libita said: I think I read somewhere in this thread that you shouldn't enslave followers. That would be too bad, since that is the main way to get some custom-crafted lookers into the game. What's the problem with that? And can I circumvent it somehow? The problem is two parts: 1) When you enslave an actor it will be attached to the pahe slave in an alias. 2) If the same actor is attached into another alias from another quest then you might run into trouble. The actor being into two aliases at the same time might create problems. Actually if packages are attached to those two aliases you will have a package conflict and weird things will happen. ≠===============≠ So, dismiss a follower before enslaving and don't enslave an actor who is in an active quest alias. Actors who are just part of another quest dialogues are ok. If you don't clone and clean their factions, otherwise you would almost certainly screw up the quest. Hence the MCM options in DoM to allow unique actors to be not cloned and not cleaned. Dark side quests with kill targets are also ok, but you will need to clone them to trigger the death event. With DoM you can do that after enslavement in the "Let's have a serious talk" -> "Someone wants you dead" dialogue.
moody132 Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 46 minutes ago, Libita said: How would that differ from having them inside a normal NPC mod? I don't have to do Lydia, as she's part of the original Skyrim, but I would love to take, e. g., Yeriel (or probably some more up-to-date follower mod). Ok, i assumed you mean some vanilla follower with replacer mod. No difference at all i think, to be fair, i just meant it as a precaution, didnt want you to edit vanilla esps, or some big replacer esps, i think it is safer to make own changes in separate esp. if something goes down with it, you can disable it, and it would be propably much less harm than disabling 100+npc replacer esp. And also i assumed that you want to leave oryginal version of said npc intact
moody132 Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, CliftonJD said: this can be dangerous if 1 is a follower marked as unique, enslaving a twin of the follower can be almost as bad as enslaving the follower cuz skyrim has trouble differentiating uniques so any scripts running on the follower will also run on the copy I didn't knew that. But how does engine know/why engine thinks, that this is the same NPC? if it has different formID, editorID and name shouldn't it be a treated as a completly new NPC?
sidfu1 Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, moody132 said: Ok, i assumed you mean some vanilla follower with replacer mod. No difference at all i think, to be fair, i just meant it as a precaution, didnt want you to edit vanilla esps, or some big replacer esps, i think it is safer to make own changes in separate esp. if something goes down with it, you can disable it, and it would be propably much less harm than disabling 100+npc replacer esp. And also i assumed that you want to leave oryginal version of said npc intact just follow 1 simple rule for enslaving followers and you shouldn't ever have a issue..... dont enslave if you plan to use them or have used them. for those you dont enslave you can use this to spice up them for when your not using https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/20227
CliftonJD Posted March 17, 2022 Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, moody132 said: Or, you can just copy your selected NPC record to new esp, place it somewhere in the world or not and spawn it by console then enslave this version. This should be safe. This way you can do twins 54 minutes ago, moody132 said: I didn't knew that. But how does engine know/why engine thinks, that this is the same NPC? if it has different formID, editorID and name shouldn't it be a treated as a completly new NPC? misread it the first time when you said to copy the npc and use console to spawn it i thought you were using the console to clone it. if you put it in as an actual different copy in the esp. then yes this method will allow you to have 2 copies better than cloning
Antiope_Apollonia Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Sorry for dumping a huge wall of somewhat dated comments here, but this is the first chance I've had to visit the Lab in weeks. A nuclear-armed terrorist started murdering my neighbours, so although I could use the diversion now more than ever, I've had my hands rather too full for video game escapism. Now that I have a moment to catch my breath, though, I'm going to go ahead and work through the recent pages of the thread, and I'll also go ahead and drop the notes I was collecting before the war; my notes are based on version 2.5.5, but hopefully some of them will still be relevant. On 2/9/2022 at 4:02 PM, TrollAutokill said: - Put back player attack on slave as always a punishment. PAHE changed that to only if player is not in combat, but that's incompatible with the new call for help feature. I haven't gotten to try the new call for help stuff to formulate an opinion on that yet, but I know for certain I'm not going to like this side effect one bit. Accidentally punishing slaves in combat was extremely annoying, and the change you're reverting was a really big deal. If there's no other way to work around this conflict—not sure I exactly understand what it is yet—I'm hopeful that this can be MCM-toggled, too. I used to hate accidentally punishing my best-trained slaves during combat, and it used to happen all the damned time. On 2/9/2022 at 4:02 PM, TrollAutokill said: - Friendship now takes into account family and relationship ranks. Slaves will report their friends as family when applicable. Yes finally you can use HCHHS and they will cry for their sisters being punished! Except HCHHS doesn't have their relationship set correctly... Maybe a patch is in order! This sounds interesting. Isn't HCHHS fatally broken for SE, though? I thought it was you who figured out that it was what was causing some critical bug for me when I tried it some months back. And I think you had found some way to fix it for yourself, but it wasn't something I knew enough to replicate? Anyway, more comments on friendship in my notes below. On 2/9/2022 at 5:23 PM, TrollAutokill said: I am now working on a dialogue to sell back a slave to family members. I am guessing it will be more a kind of loan... What about family members who are more trouble than they're worth? O_o (See below) I rather doubt Haelga would want Svana back... On 2/18/2022 at 8:20 AM, TrollAutokill said: You're followers will still stop runaway slaves if you have the combat alarm option on. This sounds interesting. Can you elaborate? On 2/18/2022 at 9:46 PM, CliftonJD said: not sure if i'm getting you, might be just agreeing with you, but aygas has too many refusals("sorry, not interested"). something to pick up the slack where aygas refuses to buy the slave would be nice I have no where near the skills to write anything like this, but anticipating that DoM seems to be developing in the direction of integrating replacements/alternatives for the core functionality of HSH and AYGAS, I've been working on a list of ideas for what an integrated AYGAS alternative could do to improve things. I'll go ahead and leave it here, though it's a relatively early WIP: Spoiler The way AYGAS handles sales is probably its weakest point—it's an endless source of frustration. Better method of sales: I think the best solution would look something like this: "Ever dreamt of having a servant?" → "What would you offer for these slaves?" → Info pane displaying what the buyer will pay for each slave in the follower state If there's room, including a column on the info pane for the slave's "book value" for comparison would be a very nice convenience, but that might be too much clutter. Then, "Ever dreamt of having a servant?" → "We've got a deal." → HSH-style "point her out" method to actually sell, like how sales in the mines work. The other solution I can envisage would look like this: "Ever dreamt of having a servant?" → "Do any of these slaves interest you?" → Only valid sales appear in list, and the list is scrollable rather than being limited to five. (You might still want to have an info pane option here, too.) Better sale calculations: NPCs are virtually always willing to buy slaves... if you're willing to sell them cheaply enough. Different NPCs have various preferences, e.g., sexes, races, training Maybe this would just be a hidden value, but it could be nice to have this revealed through dialogue, e.g., "What kinds of slaves do you you prefer?" This dialogue could potentially also generate an info pane. Obviously, NPCs would be willing to pay more for slaves that better match their preferences. Furthermore, NPCs would be more likely to be satisfied with the purchase of slaves that better match their preferences, although there should probably be some random variability here. These preferences might be configurable in the NPCs' .json files. Better interaction with other slaveholders and their slaves: Can track down slaves you've sold. AYGAS just gives you a dead-end "I no longer have that slave"—well where did she go? MCM options to configure the rate of re-sales would be valuable. When selling a slave, it'd be cool if you could give e.g., a 10% discount in exchange for "first refusal" on any future sales, i.e., the new owner could not sell the slave without offering her to you first. Sold slaves remember you. We spoke about this idea a while back, and you seemed to like it. It seems like it'd be really hard to do with the current, unsupported AYGAS. But if we had an integrated alternative, it would be relatively straightforward to build this in. Slaves react to seeing you again based on a combination of your previous relationship and their current relationship with their new owner. Mistreated slaves who hated you will just react with exasperation. Mistreated slaves who loved or were loyal to you will beg you to buy them back. Well-treated slaves who hated you will react with disgust, maybe tell you to go away, maybe physically hide behind their new owner. Well-treated slaves who loved or were loyal to you will whisper something along the lines of, "It's always nice to see you again, Mistress." Build your reputation as a slaveholder: e.g., "Cruel" vs. "Gentle" Develops as you sell slaves based on how you treated them before sale. Affects how newly purchased slaves view you, perhaps in combination with their personalities. Able to talk to slaves owned by others. For slaves who don't have a prior relationship with you, their responses are determined by a combination of your reputation and their current owners' treatment of them. Similar to your reputation, NPCs also have a "slaveholder personality"—configurable in their DoM .json; perhaps a 0–100 stat from "cruel" to "gentle"—which combines with their level of purchase satisfaction to determine how they treat a slave. Their slaveholder personality might be unknowable before they've ever owned a slave, but you could gain insight into it by speaking to slaves they own. Perhaps two or three slaves would enable you to ascertain their exact personality. This might be harder to implement, but you could have some really touching moments when slaves are reunited with friends (especially best friends) who've been sold, either by purchasing their friend back, selling them to the same owner, or simply meeting only briefly. Bonus points if the reunion is further impacted by the slaveholder personalities of the friends' owners. Better configurability of starting conditions: Choose level separately for each city. Choose how many slaves initially populate each city. Configure the generation of new slaves. Set the rate of generation and a cap on the maximum number of slaves in the city beyond which new slaves will not be generated. Equip generated slaves using an outfit instead of a script so that it's easy for users to build a custom patch for. Needing to know how to script to edit outfits in AYGAS is a big disadvantage. Even better, it would be great to have an MCM option to set the default slave outfit that generated slaves would wear; this might be most easily done by copying the outfit of a targeted slave? AYGAS prostitution is a nice, lightweight prostitution system that I quite like, but given the existence of dedicated prostitution mods like TDF for people who care a lot about this gameplay, I don't think replicating AYGAS's prostitution system would be a priority. I don't know about alternatives for the pit fights, but I can't recall ever seeing that feature discussed in all my time with this suite of mods, so I'm guessing I wouldn't be alone in not really missing that, either. Those extra systems are nice extras, but having a better-functioning system that's fully integrated with DoM's core features and just handles slave sales and ambient slaves in cities would be an amazing feature. People could even still use AYGAS, too, if they want just those features, and with the right MCM configuration, it wouldn't necessarily conflict. On 3/10/2022 at 11:44 PM, Kalysto said: Can't imagine yet an organic and generic way to be able to enslave an NPC in an immersive way. @CliftonJD and I were riffing on this a bit before the world got in the way. I generally avoid enslaving non-aggressive unique NPCs for the same, aforementioned immersion-breaking reasons. But there are some NPCs for whom there would be good lore-friendly ways to enslave them. Two of most obvious examples are Bralsa Drel and Svana Far-Shield, but I've been assembling a list. No promises on when, but what was discussed is that I'm going to write all the quest dialogues for how the NPCs would enter slavery—e.g., Bralsa would voluntarily accept your collar as an alternative to her miserable life and to keep her clean, whereas Svana's aunt Haelga would be happy to be rid of her ward after Svana's quest makes her more trouble than she's worth. And then once I've done the writing, Clifton said he knows how to do the technical side of implementing the enslavement through dialogue. I've started the work, but the world got really fucking crazy all of a sudden, so no promises for when it'll be finished; it sounds like right up the alley of what you're interested in, though. On 3/10/2022 at 11:44 PM, Kalysto said: Regarding bandits and all NPCs that are hostile, I still think that you should have to defeat them in order to bend them to your will. I've tried the weapon enchants that enslaves in DOM but a simple hit just does the work and if the NPC is really tough it breaks the immersion. I see the weapons as basically being debugging tools—they are indeed way too overpowered. The Paralyse spell pretty substantially trivialises capture, too, but that seems reasonable enough given what an advanced spell it is and that it seems quite believable in light of what the spell actually does. For the most part, I think DoM's "Abduct" hotkey feels like a pretty balanced mechanic with the exception of the NPC's friends not reacting to it—the new changes seem to have resolved that issue, but I haven't experienced them yet. I had a thing in my notes about adding 1 damage to the Abduct feature, but these changes sound like a much more robust solution. I'm not really sure what to expect playing with them yet, though. On 3/11/2022 at 7:20 AM, DocClox said: Alternatively, the Slavers' Spellbook has a Mark For Capture spell that drops them into bleedout when they hit zero health. So you fight them normally and afterward capture the ones you marked. PAHE has a mappable hotkey for "Mark for Enslavement", too, but I've found it to be quite buggy whenever I've tried it, so I don't use it regularly, and I don't always remember to re-test it with new versions and such. I would love it if the hotkey worked reliably as you describe the spell. I assumed the PAHE feature was basically a clone of the spell, but if the spell works substantially better, maybe it's enough to be worth downloading a whole mod just for the one spell... On 3/11/2022 at 12:26 PM, pinky6225 said: How much are you intending to expand that feature? as some different options depending on the state/training of the slave you returned might be interesting Your ideas sound very much in line with what I had in mind for a DoM-integrated AYGAS Redux Lite. On 3/16/2022 at 3:55 PM, TrollAutokill said: - well trained slaves will forget their crime faction Can you define "well trained" in this context? Are we talking "Resignation >60"? On 3/16/2022 at 3:55 PM, TrollAutokill said: - slaves should react to the player giving or taking jewelry from them Does it matter what keywords the jewellery items have? --- Here's the dump from my notes file—relatively short this time: "[Slave] gasps as your hand approaches her tighs thighs" My slave drank a "full bottle of Slaughterfish Scales"... I guess because "ale" is contained in "scale"? When you order a slave to have a drink, instead of automatically searching the player's inventory, why not model this off of giving gifts to Hearthfire children, where it opens an inventory window with only valid items, and you can give what you want? Right now, it often chooses my more rare/valuable spirits even though I have a huge store of Ale/Wine/Mead. That's not desirable behaviour. An alternative would be to have it prioritise the cheapest or most plentiful alcohol in your inventory, but that seems more cumbersome than just letting the player handle it conveniently through a system like Hearthfire gifts. It would be nice if naked in "public" (i.e., cities, towns, inns, etc.), slaves would have a high chance to feel ashamed and would regularly cover themselves until fully Humiliation trained. That way Humiliation training could progress more like Anger and Fear currently do. Maybe it's too late in development to change something like this, but I can't help but keep wondering whether "Loyal", "In Love", and "Broken" should be in the "I am nervous", "I am hysterical", etc. "slot" rather than in the mood slot. It seems like slaves in these "advanced moods" often have hidden "secondary moods" that we can only guess at based on their behaviour, and at the same time, for example, being both "In Love" and "Hysterical" simultaneously seems a little strange. Can you clarify what effect promises—e.g., "to be gentle"—are meant to have? I haven't really experimented with this feature, mostly because I don't know what it's intended to do. Since I usually am a pretty gentle slaveholder, I guess promising to be gentle should be beneficial in some way? On 2/3/2022 at 12:06 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said: Newly captured slaves seem to be retroactively forming friendships with sold (and deceased, presumably?) slaves. Has anything been done about this? I didn't see it mentioned in the release notes. In 2.5.5, slaves are consistently reporting friendships with slaves they've never met and whom I no longer own. Beyond that, I've been thinking more about the friendship mechanic, and I have some ideas: The biggest thing to develop here would seem to be how friendships are formed. Having all of a slave's friendships determined upon enslavement is really unrealistic, and there are a lot of missed opportunities in that, too. Newly captured slaves should start with no friends, but perhaps with a high chance of forming friendships with other slaves enslaved at roughly the same time or in roughly the same location. I'm not sure exactly what can be tracked here to use for this. Conceptually, one idea would be something simple like slaves captured within three minutes of one another. Another possibility would be slaves captured in the same cell. Another might be slaves with the same set of factions prior to enslavement. The basic idea here is to have some proxy for people who might have known each other before you captured them. You know much better than I do what's actually possible to this end. Slaves are more likely to become friends the more time they spend together. This could be limited to slaves who are in the follower state with the player at the same time for most of the benefit, but if there's a way to track slaves who are waiting in the same cell, living in the same HSH house, etc., that'd be great, too. The handful of slaves who've spent most of my playthrough with me should be more likely to have relationships with each other than they do with slaves they met briefly before I left them in a home somewhere. Bonus points if slaves who fight together have an even higher chance of forming friendships. Anyone who's served will tell you brothers/sisters in arms are especially strong bonds. Slaves are more likely to befriend friends of their friends. Slaves are less likely to make additional friends the more existing friends they already have. Stated another way, the odds of forming new friendships are inversely proportional to the number of existing friendships. It'd be great if there were two tiers of friendship. First tier friendships might break/fade if the slaves don't see each other for a period of time, but second tier friendships are forever. First tier friendships would form relatively easily, but second tier friendships would be more rare, like "In Love" status for relationships with the player. Selling a second tier friend might trigger some kind of breakdown in the friends. Maybe just call these "friends" and "best friends"—English has frustratingly poor vocabulary for expressing this compared to other languages. The diminishing returns on new friendships would allow for a much greater number of tier one "friends" than of tier two "best friends"—maybe three or so would be the asymptotic limit for the latter. It might be interesting to have dialogue options along the lines of, "I don't want you spending time with [Slave] anymore," which would either end the friendship or trigger some kind of emotional crisis. Along the same lines, you could have dialogue to try to facilitate the formation of friendships between particular slaves. Maybe something like, "Why don't you and [Slave] get to know each other?" or "Why don't you play with [Slave] for a while?" Bonus points if this leads to some actual animated interaction. These dialogues would likely only be available at 60+ Resignation, and have success chance scale with both Resignation training and mood. They should probably also be limited to slaves both of whom are in the follower state. Slaves with friends who are better trained than they are in a given skill receive a small bonus to their rate of training in that skill. The bonus is a bit larger for best friends. Edited March 18, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia 2
Libita Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 Wow, thanks @Gukahn, @moody132, @TrollAutokill, @sidfu1 and @CliftonJD for the quick and thorough replies. I will play around with this once I am back home. 1
w0wlol Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 8:15 PM, TrollAutokill said: Great. Don't forget to test the quest! I tried the quest, everything seems to work fine, except for one thing. Note that I only tested it once. After taking care of Drelas, I found Kim and decided to follow Olava's wishes, I trained her until she was 100 in everything (except combat) and in love. After that I talked to Olava who said that she didn't learn anything from her adventure... Quest completed... so now here I am with an extra slave following me... shouldn't Olava ask her back ? or shouldn't there be an option to sell Kim to her as a familly member ? It is a nit-pic, but it feels a bit 'incomplete'
DocClox Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 10 hours ago, TrollAutokill said: So, dismiss a follower before enslaving and don't enslave an actor who is in an active quest alias. Anyone wants to test this, try enslaving Lallette the Vampire in Laid to Rest. Nine times out of ten, Thonnir comes steaming up, shouts "Lallette! She's a ... Vampire!", and then tries to sell you some lumber. "Doing a spot of building, ay?" The tenth time he spawns in Bleak Falls Barrow for some reason. but that could just be me.
DocClox Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: PAHE has a mappable hotkey for "Mark for Enslavement", too, but I've found it to be quite buggy whenever I've tried it, so I don't use it regularly, and I don't always remember to re-test it with new versions and such. I would love it if the hotkey worked reliably as you describe the spell. Actually, I believe the PAHE hotkey came first. The spellbook version was coded from scratch. Sometimes you have to use the brand spell to finalize the enslavement, but I've not known it fail. 4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: I assumed the PAHE feature was basically a clone of the spell, but if the spell works substantially better, maybe it's enough to be worth downloading a whole mod just for the one spell... It's got some other fun stuff. Spells to peg arousal at maximum, user definable tattoo livery applied by spell, summonable restraints, a spell to peg player arousal at zero, fertility enhancers, stuff like that. It started as a collection of spells to do things that I'd been doing with console and MCM menus, and I wanted to wrap them in spells for the immersion value. 1
TrollAutokill Posted March 18, 2022 Author Posted March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, w0wlol said: I tried the quest, everything seems to work fine, except for one thing. Note that I only tested it once. After taking care of Drelas, I found Kim and decided to follow Olava's wishes, I trained her until she was 100 in everything (except combat) and in love. After that I talked to Olava who said that she didn't learn anything from her adventure... Quest completed... so now here I am with an extra slave following me... shouldn't Olava ask her back ? or shouldn't there be an option to sell Kim to her as a familly member ? It is a nit-pic, but it feels a bit 'incomplete' Yes it is, I am still debugging that part.
TrollAutokill Posted March 18, 2022 Author Posted March 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Sorry for dumping a huge wall of somewhat dated comments here, but this is the first chance I've had to visit the Lab in weeks. A nuclear-armed terrorist started murdering my neighbours, so although I could use the diversion now more than ever, I've had my hands rather too full for video game escapism. hope you and your family and friends are safe. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: I haven't gotten to try the new call for help stuff to formulate an opinion on that yet, but I know for certain I'm not going to like this side effect one bit. Accidentally punishing slaves in combat was extremely annoying, and the change you're reverting was a really big deal. If there's no other way to work around this conflict—not sure I exactly understand what it is yet—I'm hopeful that this can be MCM-toggled, too. I used to hate accidentally punishing my best-trained slaves during combat, and it used to happen all the damned time. There is a toggle in the MCM DoM debug tab. Next version will have the default ignore friendly hit in combat, except for slaves calling for help. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: This sounds interesting. Isn't HCHHS fatally broken for SE, though? I thought it was you who figured out that it was what was causing some critical bug for me when I tried it some months back. And I think you had found some way to fix it for yourself, but it wasn't something I knew enough to replicate? Anyway, more comments on friendship in my notes below. Anyway HCHHS doesn't have any relationship set. Plus that would require patches for RDO and other mods. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: What about family members who are more trouble than they're worth? O_o (See below) I rather doubt Haelga would want Svana back... Family members are bought if the relationship is >0. So if they hate each other they will not propose to buy back. Friends can also buy back slaves. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: This sounds interesting. Can you elaborate? A slave raising the alarm is set by Skyrim to attack the player, so your followers will attack the slave. The first hit will immediately calm the slave. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Can you define "well trained" in this context? Are we talking "Resignation >60"? No. "Well trained" is mood based. Actually in this case it means : terrified, shocked, broken, loyal and inlove (including depressed and jealous) 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Does it matter what keywords the jewellery items have? At least one of the default Skyrim keywords: ArmorJewelry, JewelryExpensive, ClothingJewelry The effect depends on the object value. Values below 50 gold are often ignored and anything above 2500 gold will amount to the same. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: --- Here's the dump from my notes file—relatively short this time: "[Slave] gasps as your hand approaches her tighs thighs" Corrected 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: My slave drank a "full bottle of Slaughterfish Scales"... I guess because "ale" is contained in "scale"? Yes, but who are we to judge? 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: When you order a slave to have a drink, instead of automatically searching the player's inventory, why not model this off of giving gifts to Hearthfire children, where it opens an inventory window with only valid items, and you can give what you want? Right now, it often chooses my more rare/valuable spirits even though I have a huge store of Ale/Wine/Mead. That's not desirable behaviour. An alternative would be to have it prioritise the cheapest or most plentiful alcohol in your inventory, but that seems more cumbersome than just letting the player handle it conveniently through a system like Hearthfire gifts. Good point. I will think about it. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: It would be nice if naked in "public" (i.e., cities, towns, inns, etc.), slaves would have a high chance to feel ashamed and would regularly cover themselves until fully Humiliation trained. That way Humiliation training could progress more like Anger and Fear currently do. That's exactly how it is. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Maybe it's too late in development to change something like this, but I can't help but keep wondering whether "Loyal", "In Love", and "Broken" should be in the "I am nervous", "I am hysterical", etc. "slot" rather than in the mood slot. It seems like slaves in these "advanced moods" often have hidden "secondary moods" that we can only guess at based on their behaviour, and at the same time, for example, being both "In Love" and "Hysterical" simultaneously seems a little strange. Emotionally stable/nervous/hysterical messages are only hint at how close a slave is to be in shock. So yes they can be inlove and hysterical. Resolute/want this to end/falling apart is how close they are to being broken. Enemy/not sure/on your side is for how close to loyal Disgusted/confused/falling in love is how close to inlove 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Can you clarify what effect promises—e.g., "to be gentle"—are meant to have? I haven't really experimented with this feature, mostly because I don't know what it's intended to do. Since I usually am a pretty gentle slaveholder, I guess promising to be gentle should be beneficial in some way? This is listed as non-functional in the mod description. So no effect. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Has anything been done about this? I didn't see it mentioned in the release notes. In 2.5.5, slaves are consistently reporting friendships with slaves they've never met and whom I no longer own. The problem you report would be related to a corrupted slave array. Weird friendships would be a consequence, not the cause. Note that in last version, - Slaves can only form friendship with slaves in the same cell. It might be that you think they never met, but Skyrim is rather limited on this aspect. - Slaves can remember their friends even if they are dead or if you sold them. They should mention them as past friends though - Old friends coming back to the player slave pool will make instant bonds with their old friends if they stayed in the pool. - Friendship takes into account Skyrim relationships. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Beyond that, I've been thinking more about the friendship mechanic, and I have some ideas: The biggest thing to develop here would seem to be how friendships are formed. Having all of a slave's friendships determined upon enslavement is really unrealistic, and there are a lot of missed opportunities in that, too. New friendships are formed when slaves are together and with the player (slaves in a different cell are ignored) only at enslavement and when entering a new cell. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Newly captured slaves should start with no friends, but perhaps with a high chance of forming friendships with other slaves enslaved at roughly the same time or in roughly the same location. I'm not sure exactly what can be tracked here to use for this. Conceptually, one idea would be something simple like slaves captured within three minutes of one another. Another possibility would be slaves captured in the same cell. Another might be slaves with the same set of factions prior to enslavement. The basic idea here is to have some proxy for people who might have known each other before you captured them. You know much better than I do what's actually possible to this end. Friendship at enslavement uses family and friends relationships. Same CrimeFaction is also used, if not cleared. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Slaves are more likely to become friends the more time they spend together. This could be limited to slaves who are in the follower state with the player at the same time for most of the benefit, but if there's a way to track slaves who are waiting in the same cell, living in the same HSH house, etc., that'd be great, too. The handful of slaves who've spent most of my playthrough with me should be more likely to have relationships with each other than they do with slaves they met briefly before I left them in a home somewhere. They are more likely to form friendship if they spend time together, since they will get more random check on friendship. But if they are not a match they will never become friend. Also if they find better match, the friendship will be lost, since DoM is limited to 4 friends and 4 past friends. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Slaves are more likely to befriend friends of their friends. That's already in the friendship check. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Slaves are less likely to make additional friends the more existing friends they already have. Stated another way, the odds of forming new friendships are inversely proportional to the number of existing friendships. Friendship is limited to 4 to reflect that point. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: It'd be great if there were two tiers of friendship. First tier friendships might break/fade if the slaves don't see each other for a period of time, but second tier friendships are forever. First tier friendships would form relatively easily, but second tier friendships would be more rare, like "In Love" status for relationships with the player. Selling a second tier friend might trigger some kind of breakdown in the friends. Maybe just call these "friends" and "best friends"—English has frustratingly poor vocabulary for expressing this compared to other languages. The diminishing returns on new friendships would allow for a much greater number of tier one "friends" than of tier two "best friends"—maybe three or so would be the asymptotic limit for the latter. This is reflected by the check on new friendships when changing cell. Also once slaves become friend their relationship increases and the bond will be stronger against newer friendship check to avoid going back and forth between friends. 8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: It might be interesting to have dialogue options along the lines of, "I don't want you spending time with [Slave] anymore," which would either end the friendship or trigger some kind of emotional crisis. Along the same lines, you could have dialogue to try to facilitate the formation of friendships between particular slaves. Maybe something like, "Why don't you and [Slave] get to know each other?" or "Why don't you play with [Slave] for a while?" Bonus points if this leads to some actual animated interaction. These dialogues would likely only be available at 60+ Resignation, and have success chance scale with both Resignation training and mood. They should probably also be limited to slaves both of whom are in the follower state. Slaves with friends who are better trained than they are in a given skill receive a small bonus to their rate of training in that skill. The bonus is a bit larger for best friends. Ideas noted. For later... 1
Antiope_Apollonia Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 5 hours ago, DocClox said: Actually, I believe the PAHE hotkey came first. The spellbook version was coded from scratch. Maybe you can teach @CliftonJD how to make the hotkey work properly, then? O_o 5 hours ago, DocClox said: It's got some other fun stuff. Spells to peg arousal at maximum, user definable tattoo livery applied by spell, summonable restraints, a spell to peg player arousal at zero, fertility enhancers, stuff like that. Yeah, personally, I can't see myself using any of that.
DocClox Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said: Yeah, personally, I can't see myself using any of that. I did write it to scratch a fairly personal itch.
Gukahn Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, kf05 said: I had the same Problem. i found that i can use the "Blood Wine" from Immersive Wenches(even though it´s marked as Alchemy Reagent) and a drink from Mrissi´s Tails of Troubles with DoM, even if my Game Language is not English. Probably this helps somebody, and there might be even other Stuff from Mods that might work in such a case yep.. Anybody played maelstrom? It adds poisend mead or ale to the camp where you start the adventure. Looks like.. Giving it a slave can probably kill them ? So if you ever need a way to get rid of one.. I am not saying you should install it just for that but it's a great mod and the daughters make for nice slaves ?
kf05 Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 8:28 PM, sickboy791 said: "You need to loosen up, have a drink" i guess this won´t work if game language is not english, it says slave x doesnt own any alcaholic beverages I had the same Problem. i found that i can use the "Blood Wine" from Immersive Wenches(even though it´s marked as Alchemy Reagent) and a drink from Mrissi´s Tails of Troubles with DoM, even if my Game Language is not English. Probably this helps somebody, and there might be even other Stuff from Mods that might work in such a case
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