Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[HexBolt8]

36 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

Yes, I think that it might be helpful to folks to explain the connotation of the word "Submissive".

I've added a reminder to myself in my release notes for the next update so that I won't forget.

 

Even with the nonconsensual features, Lola must have a submissive aspect to her nature, even if she doesn't realize it yet, and that's what keeps her obedient.  At the heart of it is the paradox, "I don't like what I'm being made to do, but I like being made to do it."

 

37 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

But I have seen many posts that either expect this mod to be harsher, forced, and non-consensual, or expect this mod to let the player character resist and not submit to the master.  Mods that offered those other kinds of experiences would, of course, be welcome for folks who want that (myself included).

I'd play them too.  I very much like the submissive slave gameplay in this mod (surprise), but I like variety and I'd enjoy a forced slave mod where the challenge is to resist.  It would have to be built that way though, since SLTR's submission score doesn't work for that scenario.  SD+ has some of that, but such a mod would have to really focus on the long term adventuring slave aspect, and offer more tasks and events.

[leopardus]

Hi! i can't leave Riverwood.  "Time to relax" happens every time when i am trying do that .   WTF?

[HexBolt8]

4 minutes ago, leopardus said:

i can't leave Riverwood.  "Time to relax" happens every time when i am trying do that .

If your load is too high, your owner will order you to a town to sell off the extra weight.

[leopardus]

23 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

If your load is too high, your owner will order you to a town to sell off the extra weight.

 Is my load too high?

 

Sorry for english.

Edited August 5, 2021 by leopardus

[just_Gina]

6 hours ago, leopardus said:

Is my load too high?

That depends on your setting. But if you have it set around 20% or more, then no, your load is fine.

[qalavix]

16 hours ago, Herowynne said:

Yes, I think that it might be helpful to folks to explain the connotation of the word "Submissive".

 

When I first discovered this mod, I realized from the title that this mod is primarily intended as a consensual experience.

 

But I have seen many posts that either expect this mod to be harsher, forced, and non-consensual, or expect this mod to let the player character resist and not submit to the master.

I know I personally wouldn't have been surprised at either 'extreme', and @HexBolt8's recent post actually clarified what was going on for me, despite playing with SubmissiveLola on for, uh... a lot of hours.?(at least 250 hours by the game clock on my current savegame, plus part of a previous savegame until it died of CTD-on-save I couldn't fix...)

 

@HexBolt8 said:

Quote

Even with the nonconsensual features, Lola must have a submissive aspect to her nature, even if she doesn't realize it yet, and that's what keeps her obedient.  At the heart of it is the paradox, "I don't like what I'm being made to do, but I like being made to do it."

Not that anyone but me necessarily cares, but a roleplaying concept I imagined, was that being SubmissiveLola was kind of a relaxation thing for a hero (the PC) who has the  literal responsibility for saving the entire world in the vanilla main quest.  Talk about a stressful job!  So you go to Master/Mistress and sweep floors or go fetch a sweetroll or whatever, walk around nekkid, do what you're told with no thinking required, get slapped around lightly, whatever... and in a way it's like a vacation, a relaxing of the crushing mental/moral weight.  The Nine Gods know, it's not like anyone else in Skyrim can do anything without your PC. *eyeroll*  And when it's time to go back to Saving The World (TM), you can suspend this mod and get on with it (if you don't want to deal with M/M's whiny demands for ale or kvetching about your load while you're, y'know, hunting a dragon or eldritch horror).

Edited August 5, 2021 by qalavix
combo post, plus I cannot not edit. It's a compulsion.

[HexBolt8]

10 hours ago, leopardus said:

Is my load too high?

No, it's very low, so that's okay.  Unfortunately, you did not provide much detail of the problem, such as what steps you took to complete the quest, so there's not much that I can say.  You do have to finish the quest by talking to your owner.

[qalavix]

Damnit, bug report.

 

I just came out of some dungeon stuff and re-activated Submissive Lola; she complained I hadn't been something or other and whipped me - no big - but then I got a top-left notification that "You must wear your bell collar" and got zapped for trivial damage and -5 hard-won submission score. 

But I was (and am) wearing that exact collar. 

I tried taking it off and putting it back on, and got zapped again. 

Tried dropping it and AddItemMenu-SE adding another one and putting it on, got zapped AGAIN.

And in the MCM the help topic "I lost my collar" is grayed out?!?! 

Had to suspend SL again.

 

Tell me what else you need from me, @HexBolt8.  This is save #941 at 341h.27m.40s (see I told you it was hundreds of game hours!) because I'll forget in ten minutes...

I'm wishing there was a 'button' in the MCM debug section that would recheck the slot and see if the right collar is actually equipped.  Or just put a fresh one on, I don't care...

 

Is there maybe a float involved as a time-related variable somewhere?  Those... go bad after a while, so to speak.

Edited August 6, 2021 by qalavix

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, qalavix said:

I got a top-left notification that "You must wear your bell collar"

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you at this time, but I do have information and questions.  Thank you for providing a pretty good description of what happened.

 

Handling for wearing required devices is fairly robust, since we really don't the want situation that you seem to be in to ever occur.  The message mentions the device by name to help your remember what slot should be filled, but SLTR doesn't care which collar you wear.  Any DD or ZAP collar is good.  If you manage to switch collars on your own, that's fine as long as it's a DD or ZAP collar.  Since the MCM option for "I lost my collar" is grayed out, the MCM is detecting that you're wearing a DD collar.  That's to be expected.  You're welcome to test this yourself in the console with "player.WornHasKeyword zad_DeviousCollar", but the result should be 1 (true).

 

A few months ago, a player reported being able to cut (and destroy) the required armbinder with a featured added by DCL.  This led to a problem in which the player couldn't reequip the the item because the player had destroyed it.  To handle that sort of thing, I modified the script so that you get punished once for not wearing the required item, then it equips a new one on you if you need it.  Unless you 're deliberately removing the item again (which you're not), you should only get punished once.

 

The dilemma is that you seem to be in an impossible state.  The MCM thinks you're wearing a collar.  The required item script is saying you're not (using an even more generous check than the MCM does), and it will give you a new one if you need it.  Yet you keep getting punished for not wearing a collar.

 

2 hours ago, qalavix said:

Is there maybe a float involved as a time-related variable somewhere?

No.  The required item script checks every 30 seconds.  If the mod is suspended (or if you're in combat or various other things), it doesn't bother checking and just queues up another check in 30 seconds.  The game never has to handle a number larger than 30.  While SLTR is suspended, the checks keep running, they just don't do much other than set up the next check.

 

I tried to break the collar check.  Doing bad things with the console, I managed to have the inventory show two different collars equipped at the same time, but SLTR was okay with that.  I couldn't break it.  If I removed the collar with a a key, I got punished once and I was given a new one, and the mod was satisfied.

 

To be clear, did you have SLTR suspended (using Suspend all events in the MCM), then you toggled the suspend off after you left the dungeon?

 

Did anything happen in the dungeon that stripped or unequipped all your worn items, particularly Devious Devices?  Did anything try to equip a new collar on you?

 

Is SLTR presently requiring that you wear a gag, armbinder/hand-binding, or harness?  If so, when did that start?

 

What version of DD are you using?  4.3 or later is okay, but it shouldn't be older than that.  (I'm using 5.1.)

[Sgt. Jenkins]

HexBolt, I just wanted to commend you for your work on this mod, and for your commitment to the original theme that spawned it. I feel like there are a lot of mods out there that try to branch out and add too many features, or attempt blanket appeal, and they tend to lose their identity in the process. Your mod, however, has a very distinct feel, and as somebody who tries to craft a story with their playthroughs, I really enjoy the psychological aspect of the content: of the PC being forced to come to grips with a side of themselves that maybe they didn't know was there, and their owner using that part of their personality to "shape" them into a submissive slave. 

 

The only downside is that I fear the bulk of other slavery mods are going to feel rather shallow and barebones in comparison. 

 

And so, thank you again for your continuing efforts with this mod. I happen to enjoy it a great deal. 

[qalavix]

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you at this time, [...]

I must say, that wasn't the answer I was hoping for...

 

 

The not-bad news is, I can play with SubLola off, so please don't feel time pressure to fix this.  I do realize (and thank you for) that this is extra unfun-for-most-people debugging, which is one of the more frustrating activities on the planet.

 

 

Okay, loaded up the save I made (I think) shortly after the first zap (and a lot of cursing...)

I unsuspended SubLola.

Waited around a bit, and got zapped.  I'm sorry, the exact messages do not stick in my mind longer than five seconds - for which I'll blame rock'n'roll - but it was for not wearing my Bell Collar.

Checked SubLola's MCM and the Help item, and the 'lost my collar' item is NOT greyed out.

"This isn't what you were doing yesterday you f___," I grumble, and click the item.

Check inventory, and I now have TWO Bell Collars.  At least one is equipped.

Wait a bit, get zapped. (curse some more)

Drop BOTH Bell Collars.  Check Inventory, both gone. Go back to MCM / SubLola / Help and click (again) on 'lost my collar' (which is not greyed out). Check Inventory, show (another) Bell Collar.  Equip it.

Wait a bit, get zapped. (curse a lot, frighten cat)  I've lost around 15 submission points by now.

Quote

"player.WornHasKeyword zad_DeviousCollar", but the result should be 1 (true).

At this point in the test case, it is ZERO.  Well, 0.00 to be precise

 

Wait a bit (and wrote most of this post) and unpause the game, and yep, get zapped again.

 

Take off Bell Collar, close Inventory; open Inventory, equip Bell Collar.

Wait a bit, get zapped for a while, lose fifteen Submission Points and a noticeable amount of Health...

And 'player.wornhaskeyword zad_deviouscollar' still returns zero.

Quote

did you have SLTR suspended (using Suspend all events in the MCM), then you toggled the suspend off after you left the dungeon?

Yes (yes), and yes.

Quote

Did anything happen in the dungeon that stripped or unequipped all your worn items, particularly Devious Devices? 

Yes, damnit, and not consentually either.  It stripped EVERYTHING, including jewelry and even my tail which most mods don't (including SubLola, BTW)  

I may have unsuspended SubLola while not wearing the collar, I don't remember.  Nor, come to 'thinking' about it, do I remember whether the scene put back anything, or whether I had to 'manually' dress myself.

This is one of those situations it would've been advantageous to have been recording myself (and my screen) on video, curse it.

Quote

Did anything try to equip a new collar on you?

I don't THINK so.  I did get a set of Zaz rope cuffs, wrists and ankles, and those persisted in inventory.  But not IIRC a collar.  And I turned off Hidden Items in DD (so I could wear things that use slot 41), so "It Shouldn't Have Anything Hidden."

Quote

Is SLTR presently requiring that you wear a gag, armbinder/hand-binding, or harness? 

No.

Quote

What version of DD are you using?

Skyrim Utility Mod 2.01 reports that Devious Devices is version 5.01, and the "Devious Devices - Equip.esp" from the archive is dated 06-11-2021.  There is no version number within the subdirectory or the archive that I can find. Dates within the ModOrganizer2 subfolders range all over the place; and the files between ModOrganizer2/mods/Devious Devices and the files within DeviousDevices.zip archive don't match.  I don't know if that's normal or not for mods.

Quote

The dilemma is that you seem to be in an impossible state.  The MCM thinks you're wearing a collar.  The required item script is saying you're not (using an even more generous check than the MCM does), and it will give you a new one if you need it.  Yet you keep getting punished for not wearing a collar.

I feel like Cartman singing 'O Holy Night'.?

 

Anyway, I don't fear command-line or console commands, so if I can type anything for either corrective or informative purposes, let me know - as well as anything else you might require. *kowtows*

 

*sighs* She's gonna demand a sweetroll the size of Alduin by the time we get this fixed...

[just_Gina]

i have the same problem with the iron collar. It gets stripped by Drink,Eat,Sleep,Bathe. When i put it back on, it is not recognized by SLtR.

i solved it by using AddItemMenu and equipping the Slave Collar. SLtR recognized it w/o a problem.

Haven't come across a bell collar yet.

[qalavix]

17 minutes ago, just_Gina said:

i have the same problem with the iron collar. It gets stripped by Drink,Eat,Sleep,Bathe. When i put it back on, it is not recognized by SLtR.

i solved it by using AddItemMenu and equipping the Slave Collar. SLtR recognized it w/o a problem.

Haven't come across a bell collar yet.

Thanks for the add'l information, @just_Gina

 

So I tried that - dropping the MCM/SubLola/Help-added collar, and used AddItemMenu to conjure up a fresh one.

And got zapped, for a looooong time.  So, it didn't solve my issue. 

[CaptainJ03]

59 minutes ago, qalavix said:

Dates within the ModOrganizer2 subfolders range all over the place; and the files between ModOrganizer2/mods/Devious Devices and the files within DeviousDevices.zip archive don't match.  I don't know if that's normal or not for mods.

Dunno about MO2, but Vortex complains every time I open it, that "loose files may not get loaded" and if I want to change the timestamp on some files. Mod managers have weird ideas, and all do wyrder thynges without asking.

 

38 minutes ago, just_Gina said:

i have the same problem with the iron collar. It gets stripped by Drink,Eat,Sleep,Bathe. When i put it back on, it is not recognized by SLtR.

i solved it by using AddItemMenu and equipping the Slave Collar. SLtR recognized it w/o a problem.

Uhmm, no mod should just unequip DD items, that's a recipe for things going wrong.

Did you check your inventory for the lock of that DD item? DDs come with two parts, one is the visible ID in the inventory, the other is the invisible lock, typically ID ± 1

You might want to check that by putting all your stuff that aren't quest items in a chest, type player.inv in the console and check for the ID of the collar and of the lock, both should have the 'worn' keyword. Delete that lock, (player.removeitem ID 1) drop the collar in the next abyss, claim a new collar (or let SLtR do that for you) and you should be fine. Leftover locks are the one big problem with DD

 

 

[belegost]

I noticed there is a new option (well, new for me as I only recently updated all the way from 2.0 so it might be old news in general) of triggering piercings when absorbing dragon souls. Does this work globally when turned on, or only after sLola enslavement? I have tried this with different types of piercings and I couldn't get it to work, however my character was not Lola'd when I tested it.

The footnotes for this option state it will only work for certain keyworded items. I looked at DD in xEdit in order to identify what devices might be eligible, found a list of keywords, found the keywords mentioned in the footnote, but when looking specifically through devices I was unable to find a single one with those two specific keywords. I'm sure there's more to it, but I have no knowledge on how these things work to properly identify it.

 

Would it be possible to provide a rough list of what DD5.1 devices are eligible? There are several types of vibrating piercings but going around looking for dragons in late game (when both Alduin and Miraak are already dead and dragons are extremely rare) in order to test every single one is just too much hassle.

Edited August 6, 2021 by belegost

[HexBolt8]

47 minutes ago, just_Gina said:

Haven't come across a bell collar yet.

It's from DD, available in the SLTR collar list, one of the pet style collars.

 

1 hour ago, qalavix said:

I don't fear command-line or console commands, so if I can type anything for either corrective or informative purposes, let me know - as well as anything else you might require.

Unfortunately, the collar check is part of the main quest.  We can't just restart it, except by leaving enslavement (assuming you didn't make it permanent), taking the score reduction, and submitting again to the follower.  (The switch owner feature does not restart the quest.)  Even that's not guaranteed though, because I think the problem is related to DD, very likely from that forced unequip event.  That's very bad.  Mods shouldn't do that.  I've read that it can bork worn devious devices, though I haven't personally experienced that.

 

The good news is that SLTR is being internally consistent.  The MCM lost collar option agrees with the collar enforcement script which agrees with your WornHasKeyword test.  The game doesn't think that you're wearing a collar.  Your character seems to be in a bugged state.

 

Since you're already probably bugged, now could be a good time to update DD, after suspending SLTR and unequipping any devious devices (Zaz ones don't count).  The current version is 5.1, so you're missing some fixes if you have 5.01.  I successfully updated DD mid-game from 4.3 to 5 (while not wearing any devices), and 5.01 to 5.1 is much smaller jump.

 

As CaptainJ03 suggested, you can check your inventory for the hidden part of a devious collar that's not visible.  The DD Device Hider is xx040F0C.  That one's okay; leave it alone.  After you've dropped all devices from your inventory, that player.inv command should expose any items with no name (placing everything in a chest makes this easier).  Check the IDs.  If the starting prefix matches DD Assets, Integration, or Expansion, that's very likely a problem.  Even if it doesn't match, just remove any of those with player.removeitem as a quick test.  If the problem goes away, you've narrowed down the source, then you can find the actual offending item(s) by trial & error.

[HexBolt8]

5 hours ago, Sgt. Jenkins said:

HexBolt, I just wanted to commend you for your work on this mod, and for your commitment to the original theme that spawned it.

Thank you!  At one point I'd gone back to find whatever I could of the original author's writings about the mod and the concepts that drive it, and that's influenced my approach.

 

1 hour ago, belegost said:

...triggering piercings when absorbing dragon souls. Does this work globally when turned on, or only after sLola enslavement?

I hadn't intended it to (I never considered it), but it looks like this effect will work even when not enslaved.  It's worded as if the devices are doing it on their own (it's not the owner doing it to you), so that's okay, a little bonus for an unenslaved Dragonborn.

 

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Would it be possible to provide a rough list of what DD5.1 devices are eligible?

Any device with the Lively or Very Lively keywords, including devious devices from other mods.  Plugs can also have these keywords, so the effect will work even if you're wearing piercings.  (I'll update the info text to remove the word "piercings").  These are the device that I found in DD 5.1.  Both the vaginal and anal versions work, as well as nipple or clitoral piercings.

 

Plug (Black Soulgem)
Plug (Grand Soulgem)
Plug (Greater Soulgem)
Jeweled Piercings (Common Soulgem)
Jeweled Piercings (Shock)

 

The same keywords apply to the owner's vibration trolling (which does require enslavement), so the owner could torment you with just a butt plug.  The piercings that the owner can give you are the lively type that will vibrate.

Edited August 6, 2021 by HexBolt8

[just_Gina]

2 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Uhmm, no mod should just unequip DD items, that's a recipe for things going wrong.

Thanks, i'll give that a try. i really like the look of the iron collar, no way it can be cut off.?

[donttouchmethere]

I just stumbled - during my research for WW2 ambient sounds for Open General - over a thing called ASMR (Autonomous sensory meridian response).

There is pretty crazy stuff on youtube related to ASMR, from cooking sounds, WW medics to yandere (yes, that's a thing, you never stop learning something new with LL).

Here a selection that might be interesting for inspiration for sLola or RP, especially with the rather consensual nature of sLola:

 

Sensual Dominance

Spoiler

 

 

Needy Catgirls everywhere! Hide your Catnip o.o

(sounds already like sLola)

Spoiler

 

 

How I would imagine a follower would lure the PC into a sLola collar:

(slowburn?)

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by donttouchmethere

[belegost]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I hadn't intended it to (I never considered it), but it looks like this effect will work even when not enslaved.

That's actually a good thing.

[HexBolt8]

22 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

(sounds already like sLola)

"When I found you on the streets that day, I just knew you'd be a difficult project"

 

I guess I'll have to spend some time going through this for dialog ideas.  For the betterment of the mod, of course.

[donttouchmethere]

6 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

For the betterment of the mod, of course.

OF COURSE!

Always for the greater good =D

 

6 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

I guess I'll have to spend some time going through this for dialog ideas. 

I hoped you would say that.

I there a way to capture text from audio... you know for those lazy ppl. Need to google that ^^

[HexBolt8]

22 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

I there a way to capture text from audio... you know for those lazy ppl.

Forget that, just go get the script.  Some of them cite the source.  For the author of the kitten one, there's a list of scripts here, ultimately leading to here.  Much faster to read and skim for ideas.

[donttouchmethere]

Just now, HexBolt8 said:

Forget that, just go get the script.  Some of them cite the source.  For the author of the kitten one, there's a list of scripts here, ultimately leading to here.  Much faster to read and skim for ideas.

lol awesome ?

Why do it the easy way if you can make it overly complicated? ?

[HexBolt8]

1 minute ago, donttouchmethere said:

Why do it the easy way if you can make it overly complicated?

I'm a simple-minded person.  It's gotten me far in life.