devious skyrim Unforgiving Devices

[ihatemykite]

52 minutes ago, blu3mania said:

Question. Steel Manacles (xx03D2E6) from DDX has a BaseEscapeChance of 0.0, which essentially means all escape options will be disabled except for useless struggle (which won't help anyway), so how could it be removed other than using debug menu?

With key or lockpick. Options will only show up if player have key/lockpicks and free hands.

EDIT: Nwm, I see what you mean. I will have to update how heavybondage items are patched so this doesn't happen.

Edited August 20, 2021 by ihatemykite

[ihatemykite]

2 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

Rope collar, blindfold and gag are not being registered properly by the mod.

What do you mean? Like they are not in MCM debug menu?

[BreadDain]

18 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

What do you mean? Like they are not in MCM debug menu?

Yes they are not there and can't be struggled from. Rope starting set, binder and harness are on place, collar gag and blinds aren't.

[BreadDain]

The other issue would be with Abadon key, it requires Human flesh, which is ultra rare without mods or specific quests.
Plug electrocution heals instead of draining resources.

Edited August 20, 2021 by BreadDain

[ihatemykite]

21 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

Yes they are not there and can't be struggled from. Rope starting set, binder and harness are on place, collar gag and blinds aren't.

From abadon quest?

[BreadDain]

11 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

From abadon quest?

Yes

[blu3mania]

1 hour ago, ihatemykite said:

With key or lockpick. Options will only show up if player have key/lockpicks and free hands.

I had them but that didn't help, so I decided to dig into the script. The condition is pretty much determined by getLockAccesChance(), which relies on UD_LockAccessDifficulty, and the value of that property is 100 which is why the options were disabled. Upon further examination, patchHeavyBondage assumes that only devices with zad_DeviousCuffsFront/zad_DeviousYoke/zad_DeviousYokeBB/zad_DeviousElbowTie/zad_DeviousPetSuit need the help to lower UD_LockAccessDifficulty, which is not the case for this device. This device actually has a keyword of zad_DeviousArmbinder, which is why it can't be unlocked or picked. Though, in this case in theory it should allow to be cut, which is also not the case! So I had to dig deeper, and found out that the reason is that the inventory device sets CutDeviceEscapeChance to 0.0.

 

I guess this is really a weird device with all these combinations, but I'd suggest that in patchFinish or checkInventoryScript you do a check to make sure the device won't end up having UD_LockAccessDifficulty set to 100, UD_durability_damage_base set to 0.0, and UD_CutChance set to 0.0 at the same time, which basically means the device cannot be removed normally.

Edited August 20, 2021 by blu3mania

[monsta88]

2 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Hotkey only works when player is have tied hands. Also i tried the Hard start and didn't see any issue.

 

Ok, but the device I mentioned was for hand. Also, none of the DDs appeared in the debug menu. And the log showed a lot of issues.

 

In my current game I have some strange things too:

 

According to this menu, the character wears 2 sets of plugs the same time and also a CB. I removed the CB, so it should not be on this menu either.

 

I also have a question: if the character does not wear a CB/harness, why can't she simply remove a regular plug? What keeps it in her?

 

Also, I don't like that I can't sleep in my own house while struggle exhausted. Makes no sense to me. Disabling the waiting is the same. If the character is exhausted, wouldn't the resting/sleeping be the logical action?

I understand that it is for balancing, but doing it this way just doesn't make sense. I also understand that if the player can wait/sleep, then the debuff makes no sense. I will think about it.

 

Peace,

M

 

[ihatemykite]

45 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

The other issue would be with Abadon key, it requires Human flesh, which is ultra rare without mods or specific quests.
Plug electrocution heals instead of draining resources.

Ok i will come up with better materials to craft key from. But i cant be too easy so if you have idea, i would like to hear it.

Also, about the electroshocks, that is not my issue but DD issue (i'm just calling ShockActor from framework, maybe i will look in to it and fix it in patch. i'm already planing of doing it also for the DCL buffs)

29 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

Yes

Well then idk. Maybe look in log if there is something usefull. Also i'm yet again working on rework which hopefully fix this issue.

27 minutes ago, blu3mania said:

I had them but that didn't help, so I decided to dig into the script. The condition is pretty much determined by getLockAccesChance(), which relies on UD_LockAccessDifficulty, and the value of that property is 100 which is why the options were disabled. Upon further examination, patchHeavyBondage assumes that only devices with zad_DeviousCuffsFront/zad_DeviousYoke/zad_DeviousYokeBB/zad_DeviousElbowTie/zad_DeviousPetSuit need the help to lower UD_LockAccessDifficulty, which is not the case for this device. This device actually has a keyword of zad_DeviousArmbinder, which is why it can't be unlocked or picked. Though, in this case in theory it should allow to be cut, which is also not the case! So I had to dig deeper, and found out that the reason is that the inventory device sets CutDeviceEscapeChance to 0.0.

 

I guess this is really a weird device with all these combinations, but I'd suggest that in patchFinish or checkInventoryScript you do a check to make sure the device won't end up having UD_LockAccessDifficulty set to 100, UD_durability_damage_base set to 0.0, and UD_CutChance set to 0.0 at the same time, which basically means the device cannot be removed normally.

Oh, i see what you mean. But problem is that if there will be always way for player to espace, then the inescapable devices will be escapable. But after you meantioned the menacles, i looked in to it and fixed by adding this shitty code in function checkInventoryScript in UD_Patcher.psc

	if inventoryScript.BaseEscapeChance == 0.0 && inventoryScript.deviceKey && inventoryScript.LockAccessDifficulty < 100.0
		device.UD_LockAccessDifficulty = Utility.randomFloat(60.0,90.0)
	endif

So every device will be lockpickable if they have key and their LockAccesDifficulty is less then 100. I have made it that armbinder have LockAccessDifficulty 100.0 because i didn't know there was device like menacles?. Logically you can't reach locks on armbinder that have locks close to shoulders. But menacles have them close to hands so it makes sense they are lockpicklabe.

21 minutes ago, monsta88 said:

 

Ok, but the device I mentioned was for hand. Also, none of the DDs appeared in the debug menu. And the log showed a lot of issues.

 

In my current game I have some strange things too:

 

According to this menu, the character wears 2 sets of plugs the same time and also a CB. I removed the CB, so it should not be on this menu either.

 

I also have a question: if the character does not wear a CB/harness, why can't she simply remove a regular plug? What keeps it in her?

 

Also, I don't like that I can't sleep in my own house while struggle exhausted. Makes no sense to me. Disabling the waiting is the same. If the character is exhausted, wouldn't the resting/sleeping be the logical action?

I understand that it is for balancing, but doing it this way just doesn't make sense. I also understand that if the player can wait/sleep, then the debuff makes no sense. I will think about it.

 

Peace,

M

 

I got the same problem some time ago and was working on fix since. I would say that it is fixed (well i didn't get the same issue again and a was testing DCL to the bone with its broken selfbonge MCM option). I have also added bunch of new debug options so if it happens again, you can press the problem which will fix the issue (hopefully).

I guest i could have made the plugs removable when the wearers hands are not tied. Only reason is that i wanted the abadon plug to be hard to remove. But i will thing of a way to makes this work.

I have balanced the exhaustion to be much shorted (~20 s) so it should be too much of issue. I will also add MCM option so everyone can set how long they want the debuff to last.

 

 

I will try to upload new version tomorow, but i still want to add that abadon plug will lock random devices on player (as mentioned by @notwavman).

[monsta88]

6 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

got the same problem some time ago and was working on fix since.

 

Great news. I also think I know how it happened. Most likely this is caused by the Naked Dungeons mod. When you enter a dungeon, a trap might hit and removes everything from you, except the DDs. However I assume it tries to remove that as well, and it causes the problem. I saw similar problem with Devious Heatrise and Pet Project. In PP I often got double quest items because of this.

[BreadDain]

38 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Ok i will come up with better materials to craft key from. But i cant be too easy so if you have idea, i would like to hear it.

Heart of Daedra (basically only Enthir is reliable source of those, although player can snatch one in Jorrvaskr if they are desperate)
Wisp Wrappings
Moon sugar (if player doesn't have one might be fun to get since it's either caravaners or random drug dealer encounter)
Briar Heart
Spriggan Sap

 

45 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Well then idk. Maybe look in log if there is something usefull. Also i'm yet again working on rework which hopefully fix this issue.

Yeah I can probably try tracking this issue. DD MCM 'sees' those devices and can safely remove them, so I probably have some ideas to try.
 

[BreadDain]

1 hour ago, ihatemykite said:

Well then idk. Maybe look in log if there is something usefull. Also i'm yet again working on rework which hopefully fix this issue.

That was totally on me, DD - BRRF placed below UD overrides patched records and breaks everything head-related. Probably worth mentioning in installation instructions so people don't make same mistake when running LOOT.

[monsta88]

Hello Ihatemykite,

 

as I promised, I was thinking about the debuff vs sleeping thing. The issue (for me): It is not logical that when the character has Struggle fatigue debuff, the character can't sleep or wait in her home.

 

I like the debuff though and it makes sense to have a 10 minute(ish) debuff after struggling, it really makes the player think. For example should he/she try to remove the gag in a dungeon and play with a debuff or keep it on, but unable to drink potions? So I'd like to keep the debuff in its current strength and duration.

 

My suggestion for solution: Make the timer real time. So it doesn't matter what the character does, the timer keeps ticking at the same pace. I think DCL and some other mods have timers like this.

 

I'd also rename the Debuff to something like Frustration or Mental Exhaustion debuff.

 

Maybe add some text lines too, similar when you sleep in Chastity Belt. Some (lame) examples: "You tried to rest, but your failed attempts of removing your restraints keep your thoughts restless." or "You are mentally exhausted after removing the [last removed DD name]. You try to rest, but whatever you do, the thoughts come back to your mind." or "You are too horny to rest, you keep thinking about your restraints."

Now these are not easy to write either, as we only know that the player tried to remove a restraint. We don't know however if the player plays the character as sub for example, who enjoys being in bondage. So either write some generic lines, or let the player set the character's disposition towards DDs in the MCM, similar like in Captured Dreams mod. That way there can be multiple versions of the line with explanations why she still has the debuff.

 

Anyway, as a 1st step, I'd just go for the real time timer (and enable sleeping/waiting to advance ingame timer).

 

 

9 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

I guest i could have made the plugs removable when the wearers hands are not tied. Only reason is that i wanted the abadon plug to be hard to remove. But i will thing of a way to makes this work.

 

Some ideas to consider:

It could be that the Sentient plugs are harder to remove as they try to defend themselves. The inflatable plugs inflate themselves. The soulgem ones start buzzing like crazy. The pears open. Etc.

 

Maybe Magic has to be used to some extent to remove a Sentient plug.

 

So the Sentient ones work like now, the others can be removed w/o problem.

 

 

Peace,

M

[monsta88]

A question: Is the Damage Speechcraft / Sleepy debuff from this mod? I can't seem to get rid of it, slept like a day and it is still there.

[S.MayLeR]

27 minutes ago, monsta88 said:

A question: Is the Damage Speechcraft / Sleepy debuff from this mod? I can't seem to get rid of it, slept like a day and it is still there.

Perhaps, it's "Joyful Followers"...

[monsta88]

1 hour ago, S.MayLeR said:

Perhaps, it's "Joyful Followers"...

 

Thank you, it comes from there. I started a new game with several new mods and I am not familiar with their working yet.

 

 

[S.MayLeR]

12 minutes ago, monsta88 said:

 

Thank you, it comes from there. I started a new game with several new mods and I am not familiar with their working yet.

 

 

I also check this modification, and so far it doesn't justify itself, since the "promised" events, upon reaching a certain (disposition?) level, don't start ...

[ihatemykite]

20 hours ago, BreadDain said:

Heart of Daedra (basically only Enthir is reliable source of those, although player can snatch one in Jorrvaskr if they are desperate)
Wisp Wrappings
Moon sugar (if player doesn't have one might be fun to get since it's either caravaners or random drug dealer encounter)
Briar Heart
Spriggan Sap

Ok, will do.

20 hours ago, BreadDain said:

That was totally on me, DD - BRRF placed below UD overrides patched records and breaks everything head-related. Probably worth mentioning in installation instructions so people don't make same mistake when running LOOT.

This is second time i'm hearing about it. I will upload new version and look in to it. Hopefully it will be no much problem.

12 hours ago, monsta88 said:

My suggestion for solution: Make the timer real time. So it doesn't matter what the character does, the timer keeps ticking at the same pace. I think DCL and some other mods have timers like this.

That sounds logical, but there is one problem. I have no idea how to do it in real time? Perhaps i can make counter in script and the buff will dispel itself after some time. But what liked most about how  the debuff is done now is that you can see how much time remains.

12 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Now these are not easy to write either, as we only know that the player tried to remove a restraint. We don't know however if the player plays the character as sub for example, who enjoys being in bondage. So either write some generic lines, or let the player set the character's disposition towards DDs in the MCM, similar like in Captured Dreams mod. That way there can be multiple versions of the line with explanations why she still has the debuff.

I think it would be better if there was different mod for this, and other mods would just use it as optional dependency.

12 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Some ideas to consider:

It could be that the Sentient plugs are harder to remove as they try to defend themselves. The inflatable plugs inflate themselves. The soulgem ones start buzzing like crazy. The pears open. Etc.

 

Maybe Magic has to be used to some extent to remove a Sentient plug.

 

So the Sentient ones work like now, the others can be removed w/o problem.

Will implement.

Edited August 21, 2021 by ihatemykite

[naaitsab]

4 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

That sounds logical, but there is one problem. I have no idea how to do it in real time? Perhaps i can make counter in script and the buff will dispel itself after some time. But what liked most about how  the debuff is done now is that you can see how much time remains.

You can check my mods code for the timer thing on the promotion job quest. Simply said it adds time gained by waiting/sleeping to the timer wait. So you can't cheat it like that. You can still fool it by fast travel as I'm not aware of a reliable function to check for that. Beside disabling fast travel.

 

6 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Will implement.

 

Perhaps also adding some random taunts of the sentient devices? Give them a personality so to speak. Can be done by spawning an invisible actor if you want subtitles or just a debug.notification. If you want to use the actor approach you can again look at my mod, first story quest implements this.

[ihatemykite]

4 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

You can check my mods code for the timer thing on the promotion job quest. Simply said it adds time gained by waiting/sleeping to the timer wait. So you can't cheat it like that. You can still fool it by fast travel as I'm not aware of a reliable function to check for that. Beside disabling fast travel.

Thanks, i will take a look!

4 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

Perhaps also adding some random taunts of the sentient devices? Give them a personality so to speak. Can be done by spawning an invisible actor if you want subtitles or just a debug.notification. If you want to use the actor approach you can again look at my mod, first story quest implements this.

So the dialog will open with invisible actor? i'm concerned that it may be annoying if dialong will open out of never, like when you're in battle. Maybe if i add some checks or make it ultra rare then it would work. I also have no idea which taunts to add. I'm not very good at writting so adding this much text (which is readable) would probably kill me.

[naaitsab]

7 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

So the dialog will open with invisible actor? i'm concerned that it may be annoying if dialong will open out of never, like when you're in battle. Maybe if i add some checks or make it ultra rare then it would work. I also have no idea which taunts to add. I'm not very good at writting so adding this much text (which is readable) would probably kill me.

The quest references a 'talking activator', which in essence is a NPC but in the form of an invisible marker, so no interaction with the game world. It spawns near the player because there is a radius in which the dialogue is "heard".  This then "talks" via lines of dialogue in a quest scene. You can control if and when this scene starts and how often. Checks like 'is in combat'. And for dialogue, it should be short, just 1 or 2 lines. I could write some lines for you if you want to implement this. I'm sure there are more who want to write a few lines. Check my mod quest 0 at the part the "SpawnDummy()" function is called in the scene. It's the Devious Pink one btw.

[ihatemykite]

1 hour ago, naaitsab said:

And for dialogue, it should be short, just 1 or 2 lines. I could write some lines for you if you want to implement this. I'm sure there are more who want to write a few lines.

Please do, that would srsly save my ass

1 hour ago, naaitsab said:

Check my mod quest 0 at the part the "SpawnDummy()" function is called in the scene. It's the Devious Pink one btw.

I will give it a look

[BreadDain]

2 hours ago, naaitsab said:

You can check my mods code for the timer thing on the promotion job quest. Simply said it adds time gained by waiting/sleeping to the timer wait. So you can't cheat it like that. You can still fool it by fast travel as I'm not aware of a reliable function to check for that. Beside disabling fast travel.

I am dum dum to scripting, but wasn't FT just timescale / fFastTravelSpeedMult? Vanilla is 20 / 1, but I am not sure if the latter is applied to timescale or something different.

[BreadDain]

On 8/19/2021 at 11:42 PM, BreadDain said:

As a note: possible future incompatibility or patch necessity for

 

Yep, heavy mod conflict, and not the future but the current one.
 

Spoiler

 

[ihatemykite]

15 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

Yep, heavy mod conflict, and not the future but the current one.
 

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Why does it change the editorID ?